Zagerus.8675 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 At the end of the day we are destroying a.i. that is controlled by a server and any attempt to be elitist about killing stuff in PvE is laughable these days. The community has matured past things like that. The stats are there to be used of course. If a specific stat is efficient on a particular profession and it makes killing said a.i. easier, why not use it? I am ok with minstrel's. We all fight on the same side : D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 Power creep for DPS builds is so huge compared to content requirements, it's okay to use more support to secure content completion instead of relying on dodges every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrag.9740 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > Gear, comps and experience go hand to hand. But id me interested in what exp groups have terrible bs, run misntrel chronos, And double druid. I mean i guess prob someone might want a second druid idk id assume 1 is enough nowdays. I don't know if my group qualifies as exp. Some members have come and gone, but the core group has acquired around 700 LI (most having 100+ LI before forming static) together, all challenge motes except dhuum cm and statues speed achieve.  We run minstrel chronos at some bosses and double druid healers. Although tbh, this is mostly because we only really care about wing 5 at this point. Minstrel chronos are nice for SH imo, and usually one of the druids is assigned almost entirely to pushing mobs (I believe he camps long bow but goes into CA in between). For dhuum cm our tank is actually a trailblazers necro (start the epi) and the chronos would just be zerker/commander dps variants. Also only one druid for dhuum cm. But for regular dhuum we usually have 1 minstrel chrono + 2 healer druids. Its not like dps is ever the issue for us at dhuum. I think our lack of caring about w1-4 have lead us to not bothering to reoptimize. When you only have so much time in the day, do you really care about re-optimizing your vg comp after every balance patch? I mean, eventually you reach a point where it just seems pointless to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itz Jay.8941 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 > @"Zlater.6789" said: > Hi guys, I've been watching and observing and lately I've been making some observations that are really concerning. What is most concerning is that these observations do not apply only to pugs, but very much to some experienced raid statics as well. > > 1. Healer only players. > 2. Banner Slave Warriors doing terrible DPS. > 3. Double Healing Druid Comps in wings 1-4. > 4. Non-tanking chronos using minstrels. > 5. Druids using minstrels. > > This isn't applicable to raids only though, in fractals I observe: > > 1. Minstrel Chronomancers > 2. Healing Tempests > 3. Shaman's Scourges (ok this sort of thing has always been a problem with necros) > > Guys are we really ok with this? Am I the only one seeing this more now than ever, or am I crazy? Yeah ok you can increase DPS by swapping one druid for a 20-30k dps increase but seriously, what pugs have you been in that actually have players that can avoid mechanics and dodge or have chronos who can aegis share everything important so a weaver doesn't need to use his healing skill mid rotation.  Please tell me what I am missing, cause it don't matter how much li I ask for, 95% of the pugs I run with would be incapable without two heal druids. What you are talking about is elitist stuff for pre mades. In pugs we take two druids so we can guarantee we won't have any problems healing over dps rotations and ressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButcherofMalakir.4067 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 > @"Itz Jay.8941" said: > > @"Zlater.6789" said: > > Hi guys, I've been watching and observing and lately I've been making some observations that are really concerning. What is most concerning is that these observations do not apply only to pugs, but very much to some experienced raid statics as well. > > > > 1. Healer only players. > > 2. Banner Slave Warriors doing terrible DPS. > > 3. Double Healing Druid Comps in wings 1-4. > > 4. Non-tanking chronos using minstrels. > > 5. Druids using minstrels. > > > > This isn't applicable to raids only though, in fractals I observe: > > > > 1. Minstrel Chronomancers > > 2. Healing Tempests > > 3. Shaman's Scourges (ok this sort of thing has always been a problem with necros) > > > > Guys are we really ok with this? Am I the only one seeing this more now than ever, or am I crazy? > > Yeah ok you can increase DPS by swapping one druid for a 20-30k dps increase but seriously, what pugs have you been in that actually have players that can avoid mechanics and dodge or have chronos who can aegis share everything important so a weaver doesn't need to use his healing skill mid rotation. > > Please tell me what I am missing, cause it don't matter how much li I ask for, 95% of the pugs I run with would be incapable without two heal druids. What you are talking about is elitist stuff for pre mades. In pugs we take two druids so we can guarantee we won't have any problems healing over dps rotations and ressing. Actualy meta chrono doesnt play domination most of the time -> no aegis share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eramonster.2718 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 I don't see why not but it's up to the group's decision whether to accept it. If they are just in need of supportive heal+boons and don't mind the dps, go ahead imo. Another alternative would be Harrier's stat if they don't need the toughness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutchRiders.2871 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 I dont like the overhealing but the downtime from swapping roles/classes while pugging is worse. I rather just list for a second healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindcircus.1506 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 > @"Zlater.6789" said: > Hi guys, I've been watching and observing and lately I've been making some observations that are really concerning. What is most concerning is that these observations do not apply only to pugs, but very much to some experienced raid statics as well. > > 1. Healer only players. > 2. Banner Slave Warriors doing terrible DPS. > 3. Double Healing Druid Comps in wings 1-4. > 4. Non-tanking chronos using minstrels. > 5. Druids using minstrels. > > This isn't applicable to raids only though, in fractals I observe: > > 1. Minstrel Chronomancers > 2. Healing Tempests > 3. Shaman's Scourges (ok this sort of thing has always been a problem with necros) > > Guys are we really ok with this? Am I the only one seeing this more now than ever, or am I crazy? What concerns me is that you are somehow able to see PUGs gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > @"Zlater.6789" said: > > Hi guys, I've been watching and observing and lately I've been making some observations that are really concerning. What is most concerning is that these observations do not apply only to pugs, but very much to some experienced raid statics as well. > > > > 1. Healer only players. > > 2. Banner Slave Warriors doing terrible DPS. > > 3. Double Healing Druid Comps in wings 1-4. > > 4. Non-tanking chronos using minstrels. > > 5. Druids using minstrels. > > > > This isn't applicable to raids only though, in fractals I observe: > > > > 1. Minstrel Chronomancers > > 2. Healing Tempests > > 3. Shaman's Scourges (ok this sort of thing has always been a problem with necros) > > > > Guys are we really ok with this? Am I the only one seeing this more now than ever, or am I crazy? > > What concerns me is that you are somehow able to see PUGs gear. I wouldn't jump to conclusions about how he received his information. It's very possible he just asked people to ping their gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry.5713 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > @"Zlater.6789" said: > > > Hi guys, I've been watching and observing and lately I've been making some observations that are really concerning. What is most concerning is that these observations do not apply only to pugs, but very much to some experienced raid statics as well. > > > > > > 1. Healer only players. > > > 2. Banner Slave Warriors doing terrible DPS. > > > 3. Double Healing Druid Comps in wings 1-4. > > > 4. Non-tanking chronos using minstrels. > > > 5. Druids using minstrels. > > > > > > This isn't applicable to raids only though, in fractals I observe: > > > > > > 1. Minstrel Chronomancers > > > 2. Healing Tempests > > > 3. Shaman's Scourges (ok this sort of thing has always been a problem with necros) > > > > > > Guys are we really ok with this? Am I the only one seeing this more now than ever, or am I crazy? > > > > What concerns me is that you are somehow able to see PUGs gear. > > I wouldn't jump to conclusions about how he received his information. It's very possible he just asked people to ping their gear. How hard do you have to try to pay no attention to not be able to tell the difference between healing druids and Viper druids or DPS weavers and healing tempests. Not to mention DPS meters and the fact that people tell you what they prefer to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 > @"Henry.5713" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > @"Zlater.6789" said: > > > > Hi guys, I've been watching and observing and lately I've been making some observations that are really concerning. What is most concerning is that these observations do not apply only to pugs, but very much to some experienced raid statics as well. > > > > > > > > 1. Healer only players. > > > > 2. Banner Slave Warriors doing terrible DPS. > > > > 3. Double Healing Druid Comps in wings 1-4. > > > > 4. Non-tanking chronos using minstrels. > > > > 5. Druids using minstrels. > > > > > > > > This isn't applicable to raids only though, in fractals I observe: > > > > > > > > 1. Minstrel Chronomancers > > > > 2. Healing Tempests > > > > 3. Shaman's Scourges (ok this sort of thing has always been a problem with necros) > > > > > > > > Guys are we really ok with this? Am I the only one seeing this more now than ever, or am I crazy? > > > > > > What concerns me is that you are somehow able to see PUGs gear. > > > > I wouldn't jump to conclusions about how he received his information. It's very possible he just asked people to ping their gear. > > How hard do you have to try to pay no attention to not be able to tell the difference between healing druids and Viper druids or DPS weavers and healing tempests. Not to mention DPS meters and the fact that people tell you what they prefer to play. I think you quoted wrong person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 > @"Zlater.6789" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > Gear, comps and experience go hand to hand. But id me interested in what exp groups have terrible bs, run misntrel chronos, And double druid. I mean i guess prob someone might want a second druid idk id assume 1 is enough nowdays. > > Well you're exactly right, I wonder the same thing. Really this is just my observation on how the landscape is slowly changing. It feels to me like we (just overall) aren't that interested pushing the envelope as individuals anymore. Most of the current raiders _never_ were. Yes, there are those that do exactly that - develop the tactics for new bosses when the new wing is in, try lowmans or speedruns. Majority doesn't really care about all of this - they went in only after safe tactics were already deveoped, and want to minimize the risk as much as possible. They run things like minstrel chronos, double druids (or a third healer on some bosses) because they feel more comfortable with it, and because they _don't_ want any risk - what they are after is a run that is as safe as possible. And that is completely fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptAurellian.9537 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 > @"Zlater.6789" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > Gear, comps and experience go hand to hand. But id me interested in what exp groups have terrible bs, run misntrel chronos, And double druid. I mean i guess prob someone might want a second druid idk id assume 1 is enough nowdays. > > Well you're exactly right, I wonder the same thing. Really this is just my observation on how the landscape is slowly changing. It feels to me like we (just overall) aren't that interested pushing the envelope as individuals anymore. That degree of pushing the envelope has always been restricted to a pretty small minority. Most raiders I've known (not just in GW2) are not interested in speed kill (records), but but just want to get stuff done in a quick and safe way. Sacrificing safety often enough is actually detrimental to speed, since one wipe will cost you more time than you save by running a more offensive setup. So yes, minstrel meta and similar stuff are perfectly fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubi.4136 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 I'll say no, I'm not ok with it. My reasoning is I want them to put my monk main back in...a real, dedicated healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 > @"Zlater.6789" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Zlater.6789" said: > > > Hi guys, I've been watching and observing and lately I've been making some observations that are really concerning. What is most concerning is that these observations do not apply only to pugs, but very much to some experienced raid statics as well. > > > > > > 1. Healer only players. > > > 2. Banner Slave Warriors doing terrible DPS. > > > 3. Double Healing Druid Comps in wings 1-4. > > > 4. Non-tanking chronos using minstrels. > > > 5. Druids using minstrels. > > > > > > This isn't applicable to raids only though, in fractals I observe: > > > > > > 1. Minstrel Chronomancers > > > 2. Healing Tempests > > > 3. Shaman's Scourges (ok this sort of thing has always been a problem with necros) > > > > > > Guys are we really ok with this? Am I the only one seeing this more now than ever, or am I crazy? > > > > Wait a minute! Are you saying there are OTHER ways to do content that AREN'T the accepted meta? Oh noes!!! People playing how they want? Finding other solutions for PVE content? Sounds like we need some action FAST! > > I think you misread because what you're saying doesn't make any sense. I very much notice myself that minstrels is becoming or has already become the meta. > > Then I pose a question, are you ok with minstrels becoming the meta? No I did understand because either way, it's about people 'being OK' with how others play the game. What I find ironic is that meta people thinking there might be something wrong with the meta changing ... like it's never done that before? It changes all the time. I can imagine the conversation: "Are you playing the old meta or the new meta?" "What do you mean, meta is meta right?" "Oh no, the new meta sucks ... they do this and that; it's the FALSE meta. We worship the true meta gods" "I don't get it, the new meta god is better than your old meta god. Watch how fast we can clear Dhuum" "You worship a false meta god!!!! BURN HERETIC!!!" I guess that irony is lost on anyone whose drank too much meta-aid. Carry on.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlater.6789 Posted March 19, 2018 Author Share Posted March 19, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Henry.5713" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > > @"Zlater.6789" said: > > > > > Hi guys, I've been watching and observing and lately I've been making some observations that are really concerning. What is most concerning is that these observations do not apply only to pugs, but very much to some experienced raid statics as well. > > > > > > > > > > 1. Healer only players. > > > > > 2. Banner Slave Warriors doing terrible DPS. > > > > > 3. Double Healing Druid Comps in wings 1-4. > > > > > 4. Non-tanking chronos using minstrels. > > > > > 5. Druids using minstrels. > > > > > > > > > > This isn't applicable to raids only though, in fractals I observe: > > > > > > > > > > 1. Minstrel Chronomancers > > > > > 2. Healing Tempests > > > > > 3. Shaman's Scourges (ok this sort of thing has always been a problem with necros) > > > > > > > > > > Guys are we really ok with this? Am I the only one seeing this more now than ever, or am I crazy? > > > > > > > > What concerns me is that you are somehow able to see PUGs gear. > > > > > > I wouldn't jump to conclusions about how he received his information. It's very possible he just asked people to ping their gear. > > > > How hard do you have to try to pay no attention to not be able to tell the difference between healing druids and Viper druids or DPS weavers and healing tempests. Not to mention DPS meters and the fact that people tell you what they prefer to play. > > I think you quoted wrong person. No he knew what he was saying. Like what is a the difference between a Druid with a SB and torch, a Druid with axe/wh and staff and a Druid with a main hand sword. Like I would even say it's probably unlikely that you will ever see a healing druid doing 10k dps. :tongue:  > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Zlater.6789" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Zlater.6789" said: > > > > Hi guys, I've been watching and observing and lately I've been making some observations that are really concerning. What is most concerning is that these observations do not apply only to pugs, but very much to some experienced raid statics as well. > > > > > > > > 1. Healer only players. > > > > 2. Banner Slave Warriors doing terrible DPS. > > > > 3. Double Healing Druid Comps in wings 1-4. > > > > 4. Non-tanking chronos using minstrels. > > > > 5. Druids using minstrels. > > > > > > > > This isn't applicable to raids only though, in fractals I observe: > > > > > > > > 1. Minstrel Chronomancers > > > > 2. Healing Tempests > > > > 3. Shaman's Scourges (ok this sort of thing has always been a problem with necros) > > > > > > > > Guys are we really ok with this? Am I the only one seeing this more now than ever, or am I crazy? > > > > > > Wait a minute! Are you saying there are OTHER ways to do content that AREN'T the accepted meta? Oh noes!!! People playing how they want? Finding other solutions for PVE content? Sounds like we need some action FAST! > > > > I think you misread because what you're saying doesn't make any sense. I very much notice myself that minstrels is becoming or has already become the meta. > > > > Then I pose a question, are you ok with minstrels becoming the meta? > > No I did understand because either way, it's about people 'being OK' with how others play the game. What I find ironic is that meta people thinking there might be something wrong with the meta changing ... like it's never done that before? It changes all the time. > > I can imagine the conversation: > > "Are you playing the old meta or the new meta?" > "What do you mean, meta is meta right?" > "Oh no, the new meta sucks ... they do this and that; it's the FALSE meta. We worship the true meta gods" > "I don't get it, the new meta god is better than your old meta god. Watch how fast we can clear Dhuum" > "You worship a false meta god!!!! BURN HERETIC!!!" > > I guess that irony is lost on anyone whose drank too much meta-aid. Carry on. >  Youre not ok, clearly you're not ok. Obviously your meta is a lie because it's not helping you be ok. Lol also you're saying it's ok to waste hours of others time wiping on a boss at enrage because you want to "be ok." I don't mean offence by this I'm just wondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eramonster.2718 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 > @"Zlater.6789" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Henry.5713" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > > > @"Zlater.6789" said: > > > > > > Hi guys, I've been watching and observing and lately I've been making some observations that are really concerning. What is most concerning is that these observations do not apply only to pugs, but very much to some experienced raid statics as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Healer only players. > > > > > > 2. Banner Slave Warriors doing terrible DPS. > > > > > > 3. Double Healing Druid Comps in wings 1-4. > > > > > > 4. Non-tanking chronos using minstrels. > > > > > > 5. Druids using minstrels. > > > > > > > > > > > > This isn't applicable to raids only though, in fractals I observe: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Minstrel Chronomancers > > > > > > 2. Healing Tempests > > > > > > 3. Shaman's Scourges (ok this sort of thing has always been a problem with necros) > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys are we really ok with this? Am I the only one seeing this more now than ever, or am I crazy? > > > > > > > > > > What concerns me is that you are somehow able to see PUGs gear. > > > > > > > > I wouldn't jump to conclusions about how he received his information. It's very possible he just asked people to ping their gear. > > > > > > How hard do you have to try to pay no attention to not be able to tell the difference between healing druids and Viper druids or DPS weavers and healing tempests. Not to mention DPS meters and the fact that people tell you what they prefer to play. > > > > I think you quoted wrong person. > > No he knew what he was saying. Like what is a the difference between a Druid with a SB and torch, a Druid with axe/wh and staff and a Druid with a main hand sword. Like I would even say it's probably unlikely that you will ever see a healing druid doing 10k dps. :tongue: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Zlater.6789" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Zlater.6789" said: > > > > > Hi guys, I've been watching and observing and lately I've been making some observations that are really concerning. What is most concerning is that these observations do not apply only to pugs, but very much to some experienced raid statics as well. > > > > > > > > > > 1. Healer only players. > > > > > 2. Banner Slave Warriors doing terrible DPS. > > > > > 3. Double Healing Druid Comps in wings 1-4. > > > > > 4. Non-tanking chronos using minstrels. > > > > > 5. Druids using minstrels. > > > > > > > > > > This isn't applicable to raids only though, in fractals I observe: > > > > > > > > > > 1. Minstrel Chronomancers > > > > > 2. Healing Tempests > > > > > 3. Shaman's Scourges (ok this sort of thing has always been a problem with necros) > > > > > > > > > > Guys are we really ok with this? Am I the only one seeing this more now than ever, or am I crazy? > > > > > > > > Wait a minute! Are you saying there are OTHER ways to do content that AREN'T the accepted meta? Oh noes!!! People playing how they want? Finding other solutions for PVE content? Sounds like we need some action FAST! > > > > > > I think you misread because what you're saying doesn't make any sense. I very much notice myself that minstrels is becoming or has already become the meta. > > > > > > Then I pose a question, are you ok with minstrels becoming the meta? > > > > No I did understand because either way, it's about people 'being OK' with how others play the game. What I find ironic is that meta people thinking there might be something wrong with the meta changing ... like it's never done that before? It changes all the time. > > > > I can imagine the conversation: > > > > "Are you playing the old meta or the new meta?" > > "What do you mean, meta is meta right?" > > "Oh no, the new meta sucks ... they do this and that; it's the FALSE meta. We worship the true meta gods" > > "I don't get it, the new meta god is better than your old meta god. Watch how fast we can clear Dhuum" > > "You worship a false meta god!!!! BURN HERETIC!!!" > > > > I guess that irony is lost on anyone whose drank too much meta-aid. Carry on. > > > > Youre not ok, clearly you're not ok. Obviously your meta is a lie because it's not helping you be ok. > > Lol also you're saying it's ok to waste hours of others time wiping on a boss at enrage because you want to "be ok." I don't mean offence by this I'm just wondering. If Damage is the issue, usually the first thing I look into is 25 might stacks distribution and uptime efficiency. Also depending on how far behind the squad is from hitting the enrage timer. SP minstrel chrono > Semi commander/zerker chrono might not have the dps difference you hoped for/ need. Need more info on the squad composition setup to know more tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 > @"Zlater.6789" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Henry.5713" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > > > @"Zlater.6789" said: > > > > > > Hi guys, I've been watching and observing and lately I've been making some observations that are really concerning. What is most concerning is that these observations do not apply only to pugs, but very much to some experienced raid statics as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Healer only players. > > > > > > 2. Banner Slave Warriors doing terrible DPS. > > > > > > 3. Double Healing Druid Comps in wings 1-4. > > > > > > 4. Non-tanking chronos using minstrels. > > > > > > 5. Druids using minstrels. > > > > > > > > > > > > This isn't applicable to raids only though, in fractals I observe: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Minstrel Chronomancers > > > > > > 2. Healing Tempests > > > > > > 3. Shaman's Scourges (ok this sort of thing has always been a problem with necros) > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys are we really ok with this? Am I the only one seeing this more now than ever, or am I crazy? > > > > > > > > > > What concerns me is that you are somehow able to see PUGs gear. > > > > > > > > I wouldn't jump to conclusions about how he received his information. It's very possible he just asked people to ping their gear. > > > > > > How hard do you have to try to pay no attention to not be able to tell the difference between healing druids and Viper druids or DPS weavers and healing tempests. Not to mention DPS meters and the fact that people tell you what they prefer to play. > > > > I think you quoted wrong person. > > No he knew what he was saying. Like what is a the difference between a Druid with a SB and torch, a Druid with axe/wh and staff and a Druid with a main hand sword. Like I would even say it's probably unlikely that you will ever see a healing druid doing 10k dps. :tongue: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Zlater.6789" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Zlater.6789" said: > > > > > Hi guys, I've been watching and observing and lately I've been making some observations that are really concerning. What is most concerning is that these observations do not apply only to pugs, but very much to some experienced raid statics as well. > > > > > > > > > > 1. Healer only players. > > > > > 2. Banner Slave Warriors doing terrible DPS. > > > > > 3. Double Healing Druid Comps in wings 1-4. > > > > > 4. Non-tanking chronos using minstrels. > > > > > 5. Druids using minstrels. > > > > > > > > > > This isn't applicable to raids only though, in fractals I observe: > > > > > > > > > > 1. Minstrel Chronomancers > > > > > 2. Healing Tempests > > > > > 3. Shaman's Scourges (ok this sort of thing has always been a problem with necros) > > > > > > > > > > Guys are we really ok with this? Am I the only one seeing this more now than ever, or am I crazy? > > > > > > > > Wait a minute! Are you saying there are OTHER ways to do content that AREN'T the accepted meta? Oh noes!!! People playing how they want? Finding other solutions for PVE content? Sounds like we need some action FAST! > > > > > > I think you misread because what you're saying doesn't make any sense. I very much notice myself that minstrels is becoming or has already become the meta. > > > > > > Then I pose a question, are you ok with minstrels becoming the meta? > > > > No I did understand because either way, it's about people 'being OK' with how others play the game. What I find ironic is that meta people thinking there might be something wrong with the meta changing ... like it's never done that before? It changes all the time. > > > > I can imagine the conversation: > > > > "Are you playing the old meta or the new meta?" > > "What do you mean, meta is meta right?" > > "Oh no, the new meta sucks ... they do this and that; it's the FALSE meta. We worship the true meta gods" > > "I don't get it, the new meta god is better than your old meta god. Watch how fast we can clear Dhuum" > > "You worship a false meta god!!!! BURN HERETIC!!!" > > > > I guess that irony is lost on anyone whose drank too much meta-aid. Carry on. > > > > Youre not ok, clearly you're not ok. Obviously your meta is a lie because it's not helping you be ok. > > Lol also you're saying it's ok to waste hours of others time wiping on a boss at enrage because you want to "be ok." I don't mean offence by this I'm just wondering.   That's exactly the sensationalist metapusher response I was anticipating. No offence taken ... its just another reason for me to believe there isn't much place in this game for people who want to dictate how others should play. I don't get where you are getting this 'wasting people's time wiping for hours' nonsense. You don't need to play meta to be successful and complete raids in a reasonable amount of time ... but you already know that don't you.  Let me sit back while your world burns in a game where everyone can play how they want ... EVEN meta players. What I find amusing is that as people continue to push meta in other people's faces as if it's the only way to play, it's their OWN pool of players they are willing to play with that gets smaller. Hum, think about that for a minute.   Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 We always play with 2 harrier druids, it makes much cleaner kills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlater.6789 Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Zlater.6789" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Henry.5713" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > > > > @"Zlater.6789" said: > > > > > > > Hi guys, I've been watching and observing and lately I've been making some observations that are really concerning. What is most concerning is that these observations do not apply only to pugs, but very much to some experienced raid statics as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Healer only players. > > > > > > > 2. Banner Slave Warriors doing terrible DPS. > > > > > > > 3. Double Healing Druid Comps in wings 1-4. > > > > > > > 4. Non-tanking chronos using minstrels. > > > > > > > 5. Druids using minstrels. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This isn't applicable to raids only though, in fractals I observe: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Minstrel Chronomancers > > > > > > > 2. Healing Tempests > > > > > > > 3. Shaman's Scourges (ok this sort of thing has always been a problem with necros) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys are we really ok with this? Am I the only one seeing this more now than ever, or am I crazy? > > > > > > > > > > > > What concerns me is that you are somehow able to see PUGs gear. > > > > > > > > > > I wouldn't jump to conclusions about how he received his information. It's very possible he just asked people to ping their gear. > > > > > > > > How hard do you have to try to pay no attention to not be able to tell the difference between healing druids and Viper druids or DPS weavers and healing tempests. Not to mention DPS meters and the fact that people tell you what they prefer to play. > > > > > > I think you quoted wrong person. > > > > No he knew what he was saying. Like what is a the difference between a Druid with a SB and torch, a Druid with axe/wh and staff and a Druid with a main hand sword. Like I would even say it's probably unlikely that you will ever see a healing druid doing 10k dps. :tongue: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Zlater.6789" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Zlater.6789" said: > > > > > > Hi guys, I've been watching and observing and lately I've been making some observations that are really concerning. What is most concerning is that these observations do not apply only to pugs, but very much to some experienced raid statics as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Healer only players. > > > > > > 2. Banner Slave Warriors doing terrible DPS. > > > > > > 3. Double Healing Druid Comps in wings 1-4. > > > > > > 4. Non-tanking chronos using minstrels. > > > > > > 5. Druids using minstrels. > > > > > > > > > > > > This isn't applicable to raids only though, in fractals I observe: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Minstrel Chronomancers > > > > > > 2. Healing Tempests > > > > > > 3. Shaman's Scourges (ok this sort of thing has always been a problem with necros) > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys are we really ok with this? Am I the only one seeing this more now than ever, or am I crazy? > > > > > > > > > > Wait a minute! Are you saying there are OTHER ways to do content that AREN'T the accepted meta? Oh noes!!! People playing how they want? Finding other solutions for PVE content? Sounds like we need some action FAST! > > > > > > > > I think you misread because what you're saying doesn't make any sense. I very much notice myself that minstrels is becoming or has already become the meta. > > > > > > > > Then I pose a question, are you ok with minstrels becoming the meta? > > > > > > No I did understand because either way, it's about people 'being OK' with how others play the game. What I find ironic is that meta people thinking there might be something wrong with the meta changing ... like it's never done that before? It changes all the time. > > > > > > I can imagine the conversation: > > > > > > "Are you playing the old meta or the new meta?" > > > "What do you mean, meta is meta right?" > > > "Oh no, the new meta sucks ... they do this and that; it's the FALSE meta. We worship the true meta gods" > > > "I don't get it, the new meta god is better than your old meta god. Watch how fast we can clear Dhuum" > > > "You worship a false meta god!!!! BURN HERETIC!!!" > > > > > > I guess that irony is lost on anyone whose drank too much meta-aid. Carry on. > > > > > > > Youre not ok, clearly you're not ok. Obviously your meta is a lie because it's not helping you be ok. > > > > Lol also you're saying it's ok to waste hours of others time wiping on a boss at enrage because you want to "be ok." I don't mean offence by this I'm just wondering. > > > > That's exactly the sensationalist metapusher response I was anticipating. No offence taken ... its just another reason for me to believe there isn't much place in this game for people who want to dictate how others should play. I don't get where you are getting this 'wasting people's time wiping for hours' nonsense. You don't need to play meta to be successful and complete raids in a reasonable amount of time ... but you already know that don't you. > > Let me sit back while your world burns in a game where everyone can play how they want ... EVEN meta players. What I find amusing is that as people continue to push meta in other people's faces as if it's the only way to play, it's their OWN pool of players they are willing to play with that gets smaller. Hum, think about that for a minute. > >  Thank you for your personal opinions. I think you're a little confused because, I'm not arguing that dps is meta, in fact I'm arguing that 10-man tank comps are the meta. I've been consistent in saying that right from even the title. So what you're actually saying: "Push (minstrel) meta in other people's faces as if it's the only way to play." You see, I'm a supporter of non-meta builds and I don't support the above statement. I want to see my non-meta condi support renegade allowed into pug raids pls, or are you going to kick me because I'm not playing healer tempest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 I think the person confused here might be you, because meta isn't about popular or up and coming strategies, it's about optimization and in this game, optimized play is about the fastest kills. That means a10 man tank comp can't be the meta because it's not about the fastest kill. You're simply seeing people doing what they should be doing; completing content the way they want, not the way they are being told by metapushers. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlater.6789 Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > I think the person confused here might be you, because meta isn't about popular or up and coming strategies, it's about optimization and in this game, optimized play is about the fastest kills. That means a10 man tank comp can't be the meta because it's not about the fastest kill. You're simply seeing people doing what they should be doing; completing content the way they want, not the way they are being told by metapushers. >  Well stacking scourges is definitely the meta for Dhuum CM. But its because its the safest and most popular method. However it definitely isn't the most optimal for dps by any stretch. So I think even just that one example is enough for your argument to come undone. If you want more you can simply wonder why the fractal meta isnt 4 DPS and a chrono yet? I understand what you are trying to say and where you're coming from, but I'm not an advocate of insulting people about this, and I think you should calm down. While you're intentionally discriminating against people throwing insults at them because they play the game a certain way that you don't like "metapushers" "sensationalist". I am simply asking a question on whether we are ok with where the meta is at and where it might be leading us to later. The difference is I'm here to reveal this to us and hopefully to have an open discussion about it in other places like in our guilds and in our statics. A lot of people are also afraid to discuss this, mostly because of responses like those that you have given. You're just here to bully people who don't agree with you until you can force them to agree with you, I'm telling you I think that's wrong and you should stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikeEU.7690 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > Gear, comps and experience go hand to hand. But id me interested in what exp groups have terrible bs, run misntrel chronos, And double druid. I mean i guess prob someone might want a second druid idk id assume 1 is enough nowdays. > > There are bosses where double druid is optimal. But not for healing rather utility and CC. Nope, there are none where that is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 > @"NikeEU.7690" said: > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > Gear, comps and experience go hand to hand. But id me interested in what exp groups have terrible bs, run misntrel chronos, And double druid. I mean i guess prob someone might want a second druid idk id assume 1 is enough nowdays. > > > > There are bosses where double druid is optimal. But not for healing rather utility and CC. > > Nope, there are none where that is the case. For you and friends on your skill level, perhaps. Most groups _do_ need that additional healing, though. It makes the runs so much more smoother, and significantly lowers the chances of failing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikeEU.7690 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"NikeEU.7690" said: > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > Gear, comps and experience go hand to hand. But id me interested in what exp groups have terrible bs, run misntrel chronos, And double druid. I mean i guess prob someone might want a second druid idk id assume 1 is enough nowdays. > > > > > > There are bosses where double druid is optimal. But not for healing rather utility and CC. > > > > Nope, there are none where that is the case. > For you and friends on your skill level, perhaps. Most groups _do_ need that additional healing, though. It makes the runs so much more smoother, and significantly lowers the chances of failing. > Â His point was that there were fights where 2 druids are brought **not for healing but for CC.** I said there are no bosses with the optimal comp includes 2 druids just for extra CC. Healing wasn't part of my position statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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