circuitnerd.5863 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 I've noticed ever since ascended came out people have said it's 5% stronger than exotic. And the wiki states this as well. However if you add up all the stats of exotic gear vs. ascended, ascended is almost exactly 10% higher. Did I do my math wrong or has no one actually added up the stats before? *Note I've also done tests in DPS between exotic vs. ascended and it was 10% difference as well. Exotic Helm: 60, 43, 43 Shoulders: 45, 32, 32 Chest: 134, 96, 96 Gloves: 45, 32, 32 Pants: 90, 64, 64 Boots: 45, 32, 32 Back: 50, 35, 35 Trinkets: 162, 116, 116 Amulet: 140, 99, 99 Rings: 220, 156, 156 Greatsword: 239, 171, 171 Grand Total: 2982 Ascended Helm: 63, 45, 45 Shoulders: 47, 34, 34 Chest: 141, 101, 101 Gloves: 47, 34, 34 Pants: 94, 67, 67 Boots: 47, 34, 34 Back: 63, 40, 40 Trinkets: 220, 148, 148 Amulet: 157, 108, 108 Rings: 252, 170, 170 Greatsword: 251, 179, 179 Grand Total: 3302 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TarkaTarquol.4856 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 The damage is 5% stronger. Not the stat numbers. In Berserker's case, take into account that Precision doesn't really add more damage (especially if you hit the 100% crit cap), Ferocity is only gonna be a couple more percent damage on crits, and attacks all have different Power scalings. For more direct comparison, take the helmet slot: 60 Exotic/63 Ascended = .9523... essentially .95 or 95%. Exotic is 95% the power of Ascended. Flip it around, 63/60 = 1.05, Ascended is 105% the power of Exotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
circuitnerd.5863 Posted February 28, 2018 Author Share Posted February 28, 2018 > @"TarkaTarquol.4856" said: > The damage is 5% stronger. Not the stat numbers. In Berserker's case, take into account that Precision doesn't really add more damage (especially if you hit the 100% crit cap), Ferocity is only gonna be a couple more percent damage on crits, and attacks all have different Power scalings. > > For more direct comparison, take the helmet slot: 60 Exotic/63 Ascended = .9523... essentially .95 or 95%. Exotic is 95% the power of Ascended. Flip it around, 63/60 = 1.05, Ascended is 105% the power of Exotic. How does this explain my 10% difference in damage though? I've been repeatably testing this for hours now. Also, the wiki just says 5% stronger. Even if this is just true for damage, it doesn't apply to the statement on the wiki. Where 10% is the total number of everything being more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pifil.5193 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 The OPs numbers are wrong, according to https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Attribute_combinations the total stats for three attribute exotic equipment is 3087 (bottom of the page), so it's 3087/3303=.934 or 93.4‰ of ascended maybe they forgot to add gemstones to the accessories? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
circuitnerd.5863 Posted February 28, 2018 Author Share Posted February 28, 2018 > @"Pifil.5193" said: > The OPs numbers are wrong, according to https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Attribute_combinations the total stats for three attribute exotic equipment is 3087 (bottom of the page), so it's 3087/3303=.934 or 93.4‰ of ascended maybe they forgot to add gemstones to the accessories? > I wrote down all these numbers from looking at my character's items. The armor was berserker's, the weapon is berserker's, the trinkets are soldier's. The exotic trinkets have crest of the soldier in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TarkaTarquol.4856 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Mind elaborating on your testing? There are many elements you may not have considered that would break your numbers. Also, your numbers are just a bit off, I realize. Mostly in your "Trinket" section. As a note: Trinkets are what Rings, Amulet, and Accessories are collectively called. What you say are "Trinket" are actually Accessories. Anyways, Exotic Trinkets all have an Upgrade slot for a gemstone or jewel. This was not accurately taken into account by you, I believe. In the Accessory slot, you have a total of 162 for the exotics and 220 for Ascended. That's 81 for Exotic and 110 for Ascended. It's actually 100 for Exotic. Ruby Orichalcum Earrings have 75 base Power (assuming Berserker stats) but they also include a Jewel worth another 25 Power, bringing the total for that one Accessory to 100 Power, or Major stat. Comparatively, that's 200 total for Exo and 220 for Ascended, which, granted, is a 10% difference, but this is just between the accessory slot. Taking everything into account, it's +1288 Major, +900 +900 Minors for Triple stat attributes, Exotic (arbitrary total of 3088). Ascended is +1382 Major, +960 +960 Minor (3302). Between the major stats, this is roughly a 7% increase, and minors have a 6.67% increase. Now, these are percentages. The actual numbers, are +94 power, and +60 precision/Ferocity. So that's ~3% more crit chance, 4% more Crit Damage, and only 94 extra power for scaling. I'll wait to see what your reply is to how you tested your theory. > @"circuitnerd.5863" said: > > @"Pifil.5193" said: > > The OPs numbers are wrong, according to https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Attribute_combinations the total stats for three attribute exotic equipment is 3087 (bottom of the page), so it's 3087/3303=.934 or 93.4‰ of ascended maybe they forgot to add gemstones to the accessories? > > > > I wrote down all these numbers from looking at my character's items. The armor was berserker's, the weapon is berserker's, the trinkets are soldier's. The exotic trinkets have crest of the soldier in them. Aaand that would explain the break in numbers. Crests are Rare quality upgrades. You weren't using full Exotic or pure stat sets, for that matter. Were your Ascended quality tests done with the exact same distribution of attributes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faaris.8013 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 I've checked this out in another thread on these forums a few weeks ago https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/368482#Comment_368482 I have only replaced the 6 armor pieces though because players can get ascended trinkets with berserker stats in the first few days after hitting level 80 and because the thread was about crafting. There is very little difference between ascended armor and exotic armor when it comes to the total stats of your character, certainly not 5%. Yes, the difference of single stats on armor pieces is 5%, but 5% more power from armor results only in 0,7% more total power. > @"Faaris.8013" said: > **Fully ascended:** http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQFAWn8MBVmiNOBGOB8PhFaCbLPNc2TzVwN4IULAMhiAA-jhRBAB4pD4hLAAlq/YmSwr2fU+BwDAgUARMGA-e > ![](https://i.imgur.com/K4VJYrB.png "") > > > **Exotic armor:** http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQFAWn8MBVmiNOBGOB8PhFaCTLAMhiAb5phzeauCuBHhA-jhRBwAmVCeT9H86AA8AAecBAuu/o8jUARMGA-e > > ![](https://i.imgur.com/Taw0kMr.png "") > > The differences are so small, if you are not applying to join a hardcore raid guild, nobody should care. > > * 0,7% more power > * 2,6% more armor > * 0,75% more precision => 1,2% more crit chance > * 1,4% more ferocity => 1,2% more critical damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 > @"TarkaTarquol.4856" said: > Mind elaborating on your testing? There are many elements you may not have considered that would break your numbers. > > Also, your numbers are just a bit off, I realize. Mostly in your "Trinket" section. As a note: Trinkets are what Rings, Amulet, and Accessories are collectively called. What you say are "Trinket" are actually Accessories. Anyways, Exotic Trinkets all have an Upgrade slot for a gemstone or jewel. This was not accurately taken into account by you, I believe. In the Accessory slot, you have a total of 162 for the exotics and 220 for Ascended. That's 81 for Exotic and 110 for Ascended. It's actually 100 for Exotic. Ruby Orichalcum Earrings have 75 base Power (assuming Berserker stats) but they also include a Jewel worth another 25 Power, bringing the total for that one Accessory to 100 Power, or Major stat. Comparatively, that's 200 total for Exo and 220 for Ascended, which, granted, is a 10% difference, but this is just between the accessory slot. > > Taking everything into account, it's +1288 Major, +900 +900 Minors for Triple stat attributes, Exotic (arbitrary total of 3088). Ascended is +1382 Major, +960 +960 Minor (3302). Between the major stats, this is roughly a 7% increase, and minors have a 6.67% increase. > > Now, these are percentages. The actual numbers, are +94 power, and +60 precision/Ferocity. So that's ~3% more crit chance, 4% more Crit Damage, and only 94 extra power for scaling. I'll wait to see what your reply is to how you tested your theory. > > > @"circuitnerd.5863" said: > > > @"Pifil.5193" said: > > > The OPs numbers are wrong, according to https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Attribute_combinations the total stats for three attribute exotic equipment is 3087 (bottom of the page), so it's 3087/3303=.934 or 93.4‰ of ascended maybe they forgot to add gemstones to the accessories? > > > > > > > I wrote down all these numbers from looking at my character's items. The armor was berserker's, the weapon is berserker's, the trinkets are soldier's. The exotic trinkets have crest of the soldier in them. > > Aaand that would explain the break in numbers. Crests are Rare quality upgrades. You weren't using full Exotic or pure stat sets, for that matter. Were your Ascended quality tests done with the exact same distribution of attributes? I did some Math on it and the Stats offer ~5% increase. The only thing thats really inflated is the Backpiece and i dont know if i did something wrong or not. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QfYqE7ynyoT0G-liuePSKNQ0o8tehflnYSL9TdOdHyk/edit?usp=sharing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ameepa.6793 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 At least your exotic jewels are wrong, Trinkets have base stats of 75, 53, 53 + gemstone 25, 15, 15 = 100, 68, 68 per trinket = 200, 136, 136 ( you had only 162, 116, 116 on these for some reason) Rings base 90, 64, 64 + gemstone 25, 15, 15 = 115, 79, 79 per ring = 230, 158, 158 Amulet 120, 85, 85 + gemsone 25, 15, 15 = 145, 100, 100 So your calculations are missing at least 99 points from exotics which would make it 3081 vs 3302 Did not check other items. Edit: back item also, base 30, 21, 21 + gemstone 25, 15, 15 = 55, 36, 36, so that's 7 missing points more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 > @"circuitnerd.5863" said: > I wrote down all these numbers from looking at my character's items. The armor was berserker's, the weapon is berserker's, the trinkets are soldier's. The exotic trinkets have crest of the soldier in them. Crest of the Soldier has lesser stats (48) than adding in an exquisite jewel (55). * [Crest](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crest_of_the_Soldier): 20|14|14 (Power|Toughness|Vitality) * [Exquisite Ruby Jewel](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Exquisite_Ruby_Jewel): 25|15|15 (Power|Ferocity|Precision) A more relevant comparison would be using zerker's for everything (which would make the exotic rings, accessories, amulet, and backpack easier to compare to the ascended equivalents). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenrai Senshi.2017 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Is this taking into account runes, sigils, traits and boons and consumables (food, sharpening stones, etc)? Keep in mind that with base gear, you might see a 7% difference in stats (for example). However, add 25 stacks of might, and suddenly the damage stat difference in particular is much less than that (as little as 1%). Add Ferocity and you have a similar effect for the precision stat. The same goes for defensive stats too, because you have a lot of other factors that can increase your toughness, healing and vitality, etc outside of the base stats on gear (such as runes, sigils, passive traits, banners, support skills, boons, etc). To put it bluntly, the difference between exotic and ascended gear becomes much more negligible when you consider other factors into the equation, to the point of being unnoticeable, especially in group content. The main argument for having ascended gear is for agony resistance for fractals, or for other infusions that might be useful in WvW, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mea.5491 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 5% or 10%, why does it matter? Ascended items are extremely easy to get these days, trinkets and weapons are basically free from season3 and specialization collections. It was more of an issue when Ascended stuff were released, it took me forever to get my first set. I don't even do raids and fractals so I don't actually need Ascended stuff anyway, I only got them for the sake of having Ascended gear but it's not actually needed for 90% of the PvE content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menadena.7482 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 It varies per item. At the start of the last season I was wondering if the ascended trinkets (with and without upgrades) were worth it. I found out an ascended trinket without upgrades was better than the equivalent trinket with them. With both upgraded (assuming wvw 5 pts, the -1 pts from general pve infusions did not matter much here for the comparisons) it ranged from 5% for rings to 23% for backpacks. I did not compute breathers but you get the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarshallLaw.9260 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Interesting topic, although it's bold to challenge raw stats which people have looked at for several years. Using build editor and an untraited warrior (heavy armor) without utilities equipped for testing methods. Below is the extract of the numbers generated. Tested stats - BESERKER ![](https://i.imgur.com/ltOHJxi.png "") The top table is a comparison of full exotic armor, weps and trinkets with max jewels embeded against a full ascended set of the same armor, weps and trinkets with no infusions. Since it is not possible to acquire Beserker infusions, it becomes tricky to compare so I have made a further 2 tables below with full _Mighty_ and _Precise_ infusions and highlighted the changes. If we were able to acquire +Ferocity infusions, this might be easier to compare, although getting the power/prec/ferocity ratio the same with infusions as it appears on jewels might not be so easy. In general we can see that 4-5% is about the average improvement in raw stats, how this reflects on actual numbers produced in combat is another discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 This has been discussed numerous times in the past. Here’s one such time: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gudy.3607 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 The 10% total damage increase observed by the OP is in line with the 5% total stat increase and the 5% increase in weapon strength, since 1.05 * 1.05 ~= 1.10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldirtbeard.9834 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 My suggestion is lvl up Weaponsmith/Huntsman/ Artificer what ever makes the weapons you need because the biggest DPS increase will come from Ascended Weapons, other than that farm out your ascended trinkets from either the Laurel Vendor, the Guild Vendor from doing missions with a Guild, or farming the Season 3 maps. The armor pieces are only needed if you're doing t3 or t4 fractals because you'll need the infusion slots for agony resistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now