Ashen.2907 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. > > > > > > > > > > > > What is the ESRB rating of GW2? > > > > > > Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? > > > > > > > > > > > > I thank you all for participating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see everyone is ignoring this post b/c they know where it'll go huh? > > > > > > > > > > Let's go > > > > > > > > > > Anyone? > > > > > > > > It would probably only end up accounts being terminated because the person that agreed to the ToS was not legally able to to so. The ToS itself lays out the requirements for valid entry into the terms of the agreement. If anyone were to suffer any legal consequences, it would almost certainly be the parent/guardian of the minor. > > > > > > The game is marketed to underage people. This means that you do not have to be 18 to purchase GW2 and install it onto your computer. > > > > > > The company then installs spyware onto the underage & unable to give consent person stating they are legally able to b/c they got consent. > > > > > > Get where I'm going now? > > > > GW2 is rated TEEN (that's 13 YO) ... I get where you are going now ... no where. I love how you throw around terms like 'cheating' and 'spyware'. > > They installed spyware. That's a fact. They spied on your computer outside of their game client and use ToS/EULA to do it. The ToS/EULA is void if agreed upon by someone who legally can't give consent. You dont even affirm you are 18 upon purchase, anywhere on this website, or in the ToS/EULA. This voids the ENTIRE document and agreement making the installation of spyware ILLEGAL. > > Let's not even get into the ramifications of the exploitation underage children to spy on family computers. The banning of the child's account can also be viewed as straight up theft on Arenanet's part since the whole document is null and void. > > There are many reasons why people like myself are upset with what Arenanet chose to do. They went well beyond what is acceptable in the eyes of the public and simply refusing to address it is making it worse then it should be. > > Also people are assuming this is the 1st time Arenanet has done this. No this is the first time they were caught. Yes, a minor cannot be bound by a contract (usually) which invalidates the contract for that individual. This means they were never permitted to access the game. By signing, even digitally, a contract you are affirming that you are legally entitled to do so. A minor signing a contract is doing so fraudulently. This deprives the minor of access to the benefits of the contract, access to the game in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deihnyx.6318 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. > > > > > > > > > > > > What is the ESRB rating of GW2? > > > > > > Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? > > > > > > > > > > > > I thank you all for participating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see everyone is ignoring this post b/c they know where it'll go huh? > > > > > > > > > > Let's go > > > > > > > > > > Anyone? > > > > > > > > It would probably only end up accounts being terminated because the person that agreed to the ToS was not legally able to to so. The ToS itself lays out the requirements for valid entry into the terms of the agreement. If anyone were to suffer any legal consequences, it would almost certainly be the parent/guardian of the minor. > > > > > > The game is marketed to underage people. This means that you do not have to be 18 to purchase GW2 and install it onto your computer. > > > > > > The company then installs spyware onto the underage & unable to give consent person stating they are legally able to b/c they got consent. > > > > > > Get where I'm going now? > > > > GW2 is rated TEEN (that's 13 YO) ... I get where you are going now ... no where. I love how you throw around terms like 'cheating' and 'spyware'. > > They installed spyware. That's a fact. They spied on your computer outside of their game client and use ToS/EULA to do it. The ToS/EULA is void if agreed upon by someone who legally can't give consent. You dont even affirm you are 18 upon purchase, anywhere on this website, or in the ToS/EULA. This voids the ENTIRE document and agreement making the installation of spyware ILLEGAL. > > Let's not even get into the ramifications of the exploitation underage children to spy on family computers. The banning of the child's account can also be viewed as straight up theft on Arenanet's part since the whole document is null and void. > > There are many reasons why people like myself are upset with what Arenanet chose to do. They went well beyond what is acceptable in the eyes of the public and simply refusing to address it is making it worse then it should be. > > Also people are assuming this is the 1st time Arenanet has done this. No this is the first time they were caught. I'll give you credit for the hard work that was put into this conspiracy theory. You're right, Anet is big bad Evil, you've uncovered a conspiracy. Now you can uninstall their game and sue them. But remember, V.A.C. also reads your processes when playing V.A.C. protected servers. Make sure to annihilate any trace of Steam on your computer, otherwise you might get a virus that will look at all your adult pictures and send them to your friends. Also remember to deactivate windows 10 keylogger, it might read your roleplay sessions. Cortana loves that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is the ESRB rating of GW2? > > > > > > > Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thank you all for participating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see everyone is ignoring this post b/c they know where it'll go huh? > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's go > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone? > > > > > > > > > > I'll kick that can ... > > > > > > > > > > What's illegal about what Anet did? They own the accounts, it's their game, it's their assets. > > > > > > > > I think you should rethink this one and edit your reply once you've understood it. > > > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > No, I've thought it through pretty well. We pay for a service. Anet can deny people that service if they abuse it ... so what's your beef? You brought up the issue, now your shying away from the discussion you are challenging OTHER people to have with you about it? How am I not surprised ... I'm calling you bluff buddy. You don't think I understand what I pay for? That's ironic coming from someone that thinks they can ignore the ToS ... > > > > > > I get your angle here ... people too young to agree to the ToS ... again, Anet owns those accounts. If the person isn't old enough, Anet can take action on those accounts if they see fit. I don't even see how this relates to topic at hand ... it's a rather embarrassing grasp at straws for you IMO/. > > > > What he is arguing is that the game is sold to teens, minors, who cannot be bound by a contract of this sort. > > > > What he is missing is that this makes it even easier for ANet because someone signing a contract, even digitally, that they are not legally permitted to be bound by cannot claim the benefits of legally signing the contract. The benefit here is access to the game. > > > > In other words, those minkrs (unless it was their parent who agreed for them) were never permitted to access the game and so all that Anet has done is remove access that they never had permission to utilize. > > > > What he is also missing, with his reference to proof, is that circumstantial evidence is sufficient for conviction if it convinces a nury or judge. Anet, on their own property, are judge and jury. > > No I get that part in full. Read Washington State's Spyware laws The spyware laws wherein someone illegally accessing Anet's servers can have their access terminated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Let me be clear. I do not want cheaters in any game nor do I support cheaters. What I support more is everyone's right to privacy and their personal property. There are many ways to enforce anti cheating w/out doing what they did. The problem is they very publicly state they are in contact and share your info with online companies who do advertising/research/etc. Look at the whole picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > Let me be clear. I do not want cheaters in any game nor do I support cheaters. > > What I support more is everyone's right to privacy and their personal property. There are many ways to enforce anti cheating w/out doing what they did. The problem is they very publicly state they are in contact and share your info with online companies who do advertising/research/etc. > > Look at the whole picture. This might have been a big deal 15 years ago you know ... do you understand how much of your information is actually out in cyberspace, even if you just casually surf the web? If your concern for privacy and personal property is so strong that you have a problem with what Anet did here, I'm surprised you're even connected to the internet at all. The solution for you seems really simple to me ... don't patronize companies that use your 'personal' information in cyberspace. I mean, I don't even really understand this concern at all. The LAST thing Anet wants to do is waste their time surfing through all the personal crap they 'stole' from you off your hard drive. :rolleyes: That's not where they make money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > > Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is the ESRB rating of GW2? > > > > > > > > Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thank you all for participating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see everyone is ignoring this post b/c they know where it'll go huh? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's go > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone? > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll kick that can ... > > > > > > > > > > > > What's illegal about what Anet did? They own the accounts, it's their game, it's their assets. > > > > > > > > > > I think you should rethink this one and edit your reply once you've understood it. > > > > > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > > > No, I've thought it through pretty well. We pay for a service. Anet can deny people that service if they abuse it ... so what's your beef? You brought up the issue, now your shying away from the discussion you are challenging OTHER people to have with you about it? How am I not surprised ... I'm calling you bluff buddy. You don't think I understand what I pay for? That's ironic coming from someone that thinks they can ignore the ToS ... > > > > > > > > I get your angle here ... people too young to agree to the ToS ... again, Anet owns those accounts. If the person isn't old enough, Anet can take action on those accounts if they see fit. I don't even see how this relates to topic at hand ... it's a rather embarrassing grasp at straws for you IMO/. > > > > > > What he is arguing is that the game is sold to teens, minors, who cannot be bound by a contract of this sort. > > > > > > What he is missing is that this makes it even easier for ANet because someone signing a contract, even digitally, that they are not legally permitted to be bound by cannot claim the benefits of legally signing the contract. The benefit here is access to the game. > > > > > > In other words, those minkrs (unless it was their parent who agreed for them) were never permitted to access the game and so all that Anet has done is remove access that they never had permission to utilize. > > > > > > What he is also missing, with his reference to proof, is that circumstantial evidence is sufficient for conviction if it convinces a nury or judge. Anet, on their own property, are judge and jury. > > > > No I get that part in full. Read Washington State's Spyware laws > > The spyware laws wherein someone illegally accessing Anet's servers can have their access terminated? No they aren't allowed to install any spyware on a computer without expressed consent. Start applying your ToS/EULA argument to any crimes against children being legal as long as they child consents. Start looking bigger and NON techy at the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > Let me be clear. I do not want cheaters in any game nor do I support cheaters. > > > > What I support more is everyone's right to privacy and their personal property. There are many ways to enforce anti cheating w/out doing what they did. The problem is they very publicly state they are in contact and share your info with online companies who do advertising/research/etc. > > > > Look at the whole picture. > > This might have been a big deal 15 years ago you know ... do you understand how much of your information is actually out in cyberspace, even if you just casually surf the web? If your concern for privacy and personal property is so strong that you have a problem with what Anet did here, I'm surprised you're even connected to the internet at all. > > The solution for you seems really simple to me ... don't patronize companies that use your 'personal' information in cyberspace. I take very extreme precautions and actions to ensure my privacy. You may not but I do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > Let me be clear. I do not want cheaters in any game nor do I support cheaters. > > > > > > What I support more is everyone's right to privacy and their personal property. There are many ways to enforce anti cheating w/out doing what they did. The problem is they very publicly state they are in contact and share your info with online companies who do advertising/research/etc. > > > > > > Look at the whole picture. > > > > This might have been a big deal 15 years ago you know ... do you understand how much of your information is actually out in cyberspace, even if you just casually surf the web? If your concern for privacy and personal property is so strong that you have a problem with what Anet did here, I'm surprised you're even connected to the internet at all. > > > > The solution for you seems really simple to me ... don't patronize companies that use your 'personal' information in cyberspace. > > I take very extreme precautions and actions to ensure my privacy. You may not but I do You do? Not if you play MMO's you don't. That's not new either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > Let me be clear. I do not want cheaters in any game nor do I support cheaters. > > > > > > > > What I support more is everyone's right to privacy and their personal property. There are many ways to enforce anti cheating w/out doing what they did. The problem is they very publicly state they are in contact and share your info with online companies who do advertising/research/etc. > > > > > > > > Look at the whole picture. > > > > > > This might have been a big deal 15 years ago you know ... do you understand how much of your information is actually out in cyberspace, even if you just casually surf the web? If your concern for privacy and personal property is so strong that you have a problem with what Anet did here, I'm surprised you're even connected to the internet at all. > > > > > > The solution for you seems really simple to me ... don't patronize companies that use your 'personal' information in cyberspace. > > > > I take very extreme precautions and actions to ensure my privacy. You may not but I do > > You do? Not if you play MMO's you don't. That's not new either. Actually I don't play the more popular MMO's who've been known to use even less invasive anti cheat methods. I take my privacy and invasion of my personal property very seriously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffletcher.3468 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Check out Axios yesterday - most people in the U.S. think social media sites should be regulated. I'm on a VPN right now, have never belonged to a social media service and fight a (probably futile) fight to keep google at arms length. Some of us take our privacy seriously. If an MMO breaches my privacy it is probably because of people who think they should be able to because "hey everybody does it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > Let me be clear. I do not want cheaters in any game nor do I support cheaters. > > > > > > > > > > What I support more is everyone's right to privacy and their personal property. There are many ways to enforce anti cheating w/out doing what they did. The problem is they very publicly state they are in contact and share your info with online companies who do advertising/research/etc. > > > > > > > > > > Look at the whole picture. > > > > > > > > This might have been a big deal 15 years ago you know ... do you understand how much of your information is actually out in cyberspace, even if you just casually surf the web? If your concern for privacy and personal property is so strong that you have a problem with what Anet did here, I'm surprised you're even connected to the internet at all. > > > > > > > > The solution for you seems really simple to me ... don't patronize companies that use your 'personal' information in cyberspace. > > > > > > I take very extreme precautions and actions to ensure my privacy. You may not but I do > > > > You do? Not if you play MMO's you don't. That's not new either. > > Actually I don't play the more popular MMO's who've been known to use even less invasive anti cheat methods. > > I take my privacy and invasion of my personal property very seriously Nevertheless, looks like it's time for you to unplug if your conspiracy theory about Anet taking your personal information and selling it are going to run wild. > @"ffletcher.3468" said: > Check out Axios yesterday - most people in the U.S. think social media sites should be regulated. I'm on a VPN right now, have never belonged to a social media service and fight a (probably futile) fight to keep google at arms length. Some of us take our privacy seriously. If an MMO breaches my privacy it is probably because of people who think they should be able to because "hey everybody does it". Actually, i think it's more of a case of people are WILLING to give Anet an inch so they can continue to provide them with high quality entertainment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrstealth.6701 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Charrbeque.8729" said: > > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > Fun fact: people who weren't cheating got wrongfully banned > > > > > Fun fact: you don't actually know that. You only know there were people that were _claiming_ to be wrongfully banned, and that's definitely not the same thing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fun Fact: Anet confirmed it > > > Where? > > > > > > > It's not hard proof for any specific case, but Anet's statement on the ban wave shows their intent to ban people that were not necessarily cheating in GW2. Guilt was assumed based on the presence of a program that could, among its other more common/benign uses, be used to cheat in GW2. > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/476255/#Comment_476255 > > The problem is, people fail to realize that cheat software used on this game is specifically designed NOT to be detected, or any kind of evidence that can be used against the players using such software. > > If someone is using speedhacks and gets reported, a GM would take a look and not find evidence that banned software is being used. In such a case, they err on the side of caution and assume the player might be just lagging, in order to prevent the risk of wrongfully banning a player. Then people keep reporting and keep complaining, and ArenaNet still can't find evidence that someone is actually cheating (because that's how the kitten software is designed), and continue to do nothing about the cheaters. > > There have been countless times where people have posted video evidence and/or screenshots of cheaters on Reddit, and a dev posted that they took action against the account(s). It gives some players the impression that they don't care about cheaters, and only take action when a player posts evidence in order to prevent the company from looking bad. > > The bottom line is, players are constantly accusing ArenaNet of not caring about cheaters, or doing anything about it, and I'm sure at least a few players have left the game for good over it. When they finally do something about it, the whole community is up in arms over it. > > Do you want them to stop the massive cheating that's been going on for years or not? Make up your freaking minds. > > The people who got busted cheating are just angry they can't have their way. Some people are going out of their way to throw around wild accusations and conspiracy theories against ArenaNet in order to make them look bad. > > I swear. It's 2016 all over again. The difference being that so far, nobody has accused ArenaNet of colluding with Russia to steal the game from the cheaters. That's more of a reason to rely on the combination of game logs and process detection, instead of just one or other. Though, Anet has already given up on the process detection, having removed it from the client a few weeks after it was added. A player using speedhacks is likely going to at least be suspicious as far as ingame logging/data goes, though as you point out, that might not be solid enough data to ban them. But if they are also detected with a known cheat process running, the evidence against them is considerably stronger. Having more evidence and a higher degree of certainly that the person is cheating should be a win-win. Anet seems to have gone the opposite direction in this incident. Going by the wording of their statement, they were only using the presence of a cheat process to determine who to ban. Had they also looked at ingame log evidence, they could have more evidence against actual cheaters, and possibly been able to clear others of the accusation. A player flagged with CheatEngine (which has uses outside of GW2) running, but nowhere near any thresholds of being suspected of speedhack use ingame is likely innocent. There will always be some grey area, but it should at least cut down on false positives. Ignoring the ingame data is just asking for false positives when looking at something like CheatEngine. Add the fact that they are not accepting appeals for this, and you've got a recipe for community outrage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deihnyx.6318 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > Let me be clear. I do not want cheaters in any game nor do I support cheaters. > > > > > > > > > > What I support more is everyone's right to privacy and their personal property. There are many ways to enforce anti cheating w/out doing what they did. The problem is they very publicly state they are in contact and share your info with online companies who do advertising/research/etc. > > > > > > > > > > Look at the whole picture. > > > > > > > > This might have been a big deal 15 years ago you know ... do you understand how much of your information is actually out in cyberspace, even if you just casually surf the web? If your concern for privacy and personal property is so strong that you have a problem with what Anet did here, I'm surprised you're even connected to the internet at all. > > > > > > > > The solution for you seems really simple to me ... don't patronize companies that use your 'personal' information in cyberspace. > > > > > > I take very extreme precautions and actions to ensure my privacy. You may not but I do > > > > You do? Not if you play MMO's you don't. That's not new either. > > Actually I don't play the more popular MMO's who've been known to use even less invasive anti cheat methods. > > I take my privacy and invasion of my personal property very seriously So you're using Tails, right? You're not on Windows, right? How do you play the game then? Also, explain to me how they can detect if someone is checking the gear of others in pvp match from the server. This stuff doesn't even require to modify in game memory, it's literally invisible for the server. What the so called "spyware" gathers: PROCESS1: a12915a275784ad43945f4eb39edea63 PROCESS2: 43372565de379193bd63be9fab205c8d PROCESS3: 1d6c556f382800c56ba0235dd7fd735a PROCESS4: 7870e8ffc3b7ba8c2ebb03f2c3486728 PROCESS5: 02239cef0079a65a634962576c575bb6 This is what is sent to their server (filtered out) PROCESS3: 1d6c556f382800c56ba0235dd7fd735a (ex for CE) PROCESS4: 7870e8ffc3b7ba8c2ebb03f2c3486728 (ex for UNF) And you're talking about privacy violation. Again, if you were nearly as cautious as you say you are about your private info, you would understand why this is nothing. On the contrary though, they (and other companies) also log your personal LOGS in game, which there... will contain a LOT more information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > Let me be clear. I do not want cheaters in any game nor do I support cheaters. > > > > > > > > > > > > What I support more is everyone's right to privacy and their personal property. There are many ways to enforce anti cheating w/out doing what they did. The problem is they very publicly state they are in contact and share your info with online companies who do advertising/research/etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > Look at the whole picture. > > > > > > > > > > This might have been a big deal 15 years ago you know ... do you understand how much of your information is actually out in cyberspace, even if you just casually surf the web? If your concern for privacy and personal property is so strong that you have a problem with what Anet did here, I'm surprised you're even connected to the internet at all. > > > > > > > > > > The solution for you seems really simple to me ... don't patronize companies that use your 'personal' information in cyberspace. > > > > > > > > I take very extreme precautions and actions to ensure my privacy. You may not but I do > > > > > > You do? Not if you play MMO's you don't. That's not new either. > > > > Actually I don't play the more popular MMO's who've been known to use even less invasive anti cheat methods. > > > > I take my privacy and invasion of my personal property very seriously > > Nevertheless, looks like it's time for you to unplug if your conspiracy theory about Anet taking your personal information and selling it are going to run wild. Again you live how you want to I will live how I want to. I won't demand you live like me nor will you demand I live like you. Privacy, private property, etc. are human rights protected in many nations. If you think people should sacrifice that for your gaming pleasure that is very wrong. Again you can give up your privacy, freedom, etc. I don't care.....you can't expect other's to have too as well. Again Thank you > @"ffletcher.3468" said: > Check out Axios yesterday - most people in the U.S. think social media sites should be regulated. I'm on a VPN right now, have never belonged to a social media service and fight a (probably futile) fight to keep google at arms length. Some of us take our privacy seriously. If an MMO breaches my privacy it is probably because of people who think they should be able to because "hey everybody does it". This is my point. Thank You Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 The OP is mistaken if he/she believes owning more than one account is against the ToS. Or playing on more than one account, or more than 1 account sharing an IP address. Perhaps, it would behoove them to read the EULA/ToS/CoC etc. to become more familiar with the exact terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > Let me be clear. I do not want cheaters in any game nor do I support cheaters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I support more is everyone's right to privacy and their personal property. There are many ways to enforce anti cheating w/out doing what they did. The problem is they very publicly state they are in contact and share your info with online companies who do advertising/research/etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Look at the whole picture. > > > > > > > > > > > > This might have been a big deal 15 years ago you know ... do you understand how much of your information is actually out in cyberspace, even if you just casually surf the web? If your concern for privacy and personal property is so strong that you have a problem with what Anet did here, I'm surprised you're even connected to the internet at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > The solution for you seems really simple to me ... don't patronize companies that use your 'personal' information in cyberspace. > > > > > > > > > > I take very extreme precautions and actions to ensure my privacy. You may not but I do > > > > > > > > You do? Not if you play MMO's you don't. That's not new either. > > > > > > Actually I don't play the more popular MMO's who've been known to use even less invasive anti cheat methods. > > > > > > I take my privacy and invasion of my personal property very seriously > > > > Nevertheless, looks like it's time for you to unplug if your conspiracy theory about Anet taking your personal information and selling it are going to run wild. > > If you think people should sacrifice that for your gaming pleasure that is very wrong. You're right, that would be wrong ... but I'm not saying that ... I'm saying you have a CHOICE and if you don't like the way you and your privacy are treated by a service provider, you can choose to not use the service. I don't even know why I have to explain that obvious conclusion to you. It probably would have saved 20 pages in this thread. Clearly you have zero tolerance ... so I don't even know why you are even taking a risk posting on the forum ... or presumably still playing the game? /shrug I don't really like my privacy invaded either ... but then again, I'm a pretty reasonable person and have no doubt that Anet could care less about my photos of my garden, my son's 1st day at school or what recipes I have written up; I'm betting that this was a costly activity for them and the less time they wasted 'poking around' my and everyone else's computer for 'the juicy stuff', the better it was for everyone. They looked for something very specific and if they didn't find it, they moved on. Don't worry though .. .I'm sure they went through your stuff pretty thoroughly :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > Let me be clear. I do not want cheaters in any game nor do I support cheaters. > > > > > > > > > > > > What I support more is everyone's right to privacy and their personal property. There are many ways to enforce anti cheating w/out doing what they did. The problem is they very publicly state they are in contact and share your info with online companies who do advertising/research/etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > Look at the whole picture. > > > > > > > > > > This might have been a big deal 15 years ago you know ... do you understand how much of your information is actually out in cyberspace, even if you just casually surf the web? If your concern for privacy and personal property is so strong that you have a problem with what Anet did here, I'm surprised you're even connected to the internet at all. > > > > > > > > > > The solution for you seems really simple to me ... don't patronize companies that use your 'personal' information in cyberspace. > > > > > > > > I take very extreme precautions and actions to ensure my privacy. You may not but I do > > > > > > You do? Not if you play MMO's you don't. That's not new either. > > > > Actually I don't play the more popular MMO's who've been known to use even less invasive anti cheat methods. > > > > I take my privacy and invasion of my personal property very seriously > > So you're using Tails, right? You're not on Windows, right? How do you play the game then? > > Also, explain to me how they can detect if someone is checking the gear of others in pvp match from the server. > This stuff doesn't even require to modify in game memory, it's literally invisible for the server. > > What the so called "spyware" gathers: > PROCESS1: a12915a275784ad43945f4eb39edea63 > PROCESS2: 43372565de379193bd63be9fab205c8d > PROCESS3: 1d6c556f382800c56ba0235dd7fd735a > PROCESS4: 7870e8ffc3b7ba8c2ebb03f2c3486728 > PROCESS5: 02239cef0079a65a634962576c575bb6 > > This is what is sent to their server (filtered out) > PROCESS3: 1d6c556f382800c56ba0235dd7fd735a (ex for CE) > PROCESS4: 7870e8ffc3b7ba8c2ebb03f2c3486728 (ex for UNF) > > And you're talking about privacy violation. > Again, if you were nearly as cautious as you say you are about your private info, you would understand why this is nothing. On the contrary though, they (and other companies) also log your personal LOGS in game, which there... will contain a LOT more information. Again do you agree to a 6 month ban starting tomorrow? Again address the legality of installing spyware on children's computers Again please learn the definition of what a social justice warrior actually is Someone detecting your gear in a game isn't going outside the actual client to get it. You are arguing in completely the wrong direction. Your spyware gathers section should be Process 1-200 or more most of which aren't even pertaining to the GW2 client. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrstealth.6701 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. > > > > > > > > What is the ESRB rating of GW2? > > > > Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? > > > > > > > > I thank you all for participating > > > > > > > > > > I see everyone is ignoring this post b/c they know where it'll go huh? > > > > > > Let's go > > > > > > Anyone? > > > > It would probably only end up accounts being terminated because the person that agreed to the ToS was not legally able to to so. The ToS itself lays out the requirements for valid entry into the terms of the agreement. If anyone were to suffer any legal consequences, it would almost certainly be the parent/guardian of the minor. > > The game is marketed to underage people. This means that you do not have to be 18 to purchase GW2 and install it onto your computer. > > The company then installs spyware onto the underage & unable to give consent person stating they are legally able to b/c they got consent. > > Get where I'm going now? The parent/guardian is legally responsible for the actions of their child. They permitted them to buy the game, install it, and agree to the ToS. Not being aware of what the child is doing does not absolve them of that responsibility, it makes them negligent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. > > > > > > > > > > What is the ESRB rating of GW2? > > > > > Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? > > > > > > > > > > I thank you all for participating > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see everyone is ignoring this post b/c they know where it'll go huh? > > > > > > > > Let's go > > > > > > > > Anyone? > > > > > > It would probably only end up accounts being terminated because the person that agreed to the ToS was not legally able to to so. The ToS itself lays out the requirements for valid entry into the terms of the agreement. If anyone were to suffer any legal consequences, it would almost certainly be the parent/guardian of the minor. > > > > The game is marketed to underage people. This means that you do not have to be 18 to purchase GW2 and install it onto your computer. > > > > The company then installs spyware onto the underage & unable to give consent person stating they are legally able to b/c they got consent. > > > > Get where I'm going now? > > The parent/guardian is legally responsible for the actions of their child. They permitted them to buy the game, install it, and agree to the ToS. Not being aware of what the child is doing does not absolve them of that responsibility, it makes them negligent. Yes but they went by the ESRB rating which was marketed to the underage child. Again start looking at your argument against crimes against children. Having a child sign a contract won't absolve the criminal who targeted the child. Read their privacy statement and then come back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. > > > > > > What is the ESRB rating of GW2? > > > Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? > > > > > > I thank you all for participating > > > > > > > Doesn't matter, go read the User Agreement and you'll figure out why. > > But seeing as you haven't and won't all the while retaining some fantasy land idea that Anet is some big bad evil cooperation for using the tools at its disposal everything you say is moot. > > Link it https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-user-agreement/ Have fun reading. Not doing the rest of your homework for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > Let me be clear. I do not want cheaters in any game nor do I support cheaters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I support more is everyone's right to privacy and their personal property. There are many ways to enforce anti cheating w/out doing what they did. The problem is they very publicly state they are in contact and share your info with online companies who do advertising/research/etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Look at the whole picture. > > > > > > > > > > > > This might have been a big deal 15 years ago you know ... do you understand how much of your information is actually out in cyberspace, even if you just casually surf the web? If your concern for privacy and personal property is so strong that you have a problem with what Anet did here, I'm surprised you're even connected to the internet at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > The solution for you seems really simple to me ... don't patronize companies that use your 'personal' information in cyberspace. > > > > > > > > > > I take very extreme precautions and actions to ensure my privacy. You may not but I do > > > > > > > > You do? Not if you play MMO's you don't. That's not new either. > > > > > > Actually I don't play the more popular MMO's who've been known to use even less invasive anti cheat methods. > > > > > > I take my privacy and invasion of my personal property very seriously > > > > So you're using Tails, right? You're not on Windows, right? How do you play the game then? > > > > Also, explain to me how they can detect if someone is checking the gear of others in pvp match from the server. > > This stuff doesn't even require to modify in game memory, it's literally invisible for the server. > > > > What the so called "spyware" gathers: > > PROCESS1: a12915a275784ad43945f4eb39edea63 > > PROCESS2: 43372565de379193bd63be9fab205c8d > > PROCESS3: 1d6c556f382800c56ba0235dd7fd735a > > PROCESS4: 7870e8ffc3b7ba8c2ebb03f2c3486728 > > PROCESS5: 02239cef0079a65a634962576c575bb6 > > > > This is what is sent to their server (filtered out) > > PROCESS3: 1d6c556f382800c56ba0235dd7fd735a (ex for CE) > > PROCESS4: 7870e8ffc3b7ba8c2ebb03f2c3486728 (ex for UNF) > > > > And you're talking about privacy violation. > > Again, if you were nearly as cautious as you say you are about your private info, you would understand why this is nothing. On the contrary though, they (and other companies) also log your personal LOGS in game, which there... will contain a LOT more information. > > Again do you agree to a 6 month ban starting tomorrow? > Again address the legality of installing spyware on children's computers > Again please learn the definition of what a social justice warrior actually is > > Someone detecting your gear in a game isn't going outside the actual client to get it. You are arguing in completely the wrong direction. Your spyware gathers section should be Process 1-200 or more most of which aren't even pertaining to the GW2 client. You're not being honest here ... for someone so seriously concerned about their privacy, what Anet did is the least of your worries. Sounds to me like you have some reading to do to get up to speed on a more secure internet experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. > > > > > > > > > > > > What is the ESRB rating of GW2? > > > > > > Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? > > > > > > > > > > > > I thank you all for participating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see everyone is ignoring this post b/c they know where it'll go huh? > > > > > > > > > > Let's go > > > > > > > > > > Anyone? > > > > > > > > It would probably only end up accounts being terminated because the person that agreed to the ToS was not legally able to to so. The ToS itself lays out the requirements for valid entry into the terms of the agreement. If anyone were to suffer any legal consequences, it would almost certainly be the parent/guardian of the minor. > > > > > > The game is marketed to underage people. This means that you do not have to be 18 to purchase GW2 and install it onto your computer. > > > > > > The company then installs spyware onto the underage & unable to give consent person stating they are legally able to b/c they got consent. > > > > > > Get where I'm going now? > > > > The parent/guardian is legally responsible for the actions of their child. They permitted them to buy the game, install it, and agree to the ToS. Not being aware of what the child is doing does not absolve them of that responsibility, it makes them negligent. > > Yes but they went by the ESRB rating which was marketed to the underage child. Again start looking at your argument against other crimes against children. Having a child sign a ToS/EULA won't absolve the criminal who targeted the child. Read their privacy statement and then come back Sorry ... what 'underage' children are you refering to? GW2 is rated TEEN, that's 13 YO. Are we going to add 'marketing' to your list of abused words now as well? How is Anet marketing GW2 to children under 13, getting them to buy, install and play the game ... all without their (negligent) parent's knowledge? ... and somehow we should be questioning Anet's legality when (in the SMALL instance) that happens? What shape is the Earth where you live? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. > > > > > > > > What is the ESRB rating of GW2? > > > > Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? > > > > > > > > I thank you all for participating > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't matter, go read the User Agreement and you'll figure out why. > > > But seeing as you haven't and won't all the while retaining some fantasy land idea that Anet is some big bad evil cooperation for using the tools at its disposal everything you say is moot. > > > > Link it > > https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-user-agreement/ > > Have fun reading. Not doing the rest of your homework for you. Looked through that and didn't see anything that supports your argument. I may missed it when I originally read through it so I asked for you to maybe post a different one? Again I might not be seeing what you're referencing so please point it out. Thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is the ESRB rating of GW2? > > > > > > > Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thank you all for participating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see everyone is ignoring this post b/c they know where it'll go huh? > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's go > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone? > > > > > > > > > > It would probably only end up accounts being terminated because the person that agreed to the ToS was not legally able to to so. The ToS itself lays out the requirements for valid entry into the terms of the agreement. If anyone were to suffer any legal consequences, it would almost certainly be the parent/guardian of the minor. > > > > > > > > The game is marketed to underage people. This means that you do not have to be 18 to purchase GW2 and install it onto your computer. > > > > > > > > The company then installs spyware onto the underage & unable to give consent person stating they are legally able to b/c they got consent. > > > > > > > > Get where I'm going now? > > > > > > The parent/guardian is legally responsible for the actions of their child. They permitted them to buy the game, install it, and agree to the ToS. Not being aware of what the child is doing does not absolve them of that responsibility, it makes them negligent. > > > > Yes but they went by the ESRB rating which was marketed to the underage child. Again start looking at your argument against other crimes against children. Having a child sign a ToS/EULA won't absolve the criminal who targeted the child. Read their privacy statement and then come back > > Sorry ... what 'underage' children are you refering to? GW2 is rated TEEN, that's 13 YO. Are we going to add 'marketing' to your list of abused words now as well? How is Anet marketing GW2 to children under 13, getting them to buy, install and play the game ... all without their (negligent) parent's knowledge? A 13 year old is an underage child. Do you honestly think a 13 year old is able to give consent?!!??!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrstealth.6701 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > Let me be clear. I do not want cheaters in any game nor do I support cheaters. > > > > > > > > > > > > What I support more is everyone's right to privacy and their personal property. There are many ways to enforce anti cheating w/out doing what they did. The problem is they very publicly state they are in contact and share your info with online companies who do advertising/research/etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > Look at the whole picture. > > > > > > > > > > This might have been a big deal 15 years ago you know ... do you understand how much of your information is actually out in cyberspace, even if you just casually surf the web? If your concern for privacy and personal property is so strong that you have a problem with what Anet did here, I'm surprised you're even connected to the internet at all. > > > > > > > > > > The solution for you seems really simple to me ... don't patronize companies that use your 'personal' information in cyberspace. > > > > > > > > I take very extreme precautions and actions to ensure my privacy. You may not but I do > > > > > > You do? Not if you play MMO's you don't. That's not new either. > > > > Actually I don't play the more popular MMO's who've been known to use even less invasive anti cheat methods. > > > > I take my privacy and invasion of my personal property very seriously > > Nevertheless, looks like it's time for you to unplug if your conspiracy theory about Anet taking your personal information and selling it are going to run wild. > > > @"ffletcher.3468" said: > > Check out Axios yesterday - most people in the U.S. think social media sites should be regulated. I'm on a VPN right now, have never belonged to a social media service and fight a (probably futile) fight to keep google at arms length. Some of us take our privacy seriously. If an MMO breaches my privacy it is probably because of people who think they should be able to because "hey everybody does it". > > Actually, i think it's more of a case of people are WILLING to give Anet an inch so they can continue to provide them with high quality entertainment. I'm all for privacy, but I'm fine with Anet having an anti-cheat system that sees other processes on my PC as long as it only tells Anet when it finds cheat software. This is how Anet's system appears to work. Now, I would have a problem, and consider it spyware, if Anet was being sent the full list of processes running on my PC. All of the processes that have nothing to do with cheating in their game are none of their business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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