Vagrant.7206 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > @"Lordrosicky.5813" said: > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said: > > > > @"Lordrosicky.5813" said: > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > @"Lordrosicky.5813" said: > > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > > @"Lordrosicky.5813" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Faux Play.6104" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Lordrosicky.5813" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > I think a lot of people seem to have forgotten that Mesmer phantasms were just changed in how they work as well as some getting attack updates. This means there’s some L2P in what you avoid and how to cheese the new phantasms into doing no damage but also there’s some balancing that needs to be done, like disenchanter damage coming down a bit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I very rarely see anyone LoS phantasms, my favourite is how people seem to ignore the phantasmal mage pottering up behind them, stretching its arms in front of it, lifting them above its head ready for the almighty fire wave to follow. It’s very well telegraphed and you have 2 opportunities to deny the skill, first by interrupting, blinding or LoS the phantasm and secondly by killing the phantasm. How many other classes and skills in the game can you say that there’s 2 opportunities to counter it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes Elusive Mind is too strong, yes I’ve said many times even just after PoF that it was overpowered and said the stun break should be removed. Yes disenchanter damage is a tad too high but it’s also only on boonless targets which isn’t exactly common, imo it should do damage per boon removed not insane damage to boonless. Yes Swordsman is too strong, it’s the strongest offhand phantasm there is. However don’t mistake a video taking a strong build into PvP against potatoes as proof it’s too good. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Finally remember, when you point a finger at someone else, there’s 3 pointing back at you. Many here won’t even admit to the aspects on their own classes that are overpowered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh I think some of us know what parts are overpowered but people seem to just say the class as a whole is over powered. I think there's also some over powered traits that people haven't put into action yet with the right build such as "Imagined Burdon" combined with "Mirror Images" and "Shatter Storm"... That's actually really fun with "Continuum Split" cuz if you set it up right you can mind wrack someone 4 times in 3-4s. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To me that's OP, but to others it probably sounds stupid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is why mesmer will never be balanced so it is pointless discussing it. The whole class is OP. Every trait line and most traits. To nerf it they would need significant across the board nerfs. This will take them years to do. Next patch they will probably nerf 1/2 traits, but an equally OP build will just replace it. So it will do nothing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only way to nerf mesmer is to nerf f1-f4 across the board. I would suggest 25% nerf to f1 damage and 25% cooldown increases to the other skills. This would probably still leave mesmer as the best class in the game by far. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just make them all have a 3/4 second to 1 second cast time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would work too. It would add a little counterplay to the game > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would butcher the mechanics though.... How does 1 daze, distort or mindwrack for some extra AoE dps on rezzers mid stomp? > > > > > > > If you were rezzing in a bit of AoE or cleave, how would you distort yourself from that damage? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (at this point the OP should just rename this thread to "Mesmer balance discussions", I know this thread was meant to be about clone spam but at this stage it seems more of a healthy mesmer discussion than the typical whinge threads) > > > > > > > > > > > > It adds counterplay though. It would be a really good change. 1s cast on all F abilities for mesmer. It still leaves them strong but just means a mesmer had to invest a little more time using them. And people can avoid them easier adding to counter play > > > > > > > > > > How is that counter play? That's butchering the mechanics to a point where it's worthless, you/we need that instacast effect on the Daze/Distortions for purposes like stomping/rezzing. > > > > > > > > > > Mind wrack and cry of frustration could be another story, but the amount of times I personally rely on daze/distortions instacast feature to either save someone else or stomp someone is more than I could ever count.. Like stomping a Thief for instance, they seem to port at the last second so you can't blink mid stomp to where they did so casting Daze on them near the end of the channel with 2+ illusions spread out will disrupt them from going anywhere. (good thieves don't waste time and don't usually make the stomp difficult, but majority seem to port, then stealth and put themselves out of play for another 15-20s, so this is just a generalization) > > > > > > > > > > There's also the defense side of things too, when a Thief hits you with bas venom ready to burst you, how would you counter play that without distortion? > > > > > > > > > > (I'm aware of Em/Mirage but I'm generalizing for all 3 specs.) > > > > > > > > It is counter play because insta-cast skills that have massive impact on the game are terrible from a balance and gameplay perspective. No point arguing about it, it is a fact. > > > > > > What are you talking about? You say this as if it's some sort of universal truth. What is the point of an interrupt with a cast time? Some abilities are supposed to be instant. Do I really have to point this out? > > > > Stun spells/interrupt spells in particular should not be insta-cast. Necro staff mark 5 is balanced because of the large cast time. You have to anticipate what is to come and use it. Mesmer F abilites should have cast times to add counterplay. This is a simple concept. counter-play is important. > > They need to be instacast... What's the point of a 1s cast time to disrupt someone using something with a 1s cast time? > > Only way to successfully disrupt a skill would be to use your disrupt before they use their skills, which means it's useless unless you're psychic. Instacast is the counterplay but apparently we have very different opinions as to what is a "simple concept". If they need to be instacast, then they shouldn't have durations more than 1/4 of a second, like thief's [headshot](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Headshot "headshot"), or have only one shot and a long cooldown/self-stun like [overcharged shot](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Overcharged_Shot "overcharged shot") or [head butt](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Head_Butt "head butt"). Those are balanced interrupts (pulmonary impact's a different story). Interrupts with an instant cast need to have a downside of some sort (preferably several downsides), be it self-cc, short duration cc, long cooldown w/ a single cast, heavy energy cost, etc. Power lock's only downside is that mantra of distraction has a long cast time outside of combat, which doesn't mean much due to how well some mesmer builds can disengage. If I was personally going to balance power lock as an interrupt, I'd give it 3 charges with 1/4 of a second daze, and lower the casting time on mantra of distraction. > @"Odik.4587" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > To the people who are saying that mesmer isn't completely overpowered, I'd like to see how your opinion changes after you 1v1 one of the best Mirages in game. > > > > Another way to tell it's broken is the fact that many teams in the monthly ran 2-3 Mirages. > > What supposed to change if you would be beaten by clearly a better player ? Seems like its your case Because the difference between a top 10 mesmer and a top 10 [iNSERT-ANY-OTHER-CLASS HERE-EXCEPT-MAYBE-THIEF-BUT-LET'S-BE-HONEST-MOST-OF-THEM-HAVE-LEFT] is quite significant. The level of competence required to play a top 10 anything is high, but the difference in what a top 10 mesmer can do is flabbergasting when compared to other classes. Even thieves can't do some of the stuff they can. 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Ithilwen.1529 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > > @"Oneira.7691" said: > > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > > > > > > > In mesmers case shatters are instant cast, but not instant effect, as they have to run towards the target. Even in melee range you still see the animation. The only exceptions are f4-5. > > > > > > Mantra of Distraction is instant cast because it has to be due to the fact not all skills have long, obvious animations to interupt unlike in GW1. And those aren’t going to change because the entire skill system would have to be overhauled and that’s not going to happen. I can’t remember over classes instant skills but it doesn’t matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > No one is denying that Mesmer is strong. It is, however, the issue is that everyone seems to want the class as a whole to receive the Smiters Boon treatment because they don’t like the class. That’s wrong and completely uncalled for. I’ve listed numerous changes that would benefit everyone and still have the class competitive. > > > > > > > > > > Yep. Your last remark pretty much sums it up. > > > > > > > > > > You can explain things until you're blue in the face and it won't matter to this gang of posters. They don't consider the difference between insta-casting a shatter and the fact that the illusions have to run towards the target, giving time for the target to react. They just want the class gutted. > > > > > > > > are we ignoring the fact that they get super speed when shattered? I'm sorry i forgot this traitline wasn't around anymore..... oh wait, it's still around.............thanks. > > > > > > I forgot they could pick it while having mirage cloak and breaking stuns on dodge....oh wait, it’s a different line.............thanks. > > > > > > Ok that was a cheap shot, sorry. However there’s a lot of other people making posts which seem to complain at high block uptime with shield while complaining about stunbreak on dodge as if you can have both in an almighty quadruple trait line build. Super speed still takes time to get to the enemy, they get there 50% faster but you can still deny shatter fodder all the same. > > > > > > As I keep saying people need to properly and thoughtfully direct their complaints, shatters being instant cast but not instant effect unless you’re in range of them is and always has been fine. If you’re having trouble with mirage shatters try AoE chill/cripple effects so they’re even slower to shatter or just plain cleave/kill the clones, they will die in at most 2 hits to power builds and scourge cleaves them out just as quick on its condi build. > > > > > > Playing any kind of interrupt build without skills that are instant to 1/4s cast is pointless, you’d literally be deleting 5 traits. What you and everyone else should be complaining at is confounding suggestions turning those instant cast dazes into 1s stuns, it’s getting nerfed but frankly in this state of the game it needs redesigning, once again outside the remit of the skill split sadly. If mantra of distraction is still very obnoxious you can reduce the daze duration to 1/2s so it’s more of an interrupt skill than anything else and would require very careful timing to really use it with mental anguish, not that anyone would considering how much mental anguish is being nerfed. > > > > btw OP was talking about clone spam which comes from the chrono traitline which also has the super speed traitline but ah yea! > > Clone spam isn’t the problem though. Mesmer can only have 3 clones. Phantasms are unlimited and need to be limited to 3 as well. This is inaccurate.. We may have any 3 clones and / or phantasms in our control. Once they are shattered and headed for the target, ( out of our control, ) we can conjure new ones. So, yes, you may momentarily see as many as 6 illusions, perhaps even 9 very briefly. This is the result of multiple shatters on the way. All of those illusions are soap bubble thin and easily destroyed by aoe or auto attack and they all act exactly the same way. They do not auto attack, they run directly toward their target. **This is not "clone spam" it's the result of overlapping very slow attacks. Few realize just how slow a Mesmer's attack is, which is why we need to be able to get close.** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > > > @"Oneira.7691" said: > > > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > In mesmers case shatters are instant cast, but not instant effect, as they have to run towards the target. Even in melee range you still see the animation. The only exceptions are f4-5. > > > > > > > Mantra of Distraction is instant cast because it has to be due to the fact not all skills have long, obvious animations to interupt unlike in GW1. And those aren’t going to change because the entire skill system would have to be overhauled and that’s not going to happen. I can’t remember over classes instant skills but it doesn’t matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No one is denying that Mesmer is strong. It is, however, the issue is that everyone seems to want the class as a whole to receive the Smiters Boon treatment because they don’t like the class. That’s wrong and completely uncalled for. I’ve listed numerous changes that would benefit everyone and still have the class competitive. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yep. Your last remark pretty much sums it up. > > > > > > > > > > > > You can explain things until you're blue in the face and it won't matter to this gang of posters. They don't consider the difference between insta-casting a shatter and the fact that the illusions have to run towards the target, giving time for the target to react. They just want the class gutted. > > > > > > > > > > are we ignoring the fact that they get super speed when shattered? I'm sorry i forgot this traitline wasn't around anymore..... oh wait, it's still around.............thanks. > > > > > > > > I forgot they could pick it while having mirage cloak and breaking stuns on dodge....oh wait, it’s a different line.............thanks. > > > > > > > > Ok that was a cheap shot, sorry. However there’s a lot of other people making posts which seem to complain at high block uptime with shield while complaining about stunbreak on dodge as if you can have both in an almighty quadruple trait line build. Super speed still takes time to get to the enemy, they get there 50% faster but you can still deny shatter fodder all the same. > > > > > > > > As I keep saying people need to properly and thoughtfully direct their complaints, shatters being instant cast but not instant effect unless you’re in range of them is and always has been fine. If you’re having trouble with mirage shatters try AoE chill/cripple effects so they’re even slower to shatter or just plain cleave/kill the clones, they will die in at most 2 hits to power builds and scourge cleaves them out just as quick on its condi build. > > > > > > > > Playing any kind of interrupt build without skills that are instant to 1/4s cast is pointless, you’d literally be deleting 5 traits. What you and everyone else should be complaining at is confounding suggestions turning those instant cast dazes into 1s stuns, it’s getting nerfed but frankly in this state of the game it needs redesigning, once again outside the remit of the skill split sadly. If mantra of distraction is still very obnoxious you can reduce the daze duration to 1/2s so it’s more of an interrupt skill than anything else and would require very careful timing to really use it with mental anguish, not that anyone would considering how much mental anguish is being nerfed. > > > > > > btw OP was talking about clone spam which comes from the chrono traitline which also has the super speed traitline but ah yea! > > > > Clone spam isn’t the problem though. Mesmer can only have 3 clones. Phantasms are unlimited and need to be limited to 3 as well. > > This is inaccurate.. We may have any 3 clones and / or phantasms in our control. Once they are shattered and headed for the target, ( out of our control, ) we can conjure new ones. > > So, yes, you may momentarily see as many as 6 illusions, perhaps even 9 very briefly. This is the result of multiple shatters on the way. All of those illusions are soap bubble thin and easily destroyed by aoe or auto attack and they all act exactly the same way. They do not auto attack, they run directly toward their target. > > **This is not "clone spam" it's result of overlapping very slow attacks. Few realize just how slow a Mesmer's attack is, which is why we need to be able to get close.** No... we can have three clones. Phantasms currently do not count towards the clone count. So using chronophantasma, f5 and SoE means you can have an extremely cluttered screen due to phantasms. The rest is fairly accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Except for your beloved leaderboards mean nothing nowdays and its a source of titles for a money. I know who boosted many accounts to top10-25. And he didnt play mesmer. xD Not sure what you trying to point out. I do agree that mesmer need nerfs, i disagree with smiters boon against it (while i agree to smiters boon druids ;) ) Get it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeletonman.5348 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 the fact mirage can just leave any fight at any time is just ridiculous... try to catch a decent mesmer on a map like kyhlo jaunt up the windmill, port to the over side off the map, blink back to the mill, sword ambush here sword ambush there jaunt here again jaunt there and the portal will be ready again soon. on top of that invuln, blocks, reflects, daze and blind for days, stealth the answer? just CC the mirage? oh wait theres a trait that makes u stunnbreak on dodge because being able to be CC puts u into a too big disadvantage due to the lack of mobiliy right? ok fair enough, if ur literally uncatchable and unkillable i bet they will lack damage as kind of trait of for their insane mobiliy and sustain, right? oh nvm an ilusionary defender hitting for 16k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FyzE.3472 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 And another one :-) Legend say that if you post the same threads over and over again, you will exaust the mesmer army and they will stop defendint their profession and Arenanet will nerf it to the ground because of that. Divide an conquer 101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allias.1420 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 ^ I call that a big fat success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirlias.8104 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 They should fix it like they seems to have done with hacks ( only 1 per time, or else you'll get suspended for 3 months from spvp ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wichidi.9281 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 > @"skeletonman.5348" said: > the fact mirage can just leave any fight at any time is just ridiculous... > > try to catch a decent mesmer on a map like kyhlo > > jaunt up the windmill, port to the over side off the map, blink back to the mill, sword ambush here sword ambush there jaunt here again jaunt there and the portal will be ready again soon. > > on top of that invuln, blocks, reflects, daze and blind for days, stealth > > the answer? just CC the mirage? oh wait theres a trait that makes u stunnbreak on dodge because being able to be CC puts u into a too big disadvantage due to the lack of mobiliy right? > > ok fair enough, if ur literally uncatchable and unkillable i bet they will lack damage as kind of trait of for their insane mobiliy and sustain, right? > > oh nvm an ilusionary defender hitting for 16k. > > U just dont get it, right? mesmer is anets golden child^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Disgrace.4275 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Fun thing is though,nerf after nerf after nerf and the mesmer class is considered OP lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoopop.5630 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > > @"Oneira.7691" said: > > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > > > > > > > In mesmers case shatters are instant cast, but not instant effect, as they have to run towards the target. Even in melee range you still see the animation. The only exceptions are f4-5. > > > > > > Mantra of Distraction is instant cast because it has to be due to the fact not all skills have long, obvious animations to interupt unlike in GW1. And those aren’t going to change because the entire skill system would have to be overhauled and that’s not going to happen. I can’t remember over classes instant skills but it doesn’t matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > No one is denying that Mesmer is strong. It is, however, the issue is that everyone seems to want the class as a whole to receive the Smiters Boon treatment because they don’t like the class. That’s wrong and completely uncalled for. I’ve listed numerous changes that would benefit everyone and still have the class competitive. > > > > > > > > > > Yep. Your last remark pretty much sums it up. > > > > > > > > > > You can explain things until you're blue in the face and it won't matter to this gang of posters. They don't consider the difference between insta-casting a shatter and the fact that the illusions have to run towards the target, giving time for the target to react. They just want the class gutted. > > > > > > > > are we ignoring the fact that they get super speed when shattered? I'm sorry i forgot this traitline wasn't around anymore..... oh wait, it's still around.............thanks. > > > > > > I forgot they could pick it while having mirage cloak and breaking stuns on dodge....oh wait, it’s a different line.............thanks. > > > > > > Ok that was a cheap shot, sorry. However there’s a lot of other people making posts which seem to complain at high block uptime with shield while complaining about stunbreak on dodge as if you can have both in an almighty quadruple trait line build. Super speed still takes time to get to the enemy, they get there 50% faster but you can still deny shatter fodder all the same. > > > > > > As I keep saying people need to properly and thoughtfully direct their complaints, shatters being instant cast but not instant effect unless you’re in range of them is and always has been fine. If you’re having trouble with mirage shatters try AoE chill/cripple effects so they’re even slower to shatter or just plain cleave/kill the clones, they will die in at most 2 hits to power builds and scourge cleaves them out just as quick on its condi build. > > > > > > Playing any kind of interrupt build without skills that are instant to 1/4s cast is pointless, you’d literally be deleting 5 traits. What you and everyone else should be complaining at is confounding suggestions turning those instant cast dazes into 1s stuns, it’s getting nerfed but frankly in this state of the game it needs redesigning, once again outside the remit of the skill split sadly. If mantra of distraction is still very obnoxious you can reduce the daze duration to 1/2s so it’s more of an interrupt skill than anything else and would require very careful timing to really use it with mental anguish, not that anyone would considering how much mental anguish is being nerfed. > > > > btw OP was talking about clone spam which comes from the chrono traitline which also has the super speed traitline but ah yea! > > Clone spam isn’t the problem though. Mesmer can only have 3 clones. Phantasms are unlimited and need to be limited to 3 as well. clone, phantasms, or illusions it's all the same visual cluster fuck that annoys me, might do different things but the fact that they spawn the same way and appear the same doesn't really change the fact it's bad especially if your "clearing" them off and they just repop again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > > > @"Oneira.7691" said: > > > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > In mesmers case shatters are instant cast, but not instant effect, as they have to run towards the target. Even in melee range you still see the animation. The only exceptions are f4-5. > > > > > > > Mantra of Distraction is instant cast because it has to be due to the fact not all skills have long, obvious animations to interupt unlike in GW1. And those aren’t going to change because the entire skill system would have to be overhauled and that’s not going to happen. I can’t remember over classes instant skills but it doesn’t matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No one is denying that Mesmer is strong. It is, however, the issue is that everyone seems to want the class as a whole to receive the Smiters Boon treatment because they don’t like the class. That’s wrong and completely uncalled for. I’ve listed numerous changes that would benefit everyone and still have the class competitive. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yep. Your last remark pretty much sums it up. > > > > > > > > > > > > You can explain things until you're blue in the face and it won't matter to this gang of posters. They don't consider the difference between insta-casting a shatter and the fact that the illusions have to run towards the target, giving time for the target to react. They just want the class gutted. > > > > > > > > > > are we ignoring the fact that they get super speed when shattered? I'm sorry i forgot this traitline wasn't around anymore..... oh wait, it's still around.............thanks. > > > > > > > > I forgot they could pick it while having mirage cloak and breaking stuns on dodge....oh wait, it’s a different line.............thanks. > > > > > > > > Ok that was a cheap shot, sorry. However there’s a lot of other people making posts which seem to complain at high block uptime with shield while complaining about stunbreak on dodge as if you can have both in an almighty quadruple trait line build. Super speed still takes time to get to the enemy, they get there 50% faster but you can still deny shatter fodder all the same. > > > > > > > > As I keep saying people need to properly and thoughtfully direct their complaints, shatters being instant cast but not instant effect unless you’re in range of them is and always has been fine. If you’re having trouble with mirage shatters try AoE chill/cripple effects so they’re even slower to shatter or just plain cleave/kill the clones, they will die in at most 2 hits to power builds and scourge cleaves them out just as quick on its condi build. > > > > > > > > Playing any kind of interrupt build without skills that are instant to 1/4s cast is pointless, you’d literally be deleting 5 traits. What you and everyone else should be complaining at is confounding suggestions turning those instant cast dazes into 1s stuns, it’s getting nerfed but frankly in this state of the game it needs redesigning, once again outside the remit of the skill split sadly. If mantra of distraction is still very obnoxious you can reduce the daze duration to 1/2s so it’s more of an interrupt skill than anything else and would require very careful timing to really use it with mental anguish, not that anyone would considering how much mental anguish is being nerfed. > > > > > > btw OP was talking about clone spam which comes from the chrono traitline which also has the super speed traitline but ah yea! > > > > Clone spam isn’t the problem though. Mesmer can only have 3 clones. Phantasms are unlimited and need to be limited to 3 as well. > > clone, phantasms, or illusions it's all the same visual cluster kitten that annoys me, might do different things but the fact that they spawn the same way and appear the same doesn't really change the fact it's bad especially if your "clearing" them off and they just repop again. Ones purple and the other is modeled after the user.... how is that appearing the same? One does damage the other... well the other is just there. The only thing that’s changed is phantasms don’t count towards the illusion limit(they need their own 3 phantasm limit). Visual clutter is an entirely different issue as ALL classes need the special effects toned down. I imagine you’ve had issues with determining clone/phantasm/player for a while yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoopop.5630 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > > > > @"Oneira.7691" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In mesmers case shatters are instant cast, but not instant effect, as they have to run towards the target. Even in melee range you still see the animation. The only exceptions are f4-5. > > > > > > > > Mantra of Distraction is instant cast because it has to be due to the fact not all skills have long, obvious animations to interupt unlike in GW1. And those aren’t going to change because the entire skill system would have to be overhauled and that’s not going to happen. I can’t remember over classes instant skills but it doesn’t matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No one is denying that Mesmer is strong. It is, however, the issue is that everyone seems to want the class as a whole to receive the Smiters Boon treatment because they don’t like the class. That’s wrong and completely uncalled for. I’ve listed numerous changes that would benefit everyone and still have the class competitive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yep. Your last remark pretty much sums it up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can explain things until you're blue in the face and it won't matter to this gang of posters. They don't consider the difference between insta-casting a shatter and the fact that the illusions have to run towards the target, giving time for the target to react. They just want the class gutted. > > > > > > > > > > > > are we ignoring the fact that they get super speed when shattered? I'm sorry i forgot this traitline wasn't around anymore..... oh wait, it's still around.............thanks. > > > > > > > > > > I forgot they could pick it while having mirage cloak and breaking stuns on dodge....oh wait, it’s a different line.............thanks. > > > > > > > > > > Ok that was a cheap shot, sorry. However there’s a lot of other people making posts which seem to complain at high block uptime with shield while complaining about stunbreak on dodge as if you can have both in an almighty quadruple trait line build. Super speed still takes time to get to the enemy, they get there 50% faster but you can still deny shatter fodder all the same. > > > > > > > > > > As I keep saying people need to properly and thoughtfully direct their complaints, shatters being instant cast but not instant effect unless you’re in range of them is and always has been fine. If you’re having trouble with mirage shatters try AoE chill/cripple effects so they’re even slower to shatter or just plain cleave/kill the clones, they will die in at most 2 hits to power builds and scourge cleaves them out just as quick on its condi build. > > > > > > > > > > Playing any kind of interrupt build without skills that are instant to 1/4s cast is pointless, you’d literally be deleting 5 traits. What you and everyone else should be complaining at is confounding suggestions turning those instant cast dazes into 1s stuns, it’s getting nerfed but frankly in this state of the game it needs redesigning, once again outside the remit of the skill split sadly. If mantra of distraction is still very obnoxious you can reduce the daze duration to 1/2s so it’s more of an interrupt skill than anything else and would require very careful timing to really use it with mental anguish, not that anyone would considering how much mental anguish is being nerfed. > > > > > > > > btw OP was talking about clone spam which comes from the chrono traitline which also has the super speed traitline but ah yea! > > > > > > Clone spam isn’t the problem though. Mesmer can only have 3 clones. Phantasms are unlimited and need to be limited to 3 as well. > > > > clone, phantasms, or illusions it's all the same visual cluster kitten that annoys me, might do different things but the fact that they spawn the same way and appear the same doesn't really change the fact it's bad especially if your "clearing" them off and they just repop again. > > Ones purple and the other is modeled after the user.... how is that appearing the same? One does damage the other... well the other is just there. > The only thing that’s changed is phantasms don’t count towards the illusion limit(they need their own 3 phantasm limit). Visual clutter is an entirely different issue as ALL classes need the special effects toned down. > > I imagine you’ve had issues with determining clone/phantasm/player for a while yes? no..... i played mesmer upon the first 2 years of guildwars and play them now every so often however i like my engi more. My one and only issue is their clone spam visual during a group fight, especially if theirs 2 mesmers in the same team it becomes a major visual fuck up period. IF they didn't have clones stacking up to more then 3 then that wont be an issue however when you got JUST one mesmer with 6 illusions or whatever you want to call it becomes an issue. I had my fair of fun fights in plat 2/3 last few seasons however after that mesmer change noting "fun" was brought to the table while fighting them, like i mention before i'll rather have confusion mesmer be the cancer then this new style of spam mesmer that has made the class stupidly easier to play which has a lot of the mesmer main just being down right nearly unstoppable in 1vs1 when stealing a node. anyway my point is this.... IF this class is going to be a lot easier to play with then theirs no reason why it needs the amount of durability it has or it can be the other way around.... with the amount of suitability it has it shouldn't deal so much damage at all with either condi or power. I'm Also not even pointing out the fact that MOST top tier teams AT the moment RUN 2 mesmer for the abuse of potential it has which is a completely different topic for later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wichidi.9281 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > Fun thing is though,nerf after nerf after nerf and the mesmer class is considered OP lol. only condi mirage has been nerfed. meanwhile they reworked the phantasm system and made it completly OP and power mirage has never gotten any nerfs lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allias.1420 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 meanwhile all the mesmer mains are going "pls dont nerf mes it is balanced just get gud and l2p u plebs" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > > > > > @"Oneira.7691" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In mesmers case shatters are instant cast, but not instant effect, as they have to run towards the target. Even in melee range you still see the animation. The only exceptions are f4-5. > > > > > > > > > Mantra of Distraction is instant cast because it has to be due to the fact not all skills have long, obvious animations to interupt unlike in GW1. And those aren’t going to change because the entire skill system would have to be overhauled and that’s not going to happen. I can’t remember over classes instant skills but it doesn’t matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No one is denying that Mesmer is strong. It is, however, the issue is that everyone seems to want the class as a whole to receive the Smiters Boon treatment because they don’t like the class. That’s wrong and completely uncalled for. I’ve listed numerous changes that would benefit everyone and still have the class competitive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yep. Your last remark pretty much sums it up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can explain things until you're blue in the face and it won't matter to this gang of posters. They don't consider the difference between insta-casting a shatter and the fact that the illusions have to run towards the target, giving time for the target to react. They just want the class gutted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are we ignoring the fact that they get super speed when shattered? I'm sorry i forgot this traitline wasn't around anymore..... oh wait, it's still around.............thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > I forgot they could pick it while having mirage cloak and breaking stuns on dodge....oh wait, it’s a different line.............thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok that was a cheap shot, sorry. However there’s a lot of other people making posts which seem to complain at high block uptime with shield while complaining about stunbreak on dodge as if you can have both in an almighty quadruple trait line build. Super speed still takes time to get to the enemy, they get there 50% faster but you can still deny shatter fodder all the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > As I keep saying people need to properly and thoughtfully direct their complaints, shatters being instant cast but not instant effect unless you’re in range of them is and always has been fine. If you’re having trouble with mirage shatters try AoE chill/cripple effects so they’re even slower to shatter or just plain cleave/kill the clones, they will die in at most 2 hits to power builds and scourge cleaves them out just as quick on its condi build. > > > > > > > > > > > > Playing any kind of interrupt build without skills that are instant to 1/4s cast is pointless, you’d literally be deleting 5 traits. What you and everyone else should be complaining at is confounding suggestions turning those instant cast dazes into 1s stuns, it’s getting nerfed but frankly in this state of the game it needs redesigning, once again outside the remit of the skill split sadly. If mantra of distraction is still very obnoxious you can reduce the daze duration to 1/2s so it’s more of an interrupt skill than anything else and would require very careful timing to really use it with mental anguish, not that anyone would considering how much mental anguish is being nerfed. > > > > > > > > > > btw OP was talking about clone spam which comes from the chrono traitline which also has the super speed traitline but ah yea! > > > > > > > > Clone spam isn’t the problem though. Mesmer can only have 3 clones. Phantasms are unlimited and need to be limited to 3 as well. > > > > > > clone, phantasms, or illusions it's all the same visual cluster kitten that annoys me, might do different things but the fact that they spawn the same way and appear the same doesn't really change the fact it's bad especially if your "clearing" them off and they just repop again. > > > > Ones purple and the other is modeled after the user.... how is that appearing the same? One does damage the other... well the other is just there. > > The only thing that’s changed is phantasms don’t count towards the illusion limit(they need their own 3 phantasm limit). Visual clutter is an entirely different issue as ALL classes need the special effects toned down. > > > > I imagine you’ve had issues with determining clone/phantasm/player for a while yes? > > no..... i played mesmer upon the first 2 years of guildwars and play them now every so often however i like my engi more. My one and only issue is their clone spam visual during a group fight, especially if theirs 2 mesmers in the same team it becomes a major visual kitten up period. IF they didn't have clones stacking up to more then 3 then that wont be an issue however when you got JUST one mesmer with 6 illusions or whatever you want to call it becomes an issue. I had my fair of fun fights in plat 2/3 last few seasons however after that mesmer change noting "fun" was brought to the table while fighting them, like i mention before i'll rather have confusion mesmer be the cancer then this new style of spam mesmer that has made the class stupidly easier to play which has a lot of the mesmer main just being down right nearly unstoppable in 1vs1 when stealing a node. > > anyway my point is this.... IF this class is going to be a lot easier to play with then theirs no reason why it needs the amount of durability it has or it can be the other way around.... with the amount of suitability it has it shouldn't deal so much damage at all with either condi or power. I'm Also not even pointing out the fact that MOST top tier teams AT the moment RUN 2 mesmer for the abuse of potential it has which is a completely different topic for later. If you’ve played the class for two years then using the right term shouldn’t be hard. No one spamming clones. Next the issue isn’t Mesmer dealing damage. Phantasms just recently underwent a major overhaul, only one maybe two people on this forum are saying they’re fine. Everyone else, mesmers included, agree that certain phantasms need a reduction in damage, that certain skills need nerfed. Implementing a 3 clone/3 phantasm limit reduces visual clutter and solves a lot of the current issue with the boon spam build. However, rather than coming up viable ideas everyone just wants Mesmer to receive the Smiters Boon treatment simply because they don’t like the class. If you want to have a discussion on what would be healthy nerfs I’m agreeable to doing so, however, very few people want that. They want their class to be OP and nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rank eleven monk.9502 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 > @"Wichidi.9281" said: > meanwhile they reworked the phantasm system and made it completly OP and power mirage has never gotten any nerfs lol So how did the phantasm rework made power mirage completely OP? There is one phantasm you are using as power mesmer, that is GS4. (Torch5 is very weak damage wise, it's a condi phantasm). Yes it's stronger now definitely, because the throw damage got boosted slightly. And that's it. Just another proof how clueless people are about power mesmer. Two things made power mirage very popular last season: 1. disappearance of condi meta (by far the most important) 2. buffs to Illusion line which created the very gimmicky and popular new meta build (higher tier players use and have used Dueling anyways) edit: the bunker chrono and bunker mirage are problems though and obviously the phantasm rework made those viable. but not power mirage (GS one) - it's being nerfed so why complain though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 > @"rank eleven monk.9502" said: > > @"Wichidi.9281" said: > > meanwhile they reworked the phantasm system and made it completly OP and power mirage has never gotten any nerfs lol > So how did the phantasm rework made power mesmer completely OP? There is one phantasm you are using as power mesmer, that is GS4. (Torch5 is very weak damage wise, it's a condi phantasm). Yes it's stronger now definitely, because the throw damage got boosted slightly. And that's it. > > Just another proof how clueless people are about power mesmer. > > Two things made power mirage very popular last season: > 1. disappearance of condi meta (by far the most important) > 2. buffs to Illusion line which created the very gimmicky and popular new meta build (higher tier players use and have used Dueling anyways) I think the biggest complaint is that phantasms don’t have a summoning limit and people cant tell the difference between a purple phantasm, some with obvious telegraphed attacks, clones, and the actual player. And they keep attacking Defender which soaks up the damage it receives and turns it back as an attack. And somehow they are getting hit by Disenchanter will not having boons in this boon heavy meta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wichidi.9281 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 > @"rank eleven monk.9502" said: > > @"Wichidi.9281" said: > > meanwhile they reworked the phantasm system and made it completly OP and power mirage has never gotten any nerfs lol > So how did the phantasm rework made power mesmer completely OP? There is one phantasm you are using as power mesmer, that is GS4. (Torch5 is very weak damage wise, it's a condi phantasm). Yes it's stronger now definitely, because the throw damage got boosted slightly. And that's it. > > Just another proof how clueless people are about power mesmer. > > Two things made power mirage very popular last season: > 1. disappearance of condi meta (by far the most important) > 2. buffs to Illusion line which created the very gimmicky and popular new meta build (higher tier players use and have used Dueling anyways) im not complaining about GS mesmer rather than disenchanter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoopop.5630 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Oneira.7691" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In mesmers case shatters are instant cast, but not instant effect, as they have to run towards the target. Even in melee range you still see the animation. The only exceptions are f4-5. > > > > > > > > > > Mantra of Distraction is instant cast because it has to be due to the fact not all skills have long, obvious animations to interupt unlike in GW1. And those aren’t going to change because the entire skill system would have to be overhauled and that’s not going to happen. I can’t remember over classes instant skills but it doesn’t matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No one is denying that Mesmer is strong. It is, however, the issue is that everyone seems to want the class as a whole to receive the Smiters Boon treatment because they don’t like the class. That’s wrong and completely uncalled for. I’ve listed numerous changes that would benefit everyone and still have the class competitive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yep. Your last remark pretty much sums it up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can explain things until you're blue in the face and it won't matter to this gang of posters. They don't consider the difference between insta-casting a shatter and the fact that the illusions have to run towards the target, giving time for the target to react. They just want the class gutted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are we ignoring the fact that they get super speed when shattered? I'm sorry i forgot this traitline wasn't around anymore..... oh wait, it's still around.............thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I forgot they could pick it while having mirage cloak and breaking stuns on dodge....oh wait, it’s a different line.............thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok that was a cheap shot, sorry. However there’s a lot of other people making posts which seem to complain at high block uptime with shield while complaining about stunbreak on dodge as if you can have both in an almighty quadruple trait line build. Super speed still takes time to get to the enemy, they get there 50% faster but you can still deny shatter fodder all the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I keep saying people need to properly and thoughtfully direct their complaints, shatters being instant cast but not instant effect unless you’re in range of them is and always has been fine. If you’re having trouble with mirage shatters try AoE chill/cripple effects so they’re even slower to shatter or just plain cleave/kill the clones, they will die in at most 2 hits to power builds and scourge cleaves them out just as quick on its condi build. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Playing any kind of interrupt build without skills that are instant to 1/4s cast is pointless, you’d literally be deleting 5 traits. What you and everyone else should be complaining at is confounding suggestions turning those instant cast dazes into 1s stuns, it’s getting nerfed but frankly in this state of the game it needs redesigning, once again outside the remit of the skill split sadly. If mantra of distraction is still very obnoxious you can reduce the daze duration to 1/2s so it’s more of an interrupt skill than anything else and would require very careful timing to really use it with mental anguish, not that anyone would considering how much mental anguish is being nerfed. > > > > > > > > > > > > btw OP was talking about clone spam which comes from the chrono traitline which also has the super speed traitline but ah yea! > > > > > > > > > > Clone spam isn’t the problem though. Mesmer can only have 3 clones. Phantasms are unlimited and need to be limited to 3 as well. > > > > > > > > clone, phantasms, or illusions it's all the same visual cluster kitten that annoys me, might do different things but the fact that they spawn the same way and appear the same doesn't really change the fact it's bad especially if your "clearing" them off and they just repop again. > > > > > > Ones purple and the other is modeled after the user.... how is that appearing the same? One does damage the other... well the other is just there. > > > The only thing that’s changed is phantasms don’t count towards the illusion limit(they need their own 3 phantasm limit). Visual clutter is an entirely different issue as ALL classes need the special effects toned down. > > > > > > I imagine you’ve had issues with determining clone/phantasm/player for a while yes? > > > > no..... i played mesmer upon the first 2 years of guildwars and play them now every so often however i like my engi more. My one and only issue is their clone spam visual during a group fight, especially if theirs 2 mesmers in the same team it becomes a major visual kitten up period. IF they didn't have clones stacking up to more then 3 then that wont be an issue however when you got JUST one mesmer with 6 illusions or whatever you want to call it becomes an issue. I had my fair of fun fights in plat 2/3 last few seasons however after that mesmer change noting "fun" was brought to the table while fighting them, like i mention before i'll rather have confusion mesmer be the cancer then this new style of spam mesmer that has made the class stupidly easier to play which has a lot of the mesmer main just being down right nearly unstoppable in 1vs1 when stealing a node. > > > > anyway my point is this.... IF this class is going to be a lot easier to play with then theirs no reason why it needs the amount of durability it has or it can be the other way around.... with the amount of suitability it has it shouldn't deal so much damage at all with either condi or power. I'm Also not even pointing out the fact that MOST top tier teams AT the moment RUN 2 mesmer for the abuse of potential it has which is a completely different topic for later. > > If you’ve played the class for two years then using the right term shouldn’t be hard. No one spamming clones. > > Next the issue isn’t Mesmer dealing damage. Phantasms just recently underwent a major overhaul, only one maybe two people on this forum are saying they’re fine. Everyone else, mesmers included, agree that certain phantasms need a reduction in damage, that certain skills need nerfed. Implementing a 3 clone/3 phantasm limit reduces visual clutter and solves a lot of the current issue with the boon spam build. However, rather than coming up viable ideas everyone just wants Mesmer to receive the Smiters Boon treatment simply because they don’t like the class. > > If you want to have a discussion on what would be healthy nerfs I’m agreeable to doing so, however, very few people want that. They want their class to be OP and nothing else. I could careless how op or weak the class gets the only issue i want fix is the cluster fuck visual that disguise me during a major battle at node, other then that it doesn't matter especially if the nerfs coming on Tuesday isn't going to fix anything for the class and we'll MOST likely not see anything happen till the middle of season 11. If you play a mele class that needs to be up close for combat you'll understand the frustration that a lot of us with this entire thing, as for those who want the class completely nerf is a bit silly however they do need a few tweaks with weather it's the phantasm or the trait-lines either 1 needs a small tweak down to get things lined up well. However with the nerfs they listed and shown us it's already an obv sign that mesmer are going to stay TOP tier with possibly no other class being it's equal in what it can do. Like i stated in my original post the visual is what fucks this game-mode up in a lot of ways, and the fact it gets abused when 2-3 people play the same class just for the LoL to make things toxic/stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rank eleven monk.9502 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 > @"Wichidi.9281" said: > > @"rank eleven monk.9502" said: > > > @"Wichidi.9281" said: > > > meanwhile they reworked the phantasm system and made it completly OP and power mirage has never gotten any nerfs lol > > So how did the phantasm rework made power mesmer completely OP? There is one phantasm you are using as power mesmer, that is GS4. (Torch5 is very weak damage wise, it's a condi phantasm). Yes it's stronger now definitely, because the throw damage got boosted slightly. And that's it. > > > > Just another proof how clueless people are about power mesmer. > > > > Two things made power mirage very popular last season: > > 1. disappearance of condi meta (by far the most important) > > 2. buffs to Illusion line which created the very gimmicky and popular new meta build (higher tier players use and have used Dueling anyways) > > im not complaining about GS mesmer rather than disenchanter Good then because it's gonna be nerfed big time in a few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Oneira.7691" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In mesmers case shatters are instant cast, but not instant effect, as they have to run towards the target. Even in melee range you still see the animation. The only exceptions are f4-5. > > > > > > > > > > > Mantra of Distraction is instant cast because it has to be due to the fact not all skills have long, obvious animations to interupt unlike in GW1. And those aren’t going to change because the entire skill system would have to be overhauled and that’s not going to happen. I can’t remember over classes instant skills but it doesn’t matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No one is denying that Mesmer is strong. It is, however, the issue is that everyone seems to want the class as a whole to receive the Smiters Boon treatment because they don’t like the class. That’s wrong and completely uncalled for. I’ve listed numerous changes that would benefit everyone and still have the class competitive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yep. Your last remark pretty much sums it up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can explain things until you're blue in the face and it won't matter to this gang of posters. They don't consider the difference between insta-casting a shatter and the fact that the illusions have to run towards the target, giving time for the target to react. They just want the class gutted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are we ignoring the fact that they get super speed when shattered? I'm sorry i forgot this traitline wasn't around anymore..... oh wait, it's still around.............thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I forgot they could pick it while having mirage cloak and breaking stuns on dodge....oh wait, it’s a different line.............thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok that was a cheap shot, sorry. However there’s a lot of other people making posts which seem to complain at high block uptime with shield while complaining about stunbreak on dodge as if you can have both in an almighty quadruple trait line build. Super speed still takes time to get to the enemy, they get there 50% faster but you can still deny shatter fodder all the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I keep saying people need to properly and thoughtfully direct their complaints, shatters being instant cast but not instant effect unless you’re in range of them is and always has been fine. If you’re having trouble with mirage shatters try AoE chill/cripple effects so they’re even slower to shatter or just plain cleave/kill the clones, they will die in at most 2 hits to power builds and scourge cleaves them out just as quick on its condi build. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Playing any kind of interrupt build without skills that are instant to 1/4s cast is pointless, you’d literally be deleting 5 traits. What you and everyone else should be complaining at is confounding suggestions turning those instant cast dazes into 1s stuns, it’s getting nerfed but frankly in this state of the game it needs redesigning, once again outside the remit of the skill split sadly. If mantra of distraction is still very obnoxious you can reduce the daze duration to 1/2s so it’s more of an interrupt skill than anything else and would require very careful timing to really use it with mental anguish, not that anyone would considering how much mental anguish is being nerfed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > btw OP was talking about clone spam which comes from the chrono traitline which also has the super speed traitline but ah yea! > > > > > > > > > > > > Clone spam isn’t the problem though. Mesmer can only have 3 clones. Phantasms are unlimited and need to be limited to 3 as well. > > > > > > > > > > clone, phantasms, or illusions it's all the same visual cluster kitten that annoys me, might do different things but the fact that they spawn the same way and appear the same doesn't really change the fact it's bad especially if your "clearing" them off and they just repop again. > > > > > > > > Ones purple and the other is modeled after the user.... how is that appearing the same? One does damage the other... well the other is just there. > > > > The only thing that’s changed is phantasms don’t count towards the illusion limit(they need their own 3 phantasm limit). Visual clutter is an entirely different issue as ALL classes need the special effects toned down. > > > > > > > > I imagine you’ve had issues with determining clone/phantasm/player for a while yes? > > > > > > no..... i played mesmer upon the first 2 years of guildwars and play them now every so often however i like my engi more. My one and only issue is their clone spam visual during a group fight, especially if theirs 2 mesmers in the same team it becomes a major visual kitten up period. IF they didn't have clones stacking up to more then 3 then that wont be an issue however when you got JUST one mesmer with 6 illusions or whatever you want to call it becomes an issue. I had my fair of fun fights in plat 2/3 last few seasons however after that mesmer change noting "fun" was brought to the table while fighting them, like i mention before i'll rather have confusion mesmer be the cancer then this new style of spam mesmer that has made the class stupidly easier to play which has a lot of the mesmer main just being down right nearly unstoppable in 1vs1 when stealing a node. > > > > > > anyway my point is this.... IF this class is going to be a lot easier to play with then theirs no reason why it needs the amount of durability it has or it can be the other way around.... with the amount of suitability it has it shouldn't deal so much damage at all with either condi or power. I'm Also not even pointing out the fact that MOST top tier teams AT the moment RUN 2 mesmer for the abuse of potential it has which is a completely different topic for later. > > > > If you’ve played the class for two years then using the right term shouldn’t be hard. No one spamming clones. > > > > Next the issue isn’t Mesmer dealing damage. Phantasms just recently underwent a major overhaul, only one maybe two people on this forum are saying they’re fine. Everyone else, mesmers included, agree that certain phantasms need a reduction in damage, that certain skills need nerfed. Implementing a 3 clone/3 phantasm limit reduces visual clutter and solves a lot of the current issue with the boon spam build. However, rather than coming up viable ideas everyone just wants Mesmer to receive the Smiters Boon treatment simply because they don’t like the class. > > > > If you want to have a discussion on what would be healthy nerfs I’m agreeable to doing so, however, very few people want that. They want their class to be OP and nothing else. > > I could careless how op or weak the class gets the only issue i want fix is the cluster kitten visual that disguise me during a major battle at node, other then that it doesn't matter especially if the nerfs coming on Tuesday isn't going to fix anything for the class and we'll MOST likely not see anything happen till the middle of season 11. If you play a mele class that needs to be up close for combat you'll understand the frustration that a lot of us with this entire thing, as for those who want the class completely nerf is a bit silly however they do need a few tweaks with weather it's the phantasm or the trait-lines either 1 needs a small tweak down to get things lined up well. However with the nerfs they listed and shown us it's already an obv sign that mesmer are going to stay TOP tier with possibly no other class being it's equal in what it can do. > > Like i stated in my original post the visual is what kitten this game-mode up in a lot of ways, and the fact it gets abused when 2-3 people play the same class just for the LoL to make things toxic/stupid. > > Then what you need to be advocating for is Anet to finally implement a class stacking protocol so no class has more than one per team. That solves a lot of issues but will come with longer queue times. 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ZDragon.3046 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Mesmer is a meme. I dont bother trying to fight them anymore to be honest. Its usually not worth the frustration. The fact that professions like warrior and mirage get more doges than daredevil does right now is pretty insane. And the fact that anet is not doing much on this next pvp balance split despite how ridiculously strong mesmer is shows that its the child that gets what ever it wants. The fact that its the only profession to get a darn near total base rework in all 5 years or so that this game has been out is insane to me. Where is the QoL fix for every other profession that addresses issues they have that were arguably much worse than mesmers to shatter or not to shatter issue. If the devs at least shared some insight that other professions were up for at least an equal amount of touch up investment that mesmer got would be nice. Truth be told all of the professions including mesmer should be receiving this kind of touch up at this point in the games day and age. In a year or two when the game mostly consist of mesmer because the next xpack fills in the few gap areas where mesmer is subpar (which is not too many places) maybe they will consider doing updates for other professions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > Mesmer is a meme. > I dont bother trying to fight them anymore to be honest. Its usually not worth the frustration. The fact that professions like warrior and mirage get more doges than daredevil does right now is pretty insane. And the fact that anet is not doing much on this next pvp balance split despite how ridiculously strong mesmer is shows that its the child that gets what ever it wants. > umm what? All classes only get two dodges outside daredevil. You literally can’t have more. > The fact that its the only profession to get a darn near total base rework in all 5 years or so that this game has been out is insane to me. > I agree other classes need mechanic fixes. > Where is the QoL fix for every other profession that addresses issues they have that were arguably much worse than mesmers to shatter or not to shatter issue. No, that was never supposed to be an option. We’re supoosed to shatter and now they fixed it. Phantasms were never meant to be kept up. > If the devs at least shared some insight that other professions were up for at least an equal amount of touch up investment that mesmer got would be nice. > devs communicate with community? Outrageous > Truth be told all of the professions including mesmer should be receiving this kind of touch up at this point in the games day and age. Agreed. > In a year or two when the game mostly consist of mesmer because the next xpack fills in the few gap areas where mesmer is subpar (which is not too many places) maybe they will consider doing updates for other professions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaShi.1368 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 > @"skeletonman.5348" said: > the fact mirage can just leave any fight at any time is just ridiculous... > > try to catch a decent mesmer on a map like kyhlo > > jaunt up the windmill, port to the over side off the map, blink back to the mill, sword ambush here sword ambush there jaunt here again jaunt there and the portal will be ready again soon. > > on top of that invuln, blocks, reflects, daze and blind for days, stealth > > the answer? just CC the mirage? oh wait theres a trait that makes u stunnbreak on dodge because being able to be CC puts u into a too big disadvantage due to the lack of mobiliy right? > > ok fair enough, if ur literally uncatchable and unkillable i bet they will lack damage as kind of trait of for their insane mobiliy and sustain, right? > > oh nvm an ilusionary defender hitting for 16k. > > This is a l2p complaint. It's the same issue with thieves (and really any other class) and it's fine. They need to leave the fight, you've won the point. If they leave, and you are chasing them down, you are playing poorly whether you can catch them or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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