Core Engineer and Scrapper are Overpowered.

[Vagrant.7206]

If you couldn't tell, the title is sarcasm. Inb4 people who don't read threads before commenting.

 

Seriously though ArenaNet balance team -- is your solution to improving core engineer and scrapper just lowering cooldown times? As if those were the *real* issues stopping scrapper and core engineer from being viable in PvP? Does anybody on the balance team actually play engineer, or are these half-hearted attempts to throw a bone?

 

Please read these threads and consider some actual solutions:

 

* https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/32626/a-very-honest-request-for-next-engineer-balance-patch

* https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/32696/shocked-at-how-neutered-condi-engineer-is-pvp

* https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/32353/dev-can-we-get-some-scrapper-love-and-rework-their-traits-up-their-overall-performance

* https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/32090/med-kit-but-like-photon-forge

* https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/31673/what-our-flamethrower-should-be-like

* https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/31907/pvp-improving-scrapper-and-core-engineer

* https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/30586/questions-from-a-guardian-main

[Coolguy.8702]

Scrapper is definitely fine and needs no more buffs or reworks, I've seen at teams use 1 and do well with it. Core engi is a bit lackluster but the same can be said for most core specs. Try being a rev main before you qq about anet not loving engis

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"Coolguy.8702" said:

> Scrapper is definitely fine and needs no more buffs or reworks, I've seen at teams use 1 and do well with it. Core engi is a bit lackluster but the same can be said for most core specs. Try being a rev main before you qq about anet not loving engis

 

Wait...

 

Have you seen just how buggy scrapper is? The function gyro alone breaks half the time, adaptive armor is glitchy as all hell, and the gyros are terrible at staying near their owner.

 

Also, I wasn't playing the pain olympics, but thanks for starting those up again. I was trying to point out that their nerfs to holo (and other builds) aren't going to make core or scrapper any more viable than they were before. Core and scrapper are so far behind the curve that this will not affect their relative position.

[SilentSam.1589]

plain and simple the engineer needs a serious overhaul

[David.5974]

Solution: nerf more holosmith skills, traits, buff core engi traits, skills. I don't know why they touching core engi traits, if holosmith is too strong , then problem is in holosmith. Why core and scrapper must eat nerfs from broken pof spec.

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"David.5974" said:

> Solution: nerf more holosmith skills, traits, buff core engi traits, skills. I don't know why they touching core engi traits, if holosmith is too strong , then problem is in holosmith. Why core and scrapper must eat nerfs from broken pof spec.

 

Honestly, I don't think buffing existing engi traits/skills alone is enough. Some of them need a serious overhaul.

 

Take for example, grenade kit. It's useful in PvE, and used to be a major player in the PvP scene. Now they're pretty lulzy in PvP because of ground targeting, projectile hate, and slow travel times.

[David.5974]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"David.5974" said:

> > Solution: nerf more holosmith skills, traits, buff core engi traits, skills. I don't know why they touching core engi traits, if holosmith is too strong , then problem is in holosmith. Why core and scrapper must eat nerfs from broken pof spec.

>

> Honestly, I don't think buffing existing engi traits/skills alone is enough. Some of them need a serious overhaul.

>

> Take for example, grenade kit. It's useful in PvE, and used to be a major player in the PvP scene. Now they're pretty lulzy in PvP because of ground targeting, projectile hate, and slow travel times.

 

You are right. I don't say that buff core traits will solve engi state, but you know , what devs should do? There is other classes , other specs with other problems. They can't sit and focus on engi - otherwise this is their job to keep classes fun to play in game modes. So , nerfing elite spec to the ground is better solution then touching core triats. My opinion

[Solaris.2489]

Being able to actually rez/stomp without function gyro going haywire would be a good start. Been bugged for over a month despite countless bug reports, like what the kitten?

[Coolguy.8702]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

 

>

> Wait...

>

> Have you seen just how buggy scrapper is? The function gyro alone breaks half the time, adaptive armor is glitchy as all hell, and the gyros are terrible at staying near their owner.

>

> Also, I wasn't playing the pain olympics, but thanks for starting those up again. I was trying to point out that their nerfs to holo (and other builds) aren't going to make core or scrapper any more viable than they were before. Core and scrapper are so far behind the curve that this will not affect their relative position.

 

So what your saying is Scrapper is viable, just buggy (easy fixes). Get over yourself man, most classes including engi usually have 1-2 good specs a mode. Core engi is viable in pve, no need to buff it and add even more power creep when it’s already on the same level as most other core specs and engi in general in a good place (2 viable ranked builds).

[Axl.8924]

> @"David.5974" said:

> > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > @"David.5974" said:

> > > Solution: nerf more holosmith skills, traits, buff core engi traits, skills. I don't know why they touching core engi traits, if holosmith is too strong , then problem is in holosmith. Why core and scrapper must eat nerfs from broken pof spec.

> >

> > Honestly, I don't think buffing existing engi traits/skills alone is enough. Some of them need a serious overhaul.

> >

> > Take for example, grenade kit. It's useful in PvE, and used to be a major player in the PvP scene. Now they're pretty lulzy in PvP because of ground targeting, projectile hate, and slow travel times.

>

> You are right. I don't say that buff core traits will solve engi state, but you know , what devs should do? There is other classes , other specs with other problems. They can't sit and focus on engi - otherwise this is their job to keep classes fun to play in game modes. So , nerfing elite spec to the ground is better solution then touching core triats. My opinion

 

Nerfing specs into the ground is what got reaper where it is, and where scourge is going.

 

Honestly, can't scrapper have a little time in the limelite? I mean i used to easily gank engis before pof.

 

Also:Gutting the elites is not a good idea at all.If scrapper is not desired in spvp and you gut holosmith, then you got 2 unviable specs for spvp.Like i said in the past:You got to use a surgical precision scalpel cuts, not using a chainsaw.Nerfing whatever trait in core engi might just kill older specs like core and scrapper, and nerfing holo too hard might hurt their position in spvp and pve.

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"Coolguy.8702" said:

> > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

>

> >

> > Wait...

> >

> > Have you seen just how buggy scrapper is? The function gyro alone breaks half the time, adaptive armor is glitchy as all hell, and the gyros are terrible at staying near their owner.

> >

> > Also, I wasn't playing the pain olympics, but thanks for starting those up again. I was trying to point out that their nerfs to holo (and other builds) aren't going to make core or scrapper any more viable than they were before. Core and scrapper are so far behind the curve that this will not affect their relative position.

>

> So what your saying is Scrapper is viable, just buggy (easy fixes). Get over yourself man, most classes including engi usually have 1-2 good specs a mode. Core engi is viable in pve, no need to buff it and add even more power creep when it’s already on the same level as most other core specs and engi in general in a good place (2 viable ranked builds).

 

No, we can't test the viability of something when it's this buggy. Seriously. How am I supposed to know how useful something like adaptive armor is if it doesn't work properly? Your logic makes no sense. Also, you suggest these are easy fixes... function gyro and adaptive armor have had similar bugs since they first launched. You'd think if they were easy fixes, it would've been completely solved by now.

 

Core engineer is... where is it again? It's been nerfed so many times and so complex to play that nobody wants it in PvE any more. And holo is the only viable spec in PvP. If by "2 viable core ranked specs" you mean the [1 spec listed](https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Engineer_-_Bursty_Boi "1 spec listed"), which is pretty lulzy, I highly encourage you to try it out and see where it gets you. With the recent gutting of alchemy, it's got no survivability or mobility and relies entirely on bursts killing opponents. Or you're completely SOL.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"Coolguy.8702" said:

> Scrapper is definitely fine

 

No.

 

[Zaraki.5784]

Core professions must be weaker compared to specializations imo.

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"Zaraki.5784" said:

> Core professions must be weaker compared to specializations imo.

 

Maybe, but what does it say when core professions such as guardian are just dandy in a lot of game modes?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"Zaraki.5784" said:

> Core professions must be weaker compared to specializations imo.

 

Also no.

 

Core Guard, Core Thief, Core Mes, Core Ranger, Core Ele are all good alternatives to elite specs, and Core War __outclasses__ its elite spec. Core professions still carry a lot of clout, just lack diversity unless you play Necro, Revenant, or Engie.

[Zaraki.5784]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"Zaraki.5784" said:

> > Core professions must be weaker compared to specializations imo.

>

> Maybe, but what does it say when core professions such as guardian are just dandy in a lot of game modes?

 

It says that, not being english and using google translate, I don't understand the use of "dandy" word in that phrase.

[Zaraki.5784]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"Zaraki.5784" said:

> > Core professions must be weaker compared to specializations imo.

>

> Also no.

>

> Core Guard, Core Thief, Core Mes, Core Ranger, Core Ele are all good alternatives to elite specs, and Core War __outclasses__ its elite spec. Core professions still carry a lot of clout, just lack diversity unless you play Necro, Revenant, or Engie.

 

Only guard and thief (maybe ele), others you mentioned are usually weaker. And I'm not saying that it's not a fact that some core professions are stronger than their specializations, I'm saying that IMO this shouldn't be permitted, if a core profession is stronger then its specializations, either nerf the core profession or buff the specializations.

 

P.s. Core war stronger than spellbreaker? Ahahahahah.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Understood IMO. Whining about it because "people will whine if game becomes p2w" is a thing.

 

> @"Zaraki.5784" said:

> P.s. Core war stronger than spellbreaker? Ahahahahah.

 

I will defend that belief to my death ~~even if it's a lie~~ >:u

Def better than Zerk though.

 

[Shirlias.8104]

Scrapper needs to be toned down as druid.

Here's the build

 

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Scrapper_-_Conversion_Bruiser

 

Now, the class itself has a very good dps regardless the fact the neck gives no ferocity, and the runes give no power/extradmg/precision/ferocity.

Condicleanse like a boss, and it's not a simple cleanse but a total conversion ( the opposite of corruption ).

 

Definitely a Joke.

 

They should prevent any possibility to recreate what happened with celestial neck, and that's why i do really hope they will remove some necks ( which even though they could have not all celestial stats, with some builds, as you see druid and scrapper, they can allow players to be bunker with a nice dps, which could be high dps on zerk classes ).

[Axl.8924]

Funny.The amount of wreckage a thief can do is funny.You complain yet your elite spec is still good and meta in spvp.

 

Daredevil D/P is viable

Core build S/D viable.

 

You shouldn't complain about that kinda stuff.

[DeceiverX.8361]

Scrapper being as good as it is actually scares me if those bugs get fixed.

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> Funny.The amount of wreckage a thief can do is funny.You complain yet your elite spec is still good and meta in spvp.

>

> Daredevil D/P is viable

> Core build S/D viable.

>

> You shouldn't complain about that kinda stuff.

 

Viable does not mean wrong.

Thief has to be played, while scrapper not that much.

Give it a try if you are not sure about how tanky + condi conversion + however decent dps it has.

 

Unless you think that the current druid is balanced.

[Axl.8924]

> @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > Funny.The amount of wreckage a thief can do is funny.You complain yet your elite spec is still good and meta in spvp.

> >

> > Daredevil D/P is viable

> > Core build S/D viable.

> >

> > You shouldn't complain about that kinda stuff.

>

> Viable does not mean wrong.

> Thief has to be played, while scrapper not that much.

> Give it a try if you are not sure about how tanky + condi conversion + however decent dps it has.

>

> Unless you think that the current druid is balanced.

 

The point is:Regardless of what issues daredevil has with needing unblockables, you can still use it, even if it has issues with the unblockables, and its still very solid.

S/D build is solid too.

 

Also define wrong.

 

Only thing that would be wrong is if:

 

A:its non functional in all 3 game modes and or at least 2 or 3.

B:Is overpowered to the point that it makes everyone angry and cry for nerfs because it over performs in any of the 3 game modes.

C:Is strong or weak because its game mechanics are bad and needs a overhaul in mechanics to fx its massive issues with the amount of problems it has regarding mechanics, such as buggy mechanics preventing them from performing or over performing to the extreme, that cannot be fixed, because if it is, it would break that said class.

[Imperadordf.2687]

Fix the bugs and the terrible AI, and Scrapper is definitely fine. Maybe add some coefficients here and there.

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"Zaraki.5784" said:

> > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > @"Zaraki.5784" said:

> > > Core professions must be weaker compared to specializations imo.

> >

> > Maybe, but what does it say when core professions such as guardian are just dandy in a lot of game modes?

>

> It says that, not being english and using google translate, I don't understand the use of "dandy" word in that phrase.

 

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/fine-and-dandy

 

Comes from an idiom.