Why

[Meteor.3720]

Why do firebrand tomes have such small cooldowns?

For a mechanic that gives 5 new skills and duration dependant on how quickly you use skills (pages), the cooldowns should be much higher.

Otherwise it just encourages spamming skills with no consideration of what to use and when for maximum effect.

[Yannir.4132]

Take into consideration that the cooldown starts when the Firebrand drops the tome, not when he starts using it. Only 2 of those Tomes will actually delay getting downed, and if you are under pressure, you will go through those tomes pretty quickly. The cooldowns were longer in the betas btw, and firebrand was unplayable.

[Ragnarox.9601]

tome skills have cd's, internal cd's, casting times...

 

I am for bigger cd's but they need to change them into kits then, and I am for that, bigger cd-better effect.

[Meteor.3720]

> @"Ragnarox.9601" said:

> tome skills have cd's, internal cd's, casting times...

>

> I am for bigger cd's but they need to change them into kits then, and I am for that, bigger cd-better effect.

 

They are plenty strong enough as it is. No need to buff them further.

Just compare them to the virtues of the other guardian specialisations. Tomes are far superior in every way and only have a slightly higher cooldown.

[Ragnarox.9601]

> @"Meteor.3720" said:

> > @"Ragnarox.9601" said:

> > tome skills have cd's, internal cd's, casting times...

> >

> > I am for bigger cd's but they need to change them into kits then, and I am for that, bigger cd-better effect.

>

> They are plenty strong enough as it is. No need to buff them further.

> Just compare them to the virtues of the other guardian specialisations. Tomes are far superior in every way and only have a slightly higher cooldown.

 

Compare it then to mirage, Mirage is absolutely OP now so those tomes wont save you from quick death.

[Meteor.3720]

> @"Ragnarox.9601" said:

> > @"Meteor.3720" said:

> > > @"Ragnarox.9601" said:

> > > tome skills have cd's, internal cd's, casting times...

> > >

> > > I am for bigger cd's but they need to change them into kits then, and I am for that, bigger cd-better effect.

> >

> > They are plenty strong enough as it is. No need to buff them further.

> > Just compare them to the virtues of the other guardian specialisations. Tomes are far superior in every way and only have a slightly higher cooldown.

>

> Compare it then to mirage, Mirage is absolutely OP now so those tomes wont save you from quick death.

 

Those tomes absolutely can and should save you from a Mirage - if used properly.

And even if they couldn't - that's an argument to nerf Mirage, not buff FB.

We want less powercreep, not more.

[LetoII.3782]

> @"Ragnarox.9601" said:

> tome skills have cd's, internal cd's, casting times...

>

> I am for bigger cd's but they need to change them into kits then, and I am for that, bigger cd-better effect.

 

Agreed, let me stow and use on demand but use less.

It's too much of a buff to zergs but near useless solo as is, just like scourge.

[AlekseyGrando.8691]

Firebrand has no mobility, is the slowest class in the game and when using the tomes loses access to the weapons, then my friend, you can spam as much as you want, nothing will save you. We need mobility skills, just one single mobility skill :(

[Meteor.3720]

> @"AlekseyGrando.8691" said:

> Firebrand has no mobility, is the slowest class in the game and when using the tomes loses access to the weapons, then my friend, you can spam as much as you want, nothing will save you. We need mobility skills, just one single mobility skill :(

 

sword 2, greatsword leap, good swiftness on staff, judge's intervention, merciful intervention...

Try core necro or reaper if you want to truly feel lack of mobility.

 

Also the tomes have greater sustain than weapon skills, so losing access to weapons is hardly a downside.

[Ragnarox.9601]

> @"Meteor.3720" said:

> > @"AlekseyGrando.8691" said:

> > Firebrand has no mobility, is the slowest class in the game and when using the tomes loses access to the weapons, then my friend, you can spam as much as you want, nothing will save you. We need mobility skills, just one single mobility skill :(

>

> sword 2, greatsword leap, good swiftness on staff, judge's intervention, merciful intervention...

> Try core necro or reaper if you want to truly feel lack of mobility.

>

> Also the tomes have greater sustain than weapon skills, so losing access to weapons is hardly a downside.

 

sword need target, gs leap 600 range affected by ground height, swiftness on staff?you serious? you need to stand for 5 sec to get 25sec of swiftness. JI need target, MI need ally target.....so whats the point? there is 1% mobility only on staff symbol if you look of all skills cause they need target to even teleport.

 

F1 sustain? you mean you use 8 skills on 25ish sec cd? thats not sustain, dude, no comment.

[Meteor.3720]

> @"Ragnarox.9601" said:

> > @"Meteor.3720" said:

> > > @"AlekseyGrando.8691" said:

> > > Firebrand has no mobility, is the slowest class in the game and when using the tomes loses access to the weapons, then my friend, you can spam as much as you want, nothing will save you. We need mobility skills, just one single mobility skill :(

> >

> > sword 2, greatsword leap, good swiftness on staff, judge's intervention, merciful intervention...

> > Try core necro or reaper if you want to truly feel lack of mobility.

> >

> > Also the tomes have greater sustain than weapon skills, so losing access to weapons is hardly a downside.

>

> sword need target, gs leap 600 range affected by ground height, swiftness on staff?you serious? you need to stand for 5 sec to get 25sec of swiftness. JI need target, MI need ally target.....so whats the point? there is 1% mobility only on staff symbol if you look of all skills cause they need target to even teleport.

>

> F1 sustain? you mean you use 8 skills on 25ish sec cd? thats not sustain, dude, no comment.

 

You said "nothing will save you" when you use tomes.

Sorry I assumed I was talking to someone who used common sense and meant f2 and f3 tomes, those being the ones that sustain/ save you. F1 can still have some pressure with the pull and condi cover anyway.

 

You can easily also get 2 pulses of swiftness from the symbol just from running through it if placed properly anyway, and stand still for 1 sec for perma swiftness.

 

As for skills needing targets ... in pvp and wvw you are either chasing and will have the target, or running in a blob and won't really need targets. MI can still be cast on the blob anyway, and your allies can call targets for you to teleport to if they are ahead of you.

In Pve, you can target on foes out of range and still get the teleport and then you won't hit them to get in combat. The whole "I need a target to be mobile" is a pretty useless argument - technically true, but in reality meaningless.

[AlekseyGrando.8691]

Target in these skils is a problem when you are in a bad situation, like Xv1 it is almost impossible to escape, and not when you are attacking someone. And yes my friend in bad situations you can try spam all the tome skills nothing will save you that's a fact. Firebrand cant do damage and use defensive tomes at the same time, you lost access to your weapons. Thats is simple, no mobility and no damage, easy target. I always attack the firebrand first when I see one, because I know he can not get away, everybody does it kkk. To fix the tome spam, first Anet need nerf the condi spam, the highest mobility and range of some classes, the perma evade, the perma stealth etc...

[MithranArkanere.8957]

They would work better if they worked like kits. The virtue effect would have a separate cooldown to equipping the tome like when a weapon swap sigil triggers with a kit with its own cooldown , and the skills inside would have longer cooldowns to compensate.

 

And instead having a fixed set of pages when the tome is equipped, each tome skill would have an 'ammo', like initiative. Swap to that tome, the number of pages changes to the ammo of that tome. And ammo would only recharge while the tome is not equipped.

 

That should do it.

[AlekseyGrando.8691]

> @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> They would work better if they worked like kits. The virtue effect would have a separate cooldown to equipping the tome like when a weapon swap sigil triggers with a kit with its own cooldown , and the skills inside would have longer cooldowns to compensate.

>

> And instead having a fixed set of pages when the tome is equipped, each tome skill would have an 'ammo', like initiative. Swap to that tome, the number of pages changes to the ammo of that tome. And ammo would only recharge while the tome is not equipped.

>

> That should do it.

 

agree

[Meteor.3720]

> @"AlekseyGrando.8691" said:

> Target in these skils is a problem when you are in a bad situation, like Xv1 it is almost impossible to escape, and not when you are attacking someone. And yes my friend in bad situations you can try spam all the tome skills nothing will save you that's a fact. Firebrand cant do damage and use defensive tomes at the same time, you lost access to your weapons. Thats is simple, no mobility and no damage, easy target. I always attack the firebrand first when I see one, because I know he can not get away, everybody does it kkk. To fix the tome spam, first Anet need nerf the condi spam, the highest mobility and range of some classes, the perma evade, the perma stealth etc...

 

just no

[Ragnarox.9601]

> @"Meteor.3720" said:

> > @"Ragnarox.9601" said:

> > > @"Meteor.3720" said:

> > > > @"AlekseyGrando.8691" said:

> > > > Firebrand has no mobility, is the slowest class in the game and when using the tomes loses access to the weapons, then my friend, you can spam as much as you want, nothing will save you. We need mobility skills, just one single mobility skill :(

> > >

> > > sword 2, greatsword leap, good swiftness on staff, judge's intervention, merciful intervention...

> > > Try core necro or reaper if you want to truly feel lack of mobility.

> > >

> > > Also the tomes have greater sustain than weapon skills, so losing access to weapons is hardly a downside.

> >

> > sword need target, gs leap 600 range affected by ground height, swiftness on staff?you serious? you need to stand for 5 sec to get 25sec of swiftness. JI need target, MI need ally target.....so whats the point? there is 1% mobility only on staff symbol if you look of all skills cause they need target to even teleport.

> >

> > F1 sustain? you mean you use 8 skills on 25ish sec cd? thats not sustain, dude, no comment.

>

> You said "nothing will save you" when you use tomes.

> Sorry I assumed I was talking to someone who used common sense and meant f2 and f3 tomes, those being the ones that sustain/ save you. F1 can still have some pressure with the pull and condi cover anyway.

>

> You can easily also get 2 pulses of swiftness from the symbol just from running through it if placed properly anyway, and stand still for 1 sec for perma swiftness.

>

> As for skills needing targets ... in pvp and wvw you are either chasing and will have the target, or running in a blob and won't really need targets. MI can still be cast on the blob anyway, and your allies can call targets for you to teleport to if they are ahead of you.

> In Pve, you can target on foes out of range and still get the teleport and then you won't hit them to get in combat. The whole "I need a target to be mobile" is a pretty useless argument - technically true, but in reality meaningless.

 

do you know what sustain mans? F3 and especially F2 does not have a sustain.

Target for teleport meaningless?

1 sec standing for perma swiftness...you know what perma means right?

ah....

[Felipe.1807]

> @"Meteor.3720" said:

> > @"Ragnarox.9601" said:

> > > @"Meteor.3720" said:

> > > > @"AlekseyGrando.8691" said:

> > > > Firebrand has no mobility, is the slowest class in the game and when using the tomes loses access to the weapons, then my friend, you can spam as much as you want, nothing will save you. We need mobility skills, just one single mobility skill :(

> > >

> > > sword 2, greatsword leap, good swiftness on staff, judge's intervention, merciful intervention...

> > > Try core necro or reaper if you want to truly feel lack of mobility.

> > >

> > > Also the tomes have greater sustain than weapon skills, so losing access to weapons is hardly a downside.

> >

> > sword need target, gs leap 600 range affected by ground height, swiftness on staff?you serious? you need to stand for 5 sec to get 25sec of swiftness. JI need target, MI need ally target.....so whats the point? there is 1% mobility only on staff symbol if you look of all skills cause they need target to even teleport.

> >

> > F1 sustain? you mean you use 8 skills on 25ish sec cd? thats not sustain, dude, no comment.

>

> You said "nothing will save you" when you use tomes.

> Sorry I assumed I was talking to someone who used common sense and meant f2 and f3 tomes, those being the ones that sustain/ save you. F1 can still have some pressure with the pull and condi cover anyway.

>

> You can easily also get 2 pulses of swiftness from the symbol just from running through it if placed properly anyway, and stand still for 1 sec for perma swiftness.

>

> As for skills needing targets ... in pvp and wvw you are either chasing and will have the target, or running in a blob and won't really need targets. MI can still be cast on the blob anyway, and your allies can call targets for you to teleport to if they are ahead of you.

> In Pve, you can target on foes out of range and still get the teleport and then you won't hit them to get in combat. The whole "I need a target to be mobile" is a pretty useless argument - technically true, but in reality meaningless.

 

Not sure what kind of situation we talking here...Firebrand was sold as a support spec, and does that, it shouldnt have mobility or evade frames or what other specs have, DH should be the one to get this kind of stuff...also from my personal experience, my full berzerker warrior have much better sustain than my minstrell FB lol, the only diference is that i can actually punish players really hard with Spellbreaker, if you are in a bad situation, tomes wont save your life, might delay your death a little, but wont save you, without decent investiment on heal power and heals on dodge and block from Honor FB fall pretty fast...and guardian is probably the least mobile profession on game, probably second only to necro, sword and Meditations are decent for combat mobility, but wont help you to disengage from combat, which is the big diference between guardian and all the other top roaming professions.

If you increase the CD on the tomes, FB becomes useless and unplayable...if you tell me that you are playing FB and just spamming F1 to 3 and doing good with it, I wonder what kind of content you playing and what level of competition is it. PvE anything works...if you do this kind of stuff on high rated sPvP game you will be just as good as a bot...and WvW i can see doing Karma train with this kind of gameplay, but you will be farmed by any competent group.

[yLoon.5289]

 

> Not sure what kind of situation we talking here...Firebrand was sold as a support spec, and does that, it shouldnt have mobility or evade frames or what other specs have, DH should be the one to get this kind of stuff...also from my personal experience, my full berzerker warrior have much better sustain than my minstrell FB lol, the only diference is that i can actually punish players really hard with Spellbreaker, if you are in a bad situation, tomes wont save your life, might delay your death a little, but wont save you, without decent investiment on heal power and heals on dodge and block from Honor FB fall pretty fast...and guardian is probably the least mobile profession on game, probably second only to necro, sword and Meditations are decent for combat mobility, but wont help you to disengage from combat, which is the big diference between guardian and all the other top roaming professions.

> If you increase the CD on the tomes, FB becomes useless and unplayable...if you tell me that you are playing FB and just spamming F1 to 3 and doing good with it, I wonder what kind of content you playing and what level of competition is it. PvE anything works...if you do this kind of stuff on high rated sPvP game you will be just as good as a bot...and WvW i can see doing Karma train with this kind of gameplay, but you will be farmed by any competent group.

 

Nail Meteor's ball on the right spot xD

Basically, he just wants an easy Kill in WvW without resistance from the already slow tortoise Guard, xD

 

[Meteor.3720]

> @"yLoon.5289" said:

>

> > Not sure what kind of situation we talking here...Firebrand was sold as a support spec, and does that, it shouldnt have mobility or evade frames or what other specs have, DH should be the one to get this kind of stuff...also from my personal experience, my full berzerker warrior have much better sustain than my minstrell FB lol, the only diference is that i can actually punish players really hard with Spellbreaker, if you are in a bad situation, tomes wont save your life, might delay your death a little, but wont save you, without decent investiment on heal power and heals on dodge and block from Honor FB fall pretty fast...and guardian is probably the least mobile profession on game, probably second only to necro, sword and Meditations are decent for combat mobility, but wont help you to disengage from combat, which is the big diference between guardian and all the other top roaming professions.

> > If you increase the CD on the tomes, FB becomes useless and unplayable...if you tell me that you are playing FB and just spamming F1 to 3 and doing good with it, I wonder what kind of content you playing and what level of competition is it. PvE anything works...if you do this kind of stuff on high rated sPvP game you will be just as good as a bot...and WvW i can see doing Karma train with this kind of gameplay, but you will be farmed by any competent group.

>

> Nail Meteor's ball on the right spot xD

> Basically, he just wants an easy Kill in WvW without resistance from the already slow tortoise Guard, xD

>

 

When you try to talk about profession balance from an objective pvp viewpoint and wvw'ers try to join in ... facepalm

 

Just compare FB with any other support spec - FB outshines them easily. Simply no comparison. They overtune virtues compared to every other guardian spec an insane amount.

 

It's not about easy kill - it's about balance.

[Snowjob.7245]

> @"Meteor.3720" said:

> > @"yLoon.5289" said:

> >

> > > Not sure what kind of situation we talking here...Firebrand was sold as a support spec, and does that, it shouldnt have mobility or evade frames or what other specs have, DH should be the one to get this kind of stuff...also from my personal experience, my full berzerker warrior have much better sustain than my minstrell FB lol, the only diference is that i can actually punish players really hard with Spellbreaker, if you are in a bad situation, tomes wont save your life, might delay your death a little, but wont save you, without decent investiment on heal power and heals on dodge and block from Honor FB fall pretty fast...and guardian is probably the least mobile profession on game, probably second only to necro, sword and Meditations are decent for combat mobility, but wont help you to disengage from combat, which is the big diference between guardian and all the other top roaming professions.

> > > If you increase the CD on the tomes, FB becomes useless and unplayable...if you tell me that you are playing FB and just spamming F1 to 3 and doing good with it, I wonder what kind of content you playing and what level of competition is it. PvE anything works...if you do this kind of stuff on high rated sPvP game you will be just as good as a bot...and WvW i can see doing Karma train with this kind of gameplay, but you will be farmed by any competent group.

> >

> > Nail Meteor's ball on the right spot xD

> > Basically, he just wants an easy Kill in WvW without resistance from the already slow tortoise Guard, xD

> >

>

> When you try to talk about profession balance from an objective pvp viewpoint and wvw'ers try to join in ... facepalm

>

> Just compare FB with any other support spec - FB outshines them easily. Simply no comparison. They overtune virtues compared to every other guardian spec an insane amount.

>

> It's not about easy kill - it's about balance.

 

Those med kit buffs tho

 

Firebrand in deep doodoo if a support scrapper becomes a thing

[Arzamar.7150]

So these kinds of titles are allowed? What hell. It's like clickbaiting a forum post!?

[Meteor.3720]

> @"Snowjob.7245" said:

> > @"Meteor.3720" said:

> > > @"yLoon.5289" said:

> > >

> > > > Not sure what kind of situation we talking here...Firebrand was sold as a support spec, and does that, it shouldnt have mobility or evade frames or what other specs have, DH should be the one to get this kind of stuff...also from my personal experience, my full berzerker warrior have much better sustain than my minstrell FB lol, the only diference is that i can actually punish players really hard with Spellbreaker, if you are in a bad situation, tomes wont save your life, might delay your death a little, but wont save you, without decent investiment on heal power and heals on dodge and block from Honor FB fall pretty fast...and guardian is probably the least mobile profession on game, probably second only to necro, sword and Meditations are decent for combat mobility, but wont help you to disengage from combat, which is the big diference between guardian and all the other top roaming professions.

> > > > If you increase the CD on the tomes, FB becomes useless and unplayable...if you tell me that you are playing FB and just spamming F1 to 3 and doing good with it, I wonder what kind of content you playing and what level of competition is it. PvE anything works...if you do this kind of stuff on high rated sPvP game you will be just as good as a bot...and WvW i can see doing Karma train with this kind of gameplay, but you will be farmed by any competent group.

> > >

> > > Nail Meteor's ball on the right spot xD

> > > Basically, he just wants an easy Kill in WvW without resistance from the already slow tortoise Guard, xD

> > >

> >

> > When you try to talk about profession balance from an objective pvp viewpoint and wvw'ers try to join in ... facepalm

> >

> > Just compare FB with any other support spec - FB outshines them easily. Simply no comparison. They overtune virtues compared to every other guardian spec an insane amount.

> >

> > It's not about easy kill - it's about balance.

>

> Those med kit buffs tho

>

> Firebrand in deep doodoo if a support scrapper becomes a thing

 

I honestly hope an alternative support spec becomes viable. With nerfs to FB and buffs to tempest we'd be getting there.

[yLoon.5289]

> When you try to talk about profession balance from an objective pvp viewpoint and wvw'ers try to join in ... facepalm

>

> Just compare FB with any other support spec - FB outshines them easily. Simply no comparison. They overtune virtues compared to every other guardian spec an insane amount.

>

> It's not about easy kill - it's about balance.

 

This is what I call "balance" to suit your selfish taste.

So now Guard got no mobility that is a fact, stop arguing on this.

So now you want Guard to do less skill "spam", so what is the outcome? A walking punching bag that ONLY can hit you back with weapon skill while u can easily disengage, OOC and restart the fight? Your so-called "balance"? Hmm very good "idea"~~

Speaking of skill spamming, did you complain this to Thief forum as well lol ?

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Snowjob.7245" said:

> > @"Meteor.3720" said:

> > > @"yLoon.5289" said:

> > >

> > > > Not sure what kind of situation we talking here...Firebrand was sold as a support spec, and does that, it shouldnt have mobility or evade frames or what other specs have, DH should be the one to get this kind of stuff...also from my personal experience, my full berzerker warrior have much better sustain than my minstrell FB lol, the only diference is that i can actually punish players really hard with Spellbreaker, if you are in a bad situation, tomes wont save your life, might delay your death a little, but wont save you, without decent investiment on heal power and heals on dodge and block from Honor FB fall pretty fast...and guardian is probably the least mobile profession on game, probably second only to necro, sword and Meditations are decent for combat mobility, but wont help you to disengage from combat, which is the big diference between guardian and all the other top roaming professions.

> > > > If you increase the CD on the tomes, FB becomes useless and unplayable...if you tell me that you are playing FB and just spamming F1 to 3 and doing good with it, I wonder what kind of content you playing and what level of competition is it. PvE anything works...if you do this kind of stuff on high rated sPvP game you will be just as good as a bot...and WvW i can see doing Karma train with this kind of gameplay, but you will be farmed by any competent group.

> > >

> > > Nail Meteor's ball on the right spot xD

> > > Basically, he just wants an easy Kill in WvW without resistance from the already slow tortoise Guard, xD

> > >

> >

> > When you try to talk about profession balance from an objective pvp viewpoint and wvw'ers try to join in ... facepalm

> >

> > Just compare FB with any other support spec - FB outshines them easily. Simply no comparison. They overtune virtues compared to every other guardian spec an insane amount.

> >

> > It's not about easy kill - it's about balance.

>

> Those med kit buffs tho

>

> Firebrand in deep doodoo if a support scrapper becomes a thing

 

I don't think anyone will die if you throw bandages at them. :p