FitzChevalerie.1035 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > @"FitzChevalerie.1035" said: > > > @"Nezekan.2671" said: > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > @"Nezekan.2671" said: > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > @"Nezekan.2671" said: > > > > > > > > @"innocens.1582" said: > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" > > > > > > > > as i understand cheat engind is also used for debugging and reverse engenering. > > > > > > > > still, why have it running along side guildwars? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i read onw statement that it was used for reverse engenering things like virusses. > > > > > > > > Now wouldnt you do that in a virtual machine? I know i would. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My cheat engine's last modified date is " 18/05/2017" which now that I think about it, is the last time I used it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure if I'm banned because of cheat engine, its because of its mere existence, and not because I used it when GW2 was open, because I did not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The friend I mentioned earlier also confirmed he had cheat engine installed but he has not used it for even longer time than I, which further confirms my suspicion. So the part in Gaile Gray post which says "we detected that the accounts were running Guild Wars 2 at the same time as one or more of the following programs over a significant number of hours during a multi-week" is a an utter and blatant lie. They just did an automated ban and did not care about consequences of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ermm didn't you say your "friend" was completely beyond any kind of ability to find, install and use such stuff.. isn't that why you had to install others 3rd party progs for him/her. But here you are now telling us he has/does so what was it being used for, lets get this out in the open cos surely someone capable of using things like cheat engine for those ooh so virtuous totally legit applications of it must surely be capable of installing something like taco and learning how to use it all by themselves.. nah sorry I smell a big rat in the room somewhere. > > > > > > > > > > People look for things online and install them. He wasn't able to figure it out, but he just left it there. I have a lot of unused apps, and so do many people. The fact that he is banned shows the bans are given due to mere existence of these programs, and not using them. Cheat engine has so many broad uses, but those other apps are rather very specificly used to cheat in GW2. > > > > > > > > > > Instead of looking at the big picture that people are banned for mere existence of an application in their PC, you are trying to create a story and see it they way you want to see it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No.. your the one making the claim that you and your "friend" have cheat engine and other 3rd party apps loaded up.. if someone is not capable of using such stuff.. by your own admission.. then why would you be using something like cheat engine in the first place.. surely if your capable of using it for something legit then why say they are incapable of understanding how to find, install and use such programs.. please enlighten us why you have both got it installed and what legit purposes you use it for that are so low in the intelligence stakes that a simpleton can use it.. I am genuinely interested because as I said it was you who made the statement.. now you have opened the can of words its only fair you feed us if you want to taken seriously otherwise I call foul and smokescreens ahoy! > > > > > > You keep assuming he used it, he did not. Installing something is very easy, its a process of spamming next and waiting for it to finish. Which is why I'm telling you people are banned for having the app installed in their PC, not because they necessarily used it in same time with GW2, which is even more horrendous. Are you doubting his intentions? I didn't care to ask, because its not my concern. If people want to cheat in single player games, its their own business and no one else's. Perhaps he wanted to learn to do so, or any other reason. The only relevant information here is the fact that he never used it with GW2, which means ANET is currently lying, after lying previously. > > > > > > As for me, I can provide an screenshot showing the last date I used cheat engine was in 5th month of 2017. I never used cheat engine with GW2 and I'm banned, this is the only thing that concerns me. > > > > I got CE installed and use it semi regularly, not at the same time I'm running gw though. Didn't get banned. You didn't get banned "just for having CE on your PC" > > ANET literally said this is why people were suspended you should uninstall it if you care about your account > > > 1516 accounts were suspended because we detected that the accounts were running Guild Wars 2 at the same time as one or more of the following programs I care about my account but don't see a reason to uninstall o.o Do you know what at the same time means ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"FitzChevalerie.1035" said: > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > @"FitzChevalerie.1035" said: > > > > @"Nezekan.2671" said: > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > @"Nezekan.2671" said: > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > @"Nezekan.2671" said: > > > > > > > > > @"innocens.1582" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" > > > > > > > > > as i understand cheat engind is also used for debugging and reverse engenering. > > > > > > > > > still, why have it running along side guildwars? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i read onw statement that it was used for reverse engenering things like virusses. > > > > > > > > > Now wouldnt you do that in a virtual machine? I know i would. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My cheat engine's last modified date is " 18/05/2017" which now that I think about it, is the last time I used it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure if I'm banned because of cheat engine, its because of its mere existence, and not because I used it when GW2 was open, because I did not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The friend I mentioned earlier also confirmed he had cheat engine installed but he has not used it for even longer time than I, which further confirms my suspicion. So the part in Gaile Gray post which says "we detected that the accounts were running Guild Wars 2 at the same time as one or more of the following programs over a significant number of hours during a multi-week" is a an utter and blatant lie. They just did an automated ban and did not care about consequences of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ermm didn't you say your "friend" was completely beyond any kind of ability to find, install and use such stuff.. isn't that why you had to install others 3rd party progs for him/her. But here you are now telling us he has/does so what was it being used for, lets get this out in the open cos surely someone capable of using things like cheat engine for those ooh so virtuous totally legit applications of it must surely be capable of installing something like taco and learning how to use it all by themselves.. nah sorry I smell a big rat in the room somewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > People look for things online and install them. He wasn't able to figure it out, but he just left it there. I have a lot of unused apps, and so do many people. The fact that he is banned shows the bans are given due to mere existence of these programs, and not using them. Cheat engine has so many broad uses, but those other apps are rather very specificly used to cheat in GW2. > > > > > > > > > > > > Instead of looking at the big picture that people are banned for mere existence of an application in their PC, you are trying to create a story and see it they way you want to see it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No.. your the one making the claim that you and your "friend" have cheat engine and other 3rd party apps loaded up.. if someone is not capable of using such stuff.. by your own admission.. then why would you be using something like cheat engine in the first place.. surely if your capable of using it for something legit then why say they are incapable of understanding how to find, install and use such programs.. please enlighten us why you have both got it installed and what legit purposes you use it for that are so low in the intelligence stakes that a simpleton can use it.. I am genuinely interested because as I said it was you who made the statement.. now you have opened the can of words its only fair you feed us if you want to taken seriously otherwise I call foul and smokescreens ahoy! > > > > > > > > You keep assuming he used it, he did not. Installing something is very easy, its a process of spamming next and waiting for it to finish. Which is why I'm telling you people are banned for having the app installed in their PC, not because they necessarily used it in same time with GW2, which is even more horrendous. Are you doubting his intentions? I didn't care to ask, because its not my concern. If people want to cheat in single player games, its their own business and no one else's. Perhaps he wanted to learn to do so, or any other reason. The only relevant information here is the fact that he never used it with GW2, which means ANET is currently lying, after lying previously. > > > > > > > > As for me, I can provide an screenshot showing the last date I used cheat engine was in 5th month of 2017. I never used cheat engine with GW2 and I'm banned, this is the only thing that concerns me. > > > > > > I got CE installed and use it semi regularly, not at the same time I'm running gw though. Didn't get banned. You didn't get banned "just for having CE on your PC" > > > > ANET literally said this is why people were suspended you should uninstall it if you care about your account > > > > > 1516 accounts were suspended because we detected that the accounts were running Guild Wars 2 at the same time as one or more of the following programs > > I care about my account but don't see a reason to uninstall o.o Do you know what at the same time means ? Some people don't ... people want to make it sound like they were banned for just having it installed. They aren't being honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twoodi.5849 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"FitzChevalerie.1035" said: > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > @"FitzChevalerie.1035" said: > > > > @"Nezekan.2671" said: > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > @"Nezekan.2671" said: > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > @"Nezekan.2671" said: > > > > > > > > > @"innocens.1582" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" > > > > > > > > > as i understand cheat engind is also used for debugging and reverse engenering. > > > > > > > > > still, why have it running along side guildwars? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i read onw statement that it was used for reverse engenering things like virusses. > > > > > > > > > Now wouldnt you do that in a virtual machine? I know i would. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My cheat engine's last modified date is " 18/05/2017" which now that I think about it, is the last time I used it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure if I'm banned because of cheat engine, its because of its mere existence, and not because I used it when GW2 was open, because I did not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The friend I mentioned earlier also confirmed he had cheat engine installed but he has not used it for even longer time than I, which further confirms my suspicion. So the part in Gaile Gray post which says "we detected that the accounts were running Guild Wars 2 at the same time as one or more of the following programs over a significant number of hours during a multi-week" is a an utter and blatant lie. They just did an automated ban and did not care about consequences of it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ermm didn't you say your "friend" was completely beyond any kind of ability to find, install and use such stuff.. isn't that why you had to install others 3rd party progs for him/her. But here you are now telling us he has/does so what was it being used for, lets get this out in the open cos surely someone capable of using things like cheat engine for those ooh so virtuous totally legit applications of it must surely be capable of installing something like taco and learning how to use it all by themselves.. nah sorry I smell a big rat in the room somewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > People look for things online and install them. He wasn't able to figure it out, but he just left it there. I have a lot of unused apps, and so do many people. The fact that he is banned shows the bans are given due to mere existence of these programs, and not using them. Cheat engine has so many broad uses, but those other apps are rather very specificly used to cheat in GW2. > > > > > > > > > > > > Instead of looking at the big picture that people are banned for mere existence of an application in their PC, you are trying to create a story and see it they way you want to see it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No.. your the one making the claim that you and your "friend" have cheat engine and other 3rd party apps loaded up.. if someone is not capable of using such stuff.. by your own admission.. then why would you be using something like cheat engine in the first place.. surely if your capable of using it for something legit then why say they are incapable of understanding how to find, install and use such programs.. please enlighten us why you have both got it installed and what legit purposes you use it for that are so low in the intelligence stakes that a simpleton can use it.. I am genuinely interested because as I said it was you who made the statement.. now you have opened the can of words its only fair you feed us if you want to taken seriously otherwise I call foul and smokescreens ahoy! > > > > > > > > You keep assuming he used it, he did not. Installing something is very easy, its a process of spamming next and waiting for it to finish. Which is why I'm telling you people are banned for having the app installed in their PC, not because they necessarily used it in same time with GW2, which is even more horrendous. Are you doubting his intentions? I didn't care to ask, because its not my concern. If people want to cheat in single player games, its their own business and no one else's. Perhaps he wanted to learn to do so, or any other reason. The only relevant information here is the fact that he never used it with GW2, which means ANET is currently lying, after lying previously. > > > > > > > > As for me, I can provide an screenshot showing the last date I used cheat engine was in 5th month of 2017. I never used cheat engine with GW2 and I'm banned, this is the only thing that concerns me. > > > > > > I got CE installed and use it semi regularly, not at the same time I'm running gw though. Didn't get banned. You didn't get banned "just for having CE on your PC" > > > > ANET literally said this is why people were suspended you should uninstall it if you care about your account > > > > > 1516 accounts were suspended because we detected that the accounts were running Guild Wars 2 at the same time as one or more of the following programs > > I care about my account but don't see a reason to uninstall o.o Do you know what at the same time means ? Cheat engine will sometimes leave processes running in the background even after you close it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 I hope Anet does something against chronic account sharers next. Like some people in the top 20 of the achievement leaderboard would not even be in the top 1000 without acc sharing all the time. One week ban for each hour spent account sharing seems fair to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > It couldn't be more clear. There is a list of software that violate the terms of service. Anet caught people running those. Don't run those. As a matter of fact, if you VALUE your playtime, don't run any. The warning was in the terms of service you (likely didn't) read when you start the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The list that was released after people were suspended? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet should just keep their detection on permanently. If Anet updates the list of hashes frequently there is no way for the hack and bot makers to circumvent it. Private hacks will still be a problem, but all the noobs dont make their own stuff. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some of us value our privacy and it would be trivial to bypass. Hence why other companies like blizzard do this locally on the system and will only send out information about the offending items not your entire system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think people are being a little disingenuous here. Are you not aware that not **running** 3rd party software is like ... #1 bad for any online game? So here is the list of 3rd party software is approved for use ... ready? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Done. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you aware that every single player in every single online game ever played runs third party software while playing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's right ... that's a risk THEY take. That doesn't mean they are approved for use. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes every single time every single player logs in to play they are running third party software. > > > > > > > > > > .. and? I don't get your point. Anet determines what violates the terms of service in terms of 3rd party software. Are you just trying to have some academic argument with me? That would be a pointless exercise don't you think? > > > > > > > > The point is that having third party software running on your computer, while playing gw2, is not a violation of the ToS unless that software is being used in a manner proscribed in the ToS. > > > > > > > > I fully believe that the (vast?) majority of those banned likely earned their punishment. But, the argument that running third party software is a violation is wrong. > > > > > > > > To clarify, I completely agree that it is Anet's right to decide to use circumstancial evidence as basis for a ban, but claiming that just having the software is a violation of the ToS is incorrect. > > > > > > I wasn't claiming that just having it was a violation. > > > > My apologies. I meant to type having the software running (as in the earlier sentences within that post). > > Here is my problem with this thinking ... everyone runs 3rd party software ... yet, not everyone is banned. I run iTunes ... but there is a reasonable expectation that iTunes doesn't do the bad things Anet says 3rd party shouldn't do to the game ... and that gives me the confidence that it's safe. > > Now we have people claiming the 'cheatengine' shouldn't have them banned, but I can go to the 'About Cheat Engine' page and read this: > > **Cheat Engine is an open source tool designed to help you with modifying single player games running under window so you can make them harder or easier depending on your preference(e.g: Find that 100hp is too easy, try playing a game with a max of 1 HP)** > > Now, I am by NO means some computer programming guru ... but I would PROBABLY very concerned if I ran this software while playing GW2 ... you know, hints like "modifying games running windows" or "make the easier" or "changing your HP" ... if that doesn't scream hacking, well ... As I said before, I firmly believe that the vast majority of those banned deserve what they got. I hope that Anet, despite claims to the contrary, entertains the possibility of a need for appeals for the likely tiny fraction of those affected who might not have engaged in any illicit activity. But having software with purpose beyond GW2 (software with no function beyond cheating at gw2 is another matter entirely) running on one's computer is not a violation of the ToS. Sure Anet can ban anyway. A ToS violation isnt needed. They could decide that they dont like your zip code and ban every player from your part of the city...but claiming that fiat bans (even if based on justifiable suspicion) are because of ToS violations is incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euryon.9248 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Buy Some Apples.6390" said: > > >someone threw the hammer a bit further this year and sadly everyone who botted or used any other kind of other hack in ~ 3 weeks in march (where I was on vacation >Nosebleed ) is having a 6 months break from the game now. > > >The good news is, we know already what and how they did it. We assume that was their 'yearly purge' that happens literally every year when they start SAB. > > >If you want to be 100% sure that it is 'ok to bot', please wait a few more days, we are taking the needed steps that this will not happen again. But their "detection" is currently not active and you can already go crazy with your bots. We are just adding a few more things to our end. > > >We are updating this thread once we finished the needed changes. > > >Minion goes on! This sickens me (not Apples but the quote he shared). People who actually think it's perfectly fine to deliberately hack and cheat and provide others with the means to do so. What a bunch of heinous immoral asshats, as is anyone who is defending these people. This whole mentality of "it ain't cheating if you don't get caught"/"everyone does it so it's ok"/"winning trumps everything else"/"it's ok to get pleasure out of other people's suffering" is what's wrong with the world today, and people coming out and defending hacking and cheating as a concept absolutely disgusts me. What a bunch of inconsiderate human beings, you are the people who ruin it for everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > @"Buy Some Apples.6390" said: > > > > > > >someone threw the hammer a bit further this year and sadly everyone who botted or used any other kind of other hack in ~ 3 weeks in march (where I was on vacation >Nosebleed ) is having a 6 months break from the game now. > > > > > > >The good news is, we know already what and how they did it. We assume that was their 'yearly purge' that happens literally every year when they start SAB. > > > > > > >If you want to be 100% sure that it is 'ok to bot', please wait a few more days, we are taking the needed steps that this will not happen again. But their "detection" is currently not active and you can already go crazy with your bots. We are just adding a few more things to our end. > > > > > > >We are updating this thread once we finished the needed changes. > > > > > > >Minion goes on! > > > > > > Looks like the hackers and botters arent really phased by this. > > > But one things looks certain, the hacker devs are way more active than anet devs when it comes to developing! > > > > > > > > > > Anet should just keep their detection on permanently. If Anet updates the list of hashes frequently there is no way for the hack and bot makers to circumvent it. Private hacks will still be a problem, but all the noobs dont make their own stuff. > > I wonder if private hacks are a violation of the ToS, or if it specifies third party. Of course they are a violation since it modifies the game client or game data in the RAM. The only difference between a private and a public hack is that Anet will have a hard time to get a sample of the hack to implement a way to detect it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > It couldn't be more clear. There is a list of software that violate the terms of service. Anet caught people running those. Don't run those. As a matter of fact, if you VALUE your playtime, don't run any. The warning was in the terms of service you (likely didn't) read when you start the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The list that was released after people were suspended? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet should just keep their detection on permanently. If Anet updates the list of hashes frequently there is no way for the hack and bot makers to circumvent it. Private hacks will still be a problem, but all the noobs dont make their own stuff. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some of us value our privacy and it would be trivial to bypass. Hence why other companies like blizzard do this locally on the system and will only send out information about the offending items not your entire system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think people are being a little disingenuous here. Are you not aware that not **running** 3rd party software is like ... #1 bad for any online game? So here is the list of 3rd party software is approved for use ... ready? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Done. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you aware that every single player in every single online game ever played runs third party software while playing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's right ... that's a risk THEY take. That doesn't mean they are approved for use. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes every single time every single player logs in to play they are running third party software. > > > > > > > > > > > > .. and? I don't get your point. Anet determines what violates the terms of service in terms of 3rd party software. Are you just trying to have some academic argument with me? That would be a pointless exercise don't you think? > > > > > > > > > > The point is that having third party software running on your computer, while playing gw2, is not a violation of the ToS unless that software is being used in a manner proscribed in the ToS. > > > > > > > > > > I fully believe that the (vast?) majority of those banned likely earned their punishment. But, the argument that running third party software is a violation is wrong. > > > > > > > > > > To clarify, I completely agree that it is Anet's right to decide to use circumstancial evidence as basis for a ban, but claiming that just having the software is a violation of the ToS is incorrect. > > > > > > > > I wasn't claiming that just having it was a violation. > > > > > > My apologies. I meant to type having the software running (as in the earlier sentences within that post). > > > > Here is my problem with this thinking ... everyone runs 3rd party software ... yet, not everyone is banned. I run iTunes ... but there is a reasonable expectation that iTunes doesn't do the bad things Anet says 3rd party shouldn't do to the game ... and that gives me the confidence that it's safe. > > > > Now we have people claiming the 'cheatengine' shouldn't have them banned, but I can go to the 'About Cheat Engine' page and read this: > > > > **Cheat Engine is an open source tool designed to help you with modifying single player games running under window so you can make them harder or easier depending on your preference(e.g: Find that 100hp is too easy, try playing a game with a max of 1 HP)** > > > > Now, I am by NO means some computer programming guru ... but I would PROBABLY very concerned if I ran this software while playing GW2 ... you know, hints like "modifying games running windows" or "make the easier" or "changing your HP" ... if that doesn't scream hacking, well ... > > As I said before, I firmly believe that the vast majority of those banned deserve what they got. I hope that Anet, despite claims to the contrary, entertains the possibility of a need for appeals for the likely tiny fraction of those affected who might not have engaged in any illicit activity. > > But having software with purpose beyond GW2 (software with no function beyond cheating at gw2 is another matter entirely) running on one's computer is not a violation of the ToS. Sure Anet can ban anyway. A ToS violation isnt needed. They could decide that they dont like your zip code and ban every player from your part of the city...but claiming that fiat bans (even if based on justifiable suspicion) are because of ToS violations is incorrect. > > Fair enough. Personally, i consider the ToS a warning. Even if it's not on the ToS (typically these kinds of things are), it's pretty reasonable to expect players to understand Anet doesn't accept the kinds of effects things like CheatEngine can do to GW2. I have yet to play an online game that doesn't, in some way warn players of what is and isn't acceptable. People saying they weren't warned are just being very ... selective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > @"Nezekan.2671" said: > > > They didn't let us know, it was discovered by other people. Anet only mentioned it after it was leaked. Meaning they screwed up. > > > > Oh please wise one, show us where Anet said they used "Spyware" to track you. > > > > I'll wait on this, because i know your going to have to stretch to get there. > 5 hours this post was released https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/8c2j0y/a_technical_analysis_of_the_spyware_arena_used/, ANET comes out with their own post stating "1516 accounts were suspended because we detected that the accounts were running Guild Wars 2 at the same time as one or more of the following programs over a significant number of hours during a multi-week period earlier this year. " The program was covertly inserted into the update on March 6th and was pulled out on March 27th to gather information without mentioning it on their builds/updates. So Yes it's a spyware. They put that out because quite literally you had people trying to claim innocence by stating i only used Arc and Taco. If you cannot tell that the statement was meant as clarity then well that's on you. And again, show me PROOF of said spyware. You consented to having your process monitored, they don't need Spyware to do that at all a simple server-side script can do that. By consenting to this, no matter how invasive you think it was, it's not spyware. You cannot be spied on with consent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deihnyx.6318 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 There should really be two threads, one about people debating about Cheat Engine, and another one about all the misinformation about the "legality" of monitoring. Not that many people here are firmly opposed to people getting un-banned if they did nothing wrong. But all the noise and fake news surrounding it has to stop. > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Nezekan.2671" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > Well I can't speak for anyone else, but this thread made me so happy I am gonna start spending money on the game again. > > > > Nice spending. > > > > Hint: actual cheaters and hackers who know what they are doing are pretty much unaffected by the wave and still operating in the game. > > I'd wish you good luck with your protest.. but.. I'll be honest, I wish they were far more aggressive then they already are. > > Enjoy your Ban. > > Maybe find a new game in your time off. Exactly. Cheating has been plaguing the game for far too long and it's good to see a step in the right direction, even if that step still needs to be improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > > @"Buy Some Apples.6390" said: > > > > > > > > >someone threw the hammer a bit further this year and sadly everyone who botted or used any other kind of other hack in ~ 3 weeks in march (where I was on vacation >Nosebleed ) is having a 6 months break from the game now. > > > > > > > > >The good news is, we know already what and how they did it. We assume that was their 'yearly purge' that happens literally every year when they start SAB. > > > > > > > > >If you want to be 100% sure that it is 'ok to bot', please wait a few more days, we are taking the needed steps that this will not happen again. But their "detection" is currently not active and you can already go crazy with your bots. We are just adding a few more things to our end. > > > > > > > > >We are updating this thread once we finished the needed changes. > > > > > > > > >Minion goes on! > > > > > > > > Looks like the hackers and botters arent really phased by this. > > > > But one things looks certain, the hacker devs are way more active than anet devs when it comes to developing! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet should just keep their detection on permanently. If Anet updates the list of hashes frequently there is no way for the hack and bot makers to circumvent it. Private hacks will still be a problem, but all the noobs dont make their own stuff. > > > > I wonder if private hacks are a violation of the ToS, or if it specifies third party. > > Of course they are a violation since it modifies the game client or game data in the RAM. The only difference between a private and a public hack is that Anet will have a hard time to get a sample of the hack to implement a way to detect it. > Does tbe ToS specify third party though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > > > @"Buy Some Apples.6390" said: > > > > > > > > > > >someone threw the hammer a bit further this year and sadly everyone who botted or used any other kind of other hack in ~ 3 weeks in march (where I was on vacation >Nosebleed ) is having a 6 months break from the game now. > > > > > > > > > > >The good news is, we know already what and how they did it. We assume that was their 'yearly purge' that happens literally every year when they start SAB. > > > > > > > > > > >If you want to be 100% sure that it is 'ok to bot', please wait a few more days, we are taking the needed steps that this will not happen again. But their "detection" is currently not active and you can already go crazy with your bots. We are just adding a few more things to our end. > > > > > > > > > > >We are updating this thread once we finished the needed changes. > > > > > > > > > > >Minion goes on! > > > > > > > > > > Looks like the hackers and botters arent really phased by this. > > > > > But one things looks certain, the hacker devs are way more active than anet devs when it comes to developing! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet should just keep their detection on permanently. If Anet updates the list of hashes frequently there is no way for the hack and bot makers to circumvent it. Private hacks will still be a problem, but all the noobs dont make their own stuff. > > > > > > I wonder if private hacks are a violation of the ToS, or if it specifies third party. > > > > Of course they are a violation since it modifies the game client or game data in the RAM. The only difference between a private and a public hack is that Anet will have a hard time to get a sample of the hack to implement a way to detect it. > > > > Does tbe ToS specify third party though? I think the ToS is pretty clear. >! > 8. PROHIBITED AND IRREPARABLY HARMFUL ACTIVITIES CONCERNING ArenaNet >! > >! > You acknowledge that You may not, without signed written consent from a legally authorized representative of ArenaNet, do any of the following: >! > Misappropriate, violate or infringe any third-party IP right; >! > Use any ArenaNet IP right except as permitted under this agreement or otherwise permitted in writing by ArenaNet; >! > Use, or provide others with, any software related to the Game, including any automation software (a.k.a. “bot”) or software designed to change or modify operation of the Game; >! > Use, or provide others with, any “hack,” “cheat,” “exploit” or “mod”; >! > Use, or provide others with, any service related to the Game, including but not limited to: >! > any service that interacts with the Game; or >! > any service that that would change characteristics related to an Account or Character ID, such as increasing the level of a character (a.k.a. power-leveling); >! > Engage in any activity prohibited under Section 2(f) above; >! > Knowingly affect the Service, the Game, or Content via any bloatware, malware, computer virus, worm, Trojan horse, spyware, adware, crimeware, scareware, rootkit or any other program installed in a way that executable code of any program is scheduled to utilize or utilizes processor cycles during periods of time when such program is not directly or indirectly being used; >! > Be a party to any commercial activity related to the Game, including but not limited to: >! > providing or obtaining any Item; or >! > use of the Service, the Game, or Content at an Internet café, cyber café or computer gaming center except in North America or European Economic Area so long as there are no players sharing accounts and You are otherwise in compliance with this agreement; >! > Use, obtain or provide data related to operation of the Game, including but not limited to: >! > software that reads areas of computer memory or storage devices related to the Game; >! > software that intercepts or otherwise collects data from or through the Game; >! > software that redirects communications from any Game or Service; or >! > software not provided by ArenaNet which creates or maintains any communication to the Game or Service, including but not limited to any software that emulates the Game or any part thereof as well as any server that emulates the Service or any part thereof; >! > Violate any law or governmental regulation related to the Game; >! > Violate or infringe the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, including but not limited to 17 U.S.C. §1201 et seq. and any other copyright legislation, in any way such as circumventing any ArenaNet technological measure intended to effectively control access to the Service, the Game, Content, or any other ArenaNet IP right, circumventing any protection afforded by an ArenaNet technological measure to any ArenaNet IP right, or engaging in any trafficking related to the foregoing; >! > Institute any arbitration or other proceeding against ArenaNet except as permitted under this agreement, including any legal proceeding in court or before an administrative agency; >! > Provide anyone whose Account was terminated under Section 3(b) any access to the Service, the Game, Content; or >! > Help others violate this agreement. >! > https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-user-agreement/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"starhunter.6015" said: > > > > > No they installed spyware on March 6th and removed it on March 27th on all our computers. > > > > You need to do your research and come back when you understand the entire situation > > It was not spyware, it was only checking processes running along with GW2. It scanned for nothing more. It collected no personal information, no location data, no passwords. It is not tracking what web sites you went too. Many MMO's run programs like this to check for cheats and hacks. No it opened each file and read it then sent it back to Anet servers. That is the definition of spyware Read the link to the reddit post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightlark.4029 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > Because it's very clear people running any software from the list violates Anet's terms of service for the game. Not true. The part of the ToS for software that violates the ToS says "using" the software is against the ToS. In particular, with Cheat Engine someone could easily have it running but not be "using" it with Guild Wars 2, therefore, they are not violating the ToS by the act of simply having Cheat Engine running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Nightlark.4029" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > Because it's very clear people running any software from the list violates Anet's terms of service for the game. > Not true. The part of the ToS for software that violates the ToS says "using" the software is against the ToS. In particular, with Cheat Engine someone could easily have it running but not be "using" it with Guild Wars 2, therefore, they are not violating the ToS by the act of simply having Cheat Engine running. Right ... perhaps it wasn't explicit but I did write that implying that it has to run concurrently with GW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"starhunter.6015" said: > > > > > > > > No they installed spyware on March 6th and removed it on March 27th on all our computers. > > > > > > You need to do your research and come back when you understand the entire situation > > > > It was not spyware, it was only checking processes running along with GW2. It scanned for nothing more. It collected no personal information, no location data, no passwords. It is not tracking what web sites you went too. Many MMO's run programs like this to check for cheats and hacks. > > No it opened each file and read it then sent it back to Anet servers. > > That is the definition of spyware > > > Read the link to the reddit post It sends the hashes back to Anet. Each file only has one possible hash so you can use it to detect banned stuff. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_function Usually for stuff like this you use MD5 or SHA256 hash algorithm. It is very fast and costs almost no performance. It is theoretically possible for two files to have the same hash, but the chance is insanely low. Like lower to win the lottery several times in a row. So you can say it is basically impossible that a legetimate program happens to have same hash as a cheat or hack. Hashes are also used when you try to repair the client with -repair. It looks at the hash of all files stored in the gw2.dat and compares it with a list of hashes of what they are supposed to be. If the hash of a file is different from the list it is corrupted and gets redownloaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeceiverX.8361 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > It couldn't be more clear. There is a list of software that violate the terms of service. Anet caught people running those. Don't run those. As a matter of fact, if you VALUE your playtime, don't run any. The warning was in the terms of service you (likely didn't) read when you start the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The list that was released after people were suspended? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet should just keep their detection on permanently. If Anet updates the list of hashes frequently there is no way for the hack and bot makers to circumvent it. Private hacks will still be a problem, but all the noobs dont make their own stuff. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some of us value our privacy and it would be trivial to bypass. Hence why other companies like blizzard do this locally on the system and will only send out information about the offending items not your entire system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think people are being a little disingenuous here. Are you not aware that not **running** 3rd party software is like ... #1 bad for any online game? So here is the list of 3rd party software is approved for use ... ready? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Done. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you aware that every single player in every single online game ever played runs third party software while playing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's right ... that's a risk THEY take. That doesn't mean they are approved for use. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes every single time every single player logs in to play they are running third party software. > > > > > > > > > > > > .. and? I don't get your point. Anet determines what violates the terms of service in terms of 3rd party software. Are you just trying to have some academic argument with me? That would be a pointless exercise don't you think? > > > > > > > > > > The point is that having third party software running on your computer, while playing gw2, is not a violation of the ToS unless that software is being used in a manner proscribed in the ToS. > > > > > > > > > > I fully believe that the (vast?) majority of those banned likely earned their punishment. But, the argument that running third party software is a violation is wrong. > > > > > > > > > > To clarify, I completely agree that it is Anet's right to decide to use circumstancial evidence as basis for a ban, but claiming that just having the software is a violation of the ToS is incorrect. > > > > > > > > I wasn't claiming that just having it was a violation. > > > > > > My apologies. I meant to type having the software running (as in the earlier sentences within that post). > > > > Here is my problem with this thinking ... everyone runs 3rd party software ... yet, not everyone is banned. I run iTunes ... but there is a reasonable expectation that iTunes doesn't do the bad things Anet says 3rd party shouldn't do to the game ... and that gives me the confidence that it's safe. > > > > Now we have people claiming the 'cheatengine' shouldn't have them banned, but I can go to the 'About Cheat Engine' page and read this: > > > > **Cheat Engine is an open source tool designed to help you with modifying single player games running under window so you can make them harder or easier depending on your preference(e.g: Find that 100hp is too easy, try playing a game with a max of 1 HP)** > > > > Now, I am by NO means some computer programming guru ... but I would PROBABLY very concerned if I ran this software while playing GW2 ... you know, hints like "modifying games running windows" or "make the easier" or "changing your HP" ... if that doesn't scream hacking, well ... > > As I said before, I firmly believe that the vast majority of those banned deserve what they got. I hope that Anet, despite claims to the contrary, entertains the possibility of a need for appeals for the likely tiny fraction of those affected who might not have engaged in any illicit activity. > > But having software with purpose beyond GW2 (software with no function beyond cheating at gw2 is another matter entirely) running on one's computer is not a violation of the ToS. Sure Anet can ban anyway. A ToS violation isnt needed. They could decide that they dont like your zip code and ban every player from your part of the city...but claiming that fiat bans (even if based on justifiable suspicion) are because of ToS violations is incorrect. > > The key distinction here is that it's a violation of the ToS to run any software concurrently with GW2 that **can** interact with the game. CheatEngine, being a memory modifier, **can** do so, and there exist plenty of scripts that are used to cheat in GW2 which have been proven to have been used in-game which are run through CheatEngine. That **can** aspect of things is absolutely a violation of the ToS, especially because it should be known by the user. ANet's willingness to uphold the bans or their right to ban is in accordance to their Terms of Service as well by making the user agree that the suspensions can come with or without reason an operate outside the frame of law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twoodi.5849 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"starhunter.6015" said: > > > > > > > > > > > No they installed spyware on March 6th and removed it on March 27th on all our computers. > > > > > > > > You need to do your research and come back when you understand the entire situation > > > > > > It was not spyware, it was only checking processes running along with GW2. It scanned for nothing more. It collected no personal information, no location data, no passwords. It is not tracking what web sites you went too. Many MMO's run programs like this to check for cheats and hacks. > > > > No it opened each file and read it then sent it back to Anet servers. > > > > That is the definition of spyware > > > > > > Read the link to the reddit post > > It sends the hashes back to Anet. Each file only has one possible hash so you can use it to detect banned stuff. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_function > > Usually for stuff like this you use MD5 or SHA256 hash algorithm. It is very fast and costs almost no performance. It is theoretically possible for two files to have the same hash, but the chance is insanely low. Like lower to win the lottery several times in a row. So you can say it is basically impossible that a legetimate program happens to have same hash as a cheat or hack. > > Hashes are also used when you try to repair the client with -repair. It looks at the hash of all files stored in the gw2.dat and compares it with a list of hashes of what they are supposed to be. If the hash of a file is different from the list it is corrupted and gets redownloaded. It's also trivial to bypass > Given that MD5 would only cover the very exact version of the "cheat tools" they were looking for, I have little doubts. Use a different version? No longer detected. Compiled your own version? No longer detected. Changed the file by a single byte? No longer detected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightlark.4029 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Nightlark.4029" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > Because it's very clear people running any software from the list violates Anet's terms of service for the game. > > Not true. The part of the ToS for software that violates the ToS says "using" the software is against the ToS. In particular, with Cheat Engine someone could easily have it running but not be "using" it with Guild Wars 2, therefore, they are not violating the ToS by the act of simply having Cheat Engine running. > > Right ... perhaps it wasn't explicit but I did write that implying that it has to run concurrently with GW2. Mm yea. I think that's what most people are fired up about -- ANet is claiming that seeing a particular program running == using it with GW2, when for Cheat Engine and (to a lesser extent) MMO Minion that is an overly broad check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twoodi.5849 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > It couldn't be more clear. There is a list of software that violate the terms of service. Anet caught people running those. Don't run those. As a matter of fact, if you VALUE your playtime, don't run any. The warning was in the terms of service you (likely didn't) read when you start the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The list that was released after people were suspended? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet should just keep their detection on permanently. If Anet updates the list of hashes frequently there is no way for the hack and bot makers to circumvent it. Private hacks will still be a problem, but all the noobs dont make their own stuff. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some of us value our privacy and it would be trivial to bypass. Hence why other companies like blizzard do this locally on the system and will only send out information about the offending items not your entire system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think people are being a little disingenuous here. Are you not aware that not **running** 3rd party software is like ... #1 bad for any online game? So here is the list of 3rd party software is approved for use ... ready? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Done. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you aware that every single player in every single online game ever played runs third party software while playing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's right ... that's a risk THEY take. That doesn't mean they are approved for use. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes every single time every single player logs in to play they are running third party software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .. and? I don't get your point. Anet determines what violates the terms of service in terms of 3rd party software. Are you just trying to have some academic argument with me? That would be a pointless exercise don't you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > The point is that having third party software running on your computer, while playing gw2, is not a violation of the ToS unless that software is being used in a manner proscribed in the ToS. > > > > > > > > > > > > I fully believe that the (vast?) majority of those banned likely earned their punishment. But, the argument that running third party software is a violation is wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > To clarify, I completely agree that it is Anet's right to decide to use circumstancial evidence as basis for a ban, but claiming that just having the software is a violation of the ToS is incorrect. > > > > > > > > > > I wasn't claiming that just having it was a violation. > > > > > > > > My apologies. I meant to type having the software running (as in the earlier sentences within that post). > > > > > > Here is my problem with this thinking ... everyone runs 3rd party software ... yet, not everyone is banned. I run iTunes ... but there is a reasonable expectation that iTunes doesn't do the bad things Anet says 3rd party shouldn't do to the game ... and that gives me the confidence that it's safe. > > > > > > Now we have people claiming the 'cheatengine' shouldn't have them banned, but I can go to the 'About Cheat Engine' page and read this: > > > > > > **Cheat Engine is an open source tool designed to help you with modifying single player games running under window so you can make them harder or easier depending on your preference(e.g: Find that 100hp is too easy, try playing a game with a max of 1 HP)** > > > > > > Now, I am by NO means some computer programming guru ... but I would PROBABLY very concerned if I ran this software while playing GW2 ... you know, hints like "modifying games running windows" or "make the easier" or "changing your HP" ... if that doesn't scream hacking, well ... > > > > As I said before, I firmly believe that the vast majority of those banned deserve what they got. I hope that Anet, despite claims to the contrary, entertains the possibility of a need for appeals for the likely tiny fraction of those affected who might not have engaged in any illicit activity. > > > > But having software with purpose beyond GW2 (software with no function beyond cheating at gw2 is another matter entirely) running on one's computer is not a violation of the ToS. Sure Anet can ban anyway. A ToS violation isnt needed. They could decide that they dont like your zip code and ban every player from your part of the city...but claiming that fiat bans (even if based on justifiable suspicion) are because of ToS violations is incorrect. > > > > > > The key distinction here is that it's a violation of the ToS to run any software concurrently with GW2 that **can** interact with the game. > > CheatEngine, being a memory modifier, **can** do so, and there exist plenty of scripts that are used to cheat in GW2 which have been proven to have been used in-game which are run through CheatEngine. > > That **can** aspect of things is absolutely a violation of the ToS, especially because it should be known by the user. > > ANet's willingness to uphold the bans or their right to ban is in accordance to their Terms of Service as well by making the user agree that the suspensions can come with or without reason an operate outside the frame of law. > > Where did you find this? According to users on cheatforums nobody has found a way to cheat in guild wars 2 with cheat engine. Cheat engine can only edit client side data and the majority of guild wars 2 data is server side so it is effectively useless. Lots of methods exist to detect if people are trying to use cheat engine with games yet for some weird reason ANET decided not to bother checking and just made assumptions > They could have very easily checked if the program had any handles (those are identifiers for the "objects" the process wants to interact with, like files, registry keys, or other processes) open for the Guild Wars 2 process for example, which would indicate that it is connected to it. This way they could differentiate between a Cheat Engine process just running in the background and a Cheat Engine process used for cheating in Guild Wars 2. It's a couple of lines of code and would be the bare minimum you would expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > > > > @"Buy Some Apples.6390" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > >someone threw the hammer a bit further this year and sadly everyone who botted or used any other kind of other hack in ~ 3 weeks in march (where I was on vacation >Nosebleed ) is having a 6 months break from the game now. > > > > > > > > > > > > >The good news is, we know already what and how they did it. We assume that was their 'yearly purge' that happens literally every year when they start SAB. > > > > > > > > > > > > >If you want to be 100% sure that it is 'ok to bot', please wait a few more days, we are taking the needed steps that this will not happen again. But their "detection" is currently not active and you can already go crazy with your bots. We are just adding a few more things to our end. > > > > > > > > > > > > >We are updating this thread once we finished the needed changes. > > > > > > > > > > > > >Minion goes on! > > > > > > > > > > > > Looks like the hackers and botters arent really phased by this. > > > > > > But one things looks certain, the hacker devs are way more active than anet devs when it comes to developing! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet should just keep their detection on permanently. If Anet updates the list of hashes frequently there is no way for the hack and bot makers to circumvent it. Private hacks will still be a problem, but all the noobs dont make their own stuff. > > > > > > > > I wonder if private hacks are a violation of the ToS, or if it specifies third party. > > > > > > Of course they are a violation since it modifies the game client or game data in the RAM. The only difference between a private and a public hack is that Anet will have a hard time to get a sample of the hack to implement a way to detect it. > > > > > > > Does tbe ToS specify third party though? > > I think the ToS is pretty clear. > > >! > 8. PROHIBITED AND IRREPARABLY HARMFUL ACTIVITIES CONCERNING ArenaNet > >! > > >! > You acknowledge that You may not, without signed written consent from a legally authorized representative of ArenaNet, do any of the following: > >! > Misappropriate, violate or infringe any third-party IP right; > >! > Use any ArenaNet IP right except as permitted under this agreement or otherwise permitted in writing by ArenaNet; > >! > Use, or provide others with, any software related to the Game, including any automation software (a.k.a. “bot”) or software designed to change or modify operation of the Game; > >! > Use, or provide others with, any “hack,” “cheat,” “exploit” or “mod”; > >! > Use, or provide others with, any service related to the Game, including but not limited to: > >! > any service that interacts with the Game; or > >! > any service that that would change characteristics related to an Account or Character ID, such as increasing the level of a character (a.k.a. power-leveling); > >! > Engage in any activity prohibited under Section 2(f) above; > >! > Knowingly affect the Service, the Game, or Content via any bloatware, malware, computer virus, worm, Trojan horse, spyware, adware, crimeware, scareware, rootkit or any other program installed in a way that executable code of any program is scheduled to utilize or utilizes processor cycles during periods of time when such program is not directly or indirectly being used; > >! > Be a party to any commercial activity related to the Game, including but not limited to: > >! > providing or obtaining any Item; or > >! > use of the Service, the Game, or Content at an Internet café, cyber café or computer gaming center except in North America or European Economic Area so long as there are no players sharing accounts and You are otherwise in compliance with this agreement; > >! > Use, obtain or provide data related to operation of the Game, including but not limited to: > >! > software that reads areas of computer memory or storage devices related to the Game; > >! > software that intercepts or otherwise collects data from or through the Game; > >! > software that redirects communications from any Game or Service; or > >! > software not provided by ArenaNet which creates or maintains any communication to the Game or Service, including but not limited to any software that emulates the Game or any part thereof as well as any server that emulates the Service or any part thereof; > >! > Violate any law or governmental regulation related to the Game; > >! > Violate or infringe the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, including but not limited to 17 U.S.C. §1201 et seq. and any other copyright legislation, in any way such as circumventing any ArenaNet technological measure intended to effectively control access to the Service, the Game, Content, or any other ArenaNet IP right, circumventing any protection afforded by an ArenaNet technological measure to any ArenaNet IP right, or engaging in any trafficking related to the foregoing; > >! > Institute any arbitration or other proceeding against ArenaNet except as permitted under this agreement, including any legal proceeding in court or before an administrative agency; > >! > Provide anyone whose Account was terminated under Section 3(b) any access to the Service, the Game, Content; or > >! > Help others violate this agreement. > >! > > > https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-user-agreement/ Thank you. I am of limited search-fu skill on my phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"starhunter.6015" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No they installed spyware on March 6th and removed it on March 27th on all our computers. > > > > > > > > > > You need to do your research and come back when you understand the entire situation > > > > > > > > It was not spyware, it was only checking processes running along with GW2. It scanned for nothing more. It collected no personal information, no location data, no passwords. It is not tracking what web sites you went too. Many MMO's run programs like this to check for cheats and hacks. > > > > > > No it opened each file and read it then sent it back to Anet servers. > > > > > > That is the definition of spyware > > > > > > > > > Read the link to the reddit post > > > > It sends the hashes back to Anet. Each file only has one possible hash so you can use it to detect banned stuff. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_function > > > > Usually for stuff like this you use MD5 or SHA256 hash algorithm. It is very fast and costs almost no performance. It is theoretically possible for two files to have the same hash, but the chance is insanely low. Like lower to win the lottery several times in a row. So you can say it is basically impossible that a legetimate program happens to have same hash as a cheat or hack. > > > > Hashes are also used when you try to repair the client with -repair. It looks at the hash of all files stored in the gw2.dat and compares it with a list of hashes of what they are supposed to be. If the hash of a file is different from the list it is corrupted and gets redownloaded. > > It's also trivial to bypass > > > Given that MD5 would only cover the very exact version of the "cheat tools" they were looking for, I have little doubts. Use a different version? No longer detected. Compiled your own version? No longer detected. Changed the file by a single byte? No longer detected. Any non resource hungry monitoring procedure is trivial to bypass but it is better than nothing and filters out the hacking noobs which just download their crap from shady internet forums. I would be suprised if more than 10% of the hack users even know how hashes work lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It couldn't be more clear. There is a list of software that violate the terms of service. Anet caught people running those. Don't run those. As a matter of fact, if you VALUE your playtime, don't run any. The warning was in the terms of service you (likely didn't) read when you start the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The list that was released after people were suspended? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet should just keep their detection on permanently. If Anet updates the list of hashes frequently there is no way for the hack and bot makers to circumvent it. Private hacks will still be a problem, but all the noobs dont make their own stuff. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some of us value our privacy and it would be trivial to bypass. Hence why other companies like blizzard do this locally on the system and will only send out information about the offending items not your entire system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think people are being a little disingenuous here. Are you not aware that not **running** 3rd party software is like ... #1 bad for any online game? So here is the list of 3rd party software is approved for use ... ready? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Done. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you aware that every single player in every single online game ever played runs third party software while playing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's right ... that's a risk THEY take. That doesn't mean they are approved for use. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes every single time every single player logs in to play they are running third party software. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .. and? I don't get your point. Anet determines what violates the terms of service in terms of 3rd party software. Are you just trying to have some academic argument with me? That would be a pointless exercise don't you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The point is that having third party software running on your computer, while playing gw2, is not a violation of the ToS unless that software is being used in a manner proscribed in the ToS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fully believe that the (vast?) majority of those banned likely earned their punishment. But, the argument that running third party software is a violation is wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To clarify, I completely agree that it is Anet's right to decide to use circumstancial evidence as basis for a ban, but claiming that just having the software is a violation of the ToS is incorrect. > > > > > > > > > > > > I wasn't claiming that just having it was a violation. > > > > > > > > > > My apologies. I meant to type having the software running (as in the earlier sentences within that post). > > > > > > > > Here is my problem with this thinking ... everyone runs 3rd party software ... yet, not everyone is banned. I run iTunes ... but there is a reasonable expectation that iTunes doesn't do the bad things Anet says 3rd party shouldn't do to the game ... and that gives me the confidence that it's safe. > > > > > > > > Now we have people claiming the 'cheatengine' shouldn't have them banned, but I can go to the 'About Cheat Engine' page and read this: > > > > > > > > **Cheat Engine is an open source tool designed to help you with modifying single player games running under window so you can make them harder or easier depending on your preference(e.g: Find that 100hp is too easy, try playing a game with a max of 1 HP)** > > > > > > > > Now, I am by NO means some computer programming guru ... but I would PROBABLY very concerned if I ran this software while playing GW2 ... you know, hints like "modifying games running windows" or "make the easier" or "changing your HP" ... if that doesn't scream hacking, well ... > > > > > > As I said before, I firmly believe that the vast majority of those banned deserve what they got. I hope that Anet, despite claims to the contrary, entertains the possibility of a need for appeals for the likely tiny fraction of those affected who might not have engaged in any illicit activity. > > > > > > But having software with purpose beyond GW2 (software with no function beyond cheating at gw2 is another matter entirely) running on one's computer is not a violation of the ToS. Sure Anet can ban anyway. A ToS violation isnt needed. They could decide that they dont like your zip code and ban every player from your part of the city...but claiming that fiat bans (even if based on justifiable suspicion) are because of ToS violations is incorrect. > > > > > > > > > > The key distinction here is that it's a violation of the ToS to run any software concurrently with GW2 that **can** interact with the game. > > > > CheatEngine, being a memory modifier, **can** do so, and there exist plenty of scripts that are used to cheat in GW2 which have been proven to have been used in-game which are run through CheatEngine. > > > > That **can** aspect of things is absolutely a violation of the ToS, especially because it should be known by the user. > > > > ANet's willingness to uphold the bans or their right to ban is in accordance to their Terms of Service as well by making the user agree that the suspensions can come with or without reason an operate outside the frame of law. > > > > > > Where did you find this? According to users on cheatforums nobody has found a way to cheat in guild wars 2 with cheat engine. Cheat engine can only edit client side data and the majority of guild wars 2 data is server side so it is effectively useless. Right ... THAT makes it OK >< You don't accept the fact that Anet can ban people for whatever reason they want. Just having the software could be a reason, though not a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Euryon.9248" said: > > @"Buy Some Apples.6390" said: > > > > >someone threw the hammer a bit further this year and sadly everyone who botted or used any other kind of other hack in ~ 3 weeks in march (where I was on vacation >Nosebleed ) is having a 6 months break from the game now. > > > > >The good news is, we know already what and how they did it. We assume that was their 'yearly purge' that happens literally every year when they start SAB. > > > > >If you want to be 100% sure that it is 'ok to bot', please wait a few more days, we are taking the needed steps that this will not happen again. But their "detection" is currently not active and you can already go crazy with your bots. We are just adding a few more things to our end. > > > > >We are updating this thread once we finished the needed changes. > > > > >Minion goes on! > > This sickens me (not Apples but the quote he shared). People who actually think it's perfectly fine to deliberately hack and cheat and provide others with the means to do so. What a bunch of heinous immoral asshats, as is anyone who is defending these people. > > This whole mentality of "it ain't cheating if you don't get caught"/"everyone does it so it's ok"/"winning trumps everything else"/"it's ok to get pleasure out of other people's suffering" is what's wrong with the world today, and people coming out and defending hacking and cheating as a concept absolutely disgusts me. What a bunch of inconsiderate human beings, you are the people who ruin it for everyone else. > > I posted that wayyyyy back in this thread.. that's why anet need to keep the pressure on and keep finding ways to counter and block said hacks.. its cat and mouse but if the cat doesn't want to play (which I firmly believe has been the case for sooo long now) then those few mice turn into unmanageable infestation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twoodi.5849 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > @"starhunter.6015" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No they installed spyware on March 6th and removed it on March 27th on all our computers. > > > > > > > > > > > > You need to do your research and come back when you understand the entire situation > > > > > > > > > > It was not spyware, it was only checking processes running along with GW2. It scanned for nothing more. It collected no personal information, no location data, no passwords. It is not tracking what web sites you went too. Many MMO's run programs like this to check for cheats and hacks. > > > > > > > > No it opened each file and read it then sent it back to Anet servers. > > > > > > > > That is the definition of spyware > > > > > > > > > > > > Read the link to the reddit post > > > > > > It sends the hashes back to Anet. Each file only has one possible hash so you can use it to detect banned stuff. > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_function > > > > > > Usually for stuff like this you use MD5 or SHA256 hash algorithm. It is very fast and costs almost no performance. It is theoretically possible for two files to have the same hash, but the chance is insanely low. Like lower to win the lottery several times in a row. So you can say it is basically impossible that a legetimate program happens to have same hash as a cheat or hack. > > > > > > Hashes are also used when you try to repair the client with -repair. It looks at the hash of all files stored in the gw2.dat and compares it with a list of hashes of what they are supposed to be. If the hash of a file is different from the list it is corrupted and gets redownloaded. > > > > It's also trivial to bypass > > > > > Given that MD5 would only cover the very exact version of the "cheat tools" they were looking for, I have little doubts. Use a different version? No longer detected. Compiled your own version? No longer detected. Changed the file by a single byte? No longer detected. > > Any non resource hungry monitoring procedure is trivial to bypass but it is better than nothing and filters out the hacking noobs which just download their crap from shady internet forums. I would be suprised if more than 10% of the hack users even know how hashes work lol. Also a good way to ban innocent users who have cheat engine on their system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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