Why is Guild Wars the best mmo out there but still not enough

[Leo G.4501]

> @"Cobrakon.3108" said:

> > @"Vivilett.8509" said:

> > The game is awesome ! Has a little bit for everyone , stable population and fast pace pvp

> >

> > Yet, to the vocal minority its not enough,

> >

> > Has there ever been the perfect game? Wow?

>

> Its because other genres do things a lot better than any mmo.

>

> Balance is better in Fighting games like Street Fighter or FPS like Halo, TF2, Counter Strike.

>

> Boss Battles Are better In games designed more for single player or small groups like Dark Souls series.

>

> Games like GTA actually have dynamic events that feel less scripted and can seem to happen randomly.

>

> Every category is somewhat compromised in an mmorpg and I believe there are a few reasons:

>

> 1. An mmorpg tries to do everything instead of having more focus like other genres.

> 2. There are network limitations, including badwidth that make things harder to accomplish in mmorpgs. Population of the game plays a role.

> 3. Having so many people playing at once makes it hard to balance and code

> 4. The old RPGs And MMORPG's set a trend which still happens today where skills fell less real, less impactful. They followed the Final Fantasy, Dragon Warrior, Turn based games. MMORPGS would have been in a better spot had they followed more of the real-time/ action mechanics and strategies like Secret of Mana, Zelda, Terranigma, etc etc.

>

> Hopefully MMORPG's of the future will catch up in other areas like other genres, and I have to give GW2 credit for trying to make dynamic events dynamic and somewhat random, but I think they just found it hard to implement. They also added the dodge mechanic which was another step in the right direction. So out of all the other MMORPG"s currently, I think ANET's original mission for GW2 came the closest to being able to leave some of the less desirable things from the MMORPG market. It was not a complete failure, I call it a partial success. Hopefully they realize some of the stuff they wanted to implement some years down the road.

 

MMOs have always been a compromise since the beginning. The difference is, back in the early days of MMORPGs, the concept of building up a character that interacts in an open environment with other players in real-time was a newish concept, so much so that there were individuals who thought they had the concept patented and tried to sue several MMORPGs. But in the current year, it's common place and the compromises that were necessary back then are practically all compensated for.

 

Rather than look out for the health of a game genre, it's more productive to express what game you want to play and what should/shouldn't be in it. Since connectivity and speeds are becoming less of a bottleneck, the old version of MMORPGs that players long to have regurgitated to them aren't necessary or sustainable. Although, one day, maybe players will be able to easily run and maintain current online games like we can with older versions of games so you won't need to have a corporation bottle feed this type of content all the time.

[Talindra.4958]

Best mmo?? Mm mmmm hmmmm...

Not bad not bad I guess since I played a lot of it xD

[Ashantara.8731]

I want to start by saying that this is the GW2 forum, and comparing with other MMORPGs isn't very constructive nor helpful. Let's focus on this game.

 

Many things about the game have been improved by ANet, the latest episode being an excellent example for that. They have finally found a way to transmit a story's excitement without limiting it to the difficulty level of a fight or the "level of epicness". There have been many other improvements, too, but I really don't want to delve into every single thing but rather get to the point, which is:

 

**The problem is that ANet has failed to implement all of their wonderful improvements into previous, old content.** I just played through the original campaign again, and boy, was I bored as usual. It's not due to the story, which in itself is great (and some missions are still giving me goosebumps), but due to the fact that, back then, ANet still did not know how to present a great story properly. The execution was dull, superficial, and very rudimental in design, the AI is plain awful. (Later they had great execution but stupid story ideas, but that's a different topic.) Also, the old bugs from anno domini still have not been taken care of, maps have not been adjusted for mounts, and so on, and so forth. Then there are things that have been bugging people for ages, like the character selection screen, but those have been completely ignored to this day as well.

 

ANet has made it clear that they prefer to put their resources mainly into the production of new content rather than sitting down for a couple of months and smoothing out all the aforementioned issues. And _that's_ why people keep complaining, not because they don't like the game per se or don't appreciate any improvements made.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

> @"Leo G.4501" said:

> The problem lies with the population. The issue is one of expectations. If a game has a particular experience (or set of experiences) it wants to provide the player, the game is still expected to provide a laundry list of other features which can have a large effect on the end product and the intended goals of those supplied experience. A developer might have a focus on narrative and group guild activities but get roped into providing PvP esport activities or large group content that could veer from the intended goal or completely derail the goal. It's just expected to provide these extra features and for the story to go on and on rather than decisively conclude.

>

> Then we ask why people complain or get burnt out or lose interest when the fault lies at our feet. The industry has changed to appease what the majority wants but the majority doesn't know what it wants. Luckily for the industry, their only goal is to profit so as long as that window of opportunity stays open and shifts one way or the other, they will just shift their product in tandum for profit. I can imagine an original creator of their game feeling alienated from their own creation after a time as the creative work grows a mind of its own and decides independently where it wants to go. Then you have a mass of thoughts and ideas with many different types of goals trying to go in different directions with a director supposedly trying to drive this ship with a corporate heel standing on their throat.

>

> Whether the game is "the best" or not is irrelevent, it's how sustainable it is. With how MMOs exist these days, they survive on a whim and can cease to exist or be unplayable. If they stop being sustainable, then that's it. Even if a game is 20th or 100th place in the MMO market, if it can be sustain then it will exist and you will be able to enjoy it.

 

MMO as genre lost its apeal now its shooters and mobas wich sells

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Sylent.3165" said:

> > @"Yamazuki.6073" said:

> > Something to consider, Guild Wars 2 only seems like it is one of the best MMORPGs because almost every other MMORPG is an absolute failure, in addition to the fact the genre hasn't had many major changes despite how old it is. Most MMORPGs have been a copy/paste of older MMORPGs with a different skin, they add absolutely nothing new to the genre, and have zero long term focus for success.

> >

> > Guild Wars 2 has many areas it can improve on, but it lacks the competition in the genre to really have to improve right away. WoW has already peaked due to being too large, FFXIV isn't going to take anything from GW2 at this point, and there's no major MMORPGs being released anytime soon other than more generic Korean grinding simulators that run horribly.

>

> Wow and final fantasy 14 still have more active players then gw2.

>

> Ashes of creation is a western mmo coming out that has high hopes as it's a western game not a Korean horrible grind fest of garbage.

 

AoC won't succeed. It's PvP oriented MMO, a niche within a genre. Warhammer Online was like this and failed.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > The problem lies with the population. The issue is one of expectations. If a game has a particular experience (or set of experiences) it wants to provide the player, the game is still expected to provide a laundry list of other features which can have a large effect on the end product and the intended goals of those supplied experience. A developer might have a focus on narrative and group guild activities but get roped into providing PvP esport activities or large group content that could veer from the intended goal or completely derail the goal. It's just expected to provide these extra features and for the story to go on and on rather than decisively conclude.

> >

> > Then we ask why people complain or get burnt out or lose interest when the fault lies at our feet. The industry has changed to appease what the majority wants but the majority doesn't know what it wants. Luckily for the industry, their only goal is to profit so as long as that window of opportunity stays open and shifts one way or the other, they will just shift their product in tandum for profit. I can imagine an original creator of their game feeling alienated from their own creation after a time as the creative work grows a mind of its own and decides independently where it wants to go. Then you have a mass of thoughts and ideas with many different types of goals trying to go in different directions with a director supposedly trying to drive this ship with a corporate heel standing on their throat.

> >

> > Whether the game is "the best" or not is irrelevent, it's how sustainable it is. With how MMOs exist these days, they survive on a whim and can cease to exist or be unplayable. If they stop being sustainable, then that's it. Even if a game is 20th or 100th place in the MMO market, if it can be sustain then it will exist and you will be able to enjoy it.

>

> MMO as genre lost its apeal now its shooters and mobas wich sells

 

Even they are already in decline as Battle Royale is new champ genre for 12 year olds.

[Biff.5312]

My experience has been that most MMOs start off great, but in an effort to continually grow their user base they have to make decisions that ruin the game for dedicated players. They realize that they're losing most casual players who get easily frustrated by the slightest difficulty in content and quit while still low level, so they eliminate the difficulty. Which means eliminating any possible fun for anyone who actually wants to be engaged by the content. Because the low level stuff is not interesting, it makes levelling an annoying obstacle to be by-passed if possible, rather than being an enjoyable progression. On the other end of their client base, they have to keep adding content for end-game players, which becomes a never-ending cycle of gearing up to play content that rewards you with gear, only to have it made obsolete in the next expansion.

 

To me, GW2 is the best so far because it minimizes crap like the need to farm/grind, the max level cap increases and accompanying gear needs that other games suffer from, and it also offers so much variety in content that you can play quite a lot before you exhaust it all and start itching for improvements. I know some players still race to finish all new content and max out their toons' potential, but to me they're just treating this game as though it was those other MMOs and missing a lot of the fun.

 

But GW2 isn't the best game possible. It solves a lot of the problems I have with other MMOs, but it's still not challenging enough, doesn't offer enough story/endgame focus, so it can feel like you're just adrift once you hit 80 and don't know what to do with yourself. Even so, I'd never go back to any of those other games.

[Leo G.4501]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > The problem lies with the population. The issue is one of expectations. If a game has a particular experience (or set of experiences) it wants to provide the player, the game is still expected to provide a laundry list of other features which can have a large effect on the end product and the intended goals of those supplied experience. A developer might have a focus on narrative and group guild activities but get roped into providing PvP esport activities or large group content that could veer from the intended goal or completely derail the goal. It's just expected to provide these extra features and for the story to go on and on rather than decisively conclude.

> >

> > Then we ask why people complain or get burnt out or lose interest when the fault lies at our feet. The industry has changed to appease what the majority wants but the majority doesn't know what it wants. Luckily for the industry, their only goal is to profit so as long as that window of opportunity stays open and shifts one way or the other, they will just shift their product in tandum for profit. I can imagine an original creator of their game feeling alienated from their own creation after a time as the creative work grows a mind of its own and decides independently where it wants to go. Then you have a mass of thoughts and ideas with many different types of goals trying to go in different directions with a director supposedly trying to drive this ship with a corporate heel standing on their throat.

> >

> > Whether the game is "the best" or not is irrelevent, it's how sustainable it is. With how MMOs exist these days, they survive on a whim and can cease to exist or be unplayable. If they stop being sustainable, then that's it. Even if a game is 20th or 100th place in the MMO market, if it can be sustain then it will exist and you will be able to enjoy it.

>

> MMO as genre lost its apeal now its shooters and mobas wich sells

 

Only in the mainstream sense. I think MMORPGs can still exist and thrive (just look at some of those 10+ year MMORPGs) but won't be sustainable if they are chasing after the newest features. Like for me, I couldn't really give 2 kittens about GW2's lauded twitch combat mechanics and its high action-esque content, for me I just like the races and the voice/personalities they have and had the game gone for an old skool tab-targeted, dice-roll type of gameplay but gave 10x the build options and 2x the race options, I'd have liked the game 500% more.

 

Hell, if NCSoft hadn't shut down CoH so I could just play both (GW2 for when I want combat closer to action combat and CoH when I want to craft personal characters, builds and stories), I'd have been 45,000% more happy with that.

[Vivilett.8509]

> @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > The problem lies with the population. The issue is one of expectations. If a game has a particular experience (or set of experiences) it wants to provide the player, the game is still expected to provide a laundry list of other features which can have a large effect on the end product and the intended goals of those supplied experience. A developer might have a focus on narrative and group guild activities but get roped into providing PvP esport activities or large group content that could veer from the intended goal or completely derail the goal. It's just expected to provide these extra features and for the story to go on and on rather than decisively conclude.

> > >

> > > Then we ask why people complain or get burnt out or lose interest when the fault lies at our feet. The industry has changed to appease what the majority wants but the majority doesn't know what it wants. Luckily for the industry, their only goal is to profit so as long as that window of opportunity stays open and shifts one way or the other, they will just shift their product in tandum for profit. I can imagine an original creator of their game feeling alienated from their own creation after a time as the creative work grows a mind of its own and decides independently where it wants to go. Then you have a mass of thoughts and ideas with many different types of goals trying to go in different directions with a director supposedly trying to drive this ship with a corporate heel standing on their throat.

> > >

> > > Whether the game is "the best" or not is irrelevent, it's how sustainable it is. With how MMOs exist these days, they survive on a whim and can cease to exist or be unplayable. If they stop being sustainable, then that's it. Even if a game is 20th or 100th place in the MMO market, if it can be sustain then it will exist and you will be able to enjoy it.

> >

> > MMO as genre lost its apeal now its shooters and mobas wich sells

>

> Only in the mainstream sense. I think MMORPGs can still exist and thrive (just look at some of those 10+ year MMORPGs) but won't be sustainable if they are chasing after the newest features. Like for me, I couldn't really give 2 kittens about GW2's lauded twitch combat mechanics and its high action-esque content, for me I just like the races and the voice/personalities they have and had the game gone for an old skool tab-targeted, dice-roll type of gameplay but gave 10x the build options and 2x the race options, I'd have liked the game 500% more.

>

> Hell, if NCSoft hadn't shut down CoH so I could just play both (GW2 for when I want combat closer to action combat and CoH when I want to craft personal characters, builds and stories), I'd have been 45,000% more happy with that.

 

COH was really underrated, right out of the box you felt beast and the story was very well done

 

I hope we get a COH 2 esque game in the near future

Many games can thrive at once

[Doctor Hide.6345]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"Sylent.3165" said:

> > > @"Yamazuki.6073" said:

> > > Something to consider, Guild Wars 2 only seems like it is one of the best MMORPGs because almost every other MMORPG is an absolute failure, in addition to the fact the genre hasn't had many major changes despite how old it is. Most MMORPGs have been a copy/paste of older MMORPGs with a different skin, they add absolutely nothing new to the genre, and have zero long term focus for success.

> > >

> > > Guild Wars 2 has many areas it can improve on, but it lacks the competition in the genre to really have to improve right away. WoW has already peaked due to being too large, FFXIV isn't going to take anything from GW2 at this point, and there's no major MMORPGs being released anytime soon other than more generic Korean grinding simulators that run horribly.

> >

> > Wow and final fantasy 14 still have more active players then gw2.

> >

> > Ashes of creation is a western mmo coming out that has high hopes as it's a western game not a Korean horrible grind fest of garbage.

>

> AoC won't succeed. It's PvP oriented MMO, a niche within a genre. Warhammer Online was like this and failed.

 

I agree with you. That is the problem with a lot of the new indie MMOs coming out which turns me off even if they have good concepts. They are all too open world PvP focused which has been proven not to work on the masses. They will all become niche games.

[Vivilett.8509]

> @"Doctor Hide.6345" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > @"Sylent.3165" said:

> > > > @"Yamazuki.6073" said:

> > > > Something to consider, Guild Wars 2 only seems like it is one of the best MMORPGs because almost every other MMORPG is an absolute failure, in addition to the fact the genre hasn't had many major changes despite how old it is. Most MMORPGs have been a copy/paste of older MMORPGs with a different skin, they add absolutely nothing new to the genre, and have zero long term focus for success.

> > > >

> > > > Guild Wars 2 has many areas it can improve on, but it lacks the competition in the genre to really have to improve right away. WoW has already peaked due to being too large, FFXIV isn't going to take anything from GW2 at this point, and there's no major MMORPGs being released anytime soon other than more generic Korean grinding simulators that run horribly.

> > >

> > > Wow and final fantasy 14 still have more active players then gw2.

> > >

> > > Ashes of creation is a western mmo coming out that has high hopes as it's a western game not a Korean horrible grind fest of garbage.

> >

> > AoC won't succeed. It's PvP oriented MMO, a niche within a genre. Warhammer Online was like this and failed.

>

> I agree with you. That is the problem with a lot of the new indie MMOs coming out which turns me off even if they have good concepts. They are all too open world PvP focused which has been proven not to work on the masses. They will all become niche games.

 

Wasn't Vanilla wow open world pvp?

[Doctor Hide.6345]

> @"Vivilett.8509" said:

> > @"Doctor Hide.6345" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > @"Sylent.3165" said:

> > > > > @"Yamazuki.6073" said:

> > > > > Something to consider, Guild Wars 2 only seems like it is one of the best MMORPGs because almost every other MMORPG is an absolute failure, in addition to the fact the genre hasn't had many major changes despite how old it is. Most MMORPGs have been a copy/paste of older MMORPGs with a different skin, they add absolutely nothing new to the genre, and have zero long term focus for success.

> > > > >

> > > > > Guild Wars 2 has many areas it can improve on, but it lacks the competition in the genre to really have to improve right away. WoW has already peaked due to being too large, FFXIV isn't going to take anything from GW2 at this point, and there's no major MMORPGs being released anytime soon other than more generic Korean grinding simulators that run horribly.

> > > >

> > > > Wow and final fantasy 14 still have more active players then gw2.

> > > >

> > > > Ashes of creation is a western mmo coming out that has high hopes as it's a western game not a Korean horrible grind fest of garbage.

> > >

> > > AoC won't succeed. It's PvP oriented MMO, a niche within a genre. Warhammer Online was like this and failed.

> >

> > I agree with you. That is the problem with a lot of the new indie MMOs coming out which turns me off even if they have good concepts. They are all too open world PvP focused which has been proven not to work on the masses. They will all become niche games.

>

> Wasn't Vanilla wow open world pvp?

 

On PvP servers they had it, but most of the population was on PvE servers with a few on RP servers. PvP servers population wise have never been that big with PvE servers dominating it.

[Raizel.8175]

> @"SoulSin.5682" said:

 

> GW2 is *Great* at few things, but it isn't bad at anything.

> Problems like class balance or some game modes getting less attention exist on every MMo.

> At least ANET has proven these past few years to pay attention to all game modes, slowly, fixing the game and improving the gameplay. Plus we do get balance patches every 6 months or so meanwhile some Korean games have the same valid builds and meta classes since release. They only touch balance on the new expansion (that you have to pay, grind your characters again, equip the last raid set again, etc).

 

I have to disagree with this point. ANet never really adressed PvE-balance and that's why we have omnipotent classes like Chrono and Druid, which is also a factor why raid-content is so bad in this game due to its nearly non-existent accessibility. True, the rest of the game is good, but the way they implemented raid-content is just horrible.

 

[ScottBroChill.3254]

GW2 thrives because it doesn't have a lot of contenders in the free-to-play segment and all in all it has a lot of solid features. But it has a lot of shortfalls with that being it doesn't really have a target audience or a focus. They are trying to make a game to satisfy everyone and that can sometimes fall flat on its face because they can't fully deliver what everyone wants. If they had a more narrow focus it would be easier to achieve and balance between classes would probably be improved, but they are always biting off more than they can chew and spreading themselves thin. At first they wanted to be an MLG with competitive pvp, then that didn't work out and they ditched pvp ever since. They never wanted raids but decided to put them in because they realized that loyal players want raids and end-game content and that the game can't survive alone with casual players. You need dedicated, hard-core players to keep an mmo going. They also didn't want class roles, they wanted everyone to be a self-sustaining dps machine, but that didn't work out either especially in team play content. So, they added more ways of specializing and tweaking builds. Classes are also sorta spread too thin in terms of concepts and flavor. They have too many half-baked ideas for classes that it can sometimes make a class not seem fully fleshed out or have an identity.

 

That being said, the game is somehow still solid so I have to give big props to anet for being able to accomplish that. But there are so many obvious shortfalls and anets inability to decide on a direction or make trade-offs in design can sometimes make the game suffer in terms of rewarding play and reasons to keep playing. But I'm still playing so it can't be that bad hahah I do love the game.

[witcher.3197]

> @"SoulSin.5682" said:

> Perfect MMo game? Never.

>

> I still recommend GW2 because of the casual start and the fact that ANET has being doing an active job on QoL and balance since release.

> (Plus the fact that this game doesn't have annoying stuff like raising level caps and holy trinity).

 

Sometimes it feels like we are playing different GW2s

[Sidartha.9512]

The only MMO that approached perfection IMO was EQ1. It wasn't perfect obviously but they got so much right with that game. I went back a couple years ago and played on the P99 time locked server and was reminded of just how great that game was. Even today the game mechanics hold up and are very good despite the outdated graphics.

 

I think a lot of what they got so right was not even by design but by accident. The class selection, the difficulty, the class interdependence, the social interaction/interdependence was all so well done. It was just a great framework or foundation for progression and social interaction with other players that created countless hours of fun and excitement and even drama. Vanilla WoW came pretty close as well. Being so dependent on other people made the game so engaging but that was also part of its biggest flaw as well.

[Leo G.4501]

> @"Vivilett.8509" said:

> > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > > The problem lies with the population. The issue is one of expectations. If a game has a particular experience (or set of experiences) it wants to provide the player, the game is still expected to provide a laundry list of other features which can have a large effect on the end product and the intended goals of those supplied experience. A developer might have a focus on narrative and group guild activities but get roped into providing PvP esport activities or large group content that could veer from the intended goal or completely derail the goal. It's just expected to provide these extra features and for the story to go on and on rather than decisively conclude.

> > > >

> > > > Then we ask why people complain or get burnt out or lose interest when the fault lies at our feet. The industry has changed to appease what the majority wants but the majority doesn't know what it wants. Luckily for the industry, their only goal is to profit so as long as that window of opportunity stays open and shifts one way or the other, they will just shift their product in tandum for profit. I can imagine an original creator of their game feeling alienated from their own creation after a time as the creative work grows a mind of its own and decides independently where it wants to go. Then you have a mass of thoughts and ideas with many different types of goals trying to go in different directions with a director supposedly trying to drive this ship with a corporate heel standing on their throat.

> > > >

> > > > Whether the game is "the best" or not is irrelevent, it's how sustainable it is. With how MMOs exist these days, they survive on a whim and can cease to exist or be unplayable. If they stop being sustainable, then that's it. Even if a game is 20th or 100th place in the MMO market, if it can be sustain then it will exist and you will be able to enjoy it.

> > >

> > > MMO as genre lost its apeal now its shooters and mobas wich sells

> >

> > Only in the mainstream sense. I think MMORPGs can still exist and thrive (just look at some of those 10+ year MMORPGs) but won't be sustainable if they are chasing after the newest features. Like for me, I couldn't really give 2 kittens about GW2's lauded twitch combat mechanics and its high action-esque content, for me I just like the races and the voice/personalities they have and had the game gone for an old skool tab-targeted, dice-roll type of gameplay but gave 10x the build options and 2x the race options, I'd have liked the game 500% more.

> >

> > Hell, if NCSoft hadn't shut down CoH so I could just play both (GW2 for when I want combat closer to action combat and CoH when I want to craft personal characters, builds and stories), I'd have been 45,000% more happy with that.

>

> COH was really underrated, right out of the box you felt beast and the story was very well done

>

> I hope we get a COH 2 esque game in the near future

> Many games can thrive at once

 

I fear that it won't happen because so often game devs are roped into keep adding more and more features that keep up with the new hottness.

 

I guess the different MMORPGs have their niche that makes them "perfect" for a particular audience. Someone above mentioned how EQ1 was near perfect for them but I bet if I played it I'd feel just as limited and underwhelmed even disregarding the graphics (although I heard it has quite a few race choices to play as). It still doesn't hold a candle, IMO, to CoH where I can make my own race and powers and even going so far as to make my own enemy factions (with their own looks, powers, story and dialog) and story arcs or play other players' arcs and experience their creativity.

 

But CoH was far from a perfect game, as much of the content was quite repetative and heavily instanced.

[Sidartha.9512]

> @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > @"Vivilett.8509" said:

> > > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > > > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > > > The problem lies with the population. The issue is one of expectations. If a game has a particular experience (or set of experiences) it wants to provide the player, the game is still expected to provide a laundry list of other features which can have a large effect on the end product and the intended goals of those supplied experience. A developer might have a focus on narrative and group guild activities but get roped into providing PvP esport activities or large group content that could veer from the intended goal or completely derail the goal. It's just expected to provide these extra features and for the story to go on and on rather than decisively conclude.

> > > > >

> > > > > Then we ask why people complain or get burnt out or lose interest when the fault lies at our feet. The industry has changed to appease what the majority wants but the majority doesn't know what it wants. Luckily for the industry, their only goal is to profit so as long as that window of opportunity stays open and shifts one way or the other, they will just shift their product in tandum for profit. I can imagine an original creator of their game feeling alienated from their own creation after a time as the creative work grows a mind of its own and decides independently where it wants to go. Then you have a mass of thoughts and ideas with many different types of goals trying to go in different directions with a director supposedly trying to drive this ship with a corporate heel standing on their throat.

> > > > >

> > > > > Whether the game is "the best" or not is irrelevent, it's how sustainable it is. With how MMOs exist these days, they survive on a whim and can cease to exist or be unplayable. If they stop being sustainable, then that's it. Even if a game is 20th or 100th place in the MMO market, if it can be sustain then it will exist and you will be able to enjoy it.

> > > >

> > > > MMO as genre lost its apeal now its shooters and mobas wich sells

> > >

> > > Only in the mainstream sense. I think MMORPGs can still exist and thrive (just look at some of those 10+ year MMORPGs) but won't be sustainable if they are chasing after the newest features. Like for me, I couldn't really give 2 kittens about GW2's lauded twitch combat mechanics and its high action-esque content, for me I just like the races and the voice/personalities they have and had the game gone for an old skool tab-targeted, dice-roll type of gameplay but gave 10x the build options and 2x the race options, I'd have liked the game 500% more.

> > >

> > > Hell, if NCSoft hadn't shut down CoH so I could just play both (GW2 for when I want combat closer to action combat and CoH when I want to craft personal characters, builds and stories), I'd have been 45,000% more happy with that.

> >

> > COH was really underrated, right out of the box you felt beast and the story was very well done

> >

> > I hope we get a COH 2 esque game in the near future

> > Many games can thrive at once

>

> I fear that it won't happen because so often game devs are roped into keep adding more and more features that keep up with the new hottness.

>

> I guess the different MMORPGs have their niche that makes them "perfect" for a particular audience. Someone above mentioned how EQ1 was near perfect for them but I bet if I played it I'd feel just as limited and underwhelmed even disregarding the graphics (although I heard it has quite a few race choices to play as). It still doesn't hold a candle, IMO, to CoH where I can make my own race and powers and even going so far as to make my own enemy factions (with their own looks, powers, story and dialog) and story arcs or play other players' arcs and experience their creativity.

>

> But CoH was far from a perfect game, as much of the content was quite repetative and heavily instanced.

 

CoH was a pretty good game. You could spend hours just doing character creation. However, like you mentioned it wasn't very deep and became sort of repetitive.

[sorudo.9054]

> @"Abakk.9176" said:

> > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > every single person i talk to ether tried GW2 but hate it or just don't care enough to leave WoW, if anything GW2 is the most off putting game i have ever seen.

>

> If there is anything i find 'off putting' it's the crummy way WoW tried to copy-paste the scaled leveling process in a halfbaked effort to restore some ejoyment to 90% of their game.

>

> Well at least it finally gave me the push to end the torture and go GW2 fulltime, so it actually did have some use :)

>

>

>

>

 

it does, it made me enjoy WoW more then GW2 because they do nothing about all the toxicity in all the good parts.

i have yet to get any armor from dungeons even after 5 years because of this and let's just forget about raiding, i have only entered the underworld alone just to see how it looks like.

 

if and when they ban all the 3rd party tools to check up on other players and balance all professions properly then i might take GW2 serious again, till then it will remain an off putting game.

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > @"Abakk.9176" said:

> > > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > every single person i talk to ether tried GW2 but hate it or just don't care enough to leave WoW, if anything GW2 is the most off putting game i have ever seen.

> >

> > If there is anything i find 'off putting' it's the crummy way WoW tried to copy-paste the scaled leveling process in a halfbaked effort to restore some ejoyment to 90% of their game.

> >

> > Well at least it finally gave me the push to end the torture and go GW2 fulltime, so it actually did have some use :)

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> it does, it made me enjoy WoW more then GW2 because they do nothing about all the toxicity in all the good parts.

> i have yet to get any armor from dungeons even after 5 years because of this and let's just forget about raiding, i have only entered the underworld alone just to see how it looks like.

>

> if and when they ban all the 3rd party tools to check up on other players and balance all professions properly then i might take GW2 serious again, till then it will remain an off putting game.

 

Wait... In the same post you lauded WoW, and criticized GW2 for third party tools? That's hillarious!! No seriously... GW2 has like 3 3rd party tools, WoW is barely playable without having your screen full of addons.

[juno.1840]

GW2 is a good product, but I think it tries to do too much. It's not great at any one thing. The player base (imo) doesn't play every aspect of the game. Instead I feel every player focuses on just a few areas. At a gross level you have PVE, PVP and WVW. You can further decompose PVE into sub categories like Fractals, Living Story, Raids, etc.

 

Personally I play WvW almost exclusively. I get very frustrated when I see a lack of updates/progress on that game mode.

[mauried.5608]

I often wonder why people play games they dont like playing, and then continuously complain about how bad the game they dont like is .

 

[Westenev.5289]

Everyone has their own idea of perfect. If we don't complain, how can we ever receive what we want?

[Goettel.4389]

To me the "best MMO" would not only offer great random open-world group content (check) and leveling (check), but also great dungeons (WoW), PvP (none) and housing (RIP Wildstar).

[FrizzFreston.5290]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> Gw 2 having no trinity is a lie it got roles like controll(tank)support(healer buffer)dps (damage) they only changed the names but generally mmos are not succesfull now days gw2 is getting old (engine wise)

 

Not really a trinity then. If anything its tank (if aggro exist), CC, support, healer, dps (sometimes distinction between condi dps and physical dps needs to be made)

 

Its not like you need all at all times. More often than not its just a player standing in a specific position. Which is what makes gw2 different.