Epidemic in raids needs to be nerfed

[TexZero.7910]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> In Snowcrow benchmarks weaver does roughly 23% more dmg than scourge (small hitbox). That seems very fair to me already considering the risk and effort comparison. On big hitboxes weaver is obviously a bit more ahead, but that is a problem with big vs small hitboxes. An issue that basically should not exist and would be another topic someone can start.

 

I cannot take this comment seriously.

 

Ele and risk ? The class has more crutches on it than Shroud could ever account for.

Also being fine with a 23% gap in damage is worse than the damage difference between a group of Scourges vs a Single Weaver....How is that remotely fine.

[Catchyfx.5768]

Yeah eles Are like "we have buttons to press ,learning rotation on ele Is like getting Oxford title".Like rest of us JUST drink coffee while our classes work alone. I havnt ever have a problém to Survive with ele, his defensive Tools Are greater then necros hpbars(we have that HP fór condimanegament).

Buff necro if Nerf epi(core one, So all Especs can benefit )

[Ok I Did It.2854]

Does it really need nerfed, ive only seen a few top elite guilds using the necro stacking, and that was for a fun gimmick, even now when some of them guilds are streaming they aren't stacking necros, it requires a lot more co-ordination than you would think or else all you would see on LFG is, VG looking for 5 scourge, SAB looking for 6 scourge, now how to EPI or get out.

 

What about the recent WR on Sloth that stacked 5 weavers, should we have weaver damage reduced by 10-20% so that mechanics cannot be skipped due to insane damage.

[nia.4725]

> @"Ok I Did It.2854" said:

> Does it really need nerfed, ive only seen a few top elite guilds using the necro stacking, and that was for a fun gimmick, even now when some of them guilds are streaming they aren't stacking necros, it requires a lot more co-ordination than you would think or else all you would see on LFG is, VG looking for 5 scourge, SAB looking for 6 scourge, now how to EPI or get out.

>

> What about the recent WR on Sloth that stacked 5 weavers, should we have weaver damage reduced by 10-20% so that mechanics cannot be skipped due to insane damage.

 

My static stacks necros regularly because epi is so broken that the boss explodes. And we don't even have good DPS, in general. We have even stacked them in Gorseval.

 

Yeah, weaver is broken too and I think it should get a nerf that equals weaver to other DPS classes. The thing is that weaver brings nothing more than DPS to the party, while other classes bring more things -CC, utility, or have more survivability. Necro has epi and barriers, a huge HP pool and survivability.

[CptAurellian.9537]

> @"Ok I Did It.2854" said:

> Does it really need nerfed, ive only seen a few top elite guilds using the necro stacking, and that was for a fun gimmick, even now when some of them guilds are streaming they aren't stacking necros, it requires a lot more co-ordination than you would think or else all you would see on LFG is, VG looking for 5 scourge, SAB looking for 6 scourge, now how to EPI or get out.

>

> What about the recent WR on Sloth that stacked 5 weavers, should we have weaver damage reduced by 10-20% so that mechanics cannot be skipped due to insane damage.

 

Well yes, a 10% nerf to weaver would be exactly the reasonable thing to do.

[Malediktus.9250]

> @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > In Snowcrow benchmarks weaver does roughly 23% more dmg than scourge (small hitbox). That seems very fair to me already considering the risk and effort comparison. On big hitboxes weaver is obviously a bit more ahead, but that is a problem with big vs small hitboxes. An issue that basically should not exist and would be another topic someone can start.

>

> I cannot take this comment seriously.

>

> Ele and risk ? The class has more crutches on it than Shroud could ever account for.

> Also being fine with a 23% gap in damage is worse than the damage difference between a group of Scourges vs a Single Weaver....How is that remotely fine.

 

Did you even compare weaver and scourge rotations? The weaver rotation is definitely significantly more complex. If rotation complexity would scale 1:1 with the dps result, weavers would have to do easily twice the dmg of a scourge. Not saying that would be healthy for the game since there already is too much DPS which makes bosses in open world, fractals, dungeons and raids trivial. It would be really healthy to nerf dmg across the board and also get rid of large hitbox advantages.

[steki.1478]

> @"Catchyfx.5768" said:

> Yeah eles Are like "we have buttons to press ,learning rotation on ele Is like getting Oxford title".Like rest of us JUST drink coffee while our classes work alone. I havnt ever have a problém to Survive with ele, his defensive Tools Are greater then necros hpbars(we have that HP fór condimanegament).

 

Tell me one defensive tool that's not a burning retreat.

[TexZero.7910]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > In Snowcrow benchmarks weaver does roughly 23% more dmg than scourge (small hitbox). That seems very fair to me already considering the risk and effort comparison. On big hitboxes weaver is obviously a bit more ahead, but that is a problem with big vs small hitboxes. An issue that basically should not exist and would be another topic someone can start.

> >

> > I cannot take this comment seriously.

> >

> > Ele and risk ? The class has more crutches on it than Shroud could ever account for.

> > Also being fine with a 23% gap in damage is worse than the damage difference between a group of Scourges vs a Single Weaver....How is that remotely fine.

>

> Did you even compare weaver and scourge rotations? The weaver rotation is definitely significantly more complex. If rotation complexity would scale 1:1 with the dps result, weavers would have to do easily twice the dmg of a scourge. Not saying that would be healthy for the game since there already is too much DPS which makes bosses in open world, fractals, dungeons and raids trivial. It would be really healthy to nerf dmg across the board and also get rid of large hitbox advantages.

 

Oh no, they have to press buttons!!!!1!

Spare me the complaints, as i said i play a fair bit of engineer which has been gutted for far less while having equally as complex rotations in previous iterations.

 

Ele deserves to be kneecapped for a change so it's not best in slot DPS especially considering they have more utility than any class can bring just due to the nature of attunement swapping + utility skills.

 

Also, im not the one advocating a 23% difference in DPS output as fine. That's absurd and you know it. There's no reason, not even mechanical complexity that can justify that.

[Malediktus.9250]

23% is justified. Scourge is much easier to play so it should be less rewarding.

[Sublimatio.6981]

anyone who says necro should be bad because it has more hp and barrier and easier rotation ignores the lack of active defense, ignores warrior has easy rotation too (and very decent dps), the same health pool and even stronger armor type (yes heavy armor gives better passive dmg reduction) while also having 2398472789 blocks, evades etc.

ele also has extra evade on staff. + nuking everything in 5 sec means offense as defense (short fight = less time to die). if you take all of that into consideration and compare with other classes, saying necro is fine as it is makes it hard to take them seriously and I can only hope anet can see that as well and act on it.

 

there's also mirage with huge amount of damage and also lots of defense (and it's active, not passive like on necro, so its even more superior).

the balance in this game is varied and classes with tons of defense get to have amazing dps, and classes with zero defense get to be terrible. it's a problem. another problem is that any class has at least one working build (meaning around 33k dps and above). - except necro, unless you stack them.

[CptAurellian.9537]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> 23% is justified. Scourge is much easier to play so it should be less rewarding.

 

It isn't. Proper balance would be within a 10% margin, ideally closer to 5%.

[Mister Asdasd.6194]

I dont like something so arenanet should nerf it for me so people who enjoy it cant do it

[Imperadordf.2687]

I don't know why people are arguing. On small hitbox every class should have a build that can break 31-32K DPS (note that I said class, not spec). Otherwise buff it. Scourge is easier to play so it is ok if it has 31K DPS on golem. Weaver is ok if it has 36-37K DPS because it has a harder rotation.

 

I'm in favor of nerfing Epi **only if** Necro gets buffed in general.

[steki.1478]

> @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > In Snowcrow benchmarks weaver does roughly 23% more dmg than scourge (small hitbox). That seems very fair to me already considering the risk and effort comparison. On big hitboxes weaver is obviously a bit more ahead, but that is a problem with big vs small hitboxes. An issue that basically should not exist and would be another topic someone can start.

> > >

> > > I cannot take this comment seriously.

> > >

> > > Ele and risk ? The class has more crutches on it than Shroud could ever account for.

> > > Also being fine with a 23% gap in damage is worse than the damage difference between a group of Scourges vs a Single Weaver....How is that remotely fine.

> >

> > Did you even compare weaver and scourge rotations? The weaver rotation is definitely significantly more complex. If rotation complexity would scale 1:1 with the dps result, weavers would have to do easily twice the dmg of a scourge. Not saying that would be healthy for the game since there already is too much DPS which makes bosses in open world, fractals, dungeons and raids trivial. It would be really healthy to nerf dmg across the board and also get rid of large hitbox advantages.

>

> Oh no, they have to press buttons!!!!1!

> Spare me the complaints, as i said i play a fair bit of engineer which has been gutted for far less while having equally as complex rotations in previous iterations.

>

> Ele deserves to be kneecapped for a change so it's not best in slot DPS especially considering they have more utility than any class can bring just due to the nature of attunement swapping + utility skills.

 

What utility?

 

Attunements give boons only if you use arcane (and if u use arcane you already have chaos chrono who provides those boons anyways).

 

Utilities are used for damage only, none of them offer any support outside of unreliable conjured CC.

 

Have any of you played dps ele or you just know how to complain? I still didnt get an answer to previous question, which just proves this.

 

Learn to bounce epi or go back to stacking necros in t4 because that's what "necro mains" are best at.

 

 

[TexZero.7910]

> @"steki.1478" said:

> > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > > In Snowcrow benchmarks weaver does roughly 23% more dmg than scourge (small hitbox). That seems very fair to me already considering the risk and effort comparison. On big hitboxes weaver is obviously a bit more ahead, but that is a problem with big vs small hitboxes. An issue that basically should not exist and would be another topic someone can start.

> > > >

> > > > I cannot take this comment seriously.

> > > >

> > > > Ele and risk ? The class has more crutches on it than Shroud could ever account for.

> > > > Also being fine with a 23% gap in damage is worse than the damage difference between a group of Scourges vs a Single Weaver....How is that remotely fine.

> > >

> > > Did you even compare weaver and scourge rotations? The weaver rotation is definitely significantly more complex. If rotation complexity would scale 1:1 with the dps result, weavers would have to do easily twice the dmg of a scourge. Not saying that would be healthy for the game since there already is too much DPS which makes bosses in open world, fractals, dungeons and raids trivial. It would be really healthy to nerf dmg across the board and also get rid of large hitbox advantages.

> >

> > Oh no, they have to press buttons!!!!1!

> > Spare me the complaints, as i said i play a fair bit of engineer which has been gutted for far less while having equally as complex rotations in previous iterations.

> >

> > Ele deserves to be kneecapped for a change so it's not best in slot DPS especially considering they have more utility than any class can bring just due to the nature of attunement swapping + utility skills.

>

> What utility?

>

> Attunements give boons only if you use arcane (and if u use arcane you already have chaos chrono who provides those boons anyways).

>

> Utilities are used for damage only, none of them offer any support outside of unreliable conjured CC.

>

> Have any of you played dps ele or you just know how to complain? I still didnt get an answer to previous question, which just proves this.

>

> Learn to bounce epi or go back to stacking necros in t4 because that's what "necro mains" are best at.

>

>

 

Have you played ele at all ?

 

Have you looked at that staff....like at all ? Ever checked water attunement ? No....i suspect not because if it aint fire or air most ele's forget what earth and water are used for - Utility.

 

Additionally, nice attempt at the ad-hominem there, but i'm not a necro main. Nice to see your ele bias kicking in though, perhaps if you would read you'd see i play engineer.

[Imperadordf.2687]

> @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > @"steki.1478" said:

> > > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > > > In Snowcrow benchmarks weaver does roughly 23% more dmg than scourge (small hitbox). That seems very fair to me already considering the risk and effort comparison. On big hitboxes weaver is obviously a bit more ahead, but that is a problem with big vs small hitboxes. An issue that basically should not exist and would be another topic someone can start.

> > > > >

> > > > > I cannot take this comment seriously.

> > > > >

> > > > > Ele and risk ? The class has more crutches on it than Shroud could ever account for.

> > > > > Also being fine with a 23% gap in damage is worse than the damage difference between a group of Scourges vs a Single Weaver....How is that remotely fine.

> > > >

> > > > Did you even compare weaver and scourge rotations? The weaver rotation is definitely significantly more complex. If rotation complexity would scale 1:1 with the dps result, weavers would have to do easily twice the dmg of a scourge. Not saying that would be healthy for the game since there already is too much DPS which makes bosses in open world, fractals, dungeons and raids trivial. It would be really healthy to nerf dmg across the board and also get rid of large hitbox advantages.

> > >

> > > Oh no, they have to press buttons!!!!1!

> > > Spare me the complaints, as i said i play a fair bit of engineer which has been gutted for far less while having equally as complex rotations in previous iterations.

> > >

> > > Ele deserves to be kneecapped for a change so it's not best in slot DPS especially considering they have more utility than any class can bring just due to the nature of attunement swapping + utility skills.

> >

> > What utility?

> >

> > Attunements give boons only if you use arcane (and if u use arcane you already have chaos chrono who provides those boons anyways).

> >

> > Utilities are used for damage only, none of them offer any support outside of unreliable conjured CC.

> >

> > Have any of you played dps ele or you just know how to complain? I still didnt get an answer to previous question, which just proves this.

> >

> > Learn to bounce epi or go back to stacking necros in t4 because that's what "necro mains" are best at.

> >

> >

>

> Have you played ele at all ?

>

> Have you looked at that staff....like at all ? Ever checked water attunement ? No....i suspect not because if it aint fire or air most ele's forget what earth and water are used for - Utility.

>

> Additionally, nice attempt at the ad-hominem there, but i'm not a necro main. Nice to see your ele bias kicking in though, perhaps if you would read you'd see i play engineer.

 

Are you serious? Lol.

Water doesn't give buffs other than Regen. DPS Eles don't ever swap to water.

 

Earth isn't used for utility only. For DPS Eles Earth is a part of the damage rotation.

 

I still don't get what do you mean by "utility" after a dozen of posts you posted here.

[steki.1478]

> @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > @"steki.1478" said:

> > > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > > > In Snowcrow benchmarks weaver does roughly 23% more dmg than scourge (small hitbox). That seems very fair to me already considering the risk and effort comparison. On big hitboxes weaver is obviously a bit more ahead, but that is a problem with big vs small hitboxes. An issue that basically should not exist and would be another topic someone can start.

> > > > >

> > > > > I cannot take this comment seriously.

> > > > >

> > > > > Ele and risk ? The class has more crutches on it than Shroud could ever account for.

> > > > > Also being fine with a 23% gap in damage is worse than the damage difference between a group of Scourges vs a Single Weaver....How is that remotely fine.

> > > >

> > > > Did you even compare weaver and scourge rotations? The weaver rotation is definitely significantly more complex. If rotation complexity would scale 1:1 with the dps result, weavers would have to do easily twice the dmg of a scourge. Not saying that would be healthy for the game since there already is too much DPS which makes bosses in open world, fractals, dungeons and raids trivial. It would be really healthy to nerf dmg across the board and also get rid of large hitbox advantages.

> > >

> > > Oh no, they have to press buttons!!!!1!

> > > Spare me the complaints, as i said i play a fair bit of engineer which has been gutted for far less while having equally as complex rotations in previous iterations.

> > >

> > > Ele deserves to be kneecapped for a change so it's not best in slot DPS especially considering they have more utility than any class can bring just due to the nature of attunement swapping + utility skills.

> >

> > What utility?

> >

> > Attunements give boons only if you use arcane (and if u use arcane you already have chaos chrono who provides those boons anyways).

> >

> > Utilities are used for damage only, none of them offer any support outside of unreliable conjured CC.

> >

> > Have any of you played dps ele or you just know how to complain? I still didnt get an answer to previous question, which just proves this.

> >

> > Learn to bounce epi or go back to stacking necros in t4 because that's what "necro mains" are best at.

> >

> >

>

> Have you played ele at all ?

>

> Have you looked at that staff....like at all ? Ever checked water attunement ? No....i suspect not because if it aint fire or air most ele's forget what earth and water are used for - Utility.

>

> Additionally, nice attempt at the ad-hominem there, but i'm not a necro main. Nice to see your ele bias kicking in though, perhaps if you would read you'd see i play engineer.

 

Water is barely even used. And for it to actually be useful you waste 7-8 seconds for something that other class can do with one click. Earth brings no utility whatsoever.

 

And no, I'm not reading all comments since most of them are empty complains about class(ES) they dont even play. SC/qT benchmarks arent there for balance purposes. You can clearly see how players perform with weavers in actual raid and most of the time it's horrible.

 

I played condi engi and it's probably the most fun build I played in pve, but since it's core class and already has meta build with holo, there's no reason in buffing if when they can just make condi focused elite spec. Other than dps-complexity issue that condi engi has, the class is perfectly fine for raids so idk why you are even bothering with this thread.

[Agrippa Oculus.3726]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> 23% is justified. Scourge is much easier to play so it should be less rewarding.

 

I always wonder how these ppl react if ANet would flip the coin tomorrow, giving the Necro _the_ highest dps on golem with 23% difference compared to Ele, you just need "a very complex rotation" and its health bar lowered a bit ... I would not mind at all if they do that, but I bet all these Ele mains will be the very first to complain about how OP Necros are all of the sudden, and how quickly they need to be nerfed. I know: all assumptions, but there is only one way to find out ... Please ANet ... Please! It's about time the tables are turned!

[Malediktus.9250]

> @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > @"steki.1478" said:

> > > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > > > In Snowcrow benchmarks weaver does roughly 23% more dmg than scourge (small hitbox). That seems very fair to me already considering the risk and effort comparison. On big hitboxes weaver is obviously a bit more ahead, but that is a problem with big vs small hitboxes. An issue that basically should not exist and would be another topic someone can start.

> > > > >

> > > > > I cannot take this comment seriously.

> > > > >

> > > > > Ele and risk ? The class has more crutches on it than Shroud could ever account for.

> > > > > Also being fine with a 23% gap in damage is worse than the damage difference between a group of Scourges vs a Single Weaver....How is that remotely fine.

> > > >

> > > > Did you even compare weaver and scourge rotations? The weaver rotation is definitely significantly more complex. If rotation complexity would scale 1:1 with the dps result, weavers would have to do easily twice the dmg of a scourge. Not saying that would be healthy for the game since there already is too much DPS which makes bosses in open world, fractals, dungeons and raids trivial. It would be really healthy to nerf dmg across the board and also get rid of large hitbox advantages.

> > >

> > > Oh no, they have to press buttons!!!!1!

> > > Spare me the complaints, as i said i play a fair bit of engineer which has been gutted for far less while having equally as complex rotations in previous iterations.

> > >

> > > Ele deserves to be kneecapped for a change so it's not best in slot DPS especially considering they have more utility than any class can bring just due to the nature of attunement swapping + utility skills.

> >

> > What utility?

> >

> > Attunements give boons only if you use arcane (and if u use arcane you already have chaos chrono who provides those boons anyways).

> >

> > Utilities are used for damage only, none of them offer any support outside of unreliable conjured CC.

> >

> > Have any of you played dps ele or you just know how to complain? I still didnt get an answer to previous question, which just proves this.

> >

> > Learn to bounce epi or go back to stacking necros in t4 because that's what "necro mains" are best at.

> >

> >

>

> Have you played ele at all ?

>

> Have you looked at that staff....like at all ? Ever checked water attunement ? No....i suspect not because if it aint fire or air most ele's forget what earth and water are used for - Utility.

>

> Additionally, nice attempt at the ad-hominem there, but i'm not a necro main. Nice to see your ele bias kicking in though, perhaps if you would read you'd see i play engineer.

Switching attunements to something that isnt part of the meta rotation is huge dps loss and dps can drop below scourge. While scourge has highest base health pool of the game and can just use a F skill with virtually no dps loss to make a barrier

[Sublimatio.6981]

> @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > 23% is justified. Scourge is much easier to play so it should be less rewarding.

>

> I always wonder how these ppl react if ANet would flip the coin tomorrow, giving the Necro _the_ highest dps on golem with 23% difference compared to Ele, you just need "a very complex rotation" and its health bar lowered a bit ... I would not mind at all if they do that, but I bet all these Ele mains will be the very first to complain about how OP Necros are all of the sudden, and how quickly they need to be nerfed. I know: all assumptions, but there is only one way to find out ... Please ANet ... Please! It's about time the tables are turned!

 

lmao i just imagined that and you are so right :)

[Smiledyx.1678]

raids should be nerfed as well

[Talindra.4958]

> @"Smiledyx.1678" said:

> raids should be nerfed as well

 

Lol with all amazing damage from many prof since pof .. I'm finding that we are getting spoilt a bit. ..

[TexZero.7910]

> @"steki.1478" said:

> Water is barely even used. And for it to actually be useful you waste 7-8 seconds for something that other class can do with one click. Earth brings no utility whatsoever.

>

> And no, I'm not reading all comments since most of them are empty complains about class(ES) they dont even play. SC/qT benchmarks arent there for balance purposes. You can clearly see how players perform with weavers in actual raid and most of the time it's horrible.

>

> I played condi engi and it's probably the most fun build I played in pve, but since it's core class and already has meta build with holo, there's no reason in buffing if when they can just make condi focused elite spec. Other than dps-complexity issue that condi engi has, the class is perfectly fine for raids so idk why you are even bothering with this thread.

 

Spoken like someone who has a convenient excuse for being blatantly over-tured. If i don't use it, it doesn't exist isn't even remotely logical. You have it with you at all times just by virtue of picking your class which is the exact same reason according to many people Necro should do less.

 

I'm bothering with this thread, because like any sane person would there's 0 justification for nerfing Necro other that people don't like it being more user friendly than other dps spec, when one could quite easily argue those other dps specs are more user friendly and have more crutches built into their class than Necro does.

[Agrippa Oculus.3726]

Aren't words like: **difficult** (rotations), **easy** (gameplay), **hard** (whatever), all very subjective terms???

 

Some ppl find it hard to press a lot of different buttons in a repetitive order, some ppl find it difficult to time dodges, and others find it difficult to perfectly adept to its surroundings: say knowing when adds come exactly in 900 range ... (u see what I did there).

It's all very subjective: ask a good piano-player and they laugh at ALL Weavers how face-rolling easy it is to get SO much dps.

[steki.1478]

> @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > @"steki.1478" said:

> > Water is barely even used. And for it to actually be useful you waste 7-8 seconds for something that other class can do with one click. Earth brings no utility whatsoever.

> >

> > And no, I'm not reading all comments since most of them are empty complains about class(ES) they dont even play. SC/qT benchmarks arent there for balance purposes. You can clearly see how players perform with weavers in actual raid and most of the time it's horrible.

> >

> > I played condi engi and it's probably the most fun build I played in pve, but since it's core class and already has meta build with holo, there's no reason in buffing if when they can just make condi focused elite spec. Other than dps-complexity issue that condi engi has, the class is perfectly fine for raids so idk why you are even bothering with this thread.

>

> Spoken like someone who has a convenient excuse for being blatantly over-tured. If i don't use it, it doesn't exist isn't even remotely logical. You have it with you at all times just by virtue of picking your class which is the exact same reason according to many people Necro should do less.

>

> I'm bothering with this thread, because like any sane person would there's 0 justification for nerfing Necro other that people don't like it being more user friendly than other dps spec, when one could quite easily argue those other dps specs are more user friendly and have more crutches built into their class than Necro does.

 

Again, in order to be useful with water attunement on weaver, you need to swap to water twice, cast [geyser](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Geyser) and swap back to fire, which means 8 seconds of not doing any damage at all. Meanwhile [sand cascade](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Cascade) has no cast time, lower cooldown, and you always have access to it. 8 seconds of not doing damage as weaver is huge dps loss, and at that point you're probably doing same dps as scourge. The thing is, you never swap to water so you always have higher damage, but scourge can always use its barrier. Same goes with cc, which is why no weaver bothers with it.

 

> @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> Aren't words like: **difficult** (rotations), **easy** (gameplay), **hard** (whatever), all very subjective terms???

>

> Some ppl find it hard to press a lot of different buttons in a repetitive order, some ppl find it difficult to time dodges, and others find it difficult to perfectly adept to its surroundings: say knowing when adds come exactly in 900 range ... (u see what I did there).

> It's all very subjective: ask a good piano-player and they laugh at ALL Weavers how face-rolling easy it is to get SO much dps.

 

How many times have you heard someone say to a new player "play weaver/chrono, it's the strongest dps/support for raids"? Instead you have people telling you "use staff dd/3xsb/mirage/scourge" because the classes are braindead and players get carried by those builds by simply spamming several buttons off cooldown without even weapon swapping.

 

How many times have you seen a speedclear with 7 weavers, 2 chrono and 1 warrior? Now check [this](

) or [this](

). No healers since scourges sustain eachother. No need for every single buff in game since epidemic scales only with condi damage. Pure button spamming off cooldown since your main damage is epidemic anyways. How is that balanced? Weavers only do high damage if you stack every possible dmg modifier on them and they dont fuck up their rotations (including picking up banners, not picking up conjureds because someone else took them etc.), while scourge just needs to bounce epidemic.

 

I'm not saying any of those 2 classes are op/up, or that necro needs nerf (it needs some buffs actually), but epidemic is simply game breaking because it's such a low effort/high reward skill on a class which has enough self sustain, making it very easy to stack and abuse.