bravan.3876 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > > > > Anet said they don't want the mesmer player having to decide between let phnatasm live or shatter. This decision gets deleted by turning phantasm into clones after the first attack already. It's not needed that phantasm don't count into the maximum 3 illusion up rule, its not necessary that thery do not get shattered as phantasms and it is not necessary that they do such insane dmg on the one attack they have (at least not in WvW/ PvP, ofc for PvE they need some more impact compared to just let 3 strong phantasms live all time and only autoattck through the content but for that we get PvP/WvW skill split or not?). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I said it already, i think the phantasm rule should get changed back for PvP and WvW, they should count to the maximum limit of 3 again and they should get shattered even before the one attack is finished, so the mesmer has to look for his phantasm, if he want him to finish the first attack before shatter. Shattermesm had to look for this since game release. More than 3 illusions up is also just too much screen clutter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also some phantasm doing too much dmg, a higher cd is good but not enough, when you have phantasm hit with 8k+ the mesmer don't need them a second time in a fight to win. A shattermesmer never let the phantasm live longer than one attack since game release so there is no reason to give them such insane dmg only because they become clones after first attack (what is a buff for shattermes already). An npc carried build that just can brainless spam high dmg phantasm is noting you want in PvP/WvW, no one liked necro minion master nec or turret engi because it carries low skill by npcs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the next balance patch in PvP/ WvW i would like to see a dmg reduction on staff, sword offhand and utility phantasms (maybe even pistol) in additon to the higher cd and that phantasm count into the maximum 3 rule again and get shattered also as long as they are phantasms already. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm gonna stop you right there. > > > > > > > And no I'm not a mesmer main, so I'm going to silence that argument before it even begins. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer staff- Has no damage attached to it. All it has a little condi that can easily be negated. It is a utility weapon that can give the mesmer an escape, a Phantasm, and occasional boons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer sword- Honestly why nerf the damage. It's purely a DPS option that gives you one unreliable block and a phantasm. If you want to go balls to the wall, go for it. But it doesn't up your survivability. Currently, it's doing it's job and its fine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pistol- Who..brings pistol? I guess if you want extra CC and Condi? But shield does pistol's job better, while the damage is average at best. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm honestly surprised you didn't mention torch or focus LOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Though I will agree that the utility phantasms are doing too much spike damage for their own good. A shave in their numbers should suffice, but I understand they wanted to compensate somewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > Read correct i say the phantasm of these weapons not other skills of these weapons should get nerved in dmg. The 2 spawning staff phantasm do insane dmg, so does sword offhand phantasm. I didnt know how they buffed pistol phantasm, because as you say, no one use it until now ( yet sword offhand is better in any way) but the phantasm itself had very high dmg already, if they buffed it and sword offhand get nerfed you maybe will see pistol in PvP when phantasmbuilds stay viable. A range phantasm hitting 10-12k (when it got buffed, what i don't know) is just annoying. > > > > > > > > > > Phantasmal Warlock: Damage (3x): 498 (0.45)? > > > > > > > > > > Grabbed straight from the Guild Wars Wiki. > > > > > So tell me how this is doing 10k again? > > > > > Not even buffs from the traitlines could push this low number up with the phantasm on staff. > > > > > > > > > > LOL. > > > > > > > > It does, thats all i know from ingame experience > > > > > > Then post it on here, from your combat log, because I promise you, that 10k is not coming from Warlock. > > > > > > I /have/ many, many mesmer friends that play and when they show me their screens, the 10k is never from Warlock damage by itself. Usually it's either from sword or greatsword, because very little mirages run staff with the actual good build. > > > > > > You getting tromped by the meme builds. > > > > I have not saved any pic until now, when i play again i try to rememebr to make a pic from my combat log. the dmg is not from one of the phantasms it is ofc from both together beaming at you. but staff sw/sw disenchanter is not a meme build it is a metabuild lel > > Sword/Torch with Greatsword is what everyone and their mum runs. Seriously, every match that I've ever been in, I have not seen one mesmer not run the kitten-worthy greatsword build. It's overall stronger tbh and you get your burst faster. Staff one is if you want to basically not use stealth, by why not use stealth since it's basically freelo. > > And warlock, together, even with the beams still does not hit to 10k. Even in an actual fight, you could probably juice 4-5k? Maybe six or seven if you crit? Now 10k I expect on the swords because those are clearly dps power weapons. Staff? Pfft, not really In plat 3 i mostly met sw sw staff mesmer with chaosline, barely any gs mesmer, and when these gs mesmer where all phantasm spam mesmer and not shatter in the first place and running sword offhand with signetheal not torch. Are you NA maybe? The berserker didn't rly get buffed itself thats why i didn't mention him, he do the same dmg he always did and it is not op. Torch we could talk about if this skill needs a daze. I never said 10k for warlock, you brought the number up, i just say it needs a nerf in dmg because it makes too much dmg for a weapon gives that much sustain and mobility. 8k i got by both warlocks together often enough. And giving 2 phantasm which also turn into clones for additional shatter dmg is just too much. Also the clutter from staff is insane on screen. Npc carried builds are just not good in PvP/ WvW, same for the good old minion master necro or turret engi builds. There is no need to talk about specific weapons when the phantasm rule with not counting into 3 illusion up limit is broken itself and lot of phantasm got buffed to compensate for having only one attack anymore (what was not needed because no shattermes ever let phantasms live longer than for one attack anyway), these buffed phantams are staff, sword offhand and utility phantasms in the first place, maybe pistol (idk) and we also can talk about torch phantasm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vieux P.1238 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 What the OP's is saying to Anet is to nerf & make Mesmers ... -Easy to identify threw out all the illusions by putting a target on top of the mesmer player -Easy to hit -Can not evade or reflect any attacks -Make all clones explode 1 sec after summoned -Make clone deal no damage upon explode -Make clone deal no damage upon shatter -Make mesmer condi or power deal 0 damage -Make mesmer player visible from stealth upon moving or clicking any skill's -Removed Elusive Mind despite the nerf & replace with nothing & nerf it again next patch - & Finally make any AA automatically kill any mesmer targeted with no possible dodge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Ketsu.4569 Posted March 14, 2018 Author Share Posted March 14, 2018 > @"Vieux P.1238" said: > What the OP's is saying to Anet is to nerf & make Mesmers ... > > -Easy to identify threw out all the illusions by putting a target on top of the mesmer player > -Easy to hit > -Can not evade or reflect any attacks > -Make all clones explode 1 sec after summoned > -Make clone deal no damage upon explode > -Make clone deal no damage upon shatter > -Make mesmer condi or power deal 0 damage > -Make mesmer player visible from stealth upon moving or clicking any skill's > -Removed Elusive Mind despite the nerf & replace with nothing & nerf it again next patch > - & Finally make any AA automatically kill any mesmer targeted with no possible dodge. > lolwut. I specifically stated the point of this revert is so they don't receive tons of nerfs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itz Jay.8941 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > @"Itz Jay.8941" said: > > This has been said before, back in the HoT meta. Mesmer had illusionary reversion nerfed. I do agree that there is a lot of visual noise in sPvP at the moment, mesmer is one of the biggest culprits of this, and it is annoying. However the biggest problem I have is that mesmer has been pushed into playing power burst builds or axe for condition. > > > > So what were left with is another class which is playing burst builds, this is what is not healthy for sPvP. People go on and on about sustain builds and bunker builds, but sadly to an extent they are healthy for the game mode. All the time you are going to be playing duo or solo que. **Condi mirage just had way too much evasion, too many stacks of confusion, stunbreaking and mobility**. None of those issues have been addressed, all they have done is converted the class into playing a squishier build, which can take you from 100-0 a lot faster. Another class which sits off point and picks enemies off with ridiculous burst. > > > > So the problem with everyone running burst builds is that they either synergize extremely well with necros and firebrands or they get absolutely stomped without them. So you can say that it's a swap class issue, but you're wrong. The PoF specs are simply just too powerful, some classes just have to much burst capabilites with and without mobility, others just simply don't work with the offensive +1200 stats that we have. Currently a berserker holo can sit behind a necro and a firebrand and make short work of any squishy comp, and there's nothing you can do about it because you're playing some burst build which is incapable of ressing allies. > > > > With a nice balanced sustain meta, not like scourge or firebrand, more like weaver. You have teams that are capable of regrouping and surviving escaping outnumbered situations. That is healthy. What we have now is one person making a mistake, and you're snowballed with burst for the rest of the game. > > I don't know where you're seeing all the confusion unless they're using blinding dissipation and ineptitude, but otherwise we have few sources of confusion now since Illusionary Retribution got changed to Cry of Pain (so removed from every shatter other than F2), and removed from all of axe as well. Now it's mostly torment with bleeds and burn if using torch and staff. > > You can be assured that Elusive Mind is going to get nerfed. > > Mobility - I'd argue the mobility is fine as you have to trait and build for maximising it and/or otherwise sacrifice some other aspects. Likewise with evasion - this is only truly strong in wvw where you can have the endurance regen food and energy sigils are still 50% endurance refund. In pvp I'd argue it's not out of line. I'd sooner see direct damage output nerfed than the survivability - so pushing mesmer more into a light bruiser with sustain through evasion/mobility and lower huge burst damage, than a 100-0 burst+bruiser. In any case, power mirage is more dangerous than pure condi mirage right now. > > Edit - I should add for the record I agree with wanting to move away from the 100-0 gameplay with hard damage avoidance being the only form of defence. Was talking about before patch, read again. If you want to play condition on mirage now, yes you have to play axe, which is less mobility yes, but its braindead boring to play. IDK who in their right mind would want to play axe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 > @"Itz Jay.8941" said: > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > > @"Itz Jay.8941" said: > > > This has been said before, back in the HoT meta. Mesmer had illusionary reversion nerfed. I do agree that there is a lot of visual noise in sPvP at the moment, mesmer is one of the biggest culprits of this, and it is annoying. However the biggest problem I have is that mesmer has been pushed into playing power burst builds or axe for condition. > > > > > > So what were left with is another class which is playing burst builds, this is what is not healthy for sPvP. People go on and on about sustain builds and bunker builds, but sadly to an extent they are healthy for the game mode. All the time you are going to be playing duo or solo que. **Condi mirage just had way too much evasion, too many stacks of confusion, stunbreaking and mobility**. None of those issues have been addressed, all they have done is converted the class into playing a squishier build, which can take you from 100-0 a lot faster. Another class which sits off point and picks enemies off with ridiculous burst. > > > > > > So the problem with everyone running burst builds is that they either synergize extremely well with necros and firebrands or they get absolutely stomped without them. So you can say that it's a swap class issue, but you're wrong. The PoF specs are simply just too powerful, some classes just have to much burst capabilites with and without mobility, others just simply don't work with the offensive +1200 stats that we have. Currently a berserker holo can sit behind a necro and a firebrand and make short work of any squishy comp, and there's nothing you can do about it because you're playing some burst build which is incapable of ressing allies. > > > > > > With a nice balanced sustain meta, not like scourge or firebrand, more like weaver. You have teams that are capable of regrouping and surviving escaping outnumbered situations. That is healthy. What we have now is one person making a mistake, and you're snowballed with burst for the rest of the game. > > > > I don't know where you're seeing all the confusion unless they're using blinding dissipation and ineptitude, but otherwise we have few sources of confusion now since Illusionary Retribution got changed to Cry of Pain (so removed from every shatter other than F2), and removed from all of axe as well. Now it's mostly torment with bleeds and burn if using torch and staff. > > > > You can be assured that Elusive Mind is going to get nerfed. > > > > Mobility - I'd argue the mobility is fine as you have to trait and build for maximising it and/or otherwise sacrifice some other aspects. Likewise with evasion - this is only truly strong in wvw where you can have the endurance regen food and energy sigils are still 50% endurance refund. In pvp I'd argue it's not out of line. I'd sooner see direct damage output nerfed than the survivability - so pushing mesmer more into a light bruiser with sustain through evasion/mobility and lower huge burst damage, than a 100-0 burst+bruiser. In any case, power mirage is more dangerous than pure condi mirage right now. > > > > Edit - I should add for the record I agree with wanting to move away from the 100-0 gameplay with hard damage avoidance being the only form of defence. > > Was talking about before patch, read again. If you want to play condition on mirage now, yes you have to play axe, which is less mobility yes, but its braindead boring to play. IDK who in their right mind would want to play axe. I’ve been. Mainly because I never picked it up previously and wanted to try it out. Is it one dimensional? Yup, but when you’re running viper, or grieving, you can really do work because no one expects high crits AND torment/burning hitting big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itz Jay.8941 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > @"Itz Jay.8941" said: > > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > > > @"Itz Jay.8941" said: > > > > This has been said before, back in the HoT meta. Mesmer had illusionary reversion nerfed. I do agree that there is a lot of visual noise in sPvP at the moment, mesmer is one of the biggest culprits of this, and it is annoying. However the biggest problem I have is that mesmer has been pushed into playing power burst builds or axe for condition. > > > > > > > > So what were left with is another class which is playing burst builds, this is what is not healthy for sPvP. People go on and on about sustain builds and bunker builds, but sadly to an extent they are healthy for the game mode. All the time you are going to be playing duo or solo que. **Condi mirage just had way too much evasion, too many stacks of confusion, stunbreaking and mobility**. None of those issues have been addressed, all they have done is converted the class into playing a squishier build, which can take you from 100-0 a lot faster. Another class which sits off point and picks enemies off with ridiculous burst. > > > > > > > > So the problem with everyone running burst builds is that they either synergize extremely well with necros and firebrands or they get absolutely stomped without them. So you can say that it's a swap class issue, but you're wrong. The PoF specs are simply just too powerful, some classes just have to much burst capabilites with and without mobility, others just simply don't work with the offensive +1200 stats that we have. Currently a berserker holo can sit behind a necro and a firebrand and make short work of any squishy comp, and there's nothing you can do about it because you're playing some burst build which is incapable of ressing allies. > > > > > > > > With a nice balanced sustain meta, not like scourge or firebrand, more like weaver. You have teams that are capable of regrouping and surviving escaping outnumbered situations. That is healthy. What we have now is one person making a mistake, and you're snowballed with burst for the rest of the game. > > > > > > I don't know where you're seeing all the confusion unless they're using blinding dissipation and ineptitude, but otherwise we have few sources of confusion now since Illusionary Retribution got changed to Cry of Pain (so removed from every shatter other than F2), and removed from all of axe as well. Now it's mostly torment with bleeds and burn if using torch and staff. > > > > > > You can be assured that Elusive Mind is going to get nerfed. > > > > > > Mobility - I'd argue the mobility is fine as you have to trait and build for maximising it and/or otherwise sacrifice some other aspects. Likewise with evasion - this is only truly strong in wvw where you can have the endurance regen food and energy sigils are still 50% endurance refund. In pvp I'd argue it's not out of line. I'd sooner see direct damage output nerfed than the survivability - so pushing mesmer more into a light bruiser with sustain through evasion/mobility and lower huge burst damage, than a 100-0 burst+bruiser. In any case, power mirage is more dangerous than pure condi mirage right now. > > > > > > Edit - I should add for the record I agree with wanting to move away from the 100-0 gameplay with hard damage avoidance being the only form of defence. > > > > Was talking about before patch, read again. If you want to play condition on mirage now, yes you have to play axe, which is less mobility yes, but its braindead boring to play. IDK who in their right mind would want to play axe. > > I’ve been. Mainly because I never picked it up previously and wanted to try it out. Is it one dimensional? Yup, but when you’re running viper, or grieving, you can really do work because no one expects high crits AND torment/burning hitting big. But it's so boring, fun>damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 > @"Itz Jay.8941" said: > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > @"Itz Jay.8941" said: > > > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > > > > @"Itz Jay.8941" said: > > > > > This has been said before, back in the HoT meta. Mesmer had illusionary reversion nerfed. I do agree that there is a lot of visual noise in sPvP at the moment, mesmer is one of the biggest culprits of this, and it is annoying. However the biggest problem I have is that mesmer has been pushed into playing power burst builds or axe for condition. > > > > > > > > > > So what were left with is another class which is playing burst builds, this is what is not healthy for sPvP. People go on and on about sustain builds and bunker builds, but sadly to an extent they are healthy for the game mode. All the time you are going to be playing duo or solo que. **Condi mirage just had way too much evasion, too many stacks of confusion, stunbreaking and mobility**. None of those issues have been addressed, all they have done is converted the class into playing a squishier build, which can take you from 100-0 a lot faster. Another class which sits off point and picks enemies off with ridiculous burst. > > > > > > > > > > So the problem with everyone running burst builds is that they either synergize extremely well with necros and firebrands or they get absolutely stomped without them. So you can say that it's a swap class issue, but you're wrong. The PoF specs are simply just too powerful, some classes just have to much burst capabilites with and without mobility, others just simply don't work with the offensive +1200 stats that we have. Currently a berserker holo can sit behind a necro and a firebrand and make short work of any squishy comp, and there's nothing you can do about it because you're playing some burst build which is incapable of ressing allies. > > > > > > > > > > With a nice balanced sustain meta, not like scourge or firebrand, more like weaver. You have teams that are capable of regrouping and surviving escaping outnumbered situations. That is healthy. What we have now is one person making a mistake, and you're snowballed with burst for the rest of the game. > > > > > > > > I don't know where you're seeing all the confusion unless they're using blinding dissipation and ineptitude, but otherwise we have few sources of confusion now since Illusionary Retribution got changed to Cry of Pain (so removed from every shatter other than F2), and removed from all of axe as well. Now it's mostly torment with bleeds and burn if using torch and staff. > > > > > > > > You can be assured that Elusive Mind is going to get nerfed. > > > > > > > > Mobility - I'd argue the mobility is fine as you have to trait and build for maximising it and/or otherwise sacrifice some other aspects. Likewise with evasion - this is only truly strong in wvw where you can have the endurance regen food and energy sigils are still 50% endurance refund. In pvp I'd argue it's not out of line. I'd sooner see direct damage output nerfed than the survivability - so pushing mesmer more into a light bruiser with sustain through evasion/mobility and lower huge burst damage, than a 100-0 burst+bruiser. In any case, power mirage is more dangerous than pure condi mirage right now. > > > > > > > > Edit - I should add for the record I agree with wanting to move away from the 100-0 gameplay with hard damage avoidance being the only form of defence. > > > > > > Was talking about before patch, read again. If you want to play condition on mirage now, yes you have to play axe, which is less mobility yes, but its braindead boring to play. IDK who in their right mind would want to play axe. > > > > I’ve been. Mainly because I never picked it up previously and wanted to try it out. Is it one dimensional? Yup, but when you’re running viper, or grieving, you can really do work because no one expects high crits AND torment/burning hitting big. > > But it's so boring, fun>damage. I know. But when dealing with pesky druids on a side mode efficiency>fun. I have fun playing Sw/Sw Staff but necro rips me a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vieux P.1238 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > @"Vieux P.1238" said: > > What the OP's is saying to Anet is to nerf & make Mesmers ... > > > > -Easy to identify threw out all the illusions by putting a target on top of the mesmer player > > -Easy to hit > > -Can not evade or reflect any attacks > > -Make all clones explode 1 sec after summoned > > -Make clone deal no damage upon explode > > -Make clone deal no damage upon shatter > > -Make mesmer condi or power deal 0 damage > > -Make mesmer player visible from stealth upon moving or clicking any skill's > > -Removed Elusive Mind despite the nerf & replace with nothing & nerf it again next patch > > - & Finally make any AA automatically kill any mesmer targeted with no possible dodge. > > > > lolwut. > > I specifically stated the point of this revert is so they don't receive tons of nerfs. > > > Yes, that is exactly what it sounded! :astonished: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoopop.5630 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 mesmer has always BEEN op.... they are now the strongest class in the game that can play Core/Chrono/Mirage and ALL 3 can be very viable depending wth you are running..... Add to the fact that the clone issue is a reason why it's beyond OP at the moment but every other mesmer main are going to come in here and say "it isn't broken or op" when clearly it is..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itz Jay.8941 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > @"Itz Jay.8941" said: > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > @"Itz Jay.8941" said: > > > > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > > > > > @"Itz Jay.8941" said: > > > > > > This has been said before, back in the HoT meta. Mesmer had illusionary reversion nerfed. I do agree that there is a lot of visual noise in sPvP at the moment, mesmer is one of the biggest culprits of this, and it is annoying. However the biggest problem I have is that mesmer has been pushed into playing power burst builds or axe for condition. > > > > > > > > > > > > So what were left with is another class which is playing burst builds, this is what is not healthy for sPvP. People go on and on about sustain builds and bunker builds, but sadly to an extent they are healthy for the game mode. All the time you are going to be playing duo or solo que. **Condi mirage just had way too much evasion, too many stacks of confusion, stunbreaking and mobility**. None of those issues have been addressed, all they have done is converted the class into playing a squishier build, which can take you from 100-0 a lot faster. Another class which sits off point and picks enemies off with ridiculous burst. > > > > > > > > > > > > So the problem with everyone running burst builds is that they either synergize extremely well with necros and firebrands or they get absolutely stomped without them. So you can say that it's a swap class issue, but you're wrong. The PoF specs are simply just too powerful, some classes just have to much burst capabilites with and without mobility, others just simply don't work with the offensive +1200 stats that we have. Currently a berserker holo can sit behind a necro and a firebrand and make short work of any squishy comp, and there's nothing you can do about it because you're playing some burst build which is incapable of ressing allies. > > > > > > > > > > > > With a nice balanced sustain meta, not like scourge or firebrand, more like weaver. You have teams that are capable of regrouping and surviving escaping outnumbered situations. That is healthy. What we have now is one person making a mistake, and you're snowballed with burst for the rest of the game. > > > > > > > > > > I don't know where you're seeing all the confusion unless they're using blinding dissipation and ineptitude, but otherwise we have few sources of confusion now since Illusionary Retribution got changed to Cry of Pain (so removed from every shatter other than F2), and removed from all of axe as well. Now it's mostly torment with bleeds and burn if using torch and staff. > > > > > > > > > > You can be assured that Elusive Mind is going to get nerfed. > > > > > > > > > > Mobility - I'd argue the mobility is fine as you have to trait and build for maximising it and/or otherwise sacrifice some other aspects. Likewise with evasion - this is only truly strong in wvw where you can have the endurance regen food and energy sigils are still 50% endurance refund. In pvp I'd argue it's not out of line. I'd sooner see direct damage output nerfed than the survivability - so pushing mesmer more into a light bruiser with sustain through evasion/mobility and lower huge burst damage, than a 100-0 burst+bruiser. In any case, power mirage is more dangerous than pure condi mirage right now. > > > > > > > > > > Edit - I should add for the record I agree with wanting to move away from the 100-0 gameplay with hard damage avoidance being the only form of defence. > > > > > > > > Was talking about before patch, read again. If you want to play condition on mirage now, yes you have to play axe, which is less mobility yes, but its braindead boring to play. IDK who in their right mind would want to play axe. > > > > > > I’ve been. Mainly because I never picked it up previously and wanted to try it out. Is it one dimensional? Yup, but when you’re running viper, or grieving, you can really do work because no one expects high crits AND torment/burning hitting big. > > > > But it's so boring, fun>damage. > > I know. But when dealing with pesky druids on a side mode efficiency>fun. I have fun playing Sw/Sw Staff but necro rips me a new one. Nah dude, I'll take a tough fight over efficiency any day, as long as it's more fun. Yeah the sw/sw staff build is kinda cool, kinda fun to play. I like it more than playing greatsword anyway. As for necro well, yeah he likes boons but he kinda rips everyone, it's difficult sometimes to know when he's spamming everything into you until it's to late to do anything about it. Scourge is just cancer, let's face it, its the least fun to play with and against, braindead asf. I've just swapped over to weaver after maining condi chrono and theif since forever. I'm finding it really good fun to play surprisingly, nice rotational gameplay, can do some seriously amazing combos with dps, healing and CC. The elite is just so much fun. Can't see myself going back tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockmed.9417 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 Balance issues don't constitute a reversion of anything. They said when these changes came they had to keep an eye out because they didn't know exactly how things would change. They will tweak things. And hopefully they'll somehow break their incredibly long history of overnerfing due to the cries of bad players, just because they are the loudest. Anet needs to make frequent small changes instead of their typical "smash it into the floor" approach, or GIVE US A DAMN TEST REALM ALREADY so we can give them massive test cases so these types of changes aren't so devastating every damn time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curunen.8729 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 > @"Itz Jay.8941" said: > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > > @"Itz Jay.8941" said: > > > This has been said before, back in the HoT meta. Mesmer had illusionary reversion nerfed. I do agree that there is a lot of visual noise in sPvP at the moment, mesmer is one of the biggest culprits of this, and it is annoying. However the biggest problem I have is that mesmer has been pushed into playing power burst builds or axe for condition. > > > > > > So what were left with is another class which is playing burst builds, this is what is not healthy for sPvP. People go on and on about sustain builds and bunker builds, but sadly to an extent they are healthy for the game mode. All the time you are going to be playing duo or solo que. **Condi mirage just had way too much evasion, too many stacks of confusion, stunbreaking and mobility**. None of those issues have been addressed, all they have done is converted the class into playing a squishier build, which can take you from 100-0 a lot faster. Another class which sits off point and picks enemies off with ridiculous burst. > > > > > > So the problem with everyone running burst builds is that they either synergize extremely well with necros and firebrands or they get absolutely stomped without them. So you can say that it's a swap class issue, but you're wrong. The PoF specs are simply just too powerful, some classes just have to much burst capabilites with and without mobility, others just simply don't work with the offensive +1200 stats that we have. Currently a berserker holo can sit behind a necro and a firebrand and make short work of any squishy comp, and there's nothing you can do about it because you're playing some burst build which is incapable of ressing allies. > > > > > > With a nice balanced sustain meta, not like scourge or firebrand, more like weaver. You have teams that are capable of regrouping and surviving escaping outnumbered situations. That is healthy. What we have now is one person making a mistake, and you're snowballed with burst for the rest of the game. > > > > I don't know where you're seeing all the confusion unless they're using blinding dissipation and ineptitude, but otherwise we have few sources of confusion now since Illusionary Retribution got changed to Cry of Pain (so removed from every shatter other than F2), and removed from all of axe as well. Now it's mostly torment with bleeds and burn if using torch and staff. > > > > You can be assured that Elusive Mind is going to get nerfed. > > > > Mobility - I'd argue the mobility is fine as you have to trait and build for maximising it and/or otherwise sacrifice some other aspects. Likewise with evasion - this is only truly strong in wvw where you can have the endurance regen food and energy sigils are still 50% endurance refund. In pvp I'd argue it's not out of line. I'd sooner see direct damage output nerfed than the survivability - so pushing mesmer more into a light bruiser with sustain through evasion/mobility and lower huge burst damage, than a 100-0 burst+bruiser. In any case, power mirage is more dangerous than pure condi mirage right now. > > > > Edit - I should add for the record I agree with wanting to move away from the 100-0 gameplay with hard damage avoidance being the only form of defence. > > Was talking about before patch, read again. If you want to play condition on mirage now, yes you have to play axe, which is less mobility yes, but its braindead boring to play. IDK who in their right mind would want to play axe. At least axe is aesthetically beautiful and satisfying to use - I never get bored of it simply due to the animations. ;) Sure MH sword has more depth/utility, but I'd say scepter, staff and gs are equally one-dimensional as axe (staff probably the most). Personally I consider GS2/F1 the most boring thing, but different strokes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refia Montes.3205 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"MikeL.8260" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd look through the Mesmer forums and then post about my "case" on Phantasms rework. We had been asking this for what feels like years to no end and now that we finally got it you want to revert everything back just because you had a bad game in PvP.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Illusionary Defender is hitting people for 18k multiple times due to resummons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Illusionary Disenchanter is hitting for 10k+ as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - The 10+ clone spam makes it almost impossible to tell what's going on. Not only does it render tab target nearly useless, but click targetting as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - It is impossible to discern which clone is which because they just resummon themselves. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Mirage is still extremely difficult to pressure due to the nature of Mirage Cloak. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Chronomancer resummoning is even stronger than Mirage's (albeit a weaker MU). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Mesmer can also hit 20k+ damage from stealth repeatedly on a short cooldown without any tells if you don't see the mesmer coming. By the time the mesmer leaves stealth you die unless you can react an almost instant burst with quickness with a stunbreak that's also an evade or an invulnerability skill. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Chronomancer has access to 18+ seconds of alacrity as well as permanent EVERY boon in the game including 25 stacks of might. Core and Mirage do as well (minus the alacrity). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Mirage has the highest access to on-demand invulnerability. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > etc. etc. Mesmers are extremely broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just because you've been asking to make your class completely overpowered for years doesn't make it right. (lol) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Way to miss the point completely, nevermind the hyperbole (ie impossible to have more than 3 clones out at once unless having shattered a set (for clarity you shatter 3 clones just before more phantasms turn into clones or you spawn more by other means making it seem like there are more than 3 on the field at once) because clones overwrite each other, lol at tab targeting issues especially if difficulties between phantasms and the player which clearly do not look alike, actually Chrono has the highest access to on demand invuln through F5+F4 and alacrity because evade is not invuln... I could go on but cba). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The rework is fine and necessary to incentivise the use of the class mechanic (shatters) in every game mode. It was such a large change that there's bound to be balance issues. All that is needed is to look at phantasm skills and traits and interactions such as chronophantsma, imagined burden and so on, for balancing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't read what you wrote because I'm 99% sure your post consists of you arguing semantics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With that being said, mesmers were already regarded as overpowered before the rework. The fact that the changes made them even stronger is ridiculous. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mesmers: > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Do too much damage > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Are too hard to hit > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Have every boon permanently > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Have multiple ways to deal massive amounts of damage > > > > > > > > > > > > > - etc. etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually half of it was l2p, not only semantics so you could continue to keep your head buried or become more aware of how mesmer works so you can discuss the balance issues objectively rather than a subjective rant on the matter full of hyperbole because you hate mesmers. That goes for the OP and others on here as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As apharma said - this was a mechanical change necessary for the game - be aware of the difference between fundamental mechanical changes and balance, the latter of which is bound to be out of order when such a large change is made to the foundations of a class. So rather than moaning "mesmer so godlike now even more godlike...", suggest accurate solutions for balancing the phantasms spam in pvp. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you'll find many of us on here fairly level headed regarding what needs balancing on mesmer and as such we make suggestions on things to be nerfed. From my perspective I do think there are a number of things that need to be reigned in for the state of the game, which I don't feel is worth the effort for me to go into detail on in this thread. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There wasn't any hyperbole in that post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Too much damage relative to what - every class can do "too much" damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's really not that hard to understand. However, I'll break it down for you since it seems that you aren't able to grasp these simple concepts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Too much damage relative to an average player's health pool. It's "too much" damage, when a single attack can hit you for half or more of your health. In this case, a single clone can hit anywhere from 8-18k. Ie) It's "too much" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Too hard to hit - I can build a melee ranger with ridiculously high evade uptime for what it's worth - have had thieves complain at me about hacking in the past. In any case, Elusive Mind will be nerfed in some way, and potentially mirage dodge could be prevented from functioning when cced. Otherwise I don't see the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, simple concepts. You _can_ time your attacks around a melee ranger's evades. However, as an example, if you were to time an attack around a Mirage's kit and manage to land a cc, a Mirage can still dodge during it, nullifying any potential damage that would've hit otherwise. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Every boon permanently - this is pure hyperbole that doesn't apply anywhere outside of organised instanced pve with set rotations. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not a hyperbole. Several meta builds for mesmer easily allow the player to stack every boon in a fight indefinitely. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Multiple ways to deal massive amounts of damage - the only true "massive" sources of direct damage is F1 and some of the new phantasms (which has been said they can be balanced accordingly). There are multiple sources of regular/average damage which when comboed together can make for a massive damage spike. Do I think it is balanced? No, I think there should be more tradeoff building for pure power burst and survivability, however the ability to deal massive amounts of damage is widespread across most classes right now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You say there aren't multiple ways to deal massive amounts of damage. Then you proceed to mention multiple sources of "massive" damage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Each Mind Wrack hits for 3-5k+ per illusion shattered. That's anywhere from 9-15k total with 3. > > > > > > > > > 2. "Some of the new phantasms" is extremely general. In reality, there are MANY of these phantasms that hit extraordinarily hard. Hence, by grouping all of them up into one single overarching phrase, you try to give off the impression that there are way less than there actually are. Not to mention they can all be resummoned multiple times in quick succession. > > > > > > > > > 3. Incorrect. The ability to deal massive amounts of damage is **not** widespread. Only a handful of other classes outside of mesmer even have access to numbers such as these. The most prominent example is a fresh air ele. I can't think of any other build/class that can hit so hard, so frequently, with such little tell. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I could go on regarding your previous post... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Go for it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. So yeah, just like most classes can deal "too much" damage. In which I've already stated that I would like to see the game move away from a 100-0 or die scenario. Mesmer is not unique in this aspect. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. As said in other posts as well - I believe mirage's dodge will be changed to not function when cced in the future. Elusive Mind is getting nerfed in some way anyway. Chrono is fine in terms of evades as is core. Any other problem? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. Show me a video or something of a mesmer maintaining every boon (every single one) for the entire duration of a fight, or at least most of it, especially given stripping/stealing/corruption. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Disenchanter and Defender are the only two that hit ridiculously hard in one go. I have agreed these should be nerfed. iZerker is easier to dodge but likewise I have already stated that Imagined Burden should get the second iZerker removed. iWarden is laughable, iMage has a slow windup and long cooldown, iDuelist is nothing special in pvp, iWarlock is fine in terms of damage output, and iSwordsman executes the same animation as blurred frenzy without the evade after a leap - ie walk out of it. > > > > > > > > Likewise I have stated that interactions with Chronophantasma, F5 and things like signet of ether should be looked at. This is all the case of a major mechanical change where balance will be iterated towards again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ah I see "with such little tell" - so it's more to do with no cast time for shatters then? At range there is plenty of tell unless stealthed. I have stated several times in the past I neither like nor agree with stealth/100-0 gameplay and think it is cheap/cheesy. Anticipating blink shatter in melee range is similar to anticipating steal+backstab - likewise neither is healthy from stealth, but that is a separate issue where stealth needs an overhaul/nerfing for the health of the game. But if you can see the mesmer coming then it is purely l2p regarding anticipation and knowing what most mesmers are most likely to do - which is often predictable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aside from that, I don't think I can be bothered to list the number of skills including auto attacks that deal high damage including crits greater or equal to those 3-5k mind wrack clone crits or other mesmer damage abilities (ie quickness rapid fire... here's your cue to complain about reflects). Phantasms aside, if you dodge the F1 then you've got at least 10s before windup for another burst (unless alacrity and shatter storm - the former means chrono so no mirage which means no split surge damage and no sword ambush mobility, the latter means Illusions traitline which means not taking either Domination or Duelling, sacrificing damage output). In that time the sustained damage output is not "massive". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You need to format your posts a little better or add a tldr. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I didn't read everything but if you're agreeing with what I'm saying then there's no point in arguing lol > > > > > > > > > > > > Please put some effort in and reply to the content rather than taking a jab at my formatting. I'm not agreeing with everything you're saying and have broken down those parts accordingly. I am trying to raise awareness for non-mesmer mains and general pvp forum anti-mesmer bias to see where mesmer mains are coming from, and I hope you can see that a lot of us on here are self-critical and fairly precise in terms of what needs to be adjusted on mesmer, whether correct or not. But I personally don't take kindly to seeing blanket anti-mesmer nerf statements being made without accurate pinpointing of what can and needs to be adjusted for the sake of balance. > > > > > > > > > > If you want someone to read and respond to what you wrote, make it easy to read. The formatting and grammar of your previous post make it difficult to understand your points. > > > > > > > > > > Although I still haven't read it fully, I believe you mentioned something about showing you a video for proof. Frankly, I really don't need to. It's extremely easy to replicate. The fact that you don't know how to/refuse to acknowledge it, means: > > > > > > > > > > a) You don't know mesmer as well as you think you do > > > > > b) You lack the necessary knowledge to contribute meaningfully > > > > > > > > > > You're going off on tangents speaking about other classes in an attempt to defend mesmer. While I don't necessarily mind it, I don't see how some of your examples pertain to the discussion. Nor do I see how arguing semantics helps you in any way. So, together with the poor formatting, I will pick and choose what I want to respond to. Other than that, I've provided numerous screenshots and proof of my claims, yet it seems you've failed to do the same. > > > > > > > > > > Now, as to your point about blanket nerfs to mesmer. I never once mentioned blanket nerfs. However, I do agree that there many things than need to be drastically tuned down. The damage on many phantasms/other skills is one. The survivability and nature of Mirage/mesmer in general is another. The visual sewage and targetting are also issues, as well as the many AIs' interactions with projectiles. There are probably more, but I'll list them when they cross my mind. > > > > > > > > Likewise I'm going to pick and choose responding to this. I numbered bullet pointed most of the previous post and almost feel like typing a block of text here, but anyway... > > > > > > > > In a realistic fight with boon strip/corrupt going on, by itself I cannot see mesmer getting **permanent every single boon** for the entire duration of a fight. Yes they can spike every boon for short durations, but some will fall away/run out which is hardly permanent/indefinite. Example - can mesmer maintain *permanent* quickness in pvp, permanent application of aegis as soon as it is removed, or hell permanent resistance? Show me permanent resistance in pvp (not wvw) for one, on a mesmer by themselves, for an extended fight (ie not a short fight over in a few seconds). Though I doubt you'll be able to because mesmer has three direct ways of accessing resistance - BD with F5 and Signet of Inspiration rng, and Temporal Enchanter - and anyone traiting glamours in pvp you can laugh at and proceed to kill. The fourth is rune of revenant for resistance on heal but this still doesn't make it 100% uptime. So I don't think you know mesmer enough to make a statement like this. > > > > > > > > For the record I never said they can't have high uptime of a lot of boons - but you stating "have every boon permanently" is a straight exaggeration. > > > > > > > > Visual clutter I can agree with, hence suggesting a cap on maximum number of phantasms. Targeting issues are a feature of this game, which mesmer is designed around so short of a new game with soft lock and manual aim to target rather than tab targeting (which I would prefer), this isn't going to change. > > > > > > Hence why I said "You lack the necessary knowledge to contribute meaningfully." > > > > > > You clearly don't know what builds I'm talking about. These builds can maintain every boon **indefinitely**. I'm not exaggerating in the slightest. Permanent resistance/aegis are perfectly feasible. Aegis can be quickly stacked to 50+ seconds in duration. And, with Chaos Storm(s), Aegis pulses frequently during a fight. Although again, you're reduced to arguing semantics because you can't seem to find any other ways to back up your arguments. > > > > lol, one hit and aegis is gone - how is that permanent? Chaos storm is rng - usually one, maybe two pulses of aegis. Sometimes you don't get any. > > Because if you don't get hit, you can maintain Aegis permanently? It's really not that hard to understand. It's also easily reapplied in the case it does get removed. Again, I don't see how this is important. > > > > > **Go on then, humour me as I clearly know nothing** - teach me exactly the process of maintaining perma 100% uptime of resistance on mesmer, by themselves - no allies, no downtime in resistance. **Obviously this must be more broken than warrior** which is the only class I know of that has the potential to achieve a high uptime of resistance (outside of mallyx rev which is not worth talking about due to it's balance state). > > Sure thing. > Signet of Inspiration and/or Continuum Split can both give Resistance. However, a normal rotation would be: > > 1. Summon some illusions > 2. Continuum Split > 3. Signet of Inspiration > 4. Blow some shatters > 5. Resummon a ton of illusions > 5. Continuum Split > 6. Signet of Inspiration > 7. -insert any shatter here- > 8. Resummon a ton of illusions > 9. etc. etc. > > https://imgur.com/a/lFbH3 > > I only got up to step 5 and I still had 10+ seconds of resistance. If I used Signet of Inspiration and shattered again, I'd have even more. My point still stands. You don't know enough to contribute meaningfully. As someone who seems to be an advocate of the mesmer class, I find it surprising to see how you wouldn't know about simple boonsharing builds. Signet of Inspiration in pvp lul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itz Jay.8941 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > @"Itz Jay.8941" said: > > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > > > @"Itz Jay.8941" said: > > > > This has been said before, back in the HoT meta. Mesmer had illusionary reversion nerfed. I do agree that there is a lot of visual noise in sPvP at the moment, mesmer is one of the biggest culprits of this, and it is annoying. However the biggest problem I have is that mesmer has been pushed into playing power burst builds or axe for condition. > > > > > > > > So what were left with is another class which is playing burst builds, this is what is not healthy for sPvP. People go on and on about sustain builds and bunker builds, but sadly to an extent they are healthy for the game mode. All the time you are going to be playing duo or solo que. **Condi mirage just had way too much evasion, too many stacks of confusion, stunbreaking and mobility**. None of those issues have been addressed, all they have done is converted the class into playing a squishier build, which can take you from 100-0 a lot faster. Another class which sits off point and picks enemies off with ridiculous burst. > > > > > > > > So the problem with everyone running burst builds is that they either synergize extremely well with necros and firebrands or they get absolutely stomped without them. So you can say that it's a swap class issue, but you're wrong. The PoF specs are simply just too powerful, some classes just have to much burst capabilites with and without mobility, others just simply don't work with the offensive +1200 stats that we have. Currently a berserker holo can sit behind a necro and a firebrand and make short work of any squishy comp, and there's nothing you can do about it because you're playing some burst build which is incapable of ressing allies. > > > > > > > > With a nice balanced sustain meta, not like scourge or firebrand, more like weaver. You have teams that are capable of regrouping and surviving escaping outnumbered situations. That is healthy. What we have now is one person making a mistake, and you're snowballed with burst for the rest of the game. > > > > > > I don't know where you're seeing all the confusion unless they're using blinding dissipation and ineptitude, but otherwise we have few sources of confusion now since Illusionary Retribution got changed to Cry of Pain (so removed from every shatter other than F2), and removed from all of axe as well. Now it's mostly torment with bleeds and burn if using torch and staff. > > > > > > You can be assured that Elusive Mind is going to get nerfed. > > > > > > Mobility - I'd argue the mobility is fine as you have to trait and build for maximising it and/or otherwise sacrifice some other aspects. Likewise with evasion - this is only truly strong in wvw where you can have the endurance regen food and energy sigils are still 50% endurance refund. In pvp I'd argue it's not out of line. I'd sooner see direct damage output nerfed than the survivability - so pushing mesmer more into a light bruiser with sustain through evasion/mobility and lower huge burst damage, than a 100-0 burst+bruiser. In any case, power mirage is more dangerous than pure condi mirage right now. > > > > > > Edit - I should add for the record I agree with wanting to move away from the 100-0 gameplay with hard damage avoidance being the only form of defence. > > > > Was talking about before patch, read again. If you want to play condition on mirage now, yes you have to play axe, which is less mobility yes, but its braindead boring to play. IDK who in their right mind would want to play axe. > > At least axe is aesthetically beautiful and satisfying to use - I never get bored of it simply due to the animations. ;) Sure MH sword has more depth/utility, but I'd say scepter, staff and gs are equally one-dimensional as axe (staff probably the most). > > Personally I consider GS2/F1 the most boring thing, but different strokes... Lmao I absolutely cannot stand axe. I can barely play greatsword as well, I don't mind it with chrono it's more fun, but with mirage, nah. Maybe I'm just going off mirage tbh, and feeling chrono is just a little too weak to compete with anymore :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curunen.8729 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 > @"Itz Jay.8941" said: > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > > @"Itz Jay.8941" said: > > > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > > > > @"Itz Jay.8941" said: > > > > > This has been said before, back in the HoT meta. Mesmer had illusionary reversion nerfed. I do agree that there is a lot of visual noise in sPvP at the moment, mesmer is one of the biggest culprits of this, and it is annoying. However the biggest problem I have is that mesmer has been pushed into playing power burst builds or axe for condition. > > > > > > > > > > So what were left with is another class which is playing burst builds, this is what is not healthy for sPvP. People go on and on about sustain builds and bunker builds, but sadly to an extent they are healthy for the game mode. All the time you are going to be playing duo or solo que. **Condi mirage just had way too much evasion, too many stacks of confusion, stunbreaking and mobility**. None of those issues have been addressed, all they have done is converted the class into playing a squishier build, which can take you from 100-0 a lot faster. Another class which sits off point and picks enemies off with ridiculous burst. > > > > > > > > > > So the problem with everyone running burst builds is that they either synergize extremely well with necros and firebrands or they get absolutely stomped without them. So you can say that it's a swap class issue, but you're wrong. The PoF specs are simply just too powerful, some classes just have to much burst capabilites with and without mobility, others just simply don't work with the offensive +1200 stats that we have. Currently a berserker holo can sit behind a necro and a firebrand and make short work of any squishy comp, and there's nothing you can do about it because you're playing some burst build which is incapable of ressing allies. > > > > > > > > > > With a nice balanced sustain meta, not like scourge or firebrand, more like weaver. You have teams that are capable of regrouping and surviving escaping outnumbered situations. That is healthy. What we have now is one person making a mistake, and you're snowballed with burst for the rest of the game. > > > > > > > > I don't know where you're seeing all the confusion unless they're using blinding dissipation and ineptitude, but otherwise we have few sources of confusion now since Illusionary Retribution got changed to Cry of Pain (so removed from every shatter other than F2), and removed from all of axe as well. Now it's mostly torment with bleeds and burn if using torch and staff. > > > > > > > > You can be assured that Elusive Mind is going to get nerfed. > > > > > > > > Mobility - I'd argue the mobility is fine as you have to trait and build for maximising it and/or otherwise sacrifice some other aspects. Likewise with evasion - this is only truly strong in wvw where you can have the endurance regen food and energy sigils are still 50% endurance refund. In pvp I'd argue it's not out of line. I'd sooner see direct damage output nerfed than the survivability - so pushing mesmer more into a light bruiser with sustain through evasion/mobility and lower huge burst damage, than a 100-0 burst+bruiser. In any case, power mirage is more dangerous than pure condi mirage right now. > > > > > > > > Edit - I should add for the record I agree with wanting to move away from the 100-0 gameplay with hard damage avoidance being the only form of defence. > > > > > > Was talking about before patch, read again. If you want to play condition on mirage now, yes you have to play axe, which is less mobility yes, but its braindead boring to play. IDK who in their right mind would want to play axe. > > > > At least axe is aesthetically beautiful and satisfying to use - I never get bored of it simply due to the animations. ;) Sure MH sword has more depth/utility, but I'd say scepter, staff and gs are equally one-dimensional as axe (staff probably the most). > > > > Personally I consider GS2/F1 the most boring thing, but different strokes... > > Lmao I absolutely cannot stand axe. I can barely play greatsword as well, I don't mind it with chrono it's more fun, but with mirage, nah. Maybe I'm just going off mirage tbh, and feeling chrono is just a little too weak to compete with anymore :/ Fair enough I can appreciate that - I can't stand Pistol tbh, but there we go. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 > @"Itz Jay.8941" said: > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > @"Itz Jay.8941" said: > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > @"Itz Jay.8941" said: > > > > > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > > > > > > @"Itz Jay.8941" said: > > > > > > > This has been said before, back in the HoT meta. Mesmer had illusionary reversion nerfed. I do agree that there is a lot of visual noise in sPvP at the moment, mesmer is one of the biggest culprits of this, and it is annoying. However the biggest problem I have is that mesmer has been pushed into playing power burst builds or axe for condition. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So what were left with is another class which is playing burst builds, this is what is not healthy for sPvP. People go on and on about sustain builds and bunker builds, but sadly to an extent they are healthy for the game mode. All the time you are going to be playing duo or solo que. **Condi mirage just had way too much evasion, too many stacks of confusion, stunbreaking and mobility**. None of those issues have been addressed, all they have done is converted the class into playing a squishier build, which can take you from 100-0 a lot faster. Another class which sits off point and picks enemies off with ridiculous burst. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So the problem with everyone running burst builds is that they either synergize extremely well with necros and firebrands or they get absolutely stomped without them. So you can say that it's a swap class issue, but you're wrong. The PoF specs are simply just too powerful, some classes just have to much burst capabilites with and without mobility, others just simply don't work with the offensive +1200 stats that we have. Currently a berserker holo can sit behind a necro and a firebrand and make short work of any squishy comp, and there's nothing you can do about it because you're playing some burst build which is incapable of ressing allies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With a nice balanced sustain meta, not like scourge or firebrand, more like weaver. You have teams that are capable of regrouping and surviving escaping outnumbered situations. That is healthy. What we have now is one person making a mistake, and you're snowballed with burst for the rest of the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know where you're seeing all the confusion unless they're using blinding dissipation and ineptitude, but otherwise we have few sources of confusion now since Illusionary Retribution got changed to Cry of Pain (so removed from every shatter other than F2), and removed from all of axe as well. Now it's mostly torment with bleeds and burn if using torch and staff. > > > > > > > > > > > > You can be assured that Elusive Mind is going to get nerfed. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mobility - I'd argue the mobility is fine as you have to trait and build for maximising it and/or otherwise sacrifice some other aspects. Likewise with evasion - this is only truly strong in wvw where you can have the endurance regen food and energy sigils are still 50% endurance refund. In pvp I'd argue it's not out of line. I'd sooner see direct damage output nerfed than the survivability - so pushing mesmer more into a light bruiser with sustain through evasion/mobility and lower huge burst damage, than a 100-0 burst+bruiser. In any case, power mirage is more dangerous than pure condi mirage right now. > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit - I should add for the record I agree with wanting to move away from the 100-0 gameplay with hard damage avoidance being the only form of defence. > > > > > > > > > > Was talking about before patch, read again. If you want to play condition on mirage now, yes you have to play axe, which is less mobility yes, but its braindead boring to play. IDK who in their right mind would want to play axe. > > > > > > > > I’ve been. Mainly because I never picked it up previously and wanted to try it out. Is it one dimensional? Yup, but when you’re running viper, or grieving, you can really do work because no one expects high crits AND torment/burning hitting big. > > > > > > But it's so boring, fun>damage. > > > > I know. But when dealing with pesky druids on a side mode efficiency>fun. I have fun playing Sw/Sw Staff but necro rips me a new one. > > Nah dude, I'll take a tough fight over efficiency any day, as long as it's more fun. Yeah the sw/sw staff build is kinda cool, kinda fun to play. I like it more than playing greatsword anyway. As for necro well, yeah he likes boons but he kinda rips everyone, it's difficult sometimes to know when he's spamming everything into you until it's to late to do anything about it. > > Scourge is just cancer, let's face it, its the least fun to play with and against, braindead asf. I've just swapped over to weaver after maining condi chrono and theif since forever. I'm finding it really good fun to play surprisingly, nice rotational gameplay, can do some seriously amazing combos with dps, healing and CC. The elite is just so much fun. Can't see myself going back tbh. Hey there’s nothing wrong with that. I just know the faster I win my fights the faster I can plus one at mid, etc and winning is what makes it fun to me. Have you watched any of Cellofrag’s videos? There’s another guy Seven, that has ran core D/D ele and seemed to do pretty well too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 > @"bravan.3876" said: > > Power mesmer never was a thing in PvP since HoT anymore, even before HoT it was barely viable. But since HoT mesmer always had some boring and broken meta (bunkerchrono, condichrono , condimirage, phantasmspam mirage). Just saying Mesmer were always op is just wrong and overhype nerfs not needed at all. When we talk about balance a class and give it skill need back, then we need to make out which builds are a problem and which not. Nerfing the skillbased builds of mesmer (pure glass shatter mesmer) which are not op at all atm will make them completely unplayable. Power Mirage was a damn good build capable of climbing to the top 10 and players had done so with it both last season and this season before the rework. It's just that the previous condition Mirage was a better, less risky build to play and fulfilled the exact same role in conquest. The mesmer rework actually did very little in regards to it's power and playstyle compared to everything else. It's just doesn't have competition from condimirage it used to. Power Mirage is going to be okay after this patch for the most part. The mental anguish nerf really just makes Power Block a no brainer. And even with the nerf to mirror blade, we have the best burst, some of the best mobility, can do it from stealth, and we have portal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math.5123 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 > @"Itz Jay.8941" said: > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > @"Itz Jay.8941" said: > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > @"Itz Jay.8941" said: > > > > > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > > > > > > @"Itz Jay.8941" said: > > > > > > > This has been said before, back in the HoT meta. Mesmer had illusionary reversion nerfed. I do agree that there is a lot of visual noise in sPvP at the moment, mesmer is one of the biggest culprits of this, and it is annoying. However the biggest problem I have is that mesmer has been pushed into playing power burst builds or axe for condition. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So what were left with is another class which is playing burst builds, this is what is not healthy for sPvP. People go on and on about sustain builds and bunker builds, but sadly to an extent they are healthy for the game mode. All the time you are going to be playing duo or solo que. **Condi mirage just had way too much evasion, too many stacks of confusion, stunbreaking and mobility**. None of those issues have been addressed, all they have done is converted the class into playing a squishier build, which can take you from 100-0 a lot faster. Another class which sits off point and picks enemies off with ridiculous burst. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So the problem with everyone running burst builds is that they either synergize extremely well with necros and firebrands or they get absolutely stomped without them. So you can say that it's a swap class issue, but you're wrong. The PoF specs are simply just too powerful, some classes just have to much burst capabilites with and without mobility, others just simply don't work with the offensive +1200 stats that we have. Currently a berserker holo can sit behind a necro and a firebrand and make short work of any squishy comp, and there's nothing you can do about it because you're playing some burst build which is incapable of ressing allies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With a nice balanced sustain meta, not like scourge or firebrand, more like weaver. You have teams that are capable of regrouping and surviving escaping outnumbered situations. That is healthy. What we have now is one person making a mistake, and you're snowballed with burst for the rest of the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know where you're seeing all the confusion unless they're using blinding dissipation and ineptitude, but otherwise we have few sources of confusion now since Illusionary Retribution got changed to Cry of Pain (so removed from every shatter other than F2), and removed from all of axe as well. Now it's mostly torment with bleeds and burn if using torch and staff. > > > > > > > > > > > > You can be assured that Elusive Mind is going to get nerfed. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mobility - I'd argue the mobility is fine as you have to trait and build for maximising it and/or otherwise sacrifice some other aspects. Likewise with evasion - this is only truly strong in wvw where you can have the endurance regen food and energy sigils are still 50% endurance refund. In pvp I'd argue it's not out of line. I'd sooner see direct damage output nerfed than the survivability - so pushing mesmer more into a light bruiser with sustain through evasion/mobility and lower huge burst damage, than a 100-0 burst+bruiser. In any case, power mirage is more dangerous than pure condi mirage right now. > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit - I should add for the record I agree with wanting to move away from the 100-0 gameplay with hard damage avoidance being the only form of defence. > > > > > > > > > > Was talking about before patch, read again. If you want to play condition on mirage now, yes you have to play axe, which is less mobility yes, but its braindead boring to play. IDK who in their right mind would want to play axe. > > > > > > > > I’ve been. Mainly because I never picked it up previously and wanted to try it out. Is it one dimensional? Yup, but when you’re running viper, or grieving, you can really do work because no one expects high crits AND torment/burning hitting big. > > > > > > But it's so boring, fun>damage. > > > > I know. But when dealing with pesky druids on a side mode efficiency>fun. I have fun playing Sw/Sw Staff but necro rips me a new one. > > Nah dude, I'll take a tough fight over efficiency any day, as long as it's more fun. Yeah the sw/sw staff build is kinda cool, kinda fun to play. I like it more than playing greatsword anyway. As for necro well, yeah he likes boons but he kinda rips everyone, it's difficult sometimes to know when he's spamming everything into you until it's to late to do anything about it. > > Scourge is just cancer, let's face it, its the least fun to play with and against, braindead asf. I've just swapped over to weaver after maining condi chrono and theif since forever. I'm finding it really good fun to play surprisingly, nice rotational gameplay, can do some seriously amazing combos with dps, healing and CC. The elite is just so much fun. Can't see myself going back tbh. I enjoy fighting scourges more thani do fighting chronomancers with the chaos line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > Power mesmer never was a thing in PvP since HoT anymore, even before HoT it was barely viable. But since HoT mesmer always had some boring and broken meta (bunkerchrono, condichrono , condimirage, phantasmspam mirage). Just saying Mesmer were always op is just wrong and overhype nerfs not needed at all. When we talk about balance a class and give it skill need back, then we need to make out which builds are a problem and which not. Nerfing the skillbased builds of mesmer (pure glass shatter mesmer) which are not op at all atm will make them completely unplayable. > > Power Mirage was a kitten good build capable of climbing to the top 10 and players had done so with it both last season and this season before the rework. It's just that the previous condition Mirage was a better, less risky build to play and fulfilled the exact same role in conquest. The mesmer rework actually did very little in regards to it's power and playstyle compared to everything else. It's just doesn't have competition from condimirage it used to. > > Power Mirage is going to be okay after this patch for the most part. The mental anguish nerf really just makes Power Block a no brainer. And even with the nerf to mirror blade, we have the best burst, some of the best mobility, can do it from stealth, and we have portal. lel in NA maybe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faux Play.6104 Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > **Yes they can spike every boon for short durations, but some will fall away/run out which is hardly permanent/indefinite.** > > Example - can mesmer maintain *permanent* quickness in pvp, permanent application of aegis as soon as it is removed, or hell permanent resistance? > > Show me permanent resistance in pvp (not wvw) for one, on a mesmer by themselves, for an extended fight (ie not a short fight over in a few seconds). Though I doubt you'll be able to because mesmer has three direct ways of accessing resistance - BD with F5 and Signet of Inspiration rng, and Temporal Enchanter - and anyone traiting glamours in pvp you can laugh at and proceed to kill. > >The fourth is rune of revenant for resistance on heal but this still doesn't make it 100% uptime. So I don't think you know mesmer enough to make a statement like this. > > For the record I never said they can't have high uptime of a lot of boons - but **you stating "have every boon permanently" is a straight exaggeration.** > > > Here are some screenshots after a single quick rotation. > > 1. https://imgur.com/a/sMQwf - 2 minutes of aegis > 2. https://imgur.com/a/LlaOS - 56 seconds of vigor > 3. https://imgur.com/a/QkpD0 - 25 stacks of might for 28 seconds > 4. https://imgur.com/a/qrVP8 - 2 minutes 29 seconds of fury > 5. https://imgur.com/a/EKGgj - 18 seconds of quickness > 6. https://imgur.com/a/y1UjX - 1 minute 14 seconds of swiftness > 7. https://imgur.com/a/U447F - 22 seconds of protection > 8. https://imgur.com/a/yHUZV - 15 seconds of resistance > 9. https://imgur.com/a/VGhVk - 21 seconds of alacrity (while traiting Improved Alacrity which reduces Alacrity Duration by 33%) > > "Short durations" LUL > "You're exaggerating" LUL Don't forget that build has skills that can hit for over 10k damage on light armor while continually puking out AI clutter. That build is pretty broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 > @"Faux Play.6104" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > > **Yes they can spike every boon for short durations, but some will fall away/run out which is hardly permanent/indefinite.** > > > Example - can mesmer maintain *permanent* quickness in pvp, permanent application of aegis as soon as it is removed, or hell permanent resistance? > > > Show me permanent resistance in pvp (not wvw) for one, on a mesmer by themselves, for an extended fight (ie not a short fight over in a few seconds). Though I doubt you'll be able to because mesmer has three direct ways of accessing resistance - BD with F5 and Signet of Inspiration rng, and Temporal Enchanter - and anyone traiting glamours in pvp you can laugh at and proceed to kill. > > >The fourth is rune of revenant for resistance on heal but this still doesn't make it 100% uptime. So I don't think you know mesmer enough to make a statement like this. > > > For the record I never said they can't have high uptime of a lot of boons - but **you stating "have every boon permanently" is a straight exaggeration.** > > > > > > Here are some screenshots after a single quick rotation. > > > > 1. https://imgur.com/a/sMQwf - 2 minutes of aegis > > 2. https://imgur.com/a/LlaOS - 56 seconds of vigor > > 3. https://imgur.com/a/QkpD0 - 25 stacks of might for 28 seconds > > 4. https://imgur.com/a/qrVP8 - 2 minutes 29 seconds of fury > > 5. https://imgur.com/a/EKGgj - 18 seconds of quickness > > 6. https://imgur.com/a/y1UjX - 1 minute 14 seconds of swiftness > > 7. https://imgur.com/a/U447F - 22 seconds of protection > > 8. https://imgur.com/a/yHUZV - 15 seconds of resistance > > 9. https://imgur.com/a/VGhVk - 21 seconds of alacrity (while traiting Improved Alacrity which reduces Alacrity Duration by 33%) > > > > "Short durations" LUL > > "You're exaggerating" LUL > > Don't forget that build has skills that can hit for over 10k damage on light armor while continually puking out AI clutter. That build is pretty broken. Yep. These skills need like 60% damage reductions. https://imgur.com/a/8PhBv - 11k Disenchanter https://imgur.com/a/7zCSp - 11k Defender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 > @"Odik.4587" said: > Out of curiousity i opened that channel and there 0 videos literally... Is that intentional ? xD https://clips.twitch.tv/SucculentUnusualCoffeeUWot This is Chaith fighting against the mesmer whose stream didn't have any videos up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > Out of curiousity i opened that channel and there 0 videos literally... Is that intentional ? xD > > https://clips.twitch.tv/SucculentUnusualCoffeeUWot > > This is Chaith fighting against the mesmer whose stream didn't have any videos up. Okay , thats last time i ever reply you ,its getting ridiculous to discuss anything with you and all mesmer haters . OK COOL PERMABOONS ? Amazing! Is he useful ? Is it viable ? No ? Sadness... Not even in monthly ,much sadness ... What this build capable of doing of all your complaints about mesmer ? Absolutely nothing except stack boons and beat some people 1x1, turret engineer reborn. With alot of downsides that not WORTH ever considering playing or complaint about. Once someone use their brain even at 1% you able to utilize its weakness and play literally 4x5 If thats what concerns you , remove boon amulets ,just as condi duration amulets. Balance would be achieved much faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 > @"Odik.4587" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > Out of curiousity i opened that channel and there 0 videos literally... Is that intentional ? xD > > > > https://clips.twitch.tv/SucculentUnusualCoffeeUWot > > > > This is Chaith fighting against the mesmer whose stream didn't have any videos up. > > Okay , thats last time i ever reply you ,its getting ridiculous to discuss anything with you and all mesmer haters . Mesmers are completely busted. Pretty much everyone agrees on this. The clip has Chaith, a top tier player, saying that mesmer needs to be nerfed. > OK COOL PERMABOONS ? Amazing! Is he useful ? Is it viable ? No ? Sadness... Not even in monthly ,much sadness ... Yes. This mesmer got #4 on the NA leaderboards so obviously it's useful/viable. (LOL) > What this build capable of doing of all your complaints about mesmer ? Absolutely nothing except stack boons and beat some people 1x1, turret engineer reborn. It's good at everything. It is godly at side noding and its ridiculous in team fights as well. > With alot of downsides that not WORTH ever considering playing or complaint about. Once someone use their brain even at 1% you able to utilize its weakness and play literally 4x5 So list "a lot of downsides" because it's hard to find any when Mesmer has: - Multiple AI that can hit for 10k each - Ridiculous mobility on Mirage - Ridiculous utility with Portal - Some of the highest burst in the game - Insanely difficult to kill - Insane amounts of CC - Permanent every boon > If thats what concerns you , remove boon amulets ,just as condi duration amulets. Balance would be achieved much faster. Newsflash! These mesmer builds work without boon duration too! It's a bit of a concern when many teams in the monthly ran 2-3 mesmers. Let that sink in... THREE mesmers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > Out of curiousity i opened that channel and there 0 videos literally... Is that intentional ? xD > > > > > > https://clips.twitch.tv/SucculentUnusualCoffeeUWot > > > > > > This is Chaith fighting against the mesmer whose stream didn't have any videos up. > > > > Okay , thats last time i ever reply you ,its getting ridiculous to discuss anything with you and all mesmer haters . > > Mesmers are completely busted. Pretty much everyone agrees on this. The clip has Chaith, a top tier player, saying that mesmer needs to be nerfed. > > > OK COOL PERMABOONS ? Amazing! Is he useful ? Is it viable ? No ? Sadness... Not even in monthly ,much sadness ... > > Yes. This mesmer got #4 on the NA leaderboards so obviously it's useful/viable. (LOL) > > > What this build capable of doing of all your complaints about mesmer ? Absolutely nothing except stack boons and beat some people 1x1, turret engineer reborn. > > It's good at everything. It is godly at side noding and its ridiculous in team fights as well. > > > With alot of downsides that not WORTH ever considering playing or complaint about. Once someone use their brain even at 1% you able to utilize its weakness and play literally 4x5 > > So list "a lot of downsides" because it's hard to find any when Mesmer has: > - Multiple AI that can hit for 10k each > - Ridiculous mobility on Mirage > - Ridiculous utility with Portal > - Some of the highest burst in the game > - Insanely difficult to kill > - Insane amounts of CC > - Permanent every boon > > > If thats what concerns you , remove boon amulets ,just as condi duration amulets. Balance would be achieved much faster. > > Newsflash! These mesmer builds work without boon duration too! > > It's a bit of a concern when many teams in the monthly ran 2-3 mesmers. Let that sink in... THREE mesmers. Caith ? Is that same person said mesmer been A+ tier because of PHANTASMS being OP? Ahahaha worth listening :) You claiming that build that got top4 have all of this? You are ridiculous and cant be helped anymore ,i suggest you another game tbh. Go lol ? > So list "a lot of downsides" because it's hard to find any when Mesmer has: > - Multiple AI that can hit for 10k each > - Ridiculous mobility on Mirage > - Ridiculous utility with Portal > - Some of the highest burst in the game > - Insanely difficult to kill > - Insane amounts of CC > - Permanent every boon I even listed weaknesses somewhere and if you cant figure out obvious downsides of this BOONSPAMMERCHRONO, im truly pity you .(Insane amount of CC, good joke) Oh yes, highest 'burst' is on DE that overkill ppl with 33-35k crits in PVP. FA ele evaporate you much faster than mesmer leaving you zero time to react ,even here you are failed Noone ever ran that build on monthly AT that reflect how good said build you furiously whining. Your top4 is can tell you he is your father and that would be so for sure. Not to mention that NA legendary is like gold on EU omegalul. Seen 1 game on NA with 3 mesmers, they being destroyed by fb scourge 1 mesmer ,what a surprise. on EU which is clearly have better players people ran 1 mesmer ,another shocking surprise but yes. You intentionally making yourself look stupid ? You completely ignore arguments and keep insisting that memser hacking game and have 10 amulets,2 elite specs in same time. If you would stop being blinded by your hate ,you would see we agree its need nerfs but not overnerf that you fighting for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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