Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 > @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said: > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > Because you know, revealing the mesmer during combat is SO bad. > > > > Oh boo kitten hoo, now they won't rely on clone spamming as much and they will actually have to move, instead of afking on greatsword. > > > > Sheesh. > > > > Mesmer can truly do no wrong. > > This defeats one of the design purposes of mesmer clones. There's other ways to figure out the real clone, use those. LOL I like this dev. Can you please comment more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BABE.6384 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 There was tons of ways to keep track of the real mes Until ANET decided lets have mesmer make TWICE the amount of illusions they ever could during the entirety of this game. Along with giving them a new type of skill that literally says *breaks enemy targeting* Its a pain in the ass to try to click on the mesmer while 8 clones + him are running at you and its completely laughable to suggest that it isnt. Have you fought them since the rework with a single target weapon that needs a target to use skills ben? Mesmer is overtuned ever since they decided to waste resources redoing a class that was performing just fine gamewide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumpy.8760 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 "Control + T" target thing doesn't get cleared when using "Break Enemy Targeting" skills., like from Axes of Symmetry and Illusionary Ambush, can we do something about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 > @"BABE.6384" said: > There was tons of ways to keep track of the real mes > Until ANET decided lets have mesmer make TWICE the amount of illusions they ever could during the entirety of this game. > Along with giving them a new type of skill that literally says *breaks enemy targeting* > > Its a pain in the kitten to try to click on the mesmer while 8 clones + him are running at you and its completely laughable to suggest that it isnt. > Have you fought them since the rework with a single target weapon that needs a target to use skills ben? > > Mesmer is overtuned ever since they decided to waste resources redoing a class that was performing just fine gamewide. > Clicking.... if you’re clicking you just told me and most others it’s a l2p. You can tab target and it’s almost guaranteed the first target is the real player. 2nd. At no point can we have 8+ clones nor have we. Phantasm? Yes we can have a few. But why are you clicking on a phantasm anyway? 3rd. Are some aspects over tuned? Yes, but that’s the same across all classes(except Rev it sucks). The problem is that yourself and others are jealous and upset that Mesmer received a rework before your chosen class. You want to believe that the class was “just fine” before the rework but it wasn’t. We were boon bots in PvE until mirage but we weren’t able to use our class mechanic. We were limited to being a portal monkey in PvP forever because the one time we had a working bunker build it got nerfed. Condi? Gutted. Back to portal monkey. WvW? Roaming and small scale which are not supported within the game mode. You could be a buff bot it sucked and required communication and expensive gear. So please get out with that just fine crap. Anet hasn’t mentioned it yet, but I’m sure they’re working on similar reworks for other classes. When that time comes do you want everyone griping your class is OP? No, so stop with Mesmer and other classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 > @"Odik.4587" said: > This dev answer is golden O_O> @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > Because you know, revealing the mesmer during combat is SO bad. > > > > Oh boo kitten hoo, now they won't rely on clone spamming as much and they will actually have to move, instead of afking on greatsword. > > > > Sheesh. > > > > Mesmer can truly do no wrong. > > Wew... if you still struggle to find real one after all this years... thats sad Right? You know it’s bad when a dev answers like that. Not sure what class/mode Ben plays but that’s by far the best dev response I can think of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilli.2976 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Keep it how it is, then mesmers won't be so powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BABE.6384 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 YES "CLICKING" the player, I have yet to see this "almost guarantee" of the tab system. The tab options are "nearest player" or "next player", I use next normally and have tried both plenty. I just sat in the arena w/ a mesmer that made 5+ illusions and at NO TIME. was the mesmer the first thing tabbed to. You must have a special tab target. You think I should tab target thru however many clones are closer to me than the mesmer every single time mes uses a detarget skill? Mesmer has always been able to have more than 3 illusions if you shattered then made more before they arrive at the target. Now however, it is braindead easy to be able to produce MORE than the previous maximum amounts. So yes. you can have more than 6 illusions currently. You defending Bunker mesmer is a joke. THAT IS WHAT KILLED PRO LEAGUES viewership and all chances of the game having more International Tournaments Confusion deserved to be gutted in pvp and never should have been a non pve change in the first place. Not every single class needs to OR WILL have a place in a zerg. It is just fine in small scale. Idc about pve. this is pvp forum. 0 jealousy, I don't think any class needs or needed any full rework. Just more consistent balance updates. Multiple mesmer playstyles thrive in pvp and have for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NICENIKESHOE.7128 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Its amusing really. No matter players or dev talk about how this contradicts purpose of clone, there're always people bringing up other stuff to say "too much spam, mesmer OP just keep the unintended oversight". Its almost like a shallow attempt for them to request mesmer nerf. **The OP stuff IS getting reviewed/nerfed** in upcoming balance patch. Whether that balance patch is enough is another story. But dev will have to address those problem head on, not like many people who find whatever ways they can get their hands on. Simply put, even if we keep this we won't address real spam issues. We only leave an ugly crutch that defeats the purpose of clones. Past those silly discussions, thank you Ben for looking at this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 > @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said: > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > Because you know, revealing the mesmer during combat is SO bad. > > > > Oh boo kitten hoo, now they won't rely on clone spamming as much and they will actually have to move, instead of afking on greatsword. > > > > Sheesh. > > > > Mesmer can truly do no wrong. > > This defeats one of the design purposes of mesmer clones. There's other ways to figure out the real clone, use those. This should be re-evaluated because Mesmers have a ton of survival tools, skills and builds, and are capable of producing a lot of burst damage... Every second counts in pvp and wvw combat, and your team is big on visual identifiers for combat (see the recent Necro shade alert... that already had big red warning circles prior), so maybe time to rethink (a lot of) things over for the competitive side of the game. Even if you changed phantasms and clones to be different than the user, you’d still have stuff like the crazy damage burst of 22,999 damage in 3 seconds from stealth on my full toughness trailblazer Necro... and the subsequent Mesmer stealth and port away. And the Mesmer 24k in 3 seconds, from stealth, against my full toughness trailblazer Necro... And the tanky survival builds coupled with a bunch of stealth and positioning skills... From a thread I made... > @"Swagger.1459" said: > I know people in spvp and wvw were very concerned about tells for immobile shade actions, that have big red circles around them that enemies can dodge out of easily, but are these super bursts from stealth not a “tell” concern? How about all those duplicate mesmer clones, that players have to waste precious seconds sorting though visually to find the player target, get changed to transparent illusions so players have the appropriate tells that visually distinguish between player and AI? > > > > > > As of now, necro is the overall slowest casting class, with the least amount of positional skills, yet we get changes to tells and more nerfs to conditions? You know that power necro spvp and wvw builds are not anywhere near a good place, necro has the poorest melee capabilities (and a host of other major issues not being addressed)... and we get nerfs without any critical improvements? > > > > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippage.1983 Posted March 8, 2018 Author Share Posted March 8, 2018 Rip. Sorry guys I ruined everyones fun. I was wishing it was intentional design and wanted to give tips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilyanna.9361 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > This dev answer is golden O_O> @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > Because you know, revealing the mesmer during combat is SO bad. > > > > > > Oh boo kitten hoo, now they won't rely on clone spamming as much and they will actually have to move, instead of afking on greatsword. > > > > > > Sheesh. > > > > > > Mesmer can truly do no wrong. > > > > Wew... if you still struggle to find real one after all this years... thats sad > > Right? You know it’s bad when a dev answers like that. Not sure what class/mode Ben plays but that’s by far the best dev response I can think of How was that the best? It's not a surprise how "easy" it would be to find a mesmer. Tab-target, watch the buffs above the mesmer, etc. etc. So I say again, what's the point of removing the feature? Mesmer lost its purpose to try and 'trick' a foe. They are nothing more than pink burst magicians that clutter the screen with copies of themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 > @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said: > the real clone Maybe Ben was the illusion all along! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > This dev answer is golden O_O> @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > Because you know, revealing the mesmer during combat is SO bad. > > > > > > > > Oh boo kitten hoo, now they won't rely on clone spamming as much and they will actually have to move, instead of afking on greatsword. > > > > > > > > Sheesh. > > > > > > > > Mesmer can truly do no wrong. > > > > > > Wew... if you still struggle to find real one after all this years... thats sad > > > > Right? You know it’s bad when a dev answers like that. Not sure what class/mode Ben plays but that’s by far the best dev response I can think of > > How was that the best? > It's not a surprise how "easy" it would be to find a mesmer. > Tab-target, watch the buffs above the mesmer, etc. etc. > > So I say again, what's the point of removing the feature? > Mesmer lost its purpose to try and 'trick' a foe. They are nothing more than pink burst magicians that clutter the screen with copies of themselves. I really really really can find any word to describe you on this one tbh ... lets say politely ,you are clearly not very smart ... aside from what this dev said ,which is 100% correct answer ... why would we need such a garbage elite spec as mirage after EM nerf if real mesmer would have huge healthbar always about its head ? Veri nice feature ... i actually vote to keep it with condition of making every clone of mesmer invulnerable until its shattered or mesmer went too far away ! xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyPuppy.8970 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Clones tend to have a full hb when they pop anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 > @"BABE.6384" said: > YES "CLICKING" the player, I have yet to see this "almost guarantee" of the tab system. > The tab options are "nearest player" or "next player", I use next normally and have tried both plenty. > I just sat in the arena w/ a mesmer that made 5+ illusions and at NO TIME. was the mesmer the first thing tabbed to. Hmm maybe you should have spent more time figuring out ways to counter and identify rather than going in trying to prove a moot point. > You must have a special tab target. My grandmother always said I was special. > > You think I should tab target thru however many clones are closer to me than the mesmer every single time mes uses a detarget skill? Yeah because you can quickly find the Mesmer by the buffs. You would know this if you took the time to learn the class. > > > Mesmer has always been able to have more than 3 illusions if you shattered then made more before they arrive at the target. > Now however, it is braindead easy to be able to produce MORE than the previous maximum amounts. > So yes. you can have more than 6 illusions currently. No where did I say you couldn’t have more than six illusions. I said clones and we are limited to 3. This goes back to that learning thing I mentioned. > > You defending Bunker mesmer is a joke. THAT IS WHAT KILLED PRO LEAGUES viewership and all chances of the game having more International Tournaments No, I believe I said it was gutted. This is a reading comprehension skill maybe learn it as well? Also, Chrono bunker didn’t kill the pro leagues. It already had poor viewership, limited team participation, and a game mode no one could watch or understand unless they actively played the game. That, not Chrono bunker, lead to the demise of ESL gw2. > > Confusion deserved to be gutted in pvp and never should have been a non pve change in the first place. No it should have been reverted to its intial design which did good damage on skill use. Now i can sneeze and do more damage than confusion can. It, along with torment, should do high damage as a punishment for no cleansing. > Not every single class needs to OR WILL have a place in a zerg. It is just fine in small scale. And that’s fine. However, small scale is not, nor will be, a supported game mode in WvW. Dueling isn’t not a game mode. So whether it’s fine in small scale is a moot point when that’s not how that mode is balanced. > Idc about pve. this is pvp forum. If you don’t care you shouldn’t have brought up game wide then. You introduced the line of reasoning, I followed it. Don’t back out just because it now doesn’t benefit you. > > 0 jealousy, I don't think any class needs or needed any full rework. Just more consistent balance updates. Luckily that’s your opinion and you don’t work at Anet. All the classes need to be balanced properly and at this point in the game needs a fresh start. Rev especially needs looked at. > Multiple mesmer playstyles thrive in pvp and have for years. > And once again you’re wrong. Or conveniently forgetting that until Chrono Mesmer only one build viable for high level play and it was hard countered by thief. Being a portal monkey doesn’t mean you’re thriving. Do I need to start linking footage of helseth stating that Mesmer wasn’t a viable profession in top tier play? Or go back and find the stats of just how badly Mesmer performed unless you were Misha, helseth, or Supcutie? Bottom line is Mesmer is in a good spot right now. You need to l2p. And Anet needs to bring the other classes up and I’m sure they are working on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > This dev answer is golden O_O> @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > Because you know, revealing the mesmer during combat is SO bad. > > > > > > > > Oh boo kitten hoo, now they won't rely on clone spamming as much and they will actually have to move, instead of afking on greatsword. > > > > > > > > Sheesh. > > > > > > > > Mesmer can truly do no wrong. > > > > > > Wew... if you still struggle to find real one after all this years... thats sad > > > > Right? You know it’s bad when a dev answers like that. Not sure what class/mode Ben plays but that’s by far the best dev response I can think of > > How was that the best? > It's not a surprise how "easy" it would be to find a mesmer. > Tab-target, watch the buffs above the mesmer, etc. etc. > > So I say again, what's the point of removing the feature? > Mesmer lost its purpose to try and 'trick' a foe. They are nothing more than pink burst magicians that clutter the screen with copies of themselves. You’ve stated it’s easy to spot. Then why do you need a crutch to help you? Whether you believe Mesmer lost its purpose is beside the fact. It shouldn’t have had it happen, Anet’s said it wasn’t supposed to either. That in itself is enough a reason to fix a bug, not a feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 > @"BABE.6384" said: > There was tons of ways to keep track of the real mes > Until ANET decided lets have mesmer make TWICE the amount of illusions they ever could during the entirety of this game. > Along with giving them a new type of skill that literally says *breaks enemy targeting* > > Its a pain in the kitten to try to click on the mesmer while 8 clones + him are running at you and its completely laughable to suggest that it isnt. > Have you fought them since the rework with a single target weapon that needs a target to use skills ben? > > Mesmer is overtuned ever since they decided to waste resources redoing a class that was performing just fine gamewide. > Play DH, kite and kill all the clones in 1-2 hits. Done. Play Yolosmith, don’t care about clones as you cleave a path of destruction across the field with your holoforge tearing every clone apart. Done. Play scourge and keep them all perma crippled so they all die before they get close. Done. There’s more but I’m tired and can’t be bothered holding your hand. Needless to say unless it’s got superspeed on shatter AoE cripple/chill renders clones useless and AoE will obliterate clones as they have about 5k health. Killing clone has always been the most effective way to neuter a mesmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teletric.3821 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Mesmers just clutter up my screen, and as a person with ADD it really puts me at a heavy disadvantage. It's not about skill for me, it's about a disadvantage I was born with. It also doesn't help that my medication runs out by the time I get home to play GW2. Thick health bars have really made it easier for me to deal with this, and now that I know they aren't intentional, I'm very disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitta.3657 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 > @"Teletric.3821" said: > Mesmers just clutter up my screen, and as a person with ADD it really puts me at a heavy disadvantage. It's not about skill for me, it's about a disadvantage I was born with. It also doesn't help that my medication runs out by the time I get home to play GW2. Thick health bars have really made it easier for me to deal with this, and now that I know they aren't intentional, I'm very disappointed. ADD/ADHD is not a valid excuse, I know... I have it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithilwen.1529 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 > @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said: > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > Because you know, revealing the mesmer during combat is SO bad. > > > > Oh boo kitten hoo, now they won't rely on clone spamming as much and they will actually have to move, instead of afking on greatsword. > > > > Sheesh. > > > > Mesmer can truly do no wrong. > > This defeats one of the design purposes of mesmer clones. There's other ways to figure out the real clone, use those. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teletric.3821 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 > @"Kitta.3657" said: > > @"Teletric.3821" said: > > Mesmers just clutter up my screen, and as a person with ADD it really puts me at a heavy disadvantage. It's not about skill for me, it's about a disadvantage I was born with. It also doesn't help that my medication runs out by the time I get home to play GW2. Thick health bars have really made it easier for me to deal with this, and now that I know they aren't intentional, I'm very disappointed. > > ADD/ADHD is not a valid excuse, I know... I have it too. Can you elaborate? Because it does put me at a disadvantage. It's easy to get distracted for me when my screen is cluttered with particle effects and fake enemies. It's one of the reasons why I don't PvP as much as I used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curunen.8729 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 lol, this thread. I'm reassured and grateful at least the devs know the score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svarty.8019 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svarty.8019 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 > @"shippage.1983" said: > a good player should instantly spot Mesmers already so it doesn't really affect the balance of the class. If this was unintended, I hope they keep it because it helps a lot. I say that as Mesmer main as well. So you admit that only "good" players are able to compete with mesmer's base abilities? THanks for the confession, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidKami.2867 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 As someone who mainly tab targets, it's really annoying fighting a Mesmer. Even if I mark them with ctrl+t it will go away when they stealth. I'm pretty much forced into using large AoE attacks against Mesmers as tabbing until I find the right target takes too much time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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