This game has gotten too fast for me

[Lyger.5429]

I'm all for reducing power creep but if you nerf damage too much, it will feel "bad" to play your preferred class. To be honest if they deal with mesmers and tone down damage slightly we will have a lot more build diversity. As many builds will start returning and already have.

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > @"Kageseigi.2150" said:

> > > > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > > Now that passive defensive traits were nerfed in PvP, the next things that the balance team needs to tackle are roughly:

> > >

> > > Please just leave Thief out of the entire next patch. Thank you :-)

> >

> > Thief definitely has some things that still need nerfing. But I do agree that they need many fewer nerfs/redesigns than other classes right now.

>

> Im curious what you think needs nerfed since our issue builds were addressed last patch. S/D Lacernous Strike got hit and D/P for no real reason at all. We have very little access to stealth unless we combo with black powder. If you are referencing the cheese build of Deadeye with rifle or P/P then yes I will admit I can see how that build is annoying as hell to play against.

 

teleports could be nerfed because there's no way to counter them, and stealth could be removed from ranked ( nobody will miss it ).

[Aza.2105]

> @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > @"Kageseigi.2150" said:

> > > > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > > Now that passive defensive traits were nerfed in PvP, the next things that the balance team needs to tackle are roughly:

> > >

> > > Please just leave Thief out of the entire next patch. Thank you :-)

> >

> > Thief definitely has some things that still need nerfing. But I do agree that they need many fewer nerfs/redesigns than other classes right now.

>

> Im curious what you think needs nerfed since our issue builds were addressed last patch. S/D Lacernous Strike got hit and D/P for no real reason at all. We have very little access to stealth unless we combo with black powder. If you are referencing the cheese build of Deadeye with rifle or P/P then yes I will admit I can see how that build is annoying as hell to play against.

 

All evades on offensive skills need to be changed to "blocks while using offensive skills". That way you still get the mitigation but its open to counter play.

[omgdracula.6345]

> @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > > @"Kageseigi.2150" said:

> > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > > > Now that passive defensive traits were nerfed in PvP, the next things that the balance team needs to tackle are roughly:

> > > >

> > > > Please just leave Thief out of the entire next patch. Thank you :-)

> > >

> > > Thief definitely has some things that still need nerfing. But I do agree that they need many fewer nerfs/redesigns than other classes right now.

> >

> > Im curious what you think needs nerfed since our issue builds were addressed last patch. S/D Lacernous Strike got hit and D/P for no real reason at all. We have very little access to stealth unless we combo with black powder. If you are referencing the cheese build of Deadeye with rifle or P/P then yes I will admit I can see how that build is annoying as hell to play against.

>

> teleports could be nerfed because there's no way to counter them, and stealth could be removed from ranked ( nobody will miss it ).

 

getting rid of stealth breaks so much shit on thief if it got removed lol.

[omgdracula.6345]

> @"Aza.2105" said:

> > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > > @"Kageseigi.2150" said:

> > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > > > Now that passive defensive traits were nerfed in PvP, the next things that the balance team needs to tackle are roughly:

> > > >

> > > > Please just leave Thief out of the entire next patch. Thank you :-)

> > >

> > > Thief definitely has some things that still need nerfing. But I do agree that they need many fewer nerfs/redesigns than other classes right now.

> >

> > Im curious what you think needs nerfed since our issue builds were addressed last patch. S/D Lacernous Strike got hit and D/P for no real reason at all. We have very little access to stealth unless we combo with black powder. If you are referencing the cheese build of Deadeye with rifle or P/P then yes I will admit I can see how that build is annoying as hell to play against.

>

> All evades on offensive skills need to be changed to "blocks while using offensive skills". That way you still get the mitigation but its open to counter play.

 

I would actually be okay with this for the most part.

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > > > @"Kageseigi.2150" said:

> > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > > > > Now that passive defensive traits were nerfed in PvP, the next things that the balance team needs to tackle are roughly:

> > > > >

> > > > > Please just leave Thief out of the entire next patch. Thank you :-)

> > > >

> > > > Thief definitely has some things that still need nerfing. But I do agree that they need many fewer nerfs/redesigns than other classes right now.

> > >

> > > Im curious what you think needs nerfed since our issue builds were addressed last patch. S/D Lacernous Strike got hit and D/P for no real reason at all. We have very little access to stealth unless we combo with black powder. If you are referencing the cheese build of Deadeye with rifle or P/P then yes I will admit I can see how that build is annoying as hell to play against.

> >

> > teleports could be nerfed because there's no way to counter them, and stealth could be removed from ranked ( nobody will miss it ).

>

> getting rid of stealth breaks so much kitten on thief if it got removed lol.

 

Yeah, but think about other classes like druid, mesmer and engineer.

They won't be able any longer to run away and return the way they like.

 

Also, remember that with the current thief it could be broken, but a revised thief would be performant ( I am not saying to remove stealth and leave thief as it is now ).

[omgdracula.6345]

> @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > > > > @"Kageseigi.2150" said:

> > > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > > > > > Now that passive defensive traits were nerfed in PvP, the next things that the balance team needs to tackle are roughly:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Please just leave Thief out of the entire next patch. Thank you :-)

> > > > >

> > > > > Thief definitely has some things that still need nerfing. But I do agree that they need many fewer nerfs/redesigns than other classes right now.

> > > >

> > > > Im curious what you think needs nerfed since our issue builds were addressed last patch. S/D Lacernous Strike got hit and D/P for no real reason at all. We have very little access to stealth unless we combo with black powder. If you are referencing the cheese build of Deadeye with rifle or P/P then yes I will admit I can see how that build is annoying as hell to play against.

> > >

> > > teleports could be nerfed because there's no way to counter them, and stealth could be removed from ranked ( nobody will miss it ).

> >

> > getting rid of stealth breaks so much kitten on thief if it got removed lol.

>

> Yeah, but think about other classes like druid, mesmer and engineer.

> They won't be able any longer to run away and return the way they like.

>

> Also, remember that with the current thief it could be broken, but a revised thief would be performant ( I am not saying to remove stealth and leave thief as it is now ).

 

I don't think Anet would ptu in the effort. Not only would you have to change how multiple skills function, you would have to redo the DE elite skill as well as literally a whole spec line built around stealth. Not to mention skills that would combo with shadow fields to grant stealth.

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > > > > > @"Kageseigi.2150" said:

> > > > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > > > > > > Now that passive defensive traits were nerfed in PvP, the next things that the balance team needs to tackle are roughly:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Please just leave Thief out of the entire next patch. Thank you :-)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thief definitely has some things that still need nerfing. But I do agree that they need many fewer nerfs/redesigns than other classes right now.

> > > > >

> > > > > Im curious what you think needs nerfed since our issue builds were addressed last patch. S/D Lacernous Strike got hit and D/P for no real reason at all. We have very little access to stealth unless we combo with black powder. If you are referencing the cheese build of Deadeye with rifle or P/P then yes I will admit I can see how that build is annoying as hell to play against.

> > > >

> > > > teleports could be nerfed because there's no way to counter them, and stealth could be removed from ranked ( nobody will miss it ).

> > >

> > > getting rid of stealth breaks so much kitten on thief if it got removed lol.

> >

> > Yeah, but think about other classes like druid, mesmer and engineer.

> > They won't be able any longer to run away and return the way they like.

> >

> > Also, remember that with the current thief it could be broken, but a revised thief would be performant ( I am not saying to remove stealth and leave thief as it is now ).

>

> I don't think Anet would ptu in the effort. Not only would you have to change how multiple skills function, you would have to redo the DE elite skill as well as literally a whole spec line built around stealth. Not to mention skills that would combo with shadow fields to grant stealth.

 

Smoke field.

However, yeah, smoke field would be the only problem there.

 

A game without stealth would imho be more appreciated, but I also suppose that they won't go that far in order to bring balance ( even if it would be the right path to follow ).

[omgdracula.6345]

> @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Kageseigi.2150" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > > > > > > > Now that passive defensive traits were nerfed in PvP, the next things that the balance team needs to tackle are roughly:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Please just leave Thief out of the entire next patch. Thank you :-)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thief definitely has some things that still need nerfing. But I do agree that they need many fewer nerfs/redesigns than other classes right now.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Im curious what you think needs nerfed since our issue builds were addressed last patch. S/D Lacernous Strike got hit and D/P for no real reason at all. We have very little access to stealth unless we combo with black powder. If you are referencing the cheese build of Deadeye with rifle or P/P then yes I will admit I can see how that build is annoying as hell to play against.

> > > > >

> > > > > teleports could be nerfed because there's no way to counter them, and stealth could be removed from ranked ( nobody will miss it ).

> > > >

> > > > getting rid of stealth breaks so much kitten on thief if it got removed lol.

> > >

> > > Yeah, but think about other classes like druid, mesmer and engineer.

> > > They won't be able any longer to run away and return the way they like.

> > >

> > > Also, remember that with the current thief it could be broken, but a revised thief would be performant ( I am not saying to remove stealth and leave thief as it is now ).

> >

> > I don't think Anet would ptu in the effort. Not only would you have to change how multiple skills function, you would have to redo the DE elite skill as well as literally a whole spec line built around stealth. Not to mention skills that would combo with shadow fields to grant stealth.

>

> Smoke field.

> However, yeah, smoke field would be the only problem there.

>

> A game without stealth would imho be more appreciated, but I also suppose that they won't go that far in order to bring balance ( even if it would be the right path to follow ).

 

If people can't handle stealth, that is a learn to play issue honestly lol. It isn't like other MMO infinite stealth with the click of a button. That would be WAY worse.

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said:

> > > > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Kageseigi.2150" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > > > > > > > > Now that passive defensive traits were nerfed in PvP, the next things that the balance team needs to tackle are roughly:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Please just leave Thief out of the entire next patch. Thank you :-)

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thief definitely has some things that still need nerfing. But I do agree that they need many fewer nerfs/redesigns than other classes right now.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Im curious what you think needs nerfed since our issue builds were addressed last patch. S/D Lacernous Strike got hit and D/P for no real reason at all. We have very little access to stealth unless we combo with black powder. If you are referencing the cheese build of Deadeye with rifle or P/P then yes I will admit I can see how that build is annoying as hell to play against.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > teleports could be nerfed because there's no way to counter them, and stealth could be removed from ranked ( nobody will miss it ).

> > > > >

> > > > > getting rid of stealth breaks so much kitten on thief if it got removed lol.

> > > >

> > > > Yeah, but think about other classes like druid, mesmer and engineer.

> > > > They won't be able any longer to run away and return the way they like.

> > > >

> > > > Also, remember that with the current thief it could be broken, but a revised thief would be performant ( I am not saying to remove stealth and leave thief as it is now ).

> > >

> > > I don't think Anet would ptu in the effort. Not only would you have to change how multiple skills function, you would have to redo the DE elite skill as well as literally a whole spec line built around stealth. Not to mention skills that would combo with shadow fields to grant stealth.

> >

> > Smoke field.

> > However, yeah, smoke field would be the only problem there.

> >

> > A game without stealth would imho be more appreciated, but I also suppose that they won't go that far in order to bring balance ( even if it would be the right path to follow ).

>

> If people can't handle stealth, that is a learn to play issue honestly lol. It isn't like other MMO infinite stealth with the click of a button. That would be WAY worse.

 

In other mmos you have macros such a targetlasttarget, and you don't have a spam of effects ( scourges anyone? ) and characters ( mesmer anyone? ) to deal with.

 

So yeah, in other mmos is simplier ( and here's the problem is not in a 1v1 scenario, which is easy even if the current mesmer spawns too copies, but during a point fight team v team ).

 

Also here in gw2 there's lack of skills which put reveal on target, so there's no real counter to stealth ( but scrapper provvides a great aoe low cd ).

[Zionite.5924]

> @"pah.4931" said:

> > @"Zionite.5924" said:

> > I'm back after a long break and I'm in decent gear I think and maybe averaged skilled at pvp. Full exotics. This game wasn't heavily gear based, but, kitten, I've been getting two shotted in PVP. It's the only thing in GW2 that I cannot stand. It just makes me irritated. And that new victory/losing screen? Talk about discouraging. I saw that and instantly thought, "well, that's enough pvp for me".

> > Some of the changes to skills I like, but I can definitely agree with the OP.

> > Fortunately, GW2 has so many enjoyable aspects outside of PVP so I mainly focus on that. I don't have as much time to play and practice as I used to so when I try to avoid PVP because I don't want the limited time I do have to be taken up by being steamrolled and the overall toxicity.

> >

> > I am more than happy being a PVE carebear because it allows me to enjoy the game and not rage quit.

>

> Gear doesn't matter in sPvP (though it does in WvW). Only thing that matters is your "build" (most stats come from your amulet, then some more from runes). The gear you're wearing when you go into a match (white, green, yellow, orange, pink) doesn't affect your stats. You may already know this, but just in case you don't I thought I'd throw this out there.

>

> You may need a different amulet / rune setup if you're getting blown up so quickly. You can go to the PvP lobby to set up different builds.

 

I'm in full carrion gear so I don't know what the problem is.

[Kageseigi.2150]

> @"witcher.3197" said:

> My theory is that Anet balance team doesn't play PvP and has no idea whatsoever about the state of the gamemode, **instead they operate on principles.**

 

I could definitely see this. However, if true, then Anet's principles are quite fallacious. And I only have to point to the Core Thief to provide evidence...

 

**Thief:**

* Melee class

* Single-target attacks

* Low health

* No damage mitigation

* Relatively low power

 

In other words, The Thief is a glass cannon. Except its cannon can only target one opponent at a time, and it deals relatively low damage compared to other professions. It also must be withing melee to deal its damage, yet it has no methods of mitigating damage other than avoiding it altogether, and it cannot avoid duration AoE.

 

It has all the defenses of 1-shot assassin.

Yet it has all the power of a bunker.

It has no range to avoid AoE.

It has no blocks/boons/immunes to survive melee.

It cannot duel.

It cannot team fight.

 

If the Thief builds for it, it can do two things well... hide and run away.

 

 

I understand the Thief was not designed to be a "ninja" or an "assassin." It was meant to be a Thief. Unfortunately, Anet forgot to turn everyone else into babies so the Thief can actually steal their candy... or to add a gametype where everyone went home to sleep for the night, leaving an empty shop full of goodies to swipe. You may as well rename the profession to "Poor Pickpocket."

[nicknamenick.2437]

Lol.. game was too slow.. anet nerfs some passive stuff.. and now the game is too fast.

 

Its always something.

 

 

I like this burstmeta allot more

[Swagg.9236]

The only way in which GW2 has changed at all since launch is its time to kill (TTK), and it has always operated under a meta which passively insulates any top build from risk while it attacks. From 2012 d/d ele to current builds, it has always been the same coddling, reactive and scripted gameplay.

[JTGuevara.9018]

It's called powercreep, OP. I've learned it's eventually what MMOs will default to for making money. Just dumb things down and sell people powerful goodies and get them to buy expansions. I agree with you OP, this game has waaaay too much dps and is absurdly fast, not in the good way. I've played this game since release and it wasn't like this, not even close. I watched old 2012 pvp streams, people used to auto-attack for about 1k. And lo and behold....like with HoT, we are repeating history AGAIN with PoF. Elite specs just do too....much...damage. I'm not going to sit there and let people tell me this burst meta is what this game needs. How the f is that skillful? Even glass cannon thief or ele didn't hit this hard at release. What we have now is appalling.

 

I'm _not_ even asking for this game to be "competitive" just....can we _not_ dumb it down any longer?

[Imperadordf.2687]

> @"Zionite.5924" said:

> > @"pah.4931" said:

> > > @"Zionite.5924" said:

> > > I'm back after a long break and I'm in decent gear I think and maybe averaged skilled at pvp. Full exotics. This game wasn't heavily gear based, but, kitten, I've been getting two shotted in PVP. It's the only thing in GW2 that I cannot stand. It just makes me irritated. And that new victory/losing screen? Talk about discouraging. I saw that and instantly thought, "well, that's enough pvp for me".

> > > Some of the changes to skills I like, but I can definitely agree with the OP.

> > > Fortunately, GW2 has so many enjoyable aspects outside of PVP so I mainly focus on that. I don't have as much time to play and practice as I used to so when I try to avoid PVP because I don't want the limited time I do have to be taken up by being steamrolled and the overall toxicity.

> > >

> > > I am more than happy being a PVE carebear because it allows me to enjoy the game and not rage quit.

> >

> > Gear doesn't matter in sPvP (though it does in WvW). Only thing that matters is your "build" (most stats come from your amulet, then some more from runes). The gear you're wearing when you go into a match (white, green, yellow, orange, pink) doesn't affect your stats. You may already know this, but just in case you don't I thought I'd throw this out there.

> >

> > You may need a different amulet / rune setup if you're getting blown up so quickly. You can go to the PvP lobby to set up different builds.

>

> I'm in full carrion gear so I don't know what the problem is.

 

Your gear doesn't matter in PvP. You need your Amulet/Runes/Sigils/Build where you can access from going to Heart of the Mists and clicking the Helm button on top of your screen.

 

 

(Just make sure you have your chest, leggings and headpiece equipped because they will affect your armor, doesn't matter if it's Carrion or Viper or something else. Just equip those 3)

[MyPuppy.8970]

I can't say players are used to it, we're more kinda resigned. But skills are starting to split from pve so it is going in a right direction. Problem is extensions were made with harder content and harder mobs, so elite specs had to make up for that, and thus creating the power creep we have now. What would have saved the game was a decisive skill split from the start, and two teams balancing each mode. At this point I'd say it's more a management and strategical issue; you can't have a great pvp stand alone product without the proper resources to consolidate a community. PvP was designed as a feature, not as a game on its own right. If it were we would have stuffs like build templates and PvP characters. I still like the PvP despite its fundamental flaws, but it could have been so much more awesome.

[Ferus.3165]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> > @"Ferus.3165" said:

> > solution: block all elite specs from pvp and revert all core classes back to pre HoT status (nerf rev accordingly and then allow core rev aswell)

> > ofc only in pvp (and maybe wvw)

>

> This is a really really bad idea, some core classes, namely those seen as “weak” after elite spec nerfs have been receiving buff upon buff upon buff to the point where the core specs aren’t very balanced in relation anymore. SD thief is a great example of this.

 

that is why i said "revert all core classes back to pre HoT status"

[Xillllix.3485]

> @"lordhelmos.7623" said:

> I took a 2 year break from the game, prior to leaving I did a lot of SPVP. I currently just WvW and PVE now.

>

> Going back into SPVP since Path of Fire, I noticed the damage was way way way too high. On a Spellbreaker warrior I can hit with offhand dagger 4 for over 9k damage on a target with an animation that is less than .5 seconds of casting (and offhand dagger I hear is even considered bad). I am seeing 4-7k auto attacks from holos and mesmer bursts over 15k damage with less than a quarter second of reaction time.

>

> The game has created an environment where it only takes one single mistake to die, even on the most defensive gear you can buy.

>

> I am not going to single out any specific classes, because honestly I'm seeing the same thing on every class. Extremely high damage, very little indication of a burst, and little to no time to react.

>

> I have seen unkillable soulbeasts burst for over 20k damage through stuns, holosmiths autoattack people to death in seconds with photo forges up, mesmers and thiefs autokill from stealth with insane surprise bursts, melting in seconds just standing next to scourges.... every class has some level of "make you explode BS."

>

> I don't think high damage on certain skills is an issue if the game had better visual indicators so that you can actually react. However core problems seem like:

>

> 1.) Everyone does way too much damage (both power and conditions)

> 2.) Particle effects are atrocious and make it almost impossible to tell what is going on -especially from scourges.

> 3.) Many instagib comboes from various classes have no wind ups or very weak visual indicators. This was always a problem but is exacerbated beyond belief in HoT.

> 4.) Many classes have procs that can deal huge amounts of damage while still granting invulnerability windows. Full counter is an example.

> 5.) Many classes have auto defensive procs, which lets the AI and timers play for you.

>

> This is extemely unhealthy for all games modes because:

>

> A.) Defensive gear options don't matter since they are not nearly enough to mitigate the crazy amounts of damage floating around.

> B.) Gameplay consists of loading your bar with 80% defensive skills and procs and rotating them hoping that an enemy makes a mistake first so that you can 0 to 100 him in less than a second. It was this way before I left in HoT, but its way way worse than it was before. Another common tactic is to use long range teleports to simply "be out of range" of the enemy's burst and try to bait their attacks into you while you teleport you so they fail due to range or obstruction issues.

> C.) There is no strategy and very little counterplay because your first mistake will usually kill you, there is no "coming back" from a burst because it will just flat out kill you.

> D.) Everyone pretty much has howitzers and paper armor, it wouldn't make a difference if everyone was just given a single shot longbow and 1hp because its the same gameplay experience. Classes are just different flavors of how to deliver the payload and there is extreme imbalance because everyone is lethal yet some classes have way better defensive CDs than others (e.g. mesmers who have almost triple the inventory of stealths, invuls, evades, stuns, dazes, and lockdown than some other classes).

> E.) For new players or people that don't understand classes, death is usually sudden with very bad indicators. To avoid death you have to simply know your enemies class and "predict" when they will spike you. There is no "reacting after the enemy uses their key skill" because the animations are so fast and the particle effects are so bad that you probably wont see it or will not be able to react in time. Mesmer again is the cultprit of this, as they can cover your screen with garbage and instakill you with no casting delay at the same time.

>

> I think the above is ultimately why Gw2 failed in competitive SPVP.

 

Yeah they fucked up the game. Anyway, GW 2 was a great game for the initial 2 years and it did give us thousands of hours of fun. Now there are other games out.

[Malediktus.9250]

> @"nicknamenick.2437" said:

> Lol.. game was too slow.. anet nerfs some passive stuff.. and now the game is too fast.

>

> Its always something.

>

>

> I like this burstmeta allot more

People always complained since HoT that the PvP became too fast and spammy

[PakSau.3709]

> @"Zionite.5924" said:

> I'm back after a long break and I'm in decent gear I think and maybe averaged skilled at pvp. Full exotics. This game wasn't heavily gear based, but, kitten, I've been getting two shotted in PVP.

 

I'm sure this won't quell your disdain for SPvP, just thought you should know. Gear is equalised in SPvP. As long as you have something in the shoulder, chest, leg slot(might be a diferent 3 but, in any case, just equip something in every slot) youll be on equal footing with everyone. The quick deaths you received were just over-tuned builds, not lack of gear.

[Ario.8964]

> @"lordhelmos.7623" said:

> I took a 2 year break from the game, prior to leaving I did a lot of SPVP. I currently just WvW and PVE now.

>

> Going back into SPVP since Path of Fire, I noticed the damage was way way way too high. On a Spellbreaker warrior I can hit with offhand dagger 4 for over 9k damage on a target with an animation that is less than .5 seconds of casting (and offhand dagger I hear is even considered bad). I am seeing 4-7k auto attacks from holos and mesmer bursts over 15k damage with less than a quarter second of reaction time.

>

> The game has created an environment where it only takes one single mistake to die, even on the most defensive gear you can buy.

>

> I am not going to single out any specific classes, because honestly I'm seeing the same thing on every class. Extremely high damage, very little indication of a burst, and little to no time to react.

>

> I have seen unkillable soulbeasts burst for over 20k damage through stuns, holosmiths autoattack people to death in seconds with photo forges up, mesmers and thiefs autokill from stealth with insane surprise bursts, melting in seconds just standing next to scourges.... every class has some level of "make you explode BS."

>

> I don't think high damage on certain skills is an issue if the game had better visual indicators so that you can actually react. However core problems seem like:

>

> 1.) Everyone does way too much damage (both power and conditions)

> 2.) Particle effects are atrocious and make it almost impossible to tell what is going on -especially from scourges.

> 3.) Many instagib comboes from various classes have no wind ups or very weak visual indicators. This was always a problem but is exacerbated beyond belief in HoT.

> 4.) Many classes have procs that can deal huge amounts of damage while still granting invulnerability windows. Full counter is an example.

> 5.) Many classes have auto defensive procs, which lets the AI and timers play for you.

>

> This is extemely unhealthy for all games modes because:

>

> A.) Defensive gear options don't matter since they are not nearly enough to mitigate the crazy amounts of damage floating around.

> B.) Gameplay consists of loading your bar with 80% defensive skills and procs and rotating them hoping that an enemy makes a mistake first so that you can 0 to 100 him in less than a second. It was this way before I left in HoT, but its way way worse than it was before. Another common tactic is to use long range teleports to simply "be out of range" of the enemy's burst and try to bait their attacks into you while you teleport you so they fail due to range or obstruction issues.

> C.) There is no strategy and very little counterplay because your first mistake will usually kill you, there is no "coming back" from a burst because it will just flat out kill you.

> D.) Everyone pretty much has howitzers and paper armor, it wouldn't make a difference if everyone was just given a single shot longbow and 1hp because its the same gameplay experience. Classes are just different flavors of how to deliver the payload and there is extreme imbalance because everyone is lethal yet some classes have way better defensive CDs than others (e.g. mesmers who have almost triple the inventory of stealths, invuls, evades, stuns, dazes, and lockdown than some other classes).

> E.) For new players or people that don't understand classes, death is usually sudden with very bad indicators. To avoid death you have to simply know your enemies class and "predict" when they will spike you. There is no "reacting after the enemy uses their key skill" because the animations are so fast and the particle effects are so bad that you probably wont see it or will not be able to react in time. Mesmer again is the cultprit of this, as they can cover your screen with garbage and instakill you with no casting delay at the same time.

>

> I think the above is ultimately why Gw2 failed in competitive SPVP.

 

I like the overall analysis. Well done, though there is some stuff I think you missed which needs to be pointed out:

 

- A good deal of the damage problems we have now stemmed from the removal of bunker amulets. Originally, damage was lower overall due to those amulets being in place but people wanted less bunker so what'd they do? Remove the amulets. Then the problem was nobody could survive so instead of reverting the decision they made earlier and then just tweaking numbers they instead just gave every class and build an absurd amount of base healing, defense, etc. Then they took bunker amulets to be immortal so we removed those amulets. Then damage was too high so they buffed defenses again. Now we are in an era where everyone has the potential to 100-0 wombo combo someone else but also can 1v3 and stall for long periods of time due to chainable defense that requires LITTLE TO NO INVESTMENT in defensive stats like toughness and healing power

 

- The game has also been suffering from overloaded skills. (For reference, I'm talking about skills that have too many functions built into them with low cd's) We have a plethora of skills that do too much and can be traited/enhanced in ways to do even more than they already do. Skills like full counter (I know this is a sensitive one, I'm not calling for a bunch of nerfs, just pointing out some design flaws and this is well known enough that people will know what skill I'm talking about) that can deny the next attack are fine (it's called active defense) but look at what else it does. It has an evade, stability, significant damage in aoe (significant meaning enough to actually make you want to avoid the damage enough to blow cd's on it) resistance, condi copy, provides personal sustain (adrenal health), dazes in aoe, is unblockable, and removes boons. Skills need fewer effects loaded onto them to help tone down the spam of AoE damage, cc, etc.

 

- AoE in this game is too prevalent and too powerful. AoE skills in this game often serve as both single target spike AND team cleaving skills. This should not be the case. A good approach would be to start by reducing the effectiveness of ALL aoe skills in the game (healing, damage, duration, etc.) by a very large number (50%+)

 

- Defenses need to be less accessible. This one seems counterproductive at first but when you think about it then it makes sense. When you have fewer defenses available to you, then being tanky will require you to take an amulet that provides those defensive stats. You won't be able to just go zerker or demolisher and tank 2 or 3 people at a time because you can perma chain dodge, invuln, block, etc. Removing a good deal of defenses will help to ensure that a reintroduction of bunker amulets to the game will not create another s1 bunker meta.

 

- Reliance on AI for certain classes (ranger's reliance on pet and mesmer's reliance on clones) is too high and ends up doing one of two things:

1) It allows people to build full bunker while their AI do all the damage for the player. This is bad design when you are trying to create an environment where skills is emphasized above all. There is very little skill in playing a build designed to be near immortal while the game kills people for you.

2) It creates absurdly powerful burst builds that maximise both the plaayer's and AI's damage into one or two gargantuan bursts designed to take down even the tankiest players in 1 or 2 seconds.

Both of those are bad things and can be eliminated by redesigning the AI functions in this game to be controlled by the player (give rangers more control over their pets and change how stat distribution works on pets/ redesign phantasms and clones AGAIN to be more reliant on the player controlling them or SIGNIFICANTLY reduce their damage and instead add some other function to them under the control of the player cause we all know how absurd bunker chrono is right now)

 

- Boons need to be toned down. We have all seen how many builds are running around that just seem to have every boon on permanently. That should not be the case, boons need to be less accessible to EVERYONE. There should never be a build that is capable of permanently maintaining every boon by itself in combat. The heavy presence of boons also helps to create these "jack of all trades, master of all" builds that can 1v1 at a very high level, teamfight at a very high level, help support the team, shit out tons of aoe, spam cc, and take 30 years to kill. Removing a lot of people's access to boons helps to address those because it no longer allows for glassy builds to survive artificially long amounts of time due to prot and regen uptime and it stops bunkers from bursting like marauder builds due to high might and fury uptime.

 

I ended up repeating some of what you said but this is my overall 2 cents on the subject

 

Edit: Forgot a huge one... ANIMATIONS!

Animations in this game are so unbelieveably massive for some skills they just remove any semblance of readability from fights (scourge red circles are a very good example of this as they will cover your entire screen and leave you sitting in a teamfight wondering wtf just happened) Other skills don't have animations that are noticeable enough to be counterplayed appropriately for how strong the skill is. This isn't necessarily a "redo every animation in the game" request but more of a "tidy up what you can and try to increase readability of larger fights"

[OriOri.8724]

> @"Razor.6392" said:

> > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > Now that passive defensive traits were nerfed in PvP, the next things that the balance team needs to tackle are roughly:

> >

> > * Reduce bonus damage from traits across the board

> > * Reduce stealth access across the board

> > * Reduce the amount of unblockable attacks across the board. Chief targets should be skills that make your next couple attacks unblockable. These should be extremely limited skills, and each one should have a very limited number of uses (think 2, 3 skills affected maximum). All traits that proc lesser versions of these skills should be removed. Ideally, 95% of the unblockable things in the game should just be non damaging: applying a condition, stripping/converting/stealing a boon.

> > * Reduce the amount of blocks in the game, but not too much. Will just be necessary after reducing the amount of unblockable kitten that exists

> > * Massive rebalancing of skills, making sure that skills aren't doing too much crap at once

>

> So basically redesign the entire game.

>

> At that point we might as well wait for gw3. Pvp is beyond help.

 

Umm no. The game itself is more than fine. Class design is the issue. And redoing the classes from the ground up does not mean you have to abandon the rest of the game. But even that is beside the point, since the only thing in my list that would require any major redesign would be large reductions in access to stealth. Everything else can be done without any major redesigns.

[Zionite.5924]

 

> Your gear doesn't matter in PvP. You need your Amulet/Runes/Sigils/Build where you can access from going to Heart of the Mists and clicking the Helm button on top of your screen.

>

>

> (Just make sure you have your chest, leggings and headpiece equipped because they will affect your armor, doesn't matter if it's Carrion or Viper or something else. Just equip those 3)

 

I can only change the accessories, sigils, and runes. Nothing else. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

 

 

[pah.4931]

> @"Zionite.5924" said:

>

> > Your gear doesn't matter in PvP. You need your Amulet/Runes/Sigils/Build where you can access from going to Heart of the Mists and clicking the Helm button on top of your screen.

> >

> >

> > (Just make sure you have your chest, leggings and headpiece equipped because they will affect your armor, doesn't matter if it's Carrion or Viper or something else. Just equip those 3)

>

> I can only change the accessories, sigils, and runes. Nothing else. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

>

>

 

That is how PvP works. The amulet gives you almost all your stats. The gear your wearing (other than some defense from not being naked). That is how you build for PvP. If you notice, the amulets give WAY more stats than they would in the open world.