WHIRLING DEFENSE should be moving skill and not a "Sitting Duck"

[EnderzShadow.2506]

> @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > nope.

> > its the highest channel coefficient in the game, there should be a downside. it already blocks projectiles. maybe give it stability and resistance too along with your buff?

>

> Only in pvp, in pve its WA from warrior.

> If WD would do comparable dmg to WA in PvP it would be justified for movement.

> Maybe abit more dmg if they remove the retal and vuln which are kinda pointless eitherway.

 

do you really think the difference is that different from pvp to pve?

 

Im guessing you missed my post right above yours.

 

I could get Rangers axe 5 to pull 46k

Warrior with all the buffs I could muster only did 18.7k

 

or are you talking PURELY damage coefficient, and warrior just doesn't have as many as Ranger?

 

 

[DuckDuckBOOM.4097]

> > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > nope.

> > its the highest channel coefficient in the game, there should be a downside. it already blocks projectiles. maybe give it stability and resistance too along with your buff?

>

> Only in pvp, in pve its WA from warrior.

> If WD would do comparable dmg to WA in PvP it would be justified for movement.

> Maybe abit more dmg if they remove the retal and vuln which are kinda pointless eitherway.

 

Eh...

34k DPS with a 120k-135k from WD for Soulbeast.

33k DPS with ~110k from WA for Spellbreaker

27k DPS with ~100k from WA for base warrior

If you look just at the coeff itself, sure WA is higher. WD still ends up doing more damage in PvE and WD REFLECTS! You can get massive reflect damage and damage negation to your team.

 

Considering all forms of PvE and PvP (where I use WD):

Damage/reflects: Under no circumstance would I prefer mobility over the loss of damage or reflect.

Vulnerability: It's a 12% buff to the damage you, your pet, your reflects and your allies do. It's only "useless" in raids with 10 ppl always capping vuln. I prefer vuln to movement although it's less of a loss.

Retal: This is the only thing I don't really care about. If Anet wants to remove retal for mobility, sure. I'm fairly certain this would also make OH axe brokenly OP in PvP.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

> @"DuckDuckBOOM.4097" said:

> > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > > nope.

> > > its the highest channel coefficient in the game, there should be a downside. it already blocks projectiles. maybe give it stability and resistance too along with your buff?

> >

> > Only in pvp, in pve its WA from warrior.

> > If WD would do comparable dmg to WA in PvP it would be justified for movement.

> > Maybe abit more dmg if they remove the retal and vuln which are kinda pointless eitherway.

>

> Eh...

> 34k DPS with a 120k-135k from WD for Soulbeast.

>

> 33k DPS with ~110k from WA for Spellbreaker

>

> 27k DPS with ~100k from WA for base warrior

>

> If you look just at the coeff itself, sure WA is higher. WD still ends up doing more damage in PvE and WD REFLECTS! You can get massive reflect damage and damage negation to your team.

>

> Considering all forms of PvE and PvP (where I use WD):

> Damage/reflects: Under no circumstance would I prefer mobility over the loss of damage or reflect.

> Vulnerability: It's a 12% buff to the damage you, your pet, your reflects and your allies do. It's only "useless" in raids with 10 ppl always capping vuln. I prefer vuln to movement although it's less of a loss.

> Retal: This is the only thing I don't really care about. If Anet wants to remove retal for mobility, sure. I'm fairly certain this would also make OH axe brokenly OP in PvP.

 

Only a noob will stay near you to get all damage from WD. I want to see a player in Platinum-Legendary (even in Gold) who will stay to get hits from WD. To avoid WD it needs to just move away, instead to avoid WA you need to use both dodges and skills if you don't want to be hitten.

You know, a great martial artist said: "the brick will not fight back ever ..."

[BlackBeard.2873]

> @"EnderzShadow.2506" said:

> > @"BlackBeard.2873" said:

> > I totally agree, this needs to be a mobile skill, and probably pull enemies in too like binding blade. Since you are whirling it should also evade the whole time AND reflect projectiles, and should fully recharge your endurance, and do 2x damage.

> >

> > Boonbeast takes a whole half of a braincell as it is in pvp, it definitely needs to be EVEN stronger. Having perma all boons, 10s of spammable evades, excellent mobility, and burst-level of damage just isn't enough.

> >

> > This is such a good suggestion, thanks OP!

>

> I play boonbeast and I lost my half a braincell after reading yer post

> /feelsbad

>

> How much dmg does Ranger axe 5 do to a target that just takes two steps back?

> Oh thats right, none.

 

You are right, it should also apply a root to opponents so you don't need to use that half of a braincell to do it ahead of time.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

> @"BlackBeard.2873" said:

> > @"EnderzShadow.2506" said:

> > > @"BlackBeard.2873" said:

> > > I totally agree, this needs to be a mobile skill, and probably pull enemies in too like binding blade. Since you are whirling it should also evade the whole time AND reflect projectiles, and should fully recharge your endurance, and do 2x damage.

> > >

> > > Boonbeast takes a whole half of a braincell as it is in pvp, it definitely needs to be EVEN stronger. Having perma all boons, 10s of spammable evades, excellent mobility, and burst-level of damage just isn't enough.

> > >

> > > This is such a good suggestion, thanks OP!

> >

> > I play boonbeast and I lost my half a braincell after reading yer post

> > /feelsbad

> >

> > How much dmg does Ranger axe 5 do to a target that just takes two steps back?

> > Oh thats right, none.

>

> You are right, it should also apply a root to opponents so you don't need to use that half of a braincell to do it ahead of time.

 

I have literally 1 stun and zero roots in my build. I Dont run greatsword.

The stun I have I use to set up other burst. So that's not happening.

 

Does a warrior have to set it up? Extra speed, just pop it and move towards the foe.

I dont need all the extra dmg. I want something that I can use regularly to apply pressure.

And atm axe 5 sucks.

 

ps- I guess stability doesn't exist in your personal version of gw2

[BlackBeard.2873]

> @"EnderzShadow.2506" said:

> > @"BlackBeard.2873" said:

> > > @"EnderzShadow.2506" said:

> > > > @"BlackBeard.2873" said:

> > > > I totally agree, this needs to be a mobile skill, and probably pull enemies in too like binding blade. Since you are whirling it should also evade the whole time AND reflect projectiles, and should fully recharge your endurance, and do 2x damage.

> > > >

> > > > Boonbeast takes a whole half of a braincell as it is in pvp, it definitely needs to be EVEN stronger. Having perma all boons, 10s of spammable evades, excellent mobility, and burst-level of damage just isn't enough.

> > > >

> > > > This is such a good suggestion, thanks OP!

> > >

> > > I play boonbeast and I lost my half a braincell after reading yer post

> > > /feelsbad

> > >

> > > How much dmg does Ranger axe 5 do to a target that just takes two steps back?

> > > Oh thats right, none.

> >

> > You are right, it should also apply a root to opponents so you don't need to use that half of a braincell to do it ahead of time.

>

> I have literally 1 stun and zero roots in my build. I Dont run greatsword.

> The stun I have I use to set up other burst. So that's not happening.

>

> Does a warrior have to set it up? Extra speed, just pop it and move towards the foe.

> I dont need all the extra dmg. I want something that I can use regularly to apply pressure.

> And atm axe 5 sucks.

>

> ps- I guess stability doesn't exist in your personal version of gw2

 

Correct, rangers should have their perma-stability to also make them immune to cripple and immobilize. Also, it makes perfect sense that a hard-hitting skill that is also a very strong defensive skill have no drawback. I propose we instead give the ranger super-speed during the skill too. What are trade-offs? I'll tell you what they are - something for the peasant classes to have...not us!!

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

> @"BlackBeard.2873" said:

> > @"EnderzShadow.2506" said:

> > > @"BlackBeard.2873" said:

> > > > @"EnderzShadow.2506" said:

> > > > > @"BlackBeard.2873" said:

> > > > > I totally agree, this needs to be a mobile skill, and probably pull enemies in too like binding blade. Since you are whirling it should also evade the whole time AND reflect projectiles, and should fully recharge your endurance, and do 2x damage.

> > > > >

> > > > > Boonbeast takes a whole half of a braincell as it is in pvp, it definitely needs to be EVEN stronger. Having perma all boons, 10s of spammable evades, excellent mobility, and burst-level of damage just isn't enough.

> > > > >

> > > > > This is such a good suggestion, thanks OP!

> > > >

> > > > I play boonbeast and I lost my half a braincell after reading yer post

> > > > /feelsbad

> > > >

> > > > How much dmg does Ranger axe 5 do to a target that just takes two steps back?

> > > > Oh thats right, none.

> > >

> > > You are right, it should also apply a root to opponents so you don't need to use that half of a braincell to do it ahead of time.

> >

> > I have literally 1 stun and zero roots in my build. I Dont run greatsword.

> > The stun I have I use to set up other burst. So that's not happening.

> >

> > Does a warrior have to set it up? Extra speed, just pop it and move towards the foe.

> > I dont need all the extra dmg. I want something that I can use regularly to apply pressure.

> > And atm axe 5 sucks.

> >

> > ps- I guess stability doesn't exist in your personal version of gw2

>

> Correct, rangers should have their perma-stability to also make them immune to cripple and immobilize. Also, it makes perfect sense that a hard-hitting skill that is also a very strong defensive skill have no drawback. I propose we instead give the ranger super-speed during the skill too. What are trade-offs? I'll tell you what they are - something for the peasant classes to have...not us!!

 

@""BlackBeard.2873" we understand your POV and your sarcasm ... I don't know why, but I have that feeling that you are not a Ranger player, but another class.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"EnderzShadow.2506" said:

> > @"BlackBeard.2873" said:

> > > @"EnderzShadow.2506" said:

> > > > @"BlackBeard.2873" said:

> > > > I totally agree, this needs to be a mobile skill, and probably pull enemies in too like binding blade. Since you are whirling it should also evade the whole time AND reflect projectiles, and should fully recharge your endurance, and do 2x damage.

> > > >

> > > > Boonbeast takes a whole half of a braincell as it is in pvp, it definitely needs to be EVEN stronger. Having perma all boons, 10s of spammable evades, excellent mobility, and burst-level of damage just isn't enough.

> > > >

> > > > This is such a good suggestion, thanks OP!

> > >

> > > I play boonbeast and I lost my half a braincell after reading yer post

> > > /feelsbad

> > >

> > > How much dmg does Ranger axe 5 do to a target that just takes two steps back?

> > > Oh thats right, none.

> >

> > You are right, it should also apply a root to opponents so you don't need to use that half of a braincell to do it ahead of time.

>

> I have literally 1 stun and zero roots in my build. I Dont run greatsword.

> The stun I have I use to set up other burst. So that's not happening.

>

> Does a warrior have to set it up? Extra speed, just pop it and move towards the foe.

> I dont need all the extra dmg. I want something that I can use regularly to apply pressure.

> And atm axe 5 sucks.

>

> ps- I guess stability doesn't exist in your personal version of gw2

 

lol well guess whos fault that is. its extremely easy to snare ppl up on ranger, they've got tons of cc available.

 

like most posts about buff advocation, seems some of you may have forgotten about the overall balance aspect of the class. you cant just buff something and call it a day: soulbeast/druid has tons of sustain potential, and buffing WD in this way would mean a lot more damage would land. cant get a buff like this without a nerf somewhere else. if say WD damage was nerfed in lieu of mobility then I could agree to that, I mean even with a nerf WD would still prob hit really hard.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > @"EnderzShadow.2506" said:

> > > @"BlackBeard.2873" said:

> > > > @"EnderzShadow.2506" said:

> > > > > @"BlackBeard.2873" said:

> > > > > I totally agree, this needs to be a mobile skill, and probably pull enemies in too like binding blade. Since you are whirling it should also evade the whole time AND reflect projectiles, and should fully recharge your endurance, and do 2x damage.

> > > > >

> > > > > Boonbeast takes a whole half of a braincell as it is in pvp, it definitely needs to be EVEN stronger. Having perma all boons, 10s of spammable evades, excellent mobility, and burst-level of damage just isn't enough.

> > > > >

> > > > > This is such a good suggestion, thanks OP!

> > > >

> > > > I play boonbeast and I lost my half a braincell after reading yer post

> > > > /feelsbad

> > > >

> > > > How much dmg does Ranger axe 5 do to a target that just takes two steps back?

> > > > Oh thats right, none.

> > >

> > > You are right, it should also apply a root to opponents so you don't need to use that half of a braincell to do it ahead of time.

> >

> > I have literally 1 stun and zero roots in my build. I Dont run greatsword.

> > The stun I have I use to set up other burst. So that's not happening.

> >

> > Does a warrior have to set it up? Extra speed, just pop it and move towards the foe.

> > I dont need all the extra dmg. I want something that I can use regularly to apply pressure.

> > And atm axe 5 sucks.

> >

> > ps- I guess stability doesn't exist in your personal version of gw2

>

> lol well guess whos fault that is. its extremely easy to snare ppl up on ranger, they've got tons of cc available.

>

> like most posts about buff advocation, seems some of you may have forgotten about the overall balance aspect of the class. you cant just buff something and call it a day: soulbeast/druid has tons of sustain potential, and buffing WD in this way would mean a lot more damage would land. cant get a buff like this without a nerf somewhere else. if say WD damage was nerfed in lieu of mobility then I could agree to that, I mean even with a nerf WD would still prob hit really hard.

 

WD, it is useless against a good player. Basically, you spin like a fool in the same point. 150 -180 radius it is nothing. Even if you fight on the point in sPVP, the point radius is bigger than 180, so an enemy can just step back and he still will be in the circle of the point, without getting any damage. Maybe in PVE this WD it is useful, due to his higher damage vs dummy npc, even it hits only 3 target instead of other skills who hits 5. Ofc if they will make it mobile, they should nerf some of retaliation or vulnerability.

For sPVP and WvW WD is just useless.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > @"EnderzShadow.2506" said:

> > > @"BlackBeard.2873" said:

> > > > @"EnderzShadow.2506" said:

> > > > > @"BlackBeard.2873" said:

> > > > > I totally agree, this needs to be a mobile skill, and probably pull enemies in too like binding blade. Since you are whirling it should also evade the whole time AND reflect projectiles, and should fully recharge your endurance, and do 2x damage.

> > > > >

> > > > > Boonbeast takes a whole half of a braincell as it is in pvp, it definitely needs to be EVEN stronger. Having perma all boons, 10s of spammable evades, excellent mobility, and burst-level of damage just isn't enough.

> > > > >

> > > > > This is such a good suggestion, thanks OP!

> > > >

> > > > I play boonbeast and I lost my half a braincell after reading yer post

> > > > /feelsbad

> > > >

> > > > How much dmg does Ranger axe 5 do to a target that just takes two steps back?

> > > > Oh thats right, none.

> > >

> > > You are right, it should also apply a root to opponents so you don't need to use that half of a braincell to do it ahead of time.

> >

> > I have literally 1 stun and zero roots in my build. I Dont run greatsword.

> > The stun I have I use to set up other burst. So that's not happening.

> >

> > Does a warrior have to set it up? Extra speed, just pop it and move towards the foe.

> > I dont need all the extra dmg. I want something that I can use regularly to apply pressure.

> > And atm axe 5 sucks.

> >

> > ps- I guess stability doesn't exist in your personal version of gw2

>

> lol well guess whos fault that is. its extremely easy to snare ppl up on ranger, they've got tons of cc available.

>

> like most posts about buff advocation, seems some of you may have forgotten about the overall balance aspect of the class. you cant just buff something and call it a day: soulbeast/druid has tons of sustain potential, and buffing WD in this way would mean a lot more damage would land. cant get a buff like this without a nerf somewhere else. if say WD damage was nerfed in lieu of mobility then I could agree to that, I mean even with a nerf WD would still prob hit really hard.

 

Do you main ranger?

If you don't, I'm afraid it wouldn't matter what I proposed for Ranger, you would just shoot it down.

And based on what? One ranger build that is CURRENTLY strong? Do you know how quickly that could change?

 

I am all for getting movement plus 50 percent movement speed just like that on Warrior, in exchange for less dmg and less of all the other boons on the skill.

 

As it stands right now, I could make a whole build around Ranger Axe 5.

On a single dummy in spvp area, I was able to pull of 46k dmg.

So it sounds possible to be able to make at least a gimic build that will just wreck a mid fight.

In fact, I tried it. Zerk, Scholar runes.

A whole build that focused dmg around rooted targets and Axe.

I had 3 ways to AOE Root, Stability and 2 forms of signet of stone, 1 immune to all dmg.

2 heals. A way to escape after my gimic was over.

You know what happens? A whole lot of nothing.

Why, because most people have stability, blocks and evades of their own.

They might get hit a few times for a decent amount, but nothing even remotely substantial for all the tradeoff.

As Dragon already mentioned, the aoe only hits 3 people, not 5 and the aoe size is small.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"EnderzShadow.2506" said:

> I am all for getting movement plus 50 percent movement speed just like that on Warrior, in exchange for less dmg and less of all the other boons on the skill.

 

ok.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > @"EnderzShadow.2506" said:

> > I am all for getting movement plus 50 percent movement speed just like that on Warrior, in exchange for less dmg and less of all the other boons on the skill.

>

> ok.

 

lol.....

oh I actually laughed in rl... /cheers

[DuckDuckBOOM.4097]

> @"Dragonzhunter.8506" said:

> Only a noob will stay near you to get all damage from WD. I want to see a player in Platinum-Legendary (even in Gold) who will stay to get hits from WD. To avoid WD it needs to just move away, instead to avoid WA you need to use both dodges and skills if you don't want to be hitten.

> You know, a great martial artist said: "the brick will not fight back ever ..."

 

To avoid WA, just play PvP: I honestly don't remember the last time I've seen a warrior use WA in PvP.

 

Preface to screenshots. Grad school/life means I'm rusty in general at PvP. I'm mostly a necro main in PvP/WvW and ranger main in PvE but I like to troll with glass cannon SB. I decided to mess with a new skirmishing/bm/sb build in ranked despite normally using MM or WS instead of skirmishing so it's not even my normal builds. I also just got done talking to comcast (fuck comcast) for an hour trying to fix my internet and I won't be able to finish my placement matches soon so I have no idea where I'm at MMR wise. TLDR, I'm rusty on my pvp alt with my internet crapping out and I still manged to pull a few screenshots of WD in ranked.

 

https://imgur.com/a/Llmuvfm

 

First screenshot: That's a ~8k, ~22k and ~10k to 3 enemies although I think the 8k is actually an illusion so whatever on that one. Cleaving out groups of downed/ressing enemies is a really strong point of this skill. Especially since a lot of downed 1/2 skills are projectiles.

 

2nd screenshot a ranked match with me downing/cleaving out a mirage with WD. What technically downed the mirage is reflecting the pistol 5 with WD (check the right side of the screen). **I point this out so that you know I didn't just use WD on the downed body but actually downed them with WD dmg/reflect.** No sic'em and yet I still hit 17.7k.

 

3rd screenshot: The same ranked match 1 minute later when the SB respawns and comes back. I down him with WI, then cleaved him out with a 25k WD while his pet took 14k dmg as well WITHOUT using sic'em. It's easy for enemies to not move when they are downed ^^. I just kept it there because hitting 25k with no sic'em is still great damage.

 

I didn't have my finger hovering over print screen so action shots mid fight are harder to pull off compared to taking a shot when a fight is ending. The above are more just proof that it's possible to land the full channel in ranked (I'll probably place in plat 1-2 if things go similar to prior seasons). In general, downing people then cleaving out a downed/resser is great. Even if the resser pulls out, you still kill the downed enemy and the resser is low health. Axe4/5 to interrupt and burst them to get 2 downed/dead. Or just in general and axe4/5 will kill ppl since axe4 hits like a truck and positions them for axe 5. When some builds try to kite the longbow behind a wall, a quick WD through the wall can also mess them up and down them fast. **You do not need the full channel to down a kiting enemy if a no sic'em channel does 25k.** When that much damage happens, the first 1/2-1 second can still down them especially if you time it to reflect damage. The only class that WD is really dangerous to use against is a spellbreaker with F2 not on CD.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

> @"DuckDuckBOOM.4097" said:

> > @"Dragonzhunter.8506" said:

> > Only a noob will stay near you to get all damage from WD. I want to see a player in Platinum-Legendary (even in Gold) who will stay to get hits from WD. To avoid WD it needs to just move away, instead to avoid WA you need to use both dodges and skills if you don't want to be hitten.

> > You know, a great martial artist said: "the brick will not fight back ever ..."

>

> To avoid WA, just play PvP: I honestly don't remember the last time I've seen a warrior use WA in PvP.

>

> Preface to screenshots. Grad school/life means I'm rusty in general at PvP. I'm mostly a necro main in PvP/WvW and ranger main in PvE but I like to troll with glass cannon SB. I decided to mess with a new skirmishing/bm/sb build in ranked despite normally using MM or WS instead of skirmishing so it's not even my normal builds. I also just got done talking to comcast (kitten comcast) for an hour trying to fix my internet and I won't be able to finish my placement matches soon so I have no idea where I'm at MMR wise. TLDR, I'm rusty on my pvp alt with my internet crapping out and I still manged to pull a few screenshots of WD in ranked.

>

> https://imgur.com/a/Llmuvfm

>

> First screenshot: That's a ~8k, ~22k and ~10k to 3 enemies although I think the 8k is actually an illusion so whatever on that one. Cleaving out groups of downed/ressing enemies is a really strong point of this skill. Especially since a lot of downed 1/2 skills are projectiles.

>

> 2nd screenshot a ranked match with me downing/cleaving out a mirage with WD. What technically downed the mirage is reflecting the pistol 5 with WD (check the right side of the screen). **I point this out so that you know I didn't just use WD on the downed body but actually downed them with WD dmg/reflect.** No sic'em and yet I still hit 17.7k.

>

> 3rd screenshot: The same ranked match 1 minute later when the SB respawns and comes back. I down him with WI, then cleaved him out with a 25k WD while his pet took 14k dmg as well WITHOUT using sic'em. It's easy for enemies to not move when they are downed ^^. I just kept it there because hitting 25k with no sic'em is still great damage.

>

> I didn't have my finger hovering over print screen so action shots mid fight are harder to pull off compared to taking a shot when a fight is ending. The above are more just proof that it's possible to land the full channel in ranked (I'll probably place in plat 1-2 if things go similar to prior seasons). In general, downing people then cleaving out a downed/resser is great. Even if the resser pulls out, you still kill the downed enemy and the resser is low health. Axe4/5 to interrupt and burst them to get 2 downed/dead. Or just in general and axe4/5 will kill ppl since axe4 hits like a truck and positions them for axe 5. When some builds try to kite the longbow behind a wall, a quick WD through the wall can also mess them up and down them fast. **You do not need the full channel to down a kiting enemy if a no sic'em channel does 25k.** When that much damage happens, the first 1/2-1 second can still down them especially if you time it to reflect damage. The only class that WD is really dangerous to use against is a spellbreaker with F2 not on CD.

 

All those ppl you killed them with WD are noobs. I can go glass cannon like you in silver, also I can go naked and show you how powerful Axe+Torch / Shortbow are ... because I can find enough noobs who will stay in my circle of fire when It hits with 4.5k/s burning (Torch) + 2k/s bleeding (Axe+Trap)+ 1.5k/s bleeding (short bow), so in 3 sec he will be dead and not only one , but 3 in the same time ... but this scenario it will not work in Gold, Platinum or Legendary. We don't talk here about what you can do if ... some noobs just stay to take your full WD. I want you to show me a good ranger who use WD in Platinum. I have a friend who just play now, in these moments in Silver, he plays glass cannon ranger, and he killed everything ... 22 kills/ match ... WOW ... but soon when he will go Gold he will die 22 times ...

[EnderzShadow.2506]

> @"DuckDuckBOOM.4097" said:

> > @"Dragonzhunter.8506" said:

> > Only a noob will stay near you to get all damage from WD. I want to see a player in Platinum-Legendary (even in Gold) who will stay to get hits from WD. To avoid WD it needs to just move away, instead to avoid WA you need to use both dodges and skills if you don't want to be hitten.

> > You know, a great martial artist said: "the brick will not fight back ever ..."

>

> To avoid WA, just play PvP: I honestly don't remember the last time I've seen a warrior use WA in PvP.

>

> Preface to screenshots. Grad school/life means I'm rusty in general at PvP. I'm mostly a necro main in PvP/WvW and ranger main in PvE but I like to troll with glass cannon SB. I decided to mess with a new skirmishing/bm/sb build in ranked despite normally using MM or WS instead of skirmishing so it's not even my normal builds. I also just got done talking to comcast (kitten comcast) for an hour trying to fix my internet and I won't be able to finish my placement matches soon so I have no idea where I'm at MMR wise. TLDR, I'm rusty on my pvp alt with my internet crapping out and I still manged to pull a few screenshots of WD in ranked.

>

> https://imgur.com/a/Llmuvfm

>

> First screenshot: That's a ~8k, ~22k and ~10k to 3 enemies although I think the 8k is actually an illusion so whatever on that one. Cleaving out groups of downed/ressing enemies is a really strong point of this skill. Especially since a lot of downed 1/2 skills are projectiles.

>

> 2nd screenshot a ranked match with me downing/cleaving out a mirage with WD. What technically downed the mirage is reflecting the pistol 5 with WD (check the right side of the screen). **I point this out so that you know I didn't just use WD on the downed body but actually downed them with WD dmg/reflect.** No sic'em and yet I still hit 17.7k.

>

> 3rd screenshot: The same ranked match 1 minute later when the SB respawns and comes back. I down him with WI, then cleaved him out with a 25k WD while his pet took 14k dmg as well WITHOUT using sic'em. It's easy for enemies to not move when they are downed ^^. I just kept it there because hitting 25k with no sic'em is still great damage.

>

> I didn't have my finger hovering over print screen so action shots mid fight are harder to pull off compared to taking a shot when a fight is ending. The above are more just proof that it's possible to land the full channel in ranked (I'll probably place in plat 1-2 if things go similar to prior seasons). In general, downing people then cleaving out a downed/resser is great. Even if the resser pulls out, you still kill the downed enemy and the resser is low health. Axe4/5 to interrupt and burst them to get 2 downed/dead. Or just in general and axe4/5 will kill ppl since axe4 hits like a truck and positions them for axe 5. When some builds try to kite the longbow behind a wall, a quick WD through the wall can also mess them up and down them fast. **You do not need the full channel to down a kiting enemy if a no sic'em channel does 25k.** When that much damage happens, the first 1/2-1 second can still down them especially if you time it to reflect damage. The only class that WD is really dangerous to use against is a spellbreaker with F2 not on CD.

 

Im not here to question in what rank of pvp you did this.

Lets assume you can pull off what you talked about in Plat 2.

I think most would agree that is a very high lvl of play.

 

From what you said, it seems to me, axe 4 and 5 only have usefullness vs a LB Ranger when he pops rapid fire and is too stupid to either dodge or cancel the rapid fire.

How many longbow soulbeasts do you see in Plat 2?

How many Rangers that use Lb in Plat 2 are too dumb to dodge or cancel the rapid fire that is coming right back at them?

 

The other time you use axe 4 is on downs, for the CC from the pull

and then axe 5 on the resser/ressers and the downed.

 

 

@"DuckDuckBOOM.4097"

Just assume I addressed you when I replied to @"Eurantien.4632"

You brought up the same point that he brought up.

"Warriors in pvp dont use Axe 5 /Axe 5 for warriors is bad".

 

For starters, were talking about one weapon, a weapon that is one patch away from being bad for Rangers

and Great for Warriors. A rune change here, a trait change there and all of a sudden warriors ARE using axe 5

and chasing you down with some pretty substantial damage.

At that point, it sure would be nice if Rangers axe 5 didn't root through a full animation.

I remember when it was highly uncommon for Rangers to use axe 5. It really wasn't that long ago.

It would of been great to see the change then and it would be great to see it changed now.

 

 

Really it doesn't matter. We are having an imaginary argument as if the devs are actually going to side with one of us.

We are both intelligent enough to know that's not happening.

 

The only way axe 5 will be changed and it will be for the worse, is if enough plebs complain about the dmg.

"zomg nerf rangurs axe, I got one shot!"

 

/cheers

 

[DuckDuckBOOM.4097]

> @"Dragonzhunter.8506" said:

> All those ppl you killed them with WD are noobs. I can go glass cannon like you in silver, also I can go naked and show you how powerful Axe+Torch / Shortbow are ... because I can find enough noobs who will stay in my circle of fire when It hits with 4.5k/s burning (Torch) + 2k/s bleeding (Axe+Trap)+ 1.5k/s bleeding (short bow), so in 3 sec he will be dead and not only one , but 3 in the same time ... but this scenario it will not work in Gold, Platinum or Legendary. We don't talk here about what you can do if ... some noobs just stay to take your full WD. I want you to show me a good ranger who use WD in Platinum. I have a friend who just play now, in these moments in Silver, he plays glass cannon ranger, and he killed everything ... 22 kills/ match ... WOW ... but soon when he will go Gold he will die 22 times ...

 

I like how you pull the noob/silver argument without even understanding what is happening. Especially in the second image:

 

Some info I learned from mostly maining mesmer and maximizing reflect damage in dungeons: Reflects damage is based off of enemy skill coefficient and power (meta builds such as carrion or sage have power) while using the reflectors precision, ferocity and damage modifier. SB builds I use have a ton of this. The skrimishing/bm/SB maurader has probably one of the highest in the game for those values which makes **reflects from a glass soulbeast devastating.**

 

I don't open with WD and except my enemies to throw themselves on it. The mesmer didn't stand there. The mesmer and I were both low because we were fighting. Mesmer activated a projectile skill and I reacted and activated WD which causes massive reflect damage (hence the mesmer actually downing them self in the image) while I also began channeling a heavy hitting skill. WD with quickness (strider's defense) can still proc the first few ticks of damage faster than a lot of people can react. That's still ~4-6k damage + reflect damage and suddenly they are downed. When meta builds have ~20k health, that's a LOT of damage. And when PvP enemies get downed, they don't go invuln so the channel continues and adds up the damage. They are not bad enemies because I finish the full channel on them. I am timing for when they are disabled/able to burst them down with the first few ticks.

 

Also @"EnderzShadow.2506"

I'm actually surprised I managed to capture the mesmer fight/reflect with a single photo. That's a high lvl of play sure. It's probably the best play of the night for me.

 

In regards to reflecting lb2, most rangers cast it far away from me so I don't bother reflecting for damage. The distance/travel time gives them too much time to react. This is probably similar with warriors reflecting ranger longbow with shield block. I rarely see it do much damage from far. However, just because I don't get damage, doesn't mean I failed and did nothing with WD. If I force a cancel that still stops a major burst on myself or an ally if I don't have other defenses up. This also applies to downed body stuff in team fights.

 

Speaking of warrior shield: I actually consider OH ranger Axe to fill a similar slot to warrior shield in PvP. Both have a CC and defense although ranger axe is higher risk vs reward. Ranger is AoE CC but harder to aim. Ranger is stationary team reflect instead of mobile selfish reflect/block but it's also massive damage. That's why I don't think warrior axe is just 1 patch away from being viable/meta in PvP. Does the meta warrior drop shield or GS for it? The defense/utility on GS/Shield are not easy to give up. Any rune that buffs whirl finishers (both axe 5) will also make ranger stronger so I'm happy there. Rangers also have smoke scale to pulse aoe blind with axe 5 while meta warriors don't have fields to combo with. So it would be very hard for a rune change to somehow buff warrior axe without also buffing ranger axe.

 

For reference, if axe 5 is hitting for 25k then axe 4 hits for about 3.8k each way or 7.6k total. (Those aren't with sic'em) That still chunks anyone. The closer you aim it, the faster it returns and the harder it is the dodge/react. This isn't about pulling 1200-1500 range enemies closer to me. Just like reflecting longbow 2, that's too much reaction time due to distance. I put sigil of battle/exposure on the sword/axe to suddenly wtf explode people that get too close to me when I'm camping longbow. Sigil of annulment might actually be better.

 

The other two screen shots are not as high level though. I guess playing a glass SB can be considered hard but the axe 5 execution wasn't. I'm glassy. I don't stomp unless I longbow stealth. Like it's physically not possible to sword cleave pressure downed bodies in team fights because I'm too glassy. Axe 5 is a different story. I just shred peoples downed bodies which is what happened in the other two screen shots. Unlike the stomp animation which applies no immediate pressure, **when I WD on a downed body, I force my enemies to make a choice: immediately stop ressing your ally or die.** It's actually a pretty easy play to make at any tier of play unless a blood scourge or spell breaker is around.

[scerevisiae.1972]

yeah i think all/most self-rooting skills should be able to move at half-speed or so, just for QoL reasons cause it feels pretty kitten when you combo and the game bugs out and the target is left just outside your range.

 

same goes for 100 blades, you should be able to move while channelling, albeit slowly. blurred frenzy is a bit special because it is a full evade and the weapon it's on also comes with an immob, so i probably wouldn't change it, but whirling defense and 100-blades definitely should be more like guardian GS #2 (whirling wrath).

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > @"OGDeadHead.8326" said:

> > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > > Fine if you want to move if it makes the skill more usable, but that coefficient better come down lol.

> > >

> > > Backstab coefficient? 2.4

> > > Hundred Blades Coefficient? 4.62 + 1.21 (5.83)

> > > ...

> > > WD Coefficient? 7.92 + vuln + projectile reflect + whirl finisher lol

> >

> > And how often can you use said skills within, lets say, 1 minute? So yeah, lol to you to.

> >

> > What a joke...

>

> Um... the only environment where using skills over and over again over the course of a minute matters is PvE, to which this change doesn't concern anyone because there's little reason to move. By your logic, utility skills are all underpowered if they have anything above an 8s cooldown because of how often they can be used.

>

> Shadowstep on thief on a 20s cooldown seems real balanced then, right? No? Why?

>

> 7.92 + retal + vuln + projectile reflect + whirl on a 360 degree AoE at 180 radius that's mobile is massively overloaded on a single skill for an offhand weapon and you're delusional if you think it isn't.

>

> Hell, the skill is called whirling DEFENSE. It's supposed to function as a zoning tool for area denial, not some kind of mega-nuke ability that kills everything nearby.

>

 

This.

[MyPuppy.8970]

I'd gladly trade WD with churning earth or rust Frenzy!

[scerevisiae.1972]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> 7.92 + retal + vuln + projectile reflect + whirl on a 360 degree AoE at 180 radius that's mobile is massively overloaded on a single skill for an offhand weapon and you're delusional if you think it isn't.

 

Yeah it's a good skill but it does feel annoying to use because of the self-root. I agree the dmg multiplier and vuln/retal would need to be toned down if it were to become mobile, doesn't mean they shouldn't do it just to improve the QoL of the skill.

 

IMO axe #4 is the bigger issue, for such a short pull it's very unreliable because the projectile is very slow, and the affected AOE is so narrow.

[Revolution.5409]

I like the idea of having WD not rooted even if this would mean losing some of its damage or losing all its extra effects, at the beginning this skill was easier to use, than the classes did not have all these break-stun, even the old way of using path of scars made the skill much more practicable, I would say anet restores the old path of scars and before implementing new game mechanics a reworking of rooted skills is necessary for a game that becomes faster. :)

[Krispera.5087]

WD is fine now with meta Soulbeast (Dolyak Stance), but less useable with Ranger and Druid. If they buff it, it will make SBeast even better, if they nerf it, it will directly nerf Ranger and Druid even more.

 

Can't really win.

[Felipe.1807]

Theres no reason at all for WD be mobille, you even have a pull on 4 skill to combo, we should be talking about nerfs to Soulbeast and not more random buffs to powercreep the game even more.

[Pregnantman.8259]

I think WD with Quickness is good. You still probably won't get the full channel, but if you couple it with Hydromancy as well you can land a good portion of it. The enemy will usually need to back away if they are attacking and if I am lucky I can force a dodge :)

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"Krispera.5087" said:

> WD is fine now with meta Soulbeast (Dolyak Stance), but less useable with Ranger and Druid. If they buff it, it will make SBeast even better, if they nerf it, it will directly nerf Ranger and Druid even more.

>

> Can't really win.

 

They should nerf Sbeast and give WD some movement. Thats the only way to say you can win.

 

Nerfing boons and condis of WD would also help to balance it out.