Is scourge going to take even more nerfs?

[Axl.8924]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

>

> > Perhaps some do mindlessly spam some of their aoes , but taking away more condi or putting more cds on top will just leave scourge in a bad area.

> > I can't imagine people being happy if scourge ends up in the same situation as reaper or worse in spvp.

>

> Mindless spam of aoes... if its mindless that means you should be able to avoid it easily more less it shouldnt even hit you so whats the problem? Maybe its not mindless and you are mindlessly running into the those aoe circles? The whole poin of scourge is area denial / control ideally if you put down a shade its an area that you dont want people to stand in or an area that you want to control. I dont think thats mindless. Whats mindless is trying to fight said scourge in that location.

 

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

>

> > Perhaps some do mindlessly spam some of their aoes , but taking away more condi or putting more cds on top will just leave scourge in a bad area.

> > I can't imagine people being happy if scourge ends up in the same situation as reaper or worse in spvp.

>

> Mindless spam of aoes... if its mindless that means you should be able to avoid it easily more less it shouldnt even hit you so whats the problem? Maybe its not mindless and you are mindlessly running into the those aoe circles? The whole poin of scourge is area denial / control ideally if you put down a shade its an area that you dont want people to stand in or an area that you want to control. I dont think thats mindless. Whats mindless is trying to fight said scourge in that location.

 

people tend to do that when they start anew in pvp. when we try out a new class will try to use same tactics at the start before we really develop tactics.Once we become familiar like i did with reaper after playing for quite some time, we develop more advanced tactics, but what are we going to do if people keep running into it and cry to anet and get us nerfed? I give up.There is nothing we can do here.If people cry about a class and get it nerfed, nothing we can do.

 

Getting through people's heads not to stand in shades or near, is like trying to pull out teeth.They can't wait till they got more to jump us, and want to nerf us.We are going to take more massive hits.Better to just reroll to mesmer or thief, less chance of being nerfed this hard, because its Anets little baby.

 

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

>

> Some newbies like even myself when i try out a new class will try to use same tactics at the start before we really develop tactics.Once we become familiar like i did with reaper after playing for quite some time, we develop more advanced tactics, but what are we going to do if people keep running into it and cry to anet and get us nerfed? I give up.There is nothing we can do here.If people cry about a class and get it nerfed, nothing we can do.

>

If people keep running into it they will just continue to die although at some point anet will realize when and if scourge is nerfed too much. Scourge should be strong but not meta defining strong. I also felt the same way about condi mirage or mesmer in general.

 

Dont get me wrong bugged scourge had no counter and was blowing out too much condi in 1 button push.

Now that counter play as been implemented with the .5 second delay I feel like scourge is close to a ok spot. Its still countered by high mobility and ranged attacks.

 

Keep in mind that anywhere on average from 33 to 50% of necros sudden condi damage on average can come from the players own boons being converted. Because everyone is so drowned in boons now.

 

Maybe they shouldnt be asking for scourge nerfs but boon generation culling.

 

[Axl.8924]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> >

> > Some newbies like even myself when i try out a new class will try to use same tactics at the start before we really develop tactics.Once we become familiar like i did with reaper after playing for quite some time, we develop more advanced tactics, but what are we going to do if people keep running into it and cry to anet and get us nerfed? I give up.There is nothing we can do here.If people cry about a class and get it nerfed, nothing we can do.

> >

> If people keep running into it they will just continue to die although at some point anet will realize when and if scourge is nerfed too much. Scourge should be strong but not meta defining strong. I also felt the same way about condi mirage or mesmer in general.

>

> Dont get me wrong bugged scourge had no counter and was blowing out too much condi in 1 button push.

> Now that counter play as been implemented with the .5 second delay I feel like scourge is close to a ok spot. Its still countered by high mobility and ranged attacks.

>

> Keep in mind that anywhere on average from 33 to 50% of necros sudden condi damage on average can come from the players own boons being converted. Because everyone is so drowned in boons now.

>

> Maybe they shouldnt be asking for scourge nerfs but boon generation culling.

 

Maybe but i'm a little concerned about adding delay in pve.Now that stuff is split i hope that Anet can un nerf necros in pve where all this stuff is not overpowered

[Obtena.7952]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > The design was flawed for PVP/WVW in the first place ... I would have liked to think Anet learned a bit from DH Trapper ... but they took that idea and made it even worse on Scourge ... OK. DH trapper should have been the limit for AOE denial/control and if Anet is smart, that's where Scourge will have to be brought down to as well.

>

> The problem is Scourge, like DH trapper is only OP vs lower tiers. Sadly that's where most people are, and eve sadder, Arena Net balances via popular vote. So we got the tragedy that is Scourge atm. That and because they wanted to fix a mechanical problem with number tweaks.

>

> Like a lot of people said before in this thread, and i've been saying for a long time. Scourge was always one of the best balanced professions for PvP **EVER** period. The only **glaring** issue was lack of interaction with the sand shades, which allowed it to dominate points easily. But this could have been handled with a lot fo fun ways, like crating a temporary no-shade zone on an area after the shades dissipate, to force the Scourge to "manage" the terrain better (like Taliyah in LoL) or make it work like renegade summons or like GW1 Ritualist spirits (as in targetabble and killable, or better yet CC to kill, since CC is one of Necro's weaknesses). Aside from that, Scourge is clearly weak vs power and ranged damage, and clearly strong in melee (because he has PBAOE skills when activating shades) and vs condi, and hurts like a b*tch if you have too many boons. So there was always a clear counter.

>

> Problem is, most people in GW2 PvP don't think about counters, they don't think about switching classes to counter the enemy team. Because that's not ingrained in the match-making process, so people assume that they don't have to think about what's pretty much the largest strategical component in every PvP game: countering your enemy's picks..

> That's why they keep complaining about team comps when the enemy clearly switched classes to improve their odds, instead of doing the same thing.

 

Well, I wouldn't go this far. Scourge? The best balanced for PVP ever period? I'm not sure you understood what I wrote ... DH Trapper was already at the limit of reasonable AOE Area control .... Scourge takes that to 11. Not sure I would qualify that as best balanced for PVP ever period. If people can't even get close to you and be seriously affected by AOE capabilities, that's not balance, that's facerolling. DH trapper was the limit because traps are triggered, so you KNOW there is a limit to the pain you will get if you decide to trigger some. Shades don't work like that at all ... you just accumulate the pain, over a long period as well. I'm not usually one to make ancedotal conclusions, but there IS a reason that there is a disproportional number of SCourges popping up in PVP/WvW ... and it's not because it's the BEST balanced ever period.

 

What I think ... Scourge is going to continue to take on more nerfs, because number of people playing a class in different game modes IS a measure of balance (even if indirect) and if there are any game modes MOST significantly and negatively affected by disproportional class numbers, it's the competitive modes. AOE effects and skills are always going to be the hardest to balance and Anet made a big time mistake to give those AOE effects 'over time' and 'damage' pulsing effects. That's the worst thing they could have done to an AOE skill. Scourge is going to be in for a massive downward nerf ... otherwise WvW is going to pay the price for it. Anet can't afford people to get tired and bored of standing in Shade circles.

[Axl.8924]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > The design was flawed for PVP/WVW in the first place ... I would have liked to think Anet learned a bit from DH Trapper ... but they took that idea and made it even worse on Scourge ... OK. DH trapper should have been the limit for AOE denial/control and if Anet is smart, that's where Scourge will have to be brought down to as well.

> >

> > The problem is Scourge, like DH trapper is only OP vs lower tiers. Sadly that's where most people are, and eve sadder, Arena Net balances via popular vote. So we got the tragedy that is Scourge atm. That and because they wanted to fix a mechanical problem with number tweaks.

> >

> > Like a lot of people said before in this thread, and i've been saying for a long time. Scourge was always one of the best balanced professions for PvP **EVER** period. The only **glaring** issue was lack of interaction with the sand shades, which allowed it to dominate points easily. But this could have been handled with a lot fo fun ways, like crating a temporary no-shade zone on an area after the shades dissipate, to force the Scourge to "manage" the terrain better (like Taliyah in LoL) or make it work like renegade summons or like GW1 Ritualist spirits (as in targetabble and killable, or better yet CC to kill, since CC is one of Necro's weaknesses). Aside from that, Scourge is clearly weak vs power and ranged damage, and clearly strong in melee (because he has PBAOE skills when activating shades) and vs condi, and hurts like a b*tch if you have too many boons. So there was always a clear counter.

> >

> > Problem is, most people in GW2 PvP don't think about counters, they don't think about switching classes to counter the enemy team. Because that's not ingrained in the match-making process, so people assume that they don't have to think about what's pretty much the largest strategical component in every PvP game: countering your enemy's picks..

> > That's why they keep complaining about team comps when the enemy clearly switched classes to improve their odds, instead of doing the same thing.

>

> Well, I wouldn't go this far. Scourge? The best balanced for PVP ever period? I'm not sure you understood what I wrote ... DH Trapper was already at the limit of reasonable AOE Area control .... Scourge takes that to 11. Not sure I would qualify that as best balanced for PVP ever period. If people can't even get close to you and be seriously affected by AOE capabilities, that's not balance, that's facerolling. DH trapper was the limit because traps are triggered, so you KNOW there is a limit to the pain you will get if you decide to trigger some. Shades don't work like that at all ... you just accumulate the pain, over a long period as well. I'm not usually one to make ancedotal conclusions, but there IS a reason that there is a disproportional number of SCourges popping up in PVP/WvW ... and it's not because it's the BEST balanced ever period.

>

> What I think ... Scourge is going to continue to take on more nerfs, because number of people playing a class in different game modes IS a measure of balance (even if indirect) and if there are any game modes MOST significantly and negatively affected by disproportional class numbers, it's the competitive modes. AOE effects and skills are always going to be the hardest to balance and Anet made a big time mistake to give those AOE effects 'over time' and 'damage' pulsing effects. That's the worst thing they could have done to an AOE skill. Scourge is going to be in for a massive downward nerf ... otherwise WvW is going to pay the price for it. Anet can't afford people to get tired and bored of standing in Shade circles.

 

Necros already have a massive weakness, and a delay to their AOES.Anymore nerf is gutting them.You can run around them stun them etc and they need a bodyguard, but continue to cut them till they no longer can fight back.All you will do, is make their newest elite spec into a unwanted trash, and make necromancers angry and quit the game.

 

Balance is a difficult thing, and you need to take more than just the words from people who don't even play necro, like you.From the view of necromancers:This is killing them and making them unfun to play, and it isn't helping them at all.It would be one thing if they were ridiculously overpowered like mesmers that they can take a hit, but their best spec already took multiple hits, and it does less dps support and heal than every other class.

 

Its also important to see the gameplay itself and footage and play and test.I am not 100% convinced the testers are even testing all the complains, and are just auto reacting and nerfing scourge into the ground because a few noobs don't know how to not run into the circle.

 

[Obtena.7952]

That makes sense to you. That's not how it appears to be though. What I say is just generally true about MMO's ... AOE classes are either a) massive OP'ed because devs balance them for low target #'s or b) not because devs realize they scale unreasonably with large target #'s; middle ground there is very sensitive. That's simply the nature of AOE's ... and it's as true in this MMO as any other. What is also true is that OP'ed classes dominating in competitive aspects of the game is not a good thing, for many reasons. That has nothing to do with what classes I do or do not play. That's just how it works. Clearly, from the recent nerfs on Scourge, Anet is more than aware of that as well and you can damn well bet that regardless of all the crying, Scourge is going to be in for another rounds of it if Anet still thinks it's a dominating class in PVP. It also happened with Revenant stacking in PVP , so we KNOW class diversity in PVP/WVW is a real consideration to them as a measure of healthy gameplay. Anet knows how important class diversity is ... don't fool yourself that more nerfs can't happen. I would bet on it. We know the iterative nature of Anet's buffs/nerfs. Anet is not done with Scourge in PVP/WVW.

 

I don't even think the question is IF, it's HOW MANY. Think about the history of this game; stop thinking with your feelings.

[Crinn.7864]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > The design was flawed for PVP/WVW in the first place ... I would have liked to think Anet learned a bit from DH Trapper ... but they took that idea and made it even worse on Scourge ... OK. DH trapper should have been the limit for AOE denial/control and if Anet is smart, that's where Scourge will have to be brought down to as well.

>

> The problem is Scourge, like DH trapper is only OP vs lower tiers.

Then please tell me why every single tournament team without exception brings at least one Scourge.

 

Scourge actually scales extremely well with skill and imho actually performs better at higher tiers.

 

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > The design was flawed for PVP/WVW in the first place ... I would have liked to think Anet learned a bit from DH Trapper ... but they took that idea and made it even worse on Scourge ... OK. DH trapper should have been the limit for AOE denial/control and if Anet is smart, that's where Scourge will have to be brought down to as well.

> >

> > The problem is Scourge, like DH trapper is only OP vs lower tiers.

> Then please tell me why every single tournament team without exception brings at least one Scourge.

 

Because boon spam is out of control and Scourge happens to be the best Necro variant? Winds of Disenchantment alone isn't good enough.

 

Huge difference between "OP" and "necessary."

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> > @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

>

> This is just completely false. Everyone dies from its conditions because conditions ignore armor/sustained defenses which everyone stacks and the scourge counters its own counter of resistance by being able to corrupt it into immobilize which denies blocks, and WoR prevents new boons/resists after a corrupt bomb.

>

> Ele only used to be primary damage/huge damage by bombing the backline with MS's, but we haven't seen that since before Pirate Ship like two years ago.

>

> You are complaining about condi first doing damage through toughness.Second part you complain about boon corrupt so yes you said it.

>

> You are angry because boon corrupt is working vs boon spam and condis are killing people through toughness.There is already a limit of damage you can do with bleeds and burns with the amount of stacks, and necros do less than others in condi, and if toughness hit them they would never kill anyone.Getting rid of boon corrupt would also make necros weak because they couldn't cripple people or strip them of defenses, and necros would be unable to kill anyone.

>

> Necros don't work like thieves who steal boons or strip them and get them for themselves, they corrupt boons and turn them into conditions, hurting boon spammers who are unconciencious about necros or scourges.To me:Working as intended.

 

I wasn't complaining.

 

You said that elementalists are the real damage dealers and that people are complaining about dying to scourge condi spam.

 

The truth is that people aren't dying to elementalists (barely anyone even plays them anymore), and people are dying to scourges because everyone runs massive boons. Scourge counters everything because corruptions + conditions in bulk are countering their own counterplay at the moment, which is exactly what I said about resistance.

 

And you can't run boonless builds. I even said this in my post. Boonless builds just get immediately dumpstered by anything running boons - corrupts or not - because capping boons is literally equal to doubling stats from gear, and it's extremely hard to make a build these days that's even somewhat cohesive that doesn't use boons.

Saying "Yeah, just make yourself half as strong as your opponents and don't protect yourself from mass condition application/damage to begin with" is laughable.

 

I dunno if you're aware, but converting 1 stack of might into weakness is the same as cutting power damage by 75% for 5 seconds, without Expertise. Good luck finding builds with zero might access that deal respectable damage. You can't even do that on thief because you need ToTC for the on-demand fury in order to crit.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> I dunno if you're aware, but converting 1 stack of might into weakness is the same as cutting power damage by 75% for 5 seconds, without Expertise. Good luck finding builds with zero might access that deal respectable damage. You can't even do that on thief because you need ToTC for the on-demand fury in order to crit.

 

No. This is blatant hyperbole.

Assuming 0% crit rate, Weakness is a 25% damage reduction average. With 100% crit rate and 200% crit damage, you get a 37.5% damage reduction average. 250% crit damage and 100% crit rate is a 40% average damage reduction.

 

Never will it ever result in a "75%" cut. Not unless the 1 stack of Might was nearly double the Power stat of the character, which is impossible as everyone has 1k Power at absolute minimum.

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> > @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > I dunno if you're aware, but converting 1 stack of might into weakness is the same as cutting power damage by 75% for 5 seconds, without Expertise. Good luck finding builds with zero might access that deal respectable damage. You can't even do that on thief because you need ToTC for the on-demand fury in order to crit.

>

> No. This is blatant hyperbole.

> Assuming 0% crit rate, Weakness is a 25% damage reduction average. With 100% crit rate and 200% crit damage, you get a 37.5% damage reduction average. 250% crit damage and 100% crit rate is a 40% average damage reduction.

>

> Never will it ever result in a "75%" cut. Not unless the 1 stack of Might was nearly double the Power stat of the character, which is impossible as everyone has 1k Power at absolute minimum.

 

Fair enough as far as pure averages go, though you're at the mercy of a 75% drop in damage which is what I really meant. Which given that the sample of hits in a PvP environment is going to be diverse, can result in wildly swinging values; getting affected by the full penalty of weakness on a critical hit on a major skill will skew that number way further outward. Depending on the build and configuration of where damage is sourced from/how it plays, the numbers will swing all over the place between the 37.5 and 75% number.

 

 

[Axl.8924]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > The design was flawed for PVP/WVW in the first place ... I would have liked to think Anet learned a bit from DH Trapper ... but they took that idea and made it even worse on Scourge ... OK. DH trapper should have been the limit for AOE denial/control and if Anet is smart, that's where Scourge will have to be brought down to as well.

> >

> > The problem is Scourge, like DH trapper is only OP vs lower tiers.

> Then please tell me why every single tournament team without exception brings at least one Scourge.

>

> Scourge actually scales extremely well with skill and imho actually performs better at higher tiers.

>

 

You have less right to complain about scourge or necros since engineers are wanted in every game mode.

 

metabattle:

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Engineer

 

Holosmith is viable in every game mode and core is desired for fractals with condi.

On qt core seems to be viable and so is holo for raids

 

Necros have EXACTLY ONE META BUILD FOR RAIDS:condi scourge, and once scourge gets nerfed into the ground, not even that.

 

Even for other things scourge ouplays the other builds because it simply needs help.Now tell me how bad engineer is again?

 

Deceiver X

I wasn't complaining.

 

You said that elementalists are the real damage dealers and that people are complaining about dying to scourge condi spam.

 

The truth is that people aren't dying to elementalists (barely anyone even plays them anymore), and people are dying to scourges because everyone runs massive boons. Scourge counters everything because corruptions + conditions in bulk are countering their own counterplay at the moment, which is exactly what I said about resistance.

 

And you can't run boonless builds. I even said this in my post. Boonless builds just get immediately dumpstered by anything running boons - corrupts or not - because capping boons is literally equal to doubling stats from gear, and it's extremely hard to make a build these days that's even somewhat cohesive that doesn't use boons.

Saying "Yeah, just make yourself half as strong as your opponents and don't protect yourself from mass condition application/damage to begin with" is laughable.

 

I dunno if you're aware, but converting 1 stack of might into weakness is the same as cutting power damage by 75% for 5 seconds, without Expertise. Good luck finding builds with zero might access that deal respectable damage. You can't even do that on thief because you need ToTC for the on-demand fury in order to crit.

 

Well eles are considered fairly squishy, the issue is not as much eles, as guardians thieves warriors and mesmers and probably holosmiths who can cut down a necro.

 

Nerfing its weakness and not compensating is still a big problem, as it leads to massive gaps of being weak to everything and strong against few things, which isn't a good feeling.Think about how it feels on reaper necros to take stuff like poison cloud, but its still sucks and we die anyways to rangers

 

Thieves get might from attacking, and they can easily range people.They also get speed up from evading on daredevil.If necro didn't have corrupt, they would be unable to kill anything, like thieves.How do we catch a thief off guard? corrupt their speed and watch them die.Also.If resist was invulnerable to boon corrupt, it would make all boon spams op and necros would be useless.Don't gut scourge anymore, why don't you just cut everyone elses boon spams instead? Necros and especially scourges already took enough hits and don't need anymore nerfs.

 

Eles can run boonless as well with tempest, as a lot of that comes from either earth or from overload.

Druids gain might for sure when they hit 1, but they can range it.

 

Also:Remember what happened to reaper in spvp:The nerfs made reaper unfun in spvp and easy free kills if alone and now reaper shroud goes down faster than ever and they were already fairly easy to kill due to lack of invulns and other stuff, and we were viable before this in spvp, just ridiculously hard due to needing someone to babysit us 24/7 and heal us so we can support them.

 

Still the one thing reapers gott o enjoy the most was WVW.

 

If anet takes away that too along with spvp and pve, I'm done and i quit this game.

[Kasdwer.3721]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> If anet takes away that too along with spvp and pve, I'm done and i quit this game.

 

i actually hope you will do that, cant stand to see you in nearly every thread and spamming "dont nerf scourge in spvp pls :((((((("

i mean you are actually trying to say here that scourge doesnt need any nerfs because of PvE while in reality ALL nerfs are pvp/wvw only they showed us so far (hence why its called pvp/wvw split balance)

 

 

[Axl.8924]

> @"Kasdwer.3721" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > If anet takes away that too along with spvp and pve, I'm done and i quit this game.

>

> i actually hope you will do that, cant stand to see you in nearly every thread and spamming "dont nerf scourge in spvp pls :((((((("

> i mean you are actually trying to say here that scourge doesnt need any nerfs because of PvE while in reality ALL nerfs are pvp/wvw only they showed us so far (hence why its called pvp/wvw split balance)

 

Well thats just like the way some love their thieves.I mean some were angry about pulmonary impact, and there are people on warrior angry about nerfs to dagger.

 

Those of us who actually play a class or more DON'T WANT IT NERFED TOO MUCH!! and there were necros here who said scourge was op and it got nerfed already several times.

 

Besides your a thief you are the least to complain mr Deadeye with massive range and spammy 2 gun pete who can spamm double barrel and gain enough initiative to do that forever.

 

Heck:I argued against nerfing S/D because i thought it was a gimmick anyways.I don't want necros nerfed into the ground, but i don't wan any of the other classes i play nerfed into the ground either.

 

 

[Kasdwer.3721]

people are complaining about pulmonary impact because its only used on DP, a build that isnt even meta atm, just imagine scourge would need a nerf and all anet would do would been a 30% dmg reduce on reaper shroud or gs, its a nerf that isnt neccesarry in the slightlest since the build itself isnt even played, but anet already said they are looking at the thief changes so i hope they actually nerf sdcore instead of dp thief

 

i dont play deadeye btw, but yeah since you are a scourge main and complain about deadeye i can assum you are prob silver/gold rating

 

edit: from what ive seen, you play druid and scourge in pvp, both the most braindead meta builds that needs nerf, if you think both builds doesnt need any nerfs then i feel sorry for you

[Axl.8924]

> @"Kasdwer.3721" said:

> people are complaining about pulmonary impact because its only used on DP, a build that isnt even meta atm, just imagine scourge would need a nerf and all anet would do would been a 30% dmg reduce on reaper shroud or gs, its a nerf that isnt neccesarry in the slightlest since the build itself isnt even played, but anet already said they are looking at the thief changes so i hope they actually nerf sdcore instead of dp thief

>

> i dont play deadeye btw, but yeah since you are a scourge main and complain about deadeye i can assum you are prob silver/gold rating

 

Not meta you say:HAH i've used D/p for a long time.Yeah it has its issues, but it still works really well due to daredevil speed up and condi cleanses.I've heard from some its stil viable for spvp, i mean cmon they aren't gonna nerf sp into the ground.

 

Wasn't S/P the hated one? with all the hate towards the teleport and condi spam?

 

Also thief problems don't belong on necro forums.I don't doubt thieves have their problems, but it is beyond me because i don't have the experience to speak about rated battlegrounds in spvp or wvw, so yeah.

[Kasdwer.3721]

have fun killing any meta build with dp thief then, theres a reason why nobody plays it atm

"ive used dp for a long time" sounds like you played it like some years ago with a entirely different meta, doesnt suprise me

 

"s/p the hated one? with all the hate towards the teleport and condi spam"

....what the?

 

edit: you were actually the one who started the thief discussion here, still dont see how it has to do anything with you being heavily biased for scourge (you are so biased you dont even see that scourge needs nerf in pvp)

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

> @"Kasdwer.3721" said:

 

> edit: you were actually the one who started the thief discussion here, still dont see how it has to do anything with you being heavily biased for scourge (you are so biased you dont even see that scourge needs nerf in pvp)

 

It needs a nerf, but ANet is refusing to nerf the right things. As a result, Scourge will definitely see another cycle of nerfs because people will still be screaming about it.

[Axl.8924]

have fun killing any meta build with dp thief then, theres a reason why nobody plays it atm

"ive used dp for a long time" sounds like you played it like some years ago with a entirely different meta, doesnt suprise me

 

"s/p the hated one? with all the hate towards the teleport and condi spam"

....what the?

 

Yeah people are always complaining about S/P teleports to you hits you and dodges as a condi thief throwing traps and hurting you and they can steal your buffs off you.In map chat people scream about condi thieves and how much they hate them and people on thief forum were complaining months ago about condi thieves.

 

I tried it out and it wasn't that overpoweed.

 

Also just in case you misunderstood:Yes S/P not S/D.

 

 

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180 ✭✭✭

12:02PM

edited 12:03PM

 

@Kasdwer.3721 said:

 

edit:It needs a nerf, but ANet is refusing to nerf the right things. As a result, Scourge will definitely see another cycle of nerfs because people will still be screaming about it.

 

you were actually the one who started the thief discussion here, still dont see how it has to do anything with you being heavily biased for scourge (you are so biased you dont even see that scourge needs nerf in pvp)

 

edit:It needs a nerf, but ANet is refusing to nerf the right things. As a result, Scourge will definitely see another cycle of nerfs because people will still be screaming about it.

 

Only thing that needs a nerf, are boons.Nerfing boon corrupt will just make boonspam meta overpowered, and leave a huge power creep between necros and every other class.It exists exactly because it is a counter to the boonspam meta, which at the moment is far too strong.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

Scourge needs one nerf and only one nerf: hitting Sand Savant's area. Nerfs that have already been applied may need to be reverted (and for all of those in PvE, certainly do need to be reverted). The proposed nerfs (in the PvP/WvW split thread) will do nothing to improve the game.

[Axl.8924]

You know what:I'l happily take scourge area nerf if and only if everything else is reverted for scourge.

[Kaiser.9873]

> @"Lahmia.2193" said:

> > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > But still eles are the main dmg sources there, not scourges. But almost noone realizes that, and so, everyone is just spamming scourge, and so: everyone dies from ita conditions.

> >

> In my experience that is only the case in choke fights. Open field, scourge still rules supreme (as I found out yesterday when I was constantly top dps in my guild whilst running full trails - the other scourges ran cele).

 

Unless you get behind a small tree, bush, or slightly lower point in the ground, and then it's nothing but "obstructed".

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> You know what:I'l happily take scourge area nerf if and only if everything else is reverted for scourge.

 

I would too. AOE effects are always going to be hard for devs and players to deal with. Whenever I see AOE effects in MMO's I steer clear of using them; they eventually lead to dissatisfaction, either because they are faceroll easy to win with, or because they get nerfed into sub-single target uselessness. Anet should have learned from DH trapper ... instead they took it a step further. Big mistake. Now, who pays the price ... the people capitalizing and investing time into playing the broken-ness that results from AOE effects.

[Crinn.7864]

> @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > The design was flawed for PVP/WVW in the first place ... I would have liked to think Anet learned a bit from DH Trapper ... but they took that idea and made it even worse on Scourge ... OK. DH trapper should have been the limit for AOE denial/control and if Anet is smart, that's where Scourge will have to be brought down to as well.

> > >

> > > The problem is Scourge, like DH trapper is only OP vs lower tiers.

> > Then please tell me why every single tournament team without exception brings at least one Scourge.

>

> Because boon spam is out of control and Scourge happens to be the best Necro variant? Winds of Disenchantment alone isn't good enough.

>

> Huge difference between "OP" and "necessary."

 

False, boon spam is not out of control. Heck, a lot of tournament teams during late HoT era (summer 2017) actually dropped necros completely since dedicated boonrip was no longer necessary. This isn't 2016 anymore, the boon bunker meta is dead.

 

Scourge is meta because the entire class straight up does to much damage and debuffing. The whole boonrip thing is just icing on the cake.

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > The design was flawed for PVP/WVW in the first place ... I would have liked to think Anet learned a bit from DH Trapper ... but they took that idea and made it even worse on Scourge ... OK. DH trapper should have been the limit for AOE denial/control and if Anet is smart, that's where Scourge will have to be brought down to as well.

> > > >

> > > > The problem is Scourge, like DH trapper is only OP vs lower tiers.

> > > Then please tell me why every single tournament team without exception brings at least one Scourge.

> >

> > Because boon spam is out of control and Scourge happens to be the best Necro variant? Winds of Disenchantment alone isn't good enough.

> >

> > Huge difference between "OP" and "necessary."

>

> False, boon spam is not out of control. Heck, a lot of tournament teams during late HoT era (summer 2017) actually dropped necros completely since dedicated boonrip was no longer necessary. This isn't 2016 anymore, the boon bunker meta is dead.

>

> Scourge is meta because the entire class straight up does to much damage and debuffing. The whole boonrip thing is just icing on the cake.

 

LOL...

They dropped necro entirely because Reaper had been nerfed to the ground and was so useless that boonrip wasn't enough to justify taking the class. Also "tournament" teams don't have the same signifier now as they had in 2015.

If Scourge's baseline damage was that great it wouldn't be trash-tier in PvE. Please just because you can't beat a scourge doesn't mean it's the strongest thing in the world.

I played scourge and Soulbeast in the two previous seasons (didn't play PvP this last one), and i could count on my fingers the number of times i've encountered a Scourge i couldn't beat. But i can tell you i got beat as a scourge by several rangers, thieves, and just general teamwork.

Classes are only as strong as your inability to counter them. And scourge (like all necro classes) has always had pretty well defined weaknesses. If you can't think to take advantage of those, it's more on you than the class design.