Pet swap for beastmode

[Einlanzer.1627]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> I personally don't see the need for it. As someone who plays soulbeast in ranked constantly, I've never wanted/needed to swap to another pet while in the beastmode of another one.

 

Yes, and because you've never wanted it, no one else should have it as an option right? The only way I can see not doing this as an option would be if Anet was attempting to balance it in such a way that you were intended to only stay in one pet for beastmode.

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"Einlanzer.1627" said:

> > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > I personally don't see the need for it. As someone who plays soulbeast in ranked constantly, I've never wanted/needed to swap to another pet while in the beastmode of another one.

>

> Yes, and because you've never wanted it, no one else should have it as an option right? The only way I can see not doing this as an option would be if Anet was attempting to balance it in such a way that you were intended to only stay in one pet for beastmode.

 

Alright buddy. It was a _vote_.

 

I said never said that no one else should have it just because I didn't see a reason for it. I don't understand why you took it out of context, nor why you singled my vote out, out of all the other people who said no.

[kappa.2036]

I voted YES.

Here you can see my opinions about Beastmode: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/30086/pvp-wvw-its-been-over-5-months-now-there-are-still-no-meta-builds-for-soulbeast#latest

In this post I wrote not to allow pet swap in beastmode, but to separate beastmode cooldowns on each pet. This will require the same amount of buttons to press as now but with less cooldowns management issues, without touching the "merge to your active pet" concept about soulbeast.

[Kovu.7560]

Personally I feel it should be baseline, I _do_ often need the merged skills attached to a support pet and find myself stuck in the middle of a dps rotation. That said, if there were a _trait_ to grant this feature I'd definitely take it.

 

~ Kovu

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

It's no more difficult or different than weapon swapping. It just makes sense. And it should be added. Edit: Full disclosure, I don't play Soulbeast and never will, but a good suggestion is a good suggestion.

[Kraitan.8476]

Should be a mechanic, not a trait. It feels so bad playing basicly 1 pet, could have been way more interesting it there was more swapping possible

[Beezlebub.1538]

Yes, and maybe have an icon/image show over the head as a tell, similar to what happens when revenant changes legends.

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"Einlanzer.1627" said:

> > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > I personally don't see the need for it. As someone who plays soulbeast in ranked constantly, I've never wanted/needed to swap to another pet while in the beastmode of another one.

>

> Yes, and because you've never wanted it, no one else should have it as an option right? The only way I can see not doing this as an option would be if Anet was attempting to balance it in such a way that you were intended to only stay in one pet for beastmode.

 

They should definetly improve the traits that give you benefits leaving and entering beastmode, so you have higher insentive to do so.

Additionally i think the stat bonusses you get are reason why many ppl, especially these with condi builds stay in Bmode for a long time. If we and the pet could get the bonus after leaving Bmode for a short it would improve our dps to leave Bmode for a short time and it would give insentive to go back into it again.

 

[OGDeadHead.8326]

A simple, regular pet swap. Why the F do you all feel the need to complicate things with a completly different timer for it? Always the same when this discussion comes up. Just allow normal pet swapping and be done with it, geez.

[Eleazar.9478]

Cause that way you can really get some milage out of your pet swap traits

[Prophet.1584]

pet swap in beastmode isn't really necessary, just get rid of the beastmode cooldown we already have a cooldown on pet swap.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

> @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> Because it is already balanced with the CD of Petswap. The CD in Beastmode should be the same, it should be basically be the same skill. If its on CD when entering it still would be on CD when finally merged and you have to wait until CD is off to swap again.

> Everything else can be balanced with ICDs so you cannot spam trait effects.

>

>

 

Can you explain what and how should work that CD in Beastmode ?

From me is a big No, because even now with the new OWL buff I stay a lot in Beastmode (due to the speed and leap). With the swap in Beastmode, 90 % of Soulbeast players will not go out from Beastmode.

I'll give you another example:

1. You are in Beastmode with Gazelle. You fight with someone , then you realize that another 1 - 2 enemy come to help your opponent. You will use F2, then change instant into Owl , F1+F2 and this is it ... you will be faster than a Mesmer or Thief. Now, with Owl and Sword I can troll 2-4 players for minutes, just run around them, and most of the time I escaped when I want to runaway ... with this extra 1200 charge of Gazelle everyone will say Soulbeast is too OP because of his disengage abilities.

2. You are in beastmode with Smokescale ... to a lot of damage to your opponent. At some point both of you with low HP (let's say both are on almost the same lvl of skill), you change instant from Smokescale (your main damage mode) to Jacaranda ... 2.5k+4.3 k and you are almost full HP. That's why is not good to have possibility to swap pets in Beastmode. Yes ppl said something about CD in Beastmode too .... I still waiting someone to explain how they want to work it, but even so ... at some point you still can change from Damage to Defense/healing in a sec when you are in a bad situation. Almost you want Soulbeast to have the ability and possibility like Druid has it right now ... with those 15 sec of cd. Or most of you are agree that Druid must be nerfed, or at least his healing mode from CA.

[Hannelore.8153]

Pet swap for beast mode would save Soulbeast.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

Its not.meant too be perma and cd is very short anyway

[Khenzy.9348]

> @"Hannelore.8153" said:

> Pet swap for beast mode would save Soulbeast.

 

It would for me at least, for sure.

 

It just doesn't feel right without pet swap. It actually breaks the spec flow and makes it downright unplayable for me.

 

Just a reminder, we are not talking about efficiency here, but ease of use, game-play... fun.

[Euthymias.7984]

> @"niconori.7235" said:

> Let beastmode start cooling down when you enter beastmode is a better idea imo.

This seems reasonable.

On the other hand, I'm on the fence. I feel like there's a bit of nuance / a skill floor to having to pick when to fuse and unmerge instead of just camping the merge, and swapping while merged would take that away. That said, I would also like to see some traits reworked to apply when you merge/split, too.

 

**Fresh Reinforcements**, for example, can apply to you and your pet when you combine and split to keep the boon synergy going.

**Predator's Cunning** could be changed to an effect similar to Photon Focusing Lense - so when you enter/exit beastmode, you gain an effect that makes your critical hits grant might (or your pet when splitting) for a few seconds + life siphon or something.

 

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> Its not.meant too be perma and cd is very short anyway

 

Its only perma for PvE atm. For competitive play you use the split way more often to annoy your enemies with your pet and to use its f2.

A way to prevent perma camping or rather punish it is to give unsplit-resplit traits better effects and give players rewards for playing active.

An example could be: You and your pet get the stat bonus depending on the archetype of your pet when unsplit. Duration is 10s. So when you permanently split and unsplit you do the most dmg, but as a pay off it needs more engagement.

 

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"Dragonzhunter.8506" said:

> > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > Because it is already balanced with the CD of Petswap. The CD in Beastmode should be the same, it should be basically be the same skill. If its on CD when entering it still would be on CD when finally merged and you have to wait until CD is off to swap again.

> > Everything else can be balanced with ICDs so you cannot spam trait effects.

> >

> >

>

> Can you explain what and how should work that CD in Beastmode ?

> From me is a big No, because even now with the new OWL buff I stay a lot in Beastmode (due to the speed and leap). With the swap in Beastmode, 90 % of Soulbeast players will not go out from Beastmode.

> I'll give you another example:

> 1. You are in Beastmode with Gazelle. You fight with someone , then you realize that another 1 - 2 enemy come to help your opponent. You will use F2, then change instant into Owl , F1+F2 and this is it ... you will be faster than a Mesmer or Thief. Now, with Owl and Sword I can troll 2-4 players for minutes, just run around them, and most of the time I escaped when I want to runaway ... with this extra 1200 charge of Gazelle everyone will say Soulbeast is too OP because of his disengage abilities.

> 2. You are in beastmode with Smokescale ... to a lot of damage to your opponent. At some point both of you with low HP (let's say both are on almost the same lvl of skill), you change instant from Smokescale (your main damage mode) to Jacaranda ... 2.5k+4.3 k and you are almost full HP. That's why is not good to have possibility to swap pets in Beastmode. Yes ppl said something about CD in Beastmode too .... I still waiting someone to explain how they want to work it, but even so ... at some point you still can change from Damage to Defense/healing in a sec when you are in a bad situation. Almost you want Soulbeast to have the ability and possibility like Druid has it right now ... with those 15 sec of cd. Or most of you are agree that Druid must be nerfed, or at least his healing mode from CA.

 

There is an easy answer to this.

Higher CD for engagement skills.

As you said multiple ones would be available so higher CD wouldnt be much of an issue to keep the current mobility or slightly higher.

The swap trait components should be enough pay off for this IMO. And the higher accesability of other beastskills too.

I mean we can disengage with swoop (GS) and swoop (bird) without being OP and this covers over 2000 units of ground already and evades attacks. Maybe there is not even the need of changing the CD, depends how it plays out because many things on "being OP" is not about being strong but because it brings a ton of utility and aurvivability. These aspects has to be looked at for sure but if they can keep the overall potency of soulbeast even if they have to tune stuff down i am all for petswap. It would just feel more fluent.

 

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

> @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> There is an easy answer to this.

> Higher CD for engagement skills.

> As you said multiple ones would be available so higher CD wouldnt be much of an issue to keep the current mobility or slightly higher.

> The swap trait components should be enough pay off for this IMO. And the higher accesability of other beastskills too.

> I mean we can disengage with swoop (GS) and swoop (bird) without being OP and this covers over 2000 units of ground already and evades attacks. Maybe there is not even the need of changing the CD, depends how it plays out because many things on "being OP" is not about being strong but because it brings a ton of utility and aurvivability. These aspects has to be looked at for sure but if they can keep the overall potency of soulbeast even if they have to tune stuff down i am all for petswap. It would just feel more fluent.

>

 

Still you didn't convince me ... and yet I think if we are allowed to swap pet in beastmode, we will become something like druid in World of Warcraft. Will be no need to have a pet around you ... we will not be anymore the hunter with his pet, but another metamorphic class. In the same time maybe I am wrong and like you said they will find a way to balance the class in that way so Soulbeast don't become OP.

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"Dragonzhunter.8506" said:

> > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > There is an easy answer to this.

> > Higher CD for engagement skills.

> > As you said multiple ones would be available so higher CD wouldnt be much of an issue to keep the current mobility or slightly higher.

> > The swap trait components should be enough pay off for this IMO. And the higher accesability of other beastskills too.

> > I mean we can disengage with swoop (GS) and swoop (bird) without being OP and this covers over 2000 units of ground already and evades attacks. Maybe there is not even the need of changing the CD, depends how it plays out because many things on "being OP" is not about being strong but because it brings a ton of utility and aurvivability. These aspects has to be looked at for sure but if they can keep the overall potency of soulbeast even if they have to tune stuff down i am all for petswap. It would just feel more fluent.

> >

>

> Still you didn't convince me ... and yet I think if we are allowed to swap pet in beastmode, we will become something like druid in World of Warcraft. Will be no need to have a pet around you ... we will not be anymore the hunter with his pet, but another metamorphic class. In the same time maybe I am wrong and like you said they will find a way to balance the class in that way so Soulbeast don't become OP.

 

Depending on the resonance if this forum they might consider it to put it in.

I dont might if tgey tune down certain skills if they improve the flow of the gameplay.

To prevent pet camping they should surely consider to improve certain core mechanics of soulbeast.

First of all they need to improve swap mechanics, like improving traits that have effects on split/merge.

After that they should balance it in such a way that swapping in and out is a better dps option than just banking in it.

I said this many times before but: If we wouldnt lose the stat boosts after we split and can keep it for the 10s CD of beastmode it would improve the split insentive in PvE. Max dps could be achived by simply perma swapping in and out and we would have the flexability to swap the pet we need in any situation.

We will see what the future brings. Maybe Anet can make it possible to be fluent without petswap but it is the most elegant solution thus far.

[bigo.9037]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> A simple poll to see what people think about the idea of adding petswap to beastmode for increased efficiency

 

Lmao. as if that would change anything about soulbeast at all. The ONLY thing I can see working well is the quickness + superspeed you get by swapping pets. thats it.

But then youd just be shooting yourself in the foot with the rotation anyway.

 

A much better rotation ( assuming youre using Rock Gazelle + Smokescale pets as you should ) is to start as rock gazelle.. when your beastmode skills are on cooldown> exit beastmode> swap pet TO smokescale > let smokescale do the dmg burst> use smokefield for stealth > while in stealth swap into beastmode > start new combo.

 

This combo would be much safer to pull off. you keep your pet swap cooldowns in check so youre never gonna end up being stuck outside of beastmode with nothing to use.

 

If you were to swap pets IN beastmode for the beast skills.. what will you do if the pet you just swapped to doesnt have any good non-beastmode skills? youd only be able to swap one way. if you swapped to the rock gazelle you could get yourself into trouble unless youve already immobilized your enemy so you can use the rock gazelle knock up.

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"bigo.9037" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > A simple poll to see what people think about the idea of adding petswap to beastmode for increased efficiency

>

> Lmao. as if that would change anything about soulbeast at all. The ONLY thing I can see working well is the quickness + superspeed you get by swapping pets. thats it.

> But then youd just be shooting yourself in the foot with the rotation anyway.

>

> A much better rotation ( assuming youre using Rock Gazelle + Smokescale pets as you should ) is to start as rock gazelle.. when your beastmode skills are on cooldown> exit beastmode> swap pet TO smokescale > let smokescale do the dmg burst> use smokefield for stealth > while in stealth swap into beastmode > start new combo.

>

> This combo would be much safer to pull off. you keep your pet swap cooldowns in check so youre never gonna end up being stuck outside of beastmode with nothing to use.

>

> If you were to swap pets IN beastmode for the beast skills.. what will you do if the pet you just swapped to doesnt have any good non-beastmode skills? youd only be able to swap one way. if you swapped to the rock gazelle you could get yourself into trouble unless youve already immobilized your enemy so you can use the rock gazelle knock up.

 

This does not invalidate the possible quality of life and improved gameflow. Your argument only regards players who are not aware of what the are doing and a get gud argument which isnt really the point of the whole petswap in beastmode discussion. Additionally this is not only for PvP but also very importantly for PvE because you are stuck atm with only one pet in raids because leaving Bmode is a dps decrease and petswap traits are just empty choices becaus of this.

 

Petswap in Bmode wouldnt even interfere with old rotations, just gives another option when to swap pets and it replaces the necessity to leaf Bmode before swapping if you would desire to do so.

 

[Krispera.5087]

> @"bigo.9037" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > A simple poll to see what people think about the idea of adding petswap to beastmode for increased efficiency

>

> Lmao. as if that would change anything about soulbeast at all. The ONLY thing I can see working well is the quickness + superspeed you get by swapping pets. thats it.

> But then youd just be shooting yourself in the foot with the rotation anyway.

>

> A much better rotation ( assuming youre using Rock Gazelle + Smokescale pets as you should ) is to start as rock gazelle.. when your beastmode skills are on cooldown> exit beastmode> swap pet TO smokescale > let smokescale do the dmg burst> use smokefield for stealth > while in stealth swap into beastmode > start new combo.

 

Making Pet Swap available won't remove the need to Unmerge. It's about giving options and it doesn't remove the rotation you just displayed.

 

What if you needed an Immunity form Stout Pet ? Get off of BMode, wait 10 secs, Merge again ? Yes, I guess people can say ''get ghud'' and think about your fight 10 mins ahead, but there are many situations where Pet Swap can make the fluidity better.

 

There are 2 options, Pet Swap in BMode or no cooldown on BMode (Only Pet Swap cooldown).

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

> @"Krispera.5087" said:

> Making Pet Swap available won't remove the need to Unmerge. It's about giving options and it doesn't remove the rotation you just displayed.

>

> What if you needed an Immunity form Stout Pet ? Get off of BMode, wait 10 secs, Merge again ? Yes, I guess people can say ''get ghud'' and think about your fight 10 mins ahead, but there are many situations where Pet Swap can make the fluidity better.

>

> There are 2 options, Pet Swap in BMode or no cooldown on BMode (Only Pet Swap cooldown).

 

I am not agree with you. Even now with Owl buff , in WvW, I stay most of the time in Beastmode. If they will allow us to swap pet in beastmode I'll stay in Smokescale mode and when I see is getting bad I'll change in a sec in Qwl and I'll run away back ... after my HP and CD are up, I comeback and start again the fight ... I explained before ... the possibility to change from damage mode in defensive mode in just 1 sec (even only one time in a row ... because will be at least 1 time when you could do this without any CD) will be just too powerful.

Now with Owl + Sword/Axe (could be Sword/Dagger or Sword/Warhorn, but I play Sword/Axe) I am like a Druid! I can troll/face 1,2,3,4 players sometimes ... in both sPVP and WvW. Ofc without doing many damage ... but I can stay in this form and run around till CD will be off, change into beastmode and after use those 3 abilities F1,F2,F3 and few skills from weapon I'll change again in Owl for disengage/heal. Now because of actual mechanic we have almost 20 sec CD if you want to change right away from a mode into other ... so if you don't want that my scenario could happen, they should put a 20 sec CD between swap in Beastmode. Do you want this ? I mean you guys when you propose this you must see the whole situations/possibilities.

I know they could do some math and make it somehow possible this pet swap in beastmode ... but I want to see from you a real solution ... with how much CD should be between pet swap in beastmode, what should happen when a pet die ... they should keep the idea if you go in beastmode when you comeback the pet will be alive ? so lets say would be only 10 sec of CD for your pet to be alive? or they should keep those 60 sec if your pet died and you change to the other one, you will be able to use first after 60 sec? You want that F3 would share CD even the pets are different archetype ? etc ... Don't ask or come with simple solution ... swap pet in beastmode with some CD ...

Come with a full solution like you did with skills where you explain in details everything.

[Krispera.5087]

When you think about it, Beastmode is not that different from Ele attunements, Rev stances and at some extend HoloMode/Engi kits. They can freely swap between those, without being slapped with 2 kind of cooldowns and it doesn't make them more OP. Rev can change from Shiro (Offensive) to Jalis (Defensive) easily and it doesn't make them OP either.

 

Right now the status quo is not good. PvE instancers are only camping BMode and PvPers are the only one that swap around. In PvP, you will rarely see people use a Stout (I played with Blue Moa and Black Bear often), Versatile or a Deadly pet, because they are mostly useless outside of BMode. Either way, Pet Swap or not, they have a lot of work to do. They have to make pets interesting outside of BMode and also have traits that will support merging/unmerging playstyle (If that's what they are trying to push with SBeast) and so far only Fresh Reinforcement does that.

 

To come back on Ele/Rev, they have plenty of traits that support the attunement swap and stance swap, Soulbeast has 1.