Don’t you want legendary armor outside of raids?

[Tenrai Senshi.2017]

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > Again with you people telling raiders how we think. Tsk tsk tsk. As I said - as a raider with full Legendary armour for my main, and more than enough LI to make another if I do wish it - I don’t want to exclude people from Raids. Far from it. I find the current catch 22 with having to need LI to be able to get your first LI to be a serious problem and Anet should step in and make getting started with Raiding to be less stupid - anyone who has the drive and desire to Raid should be allowed to relatively easy at least get to try it out.

> > >

> > > I don’t want to _exclude players from Raids_ but I’m very adamant in keeping the Envoy Legendary armour _exclusive to Raids_.

> > >

> > > See how that is quite different from what you’re trying to tell me I believe?

> > Not really, since what we're talking about is not an Envoy armor, but an access to a legendary armor (preferably with its own unique skin) outside of raids.

>

> The OP specifically mentions the envoy skin.

 

Actually, the OP said "the same set as raids or (preferably) a second one". Note the part "or (preferably) a second one." You seem to be only focusing on the first part.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Tenrai Senshi.2017" said:

> > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > > Again with you people telling raiders how we think. Tsk tsk tsk. As I said - as a raider with full Legendary armour for my main, and more than enough LI to make another if I do wish it - I don’t want to exclude people from Raids. Far from it. I find the current catch 22 with having to need LI to be able to get your first LI to be a serious problem and Anet should step in and make getting started with Raiding to be less stupid - anyone who has the drive and desire to Raid should be allowed to relatively easy at least get to try it out.

> > > >

> > > > I don’t want to _exclude players from Raids_ but I’m very adamant in keeping the Envoy Legendary armour _exclusive to Raids_.

> > > >

> > > > See how that is quite different from what you’re trying to tell me I believe?

> > > Not really, since what we're talking about is not an Envoy armor, but an access to a legendary armor (preferably with its own unique skin) outside of raids.

> >

> > The OP specifically mentions the envoy skin.

>

> Actually, the OP said "the same set as raids or (preferably) a second one". Note the part "or (preferably) a second one." You seem to be only focusing on the first part.

He's already aware of this, as he did specifically speak against a second, non-raid PvE armor set in this thread already. He's just intentionally ignoring that part now to make his arguments seem stronger.

 

[Feanor.2358]

"Don't you want zero taxes?"

 

"Yes I absolutely want this"

"No I actively am against this"

...

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Fenom.9457" said:

> When I refer to armor outside of raids I mean skins - the same set as raids or (preferably) a second one. Something that takes enough time and effort to earn to be as prestigious as ever, but accessible to people who can’t get past the raiding elitism for whatever reason. I’m thinking something that anyone can work on, but requires a long amount of time, involved each game mode a little bit - mostly PVE id image? Idk, that’s definitely something to discuss. Yes there are legendary sets in competitive game modes, but the skins are the same as ascended, you don’t get the prestige, nor such quite the feeling of accomplishment unlocking a truly legendary skin.

>

> TLDR; legendary armor with actual legendary skins obtainable outside raids

 

Prestige brings elitism and all the special snowflake attitude, if you want the skin...deal with it but if you only need the utility then play pvp/wvw and avoid all elitism crap, why else would you care about the skin if not for the prestige?

[Tenrai Senshi.2017]

> @"Jojo.6140" said:

> Sure, and while they are at it they might just aswell make fractal weapons available outside of fractals, WvW backpack skin outside of WvW, Llama minis outside of PvP, Teq weapons and Wurm armor outside of pve etc.

> Watering down everything to be available everywhere would certainly be a great change that would make the game so much more interesting /s

 

What a lot of people want is not specifically the skins to become available in other game modes, but just legendary tier armor to be available in other game modes. There's a difference between locking unique skins behind a specific game mode, and locking an entire tier of gear behind said game modes.

 

In my case, I'd agree to legendary armor being available outside of Raids (and in a way it already is), so long as the skins are different. This is partly so that the raid armor still remains unique to that content so as to not invalidate the efforts raiders have put into acquiring it, but also partly because I really don't like the raid skins and wouldn't at all mind seeing new variants. XD

[Tenrai Senshi.2017]

Accidental double post.

 

[FrizzFreston.5290]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> "Don't you want zero taxes?"

>

> "Yes I absolutely want this"

> "No I actively am against this"

> ...

 

More like,

 

"Dont you want X?"

 

"Yes, I do want X"

"No, I dont want X"

"Yes, I dont want X"

"No, I do want X"

 

It might be personal, but I always have a problem with these negative questions.

[Zalavaaris.5329]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > Let’s be real here: “Open world PvE Legendary” is really just a code word for “gold sink”. One can easily buy 99% mats needed for a “open world PvE” legendary weapon with a Credit Card.

> >

> > The value of Legendary Armour, be it PvE or PvP, is that unlike the weapons you cannot Pay2Win it. You have to earn it.

>

> Only this is not true. If it were, raid selling would not be a thing.

> There are plenty of people credit card farming to pay for carries in raids.

>

> While I agree with a lot of what you wrote, Arenanet's stance that raid selling is fine invalidates this point completely.

> You can certainly p2w legendary armor in pve.

>

 

If you can afford the thousands and thousands of dollars to drop on a video game then you are legendary in your own right and have earned it lol

[Oglaf.1074]

> @"Zalavaaris.5329" said:

> > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > Let’s be real here: “Open world PvE Legendary” is really just a code word for “gold sink”. One can easily buy 99% mats needed for a “open world PvE” legendary weapon with a Credit Card.

> > >

> > > The value of Legendary Armour, be it PvE or PvP, is that unlike the weapons you cannot Pay2Win it. You have to earn it.

> >

> > Only this is not true. If it were, raid selling would not be a thing.

> > There are plenty of people credit card farming to pay for carries in raids.

> >

> > While I agree with a lot of what you wrote, Arenanet's stance that raid selling is fine invalidates this point completely.

> > You can certainly p2w legendary armor in pve.

> >

>

> If you can afford the thousands and thousands of dollars to drop on a video game then you are legendary in your own right and have earned it lol

 

Indeed. With the current insane raid prices, no-one is realistically able to buy their Legendary armour, lol. 500 Mystic Coins per LI or whatever.

 

[Zalavaaris.5329]

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said:

> > > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > > Let’s be real here: “Open world PvE Legendary” is really just a code word for “gold sink”. One can easily buy 99% mats needed for a “open world PvE” legendary weapon with a Credit Card.

> > > >

> > > > The value of Legendary Armour, be it PvE or PvP, is that unlike the weapons you cannot Pay2Win it. You have to earn it.

> > >

> > > Only this is not true. If it were, raid selling would not be a thing.

> > > There are plenty of people credit card farming to pay for carries in raids.

> > >

> > > While I agree with a lot of what you wrote, Arenanet's stance that raid selling is fine invalidates this point completely.

> > > You can certainly p2w legendary armor in pve.

> > >

> >

> > If you can afford the thousands and thousands of dollars to drop on a video game then you are legendary in your own right and have earned it lol

>

> Indeed. With the current insane raid prices, no-one is realistically able to buy their Legendary armour, lol. 500 Mystic Coins per LI or whatever.

>

 

Yea so let's say its 500g per boss kill. You need 150 for the FIRST set. So let's say 500g is roughly 25 dollars which is at a conversion rate of 1000 gems per 250g which is uncommonly low. So that's 25 dollars per boss kill. That's $3750 for the first set of gear for JUST the LIs. Now add on another 100ish dollars for the actual materials you need. So with gems to gold conversion being unrealistically low you're still looking at near 4k. At real normal gold prices it's over 4k real dollars for the first set. I don't believe people are actually buying legendary armor for real money.

[Miellyn.6847]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > > Again with you people telling raiders how we think. Tsk tsk tsk. As I said - as a raider with full Legendary armour for my main, and more than enough LI to make another if I do wish it - I don’t want to exclude people from Raids. Far from it. I find the current catch 22 with having to need LI to be able to get your first LI to be a serious problem and Anet should step in and make getting started with Raiding to be less stupid - anyone who has the drive and desire to Raid should be allowed to relatively easy at least get to try it out.

> > > >

> > > > I don’t want to _exclude players from Raids_ but I’m very adamant in keeping the Envoy Legendary armour _exclusive to Raids_.

> > > >

> > > > See how that is quite different from what you’re trying to tell me I believe?

> > > Not really, since what we're talking about is not an Envoy armor, but an access to a legendary armor (preferably with its own unique skin) outside of raids.

> >

> > The OP specifically mentions the envoy skin.

> Umm...

>

> > @"Fenom.9457" said:

> > When I refer to armor outside of raids I mean skins - the same set as raids or (**preferably**) a second one.

> See the bolded part? And what's after it? Right...

>

> Besides

>

> > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > Why should there be friggin two PvE legendary armour sets?

> You are already aware of that.

>

> And there was also that post where you partically said outright that non-raid pve doesn't deserve any legendary armor.

>

 

ArenaNet said a second set will not come soon if it ever happens. The fact that it took around a year to make and the massive backlash from the community because everyone thought it will fit his own image means that it will never happen. So yes it is about the envoy skin.

[Ragmon.6350]

I would like it to happen, but they look horrible in my opinion, so I dont care.

[thehipone.6812]

I'm not huge fan of their looks, but the economy would probably benefit from the new material sink if they were non-raid craftable/earnable

[STIHL.2489]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> **Random Thoughts, Not Necessarily Connected**

> +I guess ANet bit off more than they could chew when MoB said, "So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2." Turns out that those who "love" MMO's won't tolerate MMO's without certain features that others hate.

 

Not really. They simply lost their direction and it is showing.

 

If they had kept to some of their basic ideas, from the start like this for example:

 

> We believe that gamers want to try new things, new experiences, and that they’ll reward the companies who can bring them something new.

 

This is very true, so, when they opted to try and make more challenging content, they should have pushed a new direction with that. The largest mistake they made was just doing what everyone else is doing, and they already knew that supposed to be something they were trying not to do with this game.

 

Right here.

 

>Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun

 

And, then they went ahead and did exactly that.

 

I was not just a matter if they bit off more then they could chew, that was obvious when they focused on PvE and let WvW die a slow painful death and it was clear they didn't have the resources to really tend the game as a whole.

 

The real issue was, they simply did not keep to their original design intent and thus did not challenge themselves to come up with a better solution to a generic complaint.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Zalavaaris.5329" said:

> > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said:

> > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > > > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > > > Let’s be real here: “Open world PvE Legendary” is really just a code word for “gold sink”. One can easily buy 99% mats needed for a “open world PvE” legendary weapon with a Credit Card.

> > > > >

> > > > > The value of Legendary Armour, be it PvE or PvP, is that unlike the weapons you cannot Pay2Win it. You have to earn it.

> > > >

> > > > Only this is not true. If it were, raid selling would not be a thing.

> > > > There are plenty of people credit card farming to pay for carries in raids.

> > > >

> > > > While I agree with a lot of what you wrote, Arenanet's stance that raid selling is fine invalidates this point completely.

> > > > You can certainly p2w legendary armor in pve.

> > > >

> > >

> > > If you can afford the thousands and thousands of dollars to drop on a video game then you are legendary in your own right and have earned it lol

> >

> > Indeed. With the current insane raid prices, no-one is realistically able to buy their Legendary armour, lol. 500 Mystic Coins per LI or whatever.

> >

>

> Yea so let's say its 500g per boss kill. You need 150 for the FIRST set. So let's say 500g is roughly 25 dollars which is at a conversion rate of 1000 gems per 250g which is uncommonly low. So that's 25 dollars per boss kill. That's $3750 for the first set of gear for JUST the LIs. Now add on another 100ish dollars for the actual materials you need. So with gems to gold conversion being unrealistically low you're still looking at near 4k. At real normal gold prices it's over 4k real dollars for the first set. I don't believe people are actually buying legendary armor for real money.

 

last I heard Its' 80 - 120 gold per boss, and a good raid selling team could very easy make a several thousand gold in a day.

 

Now I don't know all the numbers, but on one of the various other _Raid_ topics, someone explained that it was around 2500 gold per set, to buy the LI's (Raid completions).

 

Current market exchange, would be around 200 Real Dollars per set, or 600 for all 3 sets (not including other mats).

 

It's not that expensive when you think about it, about same price as a G1 Legendary Weapon.

 

Quite frankly, WvW is the only method where you have to earn it, as Raids are Sold, and I have even heard of Win Trades in sPvP. But, in WvW, you gotta go out there and get it yourself, as mousy or tiger as you want.

[Tachenon.5270]

Is it truly better to look marvelous than to feel marvelous? That's one for the philosophers, I suppose. I my own very MEH-velous self have no interest in working on anything for a long amount of time -- in this game or any other -- just to look marvelous. But if other players want to do that, they're welcome to it. Or should I say, they're NO PROBLEM to it. Ah. Hah. Hah hah. Hah hah hah hah.

[Zalavaaris.5329]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said:

> > > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said:

> > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > > > > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > > > > Let’s be real here: “Open world PvE Legendary” is really just a code word for “gold sink”. One can easily buy 99% mats needed for a “open world PvE” legendary weapon with a Credit Card.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The value of Legendary Armour, be it PvE or PvP, is that unlike the weapons you cannot Pay2Win it. You have to earn it.

> > > > >

> > > > > Only this is not true. If it were, raid selling would not be a thing.

> > > > > There are plenty of people credit card farming to pay for carries in raids.

> > > > >

> > > > > While I agree with a lot of what you wrote, Arenanet's stance that raid selling is fine invalidates this point completely.

> > > > > You can certainly p2w legendary armor in pve.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > If you can afford the thousands and thousands of dollars to drop on a video game then you are legendary in your own right and have earned it lol

> > >

> > > Indeed. With the current insane raid prices, no-one is realistically able to buy their Legendary armour, lol. 500 Mystic Coins per LI or whatever.

> > >

> >

> > Yea so let's say its 500g per boss kill. You need 150 for the FIRST set. So let's say 500g is roughly 25 dollars which is at a conversion rate of 1000 gems per 250g which is uncommonly low. So that's 25 dollars per boss kill. That's $3750 for the first set of gear for JUST the LIs. Now add on another 100ish dollars for the actual materials you need. So with gems to gold conversion being unrealistically low you're still looking at near 4k. At real normal gold prices it's over 4k real dollars for the first set. I don't believe people are actually buying legendary armor for real money.

>

> last I heard Its' 80 - 120 gold per boss, and a good raid selling team could very easy make a several thousand gold in a day.

>

> Now I don't know all the numbers, but on one of the various other _Raid_ topics, someone explained that it was around 2500 gold per set, to buy the LI's (Raid completions).

>

> Current market exchange, would be around 200 Real Dollars per set, or 600 for all 3 sets (not including other mats).

>

> It's not that expensive when you think about it, about same price as a G1 Legendary Weapon.

>

> Quite frankly, WvW is the only method where you have to earn it, as Raids are Sold, and I have even heard of Win Trades in sPvP. But, in WvW, you gotta go out there and get it yourself, as mousy or tiger as you want.

 

Well let's say the cost is 90 and split the difference. That would still be 13500 gold. So let's say 1000g is 50 dollars. That would be roughly 700 dollars for the first set. So the second would still be 1400. I don't see people spending that on a cosmetic item regularly. With the exception of a couple potential whales.

[Tails.9372]

> @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> ArenaNet said a second set will not come soon if it ever happens.

And then we got four PvP sets.

[Blaeys.3102]

As much as I hate exclusive items limited to a single game mode - given the time and effort that went into making the first set, I do not think they should ever do another. There are so many other things that would be a better use of developer resources.

 

And I care nothing for the design of the first set - like most, I just find them visually unappealing.

[BadSanta.6527]

raids is the worst thing that ever happend to the game wish no more raids invested

[Zalavaaris.5329]

I honestly think that if you want an exclusive item that is exclusive to one game mode you have two choices. Accept you dont like the mode or are incapable of completing it and not get the reward or you figure it out and go get the reward. I did not raid when the armor came out. I did not do wvw either. The only time I'd go into wvw was for a gift of battle. I really really wanted the medium legendary set so you know what I did? I went and got it because we all have the opportunity to do that. When warbringer came out I was rank 22. I went and did it and am over 350 and have my back piece. You want it? Go get it!

 

Edit: I'm not trying to be a toxic elitist or anything. It isn't about me being better than you. It's about you being better than you think you can be. Well I'm here to tell you that you can do it and I have faith in you! You got this! Go getchu some armor sets!

[Fenom.9457]

> @"Zalavaaris.5329" said:

> I honestly think that if you want an exclusive item that is exclusive to one game mode you have two choices. Accept you dont like the mode or are incapable of completing it and not get the reward or you figure it out and go get the reward. I did not raid when the armor came out. I did not do wvw either. The only time I'd go into wvw was for a gift of battle. I really really wanted the medium legendary set so you know what I did? I went and got it because we all have the opportunity to do that. When warbringer came out I was rank 22. I went and did it and am over 350 and have my back piece. You want it? Go get it!

>

> Edit: I'm not trying to be a toxic elitist or anything. It isn't about me being better than you. It's about you being better than you think you can be. Well I'm here to tell you that you can do it and I have faith in you! You got this! Go getchu some armor sets!

 

More than happy to go get, provided the community doesn’t make it nearly impossible on top of really high requirements

[Zalavaaris.5329]

> @"Fenom.9457" said:

> > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said:

> > I honestly think that if you want an exclusive item that is exclusive to one game mode you have two choices. Accept you dont like the mode or are incapable of completing it and not get the reward or you figure it out and go get the reward. I did not raid when the armor came out. I did not do wvw either. The only time I'd go into wvw was for a gift of battle. I really really wanted the medium legendary set so you know what I did? I went and got it because we all have the opportunity to do that. When warbringer came out I was rank 22. I went and did it and am over 350 and have my back piece. You want it? Go get it!

> >

> > Edit: I'm not trying to be a toxic elitist or anything. It isn't about me being better than you. It's about you being better than you think you can be. Well I'm here to tell you that you can do it and I have faith in you! You got this! Go getchu some armor sets!

>

> More than happy to go get, provided the community doesn’t make it nearly impossible on top of really high requirements

 

It's not impossible! You can do it! I did it with zero LIs and I didn't start with a guild. I had to struggle through training runs and once I had enough a good 10 or 15 kills I would join groups and volunteer for the jobs that took skill so I could prove myself. After doing that a few times I started getting guild invites. You can do it! It wont be easy but it'll be a legendary journey that's for sure!

[Oglaf.1074]

> @"Zalavaaris.5329" said:

> I honestly think that if you want an exclusive item that is exclusive to one game mode you have two choices. Accept you dont like the mode or are incapable of completing it and not get the reward or you figure it out and go get the reward. I did not raid when the armor came out. I did not do wvw either. The only time I'd go into wvw was for a gift of battle. I really really wanted the medium legendary set so you know what I did? I went and got it because we all have the opportunity to do that. When warbringer came out I was rank 22. I went and did it and am over 350 and have my back piece. You want it? Go get it!

>

> Edit: I'm not trying to be a toxic elitist or anything. It isn't about me being better than you. It's about you being better than you think you can be. Well I'm here to tell you that you can do it and I have faith in you! You got this! Go getchu some armor sets!

 

 

Exactly my sentiments. I personally don’t do Fractals because Raiding means I’ve slotted WvW stat infusions in my gear so I cannot get any AR. Or rather, I could probably get AR infusions with stats but I don’t want to grind for that. This of course locks me out of a lot of gear (such as the Legendary backpack).

 

But you’re not seeing me creating threads about non-Fractal alternatives to Fractal-exclusive gear, do you? No, I don’t want to do that content and as a result I’ve come to terms with not getting the rewards. Simple as that.

[STIHL.2489]

I think what people miss is that the Legendary Armor is more then just a skin.

 

See I am all for exclusive items in content, in fact, I love the idea of Dungeon Armor **Skins**, Fractal Weapon **Skins**, even SAB tribulation mode exclusive **skins** (Which I will never get) and the like, but the key word here is **Skins**

 

See a rare or hard to obtain Skin (like a title) is a sign of Prestige, something to show off, it makes your Items just a little cooler then other items, without the actual need to put in a gear grind. When it is a _Tier of Gear_, that is when things become an issue and now it is a gear grind.

 

Right now, Legendary Weapons are the only Legendary System I think that is done Right. G1 requires WvW and various kinds of PvE. G2 paths are their own world exploring saga, which is really great. HoT has it's own sets, PoF has their own sets (incomplete right now, but there at least) and that is really how things should be.

 

Each Expansion should contain their own Legendary Sets (Weapons, Armor, Back) with skins indicative to that Expansion or Game Mode. Not all of them need to be this transforming show (which I don't care for anyway), but they should at the very least be their own unique style. Like the WvW Legendary Armor, should match to Warbringer (the back item), which would designate it as that "Legendary Set" just like the sPvP Armor should match The Ascension, to denote it's game mode.

 

The fact that the HoT Raid Armor looks nothing like Ad Infinitum, kinda begs for HoT to have it's own back item, to match it's armor set (maybe one that also Transforms) Also, that sets the stage for Core to have it's own set that matches Ad Infinitum at least somewhat.

 

IMHO, right now, Legendary Armor and Back look like cobbled together "Armor Sets" .. and.. Umm.. eww.

 

Since I believe that a large part of GW2, is about design and accessibility, I am fully against the PvE Legendary Back item being restricted to only Fractals, it's limiting and poor development to say the least, they should have put in a Legendary Back item into HoT before they put in the Armor (and that is coming from someone that likes Fractals and HATES HoT)

 

Equally so, as they try to expand the game more and more, they ultimately give less and less to do. I hate to say it, but, unless you planed to make a Legendary in HoT, after the story and unlocking Endless Gliding, HoT has no attraction to it, the Metas are only worth doing if there is something more holding you there, otherwise there are more profitable and easier money and mat grinds in the game. Same with PoF, after the Story and Mounts, there is nothing really worthwhile to do there unless there is a plan to make a Legendary Item.

 

This is why Putting Legendary Journeys into the Expansions gives them longevity, it gives players a long term reason to continue to do the content, or return to the content.

 

Metas, Events, and Story are all very short lived, if there is no long term goal also attached to them. Legendary Items where the Long Term goals in GW2.

 

And they really should invest into that.