Aktium.9506 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 I remember torment uptime being pretty shit when it was just BiP and Scepter 3 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicious.5683 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 There is nothing OP about epidemic, your complaining are just "it's too easy" well, that's not a good reason to nerf a skill that keeps an entire class in this part of the game. Eles are as easy to play as necros and have the highest DPS in game, so that's another reason to no take your proposal into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted May 11, 2018 Author Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"vicious.5683" said: > There is nothing OP about epidemic, your complaining are just "it's too easy" well, that's not a good reason to nerf a skill that keeps an entire class in this part of the game. > Eles are as easy to play as necros and have the highest DPS in game, so that's another reason to no take your proposal into account. yes not OP. just stacking scourges to win with literally no effort lol. in any other quality MMO such a skill would be hotfixed within 3 days. Just Anet lets their flagship encounters get trivialized by a single skill for this many months. PS: ele is much harder to play optimal than scourge. like 10 times as hard in terms of effort and risk. Ele might just seem easy to you because you have months of practice. Someone looking to learn a new class will have much easier time with scourge than ele. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam.4092 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > @"vicious.5683" said: > > There is nothing OP about epidemic, your complaining are just "it's too easy" well, that's not a good reason to nerf a skill that keeps an entire class in this part of the game. > > Eles are as easy to play as necros and have the highest DPS in game, so that's another reason to no take your proposal into account. > > yes not OP. just stacking scourges to win with literally no effort lol. > > in any other quality MMO such a skill would be hotfixed within 3 days. Just Anet lets their flagship encounters get trivialized by a single skill for this many months. > > PS: ele is much harder to play optimal than scourge. like 10 times as hard in terms of effort and risk. Ele might just seem easy to you because you have months of practice. Someone looking to learn a new class will have much easier time with scourge than ele. GW2 balance is bad, just deal with it, or play another game bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alez.2137 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > @"vicious.5683" said: > > There is nothing OP about epidemic, your complaining are just "it's too easy" well, that's not a good reason to nerf a skill that keeps an entire class in this part of the game. > > Eles are as easy to play as necros and have the highest DPS in game, so that's another reason to no take your proposal into account. > > yes not OP. just stacking scourges to win with literally no effort lol. > > in any other quality MMO such a skill would be hotfixed within 3 days. Just Anet lets their flagship encounters get trivialized by a single skill for this many months. > > PS: ele is much harder to play optimal than scourge. like 10 times as hard in terms of effort and risk. Ele might just seem easy to you because you have months of practice. Someone looking to learn a new class will have much easier time with scourge than ele. What do you try to show with that video, the damage output is just crap, the ele can do 2x the damage of the top dps. ¿Do you see the "!" symbol in the condis? This mean the damage is capped so that tactic of stacking necros is not good at all. But hey, Im with you, nerf epidemic and buff direct damage so necro can compete with any other classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"alez.2137" said: > What do you try to show with that video, the damage output is just crap, the ele can do 2x the damage of the top dps. ¿Do you see the "!" symbol in the condis? This mean the damage is capped so that tactic of stacking necros is not good at all. > > But hey, Im with you, nerf epidemic and buff direct damage so necro can compete with any other classes. FYI, the "!" on conditions is just showing 100+ stacks of a condition. The cap is 1,500 stacks, which is completely impossible to accomplish in a raid squad. I don't think the cap has actually ever been hit on live servers, even at world boss events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry.5713 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Frankly, I like it and I use it with my statics as it makes easy bosses even easier (and quicker). And I understand if you do not want your easy cheese removed or if you are happy to finally be able to play your necro but really... how delusional do you have to be to think that the risk/effort/reward ratios are just fine? Epidemic has always been good in raids. People used it on Sebetha with the old minions to bounce conditions off the champions. We simply never realized how crazy it actually was before the introduction of the DPS meters. One of the cases where the golem area ended up misleading everyone. They'll do something about this once it becomes pug Meta just like they did with the first condition Berserker back when people started to stack 5-6 of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > Which do you consider to be simple and complex? Additionally, since messing up the timing of an epi result in a large dps loss (especially since if your epi target dies before the orbs reaches their new targets, no condis will be transfered) how easy does that make epi bouncing? Necro things to mess: * epi timing for bounce. Everything else pales in comparison. Ele things to mess: * Skill interruption, missing casts * Conjured weapon positioning * Conjured weapon pick up * Rotation skill sync All of these result in major dps loss for ele. Which one do you think I consider to be more complex? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > Ele things to mess: > * Skill interruption, missing casts > * Conjured weapon positioning > * Conjured weapon pick up > * Rotation skill sync > > All of these result in major dps loss for ele. Which one do you think I consider to be more complex? Skill interruption isn't unique to ele, necro can do it too. Positioning isnt unique to ele, necro can miss epi due to range limit Messing up a rotation isn't unique to ele, necro can do it too. I know you want to believe ele is some spidermonkey level of complex but you're being insincere if you honestly think that ele is the only class with downsides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > Ele things to mess: > > * Skill interruption, missing casts > > * Conjured weapon positioning > > * Conjured weapon pick up > > * Rotation skill sync > > > > All of these result in major dps loss for ele. Which one do you think I consider to be more complex? > > Skill interruption isn't unique to ele, necro can do it too. > Positioning isnt unique to ele, necro can miss epi due to range limit > Messing up a rotation isn't unique to ele, necro can do it too. > > I know you want to believe ele is some spidermonkey level of complex but you're being insincere if you honestly think that ele is the only class with downsides. Oh, it isn't the only class with downsides, of course. But I happen to have a Scourge as well. It is much easier to pull decent numbers on Scourge than on ele. And honestly you can mess the rotation, you can interrupt your skills, as long as you press epi you're doing your job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 In case noone noticed, necro got a big buff last patch with nourishing ashes. Now, with lifeforce gained with burn applying (3s cooldown), as well as the whole soulreap traitline giving you more lifeforce (gluttony) and other passives dps increase skills (strength of undeath, vial persistence, dhuumfire), scourge can spam more shade skills for higher dps. Apart from this, scourge rotation is a joke. As i said before, I main necro. I know if rotation mistakes mean huge dps difference. They dont. Rotation is easy. Ele is a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > Ele things to mess: > > > * Skill interruption, missing casts > > > * Conjured weapon positioning > > > * Conjured weapon pick up > > > * Rotation skill sync > > > > > > All of these result in major dps loss for ele. Which one do you think I consider to be more complex? > > > > Skill interruption isn't unique to ele, necro can do it too. > > Positioning isnt unique to ele, necro can miss epi due to range limit > > Messing up a rotation isn't unique to ele, necro can do it too. > > > > I know you want to believe ele is some spidermonkey level of complex but you're being insincere if you honestly think that ele is the only class with downsides. > > Oh, it isn't the only class with downsides, of course. But I happen to have a Scourge as well. It is much easier to pull decent numbers on Scourge than on ele. And honestly you can mess the rotation, you can interrupt your skills, as long as you press epi you're doing your job. Even if you're the only condi class in a squad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aktium.9506 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"vicious.5683" said: > There is nothing OP about epidemic, your complaining are just "it's too easy" well, that's not a good reason to nerf a skill that keeps an entire class in this part of the game. Class stacking in general is bad for the game. Ideally there should never be a single encounter where you want more than 2 of a certain class. All they really have to do is add a unique effect that applies to enemies for 10-15 seconds after they have been hit by an Epidemic projectile that makes them immune to additional Epidemics until it runs out. That way you could still have one Necro pinging out and one pinging in, thus retaining this manner of unique gameplay without it being abused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > Ele things to mess: > > > > * Skill interruption, missing casts > > > > * Conjured weapon positioning > > > > * Conjured weapon pick up > > > > * Rotation skill sync > > > > > > > > All of these result in major dps loss for ele. Which one do you think I consider to be more complex? > > > > > > Skill interruption isn't unique to ele, necro can do it too. > > > Positioning isnt unique to ele, necro can miss epi due to range limit > > > Messing up a rotation isn't unique to ele, necro can do it too. > > > > > > I know you want to believe ele is some spidermonkey level of complex but you're being insincere if you honestly think that ele is the only class with downsides. > > > > Oh, it isn't the only class with downsides, of course. But I happen to have a Scourge as well. It is much easier to pull decent numbers on Scourge than on ele. And honestly you can mess the rotation, you can interrupt your skills, as long as you press epi you're doing your job. > > Even if you're the only condi class in a squad? Sometimes even then. We've been taking a Scourge on Xera any time we got in the past months. For the sole purpose to epi the shards. But we were talking about epi bounce, so you can't be the only condi class by definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > In case noone noticed, necro got a big buff last patch with nourishing ashes. Now, with lifeforce gained with burn applying (3s cooldown), as well as the whole soulreap traitline giving you more lifeforce (gluttony) and other passives dps increase skills (strength of undeath, vial persistence, dhuumfire), scourge can spam more shade skills for higher dps. > Apart from this, scourge rotation is a joke. As i said before, I main necro. I know if rotation mistakes mean huge dps difference. They dont. Rotation is easy. Ele is a different story. Why take nourishing ashes over fell beacon? Also, other than engi, I don't know of any condi builds that looses as much dps as a power build when they mess up their rotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > In case noone noticed, necro got a big buff last patch with nourishing ashes. Now, with lifeforce gained with burn applying (3s cooldown), as well as the whole soulreap traitline giving you more lifeforce (gluttony) and other passives dps increase skills (strength of undeath, vial persistence, dhuumfire), scourge can spam more shade skills for higher dps. > > Apart from this, scourge rotation is a joke. As i said before, I main necro. I know if rotation mistakes mean huge dps difference. They dont. Rotation is easy. Ele is a different story. > > Why take nourishing ashes over fell beacon? Also, other than engi, I don't know of any condi builds that looses as much dps as a power build when they mess up their rotation. I was thinking of wvw. Oh man. I should get a break from that mode... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > Ele things to mess: > > > * Skill interruption, missing casts > > > * Conjured weapon positioning > > > * Conjured weapon pick up > > > * Rotation skill sync > > > > > > All of these result in major dps loss for ele. Which one do you think I consider to be more complex? > > > > Skill interruption isn't unique to ele, necro can do it too. > > Positioning isnt unique to ele, necro can miss epi due to range limit > > Messing up a rotation isn't unique to ele, necro can do it too. > > > > I know you want to believe ele is some spidermonkey level of complex but you're being insincere if you honestly think that ele is the only class with downsides. > > Oh, it isn't the only class with downsides, of course. But I happen to have a Scourge as well. It is much easier to pull decent numbers on Scourge than on ele. And honestly you can mess the rotation, you can interrupt your skills, as long as you press epi you're doing your job. I'm not debating which is easier, it's ultimately irrelevant to the discussion some class somewhere will always have the lower skill floor. That doesn't mean it needs to also have the lowest DPS. Additionally, as i've stated several times Epidemic by itself isn't OP. If it was a single necro would always benchmark higher, as is they don't. Not even close as it stands, what makes them decent is encounter design, fix that and you'll find your raids will go right back to stacking ele's just like they used to. > @"Aktium.9506" said: > Class stacking in general is bad for the game. Ideally there should never be a single encounter where you want more than 2 of a certain class. All they really have to do is add a unique effect that applies to enemies for 10-15 seconds after they have been hit by an Epidemic projectile that makes them immune to additional Epidemics until it runs out. That way you could still have one Necro pinging out and one pinging in, thus retaining this manner of unique gameplay without it being abused. That change would just remove necro from raids as a whole if they aren't given substantial dps increases. Also, it would just return us to the Ele overlord meta. You replace one top dog, the other will always supplant it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > In case noone noticed, necro got a big buff last patch with nourishing ashes. Now, with lifeforce gained with burn applying (3s cooldown), as well as the whole soulreap traitline giving you more lifeforce (gluttony) and other passives dps increase skills (strength of undeath, vial persistence, dhuumfire), scourge can spam more shade skills for higher dps. > > > Apart from this, scourge rotation is a joke. As i said before, I main necro. I know if rotation mistakes mean huge dps difference. They dont. Rotation is easy. Ele is a different story. > > > > Why take nourishing ashes over fell beacon? Also, other than engi, I don't know of any condi builds that looses as much dps as a power build when they mess up their rotation. > > I was thinking of wvw. Oh man. I should get a break from that mode... Epi is still used there? I haven't seen any1 using it since the nerf to it, even less after scourge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > > In case noone noticed, necro got a big buff last patch with nourishing ashes. Now, with lifeforce gained with burn applying (3s cooldown), as well as the whole soulreap traitline giving you more lifeforce (gluttony) and other passives dps increase skills (strength of undeath, vial persistence, dhuumfire), scourge can spam more shade skills for higher dps. > > > > Apart from this, scourge rotation is a joke. As i said before, I main necro. I know if rotation mistakes mean huge dps difference. They dont. Rotation is easy. Ele is a different story. > > > > > > Why take nourishing ashes over fell beacon? Also, other than engi, I don't know of any condi builds that looses as much dps as a power build when they mess up their rotation. > > > > I was thinking of wvw. Oh man. I should get a break from that mode... > > Epi is still used there? I haven't seen any1 using it since the nerf to it, even less after scourge Nope. Epidemic in wvw is dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grogba.6204 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 SBSBSB has among the easiest "rotations" while still doing robust dps even under pressure, time to nerf that, too, then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptAurellian.9537 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Rotation complexity is no reason for a class to have more than 5% higher dps than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted May 11, 2018 Author Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"Grogba.6204" said: > SBSBSB has among the easiest "rotations" while still doing robust dps even under pressure, time to nerf that, too, then? I had to google that acronym, i guess it stands for shortbow soulbeast. I havent seen anyone get even close to a good weaver with that build yet. Also never seeing it get used in any world record runs. So I doubt it is OP, just a noob friendly build like condi ranger pre PoF. > @"CptAurellian.9537" said: > Rotation complexity is no reason for a class to have more than 5% higher dps than others. It is, for 5% noone will play a much more complex class unless you really enjoy it or want a world record. Also we already established that scourge also has much more health and barriers they can use for virtually no dps loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephylon.4938 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > @"Grogba.6204" said: > > SBSBSB has among the easiest "rotations" while still doing robust dps even under pressure, time to nerf that, too, then? > I had to google that acronym, i guess it stands for shortbow soulbeast. I havent seen anyone get even close to a good weaver with that build yet. Also never seeing it get used in any world record runs. So I doubt it is OP, just a noob friendly build like condi ranger pre PoF. > > > @"CptAurellian.9537" said: > > Rotation complexity is no reason for a class to have more than 5% higher dps than others. > It is, for 5% noone will play a much more complex class unless you really enjoy it or want a world record. Also we already established that scourge also has much more health and barriers they can use for virtually no dps loss. > Barriers from where? F2 spamming will cost you lf, your barrier heal is part of your rotation,nd your f5 heal will cut your lf by 1/2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptAurellian.9537 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > @"CptAurellian.9537" said: > > Rotation complexity is no reason for a class to have more than 5% higher dps than others. > It is, for 5% noone will play a much more complex class unless you really enjoy it or want a world record. And that's what it should be. Play the class you enjoy, not the one that has overlord dps for no reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicious.5683 Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 > @"Malediktus.9250" said: > > @"vicious.5683" said: > > There is nothing OP about epidemic, your complaining are just "it's too easy" well, that's not a good reason to nerf a skill that keeps an entire class in this part of the game. > > Eles are as easy to play as necros and have the highest DPS in game, so that's another reason to no take your proposal into account. > > yes not OP. just stacking scourges to win with literally no effort lol. > > in any other quality MMO such a skill would be hotfixed within 3 days. Just Anet lets their flagship encounters get trivialized by a single skill for this many months. > > PS: ele is much harder to play optimal than scourge. like 10 times as hard in terms of effort and risk. Ele might just seem easy to you because you have months of practice. Someone looking to learn a new class will have much easier time with scourge than ele. that needs extreme coordination so it's ok. It's totally different for pugs, where necros are avoided like the plague (no pun intended). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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