Jinks.2057 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Its accepted as the truth because it's been proven. > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet never proved a single person cheated > > > > > > > > > > You're basing your "proven" and "truth" claims on an announcement by the community moderator and information given to people whose accounts were suspended. That does not constitute proof that ANet didn't check further into individual cases, and just opted not to tell anyone the other steps they took. If I were communicating with people I knew had hacked the game, there's no way I would tell them anything I didn't have to. > > > > > > > > It's been confirmed that even having a process open would ping the spyware. > > > > > > No one knows, except ANet, what ANet did _after_ they received the data showing process X was running on User Y's computer concurrently with GW2 for Z time. Come back when you've got that info. Until then, or unless ANet says more, you have no proof. > > > > No the program was read as to what it did by someone who does it for a living. It was also confirmed once they saw it read the processes not related to the GW2 client. > > > > Again all fact > > "Doing it for a living" doesn't mean you won't miss something, that doesn't mean you don't assume something and end up being wrong, and that doesn't mean you're not opionionated. > I rest my case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deihnyx.6318 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > > > Double standards are a funny thing, especially > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Fun fact: people who weren't cheating got wrongfully banned > > > > > > > > > > Fun fact: you don't actually know that. You only know there were people that were _claiming_ to be wrongfully banned, and that's definitely not the same thing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fun Fact: Anet confirmed it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So how about you volunteer for that ban? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In fact **ANYONE** who is advocating that they are ok with Arenanet invading private property and wrongfully banning people need to volunteer for a 6 month ban. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fun fact: it is Anet's game, they make the rules on cheating. Hell, they could even ban people whose username starts with a V. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But just imagine if Anet or any other game dev actually did that. While they are almost surely within their rights (even if it's the most broad interpretation of them) to do it, I can't see them having many defenders, if any at all. Even if they could clearly see for themselves that the players had V at the beginning of their username, an absolute proof of "guilt", most people would not be defending the idea that they deserved to be banned. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One of the big differences between that scenario and what is going on now, is the perception of the accusations made. When someone is labeled as a cheater, more people are willing to accept it as the truth without any evidence. And to make things worse, going by Anet's own statement, some of these banned players aren't even accused of actually cheating. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's just so easy to rail against someone that the authorities have accused/labeled, without considering anything else. > > > > > > > > > > > > One of those people who were labeled as cheaters, labeled a company as "privacy violator". > > > > > > Funny how people are willing to accept that, as well, as the truth, with insufficient evidence. And, to make things worse, going by that same person's later statement, it wasnt a privacy violation after all, yet people still keep saying "i lost my trust in Anet, they monitor everything i do". Remains me of a saying in my country, "Keep saying stuff constantly. Something is bound to stick" > > > > > > > > > > Its accepted as the truth because it's been proven. > > > > > > > > > > Anet never proved a single person cheated > > > > > > > > "My mother can't install UNF therefore I don't cheat." is not proof of truth. > > > > MD5 hashing value having a (1/2)^128 chance of collision (or 2^64 as explained https://stackoverflow.com/questions/201705/how-many-random-elements-before-md5-produces-collisions) is however a fact, but that doesn't seem to stop you from accusing. > > > > > > You keep commenting yet fail to volunteer to banned. > > > > > > The funniest part in all this is I've yet to see any of the people who support unabridged violation of private property volunteer to be banned. It's quite hilarious you don't practice what you preach > > > > This "request" is the perfect representation of the worst of what comes out of extreme cyber-SJWing. "Oh you don't agree with me, so just do something bad and get just banned with them, so that you can be like them and complain that you didn't do anything wrong and that Anet invaded your privacy. You'll understand how bad it feels!". > > No, it won't work. I am sorry that you thought you had found a perfect catch phrase that you could keep bringing at everyone who points out your double standard, but it's only showing the absurdity and contradiction of someone thinking they have the higher ground of morality. > > Earlier in this thread some people who actually cheated ADMITTED to do so, and ADMITTED it was fair, that makes a whole world of difference between their morality and yours. Some people are willing to admit they shouldn't have done something while you'd rather blame it all on a company for defending its property (and the players with it now) > > > > Thankfully some people read what they sign up for, understand some actions are necessary to keep a game healthy, and aren't blaming a company after the facts by totally disrespecting what they signed up for. If they don't agree, they don't install the program. But it's too easy, and frankly dishonest to complain about property violation now. > > > > And if you do install the game, and run into issues like getting banned, then discuss them with Anet, but this little vendetta is not helping the game, not helping the players who got wrongfully banned, and not helping making others players feel sorry for them. > > And because I know this is going to circle back: > > "I would focus on the matter of false positives." > > "If people were angry just because of Anet refusing appeal, I would understand, and support" > > You keep accusing me of being a kitten, but I do not think you know what a kitten actually is. kitten promote the removal of the individual's rights for the betterment of the the whole. So in this case you are for removing the privacy and wrongful banning of individuals so the whole population can have a better experience. Me requesting you all to be banned unjustly as well for the betterment of the whole is seeing you truly believe in your socialistic approach to the issue. > > Thank you I have no idea what this kitten means, but I'll assume it's cheaters. Yes I do promote the removal of individuals for cheating. Yes I am ok with having my game being monitored for the purpose of removing cheaters for the betterment of the whole. The "wrongfully" banned has literally nothing to do with that private property violation thing you keep talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. > > What is the ESRB rating of GW2? > Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? > > I thank you all for participating > I see everyone is ignoring this post b/c they know where it'll go huh? Let's go Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. > > > > What is the ESRB rating of GW2? > > Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? > > > > I thank you all for participating > > > > I see everyone is ignoring this post b/c they know where it'll go huh? > > Let's go > > Anyone? I'll kick that can ... What's illegal about what Anet did? They own the accounts, it's their game, it's their assets. You seem to be under the impression that you can ignore the ToS that you accept, then point the finger at Anet when you believe they aren't acting in a legal way? That's about as two-faced as it gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > > > > Double standards are a funny thing, especially > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Fun fact: people who weren't cheating got wrongfully banned > > > > > > > > > > > Fun fact: you don't actually know that. You only know there were people that were _claiming_ to be wrongfully banned, and that's definitely not the same thing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fun Fact: Anet confirmed it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So how about you volunteer for that ban? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In fact **ANYONE** who is advocating that they are ok with Arenanet invading private property and wrongfully banning people need to volunteer for a 6 month ban. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fun fact: it is Anet's game, they make the rules on cheating. Hell, they could even ban people whose username starts with a V. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But just imagine if Anet or any other game dev actually did that. While they are almost surely within their rights (even if it's the most broad interpretation of them) to do it, I can't see them having many defenders, if any at all. Even if they could clearly see for themselves that the players had V at the beginning of their username, an absolute proof of "guilt", most people would not be defending the idea that they deserved to be banned. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One of the big differences between that scenario and what is going on now, is the perception of the accusations made. When someone is labeled as a cheater, more people are willing to accept it as the truth without any evidence. And to make things worse, going by Anet's own statement, some of these banned players aren't even accused of actually cheating. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's just so easy to rail against someone that the authorities have accused/labeled, without considering anything else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One of those people who were labeled as cheaters, labeled a company as "privacy violator". > > > > > > > Funny how people are willing to accept that, as well, as the truth, with insufficient evidence. And, to make things worse, going by that same person's later statement, it wasnt a privacy violation after all, yet people still keep saying "i lost my trust in Anet, they monitor everything i do". Remains me of a saying in my country, "Keep saying stuff constantly. Something is bound to stick" > > > > > > > > > > > > Its accepted as the truth because it's been proven. > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet never proved a single person cheated > > > > > > > > > > "My mother can't install UNF therefore I don't cheat." is not proof of truth. > > > > > MD5 hashing value having a (1/2)^128 chance of collision (or 2^64 as explained https://stackoverflow.com/questions/201705/how-many-random-elements-before-md5-produces-collisions) is however a fact, but that doesn't seem to stop you from accusing. > > > > > > > > You keep commenting yet fail to volunteer to banned. > > > > > > > > The funniest part in all this is I've yet to see any of the people who support unabridged violation of private property volunteer to be banned. It's quite hilarious you don't practice what you preach > > > > > > This "request" is the perfect representation of the worst of what comes out of extreme cyber-SJWing. "Oh you don't agree with me, so just do something bad and get just banned with them, so that you can be like them and complain that you didn't do anything wrong and that Anet invaded your privacy. You'll understand how bad it feels!". > > > No, it won't work. I am sorry that you thought you had found a perfect catch phrase that you could keep bringing at everyone who points out your double standard, but it's only showing the absurdity and contradiction of someone thinking they have the higher ground of morality. > > > Earlier in this thread some people who actually cheated ADMITTED to do so, and ADMITTED it was fair, that makes a whole world of difference between their morality and yours. Some people are willing to admit they shouldn't have done something while you'd rather blame it all on a company for defending its property (and the players with it now) > > > > > > Thankfully some people read what they sign up for, understand some actions are necessary to keep a game healthy, and aren't blaming a company after the facts by totally disrespecting what they signed up for. If they don't agree, they don't install the program. But it's too easy, and frankly dishonest to complain about property violation now. > > > > > > And if you do install the game, and run into issues like getting banned, then discuss them with Anet, but this little vendetta is not helping the game, not helping the players who got wrongfully banned, and not helping making others players feel sorry for them. > > > And because I know this is going to circle back: > > > "I would focus on the matter of false positives." > > > "If people were angry just because of Anet refusing appeal, I would understand, and support" > > > > You keep accusing me of being a kitten, but I do not think you know what a kitten actually is. kitten promote the removal of the individual's rights for the betterment of the the whole. So in this case you are for removing the privacy and wrongful banning of individuals so the whole population can have a better experience. Me requesting you all to be banned unjustly as well for the betterment of the whole is seeing you truly believe in your socialistic approach to the issue. > > > > Thank you > > I have no idea what this kitten means, Again I rest my case. You can reply to this now: Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. What is the ESRB rating of GW2? Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? I thank you all for participating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deihnyx.6318 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its accepted as the truth because it's been proven. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet never proved a single person cheated > > > > > > > > > > > > You're basing your "proven" and "truth" claims on an announcement by the community moderator and information given to people whose accounts were suspended. That does not constitute proof that ANet didn't check further into individual cases, and just opted not to tell anyone the other steps they took. If I were communicating with people I knew had hacked the game, there's no way I would tell them anything I didn't have to. > > > > > > > > > > It's been confirmed that even having a process open would ping the spyware. > > > > > > > > No one knows, except ANet, what ANet did _after_ they received the data showing process X was running on User Y's computer concurrently with GW2 for Z time. Come back when you've got that info. Until then, or unless ANet says more, you have no proof. > > > > > > No the program was read as to what it did by someone who does it for a living. It was also confirmed once they saw it read the processes not related to the GW2 client. > > > > > > Again all fact > > > > "Doing it for a living" doesn't mean you won't miss something, that doesn't mean you don't assume something and end up being wrong, and that doesn't mean you're not opionionated. > > > > I rest my case > > You will never understand do you. You need to LOOK at all the apples to find out which one are bad. And then you only return bad apples. I don't know how it could be possibly more clear. You don't have a case at all here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. > > > > > > What is the ESRB rating of GW2? > > > Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? > > > > > > I thank you all for participating > > > > > > > I see everyone is ignoring this post b/c they know where it'll go huh? > > > > Let's go > > > > Anyone? > > I'll kick that can ... > > What's illegal about what Anet did? They own the accounts, it's their game, it's their assets. I think you should rethink this one and edit your reply once you've understood it. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. > > > > > > > > What is the ESRB rating of GW2? > > > > Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? > > > > > > > > I thank you all for participating > > > > > > > > > > I see everyone is ignoring this post b/c they know where it'll go huh? > > > > > > Let's go > > > > > > Anyone? > > > > I'll kick that can ... > > > > What's illegal about what Anet did? They own the accounts, it's their game, it's their assets. > > I think you should rethink this one and edit your reply once you've understood it. > > Thank you No, I've thought it through pretty well. We pay for a service. Anet can deny people that service if they abuse it ... so what's your beef? You brought up the issue, now your shying away from the discussion you are challenging OTHER people to have with you about it? How am I not surprised ... I'm calling you bluff buddy. You don't think I understand what I pay for? That's ironic coming from someone that thinks they can ignore the ToS ... I get your angle here ... people too young to agree to the ToS ... again, Anet owns those accounts. If the person isn't old enough, Anet can take action on those accounts if they see fit. I don't even see how this relates to topic at hand ... it's a rather embarrassing grasp at straws for you IMO/. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrstealth.6701 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. > > > > What is the ESRB rating of GW2? > > Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? > > > > I thank you all for participating > > > > I see everyone is ignoring this post b/c they know where it'll go huh? > > Let's go > > Anyone? It would probably only end up accounts being terminated because the person that agreed to the ToS was not legally able to to so. The ToS itself lays out the requirements for valid entry into the terms of the agreement. If anyone were to suffer any legal consequences, it would almost certainly be the parent/guardian of the minor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its accepted as the truth because it's been proven. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet never proved a single person cheated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're basing your "proven" and "truth" claims on an announcement by the community moderator and information given to people whose accounts were suspended. That does not constitute proof that ANet didn't check further into individual cases, and just opted not to tell anyone the other steps they took. If I were communicating with people I knew had hacked the game, there's no way I would tell them anything I didn't have to. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's been confirmed that even having a process open would ping the spyware. > > > > > > > > > > No one knows, except ANet, what ANet did _after_ they received the data showing process X was running on User Y's computer concurrently with GW2 for Z time. Come back when you've got that info. Until then, or unless ANet says more, you have no proof. > > > > > > > > No the program was read as to what it did by someone who does it for a living. It was also confirmed once they saw it read the processes not related to the GW2 client. > > > > > > > > Again all fact > > > > > > "Doing it for a living" doesn't mean you won't miss something, that doesn't mean you don't assume something and end up being wrong, and that doesn't mean you're not opionionated. > > > > > > > I rest my case > > > > > > You will never understand do you. > > You need to LOOK at all the apples to find out which one are bad. > And then you only return bad apples. > > I don't know how it could be possibly more clear. You don't have a case at all here. Simple your argument is that the original person who found the spyware could have made a mistake even though he does this for a living. Yet Anet couldn't have? Again I rest my case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deihnyx.6318 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > > > > > Double standards are a funny thing, especially > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fun fact: people who weren't cheating got wrongfully banned > > > > > > > > > > > > Fun fact: you don't actually know that. You only know there were people that were _claiming_ to be wrongfully banned, and that's definitely not the same thing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fun Fact: Anet confirmed it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So how about you volunteer for that ban? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In fact **ANYONE** who is advocating that they are ok with Arenanet invading private property and wrongfully banning people need to volunteer for a 6 month ban. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fun fact: it is Anet's game, they make the rules on cheating. Hell, they could even ban people whose username starts with a V. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But just imagine if Anet or any other game dev actually did that. While they are almost surely within their rights (even if it's the most broad interpretation of them) to do it, I can't see them having many defenders, if any at all. Even if they could clearly see for themselves that the players had V at the beginning of their username, an absolute proof of "guilt", most people would not be defending the idea that they deserved to be banned. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One of the big differences between that scenario and what is going on now, is the perception of the accusations made. When someone is labeled as a cheater, more people are willing to accept it as the truth without any evidence. And to make things worse, going by Anet's own statement, some of these banned players aren't even accused of actually cheating. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's just so easy to rail against someone that the authorities have accused/labeled, without considering anything else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One of those people who were labeled as cheaters, labeled a company as "privacy violator". > > > > > > > > Funny how people are willing to accept that, as well, as the truth, with insufficient evidence. And, to make things worse, going by that same person's later statement, it wasnt a privacy violation after all, yet people still keep saying "i lost my trust in Anet, they monitor everything i do". Remains me of a saying in my country, "Keep saying stuff constantly. Something is bound to stick" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its accepted as the truth because it's been proven. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet never proved a single person cheated > > > > > > > > > > > > "My mother can't install UNF therefore I don't cheat." is not proof of truth. > > > > > > MD5 hashing value having a (1/2)^128 chance of collision (or 2^64 as explained https://stackoverflow.com/questions/201705/how-many-random-elements-before-md5-produces-collisions) is however a fact, but that doesn't seem to stop you from accusing. > > > > > > > > > > You keep commenting yet fail to volunteer to banned. > > > > > > > > > > The funniest part in all this is I've yet to see any of the people who support unabridged violation of private property volunteer to be banned. It's quite hilarious you don't practice what you preach > > > > > > > > This "request" is the perfect representation of the worst of what comes out of extreme cyber-SJWing. "Oh you don't agree with me, so just do something bad and get just banned with them, so that you can be like them and complain that you didn't do anything wrong and that Anet invaded your privacy. You'll understand how bad it feels!". > > > > No, it won't work. I am sorry that you thought you had found a perfect catch phrase that you could keep bringing at everyone who points out your double standard, but it's only showing the absurdity and contradiction of someone thinking they have the higher ground of morality. > > > > Earlier in this thread some people who actually cheated ADMITTED to do so, and ADMITTED it was fair, that makes a whole world of difference between their morality and yours. Some people are willing to admit they shouldn't have done something while you'd rather blame it all on a company for defending its property (and the players with it now) > > > > > > > > Thankfully some people read what they sign up for, understand some actions are necessary to keep a game healthy, and aren't blaming a company after the facts by totally disrespecting what they signed up for. If they don't agree, they don't install the program. But it's too easy, and frankly dishonest to complain about property violation now. > > > > > > > > And if you do install the game, and run into issues like getting banned, then discuss them with Anet, but this little vendetta is not helping the game, not helping the players who got wrongfully banned, and not helping making others players feel sorry for them. > > > > And because I know this is going to circle back: > > > > "I would focus on the matter of false positives." > > > > "If people were angry just because of Anet refusing appeal, I would understand, and support" > > > > > > You keep accusing me of being a kitten, but I do not think you know what a kitten actually is. kitten promote the removal of the individual's rights for the betterment of the the whole. So in this case you are for removing the privacy and wrongful banning of individuals so the whole population can have a better experience. Me requesting you all to be banned unjustly as well for the betterment of the whole is seeing you truly believe in your socialistic approach to the issue. > > > > > > Thank you > > > > I have no idea what this kitten means, > > Again I rest my case. > > You can reply to this now: > > Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. > > What is the ESRB rating of GW2? > Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? > > I thank you all for participating I rest my case. Let's use that at every post now, maybe it's your new way to say hello. And you're showing here another example and dishonesty. "The rules don't apply to me, so I shouldn't be banned for cheating". Seriously. This is embarrassing at this point. I'd be Anet, I would just keep people that are nothing but trouble out of my game. No reason given. If you can't understand why it's a necessity to monitor against cheating I'd advise you to try Neverwinter Nights or Baldur Gates, solo games where you can do whatever you want without consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charrbeque.8729 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > Fun fact: people who weren't cheating got wrongfully banned > > > > Fun fact: you don't actually know that. You only know there were people that were _claiming_ to be wrongfully banned, and that's definitely not the same thing. > > > > > > > > > > Fun Fact: Anet confirmed it > > Where? > > > > It's not hard proof for any specific case, but Anet's statement on the ban wave shows their intent to ban people that were not necessarily cheating in GW2. Guilt was assumed based on the presence of a program that could, among its other more common/benign uses, be used to cheat in GW2. > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/476255/#Comment_476255 The problem is, people fail to realize that cheat software used on this game is specifically designed NOT to be detected, or any kind of evidence that can be used against the players using such software. If someone is using speedhacks and gets reported, a GM would take a look and not find evidence that banned software is being used. In such a case, they err on the side of caution and assume the player might be just lagging, in order to prevent the risk of wrongfully banning a player. Then people keep reporting and keep complaining, and ArenaNet still can't find evidence that someone is actually cheating (because that's how the fucking software is designed), and continue to do nothing about the cheaters. There have been countless times where people have posted video evidence and/or screenshots of cheaters on Reddit, and a dev posted that they took action against the account(s). It gives some players the impression that they don't care about cheaters, and only take action when a player posts evidence in order to prevent the company from looking bad. The bottom line is, players are constantly accusing ArenaNet of not caring about cheaters, or doing anything about it, and I'm sure at least a few players have left the game for good over it. When they finally do something about it, the whole community is up in arms over it. Do you want them to stop the massive cheating that's been going on for years or not? Make up your freaking minds. The people who got busted cheating are just angry they can't have their way. Some people are going out of their way to throw around wild accusations and conspiracy theories against ArenaNet in order to make them look bad. I swear. It's 2016 all over again. The difference being that so far, nobody has accused ArenaNet of colluding with Russia to steal the game from the cheaters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. > > > > > > What is the ESRB rating of GW2? > > > Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? > > > > > > I thank you all for participating > > > > > > > I see everyone is ignoring this post b/c they know where it'll go huh? > > > > Let's go > > > > Anyone? > > It would probably only end up accounts being terminated because the person that agreed to the ToS was not legally able to to so. The ToS itself lays out the requirements for valid entry into the terms of the agreement. If anyone were to suffer any legal consequences, it would almost certainly be the parent/guardian of the minor. The game is marketed to underage people. This means that you do not have to be 18 to purchase GW2 and install it onto your computer. The company then installs spyware onto the underage & unable to give consent person stating they are legally able to b/c they got consent. Get where I'm going now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deihnyx.6318 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its accepted as the truth because it's been proven. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet never proved a single person cheated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're basing your "proven" and "truth" claims on an announcement by the community moderator and information given to people whose accounts were suspended. That does not constitute proof that ANet didn't check further into individual cases, and just opted not to tell anyone the other steps they took. If I were communicating with people I knew had hacked the game, there's no way I would tell them anything I didn't have to. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's been confirmed that even having a process open would ping the spyware. > > > > > > > > > > > > No one knows, except ANet, what ANet did _after_ they received the data showing process X was running on User Y's computer concurrently with GW2 for Z time. Come back when you've got that info. Until then, or unless ANet says more, you have no proof. > > > > > > > > > > No the program was read as to what it did by someone who does it for a living. It was also confirmed once they saw it read the processes not related to the GW2 client. > > > > > > > > > > Again all fact > > > > > > > > "Doing it for a living" doesn't mean you won't miss something, that doesn't mean you don't assume something and end up being wrong, and that doesn't mean you're not opionionated. > > > > > > > > > > I rest my case > > > > > > > > > > You will never understand do you. > > > > You need to LOOK at all the apples to find out which one are bad. > > And then you only return bad apples. > > > > I don't know how it could be possibly more clear. You don't have a case at all here. > > Simple your argument is that the original person who found the spyware could have made a mistake even though he does this for a living. Yet Anet couldn't have? > > Again I rest my case - He did make a mistake and even updated his post about it. Everyone moved on from that part of the problem since then (but you). - Anet didn't make a mistake by monitoring people as they play their game, for the purpose of detecting cheaters. - Legit people want cheaters out of the game. - Accounts can be terminated in case of cheating - Anet can make mistakes in their interpretation of the data, there can be false positive, and before all that we were actually discussing about how could these false positive happens (which is the only thing that matters for now) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. > > > > > > > > What is the ESRB rating of GW2? > > > > Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? > > > > > > > > I thank you all for participating > > > > > > > > > > I see everyone is ignoring this post b/c they know where it'll go huh? > > > > > > Let's go > > > > > > Anyone? > > > > It would probably only end up accounts being terminated because the person that agreed to the ToS was not legally able to to so. The ToS itself lays out the requirements for valid entry into the terms of the agreement. If anyone were to suffer any legal consequences, it would almost certainly be the parent/guardian of the minor. > > The game is marketed to underage people. This means that you do not have to be 18 to purchase GW2 and install it onto your computer. > > The company then installs spyware onto the underage & unable to give consent person stating they are legally able to b/c they got consent. > > Get where I'm going now? GW2 is rated TEEN (that's 13 YO) ... I get where you are going now ... no where ... unless of course Anet is going into public schools to sell GW2 to kindergarteners. I love how you throw around terms like 'cheating' and 'spyware'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. > > What is the ESRB rating of GW2? > Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? > > I thank you all for participating > Doesn't matter, go read the User Agreement and you'll figure out why. But seeing as you haven't and won't all the while retaining some fantasy land idea that Anet is some big bad evil cooperation for using the tools at its disposal everything you say is moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Charrbeque.8729" said: > > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > Fun fact: people who weren't cheating got wrongfully banned > > > > > Fun fact: you don't actually know that. You only know there were people that were _claiming_ to be wrongfully banned, and that's definitely not the same thing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fun Fact: Anet confirmed it > > > Where? > > > > > > > It's not hard proof for any specific case, but Anet's statement on the ban wave shows their intent to ban people that were not necessarily cheating in GW2. Guilt was assumed based on the presence of a program that could, among its other more common/benign uses, be used to cheat in GW2. > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/476255/#Comment_476255 > > The problem is, people fail to realize that cheat software used on this game is specifically designed NOT to be detected, or any kind of evidence that can be used against the players using such software. > > If someone is using speedhacks and gets reported, a GM would take a look and not find evidence that banned software is being used. In such a case, they err on the side of caution and assume the player might be just lagging, in order to prevent the risk of wrongfully banning a player. Then people keep reporting and keep complaining, and ArenaNet still can't find evidence that someone is actually cheating (because that's how the kitten software is designed), and continue to do nothing about the cheaters. > > There have been countless times where people have posted video evidence and/or screenshots of cheaters on Reddit, and a dev posted that they took action against the account(s). It gives some players the impression that they don't care about cheaters, and only take action when a player posts evidence in order to prevent the company from looking bad. > > The bottom line is, players are constantly accusing ArenaNet of not caring about cheaters, or doing anything about it, and I'm sure at least a few players have left the game for good over it. When they finally do something about it, the whole community is up in arms over it. > > Do you want them to stop the massive cheating that's been going on for years or not? Make up your freaking minds. > > The people who got busted cheating are just angry they can't have their way. Some people are going out of their way to throw around wild accusations and conspiracy theories against ArenaNet in order to make them look bad. > > I swear. It's 2016 all over again. The difference being that so far, nobody has accused ArenaNet of colluding with Russia to steal the game from the cheaters. I believe it's pretty much common knowledge that Anet hasn't invested enough GMs. The fact that people were hacking so blatantly and being reported with videos and screen shots w/out any recourse until they actually installed spyware confirms this beyond a shadow of a doubt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. > > > > > > > > > > What is the ESRB rating of GW2? > > > > > Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? > > > > > > > > > > I thank you all for participating > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see everyone is ignoring this post b/c they know where it'll go huh? > > > > > > > > Let's go > > > > > > > > Anyone? > > > > > > I'll kick that can ... > > > > > > What's illegal about what Anet did? They own the accounts, it's their game, it's their assets. > > > > I think you should rethink this one and edit your reply once you've understood it. > > > > Thank you > > No, I've thought it through pretty well. We pay for a service. Anet can deny people that service if they abuse it ... so what's your beef? You brought up the issue, now your shying away from the discussion you are challenging OTHER people to have with you about it? How am I not surprised ... I'm calling you bluff buddy. You don't think I understand what I pay for? That's ironic coming from someone that thinks they can ignore the ToS ... > > I get your angle here ... people too young to agree to the ToS ... again, Anet owns those accounts. If the person isn't old enough, Anet can take action on those accounts if they see fit. I don't even see how this relates to topic at hand ... it's a rather embarrassing grasp at straws for you IMO/. What he is arguing is that the game is sold to teens, minors, who cannot be bound by a contract of this sort. What he is missing is that this makes it even easier for ANet because someone signing a contract, even digitally, that they are not legally permitted to be bound by cannot claim the benefits of legally signing the contract. The benefit here is access to the game. In other words, those minkrs (unless it was their parent who agreed for them) were never permitted to access the game and so all that Anet has done is remove access that they never had permission to utilize. What he is also missing, with his reference to proof, is that circumstantial evidence is sufficient for conviction if it convinces a nury or judge. Anet, on their own property, are judge and jury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. > > > > What is the ESRB rating of GW2? > > Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? > > > > I thank you all for participating > > > > Doesn't matter, go read the User Agreement and you'll figure out why. > But seeing as you haven't and won't all the while retaining some fantasy land idea that Anet is some big bad evil cooperation for using the tools at its disposal everything you say is moot. Apparently, the UA doesn't apply in whatever country he's in, so it's no surprise it's so easy for him to find all the 'loopholes' in the game that allow big bad Anet to abuse their cheating customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deihnyx.6318 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Charrbeque.8729" said: > > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > Fun fact: people who weren't cheating got wrongfully banned > > > > > Fun fact: you don't actually know that. You only know there were people that were _claiming_ to be wrongfully banned, and that's definitely not the same thing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fun Fact: Anet confirmed it > > > Where? > > > > > > > It's not hard proof for any specific case, but Anet's statement on the ban wave shows their intent to ban people that were not necessarily cheating in GW2. Guilt was assumed based on the presence of a program that could, among its other more common/benign uses, be used to cheat in GW2. > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/476255/#Comment_476255 > > The problem is, people fail to realize that cheat software used on this game is specifically designed NOT to be detected, or any kind of evidence that can be used against the players using such software. > > If someone is using speedhacks and gets reported, a GM would take a look and not find evidence that banned software is being used. In such a case, they err on the side of caution and assume the player might be just lagging, in order to prevent the risk of wrongfully banning a player. Then people keep reporting and keep complaining, and ArenaNet still can't find evidence that someone is actually cheating (because that's how the kitten software is designed), and continue to do nothing about the cheaters. > > There have been countless times where people have posted video evidence and/or screenshots of cheaters on Reddit, and a dev posted that they took action against the account(s). It gives some players the impression that they don't care about cheaters, and only take action when a player posts evidence in order to prevent the company from looking bad. > > The bottom line is, players are constantly accusing ArenaNet of not caring about cheaters, or doing anything about it, and I'm sure at least a few players have left the game for good over it. When they finally do something about it, the whole community is up in arms over it. > > Do you want them to stop the massive cheating that's been going on for years or not? Make up your freaking minds. > > The people who got busted cheating are just angry they can't have their way. Some people are going out of their way to throw around wild accusations and conspiracy theories against ArenaNet in order to make them look bad. > > I swear. It's 2016 all over again. The difference being that so far, nobody has accused ArenaNet of colluding with Russia to steal the game from the cheaters. Exactly this. I feel like people so blindly against Anet for trying to get rid of an issue don't exactly care enough about the game and more about the large drama it's causing. Help them find out what caused the false positives so it doesn't happen again, and let's move on. These violent delights have violent ends (YES I placed it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuka Cola.8520 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 They banned so many people that instead of seeing up to 8 players in wvw, i now see an astonishing number of 3 players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. > > > > > > > > > > What is the ESRB rating of GW2? > > > > > Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? > > > > > > > > > > I thank you all for participating > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see everyone is ignoring this post b/c they know where it'll go huh? > > > > > > > > Let's go > > > > > > > > Anyone? > > > > > > It would probably only end up accounts being terminated because the person that agreed to the ToS was not legally able to to so. The ToS itself lays out the requirements for valid entry into the terms of the agreement. If anyone were to suffer any legal consequences, it would almost certainly be the parent/guardian of the minor. > > > > The game is marketed to underage people. This means that you do not have to be 18 to purchase GW2 and install it onto your computer. > > > > The company then installs spyware onto the underage & unable to give consent person stating they are legally able to b/c they got consent. > > > > Get where I'm going now? > > GW2 is rated TEEN (that's 13 YO) ... I get where you are going now ... no where. I love how you throw around terms like 'cheating' and 'spyware'. They installed spyware. That's a fact. They spied on your computer outside of their game client and use ToS/EULA to do it. The ToS/EULA is void if agreed upon by someone who legally can't give consent. You dont even affirm you are 18 upon purchase, anywhere on this website, or in the ToS/EULA. This voids the ENTIRE document and agreement making the installation of spyware ILLEGAL. Let's not even get into the ramifications of the exploitation underage children to spy on family computers. The banning of the child's account can also be viewed as straight up theft on Arenanet's part since the whole document is null and void. There are many reasons why people like myself are upset with what Arenanet chose to do. They went well beyond what is acceptable in the eyes of the public and simply refusing to address it is making it worse then it should be. Also people are assuming this is the 1st time Arenanet has done this. No this is the first time they were caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. > > > > What is the ESRB rating of GW2? > > Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? > > > > I thank you all for participating > > > > Doesn't matter, go read the User Agreement and you'll figure out why. > But seeing as you haven't and won't all the while retaining some fantasy land idea that Anet is some big bad evil cooperation for using the tools at its disposal everything you say is moot. Link it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. > > > > > > > > > > > > What is the ESRB rating of GW2? > > > > > > Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? > > > > > > > > > > > > I thank you all for participating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see everyone is ignoring this post b/c they know where it'll go huh? > > > > > > > > > > Let's go > > > > > > > > > > Anyone? > > > > > > > > It would probably only end up accounts being terminated because the person that agreed to the ToS was not legally able to to so. The ToS itself lays out the requirements for valid entry into the terms of the agreement. If anyone were to suffer any legal consequences, it would almost certainly be the parent/guardian of the minor. > > > > > > The game is marketed to underage people. This means that you do not have to be 18 to purchase GW2 and install it onto your computer. > > > > > > The company then installs spyware onto the underage & unable to give consent person stating they are legally able to b/c they got consent. > > > > > > Get where I'm going now? > > > > GW2 is rated TEEN (that's 13 YO) ... I get where you are going now ... no where. I love how you throw around terms like 'cheating' and 'spyware'. > > They installed spyware. That's a fact. They spied on your computer outside of their game client and use ToS/EULA to do it. and? I mean ... I DID click agree and I DID read the ToS ... so ... how is that Anet's fault? I'm in their house when I click that. So is everyone else. If you don't like it, you shouldn't use their software ... you should also reconsider being on the internet at all if this bothers you that much. >The ToS/EULA is void if agreed upon by someone who legally can't give consent. You dont even affirm you are 18 upon purchase, anywhere on this website, or in the ToS/EULA. This voids the ENTIRE document and agreement making the installation of spyware ILLEGAL. > If some that can't legally give consent agrees to the ToS ... that seems to me that gives Anet even MORE power to take action on that account as the person is accessing the service illegally and dishonestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. > > > > > > > > > > > > What is the ESRB rating of GW2? > > > > > > Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? > > > > > > > > > > > > I thank you all for participating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see everyone is ignoring this post b/c they know where it'll go huh? > > > > > > > > > > Let's go > > > > > > > > > > Anyone? > > > > > > > > I'll kick that can ... > > > > > > > > What's illegal about what Anet did? They own the accounts, it's their game, it's their assets. > > > > > > I think you should rethink this one and edit your reply once you've understood it. > > > > > > Thank you > > > > No, I've thought it through pretty well. We pay for a service. Anet can deny people that service if they abuse it ... so what's your beef? You brought up the issue, now your shying away from the discussion you are challenging OTHER people to have with you about it? How am I not surprised ... I'm calling you bluff buddy. You don't think I understand what I pay for? That's ironic coming from someone that thinks they can ignore the ToS ... > > > > I get your angle here ... people too young to agree to the ToS ... again, Anet owns those accounts. If the person isn't old enough, Anet can take action on those accounts if they see fit. I don't even see how this relates to topic at hand ... it's a rather embarrassing grasp at straws for you IMO/. > > What he is arguing is that the game is sold to teens, minors, who cannot be bound by a contract of this sort. > > What he is missing is that this makes it even easier for ANet because someone signing a contract, even digitally, that they are not legally permitted to be bound by cannot claim the benefits of legally signing the contract. The benefit here is access to the game. > > In other words, those minkrs (unless it was their parent who agreed for them) were never permitted to access the game and so all that Anet has done is remove access that they never had permission to utilize. > > What he is also missing, with his reference to proof, is that circumstantial evidence is sufficient for conviction if it convinces a nury or judge. Anet, on their own property, are judge and jury. No I get that part in full. Read Washington State's Spyware laws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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