Never go back to HoT style zones, stick to PoF

[Unknown.3976]

 

To those folks that prefer the HoT meta, let's not kid ourselves, if not for amalgamated Gemstone or crystalline ore, HoT meta would have been deserted, most players now don't even bother with the pre-meta events.

 

Still I think Anet should have added more meta events for PoF, something to bring the community together. It's sad that Anet is shifting away from that design.

[nehezbegar.1065]

I think ppl fail to understand my first post. Its not against the meta event on the map, its against the navigational mess the HoT maps were :)

[Warlyx.6732]

Hot maps are awesome design wise but a headache to navigate, Tangled depths with so many caves , like 50 layers, a bad turn and u end in the opposite side of the map. Add mobs every where that slow u down and u push players away

[Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485]

> @nehezbegar.1065 said:

> I think ppl fail to understand my first post. Its not against the meta event on the map, its against the navigational mess the HoT maps were :)

 

I agree, especially when talking tangled depths

The map does a HORRIBLE job pointing you in the right direction.

[Kundry.1249]

I'll reserve judgment for PoF until I've had more experience with them, but HoT maps feel almost revolutionary and PoF maps won't have quite the same depth. I still get frustrated sometimes but you have to at least appreciate the the idea of HoT maps. There is almost a kind of beauty in such uncompromising brutality. Doesn't mean every map/expansion has to be like that though.

 

By the way, who actually thinks repeatable hearts are a good idea? I think not having hearts at all was another strong point of HoT.

[Tyncale.1629]

I am enjoying PoF, but after Mounts the biggest plus I will get from this expansion is my renewed appreciation for the awesomeness and epicness that is HoT. I disliked HoT at first(too hard) but then embraced it, and since then have been back to HoT lots of times. Now that I have seen PoF I know that HoT will never be history to me. Which is a good thing because I still have lots to do there. :)

 

Mind you, I love the different atmosphere of PoF a lot, really digging the desert theme. But missing the Meta events and verticality which makes gliding so much fun.

[Tenrai Senshi.2017]

As they say, variety is the spice of life. I personally prefer the PoF maps as well, but I can understand some people might like the navigational challenges associated with HoT maps, and there may be other ideas we have yet to explore. In the end, if you introduce variety, people will inevitably be able to find something they enjoy, which is always good.

[Raithwall.8201]

i must say i like the map design of pof much more than hot. but there is nothing on that quite beautiful maps. no metas, no hard events - just tons of sand and enemies you can faceroll with any class available.

the expansion is out for two days and i already feel bored at the maps. there is just nothing to do besides the bountys which just die with pressing 1111 in a 50man squad.

there is nothing for guilds, no new fractals, no spvp/wvw content

- but i gotta say the story was really great.

 

[Shampanix.3928]

Maps are amazing yes. But for a great expac PoF is it deserved at least 2 maps with meta event like VB or SW. These maps are huge enough to pack additional meta events in them. Never more DS style, but VB or AB - why not? It's cool to keep balance and variety. Not cool to go only one way killing off part of community that grows around certain type of content.

 

I still love both expacs tho.

[Sittaraha.9361]

I enjoy the maps of both expansions. What I didn't enjoy from HoT was the multiple difficult mobs while trying to traverse the terrain and the "gating" of content (drops, gear, poi) by the meta-events. Maybe they will introduce seasonal/story meta-events on the new maps in the future.

[Vindicus.2130]

I abhor HoT maps and only participated in HP trains after running my first character through the story. Worst maps of all time. PoF is a billion times better. Hopefully Anet returns to its roots in future xpac as it has done with PoF.

 

PS I have no problem with meta events, only the map design in HoT.

[pah.4931]

Personally, I would say continue to mix it up and make as much of it as optional as possible ... that way people can enjoy what they like and avoid what they hate (for the most part). Make laid back, open, green maps that just keep going with beautiful places and things to see and make windy curvy dangerous maps that make me scared to go in there.

[xarallei.4279]

In a few months you are going to see these maps empty because there is no massive meta event to bring people into the map. Once you are done with masteries and personal story that's it. I feel like they went to the extreme in the other direction from HoT. HoT was maybe too much about meta events, this is especially true of Dragon Stand. But they didn't have to go to the other extreme. The maps are big enough that they could have included a cool world boss event chain in at least a few of the maps. Instead it's just exploration map after exploration map. It's kind of disappointing really. And I don't count bounties here. Those aren't the type of events I have in mind.

As for the design of the maps themselves. I do like them a lot. They are beautifully done and using the mounts to get around has been fun so far.

[nehezbegar.1065]

In a few months we gonna be in different maps :) if they go the LS3 route.

[Malediktus.9250]

HoT maps were quite frankly better for replayability. The new maps are gorgeous to look at, but I see 0 replayvalue after the first 2 weeks

[xarallei.4279]

> @nehezbegar.1065 said:

> In a few months we gonna be in different maps :) if they go the LS3 route.

 

Which means they made big maps for nothing? Even when LS maps were out people were still in HoT maps because of the meta events. But I feel there is little reason to stick around these new maps.

[Rain.7543]

> @Vladish.3940 said:

> > @Rain.7543 said:

>

> > I dont know why Anet decided once again to listen to all the complains here on the forums from casual players, who cried out to the skies how confusing the HoT maps are and how they cant enjoy them (most likely without putting even a sliver of effort), because they cant solo them. Well... now you have this. Flat maps with easy mobs across to solo and with no content to do, besides few repetitive hearts, few events here and there and some hero points and mastery points to gather. After that.... nothing. I hope you casual players now enjoy your empty maps in a few days and realise you are not playing a single player game, but a MMO. And for an MMO to be succesful it needs to have content that keeps people occupied for long.

> >

>

> I am an old GW1 vet that have been playing CASUALLY on and off. And I mean casually (no ascended gear, one maxed profession that took 5 years to max and pretty much never had more than 2 gold on me at any point); please keep your kitten and condescending comments to yourself; trying to blame casuals because certain features aren't implemented shows your ignorance. And quite frankly, it's the Non-casual players that create all the fuss about everything, so blame the people that stayed in game hardcore and kept bitching about stuff the entire time. Casuals come and go and in most part, we just don't give enough of a kitten to complain, we take it as it is.

 

If you open the old forums and browse through the HoT section you might change your view on that. Maybe 'casuals' was too broad of a term to use. I didnt want to offend people who feel they are casual players. Nothing wrong with being casual players. What was wrong was the countless topics created since HoT launch from people wanting the content nerfed, because it was too hard for them, they couldnt find any LFGs (for whatever reason), they didnt want to be 'forced' into groups, because again for whatever reason, since we are playing MMO, which in its base have a group content in mind and thats how it should be. They also found the HPs too hard and outcried to the heavens for those to get nerfed, since apparently it was too much of a hassle for them to open the lfg and find 1-2 players to complete them.

 

Because of the -overwhelming- amount of such topics the initial difficulty of HoT was nerfed to the ground... literally. The only hard content, which remained for people who likes challenge to enjoy was now raids and high level fractals and we all now how many topics have been created for easy mode raids as well. Thank god Anet stood firm on their position there that the raids should remain in their current state.

 

The reality is it was casual players (in their own words, not mine) who made Anet nerf the initial difficulty of HoT and took the current map design and content direction with the last LW season and now with PoF, because the topics about nerfs and how hard the content was had literally swarmed the forums. The more hardcore players (as you put it) were actually pretty happy with the difficulty and kept wondering why all the casual players are crying out for, since they had the entire Core Tyria, which was already pretty easy content. So backtracking to present day, now we have those lovely flat maps, which will be empty in a week (at most). You can clearly see where things are heading by the number of topics appearing from people dissapointed by the lack of content. I mean.. have you played the maps? Yes they have some new and shiny content now... hearts, vistas, poi's etc to discover and complete and some events popping here and there, but once completed several times, what there is to do in those maps? The rewards are severely lacking. The hearts doesnt even reward something worthwile, unlike the last LW season. They just give you EXP and KARMA. Yay! Something we have stacked up in the thousands, if not ten of thousands. Events are pretty random and most of them appear at the same time, so you have scaresely populated maps, because half of the people do one event, while the other half another etc. We have exactly what we have in Core Tyria and when the content stop being all new and shiny the maps will be empty in no time.

 

Again... nothing wrong with being a casual player and wanting to play on your own phase or alone if thats your fancy. But you all need to realise that above all this is an MMO game and, as such it needs to have content to keep people occupied for long. Very much like how HoT did it, although maybe tone it down a bit and dont have the metas overtake the entire maps. Look at Maguuma maps, still a ton of people run events, HP's and Meta events. I really dont see this happening in the PoF maps, which is a shame because they are simply beautiful and the addition of mounts could make for such unique and amazing chain and meta events, but all this has been sweped under the rug, because of the outcry, which went for two (!) years, since HoT was released. Unfortunately Anet decided to go for the extremes, and completely revert back from HoT. The best solution would've been if they tried to find the golden middle ground and try to appeal to both groups and have half of the maps be more casual-friendly with more relaxed hearts and events and the other heart more meta heavy, but alas decided otherwise.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

One thing I don't miss about HoT maps is the long event timers. If I want to do Dragon's Stand, I have to arrive early, and plan to be around longer than I sometimes can be. Also, I cannot join an ongoing map. If I try, sometimes I get a, "Map is full" message, and other times I get a message saying something like, "No one can join this map who was not already in it." I should have screened that one, as it was definitely different than the full map message, and I found it odd.

 

I like the PoF maps. However, I believe what would have been best for GW2 as a whole would have been a mix of meta and non-meta. Perhaps, since the maps are as large as they seem to be, there could have been a meta-chain in a portion of the map while leaving other portions of the map as is.

 

There's another thing that might be an issue. The maps are bigger, but has the player-per-map cap increased? If not, then the maps are going to appear more empty even if the map is capped.

 

Some of the core maps have meta events, usually consisting of 1-3 pre-events and a big, static boss. Perhaps a bigger chain, with a more dynamic boss, would work in PoF maps? I don't know.

[WARIORSCHARGEING.2637]

@"Gaile Gray.6029" when are they going to be shutting down the hot maps ??????

[MrRay.3027]

Are there no rewards in the pof maps, that people won't stick around? I don't think that many people did meta events in hot just because they brought them together.

I'm asking because I haven't much time to play in pof maps since launch.

[nehezbegar.1065]

Casual players are the ones who fund the games, not the hardcores, keep that in mind. If it was different we would have 95% of hardcore games, but its otherwise :smile:

 

[Stand The Wall.6987]

I feel like hot maps are for people who actually enjoy exploring.

[nehezbegar.1065]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> I feel like hot maps are for people who actually enjoy exploring.

 

I think for those who dont get dizzy from the map complexity :smile: . PoF maps still have some decent depth to them, hidden stuff etc., perhaps not on the level of HoT, but id take it every day instead of complete of a mess to navigate around HoT maps.

[Ronin.7381]

While I myself prefer non-verticality maps, I need my Smokescale for the ranger D:

[Vladish.3940]

> @Rain.7543 said:

> If you open the old forums and browse through the HoT section you might change your view on that. Maybe 'casuals' was too broad of a term to use. I didnt want to offend people who feel they are casual players. Nothing wrong with being casual players. What was wrong was the countless topics created since HoT launch from people wanting the content nerfed, because it was too hard for them, they couldnt find any LFGs (for whatever reason), they didnt want to be 'forced' into groups, because again for whatever reason, since we are playing MMO, which in its base have a group content in mind and thats how it should be. They also found the HPs too hard and outcried to the heavens for those to get nerfed, since apparently it was too much of a hassle for them to open the lfg and find 1-2 players to complete them.

>

> Because of the -overwhelming- amount of such topics the initial difficulty of HoT was nerfed to the ground... literally. The only hard content, which remained for people who likes challenge to enjoy was now raids and high level fractals and we all now how many topics have been created for easy mode raids as well. Thank god Anet stood firm on their position there that the raids should remain in their current state.

>

> The reality is it was casual players (in their own words, not mine) who made Anet nerf the initial difficulty of HoT and took the current map design and content direction with the last LW season and now with PoF, because the topics about nerfs and how hard the content was had literally swarmed the forums. The more hardcore players (as you put it) were actually pretty happy with the difficulty and kept wondering why all the casual players are crying out for, since they had the entire Core Tyria, which was already pretty easy content. So backtracking to present day, now we have those lovely flat maps, which will be empty in a week (at most). You can clearly see where things are heading by the number of topics appearing from people dissapointed by the lack of content. I mean.. have you played the maps? Yes they have some new and shiny content now... hearts, vistas, poi's etc to discover and complete and some events popping here and there, but once completed several times, what there is to do in those maps? The rewards are severely lacking. The hearts doesnt even reward something worthwile, unlike the last LW season. They just give you EXP and KARMA. Yay! Something we have stacked up in the thousands, if not ten of thousands. Events are pretty random and most of them appear at the same time, so you have scaresely populated maps, because half of the people do one event, while the other half another etc. We have exactly what we have in Core Tyria and when the content stop being all new and shiny the maps will be empty in no time.

>

> Again... nothing wrong with being a casual player and wanting to play on your own phase or alone if thats your fancy. But you all need to realise that above all this is an MMO game and, as such it needs to have content to keep people occupied for long. Very much like how HoT did it, although maybe tone it down a bit and dont have the metas overtake the entire maps. Look at Maguuma maps, still a ton of people run events, HP's and Meta events. I really dont see this happening in the PoF maps, which is a shame because they are simply beautiful and the addition of mounts could make for such unique and amazing chain and meta events, but all this has been sweped under the rug, because of the outcry, which went for two (!) years, since HoT was released. Unfortunately Anet decided to go for the extremes, and completely revert back from HoT. The best solution would've been if they tried to find the golden middle ground and try to appeal to both groups and have half of the maps be more casual-friendly with more relaxed hearts and events and the other heart more meta heavy, but alas decided otherwise.

 

Than maybe instead of complaining about what people did in the past, we should focus on shutting them up now. There are posts popping out left and right about content being too hard, which I completely disagree with. I do solo story because I do it at my own pace, I also suffer from permanent injury in my wrist due to work-related accident that makes my hand-eye coordination atrocious, and I don't even find that content "too hard". It seems everyone wants things just handed too them though. "This is too hard," "this should be nerfed," "this mastery point annoys me because I am too damn uncoordinated to be able to get it and I don't want to put work into it," "there aren't enough mastery points because I can't be bothered to explore and appreciate the maps you designed and I paid for"... the amount of dumb bitching about the silliest of things is astonishing at the time. If you think the changes from HoT were bad (and as I said before, I agree with you that some features should have been kept around, I miss them too), I am afraid to see what future will bring after this wave of bitching. And whatever they want to call themselves, it's rarely actual casual players that do this. I mean, until I started getting actually involved with this game (because I am starting to stream), I could never even be bothered with forums because my game time was in-game, and outside of it I wouldn't waste my time on such trivial matters. And browsing the old the content, seems like a lot of people were not happy with the content, regardless of what they call themselves (both implied casuals and vets), but they changed their minds over time as Anet was improving and adding the content, which is normal. Given I have been casual up to this point, and I am the one agreeing with you about lack of certain content being unsatisfactory for me as well, kinda seem to contradict your claim, is what I am saying. On the same note, I have been playing MMOs for almost 20 years now, and I remember and appreciate times when we HAD TO work for everything in game to earn it. Now the features and rewards are slowly being watered down and handed out to everyone, diminishing their value altogether (imho). But as I said before, we are now starting to troll each other in a pointless banter, while we should focus on trying to show people that (if implemented well) those features were amazing. So cheers to you buddy and gg :)