Deihnyx.6318 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > Let me be clear. I do not want cheaters in any game nor do I support cheaters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I support more is everyone's right to privacy and their personal property. There are many ways to enforce anti cheating w/out doing what they did. The problem is they very publicly state they are in contact and share your info with online companies who do advertising/research/etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Look at the whole picture. > > > > > > > > > > > > This might have been a big deal 15 years ago you know ... do you understand how much of your information is actually out in cyberspace, even if you just casually surf the web? If your concern for privacy and personal property is so strong that you have a problem with what Anet did here, I'm surprised you're even connected to the internet at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > The solution for you seems really simple to me ... don't patronize companies that use your 'personal' information in cyberspace. > > > > > > > > > > I take very extreme precautions and actions to ensure my privacy. You may not but I do > > > > > > > > You do? Not if you play MMO's you don't. That's not new either. > > > > > > Actually I don't play the more popular MMO's who've been known to use even less invasive anti cheat methods. > > > > > > I take my privacy and invasion of my personal property very seriously > > > > So you're using Tails, right? You're not on Windows, right? How do you play the game then? > > > > Also, explain to me how they can detect if someone is checking the gear of others in pvp match from the server. > > This stuff doesn't even require to modify in game memory, it's literally invisible for the server. > > > > What the so called "spyware" gathers: > > PROCESS1: a12915a275784ad43945f4eb39edea63 > > PROCESS2: 43372565de379193bd63be9fab205c8d > > PROCESS3: 1d6c556f382800c56ba0235dd7fd735a > > PROCESS4: 7870e8ffc3b7ba8c2ebb03f2c3486728 > > PROCESS5: 02239cef0079a65a634962576c575bb6 > > > > This is what is sent to their server (filtered out) > > PROCESS3: 1d6c556f382800c56ba0235dd7fd735a (ex for CE) > > PROCESS4: 7870e8ffc3b7ba8c2ebb03f2c3486728 (ex for UNF) > > > > And you're talking about privacy violation. > > Again, if you were nearly as cautious as you say you are about your private info, you would understand why this is nothing. On the contrary though, they (and other companies) also log your personal LOGS in game, which there... will contain a LOT more information. > > Again do you agree to a 6 month ban starting tomorrow? > Again address the legality of installing spyware on children's computers > Again please learn the definition of what a social justice warrior actually is > > Someone detecting your gear in a game isn't going outside the actual client to get it. You are arguing in completely the wrong direction. Your spyware gathers section should be Process 1-200 or more most of which aren't even pertaining to the GW2 client. - CF my last post. This is by far the most ridiculous stuff you keep bringing up, and definitely worth calling you cyber-SJW for. Also - Anet can just kick them, and should. - I said cyber-SJW, or a guy that doesn't the difference between what companies CAN do and WILL do. - Obtaining gear of someone else gives you an unfair advantage. Not everything can be server side or lag would be terrible. - In order to compare a list of banned hash you need to... actually generate the hash of your processes first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > Let me be clear. I do not want cheaters in any game nor do I support cheaters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I support more is everyone's right to privacy and their personal property. There are many ways to enforce anti cheating w/out doing what they did. The problem is they very publicly state they are in contact and share your info with online companies who do advertising/research/etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Look at the whole picture. > > > > > > > > > > > > This might have been a big deal 15 years ago you know ... do you understand how much of your information is actually out in cyberspace, even if you just casually surf the web? If your concern for privacy and personal property is so strong that you have a problem with what Anet did here, I'm surprised you're even connected to the internet at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > The solution for you seems really simple to me ... don't patronize companies that use your 'personal' information in cyberspace. > > > > > > > > > > I take very extreme precautions and actions to ensure my privacy. You may not but I do > > > > > > > > You do? Not if you play MMO's you don't. That's not new either. > > > > > > Actually I don't play the more popular MMO's who've been known to use even less invasive anti cheat methods. > > > > > > I take my privacy and invasion of my personal property very seriously > > > > Nevertheless, looks like it's time for you to unplug if your conspiracy theory about Anet taking your personal information and selling it are going to run wild. > > > > > @"ffletcher.3468" said: > > > Check out Axios yesterday - most people in the U.S. think social media sites should be regulated. I'm on a VPN right now, have never belonged to a social media service and fight a (probably futile) fight to keep google at arms length. Some of us take our privacy seriously. If an MMO breaches my privacy it is probably because of people who think they should be able to because "hey everybody does it". > > > > Actually, i think it's more of a case of people are WILLING to give Anet an inch so they can continue to provide them with high quality entertainment. > > I'm all for privacy, but I'm fine with Anet having an anti-cheat system that sees other processes on my PC as long as it only tells Anet when it finds cheat software. This is how Anet's system appears to work. > > Now, I would have a problem, and consider it spyware, if Anet was being sent the full list of processes running on my PC. All of the processes that have nothing to do with cheating in their game are none of their business. This is your right to give up your privacy. I support your stance You cannot expect me to give it up as well. This is the basis of the debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. > > > > > > > > > > What is the ESRB rating of GW2? > > > > > Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? > > > > > > > > > > I thank you all for participating > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't matter, go read the User Agreement and you'll figure out why. > > > > But seeing as you haven't and won't all the while retaining some fantasy land idea that Anet is some big bad evil cooperation for using the tools at its disposal everything you say is moot. > > > > > > Link it > > > > https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-user-agreement/ > > > > Have fun reading. Not doing the rest of your homework for you. > > Looked through that and didn't see anything that supports your argument. > > I may missed it when I originally read through it so I asked for you to maybe post a different one? Again I might not be seeing what you're referencing so please point it out. > > Thanks!! You clearly are playing daft now. So i guess i have to be frank to get it through. >! 9. ACCOUNT ACCESS AND PERMISSIBLE ASSIGNMENT By clicking “I ACCEPT” You warrant and represent that You are: 1) at least 18 years of age and otherwise legally competent to read, understand and accept the provisions of this agreement on behalf of Yourself; 2) at least 18 years of age and otherwise legally competent to read, understand and accept the provisions of this agreement on behalf of Yourself and a minor age 13-17 for whom You are legally permitted to allow access to the Game; or 3) a minor age 13-17 who has been authorized to click “I ACCEPT” under the provisions of Section 9© below. YOU ARE HEREBY FOREWARNED THAT ArenaNet MAY, IN ITS REASONABLE DISCRETION, EXERCISE ITS SECTION 3(b) RIGHT TO TERMINATE BASED ON FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH THE CRITERIA ABOVE. Each Account may only be used by one person. If a minor has been allowed access to an Account under Section 9© below, only that minor may use the Account thereafter. Except as provided in Section 9© below, You may not make any assignment or transfer of rights, obligations or liabilities related to this agreement and any attempt by You to do so is null and void. If You are at least 18 years of age and otherwise legally competent to read, understand and accept the provisions of this agreement on behalf of Yourself and a minor age 13-17 for whom You are legally permitted to allow access to the Game, You can choose to allow use of Your Account by that minor instead of Yourself subject to the following provisions: You acknowledge, and further agree, that each and every time that minor clicks “I ACCEPT” they are entering into an agreement with Your consent and on Your behalf; You acknowledge, and further agree, that each and every time that minor clicks “I ACCEPT” You are responsible for all the provisions they have agreed to on Your behalf; You acknowledge, and further agree, that each and every time that minor clicks “I ACCEPT” You are legally responsible for all actions of that minor, including but not limited to any payments, damages and/or liabilities related to the actions of that minor; It is acknowledged and further agreed by the adult that both the adult and the minor are bound by all provisions of any agreement for which that minor clicks “I ACCEPT” and that the adult has explained the provisions of this Section 9 to the minor, including the fact that both the adult and the minor are jointly and severally responsible under all the provisions of this agreement. Accordingly, it is acknowledged and further agreed that the definition of “You” under this agreement includes both the adult at least 18 years of age and otherwise legally competent to read, understand and accept the provisions of this agreement on behalf of themselves, as well as the minor age 13-17 for whom the adult is legally permitted to allow access to the Game; In consideration for ArenaNet allowing access to the Game by a minor, and in addition to the provisions of Section 13 below, the foregoing adult hereby guarantees and agrees to pay for any and all liabilities of any nature whatsoever incurred under this agreement and to defend, indemnify and hold harmless ArenaNet with respect thereto; and The foregoing adult acknowledges and understands that this guarantee is a continuing, unconditional, and irrevocable guarantee to pay for and to defend, indemnify and hold harmless ArenaNet with respect to any claim related to such liabilities. All rights, remedies, and recourses afforded ArenaNet by reason of this guarantee or otherwise are separate, cumulative, and non-exclusive. Such rights, remedies, and recourses may be pursued separately, successively, or concurrently, and any action taken by ArenaNet with respect to such rights, remedies, and recourses shall in no way limit or prejudice any other legal or equitable right, remedy, or recourse which ArenaNet may have. You acknowledge that the Game is not intended for minors under age 13, and You will not allow access to the Game, or the viewing of any display thereof, by any minor under age 13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > > Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is the ESRB rating of GW2? > > > > > > > > Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thank you all for participating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see everyone is ignoring this post b/c they know where it'll go huh? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's go > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone? > > > > > > > > > > > > It would probably only end up accounts being terminated because the person that agreed to the ToS was not legally able to to so. The ToS itself lays out the requirements for valid entry into the terms of the agreement. If anyone were to suffer any legal consequences, it would almost certainly be the parent/guardian of the minor. > > > > > > > > > > The game is marketed to underage people. This means that you do not have to be 18 to purchase GW2 and install it onto your computer. > > > > > > > > > > The company then installs spyware onto the underage & unable to give consent person stating they are legally able to b/c they got consent. > > > > > > > > > > Get where I'm going now? > > > > > > > > The parent/guardian is legally responsible for the actions of their child. They permitted them to buy the game, install it, and agree to the ToS. Not being aware of what the child is doing does not absolve them of that responsibility, it makes them negligent. > > > > > > Yes but they went by the ESRB rating which was marketed to the underage child. Again start looking at your argument against other crimes against children. Having a child sign a ToS/EULA won't absolve the criminal who targeted the child. Read their privacy statement and then come back > > > > Sorry ... what 'underage' children are you refering to? GW2 is rated TEEN, that's 13 YO. Are we going to add 'marketing' to your list of abused words now as well? How is Anet marketing GW2 to children under 13, getting them to buy, install and play the game ... all without their (negligent) parent's knowledge? > > A 13 year old is an underage child. Do you honestly think a 13 year old is able to give consent?!!??!!! > Underage ... I guess we can add that word to your 'abused' as well. Underage for what? Is that just a convenient label you applied to make another fantastic argument here? You know what IS interesting though ... Anet has a privacy policy. you should read it; it might save some time; it's in that thing called the UA that you told us isn't relevant in your country. It talks about everything we are discussing, including 'underage' children and how their privacy relates to the game. It brings up a good question; if the UA isn't valid where you are, why would you expect it to protect you as a client? Seems to me that I would be moving out of whatever country that is real fast if I was so seriously concerned about my privacy and things that have User Agreements on the internet. /shrug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PyrateSilly.4710 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 The only way to have privacy - complete privacy - is to live completely off the grid on a very large piece of property with no one around you to see you and document your day. If you are not doing that and are online doing things then you have no real privacy, no matter what you think you have done to protect yourself from being found and your privacy destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > > Let me be clear. I do not want cheaters in any game nor do I support cheaters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I support more is everyone's right to privacy and their personal property. There are many ways to enforce anti cheating w/out doing what they did. The problem is they very publicly state they are in contact and share your info with online companies who do advertising/research/etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Look at the whole picture. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This might have been a big deal 15 years ago you know ... do you understand how much of your information is actually out in cyberspace, even if you just casually surf the web? If your concern for privacy and personal property is so strong that you have a problem with what Anet did here, I'm surprised you're even connected to the internet at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The solution for you seems really simple to me ... don't patronize companies that use your 'personal' information in cyberspace. > > > > > > > > > > > > I take very extreme precautions and actions to ensure my privacy. You may not but I do > > > > > > > > > > You do? Not if you play MMO's you don't. That's not new either. > > > > > > > > Actually I don't play the more popular MMO's who've been known to use even less invasive anti cheat methods. > > > > > > > > I take my privacy and invasion of my personal property very seriously > > > > > > So you're using Tails, right? You're not on Windows, right? How do you play the game then? > > > > > > Also, explain to me how they can detect if someone is checking the gear of others in pvp match from the server. > > > This stuff doesn't even require to modify in game memory, it's literally invisible for the server. > > > > > > What the so called "spyware" gathers: > > > PROCESS1: a12915a275784ad43945f4eb39edea63 > > > PROCESS2: 43372565de379193bd63be9fab205c8d > > > PROCESS3: 1d6c556f382800c56ba0235dd7fd735a > > > PROCESS4: 7870e8ffc3b7ba8c2ebb03f2c3486728 > > > PROCESS5: 02239cef0079a65a634962576c575bb6 > > > > > > This is what is sent to their server (filtered out) > > > PROCESS3: 1d6c556f382800c56ba0235dd7fd735a (ex for CE) > > > PROCESS4: 7870e8ffc3b7ba8c2ebb03f2c3486728 (ex for UNF) > > > > > > And you're talking about privacy violation. > > > Again, if you were nearly as cautious as you say you are about your private info, you would understand why this is nothing. On the contrary though, they (and other companies) also log your personal LOGS in game, which there... will contain a LOT more information. > > > > Again do you agree to a 6 month ban starting tomorrow? > > Again address the legality of installing spyware on children's computers > > Again please learn the definition of what a social justice warrior actually is > > > > Someone detecting your gear in a game isn't going outside the actual client to get it. You are arguing in completely the wrong direction. Your spyware gathers section should be Process 1-200 or more most of which aren't even pertaining to the GW2 client. > > - CF my last post. This is by far the most ridiculous stuff you keep bringing up, and definitely worth calling you cyber-kitten for. Also > - Anet can just kick them, and should. > - I said cyber-kitten, or a guy that doesn't the difference between what companies CAN do and WILL do. > > - Obtaining gear of someone else gives you an unfair advantage. Not everything can be server side or lag would be terrible. > - In order to compare a list of banned hash you need to... actually generate the hash of your processes first. Again you need to learn the definition of the terms you apply to people. We both agree that cheating is bad. We differ in opinion that giving up innocent people's privacy is a good thing to catch a minority of people especially when there are less intrusive ways to do it. I think we all need to calm down. I also think the apologists need to understand most people in the world value privacy way more then they do. There are rights and laws in each country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoSundown.5419 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > > > > Its accepted as the truth because it's been proven. > > > > > > > > > > Anet never proved a single person cheated > > > > > > > > You're basing your "proven" and "truth" claims on an announcement by the community moderator and information given to people whose accounts were suspended. That does not constitute proof that ANet didn't check further into individual cases, and just opted not to tell anyone the other steps they took. If I were communicating with people I knew had hacked the game, there's no way I would tell them anything I didn't have to. > > > > > > It's been confirmed that even having a process open would ping the spyware. > > > > No one knows, except ANet, what ANet did _after_ they received the data showing process X was running on User Y's computer concurrently with GW2 for Z time. Come back when you've got that info. Until then, or unless ANet says more, you have no proof. > > No the program was read as to what it did by someone who does it for a living. It was also confirmed once they saw it read the processes not related to the GW2 client. > > Again all fact So what happened to the data sent to the server? That's right, the reverse engineer does not know, and you don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > You know what IS interesting though ... Anet has a privacy policy. you should read it; it might save some time; it's in that thing called the UA that you told us isn't relevant in your country. It talks about everything we are discussing, including 'underage' children and how their privacy relates to the game. It brings up a good question; if the UA isn't valid where you are, why would you expect it to protect you as a client? Ironically, where he is as stated by his read washington's privacy laws is exactly where Anet's lawyers are and like whom they consulted with when drafting the User Agreement to begin with. So unless Bellevue, WA magically teleported to North Korea it's unlikely that the laws concerning his complaint are being infringed on in any way shape or form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > > > Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is the ESRB rating of GW2? > > > > > > > > > Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thank you all for participating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see everyone is ignoring this post b/c they know where it'll go huh? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's go > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It would probably only end up accounts being terminated because the person that agreed to the ToS was not legally able to to so. The ToS itself lays out the requirements for valid entry into the terms of the agreement. If anyone were to suffer any legal consequences, it would almost certainly be the parent/guardian of the minor. > > > > > > > > > > > > The game is marketed to underage people. This means that you do not have to be 18 to purchase GW2 and install it onto your computer. > > > > > > > > > > > > The company then installs spyware onto the underage & unable to give consent person stating they are legally able to b/c they got consent. > > > > > > > > > > > > Get where I'm going now? > > > > > > > > > > The parent/guardian is legally responsible for the actions of their child. They permitted them to buy the game, install it, and agree to the ToS. Not being aware of what the child is doing does not absolve them of that responsibility, it makes them negligent. > > > > > > > > Yes but they went by the ESRB rating which was marketed to the underage child. Again start looking at your argument against other crimes against children. Having a child sign a ToS/EULA won't absolve the criminal who targeted the child. Read their privacy statement and then come back > > > > > > Sorry ... what 'underage' children are you refering to? GW2 is rated TEEN, that's 13 YO. Are we going to add 'marketing' to your list of abused words now as well? How is Anet marketing GW2 to children under 13, getting them to buy, install and play the game ... all without their (negligent) parent's knowledge? > > > > A 13 year old is an underage child. Do you honestly think a 13 year old is able to give consent?!!??!!! > > > Underage ... I guess we can add that word to your 'abused' as well. Underage for what? Is that just a convenient label you applied to make another fantastic argument here? > > You know what IS interesting though ... Anet has a privacy policy. you should read it; it might save some time; it's in that thing called the UA that you told us isn't relevant in your country. It talks about everything we are discussing, including 'underage' children and how their privacy relates to the game. It brings up a good question; if the UA isn't valid where you are, why would you expect it to protect you as a client? Seems to me that I would be moving out of whatever country that is real fast if I was so seriously concerned about my privacy and things that have User Agreements on the internet. /shrug Start linking start quoting. I normally go the extra mile myself but you seem to believe a 13 year old isn't a child and can give consent. Also please don't assume things about me or "put words in my mouth" Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrstealth.6701 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > Let me be clear. I do not want cheaters in any game nor do I support cheaters. > > What I support more is everyone's right to privacy and their personal property. There are many ways to enforce anti cheating w/out doing what they did. The problem is they very publicly state they are in contact and share your info with online companies who do advertising/research/etc. > > Look at the whole picture. I'm fairly certain the whole "sharing with advertisers/analytics" part of the privacy policy only applies to the website and other non-game services. So any data Anet may collect from it's anti-cheat tool doesn't leave the company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > > > > Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is the ESRB rating of GW2? > > > > > > > > > > Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thank you all for participating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see everyone is ignoring this post b/c they know where it'll go huh? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's go > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It would probably only end up accounts being terminated because the person that agreed to the ToS was not legally able to to so. The ToS itself lays out the requirements for valid entry into the terms of the agreement. If anyone were to suffer any legal consequences, it would almost certainly be the parent/guardian of the minor. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The game is marketed to underage people. This means that you do not have to be 18 to purchase GW2 and install it onto your computer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The company then installs spyware onto the underage & unable to give consent person stating they are legally able to b/c they got consent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get where I'm going now? > > > > > > > > > > > > The parent/guardian is legally responsible for the actions of their child. They permitted them to buy the game, install it, and agree to the ToS. Not being aware of what the child is doing does not absolve them of that responsibility, it makes them negligent. > > > > > > > > > > Yes but they went by the ESRB rating which was marketed to the underage child. Again start looking at your argument against other crimes against children. Having a child sign a ToS/EULA won't absolve the criminal who targeted the child. Read their privacy statement and then come back > > > > > > > > Sorry ... what 'underage' children are you refering to? GW2 is rated TEEN, that's 13 YO. Are we going to add 'marketing' to your list of abused words now as well? How is Anet marketing GW2 to children under 13, getting them to buy, install and play the game ... all without their (negligent) parent's knowledge? > > > > > > A 13 year old is an underage child. Do you honestly think a 13 year old is able to give consent?!!??!!! > > > > > Underage ... I guess we can add that word to your 'abused' as well. Underage for what? Is that just a convenient label you applied to make another fantastic argument here? > > > > You know what IS interesting though ... Anet has a privacy policy. you should read it; it might save some time; it's in that thing called the UA that you told us isn't relevant in your country. It talks about everything we are discussing, including 'underage' children and how their privacy relates to the game. It brings up a good question; if the UA isn't valid where you are, why would you expect it to protect you as a client? Seems to me that I would be moving out of whatever country that is real fast if I was so seriously concerned about my privacy and things that have User Agreements on the internet. /shrug > > Start linking start quoting. > > I normally go the extra mile myself but you seem to believe a 13 year old isn't a child and can give consent. > > Also please don't assume things about me or "put words in my mouth" > > Thank you I don't have to assume things about you ... you told us these things, various times, clearly. I mean, you don't seem to get that the UA protects you and Anet at the same time; you outright dismissed it because of where you live ... now you're finding 'problems' with how the game deals with things like privacy, age and cheating ... and all these things that are outlined in it ... that's not a coincidence at all. You just play whatever side of the coin works in your favour. This is just conspiracy theory running wild. Frankly, it's all rather contradictory to me ... you take your privacy super seriously ... and play MMO's and be connected to the internet, continue patronizing organizations that you feel violate you privacy, yet have no idea what their privacy policy is or where to find it when you agree to the UA or question it. Personally, I think you're just making a stubborn fuss because it bothers you that you have these obviously contradictory positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. > > > > > > > > > > > > What is the ESRB rating of GW2? > > > > > > Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? > > > > > > > > > > > > I thank you all for participating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't matter, go read the User Agreement and you'll figure out why. > > > > > But seeing as you haven't and won't all the while retaining some fantasy land idea that Anet is some big bad evil cooperation for using the tools at its disposal everything you say is moot. > > > > > > > > Link it > > > > > > https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-user-agreement/ > > > > > > Have fun reading. Not doing the rest of your homework for you. > > > > Looked through that and didn't see anything that supports your argument. > > > > I may missed it when I originally read through it so I asked for you to maybe post a different one? Again I might not be seeing what you're referencing so please point it out. > > > > Thanks!! > > You clearly are playing daft now. So i guess i have to be frank to get it through. > >! 9. ACCOUNT ACCESS AND PERMISSIBLE ASSIGNMENT By clicking “I ACCEPT” You warrant and represent that You are: 1) at least 18 years of age and otherwise legally competent to read, understand and accept the provisions of this agreement on behalf of Yourself; 2) at least 18 years of age and otherwise legally competent to read, understand and accept the provisions of this agreement on behalf of Yourself and a minor age 13-17 for whom You are legally permitted to allow access to the Game; or 3) a minor age 13-17 who has been authorized to click “I ACCEPT” under the provisions of Section 9© below. YOU ARE HEREBY FOREWARNED THAT ArenaNet MAY, IN ITS REASONABLE DISCRETION, EXERCISE ITS SECTION 3(b) RIGHT TO TERMINATE BASED ON FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH THE CRITERIA ABOVE. Each Account may only be used by one person. If a minor has been allowed access to an Account under Section 9© below, only that minor may use the Account thereafter. Except as provided in Section 9© below, You may not make any assignment or transfer of rights, obligations or liabilities related to this agreement and any attempt by You to do so is null and void. If You are at least 18 years of age and otherwise legally competent to read, understand and accept the provisions of this agreement on behalf of Yourself and a minor age 13-17 for whom You are legally permitted to allow access to the Game, You can choose to allow use of Your Account by that minor instead of Yourself subject to the following provisions: You acknowledge, and further agree, that each and every time that minor clicks “I ACCEPT” they are entering into an agreement with Your consent and on Your behalf; You acknowledge, and further agree, that each and every time that minor clicks “I ACCEPT” You are responsible for all the provisions they have agreed to on Your behalf; You acknowledge, and further agree, that each and every time that minor clicks “I ACCEPT” You are legally responsible for all actions of that minor, including but not limited to any payments, damages and/or liabilities related to the actions of that minor; It is acknowledged and further agreed by the adult that both the adult and the minor are bound by all provisions of any agreement for which that minor clicks “I ACCEPT” and that the adult has explained the provisions of this Section 9 to the minor, including the fact that both the adult and the minor are jointly and severally responsible under all the provisions of this agreement. Accordingly, it is acknowledged and further agreed that the definition of “You” under this agreement includes both the adult at least 18 years of age and otherwise legally competent to read, understand and accept the provisions of this agreement on behalf of themselves, as well as the minor age 13-17 for whom the adult is legally permitted to allow access to the Game; In consideration for ArenaNet allowing access to the Game by a minor, and in addition to the provisions of Section 13 below, the foregoing adult hereby guarantees and agrees to pay for any and all liabilities of any nature whatsoever incurred under this agreement and to defend, indemnify and hold harmless ArenaNet with respect thereto; and The foregoing adult acknowledges and understands that this guarantee is a continuing, unconditional, and irrevocable guarantee to pay for and to defend, indemnify and hold harmless ArenaNet with respect to any claim related to such liabilities. All rights, remedies, and recourses afforded ArenaNet by reason of this guarantee or otherwise are separate, cumulative, and non-exclusive. Such rights, remedies, and recourses may be pursued separately, successively, or concurrently, and any action taken by ArenaNet with respect to such rights, remedies, and recourses shall in no way limit or prejudice any other legal or equitable right, remedy, or recourse which ArenaNet may have. You acknowledge that the Game is not intended for minors under age 13, and You will not allow access to the Game, or the viewing of any display thereof, by any minor under age 13. > > I read that but it doesn't protect them installing spyware. The game is legally bought by children. Anyone 13 years of age can walk into a video game store and buy GW2. Installing spyware onto a computer in Washington state w/out consent is illegal. The fact that a underage child can buy GW2 since it is rated TEEN pretty much negates the impunity to legal ramifications of breaking that law. Imagine a child walking into a store and buying a bottle of Coke. They open the coke and drink some then set it aside. The company then pours rum into the bottle. Now the child signed a contract saying they are of legal age to drink and gave permission for Coca-cola to add random stuff to their beverage. So by your argument that is legal. Do you understand now the flaw in your argument. If the game was rated M for mature then you'd have an argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoSundown.5419 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > Looked through that and didn't see anything that supports your argument. > > I may missed it when I originally read through it so I asked for you to maybe post a different one? Again I might not be seeing what you're referencing so please point it out. > > Thanks!! 9. ACCOUNT ACCESS AND PERMISSIBLE ASSIGNMENT By clicking “I ACCEPT” You warrant and represent that You are: 1) at least 18 years of age and otherwise legally competent to read, understand and accept the provisions of this agreement on behalf of Yourself; 2) at least 18 years of age and otherwise legally competent to read, understand and accept the provisions of this agreement on behalf of Yourself and a minor age 13-17 for whom You are legally permitted to allow access to the Game; or 3) a minor age 13-17 who has been authorized to click “I ACCEPT” under the provisions of Section 9© below. YOU ARE HEREBY FOREWARNED THAT ArenaNet MAY, IN ITS REASONABLE DISCRETION, EXERCISE ITS SECTION 3(b) RIGHT TO TERMINATE BASED ON FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH THE CRITERIA ABOVE. Each Account may only be used by one person. If a minor has been allowed access to an Account under Section 9© below, only that minor may use the Account thereafter. Except as provided in Section 9© below, You may not make any assignment or transfer of rights, obligations or liabilities related to this agreement and any attempt by You to do so is null and void. If You are at least 18 years of age and otherwise legally competent to read, understand and accept the provisions of this agreement on behalf of Yourself and a minor age 13-17 for whom You are legally permitted to allow access to the Game, You can choose to allow use of Your Account by that minor instead of Yourself subject to the following provisions: You acknowledge, and further agree, that each and every time that minor clicks “I ACCEPT” they are entering into an agreement with Your consent and on Your behalf; You acknowledge, and further agree, that each and every time that minor clicks “I ACCEPT” You are responsible for all the provisions they have agreed to on Your behalf; You acknowledge, and further agree, that each and every time that minor clicks “I ACCEPT” You are legally responsible for all actions of that minor, including but not limited to any payments, damages and/or liabilities related to the actions of that minor; It is acknowledged and further agreed by the adult that both the adult and the minor are bound by all provisions of any agreement for which that minor clicks “I ACCEPT” and that the adult has explained the provisions of this Section 9 to the minor, including the fact that both the adult and the minor are jointly and severally responsible under all the provisions of this agreement. Accordingly, it is acknowledged and further agreed that the definition of “You” under this agreement includes both the adult at least 18 years of age and otherwise legally competent to read, understand and accept the provisions of this agreement on behalf of themselves, as well as the minor age 13-17 for whom the adult is legally permitted to allow access to the Game; In consideration for ArenaNet allowing access to the Game by a minor, and in addition to the provisions of Section 13 below, the foregoing adult hereby guarantees and agrees to pay for any and all liabilities of any nature whatsoever incurred under this agreement and to defend, indemnify and hold harmless ArenaNet with respect thereto; and The foregoing adult acknowledges and understands that this guarantee is a continuing, unconditional, and irrevocable guarantee to pay for and to defend, indemnify and hold harmless ArenaNet with respect to any claim related to such liabilities. All rights, remedies, and recourses afforded ArenaNet by reason of this guarantee or otherwise are separate, cumulative, and non-exclusive. Such rights, remedies, and recourses may be pursued separately, successively, or concurrently, and any action taken by ArenaNet with respect to such rights, remedies, and recourses shall in no way limit or prejudice any other legal or equitable right, remedy, or recourse which ArenaNet may have. > @"Jinks.2057" said: > Let me be clear. I do not want cheaters in any game nor do I support cheaters. > > What I support more is everyone's right to privacy and their personal property. There are many ways to enforce anti cheating w/out doing what they did. The problem is they very publicly state they are in contact and share your info with online companies who do advertising/research/etc. Where is that? I can't seem to find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is the ESRB rating of GW2? > > > > > > > Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thank you all for participating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't matter, go read the User Agreement and you'll figure out why. > > > > > > But seeing as you haven't and won't all the while retaining some fantasy land idea that Anet is some big bad evil cooperation for using the tools at its disposal everything you say is moot. > > > > > > > > > > Link it > > > > > > > > https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-user-agreement/ > > > > > > > > Have fun reading. Not doing the rest of your homework for you. > > > > > > Looked through that and didn't see anything that supports your argument. > > > > > > I may missed it when I originally read through it so I asked for you to maybe post a different one? Again I might not be seeing what you're referencing so please point it out. > > > > > > Thanks!! > > > > You clearly are playing daft now. So i guess i have to be frank to get it through. > > >! 9. ACCOUNT ACCESS AND PERMISSIBLE ASSIGNMENT By clicking “I ACCEPT” You warrant and represent that You are: 1) at least 18 years of age and otherwise legally competent to read, understand and accept the provisions of this agreement on behalf of Yourself; 2) at least 18 years of age and otherwise legally competent to read, understand and accept the provisions of this agreement on behalf of Yourself and a minor age 13-17 for whom You are legally permitted to allow access to the Game; or 3) a minor age 13-17 who has been authorized to click “I ACCEPT” under the provisions of Section 9© below. YOU ARE HEREBY FOREWARNED THAT ArenaNet MAY, IN ITS REASONABLE DISCRETION, EXERCISE ITS SECTION 3(b) RIGHT TO TERMINATE BASED ON FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH THE CRITERIA ABOVE. Each Account may only be used by one person. If a minor has been allowed access to an Account under Section 9© below, only that minor may use the Account thereafter. Except as provided in Section 9© below, You may not make any assignment or transfer of rights, obligations or liabilities related to this agreement and any attempt by You to do so is null and void. If You are at least 18 years of age and otherwise legally competent to read, understand and accept the provisions of this agreement on behalf of Yourself and a minor age 13-17 for whom You are legally permitted to allow access to the Game, You can choose to allow use of Your Account by that minor instead of Yourself subject to the following provisions: You acknowledge, and further agree, that each and every time that minor clicks “I ACCEPT” they are entering into an agreement with Your consent and on Your behalf; You acknowledge, and further agree, that each and every time that minor clicks “I ACCEPT” You are responsible for all the provisions they have agreed to on Your behalf; You acknowledge, and further agree, that each and every time that minor clicks “I ACCEPT” You are legally responsible for all actions of that minor, including but not limited to any payments, damages and/or liabilities related to the actions of that minor; It is acknowledged and further agreed by the adult that both the adult and the minor are bound by all provisions of any agreement for which that minor clicks “I ACCEPT” and that the adult has explained the provisions of this Section 9 to the minor, including the fact that both the adult and the minor are jointly and severally responsible under all the provisions of this agreement. Accordingly, it is acknowledged and further agreed that the definition of “You” under this agreement includes both the adult at least 18 years of age and otherwise legally competent to read, understand and accept the provisions of this agreement on behalf of themselves, as well as the minor age 13-17 for whom the adult is legally permitted to allow access to the Game; In consideration for ArenaNet allowing access to the Game by a minor, and in addition to the provisions of Section 13 below, the foregoing adult hereby guarantees and agrees to pay for any and all liabilities of any nature whatsoever incurred under this agreement and to defend, indemnify and hold harmless ArenaNet with respect thereto; and The foregoing adult acknowledges and understands that this guarantee is a continuing, unconditional, and irrevocable guarantee to pay for and to defend, indemnify and hold harmless ArenaNet with respect to any claim related to such liabilities. All rights, remedies, and recourses afforded ArenaNet by reason of this guarantee or otherwise are separate, cumulative, and non-exclusive. Such rights, remedies, and recourses may be pursued separately, successively, or concurrently, and any action taken by ArenaNet with respect to such rights, remedies, and recourses shall in no way limit or prejudice any other legal or equitable right, remedy, or recourse which ArenaNet may have. You acknowledge that the Game is not intended for minors under age 13, and You will not allow access to the Game, or the viewing of any display thereof, by any minor under age 13. > > > > > > I read that but it doesn't protect them installing spyware. The game is legally bought by children. Anyone 13 years of age can walk into a video game store and buy GW2. > > Installing spyware onto a computer in Washington state w/out consent is illegal. The fact that a underage child can buy GW2 since it is rated TEEN pretty much negates the impunity to legal ramifications of breaking that law. > > Imagine a child walking into a store and buying a bottle of Coke. They open the coke and drink some then set it aside. The company then pours rum into the bottle. Now the child signed a contract saying they are of legal age to drink and gave permission for Coca-cola to add random stuff to their beverage. So by your argument that is legal. > > Do you understand now the flaw in your argument. If the game was rated M for mature then you'd have an argument. Okay it's clear as day you either cannot read, wont read or cannot comprehend what's written in the user agreement. If you are not of legal age to create an account, then you must have a legal guardian who can. A legal guardian is always over the age of 18. Once they give consent for you it doesnt matter because you've consented to all terms, not some. If you are 13 and clicked okay anyway then you lied and the contract is voided. Additionally the game stated in pretty clear as day terms "You acknowledge that the Game is not intended for minors under age 13, and You will not allow access to the Game, or the viewing of any display thereof, by any minor under age 13." Again if you're found to be underage, or lying you violated the contract and Anet can terminate for that alone, leaving the net result being worse than if you had actually cheated. So spare me the "Think of the children" defense. It doesn't hold a cup of water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > Let me be clear. I do not want cheaters in any game nor do I support cheaters. > > > > What I support more is everyone's right to privacy and their personal property. There are many ways to enforce anti cheating w/out doing what they did. The problem is they very publicly state they are in contact and share your info with online companies who do advertising/research/etc. > > > > Look at the whole picture. > > I'm fairly certain the whole "sharing with advertisers/analytics" part of the privacy policy only applies to the website and other non-game services. So any data Anet may collect from it's anti-cheat tool doesn't leave the company. **Your privacy is important to ArenaNet. Maintaining the trust of our users is key to the success of our business, and this Privacy Policy is intended to inform you of our information collection and use while visiting our website and playing ArenaNet games. For your information and for the purposes of this Privacy Policy, ArenaNet, LLC is the data controller and your Personal Information (as defined below) may be handled and otherwise processed by NC Interactive, LLC and NCsoft Europe Limited in providing various ArenaNet services to you** Opening paragraph mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > > Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is the ESRB rating of GW2? > > > > > > > > Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thank you all for participating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see everyone is ignoring this post b/c they know where it'll go huh? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's go > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone? > > > > > > > > > > > > It would probably only end up accounts being terminated because the person that agreed to the ToS was not legally able to to so. The ToS itself lays out the requirements for valid entry into the terms of the agreement. If anyone were to suffer any legal consequences, it would almost certainly be the parent/guardian of the minor. > > > > > > > > > > The game is marketed to underage people. This means that you do not have to be 18 to purchase GW2 and install it onto your computer. > > > > > > > > > > The company then installs spyware onto the underage & unable to give consent person stating they are legally able to b/c they got consent. > > > > > > > > > > Get where I'm going now? > > > > > > > > The parent/guardian is legally responsible for the actions of their child. They permitted them to buy the game, install it, and agree to the ToS. Not being aware of what the child is doing does not absolve them of that responsibility, it makes them negligent. > > > > > > Yes but they went by the ESRB rating which was marketed to the underage child. Again start looking at your argument against other crimes against children. Having a child sign a ToS/EULA won't absolve the criminal who targeted the child. Read their privacy statement and then come back > > > > Sorry ... what 'underage' children are you refering to? GW2 is rated TEEN, that's 13 YO. Are we going to add 'marketing' to your list of abused words now as well? How is Anet marketing GW2 to children under 13, getting them to buy, install and play the game ... all without their (negligent) parent's knowledge? > > A 13 year old is an underage child. Do you honestly think a 13 year old is able to give consent?!!??!!! > Nope. A 13 year old cannot give consent and so, unless their parent agreed to the ToS for them, they were never allowed to access the game servers. If the 13 year old agreed to the ToS, he committed an act of fraud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > > Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is the ESRB rating of GW2? > > > > > > > > Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thank you all for participating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't matter, go read the User Agreement and you'll figure out why. > > > > > > > But seeing as you haven't and won't all the while retaining some fantasy land idea that Anet is some big bad evil cooperation for using the tools at its disposal everything you say is moot. > > > > > > > > > > > > Link it > > > > > > > > > > https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-user-agreement/ > > > > > > > > > > Have fun reading. Not doing the rest of your homework for you. > > > > > > > > Looked through that and didn't see anything that supports your argument. > > > > > > > > I may missed it when I originally read through it so I asked for you to maybe post a different one? Again I might not be seeing what you're referencing so please point it out. > > > > > > > > Thanks!! > > > > > > You clearly are playing daft now. So i guess i have to be frank to get it through. > > > >! 9. ACCOUNT ACCESS AND PERMISSIBLE ASSIGNMENT By clicking “I ACCEPT” You warrant and represent that You are: 1) at least 18 years of age and otherwise legally competent to read, understand and accept the provisions of this agreement on behalf of Yourself; 2) at least 18 years of age and otherwise legally competent to read, understand and accept the provisions of this agreement on behalf of Yourself and a minor age 13-17 for whom You are legally permitted to allow access to the Game; or 3) a minor age 13-17 who has been authorized to click “I ACCEPT” under the provisions of Section 9© below. YOU ARE HEREBY FOREWARNED THAT ArenaNet MAY, IN ITS REASONABLE DISCRETION, EXERCISE ITS SECTION 3(b) RIGHT TO TERMINATE BASED ON FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH THE CRITERIA ABOVE. Each Account may only be used by one person. If a minor has been allowed access to an Account under Section 9© below, only that minor may use the Account thereafter. Except as provided in Section 9© below, You may not make any assignment or transfer of rights, obligations or liabilities related to this agreement and any attempt by You to do so is null and void. If You are at least 18 years of age and otherwise legally competent to read, understand and accept the provisions of this agreement on behalf of Yourself and a minor age 13-17 for whom You are legally permitted to allow access to the Game, You can choose to allow use of Your Account by that minor instead of Yourself subject to the following provisions: You acknowledge, and further agree, that each and every time that minor clicks “I ACCEPT” they are entering into an agreement with Your consent and on Your behalf; You acknowledge, and further agree, that each and every time that minor clicks “I ACCEPT” You are responsible for all the provisions they have agreed to on Your behalf; You acknowledge, and further agree, that each and every time that minor clicks “I ACCEPT” You are legally responsible for all actions of that minor, including but not limited to any payments, damages and/or liabilities related to the actions of that minor; It is acknowledged and further agreed by the adult that both the adult and the minor are bound by all provisions of any agreement for which that minor clicks “I ACCEPT” and that the adult has explained the provisions of this Section 9 to the minor, including the fact that both the adult and the minor are jointly and severally responsible under all the provisions of this agreement. Accordingly, it is acknowledged and further agreed that the definition of “You” under this agreement includes both the adult at least 18 years of age and otherwise legally competent to read, understand and accept the provisions of this agreement on behalf of themselves, as well as the minor age 13-17 for whom the adult is legally permitted to allow access to the Game; In consideration for ArenaNet allowing access to the Game by a minor, and in addition to the provisions of Section 13 below, the foregoing adult hereby guarantees and agrees to pay for any and all liabilities of any nature whatsoever incurred under this agreement and to defend, indemnify and hold harmless ArenaNet with respect thereto; and The foregoing adult acknowledges and understands that this guarantee is a continuing, unconditional, and irrevocable guarantee to pay for and to defend, indemnify and hold harmless ArenaNet with respect to any claim related to such liabilities. All rights, remedies, and recourses afforded ArenaNet by reason of this guarantee or otherwise are separate, cumulative, and non-exclusive. Such rights, remedies, and recourses may be pursued separately, successively, or concurrently, and any action taken by ArenaNet with respect to such rights, remedies, and recourses shall in no way limit or prejudice any other legal or equitable right, remedy, or recourse which ArenaNet may have. You acknowledge that the Game is not intended for minors under age 13, and You will not allow access to the Game, or the viewing of any display thereof, by any minor under age 13. > > > > > > > > > > I read that but it doesn't protect them installing spyware. The game is legally bought by children. Anyone 13 years of age can walk into a video game store and buy GW2. > > > > Installing spyware onto a computer in Washington state w/out consent is illegal. The fact that a underage child can buy GW2 since it is rated TEEN pretty much negates the impunity to legal ramifications of breaking that law. > > > > Imagine a child walking into a store and buying a bottle of Coke. They open the coke and drink some then set it aside. The company then pours rum into the bottle. Now the child signed a contract saying they are of legal age to drink and gave permission for Coca-cola to add random stuff to their beverage. So by your argument that is legal. > > > > Do you understand now the flaw in your argument. If the game was rated M for mature then you'd have an argument. > > Okay it's clear as day you either cannot read, wont read or cannot comprehend what's written in the user agreement. > > If you are not of legal age to create an account, then you must have a legal guardian who can. A legal guardian is always over the age of 18. Once they give consent for you it doesnt matter because you've consented to all terms, not some. > > If you are 13 and clicked okay anyway then you lied and the contract is voided. > > Additionally the game stated in pretty clear as day terms "You acknowledge that the Game is not intended for minors under age 13, and You will not allow access to the Game, or the viewing of any display thereof, by any minor under age 13." > Again if you're found to be underage, or lying you violated the contract and Anet can terminate for that alone, leaving the net result being worse than if you had actually cheated. > > So spare me the "Think of the children" defense. It doesn't hold a cup of water. The game is marketed to and legally bought by underage children. You are not addressing this. It doesn't matter if it says you need an adult to make an account. Address the real issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > > > Also no one has brought up a VERY important fact about the legality of what they did. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is the ESRB rating of GW2? > > > > > > > > > Did you verify you are of the age of consent before agreeing to the ToS/EULA? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thank you all for participating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I see everyone is ignoring this post b/c they know where it'll go huh? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's go > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It would probably only end up accounts being terminated because the person that agreed to the ToS was not legally able to to so. The ToS itself lays out the requirements for valid entry into the terms of the agreement. If anyone were to suffer any legal consequences, it would almost certainly be the parent/guardian of the minor. > > > > > > > > > > > > The game is marketed to underage people. This means that you do not have to be 18 to purchase GW2 and install it onto your computer. > > > > > > > > > > > > The company then installs spyware onto the underage & unable to give consent person stating they are legally able to b/c they got consent. > > > > > > > > > > > > Get where I'm going now? > > > > > > > > > > The parent/guardian is legally responsible for the actions of their child. They permitted them to buy the game, install it, and agree to the ToS. Not being aware of what the child is doing does not absolve them of that responsibility, it makes them negligent. > > > > > > > > Yes but they went by the ESRB rating which was marketed to the underage child. Again start looking at your argument against other crimes against children. Having a child sign a ToS/EULA won't absolve the criminal who targeted the child. Read their privacy statement and then come back > > > > > > Sorry ... what 'underage' children are you refering to? GW2 is rated TEEN, that's 13 YO. Are we going to add 'marketing' to your list of abused words now as well? How is Anet marketing GW2 to children under 13, getting them to buy, install and play the game ... all without their (negligent) parent's knowledge? > > > > A 13 year old is an underage child. Do you honestly think a 13 year old is able to give consent?!!??!!! > > > > Nope. A 13 year old cannot give consent and so, unless their parent agreed to the ToS for them, they were never allowed to access the game servers. If the 13 year old agreed to the ToS, he committed an act of fraud. Nope he's legally allowed to buy the game. There is no fraud since the game is marketed to him. Again if Kool Aid decided to put grain alcohol into their beverages and continued to sell it to kids they'd be in real trouble even if they made the child sign a contract stating they are of age. I'm not saying Anet is giving alcohol to children or if it's nearly as severe...i'm simply saying you can't market to that age group and hope the consent sticks. It's real simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > Let me be clear. I do not want cheaters in any game nor do I support cheaters. > > > > > > What I support more is everyone's right to privacy and their personal property. There are many ways to enforce anti cheating w/out doing what they did. The problem is they very publicly state they are in contact and share your info with online companies who do advertising/research/etc. > > > > > > Look at the whole picture. > > > > I'm fairly certain the whole "sharing with advertisers/analytics" part of the privacy policy only applies to the website and other non-game services. So any data Anet may collect from it's anti-cheat tool doesn't leave the company. > > **Your privacy is important to ArenaNet. Maintaining the trust of our users is key to the success of our business, and this Privacy Policy is intended to inform you of our information collection and use while visiting our website and playing ArenaNet games. For your information and for the purposes of this Privacy Policy, ArenaNet, LLC is the data controller and your Personal Information (as defined below) may be handled and otherwise processed by NC Interactive, LLC and NCsoft Europe Limited in providing various ArenaNet services to you** > > Opening paragraph mate That paragraph supports his position, not yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > Address the real issue. Sure thing. The ESRB is full of themselves and think they are doing an good job when they are stuck in the 90's using the old TV ratings board method of regulation. Additionally, the ESRB is a suggestion not law. So stores are able to sell to whomever they want. That doesn't make Anet liable, infact they're terms indemnify them of Legal actions from illegal usage. But you don't really care about the real issue as you've got easily the biggest tinfoil hat i've seen worn in a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > Address the real issue. > Sure thing. > > The ESRB is full of themselves and think they are doing an good job when they are stuck in the 90's using the old TV ratings board method of regulation. > Additionally, the ESRB is a suggestion not law. > > So stores are able to sell to whomever they want. > That doesn't make Anet liable, infact they're terms indemnify them of Legal actions from illegal usage. > > But you don't really care about the real issue as you've got easily the biggest tinfoil hat i've seen worn in a long time. > > Understanding ... the kind of stuff that crushes Conspiracy Theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > Let me be clear. I do not want cheaters in any game nor do I support cheaters. > > > > > > > > What I support more is everyone's right to privacy and their personal property. There are many ways to enforce anti cheating w/out doing what they did. The problem is they very publicly state they are in contact and share your info with online companies who do advertising/research/etc. > > > > > > > > Look at the whole picture. > > > > > > I'm fairly certain the whole "sharing with advertisers/analytics" part of the privacy policy only applies to the website and other non-game services. So any data Anet may collect from it's anti-cheat tool doesn't leave the company. > > > > **Your privacy is important to ArenaNet. Maintaining the trust of our users is key to the success of our business, and this Privacy Policy is intended to inform you of our information collection and use while visiting our website and playing ArenaNet games. For your information and for the purposes of this Privacy Policy, ArenaNet, LLC is the data controller and your Personal Information (as defined below) may be handled and otherwise processed by NC Interactive, LLC and NCsoft Europe Limited in providing various ArenaNet services to you** > > > > Opening paragraph mate > > That paragraph supports his position, not yours. No it literally says in game whereas he said not in game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > Address the real issue. > Sure thing. > > The ESRB is full of themselves and think they are doing an good job when they are stuck in the 90's using the old TV ratings board method of regulation. > Additionally, the ESRB is a suggestion not law. > > So stores are able to sell to whomever they want. > That doesn't make Anet liable, infact they're terms indemnify them of Legal actions from illegal usage. > > But you don't really care about the real issue as you've got easily the biggest tinfoil hat i've seen worn in a long time. > > Whats the first thing you see in that video? I rest my case. https://www.gamestop.com/stores/playground/parents.aspx https://news.walmart.com/news-archive/2008/04/29/mature-merchandise-music-video-games-movies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"mrstealth.6701" said: > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > Let me be clear. I do not want cheaters in any game nor do I support cheaters. > > > > > > > > > > What I support more is everyone's right to privacy and their personal property. There are many ways to enforce anti cheating w/out doing what they did. The problem is they very publicly state they are in contact and share your info with online companies who do advertising/research/etc. > > > > > > > > > > Look at the whole picture. > > > > > > > > I'm fairly certain the whole "sharing with advertisers/analytics" part of the privacy policy only applies to the website and other non-game services. So any data Anet may collect from it's anti-cheat tool doesn't leave the company. > > > > > > **Your privacy is important to ArenaNet. Maintaining the trust of our users is key to the success of our business, and this Privacy Policy is intended to inform you of our information collection and use while visiting our website and playing ArenaNet games. For your information and for the purposes of this Privacy Policy, ArenaNet, LLC is the data controller and your Personal Information (as defined below) may be handled and otherwise processed by NC Interactive, LLC and NCsoft Europe Limited in providing various ArenaNet services to you** > > > > > > Opening paragraph mate > > > > That paragraph supports his position, not yours. > > No it literally says in game whereas he said not in game It says that the information is being restricted to the company. Everything listed there is the company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > Address the real issue. > > Sure thing. > > > > The ESRB is full of themselves and think they are doing an good job when they are stuck in the 90's using the old TV ratings board method of regulation. > > Additionally, the ESRB is a suggestion not law. > > > > So stores are able to sell to whomever they want. > > That doesn't make Anet liable, infact they're terms indemnify them of Legal actions from illegal usage. > > > > But you don't really care about the real issue as you've got easily the biggest tinfoil hat i've seen worn in a long time. > > > > > > > > Whats the first thing you see in that video? > > I rest my case. No one knows what you are talking about ... it's common knowledge GW2 is rated TEEN and doesn't invalidate anything he said ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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