Please Overhaul Raids.

[Miellyn.6847]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> >Because people like you still say that the current raid population will profit from an easy mode too.

>

> And they would. If even a small amount of the players convert from easy to hard, that's still more people being added for that mode. On top of that, having more *total* players playing raids, even *if* it turns out that more of them stick with easy mode, it would justify offering *more* resources to the raid team, allowing them to speed up the development of new raids for both difficulty tiers. Still, even *if* no new benefits are added to normal mode, it would still be better for the game and players *overall.*

>

> >But if noone actually transition from easy to normal mode the only thing the current raiders get are even longer gaps between raids.

>

> There's still no reason to assume a longer gap.

>

Development ressources don't grow on trees. Of course they will get delayed.

> >That's why people who play them now are against it.

>

> Well that's preposterously selfish. "I would prefer you not have the mode at all than that I *might* have to wait *slightly* longer for the 6th wing available to me. . ."

Slightly longer? Raids are the least updated PvE content. YOU are selfish for wanting everything.

> >Do you want LS -> Raid -> LS -> Raid? That's how WoW works and GW2 won't work with that.

>

> There's no reason that the release schedule should slip significantly from what we already have for either raids or LS. It's a moot point.

 

No it's not because open world -> Raid -> open world -> Raid is the reason why LFR exists in other games. It is not there for carity. The main story progresses through raids and there are content patches that have nothing else.

In GW2 ALL content patches include LS so casuals get something every time while between Wing 4 and 5 where _10 months_. We are already 5 months into WIng 5 and there won't be another raid before the next LS episode so atleast 7 months between the raids.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> Development ressources don't grow on trees. Of course they will get delayed.

 

Again, no reason to assume that. There is no reason to assume that the resources needed would be significant enough to cause a delay in the first place, nor that even if they *were,* that these resources would have to come from an existing raid or LS team.

 

>Slightly longer? Raids are the least updated PvE content. YOU are selfish for wanting everything.

 

SAB wants to share whatever it is you're on.

 

>In GW2 ALL content patches include LS so casuals get something every time while between Wing 4 and 5 where 10 months. We are already 5 months into WIng 5 and there won't be another raid before the next LS episode so atleast 7 months between the raids.

 

It's not a staggered cadence, there are different people working on each. Raids release when raids are finished. Easy mode raids would release a few months after that when they get around to it. Again, there's no reason to assume the cadence would be slowed significantly.

[sigur.9453]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> > Development ressources don't grow on trees. Of course they will get delayed.

>

> Again, no reason to assume that. There is no reason to assume that the resources needed would be significant enough to cause a delay in the first place, nor that even if they *were,* that these resources would have to come from an existing raid or LS team.

>

> >Slightly longer? Raids are the least updated PvE content. YOU are selfish for wanting everything.

>

> SAB wants to share whatever it is you're on.

>

> >In GW2 ALL content patches include LS so casuals get something every time while between Wing 4 and 5 where 10 months. We are already 5 months into WIng 5 and there won't be another raid before the next LS episode so atleast 7 months between the raids.

>

> It's not a staggered cadence, there are different people working on each. Raids release when raids are finished. Easy mode raids would release a few months after that when they get around to it. Again, there's no reason to assume the cadence would be slowed significantly.

 

Common Sense? Of course new wing would be delayed. Think!

Really? You are comparing a once a year event with raids?

 

[Tyson.5160]

> @"sigur.9453" said:

> > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > > @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> > > Development ressources don't grow on trees. Of course they will get delayed.

> >

> > Again, no reason to assume that. There is no reason to assume that the resources needed would be significant enough to cause a delay in the first place, nor that even if they *were,* that these resources would have to come from an existing raid or LS team.

> >

> > >Slightly longer? Raids are the least updated PvE content. YOU are selfish for wanting everything.

> >

> > SAB wants to share whatever it is you're on.

> >

> > >In GW2 ALL content patches include LS so casuals get something every time while between Wing 4 and 5 where 10 months. We are already 5 months into WIng 5 and there won't be another raid before the next LS episode so atleast 7 months between the raids.

> >

> > It's not a staggered cadence, there are different people working on each. Raids release when raids are finished. Easy mode raids would release a few months after that when they get around to it. Again, there's no reason to assume the cadence would be slowed significantly.

>

> Common Sense? Of course new wing would be delayed. Think!

> Really? You are comparing a once a year event with raids?

> I can see why you are having problems socializing with other people in this game. But hey, clearly Anets fault.

 

What I personally enjoy are the rude comments, attacks and antagonistic attitude.

[Miellyn.6847]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> > Development ressources don't grow on trees. Of course they will get delayed.

>

> Again, no reason to assume that. There is no reason to assume that the resources needed would be significant enough to cause a delay in the first place, nor that even if they *were,* that these resources would have to come from an existing raid or LS team.

>

You got it the wrong way. There is no reason why it should not take a significant amount of ressources. Raids aren't designed to support multiple difficulties in the first place. They have to redesign the entire system.

> >Slightly longer? Raids are the least updated PvE content. YOU are selfish for wanting everything.

>

> SAB wants to share whatever it is you're on.

SAB is a festival, not regular PvE content and they said it is highly unlikely we will see ever see world 3 or 4 years ago already.

> >In GW2 ALL content patches include LS so casuals get something every time while between Wing 4 and 5 where 10 months. We are already 5 months into WIng 5 and there won't be another raid before the next LS episode so atleast 7 months between the raids.

>

> It's not a staggered cadence, there are different people working on each. Raids release when raids are finished. Easy mode raids would release a few months after that when they get around to it. Again, there's no reason to assume the cadence would be slowed significantly.

 

Yeah if raids get not slowed down something else will. Like LS or the next expansion.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> You got it the wrong way. There is no reason why it should not take a significant amount of ressources. Raids aren't designed to support multiple difficulties in the first place. They have to redesign the entire system.

 

Not really, and if they did, the team that would have to work on that would not be the raid team, since that's an entirely separate discipline.

 

>SAB is a festival, not regular PvE content and they said it is highly unlikely we will see ever see world 3 or 4 years ago already.

 

"Raids are the least updated PvE content."

 

>Yeah if raids get not slowed down something else will. Like LS or the next expansion.

 

Again, not necessarily.

 

What If I could absolutely *promise* you that easy mode raids could be added without impacting the pace of raid OR LS development by even a single patch, in that hypothetical you'd be fine with them being added?

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> > Development ressources don't grow on trees. Of course they will get delayed.

>

> Again, no reason to assume that. There is no reason to assume that the resources needed would be significant enough to cause a delay in the first place, nor that even if they *were,* that these resources would have to come from an existing raid or LS team.

 

On the contrary, there is every reason to assume that. It's work that needs to be done, it *will* take time and effort. You keep downplaying it, but that's nothing more than wishful thinking.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > > @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> > > Development ressources don't grow on trees. Of course they will get delayed.

> >

> > Again, no reason to assume that. There is no reason to assume that the resources needed would be significant enough to cause a delay in the first place, nor that even if they *were,* that these resources would have to come from an existing raid or LS team.

>

> On the contrary, there is every reason to assume that. It's work that needs to be done, it *will* take time and effort. You keep downplaying it, but that's nothing more than wishful thinking.

 

But again, a relatively *small* amount of work, relative to the things they already do. I just believe that the "it would take too much work" excuse is used too often when what is really meant is "I don't want this to happen at any cost." Everything in the game takes work, that's no excuse to do nothing.

[Turin.6921]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> What If I could absolutely *promise* you that easy mode raids could be added without impacting the pace of raid OR LS development by even a single patch, in that hypothetical you'd be fine with them being added?

 

The dev team literally said they do not plan varied difficulty on raids or focus on the problem of accessibility (which is unfortunate) cause they want to focus on delivering new ones. There are no assumptions here. Unless you think that even the devs are wrong and you are right.

 

I think this thread should be locked with the OP's permission. The discussion has devolved on the typical "we want easy mode" discussion (a thread for which already exists). Any comment on actual suggestions to make raids more accessible or actual new players accounts are being ignored and none left really seems to want to make a constructive discussion. Everyone here is just trying to prove they are right to the point of complete nonsense.

[Miellyn.6847]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> > You got it the wrong way. There is no reason why it should not take a significant amount of ressources. Raids aren't designed to support multiple difficulties in the first place. They have to redesign the entire system.

>

> Not really, and if they did, the team that would have to work on that would not be the raid team, since that's an entirely separate discipline.

>

So ArenaNet has a spare team that does nothing usually and just jumps in and do work nobody has time for? They SAID that raids are not build to support multiple difficulties right now.

> >SAB is a festival, not regular PvE content and they said it is highly unlikely we will see ever see world 3 or 4 years ago already.

>

> "Raids are the least updated PvE content."

>

Festivals are once a year, so they can only be updated once a year. Also we know since years SAB is not actively developed. Maybe bring an example that actually has a team working on it.

> >Yeah if raids get not slowed down something else will. Like LS or the next expansion.

>

> Again, not necessarily.

>

> What If I could absolutely *promise* you that easy mode raids could be added without impacting the pace of raid OR LS development by even a single patch, in that hypothetical you'd be fine with them being added?

 

That would be fine. But since there are no free ressources it won't happen.

 

Once again. We are not discussion hypothetical mind games but the reality.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"Turin.6921" said:

>The dev team literally said they do not plan varied difficulty on raids or focus on the problem of accessibility (which is unfortunate) cause they want to focus on delivering new ones. There are no assumptions here. Unless you think that even the devs are wrong and you are right.

 

That doesn't answer the question posed.

 

 

> @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> Festivals are once a year, so they can only be updated once a year. Also we know since years SAB is not actively developed. Maybe bring an example that actually has a team working on it.

 

We don't know what their internal teams are working on. It's a question neither of which is equipped to answer.

 

>That would be fine. But since there are no free ressources it won't happen.

 

Ok, so we've got at least *one* soft "yes," now how about you Turin?

[Turin.6921]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > @"Turin.6921" said:

> >The dev team literally said they do not plan varied difficulty on raids or focus on the problem of accessibility (which is unfortunate) cause they want to focus on delivering new ones. There are no assumptions here. Unless you think that even the devs are wrong and you are right.

>

> That doesn't answer the question posed.

 

LoL. It does answer your false assumption that making a easy mode would not distract from development. The devs said it would. what more do you need?

 

> > @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> > Festivals are once a year, so they can only be updated once a year. Also we know since years SAB is not actively developed. Maybe bring an example that actually has a team working on it.

>

> We don't know what their internal teams are working on. It's a question neither of which is equipped to answer.

 

Actually we do. the wiki has a huge amount of info on the matter you constantly ignore. Anet made a video and the festivals are updated by a jack-of-all-trades team that also handles legendary delivery and current events etc.

 

> >That would be fine. But since there are no free ressources it won't happen.

>

> Ok, so we've got at least *one* soft "yes," now how about you Turin?

 

You are not as witty as you think you are Mr magnanimous. I am done trying to prove i am not an elephant to satisfy your ego.

[Miellyn.6847]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> >That would be fine. But since there are no free ressources it won't happen.

>

> Ok, so we've got at least *one* soft "yes," now how about you Turin?

 

I was never completely against an easy mode. I'm against your idea of an easy mode that consists of facerolling through sandsacks with fancy effects for raid rewards.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> > > > Development ressources don't grow on trees. Of course they will get delayed.

> > >

> > > Again, no reason to assume that. There is no reason to assume that the resources needed would be significant enough to cause a delay in the first place, nor that even if they *were,* that these resources would have to come from an existing raid or LS team.

> >

> > On the contrary, there is every reason to assume that. It's work that needs to be done, it *will* take time and effort. You keep downplaying it, but that's nothing more than wishful thinking.

>

> But again, a relatively *small* amount of work, relative to the things they already do. I just believe that the "it would take too much work" excuse is used too often when what is really meant is "I don't want this to happen at any cost." Everything in the game takes work, that's no excuse to do nothing.

 

But again, that's wishful thinking. You have no idea how big or small the amount of work is. You have no idea of how the encounters are structured on the development side. You're just guessing it won't take a lot of work because that's what you *like* to think, ignoring each and every argument you *don't like*. Sorry, I will not accept that as valid reasoning.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"Turin.6921" said:

>LoL. It does answer your false assumption that making a easy mode would not distract from development. The devs said it would. what more do you need?

 

Still doesn't answer the question. Miellyn answered, what are you afraid of?

 

>You are not as witty as you think you are Mr magnanimous. I am done trying to prove i am not an elephant to satisfy your ego.

 

Ok.

 

[Turin.6921]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > @"Turin.6921" said:

> >LoL. It does answer your false assumption that making a easy mode would not distract from development. The devs said it would. what more do you need?

>

> Still doesn't answer the question. Miellyn answered, what are you afraid of?

 

You are embarrassing yourself. My opinion was crystal clear throughout this thread.

 

Make raids more easily accessible not the content easier. I made very specific suggestions on how they could do that. You are just too stuck on your own opinion to see beyond your nose. Plus you are derailing thread because of that.

 

 

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> > If you take away our raid specific rewards then its fair if we get more gold per hour from raids then mindless farms.

> >

> > Lets say we need 10 minutes for a boss, thats 6 bosses in an hour. Silverwaste farm is 30g/h ?

> > If so we need 38 gold for 6 bosses (counting food) so 6gold 33 silvers per boss fight instead of 2 gold)

> >

> > And i hope noone here want to argue with me that i should be paid more if i actualy use brain.

>

> You have to count in raiders can only do bosses once each week so 35g each boss should be about right.

 

35 looks like too much but it 20 is ok since you get the reward only once a week.

 

Once this change is in game i will enjoy the outrage.

In the economy there are 2 sources of income: flat and tpdependant.

If prices go down flat becomes better and tp worse and other way around.

But if we give new flat income players that play raids would be able to purchase everything and prices would go up. It would stabilize in time on higher prices but remember that if you have huge number of gold you can wait before purchasing but player that sells on tp need to sell or he loses bank slots.

 

If we want to talk about easier raids tgen they shouldnt be easy but easier. I would cut every damage and boss hp to 50% (not too hard ti implement i imagine).

I would also cut all the rewards to minimum (only 30-50 silvers for a boss)

 

That way you can experiance what is it like, you can clear with everything, learn encounters (mechanics are the same) but if you want rewards you need to go to main tier.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"Turin.6921" said:

> You are embarrassing yourself. My opinion was crystal clear throughout this thread.

 

>Make raids more easily accessible not the content easier. I made very specific suggestions on how they could do that. You are just too stuck on your own opinion to see beyond your nose. Plus you are derailing thread because of that.

 

Sooooo. . . . is that a "no?" Even if easy mode raids could be implemented without an opportunity cost, you still would not want them to happen?

 

> @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> That way you can experiance what is it like, you can clear with everything, learn encounters (mechanics are the same) but if you want rewards you need to go to main tier.

 

Who benefits from that though? Lets say that there are players who NEVER want to "go to the main tier." Aside from maybe doing them once, what would be the change to their lives in the addition of this feature? Do you recognizer that it is *not* in every player's best interests to "go to the main tier?"

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > @"Turin.6921" said:

> > You are embarrassing yourself. My opinion was crystal clear throughout this thread.

>

> >Make raids more easily accessible not the content easier. I made very specific suggestions on how they could do that. You are just too stuck on your own opinion to see beyond your nose. Plus you are derailing thread because of that.

>

> Sooooo. . . . is that a "no?" Even if easy mode raids could be implemented without an opportunity cost, you still would not want them to happen?

>

> > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> > That way you can experiance what is it like, you can clear with everything, learn encounters (mechanics are the same) but if you want rewards you need to go to main tier.

>

> Who benefits from that though? Lets say that there are players who NEVER want to "go to the main tier." Aside from maybe doing them once, what would be the change to their lives in the addition of this feature? Do you recognizer that it is *not* in every player's best interests to "go to the main tier?"

 

If they never want to go to main tier and dont want to play the content for a story they just want easy rewards. I am against that so no from me

[Raizel.8175]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> Ivw never played a game that has had training raids before other then gw2, I joined one a long time ago and it was insufferable and patronizing. They kept repeating over voice com like a mantra that they weren't trying to get a kill. It's really bizarre, especially for someone like me who was in top raiding guilds in wow during burning crusade and wrath of the lich king. I can't even wrap my head around raiding in that time period if they had that attitude or training raids for that matter, because we never would of accomplished anything. Our groups were always trying for a kill, it's silly and demoralizing and I don't know where this concept has emerged from.

>

> What I've seen from this thread is that the people who understand what I'm saying actually are veteran raiders, and others who are new to raiding in general, (as in gw2 is one of the first games they've raided in) don't seem to understand at all.

>

> Also my idea of a training raid I'd watching 5 min of the fight on YouTube, and yes for me as a skilled raider, that is more then enough training for me to get a kill on the first try, believe it or not.

 

> @"Martimus.6027" said:

> I'll give my two cents as a returning player:

>

> GW2 is really not very 'new user' friendly. It isn't very 'returning player' friendly, either. I beta tested UO, Beta tested EQ and EQ2, raided in both for many years. I was in Friends and Family Alpha for WoW vanilla and every expansion pack, and raided competitively in every one of them, raided casually in FFXIV as well, and I have to say, even getting to the point to raid in GW2 is rather alien to me. I'm not sure what I would even have to do. I would like to, but there isn't really a good place to go to read up on the steps necessary to make it happen. I know I need Berserker's gear for my Ele Power Staff Weaver, and I have the best I can find thusfar without crafting difficult ones: is that enough? Are there 'item level' requirements as it were? I also see people complaining that unless you are a Druid or certain other classes, you just don't get to raid.

>

> I agree that raids should be more easily _accessed_, though not in any way less difficult.

 

Basically this. The problem is that the accessibility-problem will probably never solved due to a lot of questionable if not downright awful game-design choices. This actually reminds me of a post of mine I contributed to another raid-thread (quite a WoT, so spoiler):

 

>! > @"Raizel.8175" said:

>! > Accessibility isn't about gear-requirements, it's about a welcoming community. The raid-community is far from welcoming due to various design-choices.

>! >

>! > 1. **Lack of natural difficulty-progression.** First, let us actually take your gear-treadmill-example to elaborate: Like you already stated, in traditional MMORPGs, you have a gear-treadmill that usually serves as the main character-progression-system. Those treadmills are usually bound to instanced PvE-content in a way that the harder the content gets, the better gear you receive. Such game-design leads to a natural difficulty-progression-system where people have to learn to carry their own weight and other people don't have to worry all that much about the skill of a person. In GW2 though, you basically have no difficulty-progression as the Story- and OW-content as GW2s main-content is - in its entirety - far too easy and won't teach you to carry your own weight. The auto-attack-mentality is not the only problem though; there's also the gameplay-shift from self-sufficient to trinity-based combat. This already leads to a certain two-class-society where some raiding players think they're some sort of better person and that non-raiding people are trash at least gameplay-wise; where people vastly overglorify raid-content ("the hardest content of the game", "only for the best", bla bla bla...), even though it indeed is just another form of instanced PvE-content and certainly not as hard as people feign it to be. (On a sidenote: This also leads to many people being meta-slaves.)

>! >

>! > 2. **Lack of natural party-building.** Secondly, this game suffers from being rather un-sociable. Where in more traditional MMORPGs, you're often forced to team up with other people to clear content and have downtimes to regenerate HP/MP (and which you can use to chat with people), GW2 actively suppresses people to team up. There's absolutely no incentive to team up with other people (and thus favor socializing). You get boons from other people without even being in a party/squad. It doesn't matter participation-wise if you're in a party/squad or not. There are no party/squad-boons. This is actually made worse by the too easy Story- and OW-content, where people don't really have to cooperate with each other (and when they have to, they may even cry about it (Hello Serpent's Ire!)), by the lack of a world-chat and also because of the megaserver-architecture GW2 uses (meaning no server-identity, no limited pool of players). GW2 is actually designed in a way in which it enforces the fragmentation of the community into certain bubbles rather than having a homogenous community. Further indulging into skill-splits for WvW/PvP even seems that ANet is admitting that they're unable to do so (at least gameplay-wise).

>! >

>! > 3. **Lack of publicity.** While there are some training-guilds, they don't really matter since the game suffers from the lack of publicity. We don't have a world-chat where these guilds can promote themselves. The LFG is rather clunky and very rudimentary. We don't have a decent guild-browser, which the game is in dire need of, especially considering the upcoming WvW-restructuring. That's also considering that the forum and especially reddit aren't helpful. Only a minority of people are even using these sources (if you are a bit more sophisticated, you'll probably know of the 80/15/5 / 80/20/5 rule). Training-, raid-guilds and statics need an ingame-platform that enables them to promote themselves and be visible to the general playerbase.

>! >

>! > 4. **The ease of excluding people.** This game makes it too easy to exclude people from content. Sure, gear-requirements like in 1. can also exclude people but rather in a soft way because you are actually able to work towards the gear you need. In GW2 though, we have the ability to post LI and KP. That ability hard-locks people out of content and is even supplemented by the API. It's not just hard-locking people out of content (which is already rather bad game design), it also leads to being unable to get into content via skill since skill is bound to strongly to (buyable!) titles, LI and KP. In other games, it's fairly easy possible to get into content by simply lying and - then - by convincing through skill. It's not like raid-content is that hard. We already have dozens of guides. For people who want to get into raid-content, two or three times doing a certain encounter alongside reading guides should be sufficient to internalize mechanics. You shouldn't already need a job to get a job. That's one of the main-problems to get into raiding. Raid-content in GW2 is far too overglorified.

>! >

>! > 5. **Class-inbalance/the lack of true cooperation.** Since the community at large is very susceptible to the META, we also have the problem of class-inbalance, namely the atrocious game-design around Chrono and Druid which mostly (beside some odd jobs at certain encounters) deal with every mechanic because they're over-utilized (besides also being the main-tank and -heal and also the most atrocious boon-bots of the game). This leads to a lack of true cooperation and makes both Chrono and Druid mandatory in 3 or 4 slots out of 10. 11% of the specialization-pool (even ignoring core-specs that way) occupying up to 40% of the slots of a raid-squad will ultimately lock people playing other classes out since the aforementioned ratio is far from being healthy. Also: If people were forced to cooperate on a deeper level, they may be forced to use TS or Discord. Excluding a person you're talking with generally is somewhat harder than kicking a person that's just in your typical LFG-squad without TS/Discord.

>! >

>! > 6. **Lack of replayability through reward-structures**. The raid-reward-structures are garbage. While I get why there's an account-wide weekly cap (it's too easy to get geared in GW2 thus there's literally no sense of class-identity in this game), it ultimately hurts squad-building. It doesn't matter at all if I have friends I could raid with. If they already have a static, they probably won't raid with me since they already got their rewards and thus get nothing out would they also raid with me. ...and yes, I know that changing reward-structures could also further incentivize raid-sellers. Game-developers are also payed for solving problems in a creative way though.

>! >

>! > 7. **The initial stance of ANet.** Whoever at ANet thought it was wise to promote raids with the stance that "they aren't for everyone" really wasn't a wise person. Many people think they meant that in a way that raids are only for the best players out there thus enforcing some stupid pseudo-elitism. Raids indeed should be the weekly main-event considering instanced PvE-content, especially since they hold one of the main-rewards of the game. It's not like they couldn't be. Legendary armor isn't even bound to CMs, you just have to do the normal mode which arguably is content designed for the masses.

>! >

>! > The combination of all these points leads - in my opinion - to raids being widely inaccessible. YMMV of course.

 

Having played several other MMORPGs before, it's actually quite fascinating how "special" GW2 is when it comes to endgame-pve-content. In other games, people would probably laugh about the idea of "training-raids" since that's plain bull**it anyway. It also speaks a lot of the community in general. It seems like a lot of people who think that that kinda stuff is "normal" (it isn't) either have a very clear lack of self-confidence (you really don't need "training" to kill stuff in pve-content) or have a disturbing darwinistic mindset.

 

Sadly though, ANet made a rather bad job turning their game into an actual MMORPG. Don't misunderstand me, GW2 is a good game, but probably one of the worst MMORPGs I've played thus far due to a lot of contradicting game-design choices and the lack of both coherence and consistency. Stuff like - I even have to use the term - "training"-raids and ridiculous LI/KP-requirements are probably necessary due to the p*sseasy ow- and story-content, since people simply don't learn to carry their own weight that way. While the stuff with KPs (in every single sense) is plain bull**it, I do think the LI-idea isn't necessarily that bad considering you need some proof that people aren't a catastrophe. Even then, part of the raid-community is certainly mentally deranged. There are a lot of bosses/encounters that are quite easy. I don't see the point of demanding a single LI for stuff like Escort. Bosses like Gorseval, Trio and also almost the whole wing 4 really aren't as difficult to demand several hundred LI.

 

In one of the previous games I've played, we had a PvE-ranks-website where you could upload your dps-logs. The website would parse the data and show stuff like your dps, the percentage of each skill to the total damage, the rotation people used, certain buffs. There were also rankings of every dungeon and everything was public, meaning you could browse through each file and see how people play. This probably sounds toxic to a lot of people here, but it actually reduced toxicity because it enabled people to improve and to make a name for themselves. That could be a good idea for GW2 too. Making files on raidar public so people can see if a player is good or not and people don't have to judge via stupid indicators like LI/KP. There is probably a risk though: Some people - especially pseudo-elitists - will always be unable to read such logs like: That person there had a low dps at VG, he must be trash! Is he though? Maybe he had to do greens and had no decent ranged option. I still think that this would be a better system for confirming a players skill than the LI/KP-system which hard-locks people out.

 

Another thing that ANet should finally do is the implementation of a decent guild-browser which also allows statics to recruid people. That wouldn't only be good for training- or raid-guilds to advertise themselves, it would also be useful in other game-modes like WvW where WvW-guilds could search for additional members. It's quite fascinating that there already isn't such a thing in GW2 considering it's the least sociable MMORPG I've ever played, simply because of its game-design.

 

What I also would like to see is a rework of both Chrono and Druid since these two specializations are the biggest offender to class-balance. These classes mostly carry all the weight/mechanics of every encounter. I do think it would be more healthy if that weight would be evenly distributed, because - let's be honest - dps-specs actually have it rather easy since they often only have to deal damage.

 

They should also definitely rework the reward-structures of raids since they aren't very helpful either.

 

The current situation is actually quite sad. The game has a lot of potential, it's wasting that potential though since a lot of fun content like raids is rather inaccessible and needs you to have done it already if you want to get into it. Just doing OW-content and maybe t4-fractals all the day actually feels rather bland.

 

EDIT: Just to be sure. I think that raids are "easy enough". They just have a huge accessibility-problem that definitely needs to be fixed. They shouldn't be eligible to be some sort of niche-content (they really aren't difficulty-wise), even though that was ANets initial stance on them.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

> @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > > @"Turin.6921" said:

> > > You are embarrassing yourself. My opinion was crystal clear throughout this thread.

> >

> > >Make raids more easily accessible not the content easier. I made very specific suggestions on how they could do that. You are just too stuck on your own opinion to see beyond your nose. Plus you are derailing thread because of that.

> >

> > Sooooo. . . . is that a "no?" Even if easy mode raids could be implemented without an opportunity cost, you still would not want them to happen?

> >

> > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> > > That way you can experiance what is it like, you can clear with everything, learn encounters (mechanics are the same) but if you want rewards you need to go to main tier.

> >

> > Who benefits from that though? Lets say that there are players who NEVER want to "go to the main tier." Aside from maybe doing them once, what would be the change to their lives in the addition of this feature? Do you recognizer that it is *not* in every player's best interests to "go to the main tier?"

>

> If they never want to go to main tier and dont want to play the content for a story they just want easy rewards. I am against that so no from me

 

What's wrong with easy rewards lol why do you care?

[zealex.9410]

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > @"alaskasnowgirl.6047" said:

> > What I would like to see is more puggable raids that don't require much coordination between players, just good dps and evading obvious things, which would allow for easier silent raids. When I run discord with GW2, my computer stops performing as well and my fps goes to kitten, which prevents me from raiding anymore. Last time I tried Sabetha on discord I hit 2 fps and ran off platform because I couldn't see where I was going. I normally play at 20-30 fps when not running discord.

>

> Most raids don't require that much coordination (seriously).

>

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> > > Its kinda funny how casual most everyone playing GW2 is.

> > It _was_ a game aimed mostly at casuals. It's no surprise then that this group makes up a huge majority of all players. It's the exact opposite (how _hardcore_ some people can get in gw2) that constantly surprises me.

>

> In relation to other MMORPGs, raids in GW2 are already fairly easy - at least their normal mode is. The problem with GW2s game-design is actually that ANet misunderstood easy for casual. Easy ≠ Casual. Most people don't seem to get that. What's hardcore about raids is the pseudo-elitism, the toxicity and the stupid entry-requirements, not the content itself.

>

That axtually the self proclaimed casuals who think casual means easy. You dont need to spend 5 or 6 hours per week to clear the raid or 3 hours every day to do a boss raids are actually as you said really easy.

 

Whats hardcore about them is the stepup in dificulty from the ow content and t2 fractals most ppl do.

 

Toxicity and stupid entry requirements exist in every mmo and gw2 is nit an exception, why should someone be entitled to join all the flg groups? Some clearly look for ppl that isnt them.

 

I agree a guild browser is what the game needs, nothing else. Deal with the pug life or join a guild, its always been like that.

 

> > @"HardRider.2980" said:

> > Easier version of Raids is Fractals imho.

>

> That's not true. Fractals don't require the trinity-based gameplay raids do (well, at least not if people put in some effort).

>

>

Some boses require a tank and no raid requires a healer so even in the worst situation where a tank is needed we still dont have trinity.

 

[zealex.9410]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> > > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > > > @"Turin.6921" said:

> > > > You are embarrassing yourself. My opinion was crystal clear throughout this thread.

> > >

> > > >Make raids more easily accessible not the content easier. I made very specific suggestions on how they could do that. You are just too stuck on your own opinion to see beyond your nose. Plus you are derailing thread because of that.

> > >

> > > Sooooo. . . . is that a "no?" Even if easy mode raids could be implemented without an opportunity cost, you still would not want them to happen?

> > >

> > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> > > > That way you can experiance what is it like, you can clear with everything, learn encounters (mechanics are the same) but if you want rewards you need to go to main tier.

> > >

> > > Who benefits from that though? Lets say that there are players who NEVER want to "go to the main tier." Aside from maybe doing them once, what would be the change to their lives in the addition of this feature? Do you recognizer that it is *not* in every player's best interests to "go to the main tier?"

> >

> > If they never want to go to main tier and dont want to play the content for a story they just want easy rewards. I am against that so no from me

>

> What's wrong with easy rewards lol why do you care?

 

Coz it devalues hard rewards. Its always been like this wether its a game or rl. U choose what you value more, not bothering with something or the reward that something gives you?

[Miellyn.6847]

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

>....

 

2. From all of the current sucessful MMORPGs exactly zero have this 'natural party building'. Seems to work.

4. WoW, the holy grail for many people when it comes to raid design, has actually the exact same problem, only with achievements not items. It also doesn't 'hard lock' you from accessing the content if you really want to play it otherwise noone would play it. WoW on the other hand locks you from accessing the raids until you reached a certain equipment lvl. You can also create fake chatcodes if you want to go the lying route. But people can tell pretty fast if you don't have experience. Same as in other games.

5. People go for the easiest way. There are compositions that replace Chronomancers but it takes more effort so PUGs don't do it. DPS is pretty balanced except for Weaver on big hitboxes.

6. That's the people not the raids. I have LI for 2 more sets of armor and still raid.

7. Raids _are_ not for everybody. No game has 100% raid participation even with WoWs braindead LFR. Focusing on one demographic if you don't have ressources to cater to multiple is the right choice.

 

There is a site for raid logs, gw2raidar. WoW is at a point where your external score is relevant for ingame groups. Yes GW2 is pretty tame compared to other games.

Low DPS at VG for doing greens? Yes he is bad. All decent groups don't do greens anymore. LI/KP don't hard lock you. Just from most better groups. If you think you can play there create fake chatcodes.

 

Chrono carry potential got drastically reduced in PUGs with the distortion change. Druid doesn't carry more than any other healing profession. Do you wan't to remove all external healing?

 

GW2 is special as you can't faceroll raids with way higher equipment. That's the reason training raids exist. Try to get into heroic raids in WoW at the end of the first week without the achievement and a medicore PvE score from an external website. Good luck.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

> @"Miellyn.6847" said:

> > @"Turin.6921" said:

> > I do not understand why you cannot have different game modes catering to different people and why the fact that you cannot play a mode makes you envious and entitled to play it.

>

> Because there are rewards he wants and can't get.

> But if those rewards are so important and joy killing, why is he still playing the game and arguing for another path to those rewards?

 

You really believe that this is about wanting rewards you can't get? Anyone can get these rewards and clear the content, you can even pay groups to carry you through every week. In addition the raids are pretty easy, what's not easy however is how the difficulty impacts players ability to group and the subsequent human interaction which ensues, which is always scrutinizing and usually negative. You would think people would want to make that aspect easier if anything, including making an easier version of raids if need be.