Pet swap for beastmode

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

> @"Krispera.5087" said:

> When you think about it, Beastmode is not that different from Ele attunements, Rev stances and at some extend HoloMode/Engi kits. They can freely swap between those, without being slapped with 2 kind of cooldowns and it doesn't make them more OP. Rev can change from Shiro (Offensive) to Jalis (Defensive) easily and it doesn't make them OP either.

>

> Right now the status quo is not good. PvE instancers are only camping BMode and PvPers are the only one that swap around. In PvP, you will rarely see people use a Stout (I played with Blue Moa and Black Bear often), Versatile or a Deadly pet, because they are mostly useless outside of BMode. Either way, Pet Swap or not, they have a lot of work to do. They have to make pets interesting outside of BMode and also have traits that will support merging/unmerging playstyle (If that's what they are trying to push with SBeast) and so far only Fresh Reinforcement does that.

>

> To come back on Ele/Rev, they have plenty of traits that support the attunement swap and stance swap, Soulbeast has 1.

 

Even you want is not the same. Why ? Just because atm without swap in beastmode we can beat an Ele or Rev ... they can swap between stances (Ele and Rev) but their internal and external mechanic of skills/traits are done in that way that it is a balance. That's why I said if we get swap pet in beastmode without any other change ... then we will be more powerful than we are atm.

[ReaverKane.7598]

Pet swapping is part of the strategy for ranger, current system really is clunky. But hey at least beast-mode doesn't perma-stow your pets all the time any more, right?

[Krispera.5087]

> @"Dragonzhunter.8506" said:

> Even you want is not the same. Why ? Just because atm without swap in beastmode we can beat an Ele or Rev ... they can swap between stances (Ele and Rev) but their internal and external mechanic of skills/traits are done in that way that it is a balance. That's why I said if we get swap pet in beastmode without any other change ... then we will be more powerful than we are atm.

 

I'm not saying is a 100% direct comparison, I'm just saying there are classes out there with SWAP and it doesn't make them OP. I'm pretty sure they can beat Ranger too. Our main mechanic is Pet/Pet Swap.

 

20 secs general cooldown on BMode/Pet Swap it would be the perfect spot to me. Same Archetype skills will share cooldown. Yes, I understand things like Charge (Gazelle) -> Kick -> WI -> Swap Smoke -> KD -> Smoke Assault would be definetly OP and would be nerfed.

 

TBH, I'm fine with Soulbeast and how it works right now, but I don't see them promoting a merge/unmerge play style either.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

> @"Krispera.5087" said:

> I'm not saying is a 100% direct comparison, I'm just saying there are classes out there with SWAP and it doesn't make them OP. I'm pretty sure they can beat Ranger too. Our main mechanic is Pet/Pet Swap.

>

Yes, they are not OP because they are meant to swap from the beginning. We are equal (in my opinion better then them) with them with actual status/mechanic.

 

> 20 secs general cooldown on BMode/Pet Swap it would be the perfect spot to me.

Then why do you want this swap? The only difference will be that you shouldn't stay out of beastmode for 10 sec ... but in the same time with swap pet with 20 sec CD means you want to stay only in beastmode form. Let's say we are agree with 20s CD ... but what should happen when we go out from beastmode? Should we get some or how CD for entering again in Beastmode, or change the pet etc ... these are another things we should explain how we wish to be.

 

>Same Archetype skills will share cooldown. Yes, I understand things like Charge (Gazelle) -> Kick -> WI -> Swap Smoke -> KD -> Smoke Assault would be definetly OP and would be nerfed.

Do you want or are you ok with sharing CD for F1 and F2 ? Remember I asked if F3 should be shareable even for different archetype pets, so you cannot go from Wordly Impact (6k damage or more depend of your gear) to Spiritual Reprieve (4.2 Heal+ 4 sec Resistance) in just 1 sec.

> TBH, I'm fine with Soulbeast and how it works right now, but I don't see them promoting a merge/unmerge play style either.

What can I say ? :) I am agree with you on this one.

 

[Kilrik.6320]

Is there any other class that has a secondary cooldown on F skills? I can't think of any. So how is it over-powered if we only have one cooldown that of petswap? Even if traited, petswap is a longer cooldown than any other profession's F swap mechanics. I am favorable to the idea of petswap in beastmode, but I play engineer and have mentioned that I would be happy as well if they just made beastmode toggle like engineer's kits with petswap acting as the universal gating of beastmode F skills. Although it does add for extra button pressing, it is still no where near that of playing elementalist, and it would definitely increase the fluidity of play. The beastmode entry traits would need a cooldown which could be left at 10 seconds.

 

The beastmode F skills have their own cooldowns, ie. spiritual reprieve is 40 seconds. That is essentially 2 swaps away even traited. The F3's are on global cooldown as well, so it's not like you can do 2 worldly impacts in a row. Others have cited the kiting aspects of F1-F2, but that would only essentially work at the front end of a fight even if we had swap in beastmode. Hypothetically, what are the chances during a brawl that you would swap into a pet while in beastmode and sit staring at those skills through the entirety of a petswap cooldown, just so you have the chance to chain them together with the next pet's F1/F2 when petswap procs? On the flip side (offensively), what are the chances that your opponent doesn't use any defensive measure if you exhaust all of your abilities at the beginning of a fight? For instance, one the of the proposed PvP changes for ranger is making Signet of Stone to activate for 3 seconds on a 40 second cooldown. It's like they are already building in the measure needed to counter this so-called OPness.

[Wondrouswall.7169]

> @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> A way to prevent perma camping or rather punish it is to give unsplit-resplit traits better effects and give players rewards for playing active.

> An example could be: You and your pet get the stat bonus depending on the archetype of your pet when unsplit. Duration is 10s. So when you permanently split and unsplit you do the most dmg, but as a pay off it needs more engagement.

 

Man, I remember seeing @"AnariiUK.7409"'s Soulbeast beta impressions vid and he suggested a trait similar to this, but the bonuses linger for 10s only for the player when exiting Beastmode. I wanted that suggestion to be taken badly since PvE Soulbeast is boring as heck.

 

Wish Oppressive Supremacy would swap places with Twice as Vicious and TaV was made into this suggestion.

 

 

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > @"Dragonzhunter.8506" said:

> > > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > > Because it is already balanced with the CD of Petswap. The CD in Beastmode should be the same, it should be basically be the same skill. If its on CD when entering it still would be on CD when finally merged and you have to wait until CD is off to swap again.

> > > Everything else can be balanced with ICDs so you cannot spam trait effects.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Can you explain what and how should work that CD in Beastmode ?

> > From me is a big No, because even now with the new OWL buff I stay a lot in Beastmode (due to the speed and leap). With the swap in Beastmode, 90 % of Soulbeast players will not go out from Beastmode.

> > I'll give you another example:

> > 1. You are in Beastmode with Gazelle. You fight with someone , then you realize that another 1 - 2 enemy come to help your opponent. You will use F2, then change instant into Owl , F1+F2 and this is it ... you will be faster than a Mesmer or Thief. Now, with Owl and Sword I can troll 2-4 players for minutes, just run around them, and most of the time I escaped when I want to runaway ... with this extra 1200 charge of Gazelle everyone will say Soulbeast is too OP because of his disengage abilities.

> > 2. You are in beastmode with Smokescale ... to a lot of damage to your opponent. At some point both of you with low HP (let's say both are on almost the same lvl of skill), you change instant from Smokescale (your main damage mode) to Jacaranda ... 2.5k+4.3 k and you are almost full HP. That's why is not good to have possibility to swap pets in Beastmode. Yes ppl said something about CD in Beastmode too .... I still waiting someone to explain how they want to work it, but even so ... at some point you still can change from Damage to Defense/healing in a sec when you are in a bad situation. Almost you want Soulbeast to have the ability and possibility like Druid has it right now ... with those 15 sec of cd. Or most of you are agree that Druid must be nerfed, or at least his healing mode from CA.

>

> There is an easy answer to this.

> Higher CD for engagement skills.

> As you said multiple ones would be available so higher CD wouldnt be much of an issue to keep the current mobility or slightly higher.

> The swap trait components should be enough pay off for this IMO. And the higher accesability of other beastskills too.

> I mean we can disengage with swoop (GS) and swoop (bird) without being OP and this covers over 2000 units of ground already and evades attacks. Maybe there is not even the need of changing the CD, depends how it plays out because many things on "being OP" is not about being strong but because it brings a ton of utility and aurvivability. These aspects has to be looked at for sure but if they can keep the overall potency of soulbeast even if they have to tune stuff down i am all for petswap. It would just feel more fluent.

>

 

I don't want increased cooldowns on our abilities. I don't know why anyone would want that.

 

The fact of the matter is, Soulbeast and Beastmode work perfectly fine currently. I am able to play it successfully in Plat 3 or higher without issue. We have traits based around entering and exiting Beastmode because that's how its meant to be played. There's a reason none of our current traits reinforce the concept of remaining in Beastmode indefinitely/for an extended period of time.

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > > @"Dragonzhunter.8506" said:

> > > > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > > > Because it is already balanced with the CD of Petswap. The CD in Beastmode should be the same, it should be basically be the same skill. If its on CD when entering it still would be on CD when finally merged and you have to wait until CD is off to swap again.

> > > > Everything else can be balanced with ICDs so you cannot spam trait effects.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Can you explain what and how should work that CD in Beastmode ?

> > > From me is a big No, because even now with the new OWL buff I stay a lot in Beastmode (due to the speed and leap). With the swap in Beastmode, 90 % of Soulbeast players will not go out from Beastmode.

> > > I'll give you another example:

> > > 1. You are in Beastmode with Gazelle. You fight with someone , then you realize that another 1 - 2 enemy come to help your opponent. You will use F2, then change instant into Owl , F1+F2 and this is it ... you will be faster than a Mesmer or Thief. Now, with Owl and Sword I can troll 2-4 players for minutes, just run around them, and most of the time I escaped when I want to runaway ... with this extra 1200 charge of Gazelle everyone will say Soulbeast is too OP because of his disengage abilities.

> > > 2. You are in beastmode with Smokescale ... to a lot of damage to your opponent. At some point both of you with low HP (let's say both are on almost the same lvl of skill), you change instant from Smokescale (your main damage mode) to Jacaranda ... 2.5k+4.3 k and you are almost full HP. That's why is not good to have possibility to swap pets in Beastmode. Yes ppl said something about CD in Beastmode too .... I still waiting someone to explain how they want to work it, but even so ... at some point you still can change from Damage to Defense/healing in a sec when you are in a bad situation. Almost you want Soulbeast to have the ability and possibility like Druid has it right now ... with those 15 sec of cd. Or most of you are agree that Druid must be nerfed, or at least his healing mode from CA.

> >

> > There is an easy answer to this.

> > Higher CD for engagement skills.

> > As you said multiple ones would be available so higher CD wouldnt be much of an issue to keep the current mobility or slightly higher.

> > The swap trait components should be enough pay off for this IMO. And the higher accesability of other beastskills too.

> > I mean we can disengage with swoop (GS) and swoop (bird) without being OP and this covers over 2000 units of ground already and evades attacks. Maybe there is not even the need of changing the CD, depends how it plays out because many things on "being OP" is not about being strong but because it brings a ton of utility and aurvivability. These aspects has to be looked at for sure but if they can keep the overall potency of soulbeast even if they have to tune stuff down i am all for petswap. It would just feel more fluent.

> >

>

> I don't want increased cooldowns on our abilities. I don't know why anyone would want that.

>

> The fact of the matter is, Soulbeast and Beastmode work perfectly fine currently. I am able to play it successfully in Plat 3 or higher without issue. We have traits based around entering and exiting Beastmode because that's how its meant to be played. There's a reason none of our current traits reinforce the concept of remaining in Beastmode indefinitely/for an extended period of time.

 

This is perfectly fine in competitive modes. Problem is: In PvE you do less Dmg when weaving in and out. They need to address this otherwise you are stuck in higher PvE with just one pet. Also you are unable to use the other F3 if you would need it. Like the Stunbreak or the Pull. Both would be perfect backup pets for ztility which arent used in PvE because of the loss of dmg.

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > > > @"Dragonzhunter.8506" said:

> > > > > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > > > > Because it is already balanced with the CD of Petswap. The CD in Beastmode should be the same, it should be basically be the same skill. If its on CD when entering it still would be on CD when finally merged and you have to wait until CD is off to swap again.

> > > > > Everything else can be balanced with ICDs so you cannot spam trait effects.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Can you explain what and how should work that CD in Beastmode ?

> > > > From me is a big No, because even now with the new OWL buff I stay a lot in Beastmode (due to the speed and leap). With the swap in Beastmode, 90 % of Soulbeast players will not go out from Beastmode.

> > > > I'll give you another example:

> > > > 1. You are in Beastmode with Gazelle. You fight with someone , then you realize that another 1 - 2 enemy come to help your opponent. You will use F2, then change instant into Owl , F1+F2 and this is it ... you will be faster than a Mesmer or Thief. Now, with Owl and Sword I can troll 2-4 players for minutes, just run around them, and most of the time I escaped when I want to runaway ... with this extra 1200 charge of Gazelle everyone will say Soulbeast is too OP because of his disengage abilities.

> > > > 2. You are in beastmode with Smokescale ... to a lot of damage to your opponent. At some point both of you with low HP (let's say both are on almost the same lvl of skill), you change instant from Smokescale (your main damage mode) to Jacaranda ... 2.5k+4.3 k and you are almost full HP. That's why is not good to have possibility to swap pets in Beastmode. Yes ppl said something about CD in Beastmode too .... I still waiting someone to explain how they want to work it, but even so ... at some point you still can change from Damage to Defense/healing in a sec when you are in a bad situation. Almost you want Soulbeast to have the ability and possibility like Druid has it right now ... with those 15 sec of cd. Or most of you are agree that Druid must be nerfed, or at least his healing mode from CA.

> > >

> > > There is an easy answer to this.

> > > Higher CD for engagement skills.

> > > As you said multiple ones would be available so higher CD wouldnt be much of an issue to keep the current mobility or slightly higher.

> > > The swap trait components should be enough pay off for this IMO. And the higher accesability of other beastskills too.

> > > I mean we can disengage with swoop (GS) and swoop (bird) without being OP and this covers over 2000 units of ground already and evades attacks. Maybe there is not even the need of changing the CD, depends how it plays out because many things on "being OP" is not about being strong but because it brings a ton of utility and aurvivability. These aspects has to be looked at for sure but if they can keep the overall potency of soulbeast even if they have to tune stuff down i am all for petswap. It would just feel more fluent.

> > >

> >

> > I don't want increased cooldowns on our abilities. I don't know why anyone would want that.

> >

> > The fact of the matter is, Soulbeast and Beastmode work perfectly fine currently. I am able to play it successfully in Plat 3 or higher without issue. We have traits based around entering and exiting Beastmode because that's how its meant to be played. There's a reason none of our current traits reinforce the concept of remaining in Beastmode indefinitely/for an extended period of time.

>

> This is perfectly fine in competitive modes. **Problem is: In PvP you do less Dmg when weaving in and out.** They need to address this otherwise you are stuck in higher PvE with just one pet. Also you are unable to use the other F3 if you would need it. Like the Stunbreak or the Pull. Both would be perfect backup pets for ztility which arent used in PvE because of the loss of dmg.

 

That may be the case, but PvP isn't a dps race.

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

 

> > This is perfectly fine in competitive modes. **Problem is: In PvP you do less Dmg when weaving in and out.** They need to address this otherwise you are stuck in higher PvE with just one pet. Also you are unable to use the other F3 if you would need it. Like the Stunbreak or the Pull. Both would be perfect backup pets for ztility which arent used in PvE because of the loss of dmg.

>

> That may be the case, but PvP isn't a dps race.

 

Sorry m8. Ment PvE in the section you labeled.

[anduriell.6280]

So here we all agree swap in soulbeast mode is good and should be implemented but the problem is some very few think is not supposed to be permanent.

 

Ok, right now soulbeast apply the punishment theory instead positive reinforcement. And that’s why most players don’t like it.

 

Positive reinforcement to use the unmerge/merge:

 

Traits to work in both states: as example unstoppable union to activate when unmerged too. Strong? Don’t think so, soulbeast is supposed to compete with strong melee classes, back lack the amount of blocks, damage, sustain and immunities warrior or guardian have (in any of their specs)

 

Fresh reinforcement? The same: entering beast mode copy the boon from your pet and leaving copy your boons into your pet. Too strong? Again no, and do not overlap the functionality from fortifying bond which i think does nothing when in beast mode.

 

Another trait to cleanse a couple of conditions and small heal when merge/unmerge and replace the passive essence of speed.

 

Another one which give a nice damage boost for short time when merge/unmerge (and replace the passive and boring oppressive superiority)

 

And put 10 secs CD after merging /unmerging and voila... now you have a balance and very interesting soulbeast.

 

But right now is just a build variety limit factor. If a player can’t use an active trait when needed that trait is not going to be used.

[ChartFish.1308]

Food for thought; remove the pet, replace it by always being in beastmode (thus allowing you to swap "pets" while merged)

It's not gonna happen, but just a thought