Ohoni.6057 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > 15 minutes ago i knew i had like 20 minutes before lunch so i started GW2, went to lfg, look through raids section and saw that one party at VG needs a chrono, jumped in killed the boss and went out. 10 minutes is very long time to play without break. Nice, but an irrelevant anecdote. Most player experiences are not like that. >I pity you Ohoni. Looks like you had to be very sad in your life because you dont apritiate what you have. I am sorry but it looks that way. I made peace with the fact that i will not get core legendary and my life went on. Looks like you cannot do that. And I you, for similar reasons. >Raid selling is the same as buying something from a TP in this case. There are some rather significant differences, but I doubt I'd be capable of explaining them to you in a way that you would be willing to accept. >I dont know if you enjoyed school all the time but you still went there. You were rewarded. If you want to be working as a dentist you have to study for it. Noone will hire you if you just finished kindergarden. And thats what you are asking for No, I'm saying I don't want to be a dentist. I want to do a job that requires less complex schooling requirements, and then to do that job, maybe for longer than a dentist would have to, but eventually end up with enough money to buy the same kind of car that the dentist did. *That's* what I'm asking for. Seriously, this whole conversation's like pulling teeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButcherofMalakir.4067 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > 15 minutes ago i knew i had like 20 minutes before lunch so i started GW2, went to lfg, look through raids section and saw that one party at VG needs a chrono, jumped in killed the boss and went out. 10 minutes is very long time to play without break. > > Nice, but an irrelevant anecdote. Most player experiences are not like that. > > >I pity you Ohoni. Looks like you had to be very sad in your life because you dont apritiate what you have. I am sorry but it looks that way. I made peace with the fact that i will not get core legendary and my life went on. Looks like you cannot do that. > > And I you, for similar reasons. > > >Raid selling is the same as buying something from a TP in this case. > > There are some rather significant differences, but I doubt I'd be capable of explaining them to you in a way that you would be willing to accept. > > >I dont know if you enjoyed school all the time but you still went there. You were rewarded. If you want to be working as a dentist you have to study for it. Noone will hire you if you just finished kindergarden. And thats what you are asking for > > No, I'm saying I don't want to be a dentist. I want to do a job that requires less complex schooling requirements, and then to do that job, maybe for longer than a dentist would have to, but eventually end up with enough money to buy the same kind of car that the dentist did. *That's* what I'm asking for. > > Seriously, this whole conversation's like pulling teeth. Nice one :-) Also you know that easier raids are the raids we play now? Hard raids are already in game but noone plays them because thay are not rewarded. Anet said they dont want multiple tiers of dificulty and thats why CMs are not rewarded. Same reason for yoir lower raids are to boost CMs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > 15 minutes ago i knew i had like 20 minutes before lunch so i started GW2, went to lfg, look through raids section and saw that one party at VG needs a chrono, jumped in killed the boss and went out. 10 minutes is very long time to play without break. > > > > Nice, but an irrelevant anecdote. Most player experiences are not like that. > > > > >I pity you Ohoni. Looks like you had to be very sad in your life because you dont apritiate what you have. I am sorry but it looks that way. I made peace with the fact that i will not get core legendary and my life went on. Looks like you cannot do that. > > > > And I you, for similar reasons. > > > > >Raid selling is the same as buying something from a TP in this case. > > > > There are some rather significant differences, but I doubt I'd be capable of explaining them to you in a way that you would be willing to accept. > > > > >I dont know if you enjoyed school all the time but you still went there. You were rewarded. If you want to be working as a dentist you have to study for it. Noone will hire you if you just finished kindergarden. And thats what you are asking for > > > > No, I'm saying I don't want to be a dentist. I want to do a job that requires less complex schooling requirements, and then to do that job, maybe for longer than a dentist would have to, but eventually end up with enough money to buy the same kind of car that the dentist did. *That's* what I'm asking for. > > > > Seriously, this whole conversation's like pulling teeth. > > Nice one :-) > > Also you know that easier raids are the raids we play now? Hard raids are already in game but noone plays them because thay are not rewarded. Anet said they dont want multiple tiers of dificulty and thats why CMs are not rewarded. Same reason for yoir lower raids are to boost CMs it boils down to this: Casual player: I want to play 10 man instances that has less stringent demands on my time, and wont collapse in PUG format. I'm also happy that there is hard level raiding too that others can enjoy. Hard level raider: (some of them) I want my hard mode, and I don't want the majority to get anything else. its our way or tough. Problem isn't hard to see, solution is pretty obvious too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > 15 minutes ago i knew i had like 20 minutes before lunch so i started GW2, went to lfg, look through raids section and saw that one party at VG needs a chrono, jumped in killed the boss and went out. 10 minutes is very long time to play without break. > > > > > > Nice, but an irrelevant anecdote. Most player experiences are not like that. > > > > > > >I pity you Ohoni. Looks like you had to be very sad in your life because you dont apritiate what you have. I am sorry but it looks that way. I made peace with the fact that i will not get core legendary and my life went on. Looks like you cannot do that. > > > > > > And I you, for similar reasons. > > > > > > >Raid selling is the same as buying something from a TP in this case. > > > > > > There are some rather significant differences, but I doubt I'd be capable of explaining them to you in a way that you would be willing to accept. > > > > > > >I dont know if you enjoyed school all the time but you still went there. You were rewarded. If you want to be working as a dentist you have to study for it. Noone will hire you if you just finished kindergarden. And thats what you are asking for > > > > > > No, I'm saying I don't want to be a dentist. I want to do a job that requires less complex schooling requirements, and then to do that job, maybe for longer than a dentist would have to, but eventually end up with enough money to buy the same kind of car that the dentist did. *That's* what I'm asking for. > > > > > > Seriously, this whole conversation's like pulling teeth. > > > > Nice one :-) > > > > Also you know that easier raids are the raids we play now? Hard raids are already in game but noone plays them because thay are not rewarded. Anet said they dont want multiple tiers of dificulty and thats why CMs are not rewarded. Same reason for yoir lower raids are to boost CMs > > it boils down to this: > > Casual player: I want to play 10 man instances that has less stringent demands on my time, and wont collapse in PUG format. I'm also happy that there is hard level raiding too that others can enjoy. > > **Hard level raider: (some of them) I want my hard mode, and I don't want the majority to get anything else. its our way or tough.** > Problem isn't hard to see, solution is pretty obvious too. > If it wouldn't be a bother to you, would you please kindly point out to the majority of the hard core raiders that demand hard mode only. As evidence by [this poll](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/18677/do-raids-need-easy-normal-hard-difficulty-mode-merged/p1 "this poll"), they seem to be a minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButcherofMalakir.4067 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > 15 minutes ago i knew i had like 20 minutes before lunch so i started GW2, went to lfg, look through raids section and saw that one party at VG needs a chrono, jumped in killed the boss and went out. 10 minutes is very long time to play without break. > > > > > > Nice, but an irrelevant anecdote. Most player experiences are not like that. > > > > > > >I pity you Ohoni. Looks like you had to be very sad in your life because you dont apritiate what you have. I am sorry but it looks that way. I made peace with the fact that i will not get core legendary and my life went on. Looks like you cannot do that. > > > > > > And I you, for similar reasons. > > > > > > >Raid selling is the same as buying something from a TP in this case. > > > > > > There are some rather significant differences, but I doubt I'd be capable of explaining them to you in a way that you would be willing to accept. > > > > > > >I dont know if you enjoyed school all the time but you still went there. You were rewarded. If you want to be working as a dentist you have to study for it. Noone will hire you if you just finished kindergarden. And thats what you are asking for > > > > > > No, I'm saying I don't want to be a dentist. I want to do a job that requires less complex schooling requirements, and then to do that job, maybe for longer than a dentist would have to, but eventually end up with enough money to buy the same kind of car that the dentist did. *That's* what I'm asking for. > > > > > > Seriously, this whole conversation's like pulling teeth. > > > > Nice one :-) > > > > Also you know that easier raids are the raids we play now? Hard raids are already in game but noone plays them because thay are not rewarded. Anet said they dont want multiple tiers of dificulty and thats why CMs are not rewarded. Same reason for yoir lower raids are to boost CMs > > it boils down to this: > > Casual player: I want to play 10 man instances that has less stringent demands on my time, and wont collapse in PUG format. I'm also happy that there is hard level raiding too that others can enjoy. > > Hard level raider: (some of them) I want my hard mode, and I don't want the majority to get anything else. its our way or tough. > > Problem isn't hard to see, solution is pretty obvious too. > > > I am FOR easy raids. I am AGAINST unique rewards for players that play only easy raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > > 15 minutes ago i knew i had like 20 minutes before lunch so i started GW2, went to lfg, look through raids section and saw that one party at VG needs a chrono, jumped in killed the boss and went out. 10 minutes is very long time to play without break. > > > > > > > > Nice, but an irrelevant anecdote. Most player experiences are not like that. > > > > > > > > >I pity you Ohoni. Looks like you had to be very sad in your life because you dont apritiate what you have. I am sorry but it looks that way. I made peace with the fact that i will not get core legendary and my life went on. Looks like you cannot do that. > > > > > > > > And I you, for similar reasons. > > > > > > > > >Raid selling is the same as buying something from a TP in this case. > > > > > > > > There are some rather significant differences, but I doubt I'd be capable of explaining them to you in a way that you would be willing to accept. > > > > > > > > >I dont know if you enjoyed school all the time but you still went there. You were rewarded. If you want to be working as a dentist you have to study for it. Noone will hire you if you just finished kindergarden. And thats what you are asking for > > > > > > > > No, I'm saying I don't want to be a dentist. I want to do a job that requires less complex schooling requirements, and then to do that job, maybe for longer than a dentist would have to, but eventually end up with enough money to buy the same kind of car that the dentist did. *That's* what I'm asking for. > > > > > > > > Seriously, this whole conversation's like pulling teeth. > > > > > > Nice one :-) > > > > > > Also you know that easier raids are the raids we play now? Hard raids are already in game but noone plays them because thay are not rewarded. Anet said they dont want multiple tiers of dificulty and thats why CMs are not rewarded. Same reason for yoir lower raids are to boost CMs > > > > it boils down to this: > > > > Casual player: I want to play 10 man instances that has less stringent demands on my time, and wont collapse in PUG format. I'm also happy that there is hard level raiding too that others can enjoy. > > > > **Hard level raider: (some of them) I want my hard mode, and I don't want the majority to get anything else. its our way or tough.** > > Problem isn't hard to see, solution is pretty obvious too. > > > If it wouldn't be a bother to you, would you please kindly point out to the majority of the hard core raiders that demand hard mode only. As evidence by [this poll](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/18677/do-raids-need-easy-normal-hard-difficulty-mode-merged/p1 "this poll"), they seem to be a minority. > > Then whats the debate about, if raiders want easy mode too all is well right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > > 15 minutes ago i knew i had like 20 minutes before lunch so i started GW2, went to lfg, look through raids section and saw that one party at VG needs a chrono, jumped in killed the boss and went out. 10 minutes is very long time to play without break. > > > > > > > > Nice, but an irrelevant anecdote. Most player experiences are not like that. > > > > > > > > >I pity you Ohoni. Looks like you had to be very sad in your life because you dont apritiate what you have. I am sorry but it looks that way. I made peace with the fact that i will not get core legendary and my life went on. Looks like you cannot do that. > > > > > > > > And I you, for similar reasons. > > > > > > > > >Raid selling is the same as buying something from a TP in this case. > > > > > > > > There are some rather significant differences, but I doubt I'd be capable of explaining them to you in a way that you would be willing to accept. > > > > > > > > >I dont know if you enjoyed school all the time but you still went there. You were rewarded. If you want to be working as a dentist you have to study for it. Noone will hire you if you just finished kindergarden. And thats what you are asking for > > > > > > > > No, I'm saying I don't want to be a dentist. I want to do a job that requires less complex schooling requirements, and then to do that job, maybe for longer than a dentist would have to, but eventually end up with enough money to buy the same kind of car that the dentist did. *That's* what I'm asking for. > > > > > > > > Seriously, this whole conversation's like pulling teeth. > > > > > > Nice one :-) > > > > > > Also you know that easier raids are the raids we play now? Hard raids are already in game but noone plays them because thay are not rewarded. Anet said they dont want multiple tiers of dificulty and thats why CMs are not rewarded. Same reason for yoir lower raids are to boost CMs > > > > it boils down to this: > > > > Casual player: I want to play 10 man instances that has less stringent demands on my time, and wont collapse in PUG format. I'm also happy that there is hard level raiding too that others can enjoy. > > > > Hard level raider: (some of them) I want my hard mode, and I don't want the majority to get anything else. its our way or tough. > > > > Problem isn't hard to see, solution is pretty obvious too. > > > > > > > > I am FOR easy raids. I am AGAINST unique rewards for players that play only easy raids. ? all content should have unique rewards, why would you ever want otherwise. Hard mode raids should have unique legendary armor, and easy mode would have access to different legendary mode armor that takes much much much longer - just like pvp and wv and open world gathering for weapons its no different - long term goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > > > 15 minutes ago i knew i had like 20 minutes before lunch so i started GW2, went to lfg, look through raids section and saw that one party at VG needs a chrono, jumped in killed the boss and went out. 10 minutes is very long time to play without break. > > > > > > > > > > Nice, but an irrelevant anecdote. Most player experiences are not like that. > > > > > > > > > > >I pity you Ohoni. Looks like you had to be very sad in your life because you dont apritiate what you have. I am sorry but it looks that way. I made peace with the fact that i will not get core legendary and my life went on. Looks like you cannot do that. > > > > > > > > > > And I you, for similar reasons. > > > > > > > > > > >Raid selling is the same as buying something from a TP in this case. > > > > > > > > > > There are some rather significant differences, but I doubt I'd be capable of explaining them to you in a way that you would be willing to accept. > > > > > > > > > > >I dont know if you enjoyed school all the time but you still went there. You were rewarded. If you want to be working as a dentist you have to study for it. Noone will hire you if you just finished kindergarden. And thats what you are asking for > > > > > > > > > > No, I'm saying I don't want to be a dentist. I want to do a job that requires less complex schooling requirements, and then to do that job, maybe for longer than a dentist would have to, but eventually end up with enough money to buy the same kind of car that the dentist did. *That's* what I'm asking for. > > > > > > > > > > Seriously, this whole conversation's like pulling teeth. > > > > > > > > Nice one :-) > > > > > > > > Also you know that easier raids are the raids we play now? Hard raids are already in game but noone plays them because thay are not rewarded. Anet said they dont want multiple tiers of dificulty and thats why CMs are not rewarded. Same reason for yoir lower raids are to boost CMs > > > > > > it boils down to this: > > > > > > Casual player: I want to play 10 man instances that has less stringent demands on my time, and wont collapse in PUG format. I'm also happy that there is hard level raiding too that others can enjoy. > > > > > > **Hard level raider: (some of them) I want my hard mode, and I don't want the majority to get anything else. its our way or tough.** > > > Problem isn't hard to see, solution is pretty obvious too. > > > > > If it wouldn't be a bother to you, would you please kindly point out to the majority of the hard core raiders that demand hard mode only. As evidence by [this poll](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/18677/do-raids-need-easy-normal-hard-difficulty-mode-merged/p1 "this poll"), they seem to be a minority. > > > > > > Then whats the debate about, if raiders want easy mode too all is well right. it's about the skins and whether or not there should be an alternate path to get the legendary envoy skins. Most of those that argue for easy mode want the legendary envoy in easy mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > > > > 15 minutes ago i knew i had like 20 minutes before lunch so i started GW2, went to lfg, look through raids section and saw that one party at VG needs a chrono, jumped in killed the boss and went out. 10 minutes is very long time to play without break. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice, but an irrelevant anecdote. Most player experiences are not like that. > > > > > > > > > > > > >I pity you Ohoni. Looks like you had to be very sad in your life because you dont apritiate what you have. I am sorry but it looks that way. I made peace with the fact that i will not get core legendary and my life went on. Looks like you cannot do that. > > > > > > > > > > > > And I you, for similar reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > >Raid selling is the same as buying something from a TP in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > There are some rather significant differences, but I doubt I'd be capable of explaining them to you in a way that you would be willing to accept. > > > > > > > > > > > > >I dont know if you enjoyed school all the time but you still went there. You were rewarded. If you want to be working as a dentist you have to study for it. Noone will hire you if you just finished kindergarden. And thats what you are asking for > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I'm saying I don't want to be a dentist. I want to do a job that requires less complex schooling requirements, and then to do that job, maybe for longer than a dentist would have to, but eventually end up with enough money to buy the same kind of car that the dentist did. *That's* what I'm asking for. > > > > > > > > > > > > Seriously, this whole conversation's like pulling teeth. > > > > > > > > > > Nice one :-) > > > > > > > > > > Also you know that easier raids are the raids we play now? Hard raids are already in game but noone plays them because thay are not rewarded. Anet said they dont want multiple tiers of dificulty and thats why CMs are not rewarded. Same reason for yoir lower raids are to boost CMs > > > > > > > > it boils down to this: > > > > > > > > Casual player: I want to play 10 man instances that has less stringent demands on my time, and wont collapse in PUG format. I'm also happy that there is hard level raiding too that others can enjoy. > > > > > > > > **Hard level raider: (some of them) I want my hard mode, and I don't want the majority to get anything else. its our way or tough.** > > > > Problem isn't hard to see, solution is pretty obvious too. > > > > > > > If it wouldn't be a bother to you, would you please kindly point out to the majority of the hard core raiders that demand hard mode only. As evidence by [this poll](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/18677/do-raids-need-easy-normal-hard-difficulty-mode-merged/p1 "this poll"), they seem to be a minority. > > > > > > > > > > Then whats the debate about, if raiders want easy mode too all is well right. > > it's about the skins and whether or not there should be an alternate path to get the legendary envoy skins well you can already get legendary skins for wvw and pvp, and legendary weapons from open world gathering. existing raids have their envoy gear, and easy mode raids would have its own legendary gear. So no issue right? put it this way: existing raiding has lege3ndary wvw has legendary pvp has legendary so why would an easier style of raid not get legendary rewards over time so there is long term goals - why would you ever not do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > > > > > 15 minutes ago i knew i had like 20 minutes before lunch so i started GW2, went to lfg, look through raids section and saw that one party at VG needs a chrono, jumped in killed the boss and went out. 10 minutes is very long time to play without break. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice, but an irrelevant anecdote. Most player experiences are not like that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I pity you Ohoni. Looks like you had to be very sad in your life because you dont apritiate what you have. I am sorry but it looks that way. I made peace with the fact that i will not get core legendary and my life went on. Looks like you cannot do that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I you, for similar reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Raid selling is the same as buying something from a TP in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are some rather significant differences, but I doubt I'd be capable of explaining them to you in a way that you would be willing to accept. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I dont know if you enjoyed school all the time but you still went there. You were rewarded. If you want to be working as a dentist you have to study for it. Noone will hire you if you just finished kindergarden. And thats what you are asking for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I'm saying I don't want to be a dentist. I want to do a job that requires less complex schooling requirements, and then to do that job, maybe for longer than a dentist would have to, but eventually end up with enough money to buy the same kind of car that the dentist did. *That's* what I'm asking for. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seriously, this whole conversation's like pulling teeth. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice one :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Also you know that easier raids are the raids we play now? Hard raids are already in game but noone plays them because thay are not rewarded. Anet said they dont want multiple tiers of dificulty and thats why CMs are not rewarded. Same reason for yoir lower raids are to boost CMs > > > > > > > > > > it boils down to this: > > > > > > > > > > Casual player: I want to play 10 man instances that has less stringent demands on my time, and wont collapse in PUG format. I'm also happy that there is hard level raiding too that others can enjoy. > > > > > > > > > > **Hard level raider: (some of them) I want my hard mode, and I don't want the majority to get anything else. its our way or tough.** > > > > > Problem isn't hard to see, solution is pretty obvious too. > > > > > > > > > If it wouldn't be a bother to you, would you please kindly point out to the majority of the hard core raiders that demand hard mode only. As evidence by [this poll](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/18677/do-raids-need-easy-normal-hard-difficulty-mode-merged/p1 "this poll"), they seem to be a minority. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then whats the debate about, if raiders want easy mode too all is well right. > > > > it's about the skins and whether or not there should be an alternate path to get the legendary envoy skins > > well you can already get legendary skins for wvw and pvp, and legendary weapons from open world gathering. existing raids have their envoy gear, and easy mode raids would have its own legendary gear. So no issue right? > > put it this way: > > existing raiding has lege3ndary > wvw has legendary > pvp has legendary > so why would an easier style of raid not get legendary rewards over time so there is long term goals - why would you ever not do that? The counter argument is: It's not the skin I want, I want [this](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Perfected_Envoy_armor "this") skin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrizzFreston.5290 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 > @"Cynn.1659" said: > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > Kinda going a bit extreme here...Tex. Clearly you weren’t reading large chronicle that is this thread. Make a coffee, toast a pop tart, find a comfy seat and have a boo at what most people on our side of the fence, would like to see. > > > > Was the quote of most people or of an extreme position by someone who wants to ear "Raid Specific" rewards in any mode of play because that's how they see the game should work ? > > > > I've read the thread despite what you believe, there are some reasonable ideas. None of them belong to Ohoni. > > > > The wanting to overhaul LFG and Guild tools is something i've long supported. Changing Raids themselves to be something they aren't aimed a demographic that will likely never even do the easy mode is a waste. Changing the reward structure so that people can get Raid items in whereveristan isn't something that anyone regardless of position on the issue should ever entertain because it devalues the argument at large and turns it into a charity project for the person complaining. > > > > > > Easy mode, story mode call it what you want. People will do it once, then come back there to QQ that there is no real loot and never touch it again. Making it is just a dead time investment for anet. Just like... well all of living world and really just all story and achievements. Which is basically the whole game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > > > > > > 15 minutes ago i knew i had like 20 minutes before lunch so i started GW2, went to lfg, look through raids section and saw that one party at VG needs a chrono, jumped in killed the boss and went out. 10 minutes is very long time to play without break. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice, but an irrelevant anecdote. Most player experiences are not like that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I pity you Ohoni. Looks like you had to be very sad in your life because you dont apritiate what you have. I am sorry but it looks that way. I made peace with the fact that i will not get core legendary and my life went on. Looks like you cannot do that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I you, for similar reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Raid selling is the same as buying something from a TP in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are some rather significant differences, but I doubt I'd be capable of explaining them to you in a way that you would be willing to accept. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I dont know if you enjoyed school all the time but you still went there. You were rewarded. If you want to be working as a dentist you have to study for it. Noone will hire you if you just finished kindergarden. And thats what you are asking for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I'm saying I don't want to be a dentist. I want to do a job that requires less complex schooling requirements, and then to do that job, maybe for longer than a dentist would have to, but eventually end up with enough money to buy the same kind of car that the dentist did. *That's* what I'm asking for. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seriously, this whole conversation's like pulling teeth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice one :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also you know that easier raids are the raids we play now? Hard raids are already in game but noone plays them because thay are not rewarded. Anet said they dont want multiple tiers of dificulty and thats why CMs are not rewarded. Same reason for yoir lower raids are to boost CMs > > > > > > > > > > > > it boils down to this: > > > > > > > > > > > > Casual player: I want to play 10 man instances that has less stringent demands on my time, and wont collapse in PUG format. I'm also happy that there is hard level raiding too that others can enjoy. > > > > > > > > > > > > **Hard level raider: (some of them) I want my hard mode, and I don't want the majority to get anything else. its our way or tough.** > > > > > > Problem isn't hard to see, solution is pretty obvious too. > > > > > > > > > > > If it wouldn't be a bother to you, would you please kindly point out to the majority of the hard core raiders that demand hard mode only. As evidence by [this poll](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/18677/do-raids-need-easy-normal-hard-difficulty-mode-merged/p1 "this poll"), they seem to be a minority. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then whats the debate about, if raiders want easy mode too all is well right. > > > > > > it's about the skins and whether or not there should be an alternate path to get the legendary envoy skins > > > > well you can already get legendary skins for wvw and pvp, and legendary weapons from open world gathering. existing raids have their envoy gear, and easy mode raids would have its own legendary gear. So no issue right? > > > > put it this way: > > > > existing raiding has lege3ndary > > wvw has legendary > > pvp has legendary > > so why would an easier style of raid not get legendary rewards over time so there is long term goals - why would you ever not do that? > > The counter argument is: It's not the skin I want, I want [this](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Perfected_Envoy_armor "this") skin obviously everyone with common sense should expect the legendary armor in an easy mode raid to be unique, so in that case it looks as if everyone can be agreement by saying: Easy mode raids are a good thing as long as the legendary armor from hard mode is not available in easy mode and the legendary skins from easy mode is different and take proportionally longer to gather (in line with wvw/pvp) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButcherofMalakir.4067 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > > > > > > > 15 minutes ago i knew i had like 20 minutes before lunch so i started GW2, went to lfg, look through raids section and saw that one party at VG needs a chrono, jumped in killed the boss and went out. 10 minutes is very long time to play without break. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice, but an irrelevant anecdote. Most player experiences are not like that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I pity you Ohoni. Looks like you had to be very sad in your life because you dont apritiate what you have. I am sorry but it looks that way. I made peace with the fact that i will not get core legendary and my life went on. Looks like you cannot do that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I you, for similar reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Raid selling is the same as buying something from a TP in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are some rather significant differences, but I doubt I'd be capable of explaining them to you in a way that you would be willing to accept. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I dont know if you enjoyed school all the time but you still went there. You were rewarded. If you want to be working as a dentist you have to study for it. Noone will hire you if you just finished kindergarden. And thats what you are asking for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I'm saying I don't want to be a dentist. I want to do a job that requires less complex schooling requirements, and then to do that job, maybe for longer than a dentist would have to, but eventually end up with enough money to buy the same kind of car that the dentist did. *That's* what I'm asking for. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seriously, this whole conversation's like pulling teeth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice one :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also you know that easier raids are the raids we play now? Hard raids are already in game but noone plays them because thay are not rewarded. Anet said they dont want multiple tiers of dificulty and thats why CMs are not rewarded. Same reason for yoir lower raids are to boost CMs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it boils down to this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Casual player: I want to play 10 man instances that has less stringent demands on my time, and wont collapse in PUG format. I'm also happy that there is hard level raiding too that others can enjoy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **Hard level raider: (some of them) I want my hard mode, and I don't want the majority to get anything else. its our way or tough.** > > > > > > > Problem isn't hard to see, solution is pretty obvious too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it wouldn't be a bother to you, would you please kindly point out to the majority of the hard core raiders that demand hard mode only. As evidence by [this poll](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/18677/do-raids-need-easy-normal-hard-difficulty-mode-merged/p1 "this poll"), they seem to be a minority. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then whats the debate about, if raiders want easy mode too all is well right. > > > > > > > > it's about the skins and whether or not there should be an alternate path to get the legendary envoy skins > > > > > > well you can already get legendary skins for wvw and pvp, and legendary weapons from open world gathering. existing raids have their envoy gear, and easy mode raids would have its own legendary gear. So no issue right? > > > > > > put it this way: > > > > > > existing raiding has lege3ndary > > > wvw has legendary > > > pvp has legendary > > > so why would an easier style of raid not get legendary rewards over time so there is long term goals - why would you ever not do that? > > > > The counter argument is: It's not the skin I want, I want [this](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Perfected_Envoy_armor "this") skin > > obviously everyone with common sense should expect the legendary armor in an easy mode raid to be unique, so in that case it looks as if everyone can be agreement by saying: > > Easy mode raids are a good thing as long as the legendary armor from hard mode is not available in easy mode and the legendary skins from easy mode is different and take proportionally longer to gather (in line with wvw/pvp) . Ad infinitum is also not rewarded only for easy fractals. You can get it by playing mostly lower tier fractals but you need to play T4 alittle bit. I can support the same treatmet for raids but i will not give legendary armor to anyone who doesnt do normal raids alittle bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > Well, i tried to go out of my comfort zone and come up with something. I hope you know that before hot players were leaving because here was no endgame content and you are trying to make the highest of endgame content easier. Nah, of the the people you speak of most left in the first year of the game. The people leaving later were doing that not because of lack of endgame content, but due to the lack of _new_ content in general. HoT and raids didn't stop that, by the way - it only slowed down when they started _LS3_. Think about it - living story content has done far, far more for the game that raids ever could. > I dont know if you relise how many players will leave this game if they had nothing to work for when everything could be done multiple ways or with shorter time. Most players do not raid. Locking some long-term rewards behind them remove them from the reach of the majority of the game population. That means those players have one goal less to go for. How do you think it impacs the longevity of the content for those players? > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > To chime in on the amount of time you need, you still need to get your provisioner tokens. Show of hands, who here has 300 of those? I started to farm for mine after I got all my li, worst part of the journey, far worse than any of the boss fights. Because it's both mindnumbingly boring, and badly done. I'd vastly prefer if those vendors all wanted a single, _stackable_ type of crafted item. Managing inventory space is probably the worst part of it - you can't stack up on all 300 required items and then keep visiting vendors every day. You need to keep crafting/buying the items day after day after day. > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > Once again, it's not about the time, it's about the lack of effort. Players debating here, we've played for MUCH more than 7 months. It's safe to say we'll be playing in 7 months time as well. So if there is no effort involved, it's functionally equivalent to instant gratification. Change it to "easy gratification" if you like. > > That's not how it works. It would be only if the effort would have been put into something the player would do anyway. It's however 7 months of _additional_ effort. Effort that player would not have done otherwise. On the other hand, if someone likes raids and would be raiding even without that armor, then the armor _doesn't_ require from him any additional effort. Wouldn't that be "effortless gratification" then? > > > > (by the way, i have already covered why i consider the argument "time doesn't matter" to be wrong, so i won't be going over it again) > > > > > > So just go for the already existing gratification if you think it might be effortless. :) Effortless for raiders, since they are raiding anyway and need not put any additional effort to get the armor. Obviously there _would_ be an additional effort (a lot of it) for someone that doesn't raid. But then that person _doesn't_ raid, so it's mostly irrelevant. > Also, it is exactly how it works. Wanna know where you went wrong? In the "additional" part. Why would it be additional? You can simply switch one activity with another, equally not requiring any real effort on your side. Sure, but i'd be forfeiting another goal for those 7 months. A goal i'd likely go back to later on. So, that _still_ is a 7 months of additional goals for me in the game > The difference with actual raids being precisely why it's not effortless gratification - because it pushes you further than the existing content. You're saying that raids are a non-existing content? > @"Feanor.2358" said: > It is happening, but it's an exception. Besides, nobody buys it *all*, like I've said before. Some guilds have a special package price for buying it all specifically because there's a demand to it. There are people that bought it all, there will be people that will buy it all, and there's that one person i heard who, when asked if he had bought the raid runs for his armor answered "no, i bought the whole raid guild instead" > @"Feanor.2358" said: > "A casual whale" is also statistically insignificant number, by *definition*. Most whales aren't really hardcore players (hardcores prefer to get their stuff in the game, instead of buying it outright). > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > Ad infinitum is also not rewarded only for easy fractals. You can get it by playing mostly lower tier fractals but you need to play T4 alittle bit. Not CMs though, and none of the hardest fractals. It's as if the hardest thing to do in current mode raids was to kill Samarog or Gorse once. And everything else would require easymode at most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptAurellian.9537 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > Ad infinitum is also not rewarded only for easy fractals. You can get it by playing mostly lower tier fractals but you need to play T4 alittle bit. > Not CMs though, and none of the hardest fractals. It's as if the hardest thing to do in current mode raids was to kill Samarog or Gorse once. And everything else would require easymode at most. No surprise, since Ad Infinitum is quite a bit older than the new fractals. If it was released now, I'm fairly sure that it would require them, maybe even CMs, just like raid legy armor requires the raids that were available when it shipped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptAurellian.9537 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > Ad infinitum is also not rewarded only for easy fractals. You can get it by playing mostly lower tier fractals but you need to play T4 alittle bit. > Not CMs though, and none of the hardest fractals. It's as if the hardest thing to do in current mode raids was to kill Samarog or Gorse once. And everything else would require easymode at most. No surprise, since Ad Infinitum is quite a bit older than the new fractals. If it was released now, I'm fairly sure that it would require them, maybe even CMs, just like raid legy armor requires the raids that were available when it shipped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 exact same principle for the new easier mode > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > Well, i tried to go out of my comfort zone and come up with something. I hope you know that before hot players were leaving because here was no endgame content and you are trying to make the highest of endgame content easier. > Nah, of the the people you speak of most left in the first year of the game. The people leaving later were doing that not because of lack of endgame content, but due to the lack of _new_ content in general. HoT and raids didn't stop that, by the way - it only slowed down when they started _LS3_. Think about it - living story content has done far, far more for the game that raids ever could. > > > I dont know if you relise how many players will leave this game if they had nothing to work for when everything could be done multiple ways or with shorter time. > Most players do not raid. Locking some long-term rewards behind them remove them from the reach of the majority of the game population. That means those players have one goal less to go for. How do you think it impacs the longevity of the content for those players? > > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > To chime in on the amount of time you need, you still need to get your provisioner tokens. Show of hands, who here has 300 of those? I started to farm for mine after I got all my li, worst part of the journey, far worse than any of the boss fights. > Because it's both mindnumbingly boring, and badly done. I'd vastly prefer if those vendors all wanted a single, _stackable_ type of crafted item. Managing inventory space is probably the worst part of it - you can't stack up on all 300 required items and then keep visiting vendors every day. You need to keep crafting/buying the items day after day after day. > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > Once again, it's not about the time, it's about the lack of effort. Players debating here, we've played for MUCH more than 7 months. It's safe to say we'll be playing in 7 months time as well. So if there is no effort involved, it's functionally equivalent to instant gratification. Change it to "easy gratification" if you like. > > > That's not how it works. It would be only if the effort would have been put into something the player would do anyway. It's however 7 months of _additional_ effort. Effort that player would not have done otherwise. On the other hand, if someone likes raids and would be raiding even without that armor, then the armor _doesn't_ require from him any additional effort. Wouldn't that be "effortless gratification" then? > > > > > > (by the way, i have already covered why i consider the argument "time doesn't matter" to be wrong, so i won't be going over it again) > > > > > > > > > > So just go for the already existing gratification if you think it might be effortless. :) > Effortless for raiders, since they are raiding anyway and need not put any additional effort to get the armor. Obviously there _would_ be an additional effort (a lot of it) for someone that doesn't raid. But then that person _doesn't_ raid, so it's mostly irrelevant. > > > Also, it is exactly how it works. Wanna know where you went wrong? In the "additional" part. Why would it be additional? You can simply switch one activity with another, equally not requiring any real effort on your side. > Sure, but i'd be forfeiting another goal for those 7 months. A goal i'd likely go back to later on. So, that _still_ is a 7 months of additional goals for me in the game > > > The difference with actual raids being precisely why it's not effortless gratification - because it pushes you further than the existing content. > You're saying that raids are a non-existing content? > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > It is happening, but it's an exception. Besides, nobody buys it *all*, like I've said before. > Some guilds have a special package price for buying it all specifically because there's a demand to it. There are people that bought it all, there will be people that will buy it all, and there's that one person i heard who, when asked if he had bought the raid runs for his armor answered "no, i bought the whole raid guild instead" > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > "A casual whale" is also statistically insignificant number, by *definition*. > Most whales aren't really hardcore players (hardcores prefer to get their stuff in the game, instead of buying it outright). > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > Ad infinitum is also not rewarded only for easy fractals. You can get it by playing mostly lower tier fractals but you need to play T4 alittle bit. > Not CMs though, and none of the hardest fractals. It's as if the hardest thing to do in current mode raids was to kill Samarog or Gorse once. And everything else would require easymode at most. > well even 100 level fractals are easy enough, so exact same principle for the easy mode raids apply, you have to beat the final boss etc for the special token x etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > >Anyone here thinking ANet sell their own gemstore skins at a much lower price than they could? If there are people like that, stop fooling yourselves. The standard price for an outfit is 700 gems. > > They certainly could charge more, but it's obviously a balancing act. If you charge 700 gems for an item, then a certain number will buy it. If you charge 1400 for it, you make more per customer, but less will buy it, and so on. Figuring out the best price is trying to figure out the maximum audience, and then scaling the price to get as much as you can out of as many of them as possible, without driving too many away. I feel they've missed the mark in some cases, but they certainly could sell them at a higher price and *some* would still buy them. *Precisely* my point. The majority of the people are comfortable paying around this price tag. You're arguing about one which is more than *a hundred times* higher. The number of the people willing to pay will not be 1%, of those willing to buy at the normal tag, it will be *much* lower. For stuff like this you can safely assume a bell curve distribution, and you'll be looking at its very end, where it approaches the zero line. No statistical significance whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 > @"CptAurellian.9537" said: > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > Ad infinitum is also not rewarded only for easy fractals. You can get it by playing mostly lower tier fractals but you need to play T4 alittle bit. > > Not CMs though, and none of the hardest fractals. It's as if the hardest thing to do in current mode raids was to kill Samarog or Gorse once. And everything else would require easymode at most. > No surprise, since Ad Infinitum is quite a bit older than the new fractals. If it was released now, I'm fairly sure that it would require them, maybe even CMs, just like raid legy armor requires the raids that were available when it shipped. If that were so, you can be sure that the complains about it would have been much higher than they were. > @"Feanor.2358" said: > *Precisely* my point. The majority of the people are comfortable paying around this price tag. You're arguing about one which is more than *a hundred times* higher. The number of the people willing to pay will not be 1%, of those willing to buy at the normal tag, it will be *much* lower. For stuff like this you can safely assume a bell curve distribution, and you'll be looking at its very end, where it approaches the zero line. No statistical significance whatsoever. You seem to forget one important point however. You compare the number of people comfortable with the "700 gems" price to the whole population, but you would be comparing the number of people willing to buy raids with the _raider_ population, which is much smaller. On gw2efficiency, the number of people with completed both raid armor precursor collections is at 7%. Not only is that number overstated, due to sites like efficiency being biased towards hardcore players, it's only the number of people with collection. Number of people with at least one envoy legendary set will certainly be smaller (not everyone with collection will have 150 LI, for one). Thus, even if only a really small number of people out of the whole community are willing to buy raid armor, their relative number among those with the armor will be much higher. A mere 0.5% of the whole population would convert to 10% (or more) of people with Envoy set. At this moment, i'm quite sure that a significant percentage of people with the armor have at least partially bought it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > > > > > 15 minutes ago i knew i had like 20 minutes before lunch so i started GW2, went to lfg, look through raids section and saw that one party at VG needs a chrono, jumped in killed the boss and went out. 10 minutes is very long time to play without break. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice, but an irrelevant anecdote. Most player experiences are not like that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I pity you Ohoni. Looks like you had to be very sad in your life because you dont apritiate what you have. I am sorry but it looks that way. I made peace with the fact that i will not get core legendary and my life went on. Looks like you cannot do that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I you, for similar reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Raid selling is the same as buying something from a TP in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are some rather significant differences, but I doubt I'd be capable of explaining them to you in a way that you would be willing to accept. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I dont know if you enjoyed school all the time but you still went there. You were rewarded. If you want to be working as a dentist you have to study for it. Noone will hire you if you just finished kindergarden. And thats what you are asking for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I'm saying I don't want to be a dentist. I want to do a job that requires less complex schooling requirements, and then to do that job, maybe for longer than a dentist would have to, but eventually end up with enough money to buy the same kind of car that the dentist did. *That's* what I'm asking for. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seriously, this whole conversation's like pulling teeth. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice one :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Also you know that easier raids are the raids we play now? Hard raids are already in game but noone plays them because thay are not rewarded. Anet said they dont want multiple tiers of dificulty and thats why CMs are not rewarded. Same reason for yoir lower raids are to boost CMs > > > > > > > > > > it boils down to this: > > > > > > > > > > Casual player: I want to play 10 man instances that has less stringent demands on my time, and wont collapse in PUG format. I'm also happy that there is hard level raiding too that others can enjoy. > > > > > > > > > > **Hard level raider: (some of them) I want my hard mode, and I don't want the majority to get anything else. its our way or tough.** > > > > > Problem isn't hard to see, solution is pretty obvious too. > > > > > > > > > If it wouldn't be a bother to you, would you please kindly point out to the majority of the hard core raiders that demand hard mode only. As evidence by [this poll](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/18677/do-raids-need-easy-normal-hard-difficulty-mode-merged/p1 "this poll"), they seem to be a minority. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then whats the debate about, if raiders want easy mode too all is well right. > > > > it's about the skins and whether or not there should be an alternate path to get the legendary envoy skins > > well you can already get legendary skins for wvw and pvp, and legendary weapons from open world gathering. existing raids have their envoy gear, and easy mode raids would have its own legendary gear. So no issue right? > > put it this way: > > existing raiding has lege3ndary > wvw has legendary > pvp has legendary > so why would an easier style of raid not get legendary rewards over time so there is long term goals - why would you ever not do that? if we go by that statment it would be existing ascended skins with a light effect but thats not what people want from this thread it seems to be we want same skins as the hard mode to be easier to get over maybe longer time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 > @"Linken.6345" said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > > > > > > 15 minutes ago i knew i had like 20 minutes before lunch so i started GW2, went to lfg, look through raids section and saw that one party at VG needs a chrono, jumped in killed the boss and went out. 10 minutes is very long time to play without break. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice, but an irrelevant anecdote. Most player experiences are not like that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I pity you Ohoni. Looks like you had to be very sad in your life because you dont apritiate what you have. I am sorry but it looks that way. I made peace with the fact that i will not get core legendary and my life went on. Looks like you cannot do that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I you, for similar reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Raid selling is the same as buying something from a TP in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are some rather significant differences, but I doubt I'd be capable of explaining them to you in a way that you would be willing to accept. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I dont know if you enjoyed school all the time but you still went there. You were rewarded. If you want to be working as a dentist you have to study for it. Noone will hire you if you just finished kindergarden. And thats what you are asking for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I'm saying I don't want to be a dentist. I want to do a job that requires less complex schooling requirements, and then to do that job, maybe for longer than a dentist would have to, but eventually end up with enough money to buy the same kind of car that the dentist did. *That's* what I'm asking for. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seriously, this whole conversation's like pulling teeth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice one :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also you know that easier raids are the raids we play now? Hard raids are already in game but noone plays them because thay are not rewarded. Anet said they dont want multiple tiers of dificulty and thats why CMs are not rewarded. Same reason for yoir lower raids are to boost CMs > > > > > > > > > > > > it boils down to this: > > > > > > > > > > > > Casual player: I want to play 10 man instances that has less stringent demands on my time, and wont collapse in PUG format. I'm also happy that there is hard level raiding too that others can enjoy. > > > > > > > > > > > > **Hard level raider: (some of them) I want my hard mode, and I don't want the majority to get anything else. its our way or tough.** > > > > > > Problem isn't hard to see, solution is pretty obvious too. > > > > > > > > > > > If it wouldn't be a bother to you, would you please kindly point out to the majority of the hard core raiders that demand hard mode only. As evidence by [this poll](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/18677/do-raids-need-easy-normal-hard-difficulty-mode-merged/p1 "this poll"), they seem to be a minority. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then whats the debate about, if raiders want easy mode too all is well right. > > > > > > it's about the skins and whether or not there should be an alternate path to get the legendary envoy skins > > > > well you can already get legendary skins for wvw and pvp, and legendary weapons from open world gathering. existing raids have their envoy gear, and easy mode raids would have its own legendary gear. So no issue right? > > > > put it this way: > > > > existing raiding has lege3ndary > > wvw has legendary > > pvp has legendary > > so why would an easier style of raid not get legendary rewards over time so there is long term goals - why would you ever not do that? > > if we go by that statment it would be existing ascended skins with a light effect but thats not what people want from this thread it seems to be we want same skins as the hard mode to be easier to get over maybe longer time. i've went through this thread and other threads, by far the vast majority is asking for easy mode raids, not easy raid modes with the existing raiding gear. I'm assuming then you are perfectly happy if the easy mode raid didn't give the gear the armor sets you get from the existing raids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"CptAurellian.9537" said: > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > Ad infinitum is also not rewarded only for easy fractals. You can get it by playing mostly lower tier fractals but you need to play T4 alittle bit. > > > Not CMs though, and none of the hardest fractals. It's as if the hardest thing to do in current mode raids was to kill Samarog or Gorse once. And everything else would require easymode at most. > > No surprise, since Ad Infinitum is quite a bit older than the new fractals. If it was released now, I'm fairly sure that it would require them, maybe even CMs, just like raid legy armor requires the raids that were available when it shipped. > If that were so, you can be sure that the complains about it would have been much higher than they were. > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > *Precisely* my point. The majority of the people are comfortable paying around this price tag. You're arguing about one which is more than *a hundred times* higher. The number of the people willing to pay will not be 1%, of those willing to buy at the normal tag, it will be *much* lower. For stuff like this you can safely assume a bell curve distribution, and you'll be looking at its very end, where it approaches the zero line. No statistical significance whatsoever. > You seem to forget one important point however. You compare the number of people comfortable with the "700 gems" price to the whole population, but you would be comparing the number of people willing to buy raids with the _raider_ population, which is much smaller. > > On gw2efficiency, the number of people with completed both raid armor precursor collections is at 7%. Not only is that number overstated, due to sites like efficiency being biased towards hardcore players, it's only the number of people with collection. Number of people with at least one envoy legendary set will certainly be smaller (not everyone with collection will have 150 LI, for one). Thus, even if only a really small number of people out of the whole community are willing to buy raid armor, their relative number among those with the armor will be much higher. A mere 0.5% of the whole population would convert to 10% (or more) of people with Envoy set. At this moment, i'm quite sure that a significant percentage of people with the armor have at least partially bought it. > > You seem to forget the source of this particular debate. Let's assume you 10% estimate is correct, although there's no way that many people bought all of it. You're still looking at 90% legit, "did my effort" armors vs 10% no-effort ones. Imagine easy mode access and fast-forward enough to when the grind would allow their completion like that. You'll be looking at 90% (or more) no-effort sets and 10% (or less) legit ones. This is why raid selling isn't an issue in this regard - the number of players who undermine the value of the envoy is statistically insignificant. You could argue about the players who bought an occasional hard achievement/collection, but that's a different story. I still count them in the "did my effort" group, since they earned most of their LIs. Even if they didn't do *all* of it, they killed a lot of raid bosses by themselves. That shows enough dedication and will. It means something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @"Linken.6345" said: > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > > > > > > > 15 minutes ago i knew i had like 20 minutes before lunch so i started GW2, went to lfg, look through raids section and saw that one party at VG needs a chrono, jumped in killed the boss and went out. 10 minutes is very long time to play without break. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice, but an irrelevant anecdote. Most player experiences are not like that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I pity you Ohoni. Looks like you had to be very sad in your life because you dont apritiate what you have. I am sorry but it looks that way. I made peace with the fact that i will not get core legendary and my life went on. Looks like you cannot do that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I you, for similar reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Raid selling is the same as buying something from a TP in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are some rather significant differences, but I doubt I'd be capable of explaining them to you in a way that you would be willing to accept. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I dont know if you enjoyed school all the time but you still went there. You were rewarded. If you want to be working as a dentist you have to study for it. Noone will hire you if you just finished kindergarden. And thats what you are asking for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I'm saying I don't want to be a dentist. I want to do a job that requires less complex schooling requirements, and then to do that job, maybe for longer than a dentist would have to, but eventually end up with enough money to buy the same kind of car that the dentist did. *That's* what I'm asking for. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seriously, this whole conversation's like pulling teeth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice one :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also you know that easier raids are the raids we play now? Hard raids are already in game but noone plays them because thay are not rewarded. Anet said they dont want multiple tiers of dificulty and thats why CMs are not rewarded. Same reason for yoir lower raids are to boost CMs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it boils down to this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Casual player: I want to play 10 man instances that has less stringent demands on my time, and wont collapse in PUG format. I'm also happy that there is hard level raiding too that others can enjoy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **Hard level raider: (some of them) I want my hard mode, and I don't want the majority to get anything else. its our way or tough.** > > > > > > > Problem isn't hard to see, solution is pretty obvious too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it wouldn't be a bother to you, would you please kindly point out to the majority of the hard core raiders that demand hard mode only. As evidence by [this poll](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/18677/do-raids-need-easy-normal-hard-difficulty-mode-merged/p1 "this poll"), they seem to be a minority. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then whats the debate about, if raiders want easy mode too all is well right. > > > > > > > > it's about the skins and whether or not there should be an alternate path to get the legendary envoy skins > > > > > > well you can already get legendary skins for wvw and pvp, and legendary weapons from open world gathering. existing raids have their envoy gear, and easy mode raids would have its own legendary gear. So no issue right? > > > > > > put it this way: > > > > > > existing raiding has lege3ndary > > > wvw has legendary > > > pvp has legendary > > > so why would an easier style of raid not get legendary rewards over time so there is long term goals - why would you ever not do that? > > > > if we go by that statment it would be existing ascended skins with a light effect but thats not what people want from this thread it seems to be we want same skins as the hard mode to be easier to get over maybe longer time. > > i've went through this thread and other threads, by far the vast majority is asking for easy mode raids, not easy raid modes with the existing raiding gear. I'm assuming then you are perfectly happy if the easy mode raid didn't give the gear the armor sets you get from the existing raids? ofcourse as long as its implemented by another team then the raid one so it dont affect normal raid release schedule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 > @"Linken.6345" said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > @"Linken.6345" said: > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > > > > > > > > > > 15 minutes ago i knew i had like 20 minutes before lunch so i started GW2, went to lfg, look through raids section and saw that one party at VG needs a chrono, jumped in killed the boss and went out. 10 minutes is very long time to play without break. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice, but an irrelevant anecdote. Most player experiences are not like that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I pity you Ohoni. Looks like you had to be very sad in your life because you dont apritiate what you have. I am sorry but it looks that way. I made peace with the fact that i will not get core legendary and my life went on. Looks like you cannot do that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I you, for similar reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Raid selling is the same as buying something from a TP in this case. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are some rather significant differences, but I doubt I'd be capable of explaining them to you in a way that you would be willing to accept. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I dont know if you enjoyed school all the time but you still went there. You were rewarded. If you want to be working as a dentist you have to study for it. Noone will hire you if you just finished kindergarden. And thats what you are asking for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I'm saying I don't want to be a dentist. I want to do a job that requires less complex schooling requirements, and then to do that job, maybe for longer than a dentist would have to, but eventually end up with enough money to buy the same kind of car that the dentist did. *That's* what I'm asking for. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seriously, this whole conversation's like pulling teeth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice one :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also you know that easier raids are the raids we play now? Hard raids are already in game but noone plays them because thay are not rewarded. Anet said they dont want multiple tiers of dificulty and thats why CMs are not rewarded. Same reason for yoir lower raids are to boost CMs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it boils down to this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Casual player: I want to play 10 man instances that has less stringent demands on my time, and wont collapse in PUG format. I'm also happy that there is hard level raiding too that others can enjoy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **Hard level raider: (some of them) I want my hard mode, and I don't want the majority to get anything else. its our way or tough.** > > > > > > > > Problem isn't hard to see, solution is pretty obvious too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If it wouldn't be a bother to you, would you please kindly point out to the majority of the hard core raiders that demand hard mode only. As evidence by [this poll](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/18677/do-raids-need-easy-normal-hard-difficulty-mode-merged/p1 "this poll"), they seem to be a minority. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then whats the debate about, if raiders want easy mode too all is well right. > > > > > > > > > > it's about the skins and whether or not there should be an alternate path to get the legendary envoy skins > > > > > > > > well you can already get legendary skins for wvw and pvp, and legendary weapons from open world gathering. existing raids have their envoy gear, and easy mode raids would have its own legendary gear. So no issue right? > > > > > > > > put it this way: > > > > > > > > existing raiding has lege3ndary > > > > wvw has legendary > > > > pvp has legendary > > > > so why would an easier style of raid not get legendary rewards over time so there is long term goals - why would you ever not do that? > > > > > > if we go by that statment it would be existing ascended skins with a light effect but thats not what people want from this thread it seems to be we want same skins as the hard mode to be easier to get over maybe longer time. > > > > i've went through this thread and other threads, by far the vast majority is asking for easy mode raids, not easy raid modes with the existing raiding gear. I'm assuming then you are perfectly happy if the easy mode raid didn't give the gear the armor sets you get from the existing raids? > > ofcourse as long as its implemented by another team then the raid one so it dont affect normal raid release schedule it would have to be another team, you cant do 2 things at once. edit: Maybe that's why raiders object to easy mode, they think it would be the existing team that would do the work? The way software dev works is that you would aim to segregate the work into slices so you would never have the same development team doing both the hard mode and easy mode tweaking, that would be inefficient and a false economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 > @"CptAurellian.9537" said: > Some people probably would like to make it one. Dreams just got ahead of reality. Gw2 the mobile game. Get to pick a race and doll it up with armor you grind for with mindnumbingly repetetive activities! For the low price of $10.99 you can buy an extra character slot, $3.99 for extra bank slots to store the armor you dont want but may want in the future. Buy our unique skins for prices ranging from $5-20, or, to give yoi more options, for $10 you get to open our special loot boxes to recieve a random piece of an in game skin or have a chance at a rare skin piece! And for a one time payment of $1500, you get the prestegious legendary armor. Download now for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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