This is great

[Ario.8964]

> @"cptaylor.2670" said:

> > @"Rufo.3716" said:

> > This whole argument sounds like the age old, I'm rock, nerf paper, scissors is fine.

>

>

> Everyone is complaining about mesmers lately but I think that’s because people just don’t know how to fight them. I’ve only seen maybe two chrono builds that were ridiculous and one was purely bunker.

>

 

That's part of the problem though. When you have a bunker build that can tank 3 players at once (No, this is not an exaggeration. I did this in my first match on chrono and won without actually having to know what to do and I did it multiple times in that match so no, it's not a fluke) and also spam incredibly strong burst damage, cc, and perma almost every boon in the game it is a very VERY big balance problem. My knowledge of how to fight mesmer has been refined from years of dealing with all kinds of builds but this build has no weaknesses in 1v1. It will not lose without taking an incredibly long time to do during which the mesmer will hold the point and you will be wasting time.

 

It is also a problem when builds can 1 shot people (power mirage) and still have insane access to invulns, stunbreaks, mobility (mobility that even outclasses thief in some scenarios), boons, etc.

 

Can they be beaten? Yes. Is it practical and does it require reasonable strategies to beat? Absolutely not, it requires an obscene level of outplaying (respective to the lack of skill required of the mesmer). I'm all for mesmer being a challenging fight, but a realistically impossible one (given the constraints of a match) is absurd and anyone defending that has zero concept of balance.

[Kageseigi.2150]

> @"Ario.8964" said:

> Can they be beaten? Yes. Is it practical and does it require reasonable strategies to beat? Absolutely not, it requires an obscene level of outplaying (respective to the lack of skill required of the mesmer). I'm all for mesmer being a challenging fight, but a realistically impossible one (given the constraints of a match) is absurd and anyone defending that has zero concept of balance.

 

It reminds me of the whole concept of Lord Kitah in the mission Estate of Decay. Basically, Mesmers are not to be trifled with. Fortunately, he is a PvE only build! :-D

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"cptaylor.2670" said:

> > @"Rufo.3716" said:

> > This whole argument sounds like the age old, I'm rock, nerf paper, scissors is fine.

>

>

> Everyone is complaining about mesmers lately but I think that’s because people just don’t know how to fight them. I’ve only seen maybe two chrono builds that were ridiculous and one was purely bunker.

 

No, that's not the only reason. There's multiple reasons:

 

1. The illusion spam is nuts. It was hard to keep track of a mesmer before the phantasm rework, now it's like trying to solve a rubik's cube while you're tumbling in freefall. There needs to be a cap and queue, as some have suggested. There are even threads about how multiple illusion spammers can cause culling on low-end machines, which shouldn't be happening in sPvP.

2. Certain shatter builds are capable of one-shotting individuals (even tanky ones) in under a second from stealth if set up properly and used well. Granted, these builds are glassy and require a good amount of skill to coordinate, but even thief isn't capable of that kind of burst (DJ doesn't count in sPvP, near impossible to land), and they're supposed to be the bursty class.

3. Certain chrono builds are capable of incredible tankiness while still outputting the damage and CC of a holo.

4. And most mirage builds run several teleports, enough to disengage quickly from most fights despite the aforementioned nuking potential. They are potentially better at being thieves than thieves, and bear less risk.

[ToPNoP.2493]

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> 

> Considering only 2 out of the 4 attacks from the Avenger landed a critical hit on me. The defensive **BLOCKING ABILITY** "only" hit me for a whopping 19321 damage.

> This would be somewhat okay if this wasn't a defensive ability. If it didnt couple 19k damage with a 3 second block.

>

> If they all would've crit the damage would output would've been increased to 26876. In 1 skill, which is once again. **A BLOCK**

>

> @Arenanet still waiting for an update.

>

> Edit: I used my dodges to dodge the Defenders / Disenchanters so don't bother coming with kitten like "just dodge". Because in reality, you should not have to dodge a block.

 

I have recently been defeated by simply hitting Mesmer.

[Odik.4587]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"cptaylor.2670" said:

> > > @"Rufo.3716" said:

> > > This whole argument sounds like the age old, I'm rock, nerf paper, scissors is fine.

> >

> >

> > Everyone is complaining about mesmers lately but I think that’s because people just don’t know how to fight them. I’ve only seen maybe two chrono builds that were ridiculous and one was purely bunker.

>

> No, that's not the only reason. There's multiple reasons:

>

> 1. The illusion spam is nuts. It was hard to keep track of a mesmer before the phantasm rework, now it's like trying to solve a rubik's cube while you're tumbling in freefall. There needs to be a cap and queue, as some have suggested. There are even threads about how multiple illusion spammers can cause culling on low-end machines, which shouldn't be happening in sPvP.

> 2. Certain shatter builds are capable of one-shotting individuals (even tanky ones) in under a second from stealth if set up properly and used well. Granted, these builds are glassy and require a good amount of skill to coordinate, but even thief isn't capable of that kind of burst (DJ doesn't count in sPvP, near impossible to land), and they're supposed to be the bursty class.

> 3. Certain chrono builds are capable of incredible tankiness while still outputting the damage and CC of a holo.

> 4. And most mirage builds run several teleports, enough to disengage quickly from most fights despite the aforementioned nuking potential. They are potentially better at being thieves than thieves, and bear less risk.

 

1. only chrono cuz of phantasms i guess? Rework chronophantasma to not resummon phantasms. Had problems to find real mesmer before rework ? L2p or rather differ clones/player , may be you should invest some time to play it yourself?

2. still complaining about nerfed gs,they are farming your poor holo?(potato will always die regardless of being tanky or not) On EU was thief with a name Der Assasin ,once on coliseum iv got killed from full health just from steal+bound+backstab while I was necro(deadshot amulet) on some of AT's ,fun times .

3. see number1 (holo capable to reduce incoming damage to 0 and still do his damage.)

4. several teleports its blink and jaunt that we still use offensively and not always have 3/3 off cd?

[Math.5123]

> @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > @"Julius Seizure.4985" said:

> > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > @"Julius Seizure.4985" said:

> > > > I have no doubt that this is with a Paladin’s amulet as well. This build is doing more damage with 2 defensive trait lines and Paladin amulet than other builds with 2 offensive traitlines and Maurader.

> > >

> > > Of course.. . Marauder ferocity is less effective on a condi boon build that strips boons such as this one. Paladin toughness & vitality is much better trade off. But keep in mind, Paladin is not the only amulet that works well on this build. killing it is easy!!! Need some play skill's tho.

> >

> > Condi Boon Build? That does 13k power damage burst on a heavy? With 2 defensive traitlines and all defensive traits selected? Working as intended.

>

> If you stick around & expect your boons to carry you.

 

I can't be the only one seeing the irony in this, surely? This build not only has more boons than firebrand and more boonhate than scourge. It has the cc of a holo and burst of a core guardian.

 

Edit; All while running a defensive vit / toughness amulet.

[will de grijze jager.6594]

 

> Mesmer vs mesmer is Not what i meant.. I meant i've learned skill's on my main witch is mesmer. But i counter mesmers with any classe's because i've got good skill's & i manage all my defenses & offenses as good as my main. It's just skill play. Problem is lots of classe's in Gw2 did not need to rely on skill play cuz of ridiculous passives or 1 button jokes with one trick pony combo's. Making it lazy players who call them selves pros. If you played mesmer in the last 5 years you'l notice that that class relies on over extending skill play to actually win fights.

 

Mate even top 10 players in pvp are saying that mesmer are broken and it is not a l2p issue and what you are saying is it is get from you high horse and accept that the class is broken.

[Imperadordf.2687]

> @"Airdive.2613" said:

> Playing core guardian, can't you burst the mesmer to make him retreat even before you start taking damage?

 

Fun fact : Mesmers have dodges.

[will de grijze jager.6594]

It is funny that you can spot the mesmers main in 1 second. It is a l2p issue. I can beat a other mesmer(says the mesmer XD). It is totally balanced hitting 13k on a tanky amulet. If you see 1 of those commands you know they are maining ez mode mesmer. For everyone that says mesmer is not broken has a stick in there behind. Even top mesmer players say that mesmer damage and sustain is not normaal. If the mesmer could only have or damage or sustain would be fine. No they have both. See me i'm a mesmer and i can out damage a thief and out sustain a warrior at the same time.

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Vieux P.1238" said:

>I mean the necro minion rat clutter is far more dangerous in terms of damage vs clones & illusions that pops easy like balloons. & minions clutter as much and more then mesmers.

The necro meat-train doesn't even deserve the name "pvp build".

 

 

 

[Xca.9721]

Dont forget the stunbreak and condi cleanse on dodge, stomping while dodging etc..

[zoopop.5630]

> @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > > > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > > > > > > Mesmer prolly running on the disenchanter meta.. But what was the defender running on? I mean he got hit with 19321 damage. You can't be hit by 19321 damage unless your running some kind of glassy build.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I was on Valkyrie Hammer Guardian.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > That's the crit condition build, right? https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Guardian_-_Radiant_Hammer

> > > > > > > you do know your counter is boon removal builds?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Which is why I'm dodging the Disenchanters in order to keep prot / retal / fury / might up ;)

> > > > >

> > > > > Well if you keep at it, you'l build up your skill well anoth to actually well time everything like i do. I main a mesmer & mesmers for me is not a problem cuz i learned the hard way how to manage & time my dodges & defenses as well as my offenses. It's called skill playing. I bet in a couple of weeks you'l get to that level as well.

> > > >

> > > > 

> > > > Yes. One day, I may improve.

> > >

> > > & your complaining?

> >

> > Me being good at the game has nothing to do with Chronomancers being overpowered.

>

> Yes it does. You want to nerf Chrono becuz what? becuz it counters your build. You need to tweak your build instead of asking for a nerf. Cuz Chrono is way not overpowered. Your problem is you can't deal with a Boon removal build. Weird, i can with your build despite it counters my guardian as much as you. You just want it easy instead of looking for some special tweak that will help you out. I'm sorry i can't follow your reasoning & not going to agree with you cuz your build can't deal with it.

 

> @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > > > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > > > > > > Mesmer prolly running on the disenchanter meta.. But what was the defender running on? I mean he got hit with 19321 damage. You can't be hit by 19321 damage unless your running some kind of glassy build.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I was on Valkyrie Hammer Guardian.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > That's the crit condition build, right? https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Guardian_-_Radiant_Hammer

> > > > > > > you do know your counter is boon removal builds?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Which is why I'm dodging the Disenchanters in order to keep prot / retal / fury / might up ;)

> > > > >

> > > > > Well if you keep at it, you'l build up your skill well anoth to actually well time everything like i do. I main a mesmer & mesmers for me is not a problem cuz i learned the hard way how to manage & time my dodges & defenses as well as my offenses. It's called skill playing. I bet in a couple of weeks you'l get to that level as well.

> > > >

> > > > 

> > > > Yes. One day, I may improve.

> > >

> > > & your complaining?

> >

> > Me being good at the game has nothing to do with Chronomancers being overpowered.

>

> Yes it does. You want to nerf Chrono becuz what? becuz it counters your build. You need to tweak your build instead of asking for a nerf. Cuz Chrono is way not overpowered. Your problem is you can't deal with a Boon removal build. Weird, i can with your build despite it counters my guardian as much as you. You just want it easy instead of looking for some special tweak that will help you out. I'm sorry i can't follow your reasoning & not going to agree with you cuz your build can't deal with it.

 

Wow , just wow! Please kindly stop talking and stop defending the most absurbed broken bunker class in the game that can not lose 1vs1 at all unless played horribly wrong. Chrono is beyond broken for multiple reasons so just stop , tweaking his build isn’t going to stop him from not getting clapped in a 1vs1 at node at far or home. Mesmer overall are in a state beyond op at this point but bunker Chrono has taken its role as the best Mesmer class atm.

[ScottBroChill.3254]

PSA: If you beat a mesmer as a non-mesmer, it is most likely due to player skill disparity and not because mesmer is balanced. I've beat foxes as ness in super smash bros, doesn't mean that fox and ness are equally balanced or in the same tier.

[FyzE.3472]

> @"ScottBroChill.3254" said:

> PSA: If you beat a mesmer as a non-mesmer, it is most likely due to player skill disparity and not because mesmer is balanced. I've beat foxes as ness in super smash bros, doesn't mean that fox and ness are equally balanced or in the same tier.

 

But... but the only real and valid point of view is my own!

[Airdive.2613]

> @"Imperadordf.2687" said:

> > @"Airdive.2613" said:

> > Playing core guardian, can't you burst the mesmer to make him retreat even before you start taking damage?

>

> Fun fact : Mesmers have dodges.

 

Everyone does.

[Imperadordf.2687]

> @"Airdive.2613" said:

> > @"Imperadordf.2687" said:

> > > @"Airdive.2613" said:

> > > Playing core guardian, can't you burst the mesmer to make him retreat even before you start taking damage?

> >

> > Fun fact : Mesmers have dodges.

>

> Everyone does.

 

So? You said "Burst the Mesmer" and I said Mesmers have dodges to dodge the burst of the guardian.

[JayAction.9056]

> @"ScottBroChill.3254" said:

> PSA: If you beat a mesmer as a non-mesmer, it is most likely due to player skill disparity and not because mesmer is balanced. I've beat foxes as ness in super smash bros, doesn't mean that fox and ness are equally balanced or in the same tier.

 

Look at captain obvious here.

 

[FyzE.3472]

> @"JayAction.9056" said:

> > @"ScottBroChill.3254" said:

> > PSA: If you beat a mesmer as a non-mesmer, it is most likely due to player skill disparity and not because mesmer is balanced. I've beat foxes as ness in super smash bros, doesn't mean that fox and ness are equally balanced or in the same tier.

>

> Look at captain obvious here.

>

 

You'd be surprised...

[Uncle Dalty.8327]

> @"Shaogin.2679" said:

> So this comes from the "Disenchanter" Chronomancer build. A build that uses the Paladin amulet. A build described on MetaBattle as "A tanky PvP chronomancer build primarily made to 1v1." But this tanky build is doing stuff such as this:

> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > 

> > Considering only 2 out of the 4 attacks from the Avenger landed a critical hit on me. The defensive **BLOCKING ABILITY** "only" hit me for a whopping 19321 damage.

> > This would be somewhat okay if this wasn't a defensive ability. If it didnt couple 19k damage with a 3 second block.

> >

> > If they all would've crit the damage would output would've been increased to 26876. In 1 skill, which is once again. **A BLOCK**

> >

> > @Arenanet still waiting for an update.

> >

> > Edit: I used my dodges to dodge the Defenders / Disenchanters so don't bother coming with kitten like "just dodge". Because in reality, you should not have to dodge a block.

>

> And then of course Mesmer mains be like:

> > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > You want to nerf Chrono becuz what? becuz it counters your build. You need to tweak your build instead of asking for a nerf. Cuz Chrono is way not overpowered. Your problem is you can't deal with a Boon removal build. Weird, i can with your build despite it counters my guardian as much as you. You just want it easy instead of looking for some special tweak that will help you out. I'm sorry i can't follow your reasoning & not going to agree with you cuz your build can't deal with it.

>

> Now as a Power Reaper I don't have issues with these Chronomancers since I have unblockable AoE damage and enough pressure and cc to take down a bunker solo, but see I pay for that damage by being super squishy. It is never cool to put out high damage AND be tanky. Didn't we nerf Scrapper several times for stuff like this? And trying to deny a problem exists despite it being blatantly obvious in the community and insulting people that are simply discussing an issue is a horrible way to convince anyone that you are anything more than a biased Mesmer main just desperately trying to avoid nerfs.

 

I don't think it's the mesmer MAINS who are saying that mes isn't broken.... it's the bandwagon riders. Any mesmer mains are proposing detailed(ish) solutions on how to tone down mes without gutting the class completely.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Uncle Dalty.8327" said:

> > @"Shaogin.2679" said:

> > So this comes from the "Disenchanter" Chronomancer build. A build that uses the Paladin amulet. A build described on MetaBattle as "A tanky PvP chronomancer build primarily made to 1v1." But this tanky build is doing stuff such as this:

> > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > 

> > > Considering only 2 out of the 4 attacks from the Avenger landed a critical hit on me. The defensive **BLOCKING ABILITY** "only" hit me for a whopping 19321 damage.

> > > This would be somewhat okay if this wasn't a defensive ability. If it didnt couple 19k damage with a 3 second block.

> > >

> > > If they all would've crit the damage would output would've been increased to 26876. In 1 skill, which is once again. **A BLOCK**

> > >

> > > @Arenanet still waiting for an update.

> > >

> > > Edit: I used my dodges to dodge the Defenders / Disenchanters so don't bother coming with kitten like "just dodge". Because in reality, you should not have to dodge a block.

> >

> > And then of course Mesmer mains be like:

> > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > You want to nerf Chrono becuz what? becuz it counters your build. You need to tweak your build instead of asking for a nerf. Cuz Chrono is way not overpowered. Your problem is you can't deal with a Boon removal build. Weird, i can with your build despite it counters my guardian as much as you. You just want it easy instead of looking for some special tweak that will help you out. I'm sorry i can't follow your reasoning & not going to agree with you cuz your build can't deal with it.

> >

> > Now as a Power Reaper I don't have issues with these Chronomancers since I have unblockable AoE damage and enough pressure and cc to take down a bunker solo, but see I pay for that damage by being super squishy. It is never cool to put out high damage AND be tanky. Didn't we nerf Scrapper several times for stuff like this? And trying to deny a problem exists despite it being blatantly obvious in the community and insulting people that are simply discussing an issue is a horrible way to convince anyone that you are anything more than a biased Mesmer main just desperately trying to avoid nerfs.

>

> I don't think it's the mesmer MAINS who are saying that mes isn't broken.... it's the bandwagon riders. Any mesmer mains are proposing detailed(ish) solutions on how to tone down mes without gutting the class completely.

 

The PvE side complicates things as well. ANet has already made some very contentious changes (confusion nerf) that have completely ruined a few key skills in PvE (most notably Cry of Frustration) and even required an emergency fix to axe, all in the name of fixing mesmer in PvP. Many of the suggestions for fixing mesmer in PvP would once again have a severe impact on the PvE side. This goes beyond simply adjusting damage numbers. The fundamentals of the class and the entire playstyle are potentially at stake.

 

I don't PvP much, so I don't feel qualified to comment on how we should fix this. But whatever they do, ANet needs to do a better job of separating PvE and PvP. The confusion nerf was and is an unacceptable and broken "fix". There is too much conflict between these game modes. What works for one does not necessarily work for the other. The idea that you can maintain perfect continuity across disparate game modes while maintaining balance is a fantasy.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > @"Uncle Dalty.8327" said:

> > > @"Shaogin.2679" said:

> > > So this comes from the "Disenchanter" Chronomancer build. A build that uses the Paladin amulet. A build described on MetaBattle as "A tanky PvP chronomancer build primarily made to 1v1." But this tanky build is doing stuff such as this:

> > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > 

> > > > Considering only 2 out of the 4 attacks from the Avenger landed a critical hit on me. The defensive **BLOCKING ABILITY** "only" hit me for a whopping 19321 damage.

> > > > This would be somewhat okay if this wasn't a defensive ability. If it didnt couple 19k damage with a 3 second block.

> > > >

> > > > If they all would've crit the damage would output would've been increased to 26876. In 1 skill, which is once again. **A BLOCK**

> > > >

> > > > @Arenanet still waiting for an update.

> > > >

> > > > Edit: I used my dodges to dodge the Defenders / Disenchanters so don't bother coming with kitten like "just dodge". Because in reality, you should not have to dodge a block.

> > >

> > > And then of course Mesmer mains be like:

> > > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > You want to nerf Chrono becuz what? becuz it counters your build. You need to tweak your build instead of asking for a nerf. Cuz Chrono is way not overpowered. Your problem is you can't deal with a Boon removal build. Weird, i can with your build despite it counters my guardian as much as you. You just want it easy instead of looking for some special tweak that will help you out. I'm sorry i can't follow your reasoning & not going to agree with you cuz your build can't deal with it.

> > >

> > > Now as a Power Reaper I don't have issues with these Chronomancers since I have unblockable AoE damage and enough pressure and cc to take down a bunker solo, but see I pay for that damage by being super squishy. It is never cool to put out high damage AND be tanky. Didn't we nerf Scrapper several times for stuff like this? And trying to deny a problem exists despite it being blatantly obvious in the community and insulting people that are simply discussing an issue is a horrible way to convince anyone that you are anything more than a biased Mesmer main just desperately trying to avoid nerfs.

> >

> > I don't think it's the mesmer MAINS who are saying that mes isn't broken.... it's the bandwagon riders. Any mesmer mains are proposing detailed(ish) solutions on how to tone down mes without gutting the class completely.

>

> The PvE side complicates things as well. ANet has already made some very contentious changes (confusion nerf) that have completely ruined a few key skills in PvE (most notably Cry of Frustration) and even required an emergency fix to axe, all in the name of fixing mesmer in PvP. Many of the suggestions for fixing mesmer in PvP would once again have a severe impact on the PvE side. This goes beyond simply adjusting damage numbers. The fundamentals of the class and the entire playstyle are potentially at stake.

>

> I don't PvP much, so I don't feel qualified to comment on how we should fix this. But whatever they do, ANet needs to do a better job of separating PvE and PvP. The confusion nerf was and is an unacceptable and broken "fix". There is too much conflict between these game modes. What works for one does not necessarily work for the other. The idea that you can maintain perfect continuity across disparate game modes while maintaining balance is a fantasy.

 

The two builds that matter most in PvE are Boonshare Chronomancer and Condition DPS Mirage. Neither of which will be effected with the removal of Chronophantasma and Signet of the Ether.

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > > @"Uncle Dalty.8327" said:

> > > > @"Shaogin.2679" said:

> > > > So this comes from the "Disenchanter" Chronomancer build. A build that uses the Paladin amulet. A build described on MetaBattle as "A tanky PvP chronomancer build primarily made to 1v1." But this tanky build is doing stuff such as this:

> > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > > 

> > > > > Considering only 2 out of the 4 attacks from the Avenger landed a critical hit on me. The defensive **BLOCKING ABILITY** "only" hit me for a whopping 19321 damage.

> > > > > This would be somewhat okay if this wasn't a defensive ability. If it didnt couple 19k damage with a 3 second block.

> > > > >

> > > > > If they all would've crit the damage would output would've been increased to 26876. In 1 skill, which is once again. **A BLOCK**

> > > > >

> > > > > @Arenanet still waiting for an update.

> > > > >

> > > > > Edit: I used my dodges to dodge the Defenders / Disenchanters so don't bother coming with kitten like "just dodge". Because in reality, you should not have to dodge a block.

> > > >

> > > > And then of course Mesmer mains be like:

> > > > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > > You want to nerf Chrono becuz what? becuz it counters your build. You need to tweak your build instead of asking for a nerf. Cuz Chrono is way not overpowered. Your problem is you can't deal with a Boon removal build. Weird, i can with your build despite it counters my guardian as much as you. You just want it easy instead of looking for some special tweak that will help you out. I'm sorry i can't follow your reasoning & not going to agree with you cuz your build can't deal with it.

> > > >

> > > > Now as a Power Reaper I don't have issues with these Chronomancers since I have unblockable AoE damage and enough pressure and cc to take down a bunker solo, but see I pay for that damage by being super squishy. It is never cool to put out high damage AND be tanky. Didn't we nerf Scrapper several times for stuff like this? And trying to deny a problem exists despite it being blatantly obvious in the community and insulting people that are simply discussing an issue is a horrible way to convince anyone that you are anything more than a biased Mesmer main just desperately trying to avoid nerfs.

> > >

> > > I don't think it's the mesmer MAINS who are saying that mes isn't broken.... it's the bandwagon riders. Any mesmer mains are proposing detailed(ish) solutions on how to tone down mes without gutting the class completely.

> >

> > The PvE side complicates things as well. ANet has already made some very contentious changes (confusion nerf) that have completely ruined a few key skills in PvE (most notably Cry of Frustration) and even required an emergency fix to axe, all in the name of fixing mesmer in PvP. Many of the suggestions for fixing mesmer in PvP would once again have a severe impact on the PvE side. This goes beyond simply adjusting damage numbers. The fundamentals of the class and the entire playstyle are potentially at stake.

> >

> > I don't PvP much, so I don't feel qualified to comment on how we should fix this. But whatever they do, ANet needs to do a better job of separating PvE and PvP. The confusion nerf was and is an unacceptable and broken "fix". There is too much conflict between these game modes. What works for one does not necessarily work for the other. The idea that you can maintain perfect continuity across disparate game modes while maintaining balance is a fantasy.

>

> The two builds that matter most in PvE are Boonshare Chronomancer and Condition DPS Mirage. Neither of which will be effected with the removal of Chronophantasma and Signet of the Ether.

>

 

Like I said, I don't know enough about PvP to comment on the merits of any proposals. But I'm glad to hear some of you think there are solutions that wouldn't mess with the PvE game too badly. I don't know if my love for GW2 can withstand another hit like the confusion debacle!

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > > > @"Uncle Dalty.8327" said:

> > > > > @"Shaogin.2679" said:

> > > > > So this comes from the "Disenchanter" Chronomancer build. A build that uses the Paladin amulet. A build described on MetaBattle as "A tanky PvP chronomancer build primarily made to 1v1." But this tanky build is doing stuff such as this:

> > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > > > 

> > > > > > Considering only 2 out of the 4 attacks from the Avenger landed a critical hit on me. The defensive **BLOCKING ABILITY** "only" hit me for a whopping 19321 damage.

> > > > > > This would be somewhat okay if this wasn't a defensive ability. If it didnt couple 19k damage with a 3 second block.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If they all would've crit the damage would output would've been increased to 26876. In 1 skill, which is once again. **A BLOCK**

> > > > > >

> > > > > > @Arenanet still waiting for an update.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Edit: I used my dodges to dodge the Defenders / Disenchanters so don't bother coming with kitten like "just dodge". Because in reality, you should not have to dodge a block.

> > > > >

> > > > > And then of course Mesmer mains be like:

> > > > > > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > > > > > You want to nerf Chrono becuz what? becuz it counters your build. You need to tweak your build instead of asking for a nerf. Cuz Chrono is way not overpowered. Your problem is you can't deal with a Boon removal build. Weird, i can with your build despite it counters my guardian as much as you. You just want it easy instead of looking for some special tweak that will help you out. I'm sorry i can't follow your reasoning & not going to agree with you cuz your build can't deal with it.

> > > > >

> > > > > Now as a Power Reaper I don't have issues with these Chronomancers since I have unblockable AoE damage and enough pressure and cc to take down a bunker solo, but see I pay for that damage by being super squishy. It is never cool to put out high damage AND be tanky. Didn't we nerf Scrapper several times for stuff like this? And trying to deny a problem exists despite it being blatantly obvious in the community and insulting people that are simply discussing an issue is a horrible way to convince anyone that you are anything more than a biased Mesmer main just desperately trying to avoid nerfs.

> > > >

> > > > I don't think it's the mesmer MAINS who are saying that mes isn't broken.... it's the bandwagon riders. Any mesmer mains are proposing detailed(ish) solutions on how to tone down mes without gutting the class completely.

> > >

> > > The PvE side complicates things as well. ANet has already made some very contentious changes (confusion nerf) that have completely ruined a few key skills in PvE (most notably Cry of Frustration) and even required an emergency fix to axe, all in the name of fixing mesmer in PvP. Many of the suggestions for fixing mesmer in PvP would once again have a severe impact on the PvE side. This goes beyond simply adjusting damage numbers. The fundamentals of the class and the entire playstyle are potentially at stake.

> > >

> > > I don't PvP much, so I don't feel qualified to comment on how we should fix this. But whatever they do, ANet needs to do a better job of separating PvE and PvP. The confusion nerf was and is an unacceptable and broken "fix". There is too much conflict between these game modes. What works for one does not necessarily work for the other. The idea that you can maintain perfect continuity across disparate game modes while maintaining balance is a fantasy.

> >

> > The two builds that matter most in PvE are Boonshare Chronomancer and Condition DPS Mirage. Neither of which will be effected with the removal of Chronophantasma and Signet of the Ether.

> >

>

> Like I said, I don't know enough about PvP to comment on the merits of any proposals. But I'm glad to hear some of you think there are solutions that wouldn't mess with the PvE game too badly. I don't know if my love for GW2 can withstand another hit like the confusion debacle!

 

Yeah. You could straight up delete Chronophantasma from the game and Mesmer would still be the most desired class in group content with a mandatory support spec and a top tier DPS spec.

[Airdive.2613]

> @"Imperadordf.2687" said:

> > @"Airdive.2613" said:

> > > @"Imperadordf.2687" said:

> > > > @"Airdive.2613" said:

> > > > Playing core guardian, can't you burst the mesmer to make him retreat even before you start taking damage?

> > >

> > > Fun fact : Mesmers have dodges.

> >

> > Everyone does.

>

> So? You said "Burst the Mesmer" and I said Mesmers have dodges to dodge the burst of the guardian.

 

So? You, too, have dodges to dodge the burst of the mesmer. It's all about timing.

[ScottBroChill.3254]

> @"JayAction.9056" said:

> > @"ScottBroChill.3254" said:

> > PSA: If you beat a mesmer as a non-mesmer, it is most likely due to player skill disparity and not because mesmer is balanced. I've beat foxes as ness in super smash bros, doesn't mean that fox and ness are equally balanced or in the same tier.

>

> Look at captain obvious here.

>

 

what up, mane. still see people arguing that mesmer is fine because they happened to beat one in silver rank, so thought I would provide an analogy to help some people with basic concepts.