Feedback on the State of the Mesmer [merged]

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

30 pages of Nerf Mesmer tears inc

 

We're almost dere

[solemn.9670]

Mesmer is just ridiculous. It cannot be defended. It is zero risk and all reward. "Learn a few rotations and win every 1v1 unless you're really bad". It less respectable than scourge, it is less respectable than even a pewpew cheese-build ranger. Mesmer is gw2 equivalent of the M16+triple frags in COD4, for anyone who remembers.

[Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046]

> When combat log tells you to just stand and take it "It will be over soon my child" :'(

 

Why don't you make like a Mesmer and evade away.

[bravan.3876]

> @"Hylo.1968" said:

> what do you think?

> Sword ambush now have a **chance** to daze the enemy (30-40%)

> Cronophantasma now leave your resummoned clones with lower hps and thus have a 50% dmg reduction

> GS ambush might stack reduced from 2 per hit to 1, as well as vulnerability.

> Mirage cloak duration now have a 15% reduced duration (3/4 sec instead of 1whole second)

>

Introducing more rng is bad, the player need fixed cds and sure procs to work with, x% chance to daze is just a bad solution. Better give it a cooldown, but i don't think that is needed. I don't see any problem with sword ambush on a not anyway lame build (means phantasmspam build). They could remove the clone it generates is the only change i would agree to.

Mirage cloak was increased from beta because 3/4 was too bad.

Don't nerf traits/skills which don't cause the problems. The new phantasm mechanic is the problem not chronophantasma trait. Nerfing the trait makes it useless for every build not based on phantasmspam. Chronophantasma was totally fine before this stupid new phantasm rules.

 

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"Jojo.6590" said:

>

 

> Mesmer can initiate burst from stealth.

When not played with Mass Invis the mesmer has 3 seconds stealth, every semi decent player knows when to dodge when a mesmer goes into stealth. This is a very not so good player problem in PvP. Stop complaining about something only very not so good player cry about and that since gamerelease 2012... Pure glass power shatter is still a not viable build, very hard to play vs not very not so good player. It is only a good newbie and baddies-killer. Its ridiculous to cry about such a build.

[Vieux P.1238]

Real title on this thread should be **(Feedback on the State of the players that think's there platinum status gives them the pros title because of there passives carrying them there. But can't seem to resolves themselves on why they actually are that bad since passives are removed and don't carry them no more.) ** I mean come on guys..get with the program & start playing & getting to that skill level. Build around the hard counters. Let's go!

[EpicTurtle.8571]

> @"bravan.3876" said:

> > @"Hylo.1968" said:

> > what do you think?

> > Sword ambush now have a **chance** to daze the enemy (30-40%)

> > Cronophantasma now leave your resummoned clones with lower hps and thus have a 50% dmg reduction

> > GS ambush might stack reduced from 2 per hit to 1, as well as vulnerability.

> > Mirage cloak duration now have a 15% reduced duration (3/4 sec instead of 1whole second)

> >

> Introducing more rng is bad, the player need fixed cds and sure procs to work with, x% chance to daze is just a bad solution. Better give it a cooldown, but i don't think that is needed. I don't see any problem with sword ambush on a not anyway lame build (means phantasmspam build). They could remove the clone it generates is the only change i would agree to.

> Mirage cloak was increased from beta because 3/4 was too bad.

> Don't nerf traits/skills which don't cause the problems. The new phantasm mechanic is the problem not chronophantasma trait. Nerfing the trait makes it useless for every build not based on phantasmspam. Chronophantasma was totally fine before this stupid new phantasm rules.

>

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > @"Jojo.6590" said:

> >

>

> > Mesmer can initiate burst from stealth.

> When not played with Mass Invis the mesmer has 3 seconds stealth, every semi decent player knows when to dodge when a mesmer goes into stealth. This is a very not so good player problem in PvP. Stop complaining about something only very not so good player cry about and that since gamerelease 2012... Pure glass power shatter is still a not viable build, very hard to play vs not very not so good player. It is only a good newbie and baddies-killer. Its ridiculous to cry about such a build.

 

I guarantee you more Mesmers would rather keep the new phantasm mechanics rather than reverting them for the sake of a single trait.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > @"Jojo.6590" said:

> >

>

> > Mesmer can initiate burst from stealth.

> When not played with Mass Invis the mesmer has 3 seconds stealth, every semi decent player knows when to dodge when a mesmer goes into stealth. This is a very not so good player problem in PvP. Stop complaining about something only very not so good player cry about and that since gamerelease 2012... Pure glass power shatter is still a not viable build, very hard to play vs not very not so good player. It is only a good newbie and baddies-killer. Its ridiculous to cry about such a build.

 

What if I don't see the mesmer go into stealth? lets say they've entered stealth behind a brick wall and I'm not in combat.

What if the mesmer -Is- running mass invis?

What if the memser is running Torch, decoy, and prismatic understanding? Decoy still stealths you if you dont have a target in range selected, and it wont spawn a clone to give you away if you so choose.

What if the mesmer has entered stealth behind me, behind an obstacle and has blinked into GS range to set up burst?

These are all situations you can run into on the field that would make counting to dodge burst not effective.

 

Not every situation starts out with you visually identifying the mesmer.

Not that any of this detracts from the point that "Mesmer can initiate burst from stealth". That is a fact. Stealth has no telegraph. if it does, I'd like spammable backstab back.

[apharma.3741]

> @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > @"Hylo.1968" said:

> > > what do you think?

> > > Sword ambush now have a **chance** to daze the enemy (30-40%)

> > > Cronophantasma now leave your resummoned clones with lower hps and thus have a 50% dmg reduction

> > > GS ambush might stack reduced from 2 per hit to 1, as well as vulnerability.

> > > Mirage cloak duration now have a 15% reduced duration (3/4 sec instead of 1whole second)

> > >

> > Introducing more rng is bad, the player need fixed cds and sure procs to work with, x% chance to daze is just a bad solution. Better give it a cooldown, but i don't think that is needed. I don't see any problem with sword ambush on a not anyway lame build (means phantasmspam build). They could remove the clone it generates is the only change i would agree to.

> > Mirage cloak was increased from beta because 3/4 was too bad.

> > Don't nerf traits/skills which don't cause the problems. The new phantasm mechanic is the problem not chronophantasma trait. Nerfing the trait makes it useless for every build not based on phantasmspam. Chronophantasma was totally fine before this stupid new phantasm rules.

> >

> > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > > @"Jojo.6590" said:

> > >

> >

> > > Mesmer can initiate burst from stealth.

> > When not played with Mass Invis the mesmer has 3 seconds stealth, every semi decent player knows when to dodge when a mesmer goes into stealth. This is a very not so good player problem in PvP. Stop complaining about something only very not so good player cry about and that since gamerelease 2012... Pure glass power shatter is still a not viable build, very hard to play vs not very not so good player. It is only a good newbie and baddies-killer. Its ridiculous to cry about such a build.

>

> I guarantee you more Mesmers would rather keep the new phantasm mechanics rather than reverting them for the sake of a single trait.

 

Of course because the old phantasm mechanic was so bad that I’m genuinely surprised it stayed past the specialisation rework. I would much prefer the phantasms completely removed and replaced with the mesmer doing an attack and leaving behind a clone. It’s funny how people don’t realise that the attack coming from phantasms always gave the enemy of the mesmer more control over the mesmers damage than the mesmer had. LoS it behind some boxes and cleave, even PvE players know this one.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > > @"Hylo.1968" said:

> > > > what do you think?

> > > > Sword ambush now have a **chance** to daze the enemy (30-40%)

> > > > Cronophantasma now leave your resummoned clones with lower hps and thus have a 50% dmg reduction

> > > > GS ambush might stack reduced from 2 per hit to 1, as well as vulnerability.

> > > > Mirage cloak duration now have a 15% reduced duration (3/4 sec instead of 1whole second)

> > > >

> > > Introducing more rng is bad, the player need fixed cds and sure procs to work with, x% chance to daze is just a bad solution. Better give it a cooldown, but i don't think that is needed. I don't see any problem with sword ambush on a not anyway lame build (means phantasmspam build). They could remove the clone it generates is the only change i would agree to.

> > > Mirage cloak was increased from beta because 3/4 was too bad.

> > > Don't nerf traits/skills which don't cause the problems. The new phantasm mechanic is the problem not chronophantasma trait. Nerfing the trait makes it useless for every build not based on phantasmspam. Chronophantasma was totally fine before this stupid new phantasm rules.

> > >

> > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > > > @"Jojo.6590" said:

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Mesmer can initiate burst from stealth.

> > > When not played with Mass Invis the mesmer has 3 seconds stealth, every semi decent player knows when to dodge when a mesmer goes into stealth. This is a very not so good player problem in PvP. Stop complaining about something only very not so good player cry about and that since gamerelease 2012... Pure glass power shatter is still a not viable build, very hard to play vs not very not so good player. It is only a good newbie and baddies-killer. Its ridiculous to cry about such a build.

> >

> > I guarantee you more Mesmers would rather keep the new phantasm mechanics rather than reverting them for the sake of a single trait.

>

> Of course because the old phantasm mechanic was so bad that I’m genuinely surprised it stayed past the specialisation rework. I would much prefer the phantasms completely removed and replaced with the mesmer doing an attack and leaving behind a clone. It’s funny how people don’t realise that the attack coming from phantasms always gave the enemy of the mesmer more control over the mesmers damage than the mesmer had. LoS it behind some boxes and cleave, even PvE players know this one.

 

I never really did understand why we had that caveat over every other class. 'Oh hey here are some powerful skills just like other classes! Except you can kill them! Super fun and innovative right?!?!?'

 

Although I do hope the would be able to find a way to source it all from the mesmer and keep the animation of an illusion attacking the enemy, just seems appropriate to me.

[Toron.4856]

> @"sinject.4607" said:

> ?

> since anet wont fix this im just gonna sandbag every game i get with a mesmer on my team for purposely making the game worse for everyone else. they know what their playing is detrimental to the game and yet continue doing it, so i'm just gonna enforce some vigilante justice on these losers until their evade/invuln/blind/gap close/boon/bodyblock/phantasm spam gets fixed.

>

> also if you "smart players" want to keep deflecting to deadeye supposedly being a problem, please play one. it's easily one of the worst elites but barely serviceable after thief got s/d and d/p gutted, and i guarantee you that you will get steamrolled compared to playing mesmer/scourge/holo.

 

I feel like doing the same lol

[Curunen.8729]

> @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> > > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > > > @"Hylo.1968" said:

> > > > > what do you think?

> > > > > Sword ambush now have a **chance** to daze the enemy (30-40%)

> > > > > Cronophantasma now leave your resummoned clones with lower hps and thus have a 50% dmg reduction

> > > > > GS ambush might stack reduced from 2 per hit to 1, as well as vulnerability.

> > > > > Mirage cloak duration now have a 15% reduced duration (3/4 sec instead of 1whole second)

> > > > >

> > > > Introducing more rng is bad, the player need fixed cds and sure procs to work with, x% chance to daze is just a bad solution. Better give it a cooldown, but i don't think that is needed. I don't see any problem with sword ambush on a not anyway lame build (means phantasmspam build). They could remove the clone it generates is the only change i would agree to.

> > > > Mirage cloak was increased from beta because 3/4 was too bad.

> > > > Don't nerf traits/skills which don't cause the problems. The new phantasm mechanic is the problem not chronophantasma trait. Nerfing the trait makes it useless for every build not based on phantasmspam. Chronophantasma was totally fine before this stupid new phantasm rules.

> > > >

> > > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > > > > @"Jojo.6590" said:

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > Mesmer can initiate burst from stealth.

> > > > When not played with Mass Invis the mesmer has 3 seconds stealth, every semi decent player knows when to dodge when a mesmer goes into stealth. This is a very not so good player problem in PvP. Stop complaining about something only very not so good player cry about and that since gamerelease 2012... Pure glass power shatter is still a not viable build, very hard to play vs not very not so good player. It is only a good newbie and baddies-killer. Its ridiculous to cry about such a build.

> > >

> > > I guarantee you more Mesmers would rather keep the new phantasm mechanics rather than reverting them for the sake of a single trait.

> >

> > Of course because the old phantasm mechanic was so bad that I’m genuinely surprised it stayed past the specialisation rework. I would much prefer the phantasms completely removed and replaced with the mesmer doing an attack and leaving behind a clone. It’s funny how people don’t realise that the attack coming from phantasms always gave the enemy of the mesmer more control over the mesmers damage than the mesmer had. LoS it behind some boxes and cleave, even PvE players know this one.

>

> I never really did understand why we had that caveat over every other class. 'Oh hey here are some powerful skills just like other classes! Except you can kill them! Super fun and innovative right?!?!?'

>

> Although I do hope the would be able to find a way to source it all from the mesmer and keep the animation of an illusion attacking the enemy, just seems appropriate to me.

 

Potentially it could be done like those iboga hallucinations in pve - the ones with those black shadowy spiders falling around and other weird things.

 

So all the damage would then come from mesmer skills but there would be untargetable hallucinations (can still use phantasm models but they wouldn't do any damage or be targetable) as visual distraction only.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > > @"Jojo.6590" said:

> > >

> >

> > > Mesmer can initiate burst from stealth.

> > When not played with Mass Invis the mesmer has 3 seconds stealth, every semi decent player knows when to dodge when a mesmer goes into stealth. This is a very not so good player problem in PvP. Stop complaining about something only very not so good player cry about and that since gamerelease 2012... Pure glass power shatter is still a not viable build, very hard to play vs not very not so good player. It is only a good newbie and baddies-killer. Its ridiculous to cry about such a build.

>

> What if I don't see the mesmer go into stealth? lets say they've entered stealth behind a brick wall and I'm not in combat.

> What if the mesmer -Is- running mass invis?

> What if the memser is running Torch, decoy, and prismatic understanding? Decoy still stealths you if you dont have a target in range selected, and it wont spawn a clone to give you away if you so choose.

> What if the mesmer has entered stealth behind me, behind an obstacle and has blinked into GS range to set up burst?

> These are all situations you can run into on the field that would make counting to dodge burst not effective.

>

> Not every situation starts out with you visually identifying the mesmer.

> Not that any of this detracts from the point that "Mesmer can initiate burst from stealth". That is a fact. Stealth has no telegraph. if it does, I'd like spammable backstab back.

 

If you get jumped by a Power Mesmer you can see the Mirror blade even if they're stealthed. If you dodge the mirror blade, you're golden. Most of their burst is gone. If they open with the stun you can stunbreak and dodge since you'll know the burst is coming. [Like this](

"Like this").

 

If the mesmer is running torch, decoy, and prismatic understanding that means they either aren't running portal, the daze mantra or blink, and they've invested in a traitline that's going to make them significantlly less threatening damagewise so you would actually be much more likely to kill them. The opportunity cost of not having the stun mantra, not having the stunbreak with blink, and not having portal which is easily the most powerful utility skill in PvP would be extremely devestating, especially since burst mesmer is a +1er and they'd be giving away so much mobility.

[Icy.2186]

The class is absolute fucking bollocks. Other than a million blocks, damage reductions, constant clone spam, invulnerability, more block, a fuck ton of condi, decent mobility the class tops it off with a cleave attack that makes it evade while doing so. By the time all of this is over you probably have 100 confusions and 300 vulnerabilities on you but why would a mesmer bother attacking when it has a BLOCK that does damage and continue back to cycle invulnerabilities / iframes.

Or it has that even more interactive build, where it just 1shots in an aoe. Gotten 1shot alongside my warrior teammate in SPVP once, seems good.

 

In general i would complain about the incredibly large amount of on click "immortality" buttons within certain classes and the game in general or how easily some classes seem to stack 25 vulnerability ( effectively 25% more damage ) but mesmer just has everything other classes do ( that i hate ) times 5. Dear lord i hate to see the bloody thing.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > > > @"Jojo.6590" said:

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Mesmer can initiate burst from stealth.

> > > When not played with Mass Invis the mesmer has 3 seconds stealth, every semi decent player knows when to dodge when a mesmer goes into stealth. This is a very not so good player problem in PvP. Stop complaining about something only very not so good player cry about and that since gamerelease 2012... Pure glass power shatter is still a not viable build, very hard to play vs not very not so good player. It is only a good newbie and baddies-killer. Its ridiculous to cry about such a build.

> >

> > What if I don't see the mesmer go into stealth? lets say they've entered stealth behind a brick wall and I'm not in combat.

> > What if the mesmer -Is- running mass invis?

> > What if the memser is running Torch, decoy, and prismatic understanding? Decoy still stealths you if you dont have a target in range selected, and it wont spawn a clone to give you away if you so choose.

> > What if the mesmer has entered stealth behind me, behind an obstacle and has blinked into GS range to set up burst?

> > These are all situations you can run into on the field that would make counting to dodge burst not effective.

> >

> > Not every situation starts out with you visually identifying the mesmer.

> > Not that any of this detracts from the point that "Mesmer can initiate burst from stealth". That is a fact. Stealth has no telegraph. if it does, I'd like spammable backstab back.

>

> If you get jumped by a Power Mesmer you can see the Mirror blade even if they're stealthed. If you dodge the mirror blade, you're golden. Most of their burst is gone. If they open with the stun you can stunbreak and dodge since you'll know the burst is coming. [Like this](

"Like this").

>

> If the mesmer is running torch, decoy, and prismatic understanding that means they either aren't running portal, the daze mantra or blink, and they've invested in a traitline that's going to make them significantlly less threatening damagewise so you would actually be much more likely to kill them. The opportunity cost of not having the stun mantra, not having the stunbreak with blink, and not having portal which is easily the most powerful utility skill in PvP would be extremely devestating, especially since burst mesmer is a +1er and they'd be giving away so much mobility.

 

Yes. That's not the point I'm trying to make, though. My intent was to prove that there are situations in which mesmers can open on you from stealth, not their respective viabilities.

My issues are largely with the overperformance of Chrono and Mirage, not core Mesmer or its associated traits. I provided those scenarios to prove that there are situations in which a mesmer can open on you with no telegraph, specifically to address the rant that tries to discredit everyone claiming that mesmer is unbalanced.

 

 

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > > > > @"Jojo.6590" said:

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > > Mesmer can initiate burst from stealth.

> > > > When not played with Mass Invis the mesmer has 3 seconds stealth, every semi decent player knows when to dodge when a mesmer goes into stealth. This is a very not so good player problem in PvP. Stop complaining about something only very not so good player cry about and that since gamerelease 2012... Pure glass power shatter is still a not viable build, very hard to play vs not very not so good player. It is only a good newbie and baddies-killer. Its ridiculous to cry about such a build.

> > >

> > > What if I don't see the mesmer go into stealth? lets say they've entered stealth behind a brick wall and I'm not in combat.

> > > What if the mesmer -Is- running mass invis?

> > > What if the memser is running Torch, decoy, and prismatic understanding? Decoy still stealths you if you dont have a target in range selected, and it wont spawn a clone to give you away if you so choose.

> > > What if the mesmer has entered stealth behind me, behind an obstacle and has blinked into GS range to set up burst?

> > > These are all situations you can run into on the field that would make counting to dodge burst not effective.

> > >

> > > Not every situation starts out with you visually identifying the mesmer.

> > > Not that any of this detracts from the point that "Mesmer can initiate burst from stealth". That is a fact. Stealth has no telegraph. if it does, I'd like spammable backstab back.

> >

> > If you get jumped by a Power Mesmer you can see the Mirror blade even if they're stealthed. If you dodge the mirror blade, you're golden. Most of their burst is gone. If they open with the stun you can stunbreak and dodge since you'll know the burst is coming. [Like this](

"Like this").

> >

> > If the mesmer is running torch, decoy, and prismatic understanding that means they either aren't running portal, the daze mantra or blink, and they've invested in a traitline that's going to make them significantlly less threatening damagewise so you would actually be much more likely to kill them. The opportunity cost of not having the stun mantra, not having the stunbreak with blink, and not having portal which is easily the most powerful utility skill in PvP would be extremely devestating, especially since burst mesmer is a +1er and they'd be giving away so much mobility.

>

> Yes. That's not the point I'm trying to make, though. My intent was to prove that there are situations in which mesmers can open on you from stealth, not their respective viabilities.

> My issues are largely with the overperformance of Chrono and Mirage, not core Mesmer or its associated traits. I provided those scenarios to prove that there are situations in which a mesmer can open on you with no telegraph.

>

>

 

But there would be a telegraph. You could still see the the mirror blade or stun daze and react to it.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> But there would be a telegraph. You could still see the the mirror blade or stun daze and react to it.

 

Doesn't that depend on the location of the caster? If they are close to you or behind you, you have less time to react to the initial blade.

 

That being said, I concede on that one point. Camera angle is not a suitable excuse, if the telegraph exists it exists.

That is a portion of Mesmer's core though. I would rather the focus be on the phantasms/elite specs rather than general Mesmer performance, so I'll cool down on the wild rhetoric.

 

Something -does- need to be done though. I'm still taking issue with the people pretending it's fine.

[skeptic.2409]

> @"Imperadordf.2687" said:

> As most of you already know, Mesmer is considered one of the, if not “the”, best classes around. We see a lot of threads daily complaining about evades, blocks, invulnerabilities, massive damage etc. But most of these threads are useless because they add nothing to the topic. I think it’s time to say what needs changing and what doesn’t.

>

> Starting with;

>

> **Chaos**

>

> Chaos traitline is the defensive and boon-focused traitline of Mesmer, and has a lot of boon stacking tied to it. It has more than decent amount of Protection - Regen application, and can provide other boons. The biggest issue of this traitline is Bountiful Disillusionment - Chaotic Persistence - Descent into Madness combo. That provides so much boons and gives boon duration through Chaotic Persistence, allowing the Mesmer to keep up other boons such as Might and Vigor.

>

> With the recent changes I think this traitline is more in line but still needs little tweaks.

>

> **Dueling**

>

> This might be one of the most balanced trailtines in the game, it has some nice things in it, but the other traitlines provide more utility because of the Meta we have right now. It provides Fury - Vigor and enchances critical hits, but other builds can keep those up and grant extra things aswell.

>

> **Inspiration**

>

> This traitline is support and bunking focused, has cleanses, heals and some boons. Used with Chronomancer-Bunker builds. I think it’s balanced. Not the best, not the worst.

>

> **Domination**

>

> This traitline is focused on interrupts and vulnerability, and has probably the most annoying trait, ever.

>

> *Confounding Suggestions.* This trait inflicts stun whenever you daze a target. Mesmer has a lot of access to daze through Diversion, Mantra of Pain, Mirage Thrust etc.

>

> What I would do with this trait is either replace Confounding Suggestions with something else, or lower the chance of inflicting stun.

>

> Confounding Suggestions combined with Mental Anguish and some burst through Greatsword, makes a strong combo and it’s almost uncounterable because if the Mesmer shatters with 2-3 clones, they apply stun 2-3 times. So even if you stunbreak through the first, you’ll probably going to get caught second time and get bursted.

>

> **Illusions**

>

> This traitline is focused on Shatters and clones, improving damage and utility.

>

> The traitline is mostly balanced but - Persistence of Memory combined with the crazy boon stacking from Chaos line, the quickness and Might Mesmer gains from Phantasmal Haste and Phantasmal Force, the Damage boost Mesmer gets from Compounding Power and the phantasm-spam we have right now, it is too powerful.

>

> The right choice to balance this would probably be;

> -Adding an Internal Cooldown to Persistence of Memory

> -Making Persistence of Memory transfer limited amount of boons

>

> The latter seems more effective and wouldn’t cripple the Mesmer players with another Internal Cooldown.

>

> **Chronomancer**

>

> The only problem of the traitline is Chronophantasma, which spawns another phantasm when you cast one. It’s powerful because of Persistence of Memory or if the Chronomancer is fully offensive, it can output massive amounts of damage. The best example would be iDisenchanter.

>

> The best fixes would be;

> -Making Chronophantasma recharge that phantasm skill, instead of passively spawning it. This would add more active gameplay and reduce the visual noise.

> -Adding a cap of maximum 3 *active* phantasms. Now by active phantasms I mean newer ones won’t replace the older ones. Instead, they will go in a queue. For example, I cast iBerserker on Greatsword and swap to Staff, then cast iWarlock. This would spawn 6 (8 if Imagined Burden is traited) phantasms and would go over the cap. Now with my idea, first 3 phantasms will perform their attack, and turn to clones. But I casted 6? Other ones will spawn *after* the first 3 executes their attacks, again, reducing the visual noise.

>

> **Mirage**

>

> “Tons of blocks, invulns, evades..” We see those everytime in forums. Well the Mesmer needs *a lot* of things combined to do that.

>

> The problems with the traitline;

>

> Self-Deception : This provides an instant extra clone from Jaunt (which is the only Deception skill people use). Making the life easier for Shatter builds. The correct fix would be making the clone spawned spawn dazed. Like 0,25 seconds.

>

> Renewing Oasis : This basically is permanent Regen if you have Staff. It also gives condition duration reduction so if the Mesmer isn’t against a Scourge, this trait is a straight up %20 damage reduction against condition builds. The correct fix would be lowering it to %12-15.

>

> Nomad’s Endurance : Permanent Vigor and permanent +150 Condition Damage. Correct fix is changing the numbers.

>

> #Elusive Mind

>

> The infamous trait. Having an on-demand stunbreak with 10 second cooldown (7,5 with Vigor, which is mostly kept up) is overpowered.

>

> The problem is, this trait can’t be balanced without destroying it, just like Sand Savant. Mesmer players have been saying that the trait would be overpowered and should be replaced since the beta weekends.

>

> It is a very forgiving trait because even the Mesmer gets hit by a well-timed stun, this is a get out of jail free card.

>

> But Exhaustion was the wrong answer. Exhaustion is an unfun mechanic. We saw that with the Unhindered Combatant change. The problem is Mirage has no access to direct endurance gain like Daredevil and Mirage is still powerful and will still be powerful because Mirage Cloak can be casted while stunned. That rends any well timed crowd control skill useless.

>

> I can think of some fixes, but they’d make Elusive Mind obsolete.

>

> -Removing the Stunbreak. Easy and simple.

>

> -To compensate (optimal), the Mirage clears a condition whenever it gains Mirage Cloak.

>

> I’m open to feedback.

 

ITS NOT THE SKILLS

ITS THE DAMAGE LOWER IT

THAT SIMPLE

both apply to thief and mesmer LOWER DMG

 

I dont care about the skills I can dodge . block, many things to get out

but to get bursted down for ALL MY HEALTH EVEN WHEN IM BUILDING TANK

 

makes no sense

you want to hit me for 8k ill take that

BUT TO HIT ME FOR 20K+

 

that's stupid fix it

also I figured out what is ruining the game

 

FREE TO PLAY THAT'S WHAT IT IS,

that's one of the reasons I stopped playing and took a break

cause not gonna lie the human race is not that smart, they have no macro don't understand what to do the only thing they can do is kill

 

basically you are becoming another version of league of legends and that game is slowly dying, cause there are nothing but idiots on their

who can't use common sense and you have allowed them to enter the game lol

 

GOOD LUCK ARENA NET +_+

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > But there would be a telegraph. You could still see the the mirror blade or stun daze and react to it.

>

> Doesn't that depend on the location of the caster? If they are close to you or behind you, you have less time to react to the initial blade.

>

> That being said, I concede on that one point. Camera angle is not a suitable excuse, if the telegraph exists it exists.

> That is a portion of Mesmer's core though. I would rather the focus be on the phantasms/elite specs rather than general Mesmer performance, so I'll cool down on the wild rhetoric.

>

> Something -does- need to be done though. I'm still taking issue with the people pretending it's fine.

 

Mesmer across the board is a problem. Greatsword burst needs to be brought down. Chronophantasma and Signet of the Ether don't deserve to exist in a world where phantasms are all this powerful. Infinite Horizons is insanity and Phantasmal Force shouldn't be granting might. Persisting Memory should also be looked at. But I genuinly don't think Mesmer stealth is where the problem currently lies.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > But there would be a telegraph. You could still see the the mirror blade or stun daze and react to it.

> >

> > Doesn't that depend on the location of the caster? If they are close to you or behind you, you have less time to react to the initial blade.

> >

> > That being said, I concede on that one point. Camera angle is not a suitable excuse, if the telegraph exists it exists.

> > That is a portion of Mesmer's core though. I would rather the focus be on the phantasms/elite specs rather than general Mesmer performance, so I'll cool down on the wild rhetoric.

> >

> > Something -does- need to be done though. I'm still taking issue with the people pretending it's fine.

>

> Mesmer across the board is a problem. Greatsword burst needs to be brought down. Chronophantasma and Signet of the Ether don't deserve to exist in a world where phantasms are all this powerful. Infinite Horizons is insanity and Phantasmal Force shouldn't be granting might. Persisting Memory should also be looked at. But I genuinly don't think Mesmer stealth is where the problem currently lies.

 

Infinite Horizons is fine now, the only Ambushes that are off the wall really are Mirage Thrust and that's an outlier that honestly needs some trimming down. Otherwise GS clone ambush doesn't deal full damage, Scepter Clones are 1/2 as effective, Axe Clones are 1/3rd as effective.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > But there would be a telegraph. You could still see the the mirror blade or stun daze and react to it.

> > >

> > > Doesn't that depend on the location of the caster? If they are close to you or behind you, you have less time to react to the initial blade.

> > >

> > > That being said, I concede on that one point. Camera angle is not a suitable excuse, if the telegraph exists it exists.

> > > That is a portion of Mesmer's core though. I would rather the focus be on the phantasms/elite specs rather than general Mesmer performance, so I'll cool down on the wild rhetoric.

> > >

> > > Something -does- need to be done though. I'm still taking issue with the people pretending it's fine.

> >

> > Mesmer across the board is a problem. Greatsword burst needs to be brought down. Chronophantasma and Signet of the Ether don't deserve to exist in a world where phantasms are all this powerful. Infinite Horizons is insanity and Phantasmal Force shouldn't be granting might. Persisting Memory should also be looked at. But I genuinly don't think Mesmer stealth is where the problem currently lies.

>

> Infinite Horizons is fine now, the only Ambushes that are off the wall really are Mirage Thrust and that's an outlier that honestly needs some trimming down. Otherwise GS clone ambush doesn't deal full damage, Scepter Clones are 1/2 as effective, Axe Clones are 1/3rd as effective.

 

My bad. I meant Elusive Mind, not Infinite Horizon.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > But there would be a telegraph. You could still see the the mirror blade or stun daze and react to it.

> > > >

> > > > Doesn't that depend on the location of the caster? If they are close to you or behind you, you have less time to react to the initial blade.

> > > >

> > > > That being said, I concede on that one point. Camera angle is not a suitable excuse, if the telegraph exists it exists.

> > > > That is a portion of Mesmer's core though. I would rather the focus be on the phantasms/elite specs rather than general Mesmer performance, so I'll cool down on the wild rhetoric.

> > > >

> > > > Something -does- need to be done though. I'm still taking issue with the people pretending it's fine.

> > >

> > > Mesmer across the board is a problem. Greatsword burst needs to be brought down. Chronophantasma and Signet of the Ether don't deserve to exist in a world where phantasms are all this powerful. Infinite Horizons is insanity and Phantasmal Force shouldn't be granting might. Persisting Memory should also be looked at. But I genuinly don't think Mesmer stealth is where the problem currently lies.

> >

> > Infinite Horizons is fine now, the only Ambushes that are off the wall really are Mirage Thrust and that's an outlier that honestly needs some trimming down. Otherwise GS clone ambush doesn't deal full damage, Scepter Clones are 1/2 as effective, Axe Clones are 1/3rd as effective.

>

> My bad. I meant Elusive Mind, not Infinite Horizon.

 

Tbh, they reap what they sowed. We told them since beta that it needed to be fixed, they got to our other complaints but conveniently skipped over that one.

[Chilli.2976]

This is what you get for saying nerf this nerf that - once memser is nerfed there will be another similar post for another class. This is a never ending cycle. L2P

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > > But there would be a telegraph. You could still see the the mirror blade or stun daze and react to it.

> > > > >

> > > > > Doesn't that depend on the location of the caster? If they are close to you or behind you, you have less time to react to the initial blade.

> > > > >

> > > > > That being said, I concede on that one point. Camera angle is not a suitable excuse, if the telegraph exists it exists.

> > > > > That is a portion of Mesmer's core though. I would rather the focus be on the phantasms/elite specs rather than general Mesmer performance, so I'll cool down on the wild rhetoric.

> > > > >

> > > > > Something -does- need to be done though. I'm still taking issue with the people pretending it's fine.

> > > >

> > > > Mesmer across the board is a problem. Greatsword burst needs to be brought down. Chronophantasma and Signet of the Ether don't deserve to exist in a world where phantasms are all this powerful. Infinite Horizons is insanity and Phantasmal Force shouldn't be granting might. Persisting Memory should also be looked at. But I genuinly don't think Mesmer stealth is where the problem currently lies.

> > >

> > > Infinite Horizons is fine now, the only Ambushes that are off the wall really are Mirage Thrust and that's an outlier that honestly needs some trimming down. Otherwise GS clone ambush doesn't deal full damage, Scepter Clones are 1/2 as effective, Axe Clones are 1/3rd as effective.

> >

> > My bad. I meant Elusive Mind, not Infinite Horizon.

>

> Tbh, they reap what they sowed. We told them since beta that it needed to be fixed, they got to our other complaints but conveniently skipped over that one.

 

Yeah. Like after the first demo weekend when everyone universally was like "Mirage is really awkward and clunky to play. It also doesn't feel like it does much damage to be a viable DPS spec." everyone was still like "But Elusive Mind is pure insanity."

[Odik.4587]

> @"Chilli.2976" said:

> This is what you get for saying nerf this nerf that - once memser is nerfed there will be another similar post for another class. This is a never ending cycle. L2P

 

I'm skipping whatever its going there and dont want to argue with ppl with little understanding , especially those who constnatly die to power GS that was in game for 5 years and people learned to dodge it when it was meta, now we have monkeys left that cant find dodge button. I'm shocked someone want to revert phantasm rework to keep CP xD

But Mesmer truly need nerf , explained earlier. (But if tldr - CP,double phantasms, defender, disenchanter,shield phantasm)

[bravan.3876]

> @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > @"Hylo.1968" said:

> > > what do you think?

> > > Sword ambush now have a **chance** to daze the enemy (30-40%)

> > > Cronophantasma now leave your resummoned clones with lower hps and thus have a 50% dmg reduction

> > > GS ambush might stack reduced from 2 per hit to 1, as well as vulnerability.

> > > Mirage cloak duration now have a 15% reduced duration (3/4 sec instead of 1whole second)

> > >

> > Introducing more rng is bad, the player need fixed cds and sure procs to work with, x% chance to daze is just a bad solution. Better give it a cooldown, but i don't think that is needed. I don't see any problem with sword ambush on a not anyway lame build (means phantasmspam build). They could remove the clone it generates is the only change i would agree to.

> > Mirage cloak was increased from beta because 3/4 was too bad.

> > Don't nerf traits/skills which don't cause the problems. The new phantasm mechanic is the problem not chronophantasma trait. Nerfing the trait makes it useless for every build not based on phantasmspam. Chronophantasma was totally fine before this stupid new phantasm rules.

> >

> > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > > @"Jojo.6590" said:

> > >

> >

> > > Mesmer can initiate burst from stealth.

> > When not played with Mass Invis the mesmer has 3 seconds stealth, every semi decent player knows when to dodge when a mesmer goes into stealth. This is a very not so good player problem in PvP. Stop complaining about something only very not so good player cry about and that since gamerelease 2012... Pure glass power shatter is still a not viable build, very hard to play vs not very not so good player. It is only a good newbie and baddies-killer. Its ridiculous to cry about such a build.

>

> I guarantee you more Mesmers would rather keep the new phantasm mechanics rather than reverting them for the sake of a single trait.

 

That is why Anet should not ask them, seriously. It is not about revert the new rule for the sake of a trait, it is about revert the phantasm rule because it is broken itself. And trying to make it balanced by nerf traits that don't cause the problem in the first place is just the same bad balance anet is doing so often. Mesmers class mechanic is about shattering, so there is no reason a phantasm spam build should even exist, not by having perma living phantams in the old rule but also not by having 2000 million high dmg phantams with the new rule. The only change was needed to kill the pve build that has 3 phantasms permanently up and only autoattacked to the content was making phantams turn into clones after one attack. Problem solved. If mesmer need to get compentsated in pve for the dmg lose than compensate them in pve only. In PvP the change is a buff to shattermesmer already and don't need more dmg on phantams or more skills/ traits with 2 instead of 1 phantasm spammable.

 

A phantasm spam mirage is also broken and can't use chronophantasma. Chronophantasma just increase an existing problem not cause it.

So balance the problem and not traits which not cause the problem and which you make useless for every other build not based on phantasm spam. It's like nerfing core traitlines to balance op elite specs. It is just balance changes at the wrong plances anet is known for and now ppl in forums even ask for bad balance desicions... it is just not logic to not balance the problem itself. cut some leaves instead the roots.