Champions in Queensdale

[Menadena.7482]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > Looks like also because players weren’t actually *playing* the game.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Look at the thread again. That thread is 3 years old. I assume the question is about the bandit champs that were added more recently, not the old champ train.

>

> Absolutely not. Read again. This is about champs like Troll or Oakheart, the old endgame content for veterans called QD champ trains.

 

I never understood what the old train or the bandit champs were doing in queensdale in the first place. That is a starter zone for new characters.

[Zaraki.5784]

> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> People were doing continuous champ trains in starter maps (which isn’t necessarily what the Devs want the new people to think as a important thing to do at max level) and they were fighting in map chat about who did what to which champ, which is a bad first impression for new players.

 

Yeah... the general idea is "let's have new players think like they are in a perfect game....let's delay as much as possible the moment when they'll learn how selfish the playerbase can be under some circumstances".

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> Better answer is the decision was made to exclusively break champ trains and the "starter zone should be easy" argument was just an excuse. If they wanted to be consisted they would have nerfed champs in all starter maps.

They did that, iirc the only champions or above left in the starter zones were world bosses, a couple of meta bosses (like the ghost in Ascalon City, or Xolotl), and... uh, Badazar's Champion for some reason (probably overlooked, honestly).

[Dashingsteel.3410]

Actually having champions in Queensdale wasn't a problem for the first year of the game. Then Anet added champion bags as a reward for killing champions and that is when the train started. I am not aware of any other starting zones having champ trains besides Queensdale.

 

I

[joneirikb.7506]

I don't remember if Elite's was added to the game yet at that point. So might not have been an option.

 

Glad the train is gone, was toxic as heck. Did love setting it off or killing them out of turn though, was fun for self challenge, and never cared if people tied to flame me :)

 

I still wish they saved 1 or 2. They originally left the champion corrupted oakheart as a champion, but it was so easy I couldn't figure out why. Wish they restored Trogdor though, having some events that require players to team up early teaches some basics this game needs. And that angry champion troll was fun to fight against (or just make him elite).

 

As long as there isn't enough to make a train, or make it farmable.

[tacticalevilnoodlefox.5694]

I remember my friends and I being new and killing one of the Champs out of order before we knew what the train was. We got dog piled with angry, hateful, and threatening comments for it. Not the greatest first impression for new players.

[Pifil.5193]

> @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > Looks like also because players weren’t actually *playing* the game.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Look at the thread again. That thread is 3 years old. I assume the question is about the bandit champs that were added more recently, not the old champ train.

> >

> > Absolutely not. Read again. This is about champs like Troll or Oakheart, the old endgame content for veterans called QD champ trains.

>

> I never understood what the old train or the bandit champs were doing in queensdale in the first place. That is a starter zone for new characters.

 

The champs were a great source of XP but really tough for poorly geared players, expecially the bandit, because it was so cramped.

 

The Queensdale train was fantastic for levelling up, but it could be so toxic, the anti-train trolls didn't make things any better to be honest.

 

Both the rapid levelling and the toxicity were good enough reasons to remove the champions IMO.

[DarcShriek.5829]

The Queens dale champ train was signaling to new players that the best thing to do in the game was to run around a starting area and kill five mobs. It's a poor message to send to new customers.

[Etterwyn.5263]

> @"Ithilwen.1529" said:

> I was one of those who'd solo a champ out of order, hoping to get the "train" to go elsewhere. There never should have been an "order."

>

> Some poor newbie would come along and trigger a champ and then be verbally attacked by the whole "train." It made Queensdale seriously unpleasant. Beside that, It's really not in the spirit of GW2 to run around in circles and try to pad one's account.

>

> It didn't used to be in the spirit.

 

Thanks for that last sentence.... Because it's definitely been _chic_ for the 2+ years since I started playing.

[Wisty.1867]

> @"Texas.4861" said:

 

> Never experienced that, but that is usual in games like this... 'Pay no attention to the whiner behind in map chat, remove that mirror'

 

 

Yeah, I could brush it off EZPZ (been here since the betas with the LA WVW mapchat flame; ain't no one scaring me off that easily)

 

But for a new player, that's the kind of thing that would really make me quit...

[IndigoSundown.5419]

ANet has consistently nerfed farmed content once players come into conflict with other players over who "owns" the particular mobs. That type of behavior by players engaging in Queensdale Champion farm trains was reported over a fairly lengthy period before ANet acted.

[sorudo.9054]

> @"Pifil.5193" said:

> > @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > Looks like also because players weren’t actually *playing* the game.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Look at the thread again. That thread is 3 years old. I assume the question is about the bandit champs that were added more recently, not the old champ train.

> > >

> > > Absolutely not. Read again. This is about champs like Troll or Oakheart, the old endgame content for veterans called QD champ trains.

> >

> > I never understood what the old train or the bandit champs were doing in queensdale in the first place. That is a starter zone for new characters.

>

> The champs were a great source of XP but really tough for poorly geared players, expecially the bandit, because it was so cramped.

>

> The Queensdale train was fantastic for levelling up, but it could be so toxic, the anti-train trolls didn't make things any better to be honest.

>

> Both the rapid levelling and the toxicity were good enough reasons to remove the champions IMO.

 

the trains are the problem, not the other way around.

there are no anti-train trolls, only train trolls who only cared about themselves and not ppl who just wanna kill a champ.

[Biff.5312]

 

> Because they're literally starting zones, that's not the place for challenging content (most newbies will still be in starting gear).

 

If there's no challenges in a game I've just started playing, I stop playing it. There's no fun if you just auto-win everything. This game (and all mmos) are already too easy.

[RoseofGilead.8907]

> @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > @"Pifil.5193" said:

> > > @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > > @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > > Looks like also because players weren’t actually *playing* the game.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Look at the thread again. That thread is 3 years old. I assume the question is about the bandit champs that were added more recently, not the old champ train.

> > > >

> > > > Absolutely not. Read again. This is about champs like Troll or Oakheart, the old endgame content for veterans called QD champ trains.

> > >

> > > I never understood what the old train or the bandit champs were doing in queensdale in the first place. That is a starter zone for new characters.

> >

> > The champs were a great source of XP but really tough for poorly geared players, expecially the bandit, because it was so cramped.

> >

> > The Queensdale train was fantastic for levelling up, but it could be so toxic, the anti-train trolls didn't make things any better to be honest.

> >

> > Both the rapid levelling and the toxicity were good enough reasons to remove the champions IMO.

>

> the trains are the problem, not the other way around.

> there are no anti-train trolls, only train trolls who only cared about themselves and not ppl who just wanna kill a champ.

 

There was trolling from both sides. In my experiences with the champ train, the zerg side had the most vocal toxicity by far, but there were still a few people who would go kill one of the champs solo/in a small group and then call it out in map chat to antagonize the zerg.

[Pifil.5193]

> @"RoseofGilead.8907" said:

> > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > @"Pifil.5193" said:

> > > > @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > > > @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > > > Looks like also because players weren’t actually *playing* the game.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Look at the thread again. That thread is 3 years old. I assume the question is about the bandit champs that were added more recently, not the old champ train.

> > > > >

> > > > > Absolutely not. Read again. This is about champs like Troll or Oakheart, the old endgame content for veterans called QD champ trains.

> > > >

> > > > I never understood what the old train or the bandit champs were doing in queensdale in the first place. That is a starter zone for new characters.

> > >

> > > The champs were a great source of XP but really tough for poorly geared players, expecially the bandit, because it was so cramped.

> > >

> > > The Queensdale train was fantastic for levelling up, but it could be so toxic, the anti-train trolls didn't make things any better to be honest.

> > >

> > > Both the rapid levelling and the toxicity were good enough reasons to remove the champions IMO.

> >

> > the trains are the problem, not the other way around.

> > there are no anti-train trolls, only train trolls who only cared about themselves and not ppl who just wanna kill a champ.

>

> There was trolling from both sides. In my experiences with the champ train, the zerg side had the most vocal toxicity by far, but there were still a few people who would go kill one of the champs solo/in a small group and then call it out in map chat to antagonize the zerg.

 

Exactly, there were some in the trains who thought they had some kind of right to the champions and raged at anyone else who killed them and those people were wrong and toxic. However, people who killed the champions with the express purpose of enraging people in the train are also wrong and toxic.

 

Doing anything just to harm or anger others is not good behaviour.

[Menadena.7482]

> @"Biff.5312" said:

>

> > Because they're literally starting zones, that's not the place for challenging content (most newbies will still be in starting gear).

>

> If there's no challenges in a game I've just started playing, I stop playing it. There's no fun if you just auto-win everything. This game (and all mmos) are already too easy.

 

Starter zones in any game are supposed to be like training wheels while you learn the mechanics. If it is not challenging for you then go to another zone. I am sure you will find plenty of challenges trying to, oh, walk to Orr in level 5 equipment.

[sorudo.9054]

> @"RoseofGilead.8907" said:

> > @"sorudo.9054" said:

> > > @"Pifil.5193" said:

> > > > @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > > > > @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > > > > > Looks like also because players weren’t actually *playing* the game.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Look at the thread again. That thread is 3 years old. I assume the question is about the bandit champs that were added more recently, not the old champ train.

> > > > >

> > > > > Absolutely not. Read again. This is about champs like Troll or Oakheart, the old endgame content for veterans called QD champ trains.

> > > >

> > > > I never understood what the old train or the bandit champs were doing in queensdale in the first place. That is a starter zone for new characters.

> > >

> > > The champs were a great source of XP but really tough for poorly geared players, expecially the bandit, because it was so cramped.

> > >

> > > The Queensdale train was fantastic for levelling up, but it could be so toxic, the anti-train trolls didn't make things any better to be honest.

> > >

> > > Both the rapid levelling and the toxicity were good enough reasons to remove the champions IMO.

> >

> > the trains are the problem, not the other way around.

> > there are no anti-train trolls, only train trolls who only cared about themselves and not ppl who just wanna kill a champ.

>

> There was trolling from both sides. In my experiences with the champ train, the zerg side had the most vocal toxicity by far, but there were still a few people who would go kill one of the champs solo/in a small group and then call it out in map chat to antagonize the zerg.

 

in my experience i killed a champ solo and got the whole zerg cursing and reporting me, all i did was killing a champ i could solo.

i personally never had the opposite tho, i just have an experience where trains are bad, period.

[Biff.5312]

 

> Starter zones in any game are supposed to be like training wheels while you learn the mechanics. If it is not challenging for you then go to another zone. I am sure you will find plenty of challenges trying to, oh, walk to Orr in level 5 equipment.

 

You don't learn if you can kill things with auto-hit. Until you run into something you have to use multiple skills/dodge on, you're not learning mechanics. I get that you just don't agree but personally I'd never bother with a game where I have to wait to level up before it even starts offering the slightest challenge.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Biff.5312" said:

>

> > Starter zones in any game are supposed to be like training wheels while you learn the mechanics. If it is not challenging for you then go to another zone. I am sure you will find plenty of challenges trying to, oh, walk to Orr in level 5 equipment.

>

> You don't learn if you can kill things with auto-hit. Until you run into something you have to use multiple skills/dodge on, you're not learning mechanics. I get that you just don't agree but personally I'd never bother with a game where I have to wait to level up before it even starts offering the slightest challenge.

 

But gw2 doesn't offer challenge most of the time even at max level. Why are you here then? Honest question.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"Biff.5312" said:

> >

> > > Starter zones in any game are supposed to be like training wheels while you learn the mechanics. If it is not challenging for you then go to another zone. I am sure you will find plenty of challenges trying to, oh, walk to Orr in level 5 equipment.

> >

> > You don't learn if you can kill things with auto-hit. Until you run into something you have to use multiple skills/dodge on, you're not learning mechanics. I get that you just don't agree but personally I'd never bother with a game where I have to wait to level up before it even starts offering the slightest challenge.

>

> But gw2 doesn't offer challenge most of the time even at max level. Why are you here then? Honest question.

 

I think a lot depends on how you play. What is easy for one player is impossible for the next, but due to the way events are designed most open world bosses may be overwhelmed by sheer numbers. Still, if you choose to do so, you can challenge yourself to complete the same bosses solo or with a smaller group. I won't say scaling is perfect, but it seems to provide a decent challenge for solo players who are into that sort of thing while offering easy mode to players who prefer to run with the zerg.

 

Here's an example recorded last night:

 

 

There's no extra reward for doing it this way, but I enjoyed doing it and it certainly kept me on my toes for the entire fight! I've also done this boss by tagging up myself and leading a squad and by joining other squads. I can't speak for anyone else, but that's why I'm here. This game has a great combat system that allows me to practice my skills and improve. The core game definitely didn't have that, but the expansions do! Loving it!

[Danikat.8537]

> @"Wisty.1867" said:

> Having run it at the time, it was EXTREMELY toxic, with people flaming anyone and everyone in map chat for not killing the right champ in the right order at the right time for maximum loot bag gain. It was not a good time, even going so far as to earn me PM's with harassment of the typical "KYS" kind when I was seen near a champ that was killed out of rotation.

>

> It just wasn't good.

 

And on top of that a lot of new players would ask for advice on things like how to level up and what there was to do at end-game in map chat and get told you level up by grinding champions on starter maps and then grind champions on starter maps and some other maps for drops, or grind dungeon runs for gold (which was still a thing then) and use it to buy legendaries/good drops you didn't get directly. Which made the game sound extremely boring and actually put people off playing.

 

I remember more than once talking to new players who had just got the game and were already thinking they'd made a huge mistake buying it because it was just like whatever super-grindy MMO they'd just quit. And it's hard to convince someone there really are alternatives when you're 1 person against an entire map.

 

I think all the people who used to do the champion trains are now doing things like Silverwastes, the Dragon's Stand meta-event and PoF bounties. It's basically the same idea for them, but with the benefit that they're in level 80 maps where they're not in conflict with new players and those maps were designed with an awareness of how players would treat the content so randoms doing their own thing on the same map is highly unlikely to mess up the 'train' and therefore there's less toxicity.