Account suspension discussion [merged]

[Nightlark.4029]

> @"ShiningSquirrel.3751" said:

> Funny how so many people are claiming cheatengine is not used for GW2. Just a quick google search shows it absolutely can and IS used to cheat in GW2. It's actually pretty shocking to see what it can accomplish and what players are really doing with it.

My point is not that Cheat Engine is not ever used with GW2, but that even though it _can_ be used, there are **enough legitimate uses** for Cheat Engine that ANet _should have had a check_ implemented that makes sure Cheat Engine is being used with GW2, instead of being used with a different program (or sitting idly -- you probably leave a browser open for long periods of time in the background while playing games), like debugging notepad.exe

[CETheLucid.3964]

> @"Nightlark.4029" said:

> > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > And cheat engine part what does the name mean its kinda obvius what it does the its called CHEAT ENGINE isnt ore is it just me

> You likely aren't in the field of computer security. Despite the name, Cheat Engine does have legitimate uses -- unless you actually look into it and fully read the about page and FAQ on their website, don't try to make an argument that is based only on the name without also addressing the legitimate uses.

 

In that same vein don't pretend CheatEngine doesn't have illegitimate uses, including cheating in GW2. People were using CheatEngine to cheat. Imagine that? Ergo it was included in the banwave. Don't run CheatEngine and GW2 together if you don't want to be banned. Common sense.

[Nightlark.4029]

> @"CETheLucid.3964" said:

> > @"Nightlark.4029" said:

> > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > And cheat engine part what does the name mean its kinda obvius what it does the its called CHEAT ENGINE isnt ore is it just me

> > You likely aren't in the field of computer security. Despite the name, Cheat Engine does have legitimate uses -- unless you actually look into it and fully read the about page and FAQ on their website, don't try to make an argument that is based only on the name without also addressing the legitimate uses.

>

> In that same vein don't pretend CheatEngine doesn't have illegitimate uses, including cheating in GW2. People were using CheatEngine to cheat. Imagine that? Ergo it was included in the banwave. Don't run CheatEngine and GW2 together if you don't want to be banned. Common sense.

I am not pretending it doesn't have illegitimate uses. But ANet should have done their due-diligence when detecting Cheat Engine by making sure that it was attached to GW2 **before banning people who had it open**.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

No, use your due-diligence and not have it running at the same time as this game. Again . . . common sense.

[Obtena.7952]

It's pretty funny that people think somehow, what Anet did to detect these cheaters was exceptional. The only exceptional thing here is that they told us how they did it. I have NO doubts other game studios do the same ... Bliss is good for some people i guess.

[Belorn.2659]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > Shikigami.4013 said:

> >

> > >Except ArenaNet does not need proof. You already know it but you are too deep into your crusade against them to acknowledge this. Instead you choose to ignore all the posts where people have correctly stated and/or proven that ArenaNet can suspend or ban anyone they want to without proof of anything.

> >

> > That may be true in countries that have no laws to protect customers from predatory companies (China? North Korea?). In my country, if you pay for a service, you have a right to use that service and the company that has taken your money is obliged to provide that service as long as you follow the rules. If you buy a ticket for a movie and it is explicitly forbidden to record it with a cam, and you start recording, the theater is absolutely in the right to kick you out without refund, you broke the contract. If you merely carry a smartphone that is capable of recording the movie, and they kick you out, they better refund you. If they don't, they open themselves up to law suits because they refused to provide the service that was paid for.

> >

> > People here might have stated that Anet can ban without proof, but I highly doubt anyone has proven they can do that without consequences. If security guards you out of that theater because you carried a smartphone (and bans you for 6 months), you won't resist in that moment, but you will seek a refund later on. You might even make their actions public on social media and in your circles. If you really care enough, you will get your refund for the service you paid for that was not provided. And it doesn't matter if you bought a gift card to watch a movie weeks earlier with your money, in case you think gems are not like real money. Usually, companies back off quickly when confronted because they don't want to deal with the legal consequences.

> >

> > The "without proof" claim is inaccurate. The company better has some proof for locking my money for 6 months. They can try that and hope that only a few people actually call their lawyer. Most probably won't, but if you had just bought gems for 120 bucks and got banned without proof that you broke any rule, it might be worth it.

> >

> > This was a highly unprofessional chain of actions on Anet's side. If your company lacks the skills, knowledge and experience for a project, that's what external consultants are for. But maybe they thought they had the skills, knowledge and experience, and came up with this method believing everything is fine. If that's the case, it's time to review your business processes.

> >

> > btw, none of my accounts has been banned, I just don't get why some people defend clearly wrong and autocratic behaviour from companies. Even White Knight No 1 here on these forums stated that he doesn't agree with how Anet conducted this raid, because he's somewhat rational despite his love for the company.

> >

> >

>

> The thing is, no one likes this. No one wants this. But it has become the price we need to pay to have the semblance of a legit game to play. The Company needs to protect it's Property, and it's clients understand that.

>

> It would be great if this was just a game and people could log and and play to the best of their abilities and be content with that. But, that is not the case, players feel the need to cheat any game they play, and thus make the game worse for everyone. Now, when people cheat at single player games, no one else is affected, but when they cheat at MMO's, they affect everyone in their game, and the other players realize that the Game Company needs to police their game to keep the cheaters out.

>

> Much like bouncers in a bar, do I like some ogre looking at my licence, and a goon squad that keeps looking for trouble while I am just trying to have a drink and enjoy the show? Nope.. but.. the problem is, there are too many people that come into the bar that can't be trusted, that cause problems, and simply don't want to follow the rules, so, yah, that ogre at the door, and the goon squad, is needed to keep the place running smoothly.

>

> Just like, anything that gets built to enforce the laws and rules, no one likes the idea of having some security measure shoved down our throat, but they are needed to keep things running correctly. Would be great if a company could trust it's players not to cheat.. yah that would great.. never happen, so we stuck with this invasive BS, but, that is the price we have to pay.

>

> If that is not a price you are willing to pay, I can respect that, but understand, in doing that, you have made a choice to play a game that won't take the needed measures to combat cheaters, so, that is your alternative.

 

I have no desire to stop the bouncer, but I have some objects if the bouncer start to take nude pictures of customers and store it for later use. Bouncers are useful but when they start to do things which isn't related to bouncing and has severe ethical issues then its time to ask the bouncer to either stop or at minimum communicate that the records that has nothing to do with bouncing at the bar is deleted and gone.

 

Data collected by anet on players which has done nothing wrong should be deleted. If the only method they had was to collect this data then it should be deleted the moment they find out that the player has not cheated and is innocent. It not too much to ask a game developer to not keep those kind of records against the express will and interest of the customer.

[GreyWolf.8670]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> Shikigami.4013 said:

>

> >Except ArenaNet does not need proof. You already know it but you are too deep into your crusade against them to acknowledge this. Instead you choose to ignore all the posts where people have correctly stated and/or proven that ArenaNet can suspend or ban anyone they want to without proof of anything.

>

> That may be true in countries that have no laws to protect customers from predatory companies (China? North Korea?). In my country, if you pay for a service, you have a right to use that service and the company that has taken your money is obliged to provide that service as long as you follow the rules. If you buy a ticket for a movie and it is explicitly forbidden to record it with a cam, and you start recording, the theater is absolutely in the right to kick you out without refund, you broke the contract. If you merely carry a smartphone that is capable of recording the movie, and they kick you out, they better refund you. If they don't, they open themselves up to law suits because they refused to provide the service that was paid for.

>

> People here might have stated that Anet can ban without proof, but I highly doubt anyone has proven they can do that without consequences. If security guards you out of that theater because you carried a smartphone (and bans you for 6 months), you won't resist in that moment, but you will seek a refund later on. You might even make their actions public on social media and in your circles. If you really care enough, you will get your refund for the service you paid for that was not provided. And it doesn't matter if you bought a gift card to watch a movie weeks earlier with your money, in case you think gems are not like real money. Usually, companies back off quickly when confronted because they don't want to deal with the legal consequences.

>

> The "without proof" claim is inaccurate. The company better has some proof for locking my money for 6 months. They can try that and hope that only a few people actually call their lawyer. Most probably won't, but if you had just bought gems for 120 bucks and got banned without proof that you broke any rule, it might be worth it.

>

> This was a highly unprofessional chain of actions on Anet's side. If your company lacks the skills, knowledge and experience for a project, that's what external consultants are for. But maybe they thought they had the skills, knowledge and experience, and came up with this method believing everything is fine. If that's the case, it's time to review your business processes.

>

> btw, none of my accounts has been banned, I just don't get why some people defend clearly wrong and autocratic behaviour from companies. Even White Knight No 1 here on these forums stated that he doesn't agree with how Anet conducted this raid, because he's somewhat rational despite his love for the company.

>

>

 

If you're in Germany or the EU in general try reading the EULA. You have a remedy. You can have your money refunded and your account deleted.

[Nightlark.4029]

> @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> No, use your due-diligence and not have it running at the same time as this game. Again . . . common sense.

 

Wow. Do you ever leave your web browser running in the background while playing GW2? Same idea, except with debuggers, there isn't necessarily a "restore all tabs" option to pick up right where you left off. I personally have been working on developing an emulator for an old-school game engine (think like ScummVM) -- when figuring out how it works, I'll often leave the original game open and running in a debugger for days, or even weeks at a time, because it doesn't impact overall computer performance much, and being able to just unminimize a window to pick up where I left off is much easier than starting a session from scratch again (which could involve going through several tasks on the original engine to get back to where I was at before). Remember, no "restore all tabs" so the process of getting back to where I left off could take 5-10 minutes, which is a pretty big barrier to resuming work when compared to a second or two that it takes to unminimize something that is already running.

 

Seriously, stop trying to defend ANet on this; the code they would have needed to add the additional check is minimal. If they have no prior experience with the API calls, maybe a few hours to research and implement the added check at most.

[Healix.5819]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> The only exceptional thing here is that they told us how they did it.

 

They only did it because reddit revealed it first. Ultimately, the only thing ArenaNet got out of this was bad PR and more cheaters. Why would they advertise the cheats that they're no longer looking for? Surely they know what they're doing and this entire thing was just a distraction, or was this his swan song?

 

> @"Belorn.2659" said:

> Data collected by anet on players which has done nothing wrong should be deleted.

 

They can't know for sure that people did no wrong. They're likely storing the data and did it the way they did because this way they can use it at a later date. The list of banned software they posted was basically nothing. By keeping the full list of processes, they can go back and ban people months from now once they finally get a sample of some other software. However, they'll never be able to catch the more advanced stuff with the method they used and now that it's know they're looking, they can never do this exact thing again, except for catching legitimate software like CE.

 

[SkyShroud.2865]

> @"Shagaliscious.6281" said:

> I want to know why IP's weren't banned. A certain leader for a guild that I will go unnamed (DUSK) is already back in game playing on his alternate account.

 

You should read the entire thread instead of just posting.

 

There are many ISPs in the world that throw a set of IPs to a set of users in specific region, in other words, IPs are never only used by one person in many cases. We called those dynamic IPs.

 

PS: I welcome everyone who can't win an argument against me to report me, that's what commonly people do.

[Sithis.3564]

This is hilarious.. cheaters blaming ANet. I don't even care if anyone used it only for single-player "experiance" ( lol ). If I had a program on my computer and it had a potential to be used to hack this game, I would be crazy vigilant to make sure it's not "online".

[IndigoSundown.5419]

Last year I decided to try Blade and Soul. At some point during the install, 3rd party software called NProtect Game Guard was also installed. My computer began acting up. It would crash, or refuse to launch Google Chrome or other programs even when B&S was not running. In order to get my computer to run the way it had before, I had to uninstall Game Guard.

 

On the chance that something had gone wrong with the game installation, I uninstalled, and re-downloaded B&S. During the lengthy process, I researched issues with Game Guard, and found I was not alone in finding it a problem. People on the internet were calling it Malware! I found myself in agreement, although I'm sure many people who played B&S back then did not have such problems.

 

On completion of the second B&S install, the same issues cropped up. I complained to Support, specifically asking why their game came with Malware that had harmed my computer. Support offered no solutions, only a statement that Game Guard was required to play. I uninstalled both the "anti-cheat" and the game. I see now that B&S is running a new anti-cheat program, which is also garnering complaints about hits to system performance. I even found one reference (on Reddit) to a user being banned for having Cheat Engine running while playing B&S. It sounded eerily familiar. If you want to read it, Google "Blade and Soul anti cheat."

 

What this experience says to me is that cheating in games like B&S and GW2 is a major issue, an issue which game developers struggle to impact. NCSoft was willing to subject customers to system-breaking 3rd party software to (apparently ineffectually) prevent such cheats. It also seems that bans/suspension for running CE while also running a game is not restricted to GW2.

 

I was not ready to accept the reddit poster's explanation as gospel. I don't have the expertise to evaluate the file he linked to. These days, I find myself questioning everything anyone says online, including the provenance of that file. Maybe others have also independently saved game file iterations and performed their own evaluations. Until ANet says more, or other posters provide independent corroboration, I am not willing to accept the poster's work as solid evidence.

 

So, could ANet have gone about things differently? Maybe. At the moment, though, the way ANet worded their most recent statement, it sounds like they did suspend without verifying that CE was being used to impact GW2. Maybe that's so. Maybe they didn't tell us more about how they did it in hopes they could use the same method again. Maybe the statement wording was inaccurate (sometimes, ANet statements are extremely well-thought-out, sometimes less so). So, at this point I am waiting for further developments to inform my opinion, which is very much up in the air at this point.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Belorn.2659" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > Shikigami.4013 said:

> > >

> > > >Except ArenaNet does not need proof. You already know it but you are too deep into your crusade against them to acknowledge this. Instead you choose to ignore all the posts where people have correctly stated and/or proven that ArenaNet can suspend or ban anyone they want to without proof of anything.

> > >

> > > That may be true in countries that have no laws to protect customers from predatory companies (China? North Korea?). In my country, if you pay for a service, you have a right to use that service and the company that has taken your money is obliged to provide that service as long as you follow the rules. If you buy a ticket for a movie and it is explicitly forbidden to record it with a cam, and you start recording, the theater is absolutely in the right to kick you out without refund, you broke the contract. If you merely carry a smartphone that is capable of recording the movie, and they kick you out, they better refund you. If they don't, they open themselves up to law suits because they refused to provide the service that was paid for.

> > >

> > > People here might have stated that Anet can ban without proof, but I highly doubt anyone has proven they can do that without consequences. If security guards you out of that theater because you carried a smartphone (and bans you for 6 months), you won't resist in that moment, but you will seek a refund later on. You might even make their actions public on social media and in your circles. If you really care enough, you will get your refund for the service you paid for that was not provided. And it doesn't matter if you bought a gift card to watch a movie weeks earlier with your money, in case you think gems are not like real money. Usually, companies back off quickly when confronted because they don't want to deal with the legal consequences.

> > >

> > > The "without proof" claim is inaccurate. The company better has some proof for locking my money for 6 months. They can try that and hope that only a few people actually call their lawyer. Most probably won't, but if you had just bought gems for 120 bucks and got banned without proof that you broke any rule, it might be worth it.

> > >

> > > This was a highly unprofessional chain of actions on Anet's side. If your company lacks the skills, knowledge and experience for a project, that's what external consultants are for. But maybe they thought they had the skills, knowledge and experience, and came up with this method believing everything is fine. If that's the case, it's time to review your business processes.

> > >

> > > btw, none of my accounts has been banned, I just don't get why some people defend clearly wrong and autocratic behaviour from companies. Even White Knight No 1 here on these forums stated that he doesn't agree with how Anet conducted this raid, because he's somewhat rational despite his love for the company.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > The thing is, no one likes this. No one wants this. But it has become the price we need to pay to have the semblance of a legit game to play. The Company needs to protect it's Property, and it's clients understand that.

> >

> > It would be great if this was just a game and people could log and and play to the best of their abilities and be content with that. But, that is not the case, players feel the need to cheat any game they play, and thus make the game worse for everyone. Now, when people cheat at single player games, no one else is affected, but when they cheat at MMO's, they affect everyone in their game, and the other players realize that the Game Company needs to police their game to keep the cheaters out.

> >

> > Much like bouncers in a bar, do I like some ogre looking at my licence, and a goon squad that keeps looking for trouble while I am just trying to have a drink and enjoy the show? Nope.. but.. the problem is, there are too many people that come into the bar that can't be trusted, that cause problems, and simply don't want to follow the rules, so, yah, that ogre at the door, and the goon squad, is needed to keep the place running smoothly.

> >

> > Just like, anything that gets built to enforce the laws and rules, no one likes the idea of having some security measure shoved down our throat, but they are needed to keep things running correctly. Would be great if a company could trust it's players not to cheat.. yah that would great.. never happen, so we stuck with this invasive BS, but, that is the price we have to pay.

> >

> > If that is not a price you are willing to pay, I can respect that, but understand, in doing that, you have made a choice to play a game that won't take the needed measures to combat cheaters, so, that is your alternative.

>

> I have no desire to stop the bouncer, but I have some objects if the bouncer start to take nude pictures of customers and store it for later use.

 

Right ... THAT'S how Anet wants their employees to spend their time ... combing through your hard drive for you garbage ... Does anyone realize how ridiculous this all sounds? Anet doesn't want to waste their time to catching cheaters, but they have to ... and you're going to chime in with they are spending EXTRA time stealing your private information while doing it? YES ... that's a great way for them to spend their time :confounded:

 

> @"Healix.5819" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > The only exceptional thing here is that they told us how they did it.

>

> They only did it because reddit revealed it first. Ultimately, the only thing ArenaNet got out of this was bad PR and more cheaters. Why would they advertise the cheats that they're no longer looking for? Surely they know what they're doing and this entire thing was just a distraction, or was this his swan song?

>

That makes no sense ... Even if reddit said something, Anet didn't have to follow up with clarification ... and to be certain, you don't know what else Anet is doing to find more cheaters.

 

What I find continually amusing is that people are so outraged that Anet did this ... it's not a exceptional thing that an organization looked at what you were doing on your computer. It's only outrageous because cheaters want to lash out ... while they peruse Facebook ... big LOL.

 

[Deihnyx.6318]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Belorn.2659" said:

> > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > > Shikigami.4013 said:

> What I find continually amusing is that people are so outraged that Anet did this ... it's not a exceptional thing that an organization looked at what you were doing on your computer. It's only outrageous because cheaters want to lash out ... while they peruse Facebook ... big LOL.

 

Almost like if cheaters had to be protected against evil companies that are just there to take their money and sell their personal info. Almost like specific laws in some countries had been created for the sole purpose of escaping common sense rules in multiplayer games so that whatever a company do, they can just ignore their rules or get refunded when they break them....

Nah instead, you get called a "white knight" for being pragmatic about an issue.

 

------

 

The key word here is honesty. If people are being honest, they know that there is no way shape and form 99% of the people ever asked these questions about every software of every company they've installed. They're not just pointing out a mistake, they're exaggerating it, making it sound so much more than it is for everyone non knowledgeable that is listening, and that is more than happy to jump on a company bashing wagon.

If they actually cared about the game, they would help Anet by offering better ways of tracking down cheaters, they wouldn't be trying to put down a company for trying to do good in the first place.

[trueanimus.4085]

question for those posting here that are whining that they lost their account... Anyone got an account that was suspended back yet? No?

 

so.. stop crying here.. go buy another account if you want to play...

 

AND SIMPLY DONT CHEAT... and you will not be banned.

 

Simple as that.. Cheaters get banned... the way it should be.

 

Have to admit.. it too them long enough to butter up the ban stick.. but thankfully they did.

 

It is kind of nice to be able to kill people again without them sliding off while dead, and getting up again at full HP or just simply flying off or walking through a wall.

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> What I find continually amusing is that people are so outraged that Anet did this ... it's not a exceptional thing that an organization looked at what you were doing on your computer. It's only outrageous because cheaters want to lash out ... while they peruse Facebook ... big LOL.

 

Joke's on you dude, Facebook doesn't know what kind of software you are running on your computer, but Anet does. Also, you control what kind of stuff you give to Facebook. Facebook's business model is collecting data and turning it into profit, they are not secretive about that. Anet's business is providing a service and asking for money to use it, we should not expect them to collect data that has nothing to do with their business. That I'm using MS Word is none of their business, and they don't need that information either.

 

More and more businesses that are not in the data collection and sale business started to collect data nonetheless. I love data, the more the better. You can get awesome insights playing around with it, discover relations you would have never thought of. The only thing that could keep me from collecting everything possible from my customers is the law. And I know very well that if I have that desire, other people have it too, even stronger. Collecting stuff is probably intrinsic for humans, and I totally get that corporations, made up of humans, do that. I work in IT and I have seen that very often, employees don't delete the data they were supposed to delete. The urge to collect stuff and curiosity in humans are a bad combination when it comes to data protection. That's why what's on the Internet will stay on the Internet. I don't expect the database Anet created to ever vanish completely. It will be on some tape, maybe on some external hard disk of an employee, you know, just in case...

[trueanimus.4085]

> @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> > @"Shagaliscious.6281" said:

> > I want to know why IP's weren't banned. A certain leader for a guild that I will go unnamed (DUSK) is already back in game playing on his alternate account.

>

> You should read the entire thread instead of just posting.

>

> There are many ISPs in the world that throw a set of IPs to a set of users in specific region, in other words, IPs are never only used by one person in many cases. We called those dynamic IPs.

>

> PS: I welcome everyone who can't win an argument against me to report me, that's what commonly people do.

 

Well.. most hackers/cheaters always had or have an alt account. The problem with the alt account situation is that the main account is usually the one they cheat on and therefore is the most painful to lose.

 

Alt accounts for many that have them are simply for storage, money farming or... logging onto another wvw server and watching tags or supply/keep tapping missions.

 

Think about it... losing your main with all your good armor/items really hurts.

 

However... i see your point.. once a cheater always a cheater... and there is nothing stopping them from simply running the software again and scanning for hacks and doing a second ban wave.... which honestly isnt a bad idea.

 

So... cheat at your own risk people... the ban hammer has been tied on a sting over your heads and may fall at any moment.....

[Deihnyx.6318]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > What I find continually amusing is that people are so outraged that Anet did this ... it's not a exceptional thing that an organization looked at what you were doing on your computer. It's only outrageous because cheaters want to lash out ... while they peruse Facebook ... big LOL.

>

> Joke's on you dude, Facebook doesn't know what kind of software you are running on your computer, but Anet does. Also, you control what kind of stuff you give to Facebook. Facebook's business model is collecting data and turning it into profit, they are not secretive about that. Anet's business is providing a service and asking for money to use it, we should not expect them to collect data that has nothing to do with their business. That I'm using MS Word is none of their business, and they don't need that information either.

 

Every program running on your computer potentially knows what's running around them.

What they do with it is what matters.

[trueanimus.4085]

 

> If you're in Germany or the EU in general try reading the EULA. You have a remedy. You can have your money refunded and your account deleted.

 

EULA means everything in situations like this... basically by signing in , you are agreeing to let them do whatever they want. But that is kind of funny when you state it like that lol

 

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > What I find continually amusing is that people are so outraged that Anet did this ... it's not a exceptional thing that an organization looked at what you were doing on your computer. It's only outrageous because cheaters want to lash out ... while they peruse Facebook ... big LOL.

>

> Joke's on you dude, Facebook doesn't know what kind of software you are running on your computer, but Anet does. Also, you control what kind of stuff you give to Facebook. Facebook's business model is collecting data and turning it into profit, they are not secretive about that. Anet's business is providing a service and asking for money to use it, we should not expect them to collect data that has nothing to do with their business. That I'm using MS Word is none of their business, and they don't need that information either.

>

> More and more businesses that are not in the data collection and sale business started to collect data nonetheless. I love data, the more the better. You can get awesome insights playing around with it, discover relations you would have never thought of. The only thing that could keep me from collecting everything possible from my customers is the law. And I know very well that if I have that desire, other people have it too, even stronger. Collecting stuff is probably intrinsic for humans, and I totally get that corporations, made up of humans, do that. I work in IT and I have seen that very often, employees don't delete the data they were supposed to delete. The urge to collect stuff and curiosity in humans are a bad combination when it comes to data protection. That's why what's on the Internet will stay on the Internet. I don't expect the database Anet created to ever vanish completely. It will be on some tape, maybe on some external hard disk of an employee, you know, just in case...

 

I guess you didn't get the point and wanted to focus on making a pedantic argument. The data Anet collected to ban cheaters DOES have EVERYTHING to do with their business; the existence of the game depends on detecting these things.

[trueanimus.4085]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> And cheat engine part what does the name mean its kinda obvius what it does the its called CHEAT ENGINE isnt ore is it just me

 

yeah im guessing so.. There have always been ways to hack/cheat in MMOs... Personally i never have cheated.. since it kills all the fun in the game... but i can remember as far back as Asheron's Call there was a program people talked about called "Gear" ... and no.. it wasn't just for getting gear.. it was used to slow down the server so people could win at pvp by making those around you lag. It got so bad that turbine even added a monster in a dungeon with 1 hp called the lag monster... was hilarious.

 

People saying they only used the cheat engine thing to get ore or wood etc.. IS STILL CHEATING... I have no idea how it worked or what bonus you got from mining with it on... but it was cheating

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > What I find continually amusing is that people are so outraged that Anet did this ... it's not a exceptional thing that an organization looked at what you were doing on your computer. It's only outrageous because cheaters want to lash out ... while they peruse Facebook ... big LOL.

> >

> > Joke's on you dude, Facebook doesn't know what kind of software you are running on your computer, but Anet does. Also, you control what kind of stuff you give to Facebook. Facebook's business model is collecting data and turning it into profit, they are not secretive about that. Anet's business is providing a service and asking for money to use it, we should not expect them to collect data that has nothing to do with their business. That I'm using MS Word is none of their business, and they don't need that information either.

>

> Every program running on your computer potentially knows what's running around them.

> What they do with it is what matters.

 

True, I forgot to differentiate between monitoring and sending the data home. I said in another post that I don't mind if software X knows that I'm running software Y, as long as the information is kept locally.

 

> @"trueanimus.4085" said:

>

> > If you're in Germany or the EU in general try reading the EULA. You have a remedy. You can have your money refunded and your account deleted.

>

> EULA means everything in situations like this... basically by signing in , you are agreeing to let them do whatever they want. But that is kind of funny when you state it like that lol

>

 

The point is that you are not bound to the EULA or any other agreement if you were not shown it and agreed to it before buying the game (in Germany). When I go to the Anet webpage and purchase GW2, then get the download link and install the game, it's already too late for the EULA.

 

It is indeed kinda funny that you lol about this out of ignorance. It's not something everybody knows (or needs to know), I admit that, but you could have given GreyWolf the beneefit of doubt after his statement and look it up.

 

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> I guess you didn't get the point and wanted to focus on making a pedantic argument. The data Anet collected to ban cheaters DOES have EVERYTHING to do with their business; the existence of the game depends on detecting these things.

 

Please explain to me why it was necessary for Anet to log all software running on my computer and send the data to their servers to secure their business. I'll grab some popcorn because I'm really interested in your version of the truth.

[ArchonWing.9480]

> @"trueanimus.4085" said:

>

> > If you're in Germany or the EU in general try reading the EULA. You have a remedy. You can have your money refunded and your account deleted.

>

> EULA means everything in situations like this... basically by signing in , you are agreeing to let them do whatever they want. But that is kind of funny when you state it like that lol

>

 

 

Could you point out the part of the EULA that allows them to do whatever they want? What if they wipe out your hard drive in case you might be cheating? Can they use it to mine bitcoin?

[Evon Skyfyre.9673]

..........

[Zedek.8932]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"Grogba.6204" said:

> > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > Oh sure, they weren't doing anything :wink: :wink: just like I never speed.

> >

> > Maybe your license shoud be removed then as you are danger for yourself and other people, considering you cannot obey the law when it comes to speeding.

> >

>

> Lucky for us.. we only get punished when caught.. and.. well.. you all got caught.. now take the points on your licence and your ticket like an adult.

 

Just wait a couple of years when the speedometer and the GPS will immediately issue tickets and points by themselves. Because privacy in cars is also today non-existant when they have microphones everywhere.