The Cure For Roaming & Those Alike

[Swagger.1459]

@"Whiteout.1975" "We as a guild overall, don't look to blob. We like to Roam and occasionally havoc. Which is why I made this post mostly in regards to roaming. In an effort to help that style of group play out and help balance it in regards to the other styles."

 

I think many of us understand that, and some of us share the same feelings. However, nothing you suggested changes the current state of roaming. Peak hours players will, more than likely, encounter zergs at some point. WvW was primarily intended to be a RvR mode where hundreds of players are playing at once. The current set of maps is mostly tailored to zerg play, and generally larger numbers win, so changing the PPK does not change the current state of roaming. Even if you increase the PPK for a flagged "roamer" or small group, it still doesn't change what roamers don't like about wvw.

 

The dev was talking about the roamer thing as an idea to identify a player preference for the alliance grouping, They are not going to needlessly complicate the scoring system because it's already in a good place. Would it not be more impactful to add in a bunch of maps (see what Camelot Unchained is doing?) with open area objectives (as opposed to trying to beat down t3 walls for 10 minutes, that gives a zerg a lot of time to squash ya), and events, that are more tailored to fast moving solo and smaller groups? So you have 4 maps that are good for zerg play. You add in a few maps that require solo and small groups to get in there and do their thing to score points, and will more often than not, encounter other solo players or small groups...

 

Next, lets talk about viable roaming builds. There aren't many, that are fun anyway. This game is notorious for slow changes, and the profession needle only moves every few years when an xpac drops. So it would stand to reason that the devs take a good look at providing more roamer style skills and build options..

 

Again, I think we understand your good intentions, but your ideas basically keep things in the same state.

 

[Whiteout.1975]

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> @"Whiteout.1975" "We as a guild overall, don't look to blob. We like to Roam and occasionally havoc. Which is why I made this post mostly in regards to roaming. In an effort to help that style of group play out and help balance it in regards to the other styles."

>

> I think many of us understand that, and some of us share the same feelings. However, nothing you suggested changes the current state of roaming. Peak hours players will, more than likely, encounter zergs at some point. WvW was primarily intended to be a RvR mode where hundreds of players are playing at once. The current set of maps is mostly tailored to zerg play, and generally larger numbers win, so changing the PPK does not change the current state of roaming. Even if you increase the PPK for a flagged "roamer" or small group, it still doesn't change what roamers don't like about wvw.

>

> The dev was talking about the roamer thing as an idea to identify a player preference for the alliance grouping, They are not going to needlessly complicate the scoring system because it's already in a good place. Would it not be more impactful to add in a bunch of maps (see what Camelot Unchained is doing?) with open area objectives (as opposed to trying to beat down t3 walls for 10 minutes, that gives a zerg a lot of time to squash ya), and events, that are more tailored to fast moving solo and smaller groups? So you have 4 maps that are good for zerg play. You add in a few maps that require solo and small groups to get in there and do their thing to score points, and will more often than not, encounter other solo players or small groups...

>

> Next, lets talk about viable roaming builds. There aren't many, that are fun anyway. This game is notorious for slow changes, and the profession needle only moves every few years when an xpac drops. So it would stand to reason that the devs take a good look at providing more roamer style skills and build options..

>

> Again, I think we understand your good intentions, but your ideas basically keep things in the same state.

>

 

Yea I know you are one of the one's that understands man. I honestly appreciate that. So thanks.

 

The PPK thing, was just a way to give the Roamer(s) more a higher feeling a Self Worth basically. To kinda sum things up in that regard. But if it's too difficult to do, then yea forget it for now.

 

Right, I got what the Dev was saying there. But what I was trying to get at, for instance was... **What if say 20 players in a WvW guild or alliance mark themselves as roamers and say 15 of those player's run around together... should they even be considered roamers at that point... if they are running around in a 15 man group?** I really like the whole Identity thing personally, but at the same time I don't want people to take advantage of it.

 

Yea, so I would at least agree to look at other games such as perhaps Camelot Unchained for Idea's that could potentially help this game :)

I think having smaller maps that can also impact World Scoring could be a good Idea to help separate small group play from large group play. Maybe have a cap of 1-15 players for instance and have them in a similar size to maybe the Courtyard PvP map: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Courtyard. And You can fight for things that benefit your world such as extra supply supply. **OR** even having area's that only allow so many players inside them and you would enter them similar to how you enter through a keep or tower teleportation doorway. Except its always open to enemies and allies and can never be claimed in such a way that it would divided the two from one another like towers and keeps currently do.

 

Yea I agree with the viable roaming builds. I gave up on balance myself. It takes too long and when it does happen most of the Professions that get nerfed also receive buffs in other places as well. So you basically get a double edged sword thing going on... IMO, when you buff and nerf at the same time. You are no longer playing with all the same variables from which the nerfs may have derived from in the first place. So I think they just need to focus on nerfing more than anything right now. Then focus more on buffing when stuff is more balanced :)

 

 

[MissSinfully.2478]

For anyone wondering, Death Circus [Cirq] previously was Brutal Enclave [Nors]. Brutal left and the guild was passed to Gamma and we requested a name change. I don't WvW, so any opinions I have on that subject and related "best of" status are irrelevant. The guild mass immigrated to Blackgate from Crystal Desert about... two years ago I want to say? I'm coming up on four years here, and I feel like it's been more than a year.

[msalakka.4653]

Rewards?

 

I've been a solo roamer and defender since late 2012 and it's not for the blues and greens. The unpredictable nature of roaming is what made it so addictive. I don't care one iota about tickets or participation or wxp or karma or whatever the latest P2W recipe or new map currency is.

 

I just want good fights. I want the unpredictability of not knowing whether I am facing a power phantasm mesmer, a power shatter, a Blackwater... I don't want to look at the class symbol and instantly know it's probably running one of the only two viable builds that class has.

 

I guess it's indicative of the mindset of most of the playerbase nowadays that it's not enough that you get to spend hours on end participating in engaging content, you should get rewards for doing it as well.

 

No amount of rewards will help if the fights themselves are crap. But I suppose in the absence of any semblance of class balancing, rewards are all that's left.

 

And frankly, whenever I hear the term "roaming guild", I know it's just 5 guys with the same tag chasing down solo roamers.

[Whiteout.1975]

> @"msalakka.4653" said:

> Rewards?

> I just want good fights. I want the unpredictability of not knowing whether I am facing a power phantasm mesmer, a power shatter, a Blackwater... I don't want to look at the class symbol and instantly know it's probably running one of the only two viable builds that class has.

I agree and I think we all want good fights as well as a WvW community.

I originally went for buffing PPK because I too did not care about the rewards as much. I also cared about the fights. But I do think roamers deserve to feel more valued than than they have been. If balance is bad and also you don't feel like you're really fighting for anything else that truly matters to you... Then what's the point? But I do have to agree with other's when they say reward's in Roaming arn't nearly as good as such you would get in Zerging or Blobing around. So anything that give's us more of a reason to fight, the better. Also, the better the game will be if balance ever does get better.

> I guess it's indicative of the mindset of most of the playerbase nowadays that it's not enough that you get to spend hours on end participating in engaging content, you should get rewards for doing it as well.

Well that's just the problem. Most Roamers and so forth, that I know. Feel like it's not really that **Engaging** anymore. So Yea, it's like at the very least the rewards can be better if the balance isn't.

So, it's as you go on to say here...

>But I suppose in the absence of any semblance of class balancing, rewards are all that's left.

Yep.

> And frankly, whenever I hear the term "roaming guild", I know it's just 5 guys with the same tag chasing down solo roamers.

Oh Yea, Well that's just WvW for you lol. It doesn't always allow for straight up 1v1's to happen. Though for us if you wanna 1v1 and made an attempt to voice that in whispers or do certain emotes in a reasonable manner. We would often let you. On the other hand, if your using some cheesy 1v1 specific build and expect us to take you seriously. Yea, we will probably just run you over and not feel bad about it tbh... If your even worth chasing anyways lol.

 

Ultimately though, I just like playing with friends. Helping people as I can and having fun. So I would normally only Solo if not enough friends were online personally.

Anyways, thanks for the input :)

 

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Whiteout.1975" said:

> > And frankly, whenever I hear the term "roaming guild", I know it's just 5 guys with the same tag chasing down solo roamers.

> Oh Yea, Well that's just WvW for you lol. It doesn't always allow for straight up 1v1's to happen. Though for us if you wanna 1v1 and made an attempt to voice that in whispers or do certain emotes in a reasonable manner. We would often let you. On the other hand, if your using some cheesy 1v1 specific build and expect us to take you seriously. Yea, we will probably just run you over and not feel bad about it tbh... If your even worth chasing anyways lol.

 

any build that has a chance of escaping the 5, can be considered cheesy for a 1 vs 1. so you expect people to run solo in a freekill build and then take the time to whisper you / use and emote - they really got time for that when 5 people jump them :D. regardless of the build the solo person has, the 5 people will allways be more cheesy in 5 vs 1, just for running higher numbers than needed. its easy to blame others running no skill / cheese build if you got 4 friends protecting you.

IMO this is actually one of the biggest issues with roaming, that for running solo you basically need to run such builds to avoid 'roaming guilds'.

 

for instance if we had a roaming mastery that whenever we are only 1 or because we are generous 2 people in a 1500 range radius, then we get a special action key that grants stealth for 30s and 30s cd , only usable out of combat. then we would see alot more duel builds solo roaming and not just mainly ones with extreme mobility or stealth access. because you could avoid larger groups as long as you are solo/duo. and while stealthed you cant flip anything, cant kill a dolyak etc so it wouldnt really be a PPT issue. maybe disable the key while marked so you cant use it in the 5 minute window after a keep is flipped as a mesmer.

 

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Whiteout.1975" said:

> > > And frankly, whenever I hear the term "roaming guild", I know it's just 5 guys with the same tag chasing down solo roamers.

> > Oh Yea, Well that's just WvW for you lol. It doesn't always allow for straight up 1v1's to happen. Though for us if you wanna 1v1 and made an attempt to voice that in whispers or do certain emotes in a reasonable manner. We would often let you. On the other hand, if your using some cheesy 1v1 specific build and expect us to take you seriously. Yea, we will probably just run you over and not feel bad about it tbh... If your even worth chasing anyways lol.

>

> any build that has a chance of escaping the 5, can be considered cheesy for a 1 vs 1. so you expect people to run solo in a freekill build and then take the time to whisper you / use and emote - they really got time for that when 5 people jump them :D. regardless of the build the solo person has, the 5 people will allways be more cheesy in 5 vs 1, just for running higher numbers than needed. its easy to blame others running no skill / cheese build if you got 4 friends protecting you.

> IMO this is actually one of the biggest issues with roaming, that for running solo you basically need to run such builds to avoid 'roaming guilds'.

>

> for instance if we had a roaming mastery that whenever we are only 1 or because we are generous 2 people in a 1500 range radius, then we get a special action key that grants stealth for 30s and 30s cd , only usable out of combat. then we would see alot more duel builds solo roaming and not just mainly ones with extreme mobility or stealth access. because you could avoid larger groups as long as you are solo/duo. and while stealthed you cant flip anything, cant kill a dolyak etc so it wouldnt really be a PPT issue. maybe disable the key while marked so you cant use it in the 5 minute window after a keep is flipped as a mesmer.

>

 

This leads to major issues with contesting things, though.

 

A major part of small-scale is defending your third from other invaders who tap keeps and start building siege. Allowing people to just bypass defenders defeats the entire purpose of defensive crews that may not have a zerg on the map. This pushes value away from small groups of players and makes the game innately based more around ktraining and blob play than currently.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Roaming isn't under-valued. It's just not given much priority because the small-scale player base in WvW is so small that it's basically insignificant in terms of PPT and overall disruption these days, and because the very nature of roaming isn't actually playing to score points: If you're only chasing kills, you're doing just a miniature version of what the blobs in ebg do all night by repeatedly attacking SMC.

 

What makes small-scale valuable to a server is havoc play in tandem with a blob to subtly take objectives or divert attention; getting a group of three to slow down 15 people and burn their cooldowns before going into a blob fight presses an advantage.

 

And it's ultimately entirely on the shoulders of profession balance, dbl's, and guild halls that are responsible for the low small-scale player base. The FoTM/dominant small-scale specs aren't fun, diverse, or even unique. Most are spammy and passive and tanky as any other frontline. Most abuse un-fun mechanics like stealth and immunity effects. Good players don't want to play rock paper scissors. Good players don't want to strictly always want a numbers advantage to win, either.

 

Professions need a lot of fixes and changes. Powercreep needs to be toned down harshly to core-game levels. HoT caused a massive mumber of small-scale players to leave the game due to the aforementioned because they just make small-scale play not fun to be part of.

 

Until the gameplay on its most fundamental levels improves, it doesn't matter what new things get implemented; if there are big PPT gains from this to actually swing a matchup, the PPT guilds and zergs will just adapt to maximize points.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"Whiteout.1975" said:

> > > > And frankly, whenever I hear the term "roaming guild", I know it's just 5 guys with the same tag chasing down solo roamers.

> > > Oh Yea, Well that's just WvW for you lol. It doesn't always allow for straight up 1v1's to happen. Though for us if you wanna 1v1 and made an attempt to voice that in whispers or do certain emotes in a reasonable manner. We would often let you. On the other hand, if your using some cheesy 1v1 specific build and expect us to take you seriously. Yea, we will probably just run you over and not feel bad about it tbh... If your even worth chasing anyways lol.

> >

> > any build that has a chance of escaping the 5, can be considered cheesy for a 1 vs 1. so you expect people to run solo in a freekill build and then take the time to whisper you / use and emote - they really got time for that when 5 people jump them :D. regardless of the build the solo person has, the 5 people will allways be more cheesy in 5 vs 1, just for running higher numbers than needed. its easy to blame others running no skill / cheese build if you got 4 friends protecting you.

> > IMO this is actually one of the biggest issues with roaming, that for running solo you basically need to run such builds to avoid 'roaming guilds'.

> >

> > for instance if we had a roaming mastery that whenever we are only 1 or because we are generous 2 people in a 1500 range radius, then we get a special action key that grants stealth for 30s and 30s cd , only usable out of combat. then we would see alot more duel builds solo roaming and not just mainly ones with extreme mobility or stealth access. because you could avoid larger groups as long as you are solo/duo. and while stealthed you cant flip anything, cant kill a dolyak etc so it wouldnt really be a PPT issue. maybe disable the key while marked so you cant use it in the 5 minute window after a keep is flipped as a mesmer.

> >

>

> This leads to major issues with contesting things, though.

>

> A major part of small-scale is defending your third from other invaders who tap keeps and start building siege. Allowing people to just bypass defenders defeats the entire purpose of defensive crews that may not have a zerg on the map. This pushes value away from small groups of players and makes the game innately based more around ktraining and blob play than currently.

>

that change would allow players of any class to get to objectives without being harrassed by larger groups, i can already do that on my thief and for efficiency reasons i do mostly play my thief when solo - but i would love to play other classes if i could avoid with them unwinnable fights away from any structure. its oke if i get ganked 5 vs 1 while i try taking a camp, but i dont like being chased by those 5 across the map without any nearby structure.

as it is already possible with one class, it is not leading to a new issue. when i play my thief, most of my opponents are highly annoyed by my presence and playstyle, which is kinda understandable, but with that change i wouldnt need to build around avoiding fights i dont want to engage in, wich gives me the option to fight alot more visibly wich will make me less of an annoyance. the problem is if i trait to be able to use enough stealth to avoid those fights, i am forced to use stealth alot infight because well thats what i am traited for and i would be super weak playing without it while i am traited for it.

> I've said it before and I'll say it again: Roaming isn't under-valued. It's just not given much priority because the small-scale player base in WvW is so small that it's basically insignificant in terms of PPT and overall disruption these days, and because the very nature of roaming isn't actually playing to score points: If you're only chasing kills, you're doing just a miniature version of what the blobs in ebg do all night by repeatedly attacking SMC.

>

i do roam with mainly PPT intentions i think , i fight most of my fights in and around structures - open field only if i happen to you know come by. PPT wise roaming/small scale is much more efficient then blobing. but nobody cares for winning the match as it is mostly determined by coverage and because it is not rewarded. if that was changed people would maybe start to play more efficient towards winning the match and not just the next fight ahead.

> And it's ultimately entirely on the shoulders of profession balance, dbl's, and guild halls that are responsible for the low small-scale player base. The FoTM/dominant small-scale specs aren't fun, diverse, or even unique. Most are spammy and passive and tanky as any other frontline. Most abuse un-fun mechanics like stealth and immunity effects. Good players don't want to play rock paper scissors. Good players don't want to strictly always want a numbers advantage to win, either.

> Professions need a lot of fixes and changes. Powercreep needs to be toned down harshly to core-game levels. HoT caused a massive mumber of small-scale players to leave the game due to the aforementioned because they just make small-scale play not fun to be part of.

> Until the gameplay on its most fundamental levels improves, it doesn't matter what new things get implemented; if there are big PPT gains from this to actually swing a matchup, the PPT guilds and zergs will just adapt to maximize points.

complete class overhaul wich you pretty much demand here is alot to change and claiming that every improvent is pointless until it is perfect is just stupid. i am glad for every little improvement we can get and what i proposed is not really a big change. and before you come next with but if you stack stealth with it OOC and then attack, just remove the skill bar during it and give a skill 1 to break out of it you need to press before attacking.

 

 

 

[Whiteout.1975]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Whiteout.1975" said:

> > > And frankly, whenever I hear the term "roaming guild", I know it's just 5 guys with the same tag chasing down solo roamers.

> > Oh Yea, Well that's just WvW for you lol. It doesn't always allow for straight up 1v1's to happen. Though for us if you wanna 1v1 and made an attempt to voice that in whispers or do certain emotes in a reasonable manner. We would often let you. On the other hand, if your using some cheesy 1v1 specific build and expect us to take you seriously. Yea, we will probably just run you over and not feel bad about it tbh... If your even worth chasing anyways lol.

>

> any build that has a chance of escaping the 5, can be considered cheesy for a 1 vs 1. so you expect people to run solo in a freekill build and then take the time to whisper you / use and emote - they really got time for that when 5 people jump them :D. regardless of the build the solo person has, the 5 people will allways be more cheesy in 5 vs 1, just for running higher numbers than needed. its easy to blame others running no skill / cheese build if you got 4 friends protecting you.

> IMO this is actually one of the biggest issues with roaming, that for running solo you basically need to run such builds to avoid 'roaming guilds'.

 

I'm sorry if something I said there may have been a little bit confusing. Anyways, builds like that can be considered cheesy, sure. Not all solo builds are "free kill builds" just FYI :) I was referring to if they are off in the distance or far enough anyways and want to 1v1 they could do the things mentioned. But if it's too late... whelp, sorry.

Roaming guilds get harassed by Zerg guilds too. Though, I just understand that's WvW and that can happen. So that's why I build myself as well, to help deal with the risky environment of WvW. I always say, "if you don't cheese it, someone else will". So you kinda have too, I get it.

 

> for instance if we had a roaming mastery that whenever we are only 1 or because we are generous 2 people in a 1500 range radius, then we get a special action key that grants stealth for 30s and 30s cd , only usable out of combat. then we would see alot more duel builds solo roaming and not just mainly ones with extreme mobility or stealth access. because you could avoid larger groups as long as you are solo/duo. and while stealthed you cant flip anything, cant kill a dolyak etc so it wouldnt really be a PPT issue. maybe disable the key while marked so you cant use it in the 5 minute window after a keep is flipped as a mesmer.

 

Interesting Idea :) but will probably be too forgiving to some classes still. As there are some that have a much easier time escaping compared to others.

 

 

[Whiteout.1975]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> I've said it before and I'll say it again: Roaming isn't under-valued. It's just not given much priority because the small-scale player base in WvW is so small that it's basically insignificant in terms of PPT and overall disruption these days, and because the very nature of roaming isn't actually playing to score points: If you're only chasing kills, you're doing just a miniature version of what the blobs in ebg do all night by repeatedly attacking SMC.

 

> What makes small-scale valuable to a server is havoc play in tandem with a blob to subtly take objectives or divert attention; getting a group of three to slow down 15 people and burn their cooldowns before going into a blob fight presses an advantage.

 

Well that's just it though... It's **more valued by the server** as a whole vs the actual roamer's themselves. I don't care about PPT. I just know someone is saying... "Oh, but he's a BG player so he must care about PPT :angry: ". Surprise :o... I don't. It's just numbers at the end of the day. I don't personally get anything that matters to me from it... So mostly everyone I know does not care about it. That likes to roam. I/We just want our kills and have fun doing it. However, I would like more value in terms as rewards and perhaps PPK if possible.

If the server see's great value in Roaming as well. Yet the bigger the groups are the one's that are getting more rewards and PPT for it. It easily starts to feel like a one-way street. Which is something I would obviously like changed. Also, would be something else that may keep us fighting longer or give us more reason to fight.

 

> Good players don't want to strictly always want a numbers advantage to win, either.

Yea, I and speaking for others here. We like the challenge in general as well, but there become's a point where it can get annoying none the less.

 

> Until the gameplay on its most fundamental levels improves, it doesn't matter what new things get implemented; if there are big PPT gains from this to actually swing a matchup, the PPT guilds and zergs will just adapt to maximize points.

 

I'm just not surprised by balance anymore. My problem, like I was saying before is that they often **buff** along with nerfing. So you get a double edged sword thing going on where it's like "oh dang I lost this"... "but hey this looks a lot nicer now"... "let's try that out"... and that new thing, that looks nice, can more or less sometimes be the thing that turns out to be OP. Then after that change is made it often linger's around for the longest time.

So I'm just not counting on balance. However, If things do get balanced enough, like I said... Having system that rewards you more fairly among the groups you are apart of. Just helps make the game better at the end of the day. As in it being more enjoyable for the people playing it.

So it's still is good to explore Idea's that can Improve this. So that you may at least, draw conclusions from those Idea's :)

 

[CrashTheGrey.1492]

> @"Whiteout.1975" said:

> > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > @"CrashTheGrey.1492" said:

> > > Hello I'm Crash and people say I'm the best Solo Warrior Roamer of _a specific time where there was probably like 3 other warriors on the map last tuesday or something_.

> > >

> > > That's just what they say though. Not me.

> >

> > Huh, I figured you'd take something else away from this besides a 5 word small section of a post geared to prompt discussion.

> >

> > Especially if you took the time to comment.

> >

> > But of course, that would be constructive, and, well, you did say you are a warrior main.

>

> Thanks Strider, Sadly only some understand the purpose behind that like yourself. I was not expecting it to cause so many **Man-child Tantrums**... but honestly if someone is going after that vs everything else that was written... It's just kinda pathetic really and I just LOL.

 

Your idea's, as many others have already pointed out, seem ineffectual.

 

If you want to open a conversation piece and lead with such a silly line (which is obviously seeking some sort of validation) then you should be able to take a joke. I'm not going to put stock into your idea whether or not you pretentiously dictate your roaming guilds "time period sensitive supremacy".

 

While I appreciate your attempts at trying to find a solution to something you believe is an issue, it's just way too easy to poke fun at, and you take yourself way too seriously.

 

 

[Whiteout.1975]

> @"CrashTheGrey.1492" said:

> > @"Whiteout.1975" said:

> > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > > @"CrashTheGrey.1492" said:

> > > > Hello I'm Crash and people say I'm the best Solo Warrior Roamer of _a specific time where there was probably like 3 other warriors on the map last tuesday or something_.

> > > >

> > > > That's just what they say though. Not me.

> > >

> > > Huh, I figured you'd take something else away from this besides a 5 word small section of a post geared to prompt discussion.

> > >

> > > Especially if you took the time to comment.

> > >

> > > But of course, that would be constructive, and, well, you did say you are a warrior main.

> >

> > Thanks Strider, Sadly only some understand the purpose behind that like yourself. I was not expecting it to cause so many **Man-child Tantrums**... but honestly if someone is going after that vs everything else that was written... It's just kinda pathetic really and I just LOL.

>

> Your idea's, as many others have already pointed out, seem ineffectual.

That's fine. In fact I encouraged other people to offer their Idea's as well here.

> If you want to open a conversation piece and lead with such a silly line (which is obviously seeking some sort of validation) then you should be able to take a joke. I'm not going to put stock into your idea whether or not you pretentiously dictate your roaming guilds "time period sensitive supremacy".

To be honest... I'm not seeking any validation there lol. That was just **based upon my experience** as a player. I did not structure the sentence in such a way that would signify... "I'm_____". "Please believe and except me". Lol, but some people took it that way I guess. Though for the record it was **many** player's/guilds who considered us very good at the very least, but not that it matters. This forum was never about a just 1 sentence leading to the actual discussion.

 

> While I appreciate your attempts at trying to find a solution to something you believe is an issue, it's just way too easy to poke fun at, and you take yourself way too seriously.

 

Well thanks :) I'll take back my "Man-child Tantrum" remark then. You have to understand that this particular issue is very serious to me. The reason, is because the guild more or less got split up from it. I and others miss having fun in this game. Along with one another. So I'm trying to help fix that. Also, for other friends of mine who are in guilds or leaders themselves. That are basically going through the same thing.

 

So if you have an Idea that may help... go for it. If people don't like it. Who Care's? if people are gonna bash you for trying to help. Who needs them? I know I don't :)

[Whiteout.1975]

Gonna list this part again...

> @"Whiteout.1975" said:

> I Hope everyone had a good Easter :) I'm gonna go through the Main points or Goals rather that I've been noticing so far.

>

> To start off, Point 1 & 2...

> 1.) Based on the response's so far. I think we can all agree that **roaming or small group play isn't as rewarding vs larger group play like zerging**. Really it just comes down to the fight's for roamer's and when the fun is had, (if there is fun lol) there is nothing really keeping us in WvW.

>

> 2.) The game ether need's to have a way of Recognizing small group play vs large group play **And/OR** Strongly Encouraging small group play. So that Roamer's and alike can be/feel rewarded and valued appropriately.

>

> ...And it just really comes down to those 2 point's. (Point 1 will be easier to achieve after point 2 is acheived)

> I'll continue commenting as I have the time.

 

So considering those points.... and focusing on point "2" here... It seems like WvW needs some sort of better **Traffic Flow** from my understanding here.

So whether it be more maps like @"Swagger.1459" was saying... OR more open area objective's like both @"Swagger.1459" and @"Kiroshima.8497" was mentioning...

Creating area's beneficial to roamers or smaller groups would help create a more even balance between the different styles of group play. Correct me if I'm wrong there. I don't wanna misunderstand you guys.

 

 

[Musty.3148]

> @"Whiteout.1975" said:

> Gonna list this part again...

> > @"Whiteout.1975" said:

> > I Hope everyone had a good Easter :) I'm gonna go through the Main points or Goals rather that I've been noticing so far.

> >

> > To start off, Point 1 & 2...

> > 1.) Based on the response's so far. I think we can all agree that **roaming or small group play isn't as rewarding vs larger group play like zerging**. Really it just comes down to the fight's for roamer's and when the fun is had, (if there is fun lol) there is nothing really keeping us in WvW.

> >

> > 2.) The game ether need's to have a way of Recognizing small group play vs large group play **And/OR** Strongly Encouraging small group play. So that Roamer's and alike can be/feel rewarded and valued appropriately.

> >

> > ...And it just really comes down to those 2 point's. (Point 1 will be easier to achieve after point 2 is acheived)

> > I'll continue commenting as I have the time.

>

> So considering those points.... and focusing on point "2" here... It seems like WvW needs some sort of better **Traffic Flow** from my understanding here.

> So whether it be more maps like @"Swagger.1459" was saying... OR more open area objective's like both @"Swagger.1459" and @"Kiroshima.8497" was mentioning...

> Creating area's beneficial to roamers or smaller groups would help create a more even balance between the different styles of group play. Correct me if I'm wrong there. I don't wanna misunderstand you guys.

>

>

 

I am partial to Desert Borderland for roaming. Kinda for the reasons you talk about. There are more objectives so that spreads the fight out a bit. And the terrain is much more convoluted to give you areas to LOS and gives a better ability to lose large groups that want to chase you all over hell and back. The alpine borders are too open, flat, and lack the "speed objectives" that are in desert. Just changing the areas would be a great boon to roaming imho.