Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 > @JustTrogdor.7892 said: > > @"Gaile Gray.6029" said: > > > * Design Concerns: This is more subjective, and for every comment about liking this thing or that, there's another comment about not liking it at all. But we've noted what you have to say, with numbers and specific quotes, and we'll look into making some small tweaks, if they are possible and if that's ultimately what we should do. > > Interesting. I have not taken a tally as it isn't my job to do so but from following this thread and others the main feedback that stood out more than others was the design. Mostly the massive amount of white space and second from my casual observation was the clutter. Let's take a look: > > Old forum General Discussion: > https://imgur.com/a/Ii8y1 > > New Forum General Discussion: > https://imgur.com/a/Av64p > > Sure it is subjective, but really. Just compare them. I do not like the new design at all. IMO it is not easy on the eyes and doesn't flow for easy reading. Removing avatars from the forum page and leaving them in the actual thread would clean things up a bit. Avatars on the forum page don't really serve a purpose. Toss in they are just generic avatars that don't really show who posted the thread since everyone and their Skritt has the same ones, even more useless. I really do hope you consider cleaning things up. I know it can be done because the forum software you use, Vanilla Forum allows for a lot of customization. I'm guessing that is why you choose it. > > P.S. Please also consider the ignore/block user addon. It would work great, it works a lot like in game block. > > Oh, and the sticky situation in general, good grief. Please consider cleaning that up some how. See my image link above. It's total chaos. I thought the sticky thing in the old forum was bad, but this dwarfs it by comparison. ;) > How odd. I only see avatars on the far right of the main page of the new forums. No avatars, at all, on the sub-forum pages. I've never looked at the forums on a mobile device; maybe that's where they show up? Since my forum pages look different, maybe that's why I have no 'Report' function on my own posts. Does everyone else have a 'Report' button on their own posts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTrogdor.7892 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > @JustTrogdor.7892 said: > > > @"Gaile Gray.6029" said: > > > > > * Design Concerns: This is more subjective, and for every comment about liking this thing or that, there's another comment about not liking it at all. But we've noted what you have to say, with numbers and specific quotes, and we'll look into making some small tweaks, if they are possible and if that's ultimately what we should do. > > > > Interesting. I have not taken a tally as it isn't my job to do so but from following this thread and others the main feedback that stood out more than others was the design. Mostly the massive amount of white space and second from my casual observation was the clutter. Let's take a look: > > > > Old forum General Discussion: > > https://imgur.com/a/Ii8y1 > > > > New Forum General Discussion: > > https://imgur.com/a/Av64p > > > > Sure it is subjective, but really. Just compare them. I do not like the new design at all. IMO it is not easy on the eyes and doesn't flow for easy reading. Removing avatars from the forum page and leaving them in the actual thread would clean things up a bit. Avatars on the forum page don't really serve a purpose. Toss in they are just generic avatars that don't really show who posted the thread since everyone and their Skritt has the same ones, even more useless. I really do hope you consider cleaning things up. I know it can be done because the forum software you use, Vanilla Forum allows for a lot of customization. I'm guessing that is why you choose it. > > > > P.S. Please also consider the ignore/block user addon. It would work great, it works a lot like in game block. > > > > Oh, and the sticky situation in general, good grief. Please consider cleaning that up some how. See my image link above. It's total chaos. I thought the sticky thing in the old forum was bad, but this dwarfs it by comparison. ;) > > > > How odd. I only see avatars on the far right of the main page of the new forums. No avatars, at all, on the sub-forum pages. I've never looked at the forums on a mobile device; maybe that's where they show up? > > Since my forum pages look different, maybe that's why I have no 'Report' function on my own posts. Does everyone else have a 'Report' button on their own posts? Not the main page where the various forums are listed but when you enter a forum, for example General Discussion. I guess that is a sub-forum. My apologies for not using the proper terminology. It's a mess when in a "sub-forum" IMO. Not on mobile, this is what I see in a "sub-forum" via Firefox. Link to picture again: https://imgur.com/a/Av64p No report link on my own posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Yes, General Discussion, Bugs, PvP, WvW, Community Creations, all the others....none of those have avatars for me. I assume your screenshot is from the regular PC forums, and not from a mobile device (which I understand from others' posts is different). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARIORSCHARGEING.2637 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 been trying to figure out a way to remove these forums pics . I have not changed mine only looked but seen no way to remove my forum pic at all for good . which I find a major disappointment . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTrogdor.7892 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > Yes, General Discussion, Bugs, PvP, WvW, Community Creations, all the others....none of those have avatars for me. I assume your screenshot is from the regular PC forums, and not from a mobile device (which I understand from others' posts is different). Yep normal PC view in normal browsers. Tested Mac and Windows, Firefox, Safari, Chrome. I guess you are lucky you don't see them. I'm thinking of making a greasmonkey script to hide them if Anet doesn't do it. Not mobile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khisanth.2948 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > @JustTrogdor.7892 said: > > > @"Gaile Gray.6029" said: > > > > > * Design Concerns: This is more subjective, and for every comment about liking this thing or that, there's another comment about not liking it at all. But we've noted what you have to say, with numbers and specific quotes, and we'll look into making some small tweaks, if they are possible and if that's ultimately what we should do. > > > > Interesting. I have not taken a tally as it isn't my job to do so but from following this thread and others the main feedback that stood out more than others was the design. Mostly the massive amount of white space and second from my casual observation was the clutter. Let's take a look: > > > > Old forum General Discussion: > > https://imgur.com/a/Ii8y1 > > > > New Forum General Discussion: > > https://imgur.com/a/Av64p > > > > Sure it is subjective, but really. Just compare them. I do not like the new design at all. IMO it is not easy on the eyes and doesn't flow for easy reading. Removing avatars from the forum page and leaving them in the actual thread would clean things up a bit. Avatars on the forum page don't really serve a purpose. Toss in they are just generic avatars that don't really show who posted the thread since everyone and their Skritt has the same ones, even more useless. I really do hope you consider cleaning things up. I know it can be done because the forum software you use, Vanilla Forum allows for a lot of customization. I'm guessing that is why you choose it. > > > > P.S. Please also consider the ignore/block user addon. It would work great, it works a lot like in game block. > > > > Oh, and the sticky situation in general, good grief. Please consider cleaning that up some how. See my image link above. It's total chaos. I thought the sticky thing in the old forum was bad, but this dwarfs it by comparison. ;) > > > > How odd. I only see avatars on the far right of the main page of the new forums. No avatars, at all, on the sub-forum pages. I've never looked at the forums on a mobile device; maybe that's where they show up? > > Since my forum pages look different, maybe that's why I have no 'Report' function on my own posts. Does everyone else have a 'Report' button on their own posts? I just checked my previous post and there is a Report button on it. Although I do also remember times when there wasn't one. I remembered mainly because after thinking about it for a bit I thought it was reasonable that I wouldn't have any reason to report myself. That was before encountering the need for it to delete a post. Edit: AH HA! Found the bug. There is no Report right after posting but if I reload the page the Report shows up. Edit 2: Apparently editing also removes the Report button so basically the async javascript post is probably using a template that excludes the Report button. > @JustTrogdor.7892 said: > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > Yes, General Discussion, Bugs, PvP, WvW, Community Creations, all the others....none of those have avatars for me. I assume your screenshot is from the regular PC forums, and not from a mobile device (which I understand from others' posts is different). > > Yep normal PC view in normal browsers. Tested Mac and Windows, Firefox, Safari, Chrome. I guess you are lucky you don't see them. I'm thinking of making a greasmonkey script to hide them if Anet doesn't do it. Not mobile. Stylus is pretty nice for modifying just the styles. Obligatory shameless plug -> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/3073/customizing-the-new-forum#latest :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Hmm. I guess I have an odd version of the forums. No avatars and no 'Report' button. Funny, though, I see the avatars on the main page. Oh, well. Good/not so good for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTrogdor.7892 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > Hmm. I guess I have an odd version of the forums. No avatars and no 'Report' button. Funny, though, I see the avatars on the main page. > Oh, well. Good/not so good for me. That is odd. If you don't mind would you take a screen cap and link to it of what you see. I'm curious. Makes me wonder if Anet is even seeing what we are seeing if some people have different views than others. As to the report bug, I too didn't see a report option on my own post until I reloaded the thread. Then it showed up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Oh! I didn't think of reloading the thread. Thanks for that idea; I will try it. I'm afraid I have no idea how to take a screenshot of the forums....sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTrogdor.7892 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > Oh! I didn't think of reloading the thread. Thanks for that idea; I will try it. > I'm afraid I have no idea how to take a screenshot of the forums....sorry. I think I figured out why you may not be seeing the avatars in sub-forums. It depends on your resolution I think. I recall you stated you play on a laptop. When I shrink my my browser window down the avatars disappear. Example: https://imgur.com/a/SM2Wk I certainly prefer that view opposed to what I see full screen. I wonder if there is a way I can do that without shrinking my browser window down. Oh and for a screen grab if you are using Windows search Snip. It will allow you to select the portion of screen you want to capture and save it where you want. Select the Start button, type snipping tool in the search box on the taskbar, and then select Snipping Tool from the list of results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Ahh, thanks. I do play on a laptop; my resolution is 1366 x 768. Yay, me...lol. I guess. Advantages of playing on a toaster. Ha ha. Oh, and reloading the page made the report button appear. Though, it doesn't appear if I look at old posts (you know, where I've left the page and returned some time later. That seems odd, as well). But, if reloading the page enables the report button, all is good. = ) Thanks for all the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTrogdor.7892 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Going to my old posts still shows the report option for me. That is odd. Of course I'm not sure why I would want to report my own post anyway. Other people do that for me enough as it is. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 It's to remove duplicates, or such. I know you think I reported you, but I didn't. No reason to report for using words that aren't filtered, and the post wasn't removed, so whoever reported it didn't achieve anything. /shrug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTrogdor.7892 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > It's to remove duplicates, or such. I know you think I reported you, but I didn't. No reason to report for using words that aren't filtered, and the post wasn't removed, so whoever reported it didn't achieve anything. /shrug I wasn't talking about you in this case, and I was probably mistaken in the example you provided. Sorry for that. I've earned my fair share of reported posts and the people that did so were correct, well most of the time, a few times not so much. I'm going to miss the old forum as I kept my saved PMs limited to forum infraction messages. It's good reading depending on how you may view such things. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 No problem. I'd rather be your friend. Lol, I have around 800 old Forum Mod PMs saved. It's really a shame they didn't want to archive the old forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asumir.1978 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Holy cow! The search function *works*! THANK YOU, ARENANET! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torsailr.8456 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 My first reaction to the forums...after the surprise! you have a new forum...was thank god, we have an up/down vote feature. Fast forward a week and half of it has been removed? Really, what the...? How the....? Why would you do that? I can't see any way that it makes sense. Every argument against down votes applies equally well to upvotes. Every argument for down votes applies equally well to upvotes. With both you have a valid means of evaluating posts. You can see how many people took the time to agree to it AND you can see how many people took the time to disagree with it; the two in conjuction give you a powerful tool for determining what people like, what people don't like and what is contentious. By eliminating the down votes you can no longer see what is disagreed with, all you can see is how many people agreed with it. You may see a post with 25 upvotes but you can't see that it also has 100 downvotes and vice versa. One without the other gives you half the perspective which can be more misleading than none. With only upvotes, the only way to get the appropriate perspective for a post is to look for specific replies to a post and see how well they were upvoted...thats if the person has the time to go searching for it. If you're going to take away the downvotes you should remove upvotes as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
symke.3105 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 > @"Moira Shalaar.5620" said: > > @"Miss Lana.5276" said: > > > @"Silent The Gray.3091" said: > > > Just throwing this in here because I feel it needs to be continually addressed: > > > > > > Why is Reddit more official than the official forums? > > > > > > It is something I have always wondered about, never can seem to get a straight answer on why Arenanet loves Reddit more than their own forums. It's the equivalent of the CEO of a car company never driving the car his company manufactures and driving the competitors instead. Not only is it bad taste, it shows a lack of respect and loyalty to the company, is there some kind of internal secret reason why Reddit is more official that we just aren't going to be filled in on? If so that's okay by me, I'm just legitimately curious how it makes business sense. From the customer point of view, I'm not entirely sure where I'm supposed to get my updates still to this day, because the place you think you should be getting them, isn't the right place, i.e. the Guild Wars 2 forums SHOULD be the right place, instead it is actually Reddit. > > > > > > There are actually less updates on the development of the game on the forums than there are on Reddit and that really saddens me. Does Reddit have a better forum system than Arenanet? Is there something wrong with the forum system used here? Maybe Reddit has more resources, though I'd find that difficult to believe. Maybe the development teams at Arenanet hate their own forums so much that they refuse to use them. I have no idea what the reason could be, but I know that from the outside looking in, it just isn't proper. If you were playing World of Warcraft for example, no one in their right mind would think "Hey, I need to get my updates and information for this game from Yahoo Finance." No one in their right mind does that kind of stuff, so why do we do it here? > > > > > > Maybe they get a lot of funding from Reddit, the players who spend the most money on the game reside on Reddit, or Anet really just doesn't care about their own forums. There can only be so many reasons for their utter hate of their own forums. I do mean hate too, it's an insane ratio of Reddit posts by developers versus official forum posts. > > > > I agree with everything about this post. When something is addressed on reddit and not on the official forums it feels to me like the devs are trying to be sneaky about something by not telling the entire playerbase. I've seen comments by devs about a certain topic on reddit on day 1, but the first dev response I see about it on the forums it's 10+ days later. And if you confront them about this they just ignore it, which makes it all the more aggravating. > > > > Forget signatures, forget thumbs up/down. **THIS** is what needs to be addressed. If this alone is improved in the new forum I will be a happy necro. > > > > EDIT: A great example of this happening **RIGHT NOW** is a dev replying to concerns about the material storage change coming with PoF on **REDDIT**, but *NO ONE* is replying to the topic here. > > I saw a developer comment on this a while back (Might even have been MO), although for the life of me I couldn't say where (probably reddit ;-P) but the gist of what I remember is that many/most devs post on their own initiative and quite often on their own time. Anet doesn't require them to post on the official forums, so some of it is personal preference on the part of the developers, and part of it is the ability reddit allows for interactive conversations that are not as viable on the forums. They do try to make sure that important announcements at least start on the forums. > > EDIT: > "Forum posting is a voluntary option for developers. It’s great that Matt shared the info, and extra great that he’s working with me to share this globally and to share additional bits that he comes up with, too." > > "Nike — no one’s telling people they need to put on a suit and a tie before they post. **Devs post when, where, and as they desire, with a very general and reasonable guideline**, which Mike O’Brien shared with forum members a long while ago: “We don’t talk speculatively about future development.” > So please don’t believe anyone’s being told to muzzle it. Devs post and respond when they’re able to do so, and if they’re anything like me, they delight in that interaction with our players." > > These comments by Gaile are probably what I am remembering, and here is the link for as long as it is viable. Both sets of comments are from that same thread. > https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/On-Legendaries-from-Dev I agree with Miss Lana as I also find such practice unreasonable. About bolded part: Jane/John Doe is as free as a bird and can do as she/he likes. A dev is something different. Besides other things she/he is also a represenatative of a company. If devs were posting their Reddit comments, updates or whatever as "civilians", there would be nothing to say about it. As the comment above states, they are free to do as they desire. But they do so as official representatives from the company. And we are not talking about "I'll post on reddit first and then on the GW2 forum, where most of my customers are and where such an information should be". So, the question I have to ask is: Will this new forum make this a thing of the past? Someone mentioned they might prefer reddit's form of discussion. Is this the sole reason? If so, will this new forum allow such a functionality? If this is not the reason ... why? What is preventing or stopping them in posting here as well? If there's a question on reddit dev wants to answer and there's no such question or thread on this forum, what's preventing her/him to copy the post here? Or ask someone in community management dept to do it? Or is plausible deniability the only reason? Meaning "If it is not said on our official pages, we can deny anything". I understand that. I don't agree with it, but I do understand. But wouldn't it make more sense if ANET then instructed their devs to post as musch as they desire, but to do so as official representative only on these official pages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andred.1087 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 > @"Gaile Gray.6029" said: > I have spoken to the issue of not being able to accept/allow images and at this point additional feedback on that subject is pretty much redundant and unnecessary. Unfortunately, no matter the level of discontent or disapproval -- even my own! -- nothing will cause the reversal of that decision in the short term. I stated in my report that I hope our security oversight will eventually come to see a way for us to accept images, but candidly, I do not expect that to happen any time soon, if at all. > > In my dreams I'd be able to gather hard data to show how many forums accept images, how many using Vanilla software accept images, how many security incidents have arisen through that acceptance, and other points of data that would basically make the case for us reversing the "no images" decision. However, I don't have the time or the approval to spend time on this subject, for those who know security far better than I already have spoken on the subject and it was on their recommendation that the decision was made. I'm sure I missed something, but what on Earth are you talking about re: "security incidents?" Am I imagining things or are there really zero programmers at ArenaNet with web experience? After 5 years of miserable, broken forum software that nobody could fix (understandably since it was likely contracted), y'all finally switched over to something new, and it's only marginally better; and still, nobody seems to have any clue how to address what should be *basic* forum functionality. Vanilla is open source... anything can be changed. Do y'all need me to fix something for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djinn.9245 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Another Thing I Miss About the Old Forums You can't click on the poster's name in a quote and go back to that post. Often when I'm replying to a post in a thread, there are already many posts in that thread. So after I make the post and it takes me to the bottom of the page, in the old forums I would click on the name of the poster I replied to and it would take me back to the place in the thread so I could continue reading posts. This was a great feature that I really miss. (Also the ability to delete posts...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khisanth.2948 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > No problem. I'd rather be your friend. > Lol, I have around 800 old Forum Mod PMs saved. It's really a shame they didn't want to archive the old forums. You can still access the old forum posts and PMs at https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neural.1824 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Please revert the forum cookie expiration to what it was when the forum was launched. It was nice not having to log in every single time I launched my browser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 > @Khisanth.2948 said: > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > No problem. I'd rather be your friend. > > Lol, I have around 800 old Forum Mod PMs saved. It's really a shame they didn't want to archive the old forums. > > You can still access the old forum posts and PMs at https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum While true, that only lasts for another ~5 weeks. We're told that the software/server supporting the old forums is about to give up the ghost, so ANet's taking them down before the old forums take themselves down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonNinja.1602 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 The lack of ability to add images to the forums is outlandish at best, and if, as you stated your security person says they are a threat - you should send him back to get further training. Its 2017- we should have images as a part of the forums. The enrich not only the discussion but the community itself. The avatars are terrible - completely unprofessional. Functionality is good otherwise. Layout and design need help. A ton of wasted space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 > @DemonNinja.1602 said: > The lack of ability to add images to the forums is outlandish at best, and if, as you stated your security person says they are a threat - you should send him back to get further training. Its 2017- we should have images as a part of the forums. Apparently, it's not images per se. It's apparently a risk inherent to the [Vanilla Forum software](https://vanillaforums.com/en/software/ "Vanilla Forum software"). If I understand correctly (and I'm pretty sure I don't entirely get it): * Images can be hijacked to include malicious code. * It's possible to scan images using heuristics that would identify known cases (but not all possible risks). * Some forum software apparently allows for quarantining images until they are 'tested'; some does not. * Vanilla apparently doesn't come with the ability. > > According to [wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Internet_forum_software#Image_attachments "wikipedia"): > Most forums provide the option for a user to upload an image along with a message posting. This is usually accompanied by a space limit (e.g. 1MB per user) to prevent users from filling up the forum host's webspace. Some forums also allow other types of files to be uploaded. Some allow inline linking to images hosted on image hosting services. > One major usability issue is whether images can be uploaded to a forum and displayed inline in message postings easily (or at all). The presence of "image attachment uploading" does not imply that in-message display of images within the flow of message text is possible (or if possible, easy to achieve). I can't claim that I understand why ANet chose a forum software that didn't include this ability, but... there are so, so many business tradeoffs required when licensing a third party system. For example, here are some no-brainer reasons why ANet might have done it: 50% lower cost, more efficient data storage, customization that requires less micromanagement by ANet's web people (not their biggest team, and they have other priorities), and so on. tl;dr I'm no fan of the decisions that led to no image uploading, but it might be more complicated and more reasonable a choice than it appears to us. (At the same time, I wish we could hear more about the actual risks and the tradeoffs.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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