Refia Montes.3205 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"Refia Montes.3205" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > @"RabbitUp.8294" said: > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > > > @"SlimChance.6593" said: > > > > > > > Well, a major part of the mesmer design is to confuse the enemy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking at those posts, I'd say they are legitimately confused. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But I do agree on at least one thing, something needs to be done about phantasms after the illusion rework. I'd start with changing Chronophantasma. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe make so only one phantasm per skill use is copied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or maybe make it reduce the cool down of the skill itself after being used once (50%). Making it a more 'active' trait, less passive. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you cap phantasms to three you probably wouldn’t have to touch CP > > > > > > > > > > Take imagined burden. Use iZerker, swap to staff, use iWarlock. Boom 4 phantasms out, but your proposed "fix" would negate half of iWarlock, and that skill is designed around having 2 phantasms be summoned, because each one is pretty weak on its own. > > > > > > > > > > Capping phantasms is the wrong solution. Addressing the poweful synergies between imagined burden, CP, SotE and CS are the answer. > > > > > > > > Changing Chronophantasma hurts the pve dps build for no reason. Same for putting a cap. > > > > > > > > How about targeted pvp nerfs? Nerf the overperforming phantasms directly, or increase Imagined Burden's damage reduction from 25% to 33% for pvp. > > > > > > Well considering chrono was meant as a support spec I think perhaps damage increase isn’t and shouldn’t be the priority for it. If only there was a DPS elite spec.... > > > > Chronomancer was meant to be a support spec? Hmmm... where did you get that? From what I got is that Chronomancer is a master of time with past and future themes intact in it. > > If it wasn’t then it wouldn’t have had 4 wells which gave AoE effects to allies nor would it have had the ability to grant alacrity and quickness to allies like it did. I find it hard to believe ANet would have simply overlooked the amount of quickness a chrono could give out with SoI and traited version. It does give some ally effects, 3 out of 5 wells did. But there's still WoC and GW. Not to mention that most of the support actually comes from being selfish to sharing it with SoI and Inspiration. This doesn't mean it was purely support in this aspect (it is really partly support) cause there's definitely some damage and selfishness there on its other aspects, just that base mesmer was already really good at sharing boons and Chrono compounds this with CS and Alacrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"Refia Montes.3205" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > @"RabbitUp.8294" said: > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > > > @"SlimChance.6593" said: > > > > > > > Well, a major part of the mesmer design is to confuse the enemy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking at those posts, I'd say they are legitimately confused. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But I do agree on at least one thing, something needs to be done about phantasms after the illusion rework. I'd start with changing Chronophantasma. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe make so only one phantasm per skill use is copied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or maybe make it reduce the cool down of the skill itself after being used once (50%). Making it a more 'active' trait, less passive. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you cap phantasms to three you probably wouldn’t have to touch CP > > > > > > > > > > Take imagined burden. Use iZerker, swap to staff, use iWarlock. Boom 4 phantasms out, but your proposed "fix" would negate half of iWarlock, and that skill is designed around having 2 phantasms be summoned, because each one is pretty weak on its own. > > > > > > > > > > Capping phantasms is the wrong solution. Addressing the poweful synergies between imagined burden, CP, SotE and CS are the answer. > > > > > > > > Changing Chronophantasma hurts the pve dps build for no reason. Same for putting a cap. > > > > > > > > How about targeted pvp nerfs? Nerf the overperforming phantasms directly, or increase Imagined Burden's damage reduction from 25% to 33% for pvp. > > > > > > Well considering chrono was meant as a support spec I think perhaps damage increase isn’t and shouldn’t be the priority for it. If only there was a DPS elite spec.... > > > > Chronomancer was meant to be a support spec? Hmmm... where did you get that? From what I got is that Chronomancer is a master of time with past and future themes intact in it. > > If it wasn’t then it wouldn’t have had 4 wells which gave AoE effects to allies nor would it have had the ability to grant alacrity and quickness to allies like it did. I find it hard to believe ANet would have simply overlooked the amount of quickness a chrono could give out with SoI and traited version. Not to mention Rune of the Chronomancer applying quickness when using a well and the original version of the trait All's Well That Ends Well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musu.9205 Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"Refia Montes.3205" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > @"RabbitUp.8294" said: > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > > > @"SlimChance.6593" said: > > > > > > > Well, a major part of the mesmer design is to confuse the enemy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking at those posts, I'd say they are legitimately confused. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But I do agree on at least one thing, something needs to be done about phantasms after the illusion rework. I'd start with changing Chronophantasma. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe make so only one phantasm per skill use is copied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or maybe make it reduce the cool down of the skill itself after being used once (50%). Making it a more 'active' trait, less passive. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you cap phantasms to three you probably wouldn’t have to touch CP > > > > > > > > > > Take imagined burden. Use iZerker, swap to staff, use iWarlock. Boom 4 phantasms out, but your proposed "fix" would negate half of iWarlock, and that skill is designed around having 2 phantasms be summoned, because each one is pretty weak on its own. > > > > > > > > > > Capping phantasms is the wrong solution. Addressing the poweful synergies between imagined burden, CP, SotE and CS are the answer. > > > > > > > > Changing Chronophantasma hurts the pve dps build for no reason. Same for putting a cap. > > > > > > > > How about targeted pvp nerfs? Nerf the overperforming phantasms directly, or increase Imagined Burden's damage reduction from 25% to 33% for pvp. > > > > > > Well considering chrono was meant as a support spec I think perhaps damage increase isn’t and shouldn’t be the priority for it. If only there was a DPS elite spec.... > > > > Chronomancer was meant to be a support spec? Hmmm... where did you get that? From what I got is that Chronomancer is a master of time with past and future themes intact in it. > > If it wasn’t then it wouldn’t have had 4 wells which gave AoE effects to allies nor would it have had the ability to grant alacrity and quickness to allies like it did. I find it hard to believe ANet would have simply overlooked the amount of quickness a chrono could give out with SoI and traited version. first of all, anet did not design HOT spec based on specific role maybe beside druid .also they changed a lot of function during beta to fit what people demand (gotl wasn't a damage buff , tempest wasn't top dps ). chrono became pure support for its quickness and alacrity that were not intended(anet did claim this for quickness ) . the design was more towards to hybrid build with capability of dps ,support and cc ,you know the original idea of gw2 soft role thing . but sadly that didn't and doesn't work in gw2 pve content which still heavily rely on old rpg mechanics . secondly , in pve , unlike scourge has aoe barrier build in their f ability , dps chrono doesn't not offer any support like support chrono does . their roles are distinct. i don't see a problem with chrono with capability of dps role . also don't forgot anet changed 2 traits in chrono line into dps increase traits with mesmer rework patch . and even in pvp , chrono build doesn't take anything for support from chrono line . mesmer doesn't gain anything defensive from chrono line too .after bunker chrono got nerfed into ground , it was condi chrono for years which did nothing for support. i could see its a problem if a build could have both support capability and damage from a elite spec + trait line alone . but chrono is not the case .you pick traits and skills for what you do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musu.9205 Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > @"Refia Montes.3205" said: > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > @"RabbitUp.8294" said: > > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > > > > @"SlimChance.6593" said: > > > > > > > > Well, a major part of the mesmer design is to confuse the enemy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking at those posts, I'd say they are legitimately confused. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But I do agree on at least one thing, something needs to be done about phantasms after the illusion rework. I'd start with changing Chronophantasma. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe make so only one phantasm per skill use is copied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or maybe make it reduce the cool down of the skill itself after being used once (50%). Making it a more 'active' trait, less passive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you cap phantasms to three you probably wouldn’t have to touch CP > > > > > > > > > > > > Take imagined burden. Use iZerker, swap to staff, use iWarlock. Boom 4 phantasms out, but your proposed "fix" would negate half of iWarlock, and that skill is designed around having 2 phantasms be summoned, because each one is pretty weak on its own. > > > > > > > > > > > > Capping phantasms is the wrong solution. Addressing the poweful synergies between imagined burden, CP, SotE and CS are the answer. > > > > > > > > > > Changing Chronophantasma hurts the pve dps build for no reason. Same for putting a cap. > > > > > > > > > > How about targeted pvp nerfs? Nerf the overperforming phantasms directly, or increase Imagined Burden's damage reduction from 25% to 33% for pvp. > > > > > > > > Well considering chrono was meant as a support spec I think perhaps damage increase isn’t and shouldn’t be the priority for it. If only there was a DPS elite spec.... > > > > > > Chronomancer was meant to be a support spec? Hmmm... where did you get that? From what I got is that Chronomancer is a master of time with past and future themes intact in it. > > > > If it wasn’t then it wouldn’t have had 4 wells which gave AoE effects to allies nor would it have had the ability to grant alacrity and quickness to allies like it did. I find it hard to believe ANet would have simply overlooked the amount of quickness a chrono could give out with SoI and traited version. > > Not to mention Rune of the Chronomancer applying quickness when using a well and the original version of the trait All's Well That Ends Well. quickness that only applies to mesmer themselves . original version of that trait is condition removal .well still it was a support trait .but let's be honest , that's pretty much the only support trait chrono line had/has and it did nothing for why chrono was used in raid as a support role . 1/3 traits were/are related to slow (danger time was/ is clearly dps trait ), 1/3 were/are related to shatter (none has benefit for allies ) ,rest traits were/are related to alacrity ,again none has benefit for allies . entire chrono trait line is amplifier for mesmer . chrono has shield as support / defensive weapon and some well for support , but point is , unlike tempest or firebrand , chrono doesn't have build in support abilities with their trait line or f skills . chrono has options for both dps and support , that's what option meant for . from balance stand point , as long as people can't access both support and damage from chrono spec in a single build . it's a good thing to have options . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabbitUp.8294 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 Well of Recall originally had a 45s cooldown and only applied 3s of alacrity. All's Well was condi removal. The only other source of group alacrity was phantasmal avenger which used a bouncing projectile (3 bounces only), so it was unreliable, and only applied 1s of alacrity. Echo of Memory was also a 1-time block. It was player pressure that made chrono into what it launched as, because mesmer's role was to provide quickness in dungeons, and with that mentality that players approached the spec during beta, expecting alacrity to be another buff mesmers will be providing for the group, instead of it being similar to GW1's Fast Casting for the chrono themselves and only shared during key moments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 > @"Refia Montes.3205" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > @"Refia Montes.3205" said: > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > @"RabbitUp.8294" said: > > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > > > > @"SlimChance.6593" said: > > > > > > > > Well, a major part of the mesmer design is to confuse the enemy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking at those posts, I'd say they are legitimately confused. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But I do agree on at least one thing, something needs to be done about phantasms after the illusion rework. I'd start with changing Chronophantasma. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe make so only one phantasm per skill use is copied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or maybe make it reduce the cool down of the skill itself after being used once (50%). Making it a more 'active' trait, less passive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you cap phantasms to three you probably wouldn’t have to touch CP > > > > > > > > > > > > Take imagined burden. Use iZerker, swap to staff, use iWarlock. Boom 4 phantasms out, but your proposed "fix" would negate half of iWarlock, and that skill is designed around having 2 phantasms be summoned, because each one is pretty weak on its own. > > > > > > > > > > > > Capping phantasms is the wrong solution. Addressing the poweful synergies between imagined burden, CP, SotE and CS are the answer. > > > > > > > > > > Changing Chronophantasma hurts the pve dps build for no reason. Same for putting a cap. > > > > > > > > > > How about targeted pvp nerfs? Nerf the overperforming phantasms directly, or increase Imagined Burden's damage reduction from 25% to 33% for pvp. > > > > > > > > Well considering chrono was meant as a support spec I think perhaps damage increase isn’t and shouldn’t be the priority for it. If only there was a DPS elite spec.... > > > > > > Chronomancer was meant to be a support spec? Hmmm... where did you get that? From what I got is that Chronomancer is a master of time with past and future themes intact in it. > > > > If it wasn’t then it wouldn’t have had 4 wells which gave AoE effects to allies nor would it have had the ability to grant alacrity and quickness to allies like it did. I find it hard to believe ANet would have simply overlooked the amount of quickness a chrono could give out with SoI and traited version. > > It does give some ally effects, 3 out of 5 wells did. But there's still WoC and GW. Not to mention that most of the support actually comes from being selfish to sharing it with SoI and Inspiration. This doesn't mean it was purely support in this aspect (it is really partly support) cause there's definitely some damage and selfishness there on its other aspects, just that base mesmer was already really good at sharing boons and Chrono compounds this with CS and Alacrity. You’re forgetting precog for AoE blur on launch, understandable as it’s been needed into irrelevance but still, chrono has 6 Wells, 4/6 are support. I hate repeating myself but here we go, I doubt ANet completely and utterly forgot signet of inspiration as well as its trait would share your boons and thus quickness, they have some pretty funny snafu moments but they aren’t clueless. Core spec redesign was a prelude to elite and many of the changes were made for the HoT specs which we didn’t know of at the time, it wouldn’t be a huge leap of reasoning to believe illusionary inspiration was added for this reason as it didn’t exist before specialisations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabbitUp.8294 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 Well of Precognition was actually aoe unblockable attacks and blur at the end, when chrono was first revealed. And yes, chrono had supportive aspects, because it was based on mesmer, which is a profession with a pronounced emphasis on ally support. Dragonhunter was similar and nobody would consider it to be a support spec. But wells also had cc/disruption aspects, because the theme was duality, messing with the enemies while buffing your allies. But if you look at the traits, specifically alacrity on shatter, Illusionary Reversion (which had no prerequisites initially) and Chronophantasma, you realise that chrono had the same goal as the mesmer rework, to make shatters a more integral part of the gameplay. Combined with Persistence of Memory, you were getting alacrity, recharge reduction and 2 uses out of your phantasms. This playstyle had nothing to do with support, and is actually the one devs pushed during the first article and the stream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musu.9205 Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"Refia Montes.3205" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > @"Refia Montes.3205" said: > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > @"RabbitUp.8294" said: > > > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > > > > > @"SlimChance.6593" said: > > > > > > > > > Well, a major part of the mesmer design is to confuse the enemy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking at those posts, I'd say they are legitimately confused. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But I do agree on at least one thing, something needs to be done about phantasms after the illusion rework. I'd start with changing Chronophantasma. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe make so only one phantasm per skill use is copied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or maybe make it reduce the cool down of the skill itself after being used once (50%). Making it a more 'active' trait, less passive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you cap phantasms to three you probably wouldn’t have to touch CP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take imagined burden. Use iZerker, swap to staff, use iWarlock. Boom 4 phantasms out, but your proposed "fix" would negate half of iWarlock, and that skill is designed around having 2 phantasms be summoned, because each one is pretty weak on its own. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Capping phantasms is the wrong solution. Addressing the poweful synergies between imagined burden, CP, SotE and CS are the answer. > > > > > > > > > > > > Changing Chronophantasma hurts the pve dps build for no reason. Same for putting a cap. > > > > > > > > > > > > How about targeted pvp nerfs? Nerf the overperforming phantasms directly, or increase Imagined Burden's damage reduction from 25% to 33% for pvp. > > > > > > > > > > Well considering chrono was meant as a support spec I think perhaps damage increase isn’t and shouldn’t be the priority for it. If only there was a DPS elite spec.... > > > > > > > > Chronomancer was meant to be a support spec? Hmmm... where did you get that? From what I got is that Chronomancer is a master of time with past and future themes intact in it. > > > > > > If it wasn’t then it wouldn’t have had 4 wells which gave AoE effects to allies nor would it have had the ability to grant alacrity and quickness to allies like it did. I find it hard to believe ANet would have simply overlooked the amount of quickness a chrono could give out with SoI and traited version. > > > > It does give some ally effects, 3 out of 5 wells did. But there's still WoC and GW. Not to mention that most of the support actually comes from being selfish to sharing it with SoI and Inspiration. This doesn't mean it was purely support in this aspect (it is really partly support) cause there's definitely some damage and selfishness there on its other aspects, just that base mesmer was already really good at sharing boons and Chrono compounds this with CS and Alacrity. > > You’re forgetting precog for AoE blur on launch, understandable as it’s been needed into irrelevance but still, chrono has 6 Wells, 4/6 are support. I hate repeating myself but here we go, I doubt ANet completely and utterly forgot signet of inspiration as well as its trait would share your boons and thus quickness, they have some pretty funny snafu moments but they aren’t clueless. > > Core spec redesign was a prelude to elite and many of the changes were made for the HoT specs which we didn’t know of at the time, it wouldn’t be a huge leap of reasoning to believe illusionary inspiration was added for this reason as it didn’t exist before specialisations. i don't know why you mentioned illusionary inspiration .it worked without chrono line , chrono only offered additional quickness resource to make perma quickness possible (only in pve ). how chrono was played in pvp is more likely what anet intended to do with this spec , they also did not intend chrono to maintain 10 man quickness alone .(it was nerfed shortly which resulted disappearance of rev in meta comp ) . they were not clueless , but they did not have specific support role in their vision for hot spec . it was obvious that player pushed anet to change things during beta .and not single time anet ever said chrono was meant to be support spec . it was designed as an amplifier of mesmer and QoL . back to topic , what's wrong for chrono to have a dps build , it's not like it can do any meaningful support while doing damage (that's firebrand btw ) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levetty.1279 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"Refia Montes.3205" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > @"RabbitUp.8294" said: > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > > > @"SlimChance.6593" said: > > > > > > > Well, a major part of the mesmer design is to confuse the enemy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking at those posts, I'd say they are legitimately confused. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But I do agree on at least one thing, something needs to be done about phantasms after the illusion rework. I'd start with changing Chronophantasma. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe make so only one phantasm per skill use is copied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or maybe make it reduce the cool down of the skill itself after being used once (50%). Making it a more 'active' trait, less passive. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you cap phantasms to three you probably wouldn’t have to touch CP > > > > > > > > > > Take imagined burden. Use iZerker, swap to staff, use iWarlock. Boom 4 phantasms out, but your proposed "fix" would negate half of iWarlock, and that skill is designed around having 2 phantasms be summoned, because each one is pretty weak on its own. > > > > > > > > > > Capping phantasms is the wrong solution. Addressing the poweful synergies between imagined burden, CP, SotE and CS are the answer. > > > > > > > > Changing Chronophantasma hurts the pve dps build for no reason. Same for putting a cap. > > > > > > > > How about targeted pvp nerfs? Nerf the overperforming phantasms directly, or increase Imagined Burden's damage reduction from 25% to 33% for pvp. > > > > > > Well considering chrono was meant as a support spec I think perhaps damage increase isn’t and shouldn’t be the priority for it. If only there was a DPS elite spec.... > > > > Chronomancer was meant to be a support spec? Hmmm... where did you get that? From what I got is that Chronomancer is a master of time with past and future themes intact in it. > > If it wasn’t then it wouldn’t have had 4 wells which gave AoE effects to allies nor would it have had the ability to grant alacrity and quickness to allies like it did. I find it hard to believe ANet would have simply overlooked the amount of quickness a chrono could give out with SoI and traited version. Yeah ignore the post where I proved you wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 > @"musu.9205" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > @"Refia Montes.3205" said: > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > @"Refia Montes.3205" said: > > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > > @"RabbitUp.8294" said: > > > > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"SlimChance.6593" said: > > > > > > > > > > Well, a major part of the mesmer design is to confuse the enemy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking at those posts, I'd say they are legitimately confused. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But I do agree on at least one thing, something needs to be done about phantasms after the illusion rework. I'd start with changing Chronophantasma. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe make so only one phantasm per skill use is copied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or maybe make it reduce the cool down of the skill itself after being used once (50%). Making it a more 'active' trait, less passive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you cap phantasms to three you probably wouldn’t have to touch CP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take imagined burden. Use iZerker, swap to staff, use iWarlock. Boom 4 phantasms out, but your proposed "fix" would negate half of iWarlock, and that skill is designed around having 2 phantasms be summoned, because each one is pretty weak on its own. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Capping phantasms is the wrong solution. Addressing the poweful synergies between imagined burden, CP, SotE and CS are the answer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Changing Chronophantasma hurts the pve dps build for no reason. Same for putting a cap. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How about targeted pvp nerfs? Nerf the overperforming phantasms directly, or increase Imagined Burden's damage reduction from 25% to 33% for pvp. > > > > > > > > > > > > Well considering chrono was meant as a support spec I think perhaps damage increase isn’t and shouldn’t be the priority for it. If only there was a DPS elite spec.... > > > > > > > > > > Chronomancer was meant to be a support spec? Hmmm... where did you get that? From what I got is that Chronomancer is a master of time with past and future themes intact in it. > > > > > > > > If it wasn’t then it wouldn’t have had 4 wells which gave AoE effects to allies nor would it have had the ability to grant alacrity and quickness to allies like it did. I find it hard to believe ANet would have simply overlooked the amount of quickness a chrono could give out with SoI and traited version. > > > > > > It does give some ally effects, 3 out of 5 wells did. But there's still WoC and GW. Not to mention that most of the support actually comes from being selfish to sharing it with SoI and Inspiration. This doesn't mean it was purely support in this aspect (it is really partly support) cause there's definitely some damage and selfishness there on its other aspects, just that base mesmer was already really good at sharing boons and Chrono compounds this with CS and Alacrity. > > > > You’re forgetting precog for AoE blur on launch, understandable as it’s been needed into irrelevance but still, chrono has 6 Wells, 4/6 are support. I hate repeating myself but here we go, I doubt ANet completely and utterly forgot signet of inspiration as well as its trait would share your boons and thus quickness, they have some pretty funny snafu moments but they aren’t clueless. > > > > Core spec redesign was a prelude to elite and many of the changes were made for the HoT specs which we didn’t know of at the time, it wouldn’t be a huge leap of reasoning to believe illusionary inspiration was added for this reason as it didn’t exist before specialisations. > > i don't know why you mentioned illusionary inspiration .it worked without chrono line , chrono only offered additional quickness resource to make perma quickness possible (only in pve ). how chrono was played in pvp is more likely what anet intended to do with this spec , they also did not intend chrono to maintain 10 man quickness alone .(it was nerfed shortly which resulted disappearance of rev in meta comp ) . they were not clueless , but they did not have specific support role in their vision for hot spec . it was obvious that player pushed anet to change things during beta .and not single time anet ever said chrono was meant to be support spec . it was designed as an amplifier of mesmer and QoL . > > back to topic , what's wrong for chrono to have a dps build , it's not like it can do any meaningful support while doing damage (that's firebrand btw ) . Sharing protection, might and fury was pretty much the only decent thing you could do on core with SoI and the trait, other boons were OK but not relevant in the grand scheme of things. Remember mesmer only had time warp and furious interruption as sources of quickness so you could pretty much say it had no access to quickness which is a significant boon to share, in fact it is probably the best boon to share especially to classes with longer casts. While I agree ANet probably didn’t plan for chrono to provide enough quickness to 10 people (outside of TW obviously) it is very clear they did intend for quickness sharing via these interactions. Wells were advertised as giving benefits to allies for standing in them, if that’s not support then what is it? I guess you could stretch it to utility but it amounts to the same thing. Why shouldn’t chrono have a DPS build? Elite specs have been suffering from support specs doing damage, just look at the state of scourge, FB and tempest, if a spec can give as good as or almost as good damage as the damage elite spec while maintaining its support advantage then it invalidates the damage elite. The elite specs need to have consistency and purity of purpose, we are starting to get there now there’s more than 1 but it won’t be until the 3rd is released that elite specs can truly see the specialisation within role. Edit: yes the traits weren’t exclusively support but many of them did increase the ability to support and applying slow to enemies is support by debuffing enemies, there were some damage increases in there but 1 swallow doesn’t make a summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levetty.1279 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"musu.9205" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > @"Refia Montes.3205" said: > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > @"Refia Montes.3205" said: > > > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > > > @"RabbitUp.8294" said: > > > > > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"SlimChance.6593" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Well, a major part of the mesmer design is to confuse the enemy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking at those posts, I'd say they are legitimately confused. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But I do agree on at least one thing, something needs to be done about phantasms after the illusion rework. I'd start with changing Chronophantasma. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe make so only one phantasm per skill use is copied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or maybe make it reduce the cool down of the skill itself after being used once (50%). Making it a more 'active' trait, less passive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you cap phantasms to three you probably wouldn’t have to touch CP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take imagined burden. Use iZerker, swap to staff, use iWarlock. Boom 4 phantasms out, but your proposed "fix" would negate half of iWarlock, and that skill is designed around having 2 phantasms be summoned, because each one is pretty weak on its own. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Capping phantasms is the wrong solution. Addressing the poweful synergies between imagined burden, CP, SotE and CS are the answer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Changing Chronophantasma hurts the pve dps build for no reason. Same for putting a cap. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How about targeted pvp nerfs? Nerf the overperforming phantasms directly, or increase Imagined Burden's damage reduction from 25% to 33% for pvp. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well considering chrono was meant as a support spec I think perhaps damage increase isn’t and shouldn’t be the priority for it. If only there was a DPS elite spec.... > > > > > > > > > > > > Chronomancer was meant to be a support spec? Hmmm... where did you get that? From what I got is that Chronomancer is a master of time with past and future themes intact in it. > > > > > > > > > > If it wasn’t then it wouldn’t have had 4 wells which gave AoE effects to allies nor would it have had the ability to grant alacrity and quickness to allies like it did. I find it hard to believe ANet would have simply overlooked the amount of quickness a chrono could give out with SoI and traited version. > > > > > > > > It does give some ally effects, 3 out of 5 wells did. But there's still WoC and GW. Not to mention that most of the support actually comes from being selfish to sharing it with SoI and Inspiration. This doesn't mean it was purely support in this aspect (it is really partly support) cause there's definitely some damage and selfishness there on its other aspects, just that base mesmer was already really good at sharing boons and Chrono compounds this with CS and Alacrity. > > > > > > You’re forgetting precog for AoE blur on launch, understandable as it’s been needed into irrelevance but still, chrono has 6 Wells, 4/6 are support. I hate repeating myself but here we go, I doubt ANet completely and utterly forgot signet of inspiration as well as its trait would share your boons and thus quickness, they have some pretty funny snafu moments but they aren’t clueless. > > > > > > Core spec redesign was a prelude to elite and many of the changes were made for the HoT specs which we didn’t know of at the time, it wouldn’t be a huge leap of reasoning to believe illusionary inspiration was added for this reason as it didn’t exist before specialisations. > > > > i don't know why you mentioned illusionary inspiration .it worked without chrono line , chrono only offered additional quickness resource to make perma quickness possible (only in pve ). how chrono was played in pvp is more likely what anet intended to do with this spec , they also did not intend chrono to maintain 10 man quickness alone .(it was nerfed shortly which resulted disappearance of rev in meta comp ) . they were not clueless , but they did not have specific support role in their vision for hot spec . it was obvious that player pushed anet to change things during beta .and not single time anet ever said chrono was meant to be support spec . it was designed as an amplifier of mesmer and QoL . > > > > back to topic , what's wrong for chrono to have a dps build , it's not like it can do any meaningful support while doing damage (that's firebrand btw ) . > Why shouldn’t chrono have a DPS build? Elite specs have been suffering from support specs doing damage, just look at the state of scourge, FB and tempest, if a spec can give as good as or almost as good damage as the damage elite spec while maintaining its support advantage then it invalidates the damage elite. The elite specs need to have consistency and purity of purpose, we are starting to get there now there’s more than 1 but it won’t be until the 3rd is released that elite specs can truly see the specialisation within role. Except pure support Chrono still does terrible DPS, DPS/Hybrid does about as much damage as other support builds and Pure DPS provides very little support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curunen.8729 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 > @"apharma.3741" said: >The elite specs need to have consistency and purity of purpose, we are starting to get there now there’s more than 1 but it won’t be until the 3rd is released that elite specs can truly see the specialisation within role. I agree with this. Once the next expansion and third elite spec hit, distinction between roles/purpose will become clearer or at least will be enabled to be seen more clearly. Right now with only two there is scope for overlap, especially as the first (chrono) was initially simply a band-aid to all of core mesmer problems and now since the phantasm rework is itself finally able to become better defined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musu.9205 Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"musu.9205" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > @"Refia Montes.3205" said: > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > @"Refia Montes.3205" said: > > > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > > > @"RabbitUp.8294" said: > > > > > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"SlimChance.6593" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Well, a major part of the mesmer design is to confuse the enemy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking at those posts, I'd say they are legitimately confused. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But I do agree on at least one thing, something needs to be done about phantasms after the illusion rework. I'd start with changing Chronophantasma. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe make so only one phantasm per skill use is copied. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or maybe make it reduce the cool down of the skill itself after being used once (50%). Making it a more 'active' trait, less passive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you cap phantasms to three you probably wouldn’t have to touch CP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take imagined burden. Use iZerker, swap to staff, use iWarlock. Boom 4 phantasms out, but your proposed "fix" would negate half of iWarlock, and that skill is designed around having 2 phantasms be summoned, because each one is pretty weak on its own. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Capping phantasms is the wrong solution. Addressing the poweful synergies between imagined burden, CP, SotE and CS are the answer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Changing Chronophantasma hurts the pve dps build for no reason. Same for putting a cap. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How about targeted pvp nerfs? Nerf the overperforming phantasms directly, or increase Imagined Burden's damage reduction from 25% to 33% for pvp. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well considering chrono was meant as a support spec I think perhaps damage increase isn’t and shouldn’t be the priority for it. If only there was a DPS elite spec.... > > > > > > > > > > > > Chronomancer was meant to be a support spec? Hmmm... where did you get that? From what I got is that Chronomancer is a master of time with past and future themes intact in it. > > > > > > > > > > If it wasn’t then it wouldn’t have had 4 wells which gave AoE effects to allies nor would it have had the ability to grant alacrity and quickness to allies like it did. I find it hard to believe ANet would have simply overlooked the amount of quickness a chrono could give out with SoI and traited version. > > > > > > > > It does give some ally effects, 3 out of 5 wells did. But there's still WoC and GW. Not to mention that most of the support actually comes from being selfish to sharing it with SoI and Inspiration. This doesn't mean it was purely support in this aspect (it is really partly support) cause there's definitely some damage and selfishness there on its other aspects, just that base mesmer was already really good at sharing boons and Chrono compounds this with CS and Alacrity. > > > > > > You’re forgetting precog for AoE blur on launch, understandable as it’s been needed into irrelevance but still, chrono has 6 Wells, 4/6 are support. I hate repeating myself but here we go, I doubt ANet completely and utterly forgot signet of inspiration as well as its trait would share your boons and thus quickness, they have some pretty funny snafu moments but they aren’t clueless. > > > > > > Core spec redesign was a prelude to elite and many of the changes were made for the HoT specs which we didn’t know of at the time, it wouldn’t be a huge leap of reasoning to believe illusionary inspiration was added for this reason as it didn’t exist before specialisations. > > > > i don't know why you mentioned illusionary inspiration .it worked without chrono line , chrono only offered additional quickness resource to make perma quickness possible (only in pve ). how chrono was played in pvp is more likely what anet intended to do with this spec , they also did not intend chrono to maintain 10 man quickness alone .(it was nerfed shortly which resulted disappearance of rev in meta comp ) . they were not clueless , but they did not have specific support role in their vision for hot spec . it was obvious that player pushed anet to change things during beta .and not single time anet ever said chrono was meant to be support spec . it was designed as an amplifier of mesmer and QoL . > > > > back to topic , what's wrong for chrono to have a dps build , it's not like it can do any meaningful support while doing damage (that's firebrand btw ) . > > Sharing protection, might and fury was pretty much the only decent thing you could do on core with SoI and the trait, other boons were OK but not relevant in the grand scheme of things. Remember mesmer only had time warp and furious interruption as sources of quickness so you could pretty much say it had no access to quickness which is a significant boon to share, in fact it is probably the best boon to share especially to classes with longer casts. > > While I agree ANet probably didn’t plan for chrono to provide enough quickness to 10 people (outside of TW obviously) it is very clear they did intend for quickness sharing via these interactions. Wells were advertised as giving benefits to allies for standing in them, if that’s not support then what is it? I guess you could stretch it to utility but it amounts to the same thing. > > Why shouldn’t chrono have a DPS build? Elite specs have been suffering from support specs doing damage, just look at the state of scourge, FB and tempest, if a spec can give as good as or almost as good damage as the damage elite spec while maintaining its support advantage then it invalidates the damage elite. The elite specs need to have consistency and purity of purpose, we are starting to get there now there’s more than 1 but it won’t be until the 3rd is released that elite specs can truly see the specialisation within role. > > Edit: yes the traits weren’t exclusively support but many of them did increase the ability to support and applying slow to enemies is support by debuffing enemies, there were some damage increases in there but 1 swallow doesn’t make a summer. you have to consider what players take as useful in raid doesn't mean what anet takes as useful for all gamemode . they did design chrono with some support capability . but juts like most hot elite specs from hot , they designed them as hybrid . they didn't even sell tempest as pure support , they were selling it as front line fighter with support capabilities . it may have turned out to be bad idea for some reasons but they certainly didn't think gw2 need pure support spec , its still true with pof elite spec . I already pointed out the support abilities from chrono are not used by dps build . slow is meaningless in pve . unlike tempest or scourge or firebrand , chrono does have to choose between support and dps . it simply doesn't have any support build in its class mechanic . look at firebrand , no matter what build you are using , you can press f2 and do a lot of support with it . that's not the case with chrono . so i don't think your examples are meaningful here .i meant , hey we already have dps chrono and support chrono in same raid comp , no one complaint about dps chrono replaced support chrono .whatever damage this comp could have done to game health ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musu.9205 Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 btw i mainly talk about pve , since pvp roles are much different . even bunker builds are more than just support . while i agree that elite spec should be more towards purity of purpose . but we also have to remember how trait system works .the purity of purpose is good coz we don't get those master of all build flying around . as long as you have to pick full dps or support traits to make a solid build , it will be fine . unless you want to rework entire trait system to 1-2 path for each trait line to perform one specific role like something wow does , i don't say we need that kind of restriction yet . tho in the future , with more and more elite spec , anet might do that for good reasons . but still not now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levetty.1279 Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 Anet could go crazy and keep Chrono as DPS and make the next elite spec that Bard that people keep asking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fatal.8146 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 I'm kind of confused here everyone is complaining about the gs builds that are pretty telegraphed once you know what your looking for. The real problem build is the staff/ sword shield build with disenchanted. The higher I climb I rarely see greatsword being used. It's meme and requires berserker Amulet which is squishy af. The staff build uses knights or paladins and outputs insane pressure while being tanky. Is this a place where just low silver players complain after a few matches? Gs one shot build worked for me while climbing then I noticed players being able to see it coming and if you miss it takes a lot of CDs so your screwed most of the time. Other mentioned build is insanely broken and I feel bad playing it honestly. Edit: Forgot to mention that imagined burden wasn't even used in the meme gs build.. staff build uses SoE but if they decide to actually use it is when they are actually vulnerable. CP seems to be a problem trait really and while I have no input on how this could be balanced just trying to point out that the traits everyone is complaining about mainly IB aren't even really used.. Not trying to stop a nerf just saying calling for a nerf on the wrong build the staff build mentioned is actually disgusting especially when played well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 How much phantasm generation does mirage have? Ik that chrono can make quite a few phantasms but i was wondering if the main abuser of the new phantasms is the chrono. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriOri.8724 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > How much phantasm generation does mirage have? Ik that chrono can make quite a few phantasms but i was wondering if the main abuser of the new phantasms is the chrono. Mirage has strictly less than chrono. No alacrity in mirage, so CDs are longer. No CP in mirage, so phantasms only get summoned once per skill. No CS in mirage, so no doubling up on phantasm skills/SotE. Chrono is the one where phantasm spam comes from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > How much phantasm generation does mirage have? Ik that chrono can make quite a few phantasms but i was wondering if the main abuser of the new phantasms is the chrono. > > Mirage has strictly less than chrono. No alacrity in mirage, so CDs are longer. No CP in mirage, so phantasms only get summoned once per skill. No CS in mirage, so no doubling up on phantasm skills/SotE. Chrono is the one where phantasm spam comes from. Cant they just make it so cp doesnt spawn clones then? Like sure it will hurt clone generation pvp and pve but like u get alot of dmg from the phantasms to compensate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriOri.8724 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > How much phantasm generation does mirage have? Ik that chrono can make quite a few phantasms but i was wondering if the main abuser of the new phantasms is the chrono. > > > > Mirage has strictly less than chrono. No alacrity in mirage, so CDs are longer. No CP in mirage, so phantasms only get summoned once per skill. No CS in mirage, so no doubling up on phantasm skills/SotE. Chrono is the one where phantasm spam comes from. > > Cant they just make it so cp doesnt spawn clones then? Like sure it will hurt clone generation pvp and pve but like u get alot of dmg from the phantasms to compensate. While I do want that change to be made to CP, it wouldn't solve the problem. You still have insane synergy with CP and SotE. Which would still allow you to easily get out 4 of any phantasm or more. I don't think the problem would be quite so bad if phantasms were balanced in how much damage they deal, but having 4 defenders out, throwing taunt around and dealing lots of damage, or having 4 disenchanters out with their unblockable mass strips on top of damage, all in a short timespan, is pretty ridiculous. And simply changing CP so that phantasms don't de-spawn into clones won't address that at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PierPiero.9142 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 I think that it is normal. people is frustrated. trying to go 1vs 1 against a mesmer is a pain for many profession and i think it is unfair. I play quite only mesmer since season 2 becouse it is really fun and it is also really rewarding. When i go in wvw or in spvp with my main (engineer) , even if i play holo or scrapper, i have to completely outplay a mesmer to kill him. it is not fair. Mesmer is too forgiving in my opinion and people complain on and lose reality . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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