XxsdgxX.8109 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Unfortunately it will continue to be a busted bunker+kiter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > @"Yannir.4132" said: > > > > > > > > Let's just see what happens before rushing to make huge sweeping gamewide changes to druid. Though I would actually prefer it if CA 1 skill did damage rather than the healing it does now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And to be fair, the signet nerf is needed, there's no reason why rangers should have a souped up version of Endure Pain. Other than that I see no way how these changes affect Soulbeast or Core. The Rugged Growth nerf is in practice Druid only, as the other 2 don't use Healing Power. Refined Toxins and Protective Ward changes are a bit iffy though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A bit iffy? Protective ward is all soulbeasts has against burst, after that they're basically free kill waiting for SoS to end, no other ways to mitigate dmg other than dodge like your butts is on fire > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, if you really want to keep the weakness on Protective Ward, just reduce the duration of the weakness from 6 seconds to 2. This will still prevent a burst but it won't be a long lasting damage debuff on nearby enemies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Compromise. > > > > > > > > > > We start compromising when they nerf thief/mesmer/warrior/engi burst not before I am afraid, they introduced all the passive crap to allow people to keep with the powecreep burst, remove it....and there won't be need for this much passive but at the moment...you need some sort of passive defense to avoid insta death from stealth > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why not at the same time? > > > > > > > > Druid doesn't need Protective Ward to survive... I take Beastmastery over Nature Magic most of the time simply because I think Nature Magic is weaker. Of course, its personal preference, but I generally don't die at all in high plat/legend, whilst holding many 1vXs over the course of a match even without Protective Ward slotted. > > > > > > In PvP and with druid ....shouldn't you try first without druid and see how that works for you? > > > > I don't really run Druid at all in ranked. I've been playing berserker/marauders Soulbeast in ranked every since PoF came out. With that being said, I still play Druid occasionally if my team in an AT needs it. > > > > Also, even when I run Druid while quing, I generally play berserker/marauders and I still don't have trouble surviving. > > You must be using "protect me" which is an alternative and can't be considered passive gameplay , moa stance....ways to reduce insta burst I don't use either of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kin korn karn.9023 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 I think some people won't be happy til it's so easy to kill a Druid that it's completely useless in pvp. Druid DPS is so low, it really doesn't make sense to keep nerfing its sustain without boosting its damage significantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted February 25, 2018 Author Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > I think some people won't be happy til it's so easy to kill a Druid that it's completely useless in pvp. Druid DPS is so low, it really doesn't make sense to keep nerfing its sustain without boosting its damage significantly. > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > I think some people won't be happy til it's so easy to kill a Druid that it's completely useless in pvp. Druid DPS is so low, it really doesn't make sense to keep nerfing its sustain without boosting its damage significantly. The idea is not to have too much sustain plus dmg in the same build, every other build that acted like this before druid ..has been nerfed and for a good reason, we need to add more counterplay to shut down druid sustain , otherwise builds that trade sustain for more dmg become redundant and btw the last thing I want is to see ranger disappear from pvp/wvw, what I want is viable diversity, if druid remains best support/best duellist...there won't be need for other elites as the only way to make them work would be to buff them more than druid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kin korn karn.9023 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > > I think some people won't be happy til it's so easy to kill a Druid that it's completely useless in pvp. Druid DPS is so low, it really doesn't make sense to keep nerfing its sustain without boosting its damage significantly. > > The idea is not to have too much sustain plus dmg in the same build, every other build that acted like this before druid ..has been nerfed and for a good reason, we need to add more counterplay to shut down druid sustain , otherwise builds that trade sustain for more dmg become redundant and btw the last thing I want is to see ranger disappear from pvp/wvw, what I want is viable diversity, if druid remains best support/best duellist...there won't be need for other elites as the only way to make them work would be to buff them more than druid Druid is not now and has never been best support in pvp. Support currently could not even be rated as “good.” Nor is it the best duelist. It takes a very long time for Druid to kill anything with half a brain due to already low dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper Cutter.9376 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"kin korn karn.9023" said: > I think some people won't be happy til it's so easy to kill a Druid that it's completely useless in pvp. ranger.txt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absinthey.5340 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > The idea is not to have too much sustain plus dmg in the same build, every other build that acted like this before druid ..has been nerfed and for a good reason, we need to add more counterplay to shut down druid sustain , otherwise builds that trade sustain for more dmg become redundant and btw the last thing I want is to see ranger disappear from pvp/wvw, what I want is viable diversity, if druid remains best support/best duellist...there won't be need for other elites as the only way to make them work would be to buff them more than druid You can make an argument for Druid having to much sustain, but to much damage is the biggest reach of all time. You have yet to even recommend ANY compromise other than nerf the class into the ground. Meanwhile you continue to suggest that it is the best support (untrue) and the best duelist (strikingly untrue); your lack of understanding the game shows throughout this thread - And unfortunately there are people just like you who will agree. I have to reiterate this so many times... The issue w/ druid is not the class itself, it is a fundamental misunderstanding of the conquest game mode itself. Learn to rotate the RIGHT counter classes into a druid or DONT waste your time on the node if you KNOW you cannot counter one. And yes, there are several counters to Druid. tl/dr: L2P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vague Memory.2817 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 I would like Druid's ridiculous stealth frequency nerfed. How the hell is a druid entering stealth every 5 secs. Combine that with silly levels of tank abilities and healing, obscene mobility, while their pets are hitting for damage equal to another player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absinthey.5340 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Vague Memory.2817" said: > I would like Druid's ridiculous stealth frequency nerfed. How the hell is a druid entering stealth every 5 secs. Combine that with silly levels of tank abilities and healing, obscene mobility, while their pets are hitting for damage equal to another player. Druid enters stealth with a smokescale's smoke cloud via smokefield leaps or blasts. This is a 20 second CD. Celestial Avatar, when traited gives you stealth for 3 seconds. Celestial Avatar is on a 15 second CD. Every five seconds? Nope... You're wrong. This is of course besides the point. Multiple classes in the game have access to more stealth than druid, yet you wont be complaining about them. And to top it all off, you should understand this, and I'm certain that you do... You can't capture a point in conquest while stealthed. Silly levels of tank abilities? Why would these druids ever use this "stealth every 5 secs" if they had such "silly" levels of tank abilities? Druids have never been tanks per se, just simply excellent at sustaining. So, you're wrong again. Obscene Mobility lol? Staff 3, Sword 2 and exiting CA superspeed (if traited). Multiple other classes have the same amount of mobility or more. Seems fairly balanced to me. Pets hitting for damage equal to another player? lol, try dodging these pet "bursts". Smokescale is an easy read, as is every other unreliable ranger pet. tl/dr: Another L2P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kin korn karn.9023 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Vague Memory.2817" said: > I would like Druid's ridiculous stealth frequency nerfed. How the hell is a druid entering stealth every 5 secs. Combine that with silly levels of tank abilities and healing, obscene mobility, while their pets are hitting for damage equal to another player. Thank you for your comment, as it really highlights how little QQers actually understand about how Druid is played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vague Memory.2817 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Absinthey.5340" said: > > @"Vague Memory.2817" said: > > I would like Druid's ridiculous stealth frequency nerfed. How the hell is a druid entering stealth every 5 secs. Combine that with silly levels of tank abilities and healing, obscene mobility, while their pets are hitting for damage equal to another player. > > Druid enters stealth with a smokescale's smoke cloud via smokefield leaps or blasts. This is a 20 second CD. Celestial Avatar, when traited gives you stealth for 3 seconds. Celestial Avatar is on a 15 second CD. Every five seconds? Nope... You're wrong. This is of course besides the point. Multiple classes in the game have access to more stealth than druid, yet you wont be complaining about them. And to top it all off, you should understand this, and I'm certain that you do... You can't capture a point in conquest while stealthed. > > Silly levels of tank abilities? Why would these druids ever use this "stealth every 5 secs" if they had such "silly" levels of tank abilities? Druids have never been tanks per se, just simply excellent at sustaining. So, you're wrong again. > > Obscene Mobility lol? Staff 3, Sword 2 and exiting CA superspeed (if traited). Multiple other classes have the same amount of mobility or more. Seems fairly balanced to me. > > Pets hitting for damage equal to another player? lol, try dodging these pet "bursts". Smokescale is an easy read, as is every other unreliable ranger pet. > > tl/dr: Another L2P > > > > > > Well you must be new to druid because I've fought druids who are able to dip in and out of stealth almost as often as a thief. Anyone who PvPs in ranked knows this. As well as my other points they are true too. No doubt what inspired this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emapudapus.1307 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 If they want to lower the passives they must reduce the dmg of pet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kin korn karn.9023 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Vague Memory.2817" said: > > @"Absinthey.5340" said: > > > @"Vague Memory.2817" said: > > > I would like Druid's ridiculous stealth frequency nerfed. How the hell is a druid entering stealth every 5 secs. Combine that with silly levels of tank abilities and healing, obscene mobility, while their pets are hitting for damage equal to another player. > > > > Druid enters stealth with a smokescale's smoke cloud via smokefield leaps or blasts. This is a 20 second CD. Celestial Avatar, when traited gives you stealth for 3 seconds. Celestial Avatar is on a 15 second CD. Every five seconds? Nope... You're wrong. This is of course besides the point. Multiple classes in the game have access to more stealth than druid, yet you wont be complaining about them. And to top it all off, you should understand this, and I'm certain that you do... You can't capture a point in conquest while stealthed. > > > > Silly levels of tank abilities? Why would these druids ever use this "stealth every 5 secs" if they had such "silly" levels of tank abilities? Druids have never been tanks per se, just simply excellent at sustaining. So, you're wrong again. > > > > Obscene Mobility lol? Staff 3, Sword 2 and exiting CA superspeed (if traited). Multiple other classes have the same amount of mobility or more. Seems fairly balanced to me. > > > > Pets hitting for damage equal to another player? lol, try dodging these pet "bursts". Smokescale is an easy read, as is every other unreliable ranger pet. > > > > tl/dr: Another L2P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well you must be new to druid because I've fought druids who are able to dip in and out of stealth almost as often as a thief. Anyone who PvPs in ranked knows this. As well as my other points they are true too. No doubt what inspired this thread. Druid can chain stealth for a bit if everything is off CD, but the options are pretty limited and nothing like “on demand” stealth d/p thief can achieve. Not to mention you have to give up healing from blasting smoke fields instead of water fields, and most importantly you have to give up ticks on the node. The only situation where Druid needs or even wants to stealth often is when he’s holding up 2+ enemies by himself, in which case it’s not that his build is OP, but rather he’s taking advantage of really stupid enemies. Basically if you see a Druid stealthing a lot, you’re probably just being outplayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LughLongArm.5460 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 The Solution is easy and was suggested many times in the last 2-3 ears, since HOT release. 1) druid clarity - should not break stun, keep condi removel as is. - CA should stay on 10-15 sec CD. 2)Celestial Shadow - remove super speed, keep stealth as it is. 3)Ancient seeds- Make it proc from stun /daze only(not from other forms of CC)and use the druid's stun/daze as the only source. - Change CD back to 10-15 sec and make it per target. The suggested changes with the WS/NM nerfs(which I agree with most, not sure about the might stacking change) will have big impact on druid survivability without damaging it's supportive potential, will also open some build diversity with Primal Echoes due to Ancient seed suggested change. That's the issues you can solve with "number changes only". If we dwell also to the "re-work" department - we can talk about glyphs/traits/staff 2&4 skills etc... Which is a must if you want a real build diversity for druids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurrado.2346 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Vague Memory.2817" said: > > @"Absinthey.5340" said: > > > @"Vague Memory.2817" said: > > > I would like Druid's ridiculous stealth frequency nerfed. How the hell is a druid entering stealth every 5 secs. Combine that with silly levels of tank abilities and healing, obscene mobility, while their pets are hitting for damage equal to another player. > > > > Druid enters stealth with a smokescale's smoke cloud via smokefield leaps or blasts. This is a 20 second CD. Celestial Avatar, when traited gives you stealth for 3 seconds. Celestial Avatar is on a 15 second CD. Every five seconds? Nope... You're wrong. This is of course besides the point. Multiple classes in the game have access to more stealth than druid, yet you wont be complaining about them. And to top it all off, you should understand this, and I'm certain that you do... You can't capture a point in conquest while stealthed. > > > > Silly levels of tank abilities? Why would these druids ever use this "stealth every 5 secs" if they had such "silly" levels of tank abilities? Druids have never been tanks per se, just simply excellent at sustaining. So, you're wrong again. > > > > Obscene Mobility lol? Staff 3, Sword 2 and exiting CA superspeed (if traited). Multiple other classes have the same amount of mobility or more. Seems fairly balanced to me. > > > > Pets hitting for damage equal to another player? lol, try dodging these pet "bursts". Smokescale is an easy read, as is every other unreliable ranger pet. > > > > tl/dr: Another L2P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well you must be new to druid because I've fought druids who are able to dip in and out of stealth almost as often as a thief. Anyone who PvPs in ranked knows this. As well as my other points they are true too. No doubt what inspired this thread. Nope, the only other thing I can think of other than jumping in smoke fields or CA's 15 second cd or the longbow skill 3 is if they play with trapper runes.... But any other class with traps can benefit off of those and they are not meta, or even close to op. You must be very new, very low ranked or you just have no clue what you are arguing about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahyos.1437 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Don't get why all the "good" classes are so scared of nerfs. There are a lot of classes not doing well, and bringing down the overtuned would make the game more balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absinthey.5340 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Vague Memory.2817" said: > Well you must be new to druid because I've fought druids who are able to dip in and out of stealth almost as often as a thief. Anyone who PvPs in ranked knows this. As well as my other points they are true too. No doubt what inspired this thread. I'm starting to see the stark reality of these forums. A display of your division badge next to your name here is my recommendation for the next patch; although I admit that it is almost not needed... Most of these people make it too obvious... :anguished: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilyanna.9361 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Vague Memory.2817" said: > I would like Druid's ridiculous stealth frequency nerfed. How the hell is a druid entering stealth every 5 secs. Combine that with silly levels of tank abilities and healing, obscene mobility, while their pets are hitting for damage equal to another player. I stopped taking you seriously as soon as you said pets hitting you for damage equal to another player. Stop lying to the crowd, it doesn't look good. jaracanda power stat is horrible and smokescale is trash tier. Smokescale Power stat- 1690 Jacaranda Power stat- 1890 This is lower than any meta build currently being used. Both have vitality stats that double this amount. So again, stop lying to the people and yourself without facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper Cutter.9376 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Kahyos.1437" said: > Don't get why all the "good" classes are so scared of nerfs. There are a lot of classes not doing well, and bringing down the overtuned would make the game more balanced. I too wonder why people who play a class that gets nerfed all the time would be wary of yet more nerfs (pretend I posted that stupid thinking emoji here) I'm surprised they didn't find an excuse to nerf smokescale _again_, honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahyos.1437 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said: > > @"Kahyos.1437" said: > > Don't get why all the "good" classes are so scared of nerfs. There are a lot of classes not doing well, and bringing down the overtuned would make the game more balanced. > I too wonder why people who play a class that gets nerfed all the time would be wary of yet more nerfs (pretend I posted that stupid thinking emoji here) > > I'm surprised they didn't find an excuse to nerf smokescale _again_, honestly. Compare how easy it is to get results with a druid, mesmer, or warrior to that of a revenant or weaver and you will see they need to be nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardenwolfe.8590 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Truth is most players stack damage while most druids stack defense and/or healing. When those damage-stacked players encounter defense or healing-stacked druids, and the druid just doesn't melt under the onslaught, you get suggestions like those in this thread. It's a sad state, but many players don't think outside themselves. Instead, they'll come here to complain and show they're lack of understanding outside damage. And sadly, it seems ANet always listens to those players when it comes to ranger. Ranger players always expect nerfs with each new patch. Been used to it since beta. And that's pretty telling in and of itself. No ranger can be deemed dangerous. And if anyone doubts that, please note the lack of complaints about Soulbeast. The new elite class is no challenge to most players. Therefore, no complaints. But druid? The responses above alone are proof. Almost all the newest expansion elite classes are considered overpowered. Par for the course with expansions. But not rangers. Druids from the previous expansion are too hard to kill, so nerf them. But it's okay if other classes can one-shot or lock down everyone else. And that's just sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahyos.1437 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > Truth is most players stack damage while most druids stack defense and/or healing. When those damage-stacked players encounter defense or healing-stacked druids, and the druid just doesn't melt under the onslaught, you get suggestions like those in this thread. > > It's a sad state, but many players don't think outside themselves. Instead, they'll come here to complain and show they're lack of understanding outside damage. > > And sadly, it seems ANet always listens to those players when it comes to ranger. > > Ranger players always expect nerfs with each new patch. Been used to it since beta. And that's pretty telling in and of itself. No ranger can be deemed dangerous. And if anyone doubts that, please note the lack of complaints about Soulbeast. > > The new elite class is no challenge to most players. Therefore, no complaints. But druid? The responses above alone are proof. Almost all the newest expansion elite classes are considered overpowered. Par for the course with expansions. But not rangers. Druids from the previous expansion are too hard to kill, so nerf them. But it's okay if other classes can one-shot or lock down everyone else. > > And that's just sad. I think soulbeast is actually a pretty good class, with good damage and good survivability. And what its ok for other classes to one shot people? Don't you see all the mesmer outcry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardenwolfe.8590 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 I didn't say that. I said look at the number of complaints compared to Soulbeast, and how that was telling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahyos.1437 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > I didn't say that. I said look at the number of complaints compared to Soulbeast, and how that was telling. I see your point, but you also don't complain or hear complaints about a revenant or a s/d weaver (in sPvP). We can accept that the meta classes are ahead of these classes and needs to be tuned. I think what everyone here is worried about is getting dropped to revenant level while others remain on top. The best scenario would be is to have everyone at/near revenant level and there would be far less complaints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardenwolfe.8590 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Sadly, that's not how the nerf cycle works. What actually happens is someone is _always_ the most powerful after someone else gets the bat. And then the complaints and demands for nerfs go there. Remember, at one point, ranger was considered the least threatening and powerful. And after others got nerfed? Here we are. I really wish players would learn from their MMO experiences. Nerfing does not create balance. It creates this endless cycle of weakening the overall game. And eventually? Your class is up next for the nerf bat. Careful what you wish for because it may happen to you too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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