morrolan.9608 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 > @"Tinnel.4369" said: > > @"FerrenoNL.7928" said: > > > @"Tinnel.4369" said: > > > > @"Ewon.5903" said: > > > > > @"Tinnel.4369" said: > > > > > > @"Ewon.5903" said: > > > > > > > @"Tinnel.4369" said: > > > > > > > their statement specified tampering with the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did it say tampering with the game? I only saw it say "at the same time". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quoted from the message the actual banned were given. > > > > > > > > So, not their statement, but rather from the support GM? > > > > > > I'll be dammed if I can find it now, this thread is a mess, but it referred to the message they were given when opening the game to find themselves banned. > > > > The exact message for me (running CE alongside GW2, without actually tampering with the game) reads: > > > > Your Guild Wars 2 account has been suspended for modifying or tampering with the game, which is a breach of the User Agreement and Rules of Conduct. Access will be restored in 4224 hours > > @"morrolan.9608" I think that is worded in such a way that it doesn't actually dispute the original statement in this thread. Thats what he was suspended for but their proof is that GW2 was running at the same time as Cheat Engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 > @"morrolan.9608" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > Ok... step up..the _wrongly accused_ and make your plea.. > > > > So .. Cheat-Engine, used to cheat at GW2, can also be used to modify Single Player Games, but has _other uses_ well.. ok, explain to me what _Other_ Legitimate Use anyone would have to have this programming running in the background on their personal computer, for _significant amount of hours across a multi-week time period_ , while playing GW2. > > > > I'll give you all a chance to change my mind that you're not filthy cheaters. > > One guy on reddit was told BY ARENANET that he was suspended for having one of the banned programs running alongside GW2 for 1.5 hours. Not significant at all. IIRC, that was a known direct GW2 hack program that had no other purpose. And how was that supposed to change my mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightlark.4029 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 > @"GreyWolf.8670" said: > > @"Nightlark.4029" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Nightlark.4029" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > Ok... step up..the _wrongly accused_ and make your plea.. > > > > > > > > > > So .. Cheat-Engine, used to cheat at GW2, can also be used to modify Single Player Games, but has _other uses_ well.. ok, explain to me what _Other_ Legitimate Use anyone would have to have this programming running in the background on their personal computer, for _significant amount of hours across a multi-week time period_ , while playing GW2. > > > > > > > > > > I'll give you all a chance to change my mind that you're not filthy cheaters. > > > > I've already explained other uses _multiple times_, and why it could be left running in the background (in the middle of a project debugging another program, much lower friction to just leave it running in the background than to close everything and spend 5-10 minutes getting back to where you left off). Fine, choose to be ignorant, just kill me already. > > > > > > > > Though I guess I don't fall into the _wrongly accused_ category (considering I haven't been banned), so maybe that's why what I'm saying falls on deaf ears. > > > > > > So, tell me, why would someone be doing project debugging on their _home computer_ for _substantial amounts of hours across a multi-week time frame_ while playing GW2 at the same time? > > > > > > I mean, while if it was their work computer, (Which is a great way to get fired just FYI) at the very least, this would be a programmer, who, lets be real, knows what this program is commonly used for, so they can't feign ignorance of what they are using, and secondly, a programmer would read the EULA, as they often work by them. > > > > > > You know, I'd believe you, if it was a one time thing, but this was for a _substantial amount of hours across a multi-week time frame_. > > > > > > So, nahh.. not going to buy that _project debugging_ line. > > > > > > Care to try again,.. maybe this time with something remotely believable? > > > > > > also, if you haven't been vacationed.. then you are an enabler, which to be honest, is worse then a cheater. > > > > All I can say is.. wow... seriously, I'm rather hurt that you're calling me worse than a cheater and a liar, when I've explained multiple times why a program like CE might be open for days at a time -- ever heard of side/personal projects? Or freelancers whose home computer is also their work computer? I have a program open in IDA right now that I've been working on reverse engineering for **years** just for the fun of it and the learning experience (personal projects helped with getting my current job), and IDA has been open for the the past _two weeks_. The same thing happens sometimes with having a program open in a debugger -- when I get home from work I want to _get stuff done_ and be able to pick up where I left off in the middle of a function instead of spending time getting back to where I was the other day. It is up to you if you want to buy it or not, but it is the truth -- I know that, and if you don't want to believe it, well, nothing I can say will make you.. just kill me and don't bother replying, because I doubt you've worked on a reverse engineering project for fun, and probably never will -- which is why you will continue to find it unbelievable. > > You're using a disassembler that costs thousands of dollars for a "for fun" project? > > And no, I generally close down all of my development software when I'm not using it. Yes and no. They have a rather capable freeware version that's more than enough for what I'm doing, and I've had access to a full version (mostly adds support for other processor architectures) through uni/work for the past 4 or so years. Eh, to each their own style. The most difficult thing for me is getting started again after taking a break and I find leaving software open helps minimize the psychological obstacles to doing things after work, beyond lying down on couch and watching TV. --- > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Nightlark.4029" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Nightlark.4029" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > Ok... step up..the _wrongly accused_ and make your plea.. > > > > > > > > > > So .. Cheat-Engine, used to cheat at GW2, can also be used to modify Single Player Games, but has _other uses_ well.. ok, explain to me what _Other_ Legitimate Use anyone would have to have this programming running in the background on their personal computer, for _significant amount of hours across a multi-week time period_ , while playing GW2. > > > > > > > > > > I'll give you all a chance to change my mind that you're not filthy cheaters. > > > > I've already explained other uses _multiple times_, and why it could be left running in the background (in the middle of a project debugging another program, much lower friction to just leave it running in the background than to close everything and spend 5-10 minutes getting back to where you left off). Fine, choose to be ignorant, just kill me already. > > > > > > > > Though I guess I don't fall into the _wrongly accused_ category (considering I haven't been banned), so maybe that's why what I'm saying falls on deaf ears. > > > > > > So, tell me, why would someone be doing project debugging on their _home computer_ for _substantial amounts of hours across a multi-week time frame_ while playing GW2 at the same time? > > > > > > I mean, while if it was their work computer, (Which is a great way to get fired just FYI) at the very least, this would be a programmer, who, lets be real, knows what this program is commonly used for, so they can't feign ignorance of what they are using, and secondly, a programmer would read the EULA, as they often work by them. > > > > > > You know, I'd believe you, if it was a one time thing, but this was for a _substantial amount of hours across a multi-week time frame_. > > > > > > So, nahh.. not going to buy that _project debugging_ line. > > > > > > Care to try again,.. maybe this time with something remotely believable? > > > > > > also, if you haven't been vacationed.. then you are an enabler, which to be honest, is worse then a cheater. > > > > All I can say is.. wow... seriously, I'm rather hurt that you're calling me worse than a cheater and a liar, when I've explained multiple times why a program like CE might be open for days at a time -- ever heard of side/personal projects? Or freelancers whose home computer is also their work computer? I have a program open in IDA right now that I've been working on reverse engineering for **years** just for the fun of it and the learning experience (personal projects helped with getting my current job), and IDA has been open for the the past _two weeks_. The same thing happens sometimes with having a program open in a debugger -- when I get home from work I want to _get stuff done_ and be able to pick up where I left off in the middle of a function instead of spending time getting back to where I was the other day. It is up to you if you want to buy it or not, but it is the truth -- I know that, and if you don't want to believe it, well, nothing I can say will make you.. just kill me and don't bother replying, because I doubt you've worked on a reverse engineering project for fun, and probably never will -- which is why you will continue to find it unbelievable. > > First, I never called you a liar, and I am insulted that you have said that lie about me. > > Second: Yes, enablers are far worse then cheaters, as at least a cheater knows and understands what they are doing is wrong, that they are breaking the rules by cheating, and will get punished if caught, where an enabler tries to justify the actions of the cheater as not being wrong. > > Finally: If you want to enable cheaters and hack programs in the games you play, I can will at least respect that is what you want, and wish you good luck and good fortune in finding a game where you can play freely with them, but, I don't want it to be this game. > > Good day. 1. I'm sorry that I claimed you called me a liar, but maybe you could explain "So, nahh.. not going to buy that _project debugging_ line", since that comes across as you saying that I said something that is not true. 2. I am not justifying the actions of cheaters. I'm explaining why the presence of a piece of software running is not necessarily an indication of cheating. If they cheated then they fully deserve what they got, but having a piece of software with many other uses running minimized in the background is not cheating (since it is in not acting unfairly or dishonestly to gain an advantage -- if anything, it is a disadvantage having extra software sitting idle in the background eating CPU cycles). I hope we can agree on that point at least. 3. Ehh... that kinda hurts that you're basically telling me to quit this game. As stated in #2, I fully agree that players who actually cheated in this game should be banned. I'd like to apologize for the harsh language in my previous reply. 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Faaris.8013 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 > @"trueanimus.4085" said: > Im guessing here but prob 99.9% of the accounts were banned in the USA and those that were banned overseas cant sue a US company anyway. AGB or EULA... they state that they have the right to monitor your pc (processes, ram, HD and even connection) and they banned you for running cheat programs at the same time as the game exe. Cheating or not.. they have the right to ban you at any time for any reason according to the agreement you clicked yes to. > > buh bye now... > > no no... just... Buh Bye... Bye bye only if I decide to not log into the game anymore. None of my accounts have been banned, you know. I haven't logged in since the day before yesterday, when I learned about Anet's raid through these forums. I'm not personally affected by the bans, none of my guild mates got banned either as far as I can tell. You either refuse to read what I have written or you you ignore it for some other reason. I really doubt that the majority of bans were handed to US citizens, but it doesn't matter really. Why do you think Americans are more prone to cheating? ^^ It's not like 99% of the players are Americans. Oh, and why do you believe European citizens cannot sue a US company? I did business in the US by purchasing the game (and gems) from ArenaNet, Inc. Seattle. If you do business in the US, you can sue there. If you did business with a European subsidary, you sue in Europe (like Ireland in the case of Facebook). Is it feasible to sue or threaten to sue a company over peanuts? Probably not. It will become more feasible to sue for privacy issues soon though. I'm not going into details, you are fixated on your interpretation of "monitoring" which for you includes "sending sensitive data from Europe to the USA". You even think that a company that sells a service for money can just end the contract for any reason. I highly recommend you educate yourself on basic legal matters, especially when you live in the USA. You don't need to become a lawyer but it's quite helpful to know your rights in the country with the highest lawyer per capita rate where everybody sues everybody. > @"Rajani Isa.6294" said: > I myself wonder exactly what was sent - if ChrisCleary would share if it was only processes that were on a list or all that was sent would be nice - but getting upset at cheat module checking running processes is silly. I agree, that would be silly. Getting upset because the stuff is sent over the Internet to some server without need is not stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vayne.8563 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > > > @"Shikigami.4013" said: > > > > German people who think they can do anything and ArenaNet can do nothing should get a lawyer and fight it out if they are so sure. You know, like those people who have been fighting against the "GEZ" for years. > > > > > > > > For all non-germans, all germans who have an own home address and no longer live with their parents have to pay money for their ability to watch TV and listen to radio, even if they prove that they do not have a TV or a radio. > > > > > > > > Good luck with getting a better or faster outcome of your case of "ArenaNet may not check my running processes because the EULA is invalid in germany"..... > > > > > > No, they should not try to take legal actions from Germany against a company that sits in Seattle, it would be a waste of time and money. That might change in May when new legislation takes place in Europe, everybody doing business in Europe will have to adjust then. > > > > > > The point is that Anet didn't do anyone a favour, not the players who trusted them and not themselves. They kitten up, again, and people wait for a reaction. I want to see an official statement with an apology, I want to know what exactly was sent to Anet servers, what happened with the data after the investigation was done, and I want to see a promise that they will not do it again in the way they did. > > > > I completely disagree with the idea that Anet didn't do anyone a favor... > > > > For the people who follow this, closely and deeply, which is a very small percentage of the player base. it'll make a difference. Most of the playerbase won't even know this happened. > > > > Beyond that, I'm happy some cheaters were banned, period. I don't love that some people got false bans, but I do want cheaters banned. > > > > For ages people post about Anet not doing anything about cheating and now that they do, people are complaining...but not everyone is complaining. I'm not complaining. 1500 people is a pretty small percentage of people playing the game after all. > > > > The biggest mistake, in my opinion, was saying straight up there would be no appeals. That's NEVER a good look. But I think there are people that are fine with what happened, just as there are people who aren't. > > > > > > I very much doubt banning this small number of accounts will make any difference in the grand scheme of things.. but yeah mostly we will never really know. > I bet a lot of those accounts banned were farming accounts or trial of cheating accounts, most wont be using their main accounts unless really stupid. But even if they were all the players main accounts I would bet they all have at least 1,5,10,20 alt accounts and are already back in game using the cheats again because 1- the hack devs will of likely already modded their own hacks and 2 - cheats will always cheat for cheating sake, its what they do , it's how they get their thrill. The fact that it was done publicly will make some difference. You're never going to stop dedicated cheaters from cheating, butyou can deter some people from starting. That's as much a part of it as anything. Some cheaters are hard core dedicated hackers and some aren't. You can't make a lock pick proof, but you can make it hard enough for some people to spend too long working on to make it worth their while. That's pretty much how all security works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belorn.2659 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 > @"GreyWolf.8670" said: > > @"Belorn.2659" said: > > > @"trueanimus.4085" said: > > > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > > > @"trueanimus.4085" said: > > > > > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > > > > > @"trueanimus.4085" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you're in Germany or the EU in general try reading the EULA. You have a remedy. You can have your money refunded and your account deleted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > EULA means everything in situations like this... basically by signing in , you are agreeing to let them do whatever they want. But that is kind of funny when you state it like that lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Could you point out the part of the EULA that allows them to do whatever they want? What if they wipe out your hard drive in case you might be cheating? Can they use it to mine bitcoin? > > > > > > > > > > When there is a patch... you agree by loading the launcher to add the patch correct? It has to make changes to your HD to do so.. correct? By loading the game, you have already given them access to your HD. > > > > > > > > > > They cant legally snoop your pc for your information... bank accounts, cc numbers etc.. but.. as a part of the software (as with most software these days) they can gather information reliant to the game and making sure it runs correctly on your system, i am sure there is a section in the EULA about agreeing to a listing of processes running on your pc for diagnostic use or something pretty close. > > > > > > > > > > Most software EULA's has this and a section that by running said program, you agree not to sue them in case of damages etc.. blah blah.. you know the drill. > > > > > > > > > > I didn't mean they could wipe your HD etc for cheating.. but they can snoop simple things such as processes lists if it pertains to diagnostics. > > > > > > > > Well, you said "everything" and that was going on a bit not just by you, and I was wondering where that went. And them updating the game is a necessary thing to even be able to play the game. They may install updates. it doesn't mean they can install anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh and btw.... i think that is covered under montoring > > > > > > > > > > 7. PRIVACY AND DATA PROTECTION > > > > > It is Your responsibility to read, understand and accept the Privacy Policy in effect in connection with Your use of the Service. You acknowledge that ArenaNet may make changes to the Privacy Policy at any time. You also acknowledge that each and every time You click “I ACCEPT” You warrant and represent that You did read, understand and accept the most recent version of the Privacy Policy in effect at that time. > > > > > ArenaNet has no obligation under any circumstances to review any information, feedback or communication related to the Game. ArenaNet may, in its reasonable discretion, choose to review any information, feedback or communication **related to the Game**. ArenaNet may take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on any information, feedback or communication **related to the Game**, including but not limited to publicly commenting upon or publishing the foregoing. ArenaNet has no obligation to explain any decision to take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on any information, feedback or communication related to the Game. **You acknowledge, and further agree, that You have no obligation to provide ArenaNet any information, feedback or communications **related to the Game.** In addition to the provisions of Section 13 below, You further agree to defend, indemnify and hold harmless ArenaNet with respect to any claim related to any information, feedback or communications You provide under this Section 7(b). > > > > >ArenaNet has no obligation under any circumstances to monitor Conduct or other activities related to the Game. ArenaNet may **in its reasonable discretion**, choose to monitor Conduct or other activities **related to the Game**.You consent to the foregoing monitoring and acknowledge that ArenaNet may conduct such monitoring, including but not limited to monitoring in-Game communications and Message Boards provided by ArenaNet as well as third-party Message Boards and the like. You also acknowledge that ArenaNet may take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on such monitoring, including but not limited to action under Section 5, and that ArenaNet has no obligation to explain any decision to take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on such monitoring.** > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > Emphasis mine. > > > > > > > > When it comes to the game itself. I agree you have no privacy because you are playing in Arenanet's house. They call the shots and can ban you as they see fit. As a result, they can definitely check my computer to see if I am running a hacking program. But past that, they're in my house. > > > > > > Think you missed this part in section d > > > INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO MONITORING COMMUNICATIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS INTERFACES, STORAGE DEVICES, RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY, OR CPU PROCESSES RELATED TO HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME. SUCH MONITORING MAY ALSO INCLUDE, BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO, MONITORING FOR THE PURPOSES OF DETECTING THE GAME UNDER SECTION 8© or 8(e). YOU CONSENT TO THE FOREGOING MONITORING AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ArenaNet MAY, AT ANY TIME, AND IN ANY MANNER, COMMUNICATE ANY INFORMATION BETWEEN HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME AND ANY MECHANISM ArenaNet MAY CHOOSE FOR SUCH COMMUNICATIONS. > > > > > > they can monitor you at any time and ban you for anything they see fit. This includes monitoring your process list, ram and HD and even the connection to the server... period. > > > > But do they have a right to store keep that in records and then for how long. Privacy laws and especially EU law focus more on the storage and record keeping rather than MONITORING. > > > > GDPR for example focus large parts on pseudonymisation and data breach protection. If it just monitoring in order to determine cheating that is a mostly fine. Its a cost that many players is willing to pay. If they keep permanent records that later can be part of data breaches, without any salt or other protections, then there is a major issue with the method they employ to catch cheaters. > > > > Could you quote the section about data retention from cpu process lists? > > You just quoted your answer. It's the last sentence of the paragraph: > > "YOU CONSENT TO THE FOREGOING MONITORING AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ArenaNet MAY, AT ANY TIME, AND IN ANY MANNER, COMMUNICATE ANY INFORMATION BETWEEN HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME AND ANY MECHANISM ArenaNet MAY CHOOSE FOR SUCH COMMUNICATIONS." How many years is that? 6 months, 1 year, 10 years, 25? Can they sell it? use it for advertisement? Is it pseudonymous stored? Since it require my informed consent I should able to tell what I have consented to. In eu consent has some meaning other than "I agree to blank and thus anything and all is permitted". Even in the US a blank permission is usually not worth that much. A clothes shop usually have some MONITORING that COMMUNICATE INFORMATION BETWEEN HARDWARE through ANY MECHANISM they CHOOSE. By entering such shop, do you consent to them uploading images from the changing room to porn sites? Does the word MONITORING convey such informed consent? Hopefully they deleted the records but this is something anet should confirm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Nightlark.4029" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Nightlark.4029" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > Ok... step up..the _wrongly accused_ and make your plea.. > > > > > > > > > > So .. Cheat-Engine, used to cheat at GW2, can also be used to modify Single Player Games, but has _other uses_ well.. ok, explain to me what _Other_ Legitimate Use anyone would have to have this programming running in the background on their personal computer, for _significant amount of hours across a multi-week time period_ , while playing GW2. > > > > > > > > > > I'll give you all a chance to change my mind that you're not filthy cheaters. > > > > I've already explained other uses _multiple times_, and why it could be left running in the background (in the middle of a project debugging another program, much lower friction to just leave it running in the background than to close everything and spend 5-10 minutes getting back to where you left off). Fine, choose to be ignorant, just kill me already. > > > > > > > > Though I guess I don't fall into the _wrongly accused_ category (considering I haven't been banned), so maybe that's why what I'm saying falls on deaf ears. > > > > > > So, tell me, why would someone be doing project debugging on their _home computer_ for _substantial amounts of hours across a multi-week time frame_ while playing GW2 at the same time? > > > > > > I mean, while if it was their work computer, (Which is a great way to get fired just FYI) at the very least, this would be a programmer, who, lets be real, knows what this program is commonly used for, so they can't feign ignorance of what they are using, and secondly, a programmer would read the EULA, as they often work by them. > > > > > > You know, I'd believe you, if it was a one time thing, but this was for a _substantial amount of hours across a multi-week time frame_. > > > > > > So, nahh.. not going to buy that _project debugging_ line. > > > > > > Care to try again,.. maybe this time with something remotely believable? > > > > > > also, if you haven't been vacationed.. then you are an enabler, which to be honest, is worse then a cheater. > > > > All I can say is.. wow... seriously, I'm rather hurt that you're calling me worse than a cheater and a liar, when I've explained multiple times why a program like CE might be open for days at a time -- ever heard of side/personal projects? Or freelancers whose home computer is also their work computer? I have a program open in IDA right now that I've been working on reverse engineering for **years** just for the fun of it and the learning experience (personal projects helped with getting my current job), and IDA has been open for the the past _two weeks_. The same thing happens sometimes with having a program open in a debugger -- when I get home from work I want to _get stuff done_ and be able to pick up where I left off in the middle of a function instead of spending time getting back to where I was the other day. It is up to you if you want to buy it or not, but it is the truth -- I know that, and if you don't want to believe it, well, nothing I can say will make you.. just kill me and don't bother replying, because I doubt you've worked on a reverse engineering project for fun, and probably never will -- which is why you will continue to find it unbelievable. > > First, I never called you a liar, and I am insulted that you have said that lie about me. > > Second: Yes, enablers are far worse then cheaters, as at least a cheater knows and understands what they are doing is wrong, that they are breaking the rules by cheating, and will get punished if caught, where an enabler tries to justify the actions of the cheater as not being wrong. > > Finally: If you want to enable cheaters and hack programs in the games you play, I can will at least respect that is what you want, and wish you good luck and good fortune in finding a game where you can play freely with them, but, I don't want it to be this game. > > Good day. You said that he was worse than a cheater. You said that you did not believe his claims. You further said that his claims were not remotely believable. The combination of these things does read as calling him worse than a cheater and a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyShroud.2865 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 A programmer would read EULA. Lmao. Putting words into others mouth is really bad, you know? Go find 1000 programmers that game and ask them how many of them read EULA or TOS. Many of the arguments are really absurd, I wonder how people can put up to those nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faaris.8013 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 > @"Rajani Isa.6294" said: > So you are saying checking what processes are running is beyond what is needed for anti-cheat software? No, I never said that. I said sending all data about running processes to Anet's servers instead of checking them locally is beyond what is needed for anti-cheat software. > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"GreyWolf.8670" said: > > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > > > > The point is that you are not bound to the EULA or any other agreement if you were not shown it and agreed to it before buying the game (in Germany). When I go to the Anet webpage and purchase GW2, then get the download link and install the game, it's already too late for the EULA. > > > > > > > No. You must agree to the EULA when you create your account **before** can you buy the game from ArenaNet **or** play it. > > Exactly. I haven't seen ANY MMO where you don't click on agreement at SOME point and if you don't, you don't get access to the game ... EVEN in Germany. This doesn't matter: >Dass der Nutzer die Taste „Ich bin mit den Lizenzbestimmungen einverstanden“ angeklickt hat, ist in der Regel folgenlos, da der Nutzer sich diesem Prozedere nur deshalb unterwirft, weil er anders die Software nicht installieren kann. http://www.damm-legal.de/09-lizenzvertrag-eula roughly translates to: That the user had to click the button "I agree to the licensing terms" is generally without consequences, since the user only follows this procedure because otherwise, the software cannot be installed. That might be confusing for many, but it's how the law works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haleydawn.3764 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 > @"Faaris.8013" said: > http://www.kitten-legal.de/09-lizenzvertrag-eula Kitten. Legal. Kitten-izer is being overzealous again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faaris.8013 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 > @"Haleydawn.3764" said: > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > http://www.kitten-legal.de/09-lizenzvertrag-eula > > > Kitten. Legal. Kitten-izer is being overzealous again! omg this is so stupid lol. The forum engine censors the URL because the lawyer's name is Dr. D a m m, and his webpage can be found under "d a m m-legal". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leablo.2651 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 > @"morrolan.9608" said: > > @"Tinnel.4369" said: > > Not going to read all of this, but have a question about a general trend I see. > > > > Is there evidence ANet banned for simply having the software and not interacting it with gw2 beyond the hearsay of the banned? > > > > It keeps getting said that this is what they did when their statement specified tampering with the game. > > > > Evidence of the contrary? > > Their statement specifically mentions being banned for merely running one of the programs while GW2 was running, there is no reference to the spyware checking if there was interaction between GW2 and the program, likely because the spyware was pretty basic. Well, checking not just what other processes are running, but how they are interacting with other processes is even more intrusive as it requires examination of the data passing between them. So if people are complaining that this was already an invasion of privacy, they should not also be asking for deeper examination to verify cheating as those are contradictory aims. I wouldn't accuse the spyware of being "basic" as much as it was intentionally just intrusive enough to get the job done. At this point in the history of internet games, it should be common knowledge that if you don't want to get busted for cheating, you should not run any cheating programs while playing online games regardless of whether you cheat in them or not. This methodology is more or less how Valve does VAC bans and those are not only permanent but are also displayed on your Steam profile. So it's suspicious whenever someone claims to be running a cheat program but not actually cheating. Every cheater knows you don't just leave your cheat programs running in the background because of this. But if you believed that you wouldn't get caught (as would be the case for a game that runs for 5 years without cheat detection bans) then you would run the cheat programs to cheat, after all that's what they're for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miellyn.6847 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 > @"Faaris.8013" said: > >Dass der Nutzer die Taste „Ich bin mit den Lizenzbestimmungen einverstanden“ angeklickt hat, ist in der Regel folgenlos, da der Nutzer sich diesem Prozedere nur deshalb unterwirft, weil er anders die Software nicht installieren kann. > > http://www.kitten-legal.de/09-lizenzvertrag-eula > > roughly translates to: That the user had to click the button "I agree to the licensing terms" is generally without consequences, since the user only follows this procedure because otherwise, the software cannot be installed. > > That might be confusing for many, but it's how the law works. No that's not how the law in germany works. EULA can be enforced if you know the contents before you buy it. Your part only applies if you see the EULA after you bought it but during the installation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokk.2397 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Your playing Guild wars 2. That means you agreed to the Users agreement.Ethical or not, it's a binding agreement under the law.The law is not ethical or moral and under the law when you clicked (basically a electronic signature) you agreed to the Licensing agreement.Saying you didn't read it or you didn't know ,under the law , is not an argument for litigation. Also the licensing agreement is posted on the ANET web site and can be read prior to purchasing. So the EULA can be enforced in any country .It's called " due diligence" and its up to the person to inform themselves about any limitations and agreements prior to purchase. Possession is 9/10 of the law .You have possession of these programs running at the same time GW2 was running then it's very good chance that you use them to gain advantage in the game, ergo you were cheating.That is how the law will see it . So quit whining about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faaris.8013 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 > @"Mokk.2397" said: > Your playing Guild wars 2. That means you agreed to the Users agreement.Ethical or not, it's a binding agreement under the law.The law is not ethical or moral and under the law when you clicked (basically a electronic signature) you agreed to the Licensing agreement.Saying you didn't read it or you didn't know ,under the law , is not an argument for litigation. Also the licensing agreement is posted on the ANET web site and can be read prior to purchasing. So the EULA can be enforced in any country .It's called " due diligence" and its up to the person to inform themselves about any limitations and agreements prior to purchase. Possession is 9/10 of the law .You have possession of these programs running at the same time GW2 was running then it's very good chance that you use them to gain advantage in the game, ergo you were cheating.That is how the law will see it . So quit whining about it. At the end of the day, it's a court that decides which points of such an agreement are binding and how they are interpreted in regards to real law. Funny example from just today: The European Court of Justice has decided that the churches in Germany are not allowed to discriminate applicants that are not members of that church for all positions in general. Since the beginning of time you could only get a position in their organisation if you were a member of the church. The job offer in the case clearly stated that you must be a member of that church to apply. The women was not a member but applied anyway and got rejected because she was not a member. The argument of many here on these forums would be "well, the employer sets the rules, you agreed to follow these rules when you applied, so the employer is in the right to reject your application". Court said nay, despite there being a very long tradition of this kind of discrimination and nobody ever before sued. Most people just accepted this rule and simply didn't apply if they were not a member, and those who got rejected didn't bother to go to court. Until that women did :) As long as nobody here bothers to start a years long court battle with Anet, I don't think we'll ever agree to how the point about "monitoring" would be interpreted in regards to real law. Many companies invent EULAs with stuff in it that would be or were already destroyed in court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason.5983 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > Well, to all the players that are taking a stand against this, and plan to leave the game, for whatever reasons. I hope you and the cheaters you are standing with, find a nice game that you can all play together, without anyone imposing any rules or regulations on you and how you want to play the game. > > > > Don't all games have game rules? > > You would think.. but after reading this topic, I have seen that some players get upset when those rules get enforced, so, to all of them, both the cheaters and the enables, I hope they find a wonderful game to play together.. that is not this one. "Enablers". It's troubling that you would insinuate that. By your own logic, at the other end of the spectrum, you could be called an enabler of unethical privacy intrusions. Sound fair? No? I didn't think so. I'm quite sure you will try to defend your argument by saying it's not unethical, but that would be a moot point amongst this article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 > @"Jason.5983" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > Well, to all the players that are taking a stand against this, and plan to leave the game, for whatever reasons. I hope you and the cheaters you are standing with, find a nice game that you can all play together, without anyone imposing any rules or regulations on you and how you want to play the game. > > > > > > Don't all games have game rules? > > > > You would think.. but after reading this topic, I have seen that some players get upset when those rules get enforced, so, to all of them, both the cheaters and the enables, I hope they find a wonderful game to play together.. that is not this one. > > "Enablers". It's troubling that you would insinuate that. By your own logic, at the other end of the spectrum, you could be called an enabler of unethical privacy intrusions. Sound fair? No? I didn't think so. You signed a contract saying you allow them to do this... explain to me how it's unethical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Nightlark.4029" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"Nightlark.4029" said: > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > Ok... step up..the _wrongly accused_ and make your plea.. > > > > > > > > > > > > So .. Cheat-Engine, used to cheat at GW2, can also be used to modify Single Player Games, but has _other uses_ well.. ok, explain to me what _Other_ Legitimate Use anyone would have to have this programming running in the background on their personal computer, for _significant amount of hours across a multi-week time period_ , while playing GW2. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll give you all a chance to change my mind that you're not filthy cheaters. > > > > > I've already explained other uses _multiple times_, and why it could be left running in the background (in the middle of a project debugging another program, much lower friction to just leave it running in the background than to close everything and spend 5-10 minutes getting back to where you left off). Fine, choose to be ignorant, just kill me already. > > > > > > > > > > Though I guess I don't fall into the _wrongly accused_ category (considering I haven't been banned), so maybe that's why what I'm saying falls on deaf ears. > > > > > > > > So, tell me, why would someone be doing project debugging on their _home computer_ for _substantial amounts of hours across a multi-week time frame_ while playing GW2 at the same time? > > > > > > > > I mean, while if it was their work computer, (Which is a great way to get fired just FYI) at the very least, this would be a programmer, who, lets be real, knows what this program is commonly used for, so they can't feign ignorance of what they are using, and secondly, a programmer would read the EULA, as they often work by them. > > > > > > > > You know, I'd believe you, if it was a one time thing, but this was for a _substantial amount of hours across a multi-week time frame_. > > > > > > > > So, nahh.. not going to buy that _project debugging_ line. > > > > > > > > Care to try again,.. maybe this time with something remotely believable? > > > > > > > > also, if you haven't been vacationed.. then you are an enabler, which to be honest, is worse then a cheater. > > > > > > All I can say is.. wow... seriously, I'm rather hurt that you're calling me worse than a cheater and a liar, when I've explained multiple times why a program like CE might be open for days at a time -- ever heard of side/personal projects? Or freelancers whose home computer is also their work computer? I have a program open in IDA right now that I've been working on reverse engineering for **years** just for the fun of it and the learning experience (personal projects helped with getting my current job), and IDA has been open for the the past _two weeks_. The same thing happens sometimes with having a program open in a debugger -- when I get home from work I want to _get stuff done_ and be able to pick up where I left off in the middle of a function instead of spending time getting back to where I was the other day. It is up to you if you want to buy it or not, but it is the truth -- I know that, and if you don't want to believe it, well, nothing I can say will make you.. just kill me and don't bother replying, because I doubt you've worked on a reverse engineering project for fun, and probably never will -- which is why you will continue to find it unbelievable. > > > > First, I never called you a liar, and I am insulted that you have said that lie about me. > > > > Second: Yes, enablers are far worse then cheaters, as at least a cheater knows and understands what they are doing is wrong, that they are breaking the rules by cheating, and will get punished if caught, where an enabler tries to justify the actions of the cheater as not being wrong. > > > > Finally: If you want to enable cheaters and hack programs in the games you play, I can will at least respect that is what you want, and wish you good luck and good fortune in finding a game where you can play freely with them, but, I don't want it to be this game. > > > > Good day. > > > You said that he was worse than a cheater. > > You said that you did not believe his claims. You further said that his claims were not remotely believable. > > The combination of these things does read as calling him worse than a cheater and a liar. Their claim is beyond ridiculous, in fact it is so audacious, I am insulted that they expect me to believe it. I mean, really, CheatEngine is not even considered a top level debugging program among the **free** debugging programs out there, and they expect someone to believe that a professional freelance programmer is going to use this program to do actual work.. really... how stupid do they think people are, and anyone that would believe that.. simply validates their contempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laila Lightness.8742 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Too those who think eula and tos dont apply wouldnt that mean suspending is the real breaking of law and chats and hacks is allowed (not my opinion those who argue eula and tos has no legal and ) if you dont read the terms and click agree they should not complain if you had you would had known no excuses for if it was optional too agree to play then it would not be any cheaters for then it would have no rules. I noticed many seem too think cheating is ok and many who think its not. So can people please move on this looks more like a childrens playground right now it happend we can not change the past. but most of that info is not private for privacy online is a illusion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightlark.4029 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Nightlark.4029" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > @"Nightlark.4029" said: > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > Ok... step up..the _wrongly accused_ and make your plea.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So .. Cheat-Engine, used to cheat at GW2, can also be used to modify Single Player Games, but has _other uses_ well.. ok, explain to me what _Other_ Legitimate Use anyone would have to have this programming running in the background on their personal computer, for _significant amount of hours across a multi-week time period_ , while playing GW2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll give you all a chance to change my mind that you're not filthy cheaters. > > > > > > I've already explained other uses _multiple times_, and why it could be left running in the background (in the middle of a project debugging another program, much lower friction to just leave it running in the background than to close everything and spend 5-10 minutes getting back to where you left off). Fine, choose to be ignorant, just kill me already. > > > > > > > > > > > > Though I guess I don't fall into the _wrongly accused_ category (considering I haven't been banned), so maybe that's why what I'm saying falls on deaf ears. > > > > > > > > > > So, tell me, why would someone be doing project debugging on their _home computer_ for _substantial amounts of hours across a multi-week time frame_ while playing GW2 at the same time? > > > > > > > > > > I mean, while if it was their work computer, (Which is a great way to get fired just FYI) at the very least, this would be a programmer, who, lets be real, knows what this program is commonly used for, so they can't feign ignorance of what they are using, and secondly, a programmer would read the EULA, as they often work by them. > > > > > > > > > > You know, I'd believe you, if it was a one time thing, but this was for a _substantial amount of hours across a multi-week time frame_. > > > > > > > > > > So, nahh.. not going to buy that _project debugging_ line. > > > > > > > > > > Care to try again,.. maybe this time with something remotely believable? > > > > > > > > > > also, if you haven't been vacationed.. then you are an enabler, which to be honest, is worse then a cheater. > > > > > > > > All I can say is.. wow... seriously, I'm rather hurt that you're calling me worse than a cheater and a liar, when I've explained multiple times why a program like CE might be open for days at a time -- ever heard of side/personal projects? Or freelancers whose home computer is also their work computer? I have a program open in IDA right now that I've been working on reverse engineering for **years** just for the fun of it and the learning experience (personal projects helped with getting my current job), and IDA has been open for the the past _two weeks_. The same thing happens sometimes with having a program open in a debugger -- when I get home from work I want to _get stuff done_ and be able to pick up where I left off in the middle of a function instead of spending time getting back to where I was the other day. It is up to you if you want to buy it or not, but it is the truth -- I know that, and if you don't want to believe it, well, nothing I can say will make you.. just kill me and don't bother replying, because I doubt you've worked on a reverse engineering project for fun, and probably never will -- which is why you will continue to find it unbelievable. > > > > > > First, I never called you a liar, and I am insulted that you have said that lie about me. > > > > > > Second: Yes, enablers are far worse then cheaters, as at least a cheater knows and understands what they are doing is wrong, that they are breaking the rules by cheating, and will get punished if caught, where an enabler tries to justify the actions of the cheater as not being wrong. > > > > > > Finally: If you want to enable cheaters and hack programs in the games you play, I can will at least respect that is what you want, and wish you good luck and good fortune in finding a game where you can play freely with them, but, I don't want it to be this game. > > > > > > Good day. > > > > > > You said that he was worse than a cheater. > > > > You said that you did not believe his claims. You further said that his claims were not remotely believable. > > > > The combination of these things does read as calling him worse than a cheater and a liar. > > Their claim is beyond ridiculous, in fact it is so audacious, I am insulted that they expect me to believe it. I mean, really, CheatEngine is not even considered a top level debugging program among the **free** debugging programs out there, and they expect someone to believe that a professional freelance programmer is going to use this program to do actual work.. really... how stupid do they think people are, and anyone that would believe that.. simply validates their contempt. Wow. I tried to de-escalate, and you continue on this... I don’t know what to call it. You're right that it wouldn't be the main debugger someone uses, but it is still something they could have in their toolbelt for its convenience (eg search). I’m sorry you don’t believe me, at least apologize for continuing to say I’m not telling the truth about it being useful for non-cheating uses and lets just cut the argument here and now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zedek.8932 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 I know that's a bit off-topic, but searching for that particular question is awful (or I just can't find the right words for the search query), but I assume you can give your program's processes your own name. What if you use a common Windows service/task name, such as SVCHOST or such? If it really just and only looks up the name of them, any cheat engine could simply hide like that amongst all the other Windows services. There must be more to that detection than just asking the operating system to hand out a very superficial list of current services and tasks? Excelsior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 > @"Nightlark.4029" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"Nightlark.4029" said: > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > @"Nightlark.4029" said: > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > Ok... step up..the _wrongly accused_ and make your plea.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So .. Cheat-Engine, used to cheat at GW2, can also be used to modify Single Player Games, but has _other uses_ well.. ok, explain to me what _Other_ Legitimate Use anyone would have to have this programming running in the background on their personal computer, for _significant amount of hours across a multi-week time period_ , while playing GW2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll give you all a chance to change my mind that you're not filthy cheaters. > > > > > > > I've already explained other uses _multiple times_, and why it could be left running in the background (in the middle of a project debugging another program, much lower friction to just leave it running in the background than to close everything and spend 5-10 minutes getting back to where you left off). Fine, choose to be ignorant, just kill me already. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Though I guess I don't fall into the _wrongly accused_ category (considering I haven't been banned), so maybe that's why what I'm saying falls on deaf ears. > > > > > > > > > > > > So, tell me, why would someone be doing project debugging on their _home computer_ for _substantial amounts of hours across a multi-week time frame_ while playing GW2 at the same time? > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, while if it was their work computer, (Which is a great way to get fired just FYI) at the very least, this would be a programmer, who, lets be real, knows what this program is commonly used for, so they can't feign ignorance of what they are using, and secondly, a programmer would read the EULA, as they often work by them. > > > > > > > > > > > > You know, I'd believe you, if it was a one time thing, but this was for a _substantial amount of hours across a multi-week time frame_. > > > > > > > > > > > > So, nahh.. not going to buy that _project debugging_ line. > > > > > > > > > > > > Care to try again,.. maybe this time with something remotely believable? > > > > > > > > > > > > also, if you haven't been vacationed.. then you are an enabler, which to be honest, is worse then a cheater. > > > > > > > > > > All I can say is.. wow... seriously, I'm rather hurt that you're calling me worse than a cheater and a liar, when I've explained multiple times why a program like CE might be open for days at a time -- ever heard of side/personal projects? Or freelancers whose home computer is also their work computer? I have a program open in IDA right now that I've been working on reverse engineering for **years** just for the fun of it and the learning experience (personal projects helped with getting my current job), and IDA has been open for the the past _two weeks_. The same thing happens sometimes with having a program open in a debugger -- when I get home from work I want to _get stuff done_ and be able to pick up where I left off in the middle of a function instead of spending time getting back to where I was the other day. It is up to you if you want to buy it or not, but it is the truth -- I know that, and if you don't want to believe it, well, nothing I can say will make you.. just kill me and don't bother replying, because I doubt you've worked on a reverse engineering project for fun, and probably never will -- which is why you will continue to find it unbelievable. > > > > > > > > First, I never called you a liar, and I am insulted that you have said that lie about me. > > > > > > > > Second: Yes, enablers are far worse then cheaters, as at least a cheater knows and understands what they are doing is wrong, that they are breaking the rules by cheating, and will get punished if caught, where an enabler tries to justify the actions of the cheater as not being wrong. > > > > > > > > Finally: If you want to enable cheaters and hack programs in the games you play, I can will at least respect that is what you want, and wish you good luck and good fortune in finding a game where you can play freely with them, but, I don't want it to be this game. > > > > > > > > Good day. > > > > > > > > > You said that he was worse than a cheater. > > > > > > You said that you did not believe his claims. You further said that his claims were not remotely believable. > > > > > > The combination of these things does read as calling him worse than a cheater and a liar. > > > > Their claim is beyond ridiculous, in fact it is so audacious, I am insulted that they expect me to believe it. I mean, really, CheatEngine is not even considered a top level debugging program among the **free** debugging programs out there, and they expect someone to believe that a professional freelance programmer is going to use this program to do actual work.. really... how stupid do they think people are, and anyone that would believe that.. simply validates their contempt. > > Wow. I tried to de-escalate, and you continue on this... I don’t know what to call it. You're right that it wouldn't be the main debugger someone uses, but it is still something they could have in their toolbelt for its convenience. I’m sorry you don’t believe me, at least apologize for continuing to say I’m not telling the truth about it being useful for non-cheating uses and lets just cut the argument here and now. Oh come off it, we both know it's a sub par de-bug program that no one who was serious about programming would use for that purpose, and there is no way they depend upon it to keep it running for substantial amount of hours during a multi-week time frame. At this point you are downright belittling the intelligent of anyone on this forum with even trying to use that excuse, and this clearly explains why Anet does not want to bother to hear this tripe either, as they have professional programmers on staff that would, no doubt snort laugh at the ostentatiousness of using this as an excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightlark.4029 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 > @"Zedek.8932" said: > I know that's a bit off-topic, but searching for that particular question is awful (or I just can't find the right words for the search query), but I assume you can give your program's processes your own name. What if you use a common Windows service/task name, such as SVCHOST or such? If it really just and only looks up the name of them, any cheat engine could simply hide like that amongst all the other Windows services. There must be more to that detection than just asking the operating system to hand out a very superficial list of current services and tasks? > > Excelsior. It takes the file on disk that was used to create a process and creates a hash of the contents that is used for the detection. --- > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Nightlark.4029" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > @"Nightlark.4029" said: > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > @"Nightlark.4029" said: > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > Ok... step up..the _wrongly accused_ and make your plea.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So .. Cheat-Engine, used to cheat at GW2, can also be used to modify Single Player Games, but has _other uses_ well.. ok, explain to me what _Other_ Legitimate Use anyone would have to have this programming running in the background on their personal computer, for _significant amount of hours across a multi-week time period_ , while playing GW2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll give you all a chance to change my mind that you're not filthy cheaters. > > > > > > > > I've already explained other uses _multiple times_, and why it could be left running in the background (in the middle of a project debugging another program, much lower friction to just leave it running in the background than to close everything and spend 5-10 minutes getting back to where you left off). Fine, choose to be ignorant, just kill me already. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Though I guess I don't fall into the _wrongly accused_ category (considering I haven't been banned), so maybe that's why what I'm saying falls on deaf ears. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, tell me, why would someone be doing project debugging on their _home computer_ for _substantial amounts of hours across a multi-week time frame_ while playing GW2 at the same time? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, while if it was their work computer, (Which is a great way to get fired just FYI) at the very least, this would be a programmer, who, lets be real, knows what this program is commonly used for, so they can't feign ignorance of what they are using, and secondly, a programmer would read the EULA, as they often work by them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know, I'd believe you, if it was a one time thing, but this was for a _substantial amount of hours across a multi-week time frame_. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, nahh.. not going to buy that _project debugging_ line. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Care to try again,.. maybe this time with something remotely believable? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > also, if you haven't been vacationed.. then you are an enabler, which to be honest, is worse then a cheater. > > > > > > > > > > > > All I can say is.. wow... seriously, I'm rather hurt that you're calling me worse than a cheater and a liar, when I've explained multiple times why a program like CE might be open for days at a time -- ever heard of side/personal projects? Or freelancers whose home computer is also their work computer? I have a program open in IDA right now that I've been working on reverse engineering for **years** just for the fun of it and the learning experience (personal projects helped with getting my current job), and IDA has been open for the the past _two weeks_. The same thing happens sometimes with having a program open in a debugger -- when I get home from work I want to _get stuff done_ and be able to pick up where I left off in the middle of a function instead of spending time getting back to where I was the other day. It is up to you if you want to buy it or not, but it is the truth -- I know that, and if you don't want to believe it, well, nothing I can say will make you.. just kill me and don't bother replying, because I doubt you've worked on a reverse engineering project for fun, and probably never will -- which is why you will continue to find it unbelievable. > > > > > > > > > > First, I never called you a liar, and I am insulted that you have said that lie about me. > > > > > > > > > > Second: Yes, enablers are far worse then cheaters, as at least a cheater knows and understands what they are doing is wrong, that they are breaking the rules by cheating, and will get punished if caught, where an enabler tries to justify the actions of the cheater as not being wrong. > > > > > > > > > > Finally: If you want to enable cheaters and hack programs in the games you play, I can will at least respect that is what you want, and wish you good luck and good fortune in finding a game where you can play freely with them, but, I don't want it to be this game. > > > > > > > > > > Good day. > > > > > > > > > > > > You said that he was worse than a cheater. > > > > > > > > You said that you did not believe his claims. You further said that his claims were not remotely believable. > > > > > > > > The combination of these things does read as calling him worse than a cheater and a liar. > > > > > > Their claim is beyond ridiculous, in fact it is so audacious, I am insulted that they expect me to believe it. I mean, really, CheatEngine is not even considered a top level debugging program among the **free** debugging programs out there, and they expect someone to believe that a professional freelance programmer is going to use this program to do actual work.. really... how stupid do they think people are, and anyone that would believe that.. simply validates their contempt. > > > > Wow. I tried to de-escalate, and you continue on this... I don’t know what to call it. You're right that it wouldn't be the main debugger someone uses, but it is still something they could have in their toolbelt for its convenience. I’m sorry you don’t believe me, at least apologize for continuing to say I’m not telling the truth about it being useful for non-cheating uses and lets just cut the argument here and now. > > Oh come off it, we both know it's a sub par de-bug program that no one who was serious about programming would use for that purpose, and there is no way they depend upon it to keep it running for substantial amount of hours during a multi-week time frame. Indeed, it is _unlikely_ to be used for serious debugging (esp. considering it crashes more frequently than other debuggers), but leaving tools running in the background for long periods of time when not in use is certainly possible. > At this point you are downright belittling the intelligent of anyone on this forum with even trying to use that excuse, and this clearly explains why Anet does not want to bother to hear this tripe either, as they have professional programmers on staff that would, no doubt snort laugh at the ostentatiousness of using this as an excuse. This conversation is devolving into base insults on both sides. I'm sorry you feel that way. I forgive you for anything you've said that I've found offensive or insulting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maikimaik.1974 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 People are shocked that they're not supposed to run cheat engines in the background while playing an online game? I don't know about you, but that seems pretty obvious to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susy.7529 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Jason.5983" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"FrizzFreston.5290" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > Well, to all the players that are taking a stand against this, and plan to leave the game, for whatever reasons. I hope you and the cheaters you are standing with, find a nice game that you can all play together, without anyone imposing any rules or regulations on you and how you want to play the game. > > > > > > > > Don't all games have game rules? > > > > > > You would think.. but after reading this topic, I have seen that some players get upset when those rules get enforced, so, to all of them, both the cheaters and the enables, I hope they find a wonderful game to play together.. that is not this one. > > > > "Enablers". It's troubling that you would insinuate that. By your own logic, at the other end of the spectrum, you could be called an enabler of unethical privacy intrusions. Sound fair? No? I didn't think so. > > You signed a contract saying you allow them to do this... explain to me how it's unethical? If you sign a contract you do that for the overall benefits it offers (aka playing the game you like in this case). It doesn't always mean that you agree on every single points of that contract, it just means you believe that benefits are greater than disadvantages (aka the points you consider unfair/unethical). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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