bravan.3876 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 > @"Mervent.2635" said: > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > We're splitting [signet of the Ether](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_the_Ether "Signet of the Ether") in the next release. (Scheduled for tomorrow, unless things go awry.) In PvP and WvW, Phantasm skills are recharged by 50% rather than 100%. 50% of the base recharge subtracted from the current recharge. If you have a 40 second phantasm that is on a 35 second recharge, it will change to a 15 second recharge. > > > > We know it won't get us all the way there on Mesmer balance, but more will come with the full balance release. > > > > Edit: Made explanation more clear. > > By doing that change you just hit many builds, other than chrono, that is using signet of ether and not using disenchanter > (which tbh was badly reworked and created a lot of problems around mesmer balance). > And many of those builds don't have anything close to chrono phantasm spam. > Personally, i never run chrono, and i'm resetting gs4 with ether which can be pretty easily evaded. > And that's it. > > Well i don't care a lot for spvp, so i'll say for wvw only . > Phantasms absolutely useless in anything except small fights in WvW. > They can't do anything in wvw zerg fights, they just get interrupted/deleted faster than do any damage. > And there is no big issue in phantasm spam in wvw, so what is the point doing that change for WvW? > Don't we have skill split just for that? I just said that it is a stupid way of balancing to nerfs skills/traits not causing the problem in the first place, it is the new phantasm mechanic incl unneeded or overdone buffs to some phantasms. Neither the signet nor chronophantasm were a problem before this change and nerfing them will just lower build diversity and only cut some leaves instead the roots of the problem. Maybe after nerfing signet and chronophantasm the broken chronobuild will notbe that op anymore but the skill/traits will be useless for every other build not based on phantasmspam. But yes as expected anet prefer the easy but worse way of balancing and a lot of mesmer mains even agreed to this nonesense. Just revert the broken phantasm mechanic in most parts except that phantasm turn into clones after one attack and nerf dmg of the op phantasms. Its not a shame to admit that you made a big fail with the phnatasm changes and it shows strengh and brain to just revert this mistake... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 > @"Imperadordf.2687" said: > On demo weekends and post-PoF launch, both Mirage and FB were at the same spot, the trash bin. Both of them got huge buffs and bug fixes. I mean, with Infinite Horizon, clones were doing almost zero damage. Elusive Mind probably was the only decent thing for Mirages. After a lot of forum cries, it got some stuff, a lot of bugs got fixed etc. Then the infamous post-pof condi mirage was born. I wish revenants got the same love. Alas~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperadordf.2687 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > @"Imperadordf.2687" said: > > On demo weekends and post-PoF launch, both Mirage and FB were at the same spot, the trash bin. Both of them got huge buffs and bug fixes. I mean, with Infinite Horizon, clones were doing almost zero damage. Elusive Mind probably was the only decent thing for Mirages. After a lot of forum cries, it got some stuff, a lot of bugs got fixed etc. Then the infamous post-pof condi mirage was born. > > I wish revenants got the same love. Alas~ One day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazySummer.2568 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 Signet of Ether nerf is nice, but i still feel that the main issue is the Chronophantsma trait. Double dmg / cc / boon removal / condi clense / quickness/might generation is way too good on passive. What prepatch SoE + CS did was taking Chronophantasma to absurd levels. Maybe they should remove CP and make SoE/CS give you CP effect for some time so people know when to engage/disengage against chronos and chronos also cant just spam phantasms mindlessly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoopop.5630 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 > @"Imperadordf.2687" said: > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > @"RabbitUp.8294" said: > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > > > > > > We're splitting [signet of the Ether](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_the_Ether "Signet of the Ether") in the next release. (Scheduled for tomorrow, unless things go awry.) In PvP and WvW, Phantasm skills are recharged by 50% rather than 100%. 50% of the base recharge subtracted from the current recharge. If you have a 40 second phantasm that is on a 35 second recharge, it will change to a 15 second recharge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We know it won't get us all the way there on Mesmer balance, but more will come with the full balance release. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Made explanation more clear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, I really hope that isn't the biggest nerf you guys have in store. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Second. Please for the love of joko look through the mesmer forums for suggestions on what to nerf. The last several balance patches you guys have completely ignored us when we told you what was overpowered and needed to be nerfed, and look where we are at now with mesmer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Third, please strongly consider putting up a list of the proposed mesmer nerfs at least one month in advance so you can get feedback on it, and then actually have time to act on that feedback, and get a second round of feedback, and act on that round too, before the changes are finalized. > > > > > > > > > > > > Objective and unbiased feedback?....that's a big promise, too big for a single individual to make > > > > > > > > > > Never used the words objective and unbiased, but thanks for putting words in my mouth. > > > > > > > > > > Besides, it was mesmer mains who were telling ANet that kitten would be broken beyond belief before it was even introduced, back to before PoF launched. If they had listened to us, mesmer wouldn't be nearly as strong as it is right now. With everyone else crying about phantasm caps, it was mesmer mains who were pointing out that SotE and CP were the reason so many phantasms could be summoned in the first place. It was mesmer mains who were giving ideas as to how to address these issues, not you guys. > > > > > > > > It was mesmer mains that were saying mirage is a failed spec and would suck at everything and it was mesmer mains that were lamenting the phantasm rework, saying that it would nerf and destroy the class. > > > > > > > > Don't act like there's a single shared opinion among mesmer mains. > > > > > > And mirage _was_ a failed spec before the changes that it received. Axe and ambush attacks were horribly weak, on top of a clunky dodge that wasn't even long enough to secure the channel on our ambush attacks when it was first revealed. Its not our fault that Anet took our feedback on everything that was underwhelming, but ignored our cries about EM > > > > > > No mesmer main worth listening to ever said the phantasm rework was going to destroy the class. You made that up, and its quite obvious. > > > > > > And no, no group this large will ever have a single shared opinion. Nice faux argument there, trying to claim that since we didn't have a unanimous opinion, that clearly none of our suggestions hold merit. Get off your high hors > > > > how was mirage a failed spec before the changes that it received? It was busted all over the place..... Confusion stacking was bunkers, Power mirage is freaking stupid powerful before as well, and even NOW after some changes made they are still really good. I mean BOTH Na and Eu Pro teams had mirages played during UGO(condi at that). I don't understand the statement you made saying they were underwhelming. > > > > and quiet few mesmer main complaint saying the class was going to be awfully weak(these are some of the best mesmer players in na, I have discord conversation to back this up.). Mesmer during Pof was never weak or crap, it just took a while for everyone to figure out the class and how to properly play it same crap was for FB. > > On demo weekends and post-PoF launch, both Mirage and FB were at the same spot, the trash bin. Both of them got huge buffs and bug fixes. I mean, with Infinite Horizon, clones were doing almost zero damage. Elusive Mind probably was the only decent thing for Mirages. After a lot of forum cries, it got some stuff, a lot of bugs got fixed etc. Then the infamous post-pof condi mirage was born. But that’s exactly that .... a demo weekend, what else is everyone else Expecting ? After that they were kitten op and still are lol. Release of Pof and everything else has shown that Mesmer were OP before the cunfusion nerf and After the rework. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperadordf.2687 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > @"Imperadordf.2687" said: > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > @"RabbitUp.8294" said: > > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > > > > > > > We're splitting [signet of the Ether](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_the_Ether "Signet of the Ether") in the next release. (Scheduled for tomorrow, unless things go awry.) In PvP and WvW, Phantasm skills are recharged by 50% rather than 100%. 50% of the base recharge subtracted from the current recharge. If you have a 40 second phantasm that is on a 35 second recharge, it will change to a 15 second recharge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We know it won't get us all the way there on Mesmer balance, but more will come with the full balance release. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Made explanation more clear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, I really hope that isn't the biggest nerf you guys have in store. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Second. Please for the love of joko look through the mesmer forums for suggestions on what to nerf. The last several balance patches you guys have completely ignored us when we told you what was overpowered and needed to be nerfed, and look where we are at now with mesmer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Third, please strongly consider putting up a list of the proposed mesmer nerfs at least one month in advance so you can get feedback on it, and then actually have time to act on that feedback, and get a second round of feedback, and act on that round too, before the changes are finalized. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Objective and unbiased feedback?....that's a big promise, too big for a single individual to make > > > > > > > > > > > > Never used the words objective and unbiased, but thanks for putting words in my mouth. > > > > > > > > > > > > Besides, it was mesmer mains who were telling ANet that kitten would be broken beyond belief before it was even introduced, back to before PoF launched. If they had listened to us, mesmer wouldn't be nearly as strong as it is right now. With everyone else crying about phantasm caps, it was mesmer mains who were pointing out that SotE and CP were the reason so many phantasms could be summoned in the first place. It was mesmer mains who were giving ideas as to how to address these issues, not you guys. > > > > > > > > > > It was mesmer mains that were saying mirage is a failed spec and would suck at everything and it was mesmer mains that were lamenting the phantasm rework, saying that it would nerf and destroy the class. > > > > > > > > > > Don't act like there's a single shared opinion among mesmer mains. > > > > > > > > And mirage _was_ a failed spec before the changes that it received. Axe and ambush attacks were horribly weak, on top of a clunky dodge that wasn't even long enough to secure the channel on our ambush attacks when it was first revealed. Its not our fault that Anet took our feedback on everything that was underwhelming, but ignored our cries about EM > > > > > > > > No mesmer main worth listening to ever said the phantasm rework was going to destroy the class. You made that up, and its quite obvious. > > > > > > > > And no, no group this large will ever have a single shared opinion. Nice faux argument there, trying to claim that since we didn't have a unanimous opinion, that clearly none of our suggestions hold merit. Get off your high hors > > > > > > how was mirage a failed spec before the changes that it received? It was busted all over the place..... Confusion stacking was bunkers, Power mirage is freaking stupid powerful before as well, and even NOW after some changes made they are still really good. I mean BOTH Na and Eu Pro teams had mirages played during UGO(condi at that). I don't understand the statement you made saying they were underwhelming. > > > > > > and quiet few mesmer main complaint saying the class was going to be awfully weak(these are some of the best mesmer players in na, I have discord conversation to back this up.). Mesmer during Pof was never weak or crap, it just took a while for everyone to figure out the class and how to properly play it same crap was for FB. > > > > On demo weekends and post-PoF launch, both Mirage and FB were at the same spot, the trash bin. Both of them got huge buffs and bug fixes. I mean, with Infinite Horizon, clones were doing almost zero damage. Elusive Mind probably was the only decent thing for Mirages. After a lot of forum cries, it got some stuff, a lot of bugs got fixed etc. Then the infamous post-pof condi mirage was born. > > But that’s exactly that .... a demo weekend, what else is everyone else Expecting ? After that they were kitten op and still are lol. Release of Pof and everything else has shown that Mesmer were OP before the cunfusion nerf and After the rework. But I think Ori meant those times. First Mirage buff was like 3 weeks after PoF launch. Anet took Mesmers' feedback and buffed some underpowered things and fixed the bugs, but they forgot to nerf. Sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geist.9173 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 This wasn't exactly a balance patch. :s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vague Memory.2817 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 Nerfing SoE was an overkill. It was basically a very crude way to stop one build and that is using the two phat generating utilities. However it nerfs everyone who uses phants which is everyone regardless of what your build you use. Pretty stupid really. SoE has been a phant generator from the start of it's inception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exalted Quality.8534 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 the damage still needs to be toned down a lot...someone with leadership rune/paladin ammy should not have that much burst...didn’t they say they would do mid-season patching? are we not at mid-season yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > @"Imperadordf.2687" said: > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > @"RabbitUp.8294" said: > > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > > > > > > > We're splitting [signet of the Ether](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_the_Ether "Signet of the Ether") in the next release. (Scheduled for tomorrow, unless things go awry.) In PvP and WvW, Phantasm skills are recharged by 50% rather than 100%. 50% of the base recharge subtracted from the current recharge. If you have a 40 second phantasm that is on a 35 second recharge, it will change to a 15 second recharge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We know it won't get us all the way there on Mesmer balance, but more will come with the full balance release. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Made explanation more clear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, I really hope that isn't the biggest nerf you guys have in store. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Second. Please for the love of joko look through the mesmer forums for suggestions on what to nerf. The last several balance patches you guys have completely ignored us when we told you what was overpowered and needed to be nerfed, and look where we are at now with mesmer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Third, please strongly consider putting up a list of the proposed mesmer nerfs at least one month in advance so you can get feedback on it, and then actually have time to act on that feedback, and get a second round of feedback, and act on that round too, before the changes are finalized. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Objective and unbiased feedback?....that's a big promise, too big for a single individual to make > > > > > > > > > > > > Never used the words objective and unbiased, but thanks for putting words in my mouth. > > > > > > > > > > > > Besides, it was mesmer mains who were telling ANet that kitten would be broken beyond belief before it was even introduced, back to before PoF launched. If they had listened to us, mesmer wouldn't be nearly as strong as it is right now. With everyone else crying about phantasm caps, it was mesmer mains who were pointing out that SotE and CP were the reason so many phantasms could be summoned in the first place. It was mesmer mains who were giving ideas as to how to address these issues, not you guys. > > > > > > > > > > It was mesmer mains that were saying mirage is a failed spec and would suck at everything and it was mesmer mains that were lamenting the phantasm rework, saying that it would nerf and destroy the class. > > > > > > > > > > Don't act like there's a single shared opinion among mesmer mains. > > > > > > > > And mirage _was_ a failed spec before the changes that it received. Axe and ambush attacks were horribly weak, on top of a clunky dodge that wasn't even long enough to secure the channel on our ambush attacks when it was first revealed. Its not our fault that Anet took our feedback on everything that was underwhelming, but ignored our cries about EM > > > > > > > > No mesmer main worth listening to ever said the phantasm rework was going to destroy the class. You made that up, and its quite obvious. > > > > > > > > And no, no group this large will ever have a single shared opinion. Nice faux argument there, trying to claim that since we didn't have a unanimous opinion, that clearly none of our suggestions hold merit. Get off your high hors > > > > > > how was mirage a failed spec before the changes that it received? It was busted all over the place..... Confusion stacking was bunkers, Power mirage is freaking stupid powerful before as well, and even NOW after some changes made they are still really good. I mean BOTH Na and Eu Pro teams had mirages played during UGO(condi at that). I don't understand the statement you made saying they were underwhelming. > > > > > > and quiet few mesmer main complaint saying the class was going to be awfully weak(these are some of the best mesmer players in na, I have discord conversation to back this up.). Mesmer during Pof was never weak or crap, it just took a while for everyone to figure out the class and how to properly play it same crap was for FB. > > > > On demo weekends and post-PoF launch, both Mirage and FB were at the same spot, the trash bin. Both of them got huge buffs and bug fixes. I mean, with Infinite Horizon, clones were doing almost zero damage. Elusive Mind probably was the only decent thing for Mirages. After a lot of forum cries, it got some stuff, a lot of bugs got fixed etc. Then the infamous post-pof condi mirage was born. > > But that’s exactly that .... a demo weekend, what else is everyone else Expecting ? After that they were kitten op and still are lol. Release of Pof and everything else has shown that Mesmer were OP before the cunfusion nerf and After the rework. During the demo weekend Mirage was hot garbage. Like... really, really bad. PvE there was no way the original incarnation of Axe and Mirage were breaking 29k DPS so it would have been DOA as a DPS spec. PvP none of the ambush skills were any good except the leap on sword and just for the leap. Mirage cloak felt really poor since you could only evade at fullspeed in three directions without wasting invincibility frames. As a PvP shatter spec, it lacked the endless supply of ammo that Chronophantasma provided. It was legit really bad almost no one was happy for it except for flavor. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer?page=1 It's really funny to look back at the sheer level of doom and gloom regarding Mirage at the time. Then they revamped the traits, buffed the ambush skills across the board, extended the duration of Mirage Cloak. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/2702/mirage-specialization-updates-for-the-path-of-fire-launch/p1 There were a large number of buffs after this as well. Staff ambush got buffed several times after this. A huuuuge part of why Condi Mirage became so dominant wasn't actually Mirage, but because that they actually added a new trait a few weeks before Path of Fire, Ineptitude, to dueling which synergized with Blinding Dissipation to make condi shatters absurdly powerful. Like people hated / hate Mirage, but it was and is really Maim the Disillusioned, Blinding Dissipation and Ineptitude that really do all the heavy lifting for Condi builds. Mirage was and is run primarily for mobility from Mirage Thrust and Jaunt, and Elusive Mind. Except for Axe users. When a Mirage hits you with a stack of Thirty Confusion, like 5-8 of it are coming from the Mirage traitline (Riddle of Sand and Jaunt) and the other 22-25 stacks are literally just coming from Blinding Dicipation+Ineptitude Cry of Frustration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 > @"bravan.3876" said: > > @"Mervent.2635" said: > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > We're splitting [signet of the Ether](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_the_Ether "Signet of the Ether") in the next release. (Scheduled for tomorrow, unless things go awry.) In PvP and WvW, Phantasm skills are recharged by 50% rather than 100%. 50% of the base recharge subtracted from the current recharge. If you have a 40 second phantasm that is on a 35 second recharge, it will change to a 15 second recharge. > > > > > > We know it won't get us all the way there on Mesmer balance, but more will come with the full balance release. > > > > > > Edit: Made explanation more clear. > > > > By doing that change you just hit many builds, other than chrono, that is using signet of ether and not using disenchanter > > (which tbh was badly reworked and created a lot of problems around mesmer balance). > > And many of those builds don't have anything close to chrono phantasm spam. > > Personally, i never run chrono, and i'm resetting gs4 with ether which can be pretty easily evaded. > > And that's it. > > > > Well i don't care a lot for spvp, so i'll say for wvw only . > > Phantasms absolutely useless in anything except small fights in WvW. > > They can't do anything in wvw zerg fights, they just get interrupted/deleted faster than do any damage. > > And there is no big issue in phantasm spam in wvw, so what is the point doing that change for WvW? > > Don't we have skill split just for that? > > I just said that it is a stupid way of balancing to nerfs skills/traits not causing the problem in the first place, it is the new phantasm mechanic incl unneeded or overdone buffs to some phantasms. Neither the signet nor chronophantasm were a problem before this change and nerfing them will just lower build diversity and only cut some leaves instead the roots of the problem. Maybe after nerfing signet and chronophantasm the broken chronobuild will notbe that op anymore but the skill/traits will be useless for every other build not based on phantasmspam. But yes as expected anet prefer the easy but worse way of balancing and a lot of mesmer mains even agreed to this nonesense. > Just revert the broken phantasm mechanic in most parts except that phantasm turn into clones after one attack and nerf dmg of the op phantasms. Its not a shame to admit that you made a big fail with the phnatasm changes and it shows strengh and brain to just revert this mistake... Phantasms were literally worthless before the rework. They had zero use in PvP but as shatter fodder or PvE except for Boonshare PvE Chronos and only for their alacrity. DPS mesmers in PvE literaly never summoned Phantasms. Ever. That's how badly they were all designed. You revert the phantasm damage to the way it was before and only have them attack once like you've suggested and you've essentially **deleted** the entire class's 4-5 skills on literally all our weapons. Some Phantasms are over tuned. But anything is going to be over tuned when Chronophantasma and Signet of the Ether multiplied their output by 4X. And balancing Phantasms to be balanced around this one trait and one heal skill would require phantasms being completely worthless for every spec not running them. It makes infintely more sense to have phantasms have predictable output and then balance them around that than letting one spec be the only one where one of our main class mechanics has any use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicTurtle.8571 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 > @"RabbitUp.8294" said: > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > > > We're splitting [signet of the Ether](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_the_Ether "Signet of the Ether") in the next release. (Scheduled for tomorrow, unless things go awry.) In PvP and WvW, Phantasm skills are recharged by 50% rather than 100%. 50% of the base recharge subtracted from the current recharge. If you have a 40 second phantasm that is on a 35 second recharge, it will change to a 15 second recharge. > > > > > > > > > > We know it won't get us all the way there on Mesmer balance, but more will come with the full balance release. > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Made explanation more clear. > > > > > > > > First, I really hope that isn't the biggest nerf you guys have in store. > > > > > > > > Second. Please for the love of joko look through the mesmer forums for suggestions on what to nerf. The last several balance patches you guys have completely ignored us when we told you what was overpowered and needed to be nerfed, and look where we are at now with mesmer. > > > > > > > > Third, please strongly consider putting up a list of the proposed mesmer nerfs at least one month in advance so you can get feedback on it, and then actually have time to act on that feedback, and get a second round of feedback, and act on that round too, before the changes are finalized. > > > > > > Objective and unbiased feedback?....that's a big promise, too big for a single individual to make > > > > Never used the words objective and unbiased, but thanks for putting words in my mouth. > > > > Besides, it was mesmer mains who were telling ANet that kitten would be broken beyond belief before it was even introduced, back to before PoF launched. If they had listened to us, mesmer wouldn't be nearly as strong as it is right now. With everyone else crying about phantasm caps, it was mesmer mains who were pointing out that SotE and CP were the reason so many phantasms could be summoned in the first place. It was mesmer mains who were giving ideas as to how to address these issues, not you guys. > > It was mesmer mains that were saying mirage is a failed spec and would suck at everything and it was mesmer mains that were lamenting the phantasm rework, saying that it would nerf and destroy the class. > > Don't act like there's a single shared opinion among mesmer mains. Mirage was a failed spec in the beginning that was common to everyone and to my knowledge about 2 or 3 mesmer mains were actually vocal about the phantasm rework in a negative manner. Context is super cool, so is having basic mnemonic capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > @"Mervent.2635" said: > > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > > We're splitting [signet of the Ether](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_the_Ether "Signet of the Ether") in the next release. (Scheduled for tomorrow, unless things go awry.) In PvP and WvW, Phantasm skills are recharged by 50% rather than 100%. 50% of the base recharge subtracted from the current recharge. If you have a 40 second phantasm that is on a 35 second recharge, it will change to a 15 second recharge. > > > > > > > > We know it won't get us all the way there on Mesmer balance, but more will come with the full balance release. > > > > > > > > Edit: Made explanation more clear. > > > > > > By doing that change you just hit many builds, other than chrono, that is using signet of ether and not using disenchanter > > > (which tbh was badly reworked and created a lot of problems around mesmer balance). > > > And many of those builds don't have anything close to chrono phantasm spam. > > > Personally, i never run chrono, and i'm resetting gs4 with ether which can be pretty easily evaded. > > > And that's it. > > > > > > Well i don't care a lot for spvp, so i'll say for wvw only . > > > Phantasms absolutely useless in anything except small fights in WvW. > > > They can't do anything in wvw zerg fights, they just get interrupted/deleted faster than do any damage. > > > And there is no big issue in phantasm spam in wvw, so what is the point doing that change for WvW? > > > Don't we have skill split just for that? > > > > I just said that it is a stupid way of balancing to nerfs skills/traits not causing the problem in the first place, it is the new phantasm mechanic incl unneeded or overdone buffs to some phantasms. Neither the signet nor chronophantasm were a problem before this change and nerfing them will just lower build diversity and only cut some leaves instead the roots of the problem. Maybe after nerfing signet and chronophantasm the broken chronobuild will notbe that op anymore but the skill/traits will be useless for every other build not based on phantasmspam. But yes as expected anet prefer the easy but worse way of balancing and a lot of mesmer mains even agreed to this nonesense. > > Just revert the broken phantasm mechanic in most parts except that phantasm turn into clones after one attack and nerf dmg of the op phantasms. Its not a shame to admit that you made a big fail with the phnatasm changes and it shows strengh and brain to just revert this mistake... > > Phantasms were literally worthless before the rework. They had zero use in PvP but as shatter fodder or PvE except for Boonshare PvE Chronos and only for their alacrity. DPS mesmers in PvE literaly never summoned Phantasms. Ever. That's how badly they were all designed. You revert the phantasm damage to the way it was before and only have them attack once like you've suggested and you've essentially **deleted** the entire class's 4-5 skills on literally all our weapons. > > Some Phantasms are over tuned. But anything is going to be over tuned when Chronophantasma and Signet of the Ether multiplied their output by 4X. And balancing Phantasms to be balanced around this one trait and one heal skill would require phantasms being completely worthless for every spec not running them. It makes infintely more sense to have phantasms have predictable output and then balance them around that than letting one spec be the only one where one of our main class mechanics has any use. Yes i heard these arguments already and i don't think they are true. As far as i know the phantasm rework was done for PvE, so mesmers cannot just summon 3 perma phantams and autoattack through the bosses. Another reason for the rework was that mesmer should not decide between let phantasms live or shatter them. These decision gets already obsolete when phantasm turn into a clone after one attack. Mesmers class mechanic is shatter, a phantasm based spec should simply not exist. Phantasm are just other designed dmg skills and for that they all did enough dmg around 4-6k, pistol phantasm could even crit 9k, also sword phantasm was strong in dmg. Staff phantasm hit like a truck on power when the target had some conditions on (and the projectil wasn't too slow to hit). That sword or pistol didn't get used in PvP was not because they did too less dmg, it was becasue the weapan in general was not usefull because of for example too less defensive. When a phantasm did less dmg or could not easy hit the target (focus, torch) than because it was a defensive weapon. That was balanced from the dmg part also for only one attack. Phantasms don't need a buff when every shattermes shatter them after one attack anyway since gamerelease. Just give up the idea of a phantasm spec for mesmer, npc carried specs are just bad in PvP, see turret engi and minion master necro. Lucky these brainlesss builds are not viable anymore, don't ask for giving mesmer a new one. Phantasms shouldn't be more than a little addition to the shattermechanic and not a whole alternative mechanic. L2shatter not only random to clean the clones before 3 new will come from phantasm spam anyway... Return this broken mechanic except the turn into clone thing, let staff still beam instead of a slow projectil but make it to only one phantasm, also no 2 berserker trait for gs. Phantasms were never useless, they always made good dmg. The utility phantasms ofc needed a reword because perma effects make no sense anymore but sure not a rework giving them a 10k hit. Btw phantasm mirage is played with mirage heal and has no chronophantasm and is still broken too and will see a return the moment chrono is not just only more broken anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 > @"bravan.3876" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > @"Mervent.2635" said: > > > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > > > We're splitting [signet of the Ether](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_the_Ether "Signet of the Ether") in the next release. (Scheduled for tomorrow, unless things go awry.) In PvP and WvW, Phantasm skills are recharged by 50% rather than 100%. 50% of the base recharge subtracted from the current recharge. If you have a 40 second phantasm that is on a 35 second recharge, it will change to a 15 second recharge. > > > > > > > > > > We know it won't get us all the way there on Mesmer balance, but more will come with the full balance release. > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Made explanation more clear. > > > > > > > > By doing that change you just hit many builds, other than chrono, that is using signet of ether and not using disenchanter > > > > (which tbh was badly reworked and created a lot of problems around mesmer balance). > > > > And many of those builds don't have anything close to chrono phantasm spam. > > > > Personally, i never run chrono, and i'm resetting gs4 with ether which can be pretty easily evaded. > > > > And that's it. > > > > > > > > Well i don't care a lot for spvp, so i'll say for wvw only . > > > > Phantasms absolutely useless in anything except small fights in WvW. > > > > They can't do anything in wvw zerg fights, they just get interrupted/deleted faster than do any damage. > > > > And there is no big issue in phantasm spam in wvw, so what is the point doing that change for WvW? > > > > Don't we have skill split just for that? > > > > > > I just said that it is a stupid way of balancing to nerfs skills/traits not causing the problem in the first place, it is the new phantasm mechanic incl unneeded or overdone buffs to some phantasms. Neither the signet nor chronophantasm were a problem before this change and nerfing them will just lower build diversity and only cut some leaves instead the roots of the problem. Maybe after nerfing signet and chronophantasm the broken chronobuild will notbe that op anymore but the skill/traits will be useless for every other build not based on phantasmspam. But yes as expected anet prefer the easy but worse way of balancing and a lot of mesmer mains even agreed to this nonesense. > > > Just revert the broken phantasm mechanic in most parts except that phantasm turn into clones after one attack and nerf dmg of the op phantasms. Its not a shame to admit that you made a big fail with the phnatasm changes and it shows strengh and brain to just revert this mistake... > > > > Phantasms were literally worthless before the rework. They had zero use in PvP but as shatter fodder or PvE except for Boonshare PvE Chronos and only for their alacrity. DPS mesmers in PvE literaly never summoned Phantasms. Ever. That's how badly they were all designed. You revert the phantasm damage to the way it was before and only have them attack once like you've suggested and you've essentially **deleted** the entire class's 4-5 skills on literally all our weapons. > > > > Some Phantasms are over tuned. But anything is going to be over tuned when Chronophantasma and Signet of the Ether multiplied their output by 4X. And balancing Phantasms to be balanced around this one trait and one heal skill would require phantasms being completely worthless for every spec not running them. It makes infintely more sense to have phantasms have predictable output and then balance them around that than letting one spec be the only one where one of our main class mechanics has any use. > > Yes i heard these arguments already and i don't think they are true. As far as i know the phantasm rework was done for PvE, so mesmers cannot just summon 3 perma phantams and autoattack through the bosses. Another reason for the rework was that mesmer should not decide between let phantasms live or shatter them. These decision gets already obsolete when phantasm turn into a clone after one attack. Mesmers class mechanic is shatter, a phantasm based spec should simply not exist. Phantasm are just other designed dmg skills and for that they all did enough dmg around 4-6k, pistol phantasm could even crit 9k, also sword phantasm was strong in dmg. Staff phantasm hit like a truck on power when the target had some conditions on (and the projectil wasn't too slow to hit). That sword or pistol didn't get used in PvP was not because they did too less dmg, it was becasue the weapan in general was not usefull because of for example too less defensive. When a phantasm did less dmg or could not easy hit the target (focus, torch) than because it was a defensive weapon. That was balanced from the dmg part also for only one attack. Phantasms don't need a buff when every shattermes shatter them after one attack anyway since gamerelease. Just give up the idea of a phantasm spec for mesmer, npc carried specs are just bad in PvP, see turret engi and minion master necro. Lucky these brainlesss builds are not viable anymore, don't ask for giving mesmer a new one. Phantasms shouldn't be more than a little addition to the shattermechanic and not a whole alternative mechanic. L2shatter not only random to clean the clones before 3 new will come from phantasm spam anyway... > > Return this broken mechanic except the turn into clone thing, let staff still beam instead of a slow projectil but make it to only one phantasm, also no 2 berserker trait for gs. > Phantasms were never useless, they always made good dmg. The utility phantasms ofc needed a reword because perma effects make no sense anymore but sure not a rework giving them a 10k hit. > > Btw phantasm mirage is played with mirage heal and has no chronophantasm and is still broken too and will see a return the moment chrono is not just only more broken anymore. > The rework was done because the developer team were not happpy with how phantasms performed in all areas of the game. Not just PvE. I don't think I've seen a the old Phantasm Mirage in PvP in platinum since Season 11 started. That last balance patch after their effortless 25 might stacking got nerfed almost all of the people running builds like that moved on to Chronobunker. I only see Greatsword Burst Mirages and Condimirages. You literally don't know what you're talking about. Maybe a Power Staff mesmer could get an 7K crit with the Staff Phantasm on something like a World Boss that has every single condition in the game, but they in absolutely no way ever were "Hitting like a truck." It was always far more beneficial to shatter them in opponent's faces as soon as possible before they did their attack animation and potentially got cleaved down. Power Staff was not a thing that ever existed in any serious capacity in any game mode in this entire game's life. Outside of a raid setting where you consistently have 100% Crit Chance and 25 Might Pistol Phantasms were never hitting for 4-6k. You entire post is full of completely wrong information. The only phantasm that was getting 4-6k damage in a PvP scenario was Sword Phantasm and you were never going to tag another player with that thing. The only phantasm that was could reliably hit enemies in PvP was the Greatsword Phantasm, which aside from Imagined Burden and Chronophantasma was not buffed all that considerably. Post rework and free from the baggage of carrying the entire mesmer's DPS in PvE over the duration of a 5-10 minute fight, Phantasms are now just our 4-5 skills with Fancy delivery systems. They should be as impactful as any class's 4-5 skill. And aside from Disenchanter and Defender out performing and Chronophantasma that's about where all of the phantasms are. Heck Focus is severely weaker post rework. It's hilarious that you think that phantasms are similtanously too strong but a trait and heal skill that multiplied their damage output by 4X were not too strong and shouldn't be touched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > @"Mervent.2635" said: > > > > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > > > > We're splitting [signet of the Ether](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_the_Ether "Signet of the Ether") in the next release. (Scheduled for tomorrow, unless things go awry.) In PvP and WvW, Phantasm skills are recharged by 50% rather than 100%. 50% of the base recharge subtracted from the current recharge. If you have a 40 second phantasm that is on a 35 second recharge, it will change to a 15 second recharge. > > > > > > > > > > > > We know it won't get us all the way there on Mesmer balance, but more will come with the full balance release. > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Made explanation more clear. > > > > > > > > > > By doing that change you just hit many builds, other than chrono, that is using signet of ether and not using disenchanter > > > > > (which tbh was badly reworked and created a lot of problems around mesmer balance). > > > > > And many of those builds don't have anything close to chrono phantasm spam. > > > > > Personally, i never run chrono, and i'm resetting gs4 with ether which can be pretty easily evaded. > > > > > And that's it. > > > > > > > > > > Well i don't care a lot for spvp, so i'll say for wvw only . > > > > > Phantasms absolutely useless in anything except small fights in WvW. > > > > > They can't do anything in wvw zerg fights, they just get interrupted/deleted faster than do any damage. > > > > > And there is no big issue in phantasm spam in wvw, so what is the point doing that change for WvW? > > > > > Don't we have skill split just for that? > > > > > > > > I just said that it is a stupid way of balancing to nerfs skills/traits not causing the problem in the first place, it is the new phantasm mechanic incl unneeded or overdone buffs to some phantasms. Neither the signet nor chronophantasm were a problem before this change and nerfing them will just lower build diversity and only cut some leaves instead the roots of the problem. Maybe after nerfing signet and chronophantasm the broken chronobuild will notbe that op anymore but the skill/traits will be useless for every other build not based on phantasmspam. But yes as expected anet prefer the easy but worse way of balancing and a lot of mesmer mains even agreed to this nonesense. > > > > Just revert the broken phantasm mechanic in most parts except that phantasm turn into clones after one attack and nerf dmg of the op phantasms. Its not a shame to admit that you made a big fail with the phnatasm changes and it shows strengh and brain to just revert this mistake... > > > > > > Phantasms were literally worthless before the rework. They had zero use in PvP but as shatter fodder or PvE except for Boonshare PvE Chronos and only for their alacrity. DPS mesmers in PvE literaly never summoned Phantasms. Ever. That's how badly they were all designed. You revert the phantasm damage to the way it was before and only have them attack once like you've suggested and you've essentially **deleted** the entire class's 4-5 skills on literally all our weapons. > > > > > > Some Phantasms are over tuned. But anything is going to be over tuned when Chronophantasma and Signet of the Ether multiplied their output by 4X. And balancing Phantasms to be balanced around this one trait and one heal skill would require phantasms being completely worthless for every spec not running them. It makes infintely more sense to have phantasms have predictable output and then balance them around that than letting one spec be the only one where one of our main class mechanics has any use. > > > > Yes i heard these arguments already and i don't think they are true. As far as i know the phantasm rework was done for PvE, so mesmers cannot just summon 3 perma phantams and autoattack through the bosses. Another reason for the rework was that mesmer should not decide between let phantasms live or shatter them. These decision gets already obsolete when phantasm turn into a clone after one attack. Mesmers class mechanic is shatter, a phantasm based spec should simply not exist. Phantasm are just other designed dmg skills and for that they all did enough dmg around 4-6k, pistol phantasm could even crit 9k, also sword phantasm was strong in dmg. Staff phantasm hit like a truck on power when the target had some conditions on (and the projectil wasn't too slow to hit). That sword or pistol didn't get used in PvP was not because they did too less dmg, it was becasue the weapan in general was not usefull because of for example too less defensive. When a phantasm did less dmg or could not easy hit the target (focus, torch) than because it was a defensive weapon. That was balanced from the dmg part also for only one attack. Phantasms don't need a buff when every shattermes shatter them after one attack anyway since gamerelease. Just give up the idea of a phantasm spec for mesmer, npc carried specs are just bad in PvP, see turret engi and minion master necro. Lucky these brainlesss builds are not viable anymore, don't ask for giving mesmer a new one. Phantasms shouldn't be more than a little addition to the shattermechanic and not a whole alternative mechanic. L2shatter not only random to clean the clones before 3 new will come from phantasm spam anyway... > > > > Return this broken mechanic except the turn into clone thing, let staff still beam instead of a slow projectil but make it to only one phantasm, also no 2 berserker trait for gs. > > Phantasms were never useless, they always made good dmg. The utility phantasms ofc needed a reword because perma effects make no sense anymore but sure not a rework giving them a 10k hit. > > > > Btw phantasm mirage is played with mirage heal and has no chronophantasm and is still broken too and will see a return the moment chrono is not just only more broken anymore. > > > > The rework was done because the developer team were not happpy with how phantasms performed in all areas of the game. Not just PvE. > > I don't think I've seen a the old Phantasm Mirage in PvP in platinum since Season 11 started. That last balance patch after their effortless 25 might stacking got nerfed almost all of the people running builds like that moved on to Chronobunker. I only see Greatsword Burst Mirages and Condimirages. > > You literally don't know what you're talking about. Maybe a Power Staff mesmer could get an 7K crit with the Staff Phantasm on something like a World Boss that has every single condition in the game, but they in absolutely no way ever were "Hitting like a truck." It was always far more beneficial to shatter them in opponent's faces as soon as possible before they did their attack animation and potentially got cleaved down. Power Staff was not a thing that ever existed in any serious capacity in any game mode in this entire game's life. Outside of a raid setting where you consistently have 100% Crit Chance and 25 Might Pistol Phantasms were never hitting for 4-6k. You entire post is full of completely wrong information. The only phantasm that was getting 4-6k damage in a PvP scenario was Sword Phantasm and you were never going to tag another player with that thing. > > The only phantasm that was could reliably hit enemies in PvP was the Greatsword Phantasm, which aside from Imagined Burden and Chronophantasma was buffed all that considerably. > > Post rework and free from the baggage of carrying the entire mesmer's DPS in PvE over the duration of a 5-10 minute fight, Phantasms are now just our 4-5 skills with Fancy delivery systems. They should be as impactful as any class's 4-5 skill. And aside from Disenchanter and Defender out performing and Chronophantasma that's about where all of the phantasms are. Heck Focus is severely weaker post rework. > > It's hilarious that you think that phantasms are similtanously too strong but a trait and heal skill that multiplied their damage output by 4X were not too strong and shouldn't be touched. I play mesmer myself often enough, just because it is not my main don't mean i have no clue. I dunno how you play, but ofc when you play with soldier gear because you instant dies otherwise or you play condigear than your phantasms don't hit for 6k xD My phantasms ever did on marauder or before marauder on berserker amulet. And the best phantasms in terms of dmg/hitchange where always pistolero, swordoffhand and gs berserker. Torch was equiped for the stealth and the revealburst and for condistacks and focus is a defensive weapon that is why the phantasm is not agile but hits very high when ppl stand in it. Sadly vashury deleted his videos, he made a video about staff power builds and the dmg it does when played correct. A Pistol/Swordoffhand phantasmbuild was very popular for a long time prehot in WvW. Stop chaotic mixing up PvE and PvP for your argumentation, that makes no sense. I only talk about PvP/WvW. I don't care when ppl are carried by npcs in PvE. I just told you what anet wrote in their patchnotes why they do the rework and the only thing they clearly said was, that they don't want mesmer having to decide between a phantasm playstyle and a shatterplaystyle anymore. So mesmer has only one mechanic like every other class and that is shatters! Phantasms are too strong in the moment they can create phantasmbased builds where shatters are just needed randomly spammed to clean the clones before 3 new will arrive from the phantasm spam. The trait and the signet were never too strong before the phantasm rework, the problem clearly is the new phantasm mechanic and not the trait/signet itself, they only have a good synergie to a broken mechanic, still only nerfing them will not totally fix the problem, it will only (maybe) fix chronomancer. The only reason phantasm mirage is not often played atm is, that chrono is just even more broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 > @"bravan.3876" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > > @"Mervent.2635" said: > > > > > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > > > > > We're splitting [signet of the Ether](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_the_Ether "Signet of the Ether") in the next release. (Scheduled for tomorrow, unless things go awry.) In PvP and WvW, Phantasm skills are recharged by 50% rather than 100%. 50% of the base recharge subtracted from the current recharge. If you have a 40 second phantasm that is on a 35 second recharge, it will change to a 15 second recharge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We know it won't get us all the way there on Mesmer balance, but more will come with the full balance release. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Made explanation more clear. > > > > > > > > > > > > By doing that change you just hit many builds, other than chrono, that is using signet of ether and not using disenchanter > > > > > > (which tbh was badly reworked and created a lot of problems around mesmer balance). > > > > > > And many of those builds don't have anything close to chrono phantasm spam. > > > > > > Personally, i never run chrono, and i'm resetting gs4 with ether which can be pretty easily evaded. > > > > > > And that's it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Well i don't care a lot for spvp, so i'll say for wvw only . > > > > > > Phantasms absolutely useless in anything except small fights in WvW. > > > > > > They can't do anything in wvw zerg fights, they just get interrupted/deleted faster than do any damage. > > > > > > And there is no big issue in phantasm spam in wvw, so what is the point doing that change for WvW? > > > > > > Don't we have skill split just for that? > > > > > > > > > > I just said that it is a stupid way of balancing to nerfs skills/traits not causing the problem in the first place, it is the new phantasm mechanic incl unneeded or overdone buffs to some phantasms. Neither the signet nor chronophantasm were a problem before this change and nerfing them will just lower build diversity and only cut some leaves instead the roots of the problem. Maybe after nerfing signet and chronophantasm the broken chronobuild will notbe that op anymore but the skill/traits will be useless for every other build not based on phantasmspam. But yes as expected anet prefer the easy but worse way of balancing and a lot of mesmer mains even agreed to this nonesense. > > > > > Just revert the broken phantasm mechanic in most parts except that phantasm turn into clones after one attack and nerf dmg of the op phantasms. Its not a shame to admit that you made a big fail with the phnatasm changes and it shows strengh and brain to just revert this mistake... > > > > > > > > Phantasms were literally worthless before the rework. They had zero use in PvP but as shatter fodder or PvE except for Boonshare PvE Chronos and only for their alacrity. DPS mesmers in PvE literaly never summoned Phantasms. Ever. That's how badly they were all designed. You revert the phantasm damage to the way it was before and only have them attack once like you've suggested and you've essentially **deleted** the entire class's 4-5 skills on literally all our weapons. > > > > > > > > Some Phantasms are over tuned. But anything is going to be over tuned when Chronophantasma and Signet of the Ether multiplied their output by 4X. And balancing Phantasms to be balanced around this one trait and one heal skill would require phantasms being completely worthless for every spec not running them. It makes infintely more sense to have phantasms have predictable output and then balance them around that than letting one spec be the only one where one of our main class mechanics has any use. > > > > > > Yes i heard these arguments already and i don't think they are true. As far as i know the phantasm rework was done for PvE, so mesmers cannot just summon 3 perma phantams and autoattack through the bosses. Another reason for the rework was that mesmer should not decide between let phantasms live or shatter them. These decision gets already obsolete when phantasm turn into a clone after one attack. Mesmers class mechanic is shatter, a phantasm based spec should simply not exist. Phantasm are just other designed dmg skills and for that they all did enough dmg around 4-6k, pistol phantasm could even crit 9k, also sword phantasm was strong in dmg. Staff phantasm hit like a truck on power when the target had some conditions on (and the projectil wasn't too slow to hit). That sword or pistol didn't get used in PvP was not because they did too less dmg, it was becasue the weapan in general was not usefull because of for example too less defensive. When a phantasm did less dmg or could not easy hit the target (focus, torch) than because it was a defensive weapon. That was balanced from the dmg part also for only one attack. Phantasms don't need a buff when every shattermes shatter them after one attack anyway since gamerelease. Just give up the idea of a phantasm spec for mesmer, npc carried specs are just bad in PvP, see turret engi and minion master necro. Lucky these brainlesss builds are not viable anymore, don't ask for giving mesmer a new one. Phantasms shouldn't be more than a little addition to the shattermechanic and not a whole alternative mechanic. L2shatter not only random to clean the clones before 3 new will come from phantasm spam anyway... > > > > > > Return this broken mechanic except the turn into clone thing, let staff still beam instead of a slow projectil but make it to only one phantasm, also no 2 berserker trait for gs. > > > Phantasms were never useless, they always made good dmg. The utility phantasms ofc needed a reword because perma effects make no sense anymore but sure not a rework giving them a 10k hit. > > > > > > Btw phantasm mirage is played with mirage heal and has no chronophantasm and is still broken too and will see a return the moment chrono is not just only more broken anymore. > > > > > > > The rework was done because the developer team were not happpy with how phantasms performed in all areas of the game. Not just PvE. > > > > I don't think I've seen a the old Phantasm Mirage in PvP in platinum since Season 11 started. That last balance patch after their effortless 25 might stacking got nerfed almost all of the people running builds like that moved on to Chronobunker. I only see Greatsword Burst Mirages and Condimirages. > > > > You literally don't know what you're talking about. Maybe a Power Staff mesmer could get an 7K crit with the Staff Phantasm on something like a World Boss that has every single condition in the game, but they in absolutely no way ever were "Hitting like a truck." It was always far more beneficial to shatter them in opponent's faces as soon as possible before they did their attack animation and potentially got cleaved down. Power Staff was not a thing that ever existed in any serious capacity in any game mode in this entire game's life. Outside of a raid setting where you consistently have 100% Crit Chance and 25 Might Pistol Phantasms were never hitting for 4-6k. You entire post is full of completely wrong information. The only phantasm that was getting 4-6k damage in a PvP scenario was Sword Phantasm and you were never going to tag another player with that thing. > > > > The only phantasm that was could reliably hit enemies in PvP was the Greatsword Phantasm, which aside from Imagined Burden and Chronophantasma was buffed all that considerably. > > > > Post rework and free from the baggage of carrying the entire mesmer's DPS in PvE over the duration of a 5-10 minute fight, Phantasms are now just our 4-5 skills with Fancy delivery systems. They should be as impactful as any class's 4-5 skill. And aside from Disenchanter and Defender out performing and Chronophantasma that's about where all of the phantasms are. Heck Focus is severely weaker post rework. > > > > It's hilarious that you think that phantasms are similtanously too strong but a trait and heal skill that multiplied their damage output by 4X were not too strong and shouldn't be touched. > > I play mesmer myself often enough, just because it is not my main don't mean i have no clue. I dunno how you play, but ofc when you play with soldier gear because you instant dies otherwise than your phantasms don't hit for 6k xD My phantasms ever did on marauder or before marauder on berserker amulet. And the best phantasms in terms of dmg/hitchange where always pistolero, swordoffhand and gs berserker. Torch was equiped for the stealth and the revealburst and for condistacks and focus is a defensive weapon that is why the phantasm is not agile but hits very high when ppl stand in it. Sadly vashury deleted his videos, he made a video about staff power builds and the dmg it does when played correct. A Pistol/Swordoffhand phantasmbuild was very popular for a long time prehot in WvW. Stop chaotic mixing up PvE and PvP for your argumentation, that makes no sense. I only talk about PvP/WvW. I don't care when ppl are carried by npcs in PvE. I just told you what anet wrote in their patchnotes why they do the rework and the only thing they clearly said was, that they don't want mesmer having to decide between a phantasm playstyle and a shatterplaystyle anymore. So mesmer has only one mechanic like every other class and that is shatters! Phantasms are too strong in the moment they can create phantasmbased builds where shatters are just needed randomly spammed to clean the clones before 3 new will arrive from the phantasm spam. > > The trait and the signet were never too strong before the phantasm rework, the problem clearly is the new phantasm mechanic and not the trait/signet itself, they only have a good synergie to a broken mechanic, still only nerfing them will not totally fix the problem, it will only (maybe) fix chronomancer. The only reason phantasm mirage is not often played atm is, that chrono is just even more broken. The Trait and Signet were never too strong before because multiplying garbage still gave you garbage. Now since they've been reworked they're more in line with other class's 4-5 skills. And Multiplying any classes-4-5 skill 4x would be absurdly overpowered on almost every class and weapon kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > > > @"Mervent.2635" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > > > > > > We're splitting [signet of the Ether](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_the_Ether "Signet of the Ether") in the next release. (Scheduled for tomorrow, unless things go awry.) In PvP and WvW, Phantasm skills are recharged by 50% rather than 100%. 50% of the base recharge subtracted from the current recharge. If you have a 40 second phantasm that is on a 35 second recharge, it will change to a 15 second recharge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We know it won't get us all the way there on Mesmer balance, but more will come with the full balance release. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Made explanation more clear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By doing that change you just hit many builds, other than chrono, that is using signet of ether and not using disenchanter > > > > > > > (which tbh was badly reworked and created a lot of problems around mesmer balance). > > > > > > > And many of those builds don't have anything close to chrono phantasm spam. > > > > > > > Personally, i never run chrono, and i'm resetting gs4 with ether which can be pretty easily evaded. > > > > > > > And that's it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well i don't care a lot for spvp, so i'll say for wvw only . > > > > > > > Phantasms absolutely useless in anything except small fights in WvW. > > > > > > > They can't do anything in wvw zerg fights, they just get interrupted/deleted faster than do any damage. > > > > > > > And there is no big issue in phantasm spam in wvw, so what is the point doing that change for WvW? > > > > > > > Don't we have skill split just for that? > > > > > > > > > > > > I just said that it is a stupid way of balancing to nerfs skills/traits not causing the problem in the first place, it is the new phantasm mechanic incl unneeded or overdone buffs to some phantasms. Neither the signet nor chronophantasm were a problem before this change and nerfing them will just lower build diversity and only cut some leaves instead the roots of the problem. Maybe after nerfing signet and chronophantasm the broken chronobuild will notbe that op anymore but the skill/traits will be useless for every other build not based on phantasmspam. But yes as expected anet prefer the easy but worse way of balancing and a lot of mesmer mains even agreed to this nonesense. > > > > > > Just revert the broken phantasm mechanic in most parts except that phantasm turn into clones after one attack and nerf dmg of the op phantasms. Its not a shame to admit that you made a big fail with the phnatasm changes and it shows strengh and brain to just revert this mistake... > > > > > > > > > > Phantasms were literally worthless before the rework. They had zero use in PvP but as shatter fodder or PvE except for Boonshare PvE Chronos and only for their alacrity. DPS mesmers in PvE literaly never summoned Phantasms. Ever. That's how badly they were all designed. You revert the phantasm damage to the way it was before and only have them attack once like you've suggested and you've essentially **deleted** the entire class's 4-5 skills on literally all our weapons. > > > > > > > > > > Some Phantasms are over tuned. But anything is going to be over tuned when Chronophantasma and Signet of the Ether multiplied their output by 4X. And balancing Phantasms to be balanced around this one trait and one heal skill would require phantasms being completely worthless for every spec not running them. It makes infintely more sense to have phantasms have predictable output and then balance them around that than letting one spec be the only one where one of our main class mechanics has any use. > > > > > > > > Yes i heard these arguments already and i don't think they are true. As far as i know the phantasm rework was done for PvE, so mesmers cannot just summon 3 perma phantams and autoattack through the bosses. Another reason for the rework was that mesmer should not decide between let phantasms live or shatter them. These decision gets already obsolete when phantasm turn into a clone after one attack. Mesmers class mechanic is shatter, a phantasm based spec should simply not exist. Phantasm are just other designed dmg skills and for that they all did enough dmg around 4-6k, pistol phantasm could even crit 9k, also sword phantasm was strong in dmg. Staff phantasm hit like a truck on power when the target had some conditions on (and the projectil wasn't too slow to hit). That sword or pistol didn't get used in PvP was not because they did too less dmg, it was becasue the weapan in general was not usefull because of for example too less defensive. When a phantasm did less dmg or could not easy hit the target (focus, torch) than because it was a defensive weapon. That was balanced from the dmg part also for only one attack. Phantasms don't need a buff when every shattermes shatter them after one attack anyway since gamerelease. Just give up the idea of a phantasm spec for mesmer, npc carried specs are just bad in PvP, see turret engi and minion master necro. Lucky these brainlesss builds are not viable anymore, don't ask for giving mesmer a new one. Phantasms shouldn't be more than a little addition to the shattermechanic and not a whole alternative mechanic. L2shatter not only random to clean the clones before 3 new will come from phantasm spam anyway... > > > > > > > > Return this broken mechanic except the turn into clone thing, let staff still beam instead of a slow projectil but make it to only one phantasm, also no 2 berserker trait for gs. > > > > Phantasms were never useless, they always made good dmg. The utility phantasms ofc needed a reword because perma effects make no sense anymore but sure not a rework giving them a 10k hit. > > > > > > > > Btw phantasm mirage is played with mirage heal and has no chronophantasm and is still broken too and will see a return the moment chrono is not just only more broken anymore. > > > > > > > > > > The rework was done because the developer team were not happpy with how phantasms performed in all areas of the game. Not just PvE. > > > > > > I don't think I've seen a the old Phantasm Mirage in PvP in platinum since Season 11 started. That last balance patch after their effortless 25 might stacking got nerfed almost all of the people running builds like that moved on to Chronobunker. I only see Greatsword Burst Mirages and Condimirages. > > > > > > You literally don't know what you're talking about. Maybe a Power Staff mesmer could get an 7K crit with the Staff Phantasm on something like a World Boss that has every single condition in the game, but they in absolutely no way ever were "Hitting like a truck." It was always far more beneficial to shatter them in opponent's faces as soon as possible before they did their attack animation and potentially got cleaved down. Power Staff was not a thing that ever existed in any serious capacity in any game mode in this entire game's life. Outside of a raid setting where you consistently have 100% Crit Chance and 25 Might Pistol Phantasms were never hitting for 4-6k. You entire post is full of completely wrong information. The only phantasm that was getting 4-6k damage in a PvP scenario was Sword Phantasm and you were never going to tag another player with that thing. > > > > > > The only phantasm that was could reliably hit enemies in PvP was the Greatsword Phantasm, which aside from Imagined Burden and Chronophantasma was buffed all that considerably. > > > > > > Post rework and free from the baggage of carrying the entire mesmer's DPS in PvE over the duration of a 5-10 minute fight, Phantasms are now just our 4-5 skills with Fancy delivery systems. They should be as impactful as any class's 4-5 skill. And aside from Disenchanter and Defender out performing and Chronophantasma that's about where all of the phantasms are. Heck Focus is severely weaker post rework. > > > > > > It's hilarious that you think that phantasms are similtanously too strong but a trait and heal skill that multiplied their damage output by 4X were not too strong and shouldn't be touched. > > > > I play mesmer myself often enough, just because it is not my main don't mean i have no clue. I dunno how you play, but ofc when you play with soldier gear because you instant dies otherwise than your phantasms don't hit for 6k xD My phantasms ever did on marauder or before marauder on berserker amulet. And the best phantasms in terms of dmg/hitchange where always pistolero, swordoffhand and gs berserker. Torch was equiped for the stealth and the revealburst and for condistacks and focus is a defensive weapon that is why the phantasm is not agile but hits very high when ppl stand in it. Sadly vashury deleted his videos, he made a video about staff power builds and the dmg it does when played correct. A Pistol/Swordoffhand phantasmbuild was very popular for a long time prehot in WvW. Stop chaotic mixing up PvE and PvP for your argumentation, that makes no sense. I only talk about PvP/WvW. I don't care when ppl are carried by npcs in PvE. I just told you what anet wrote in their patchnotes why they do the rework and the only thing they clearly said was, that they don't want mesmer having to decide between a phantasm playstyle and a shatterplaystyle anymore. So mesmer has only one mechanic like every other class and that is shatters! Phantasms are too strong in the moment they can create phantasmbased builds where shatters are just needed randomly spammed to clean the clones before 3 new will arrive from the phantasm spam. > > > > The trait and the signet were never too strong before the phantasm rework, the problem clearly is the new phantasm mechanic and not the trait/signet itself, they only have a good synergie to a broken mechanic, still only nerfing them will not totally fix the problem, it will only (maybe) fix chronomancer. The only reason phantasm mirage is not often played atm is, that chrono is just even more broken. > > The Trait and Signet were never too strong before because multiplying garbage still gave you garbage. Now since they've been reworked they're more in line with other class's 4-5 skills. And Multiplying any classes-4-5 skill 4x would be absurdly overpowered on almost every class and weapon kit. Just that i explained why phantasm never were garbage from the dmg part, means your argument is invalide. On a build that only has 2 phantasms, for example a berserker and a torch phantasm the heal would still not be op. In particular because one of the phantasms still has the weaponswap cd to prevent the mesmer from spamming both right after another again when used the heal. But add passive spam traits like in inspiration and utiliyphantasm with 10k hits then you get something spammable, oh wait, ofc only when you can have 100 phantasm because there is no limit for them anymore... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > We're splitting [signet of the Ether](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_the_Ether "Signet of the Ether") in the next release. (Scheduled for tomorrow, unless things go awry.) In PvP and WvW, Phantasm skills are recharged by 50% rather than 100%. 50% of the base recharge subtracted from the current recharge. If you have a 40 second phantasm that is on a 35 second recharge, it will change to a 15 second recharge. > > We know it won't get us all the way there on Mesmer balance, but more will come with the full balance release. > > Edit: Made explanation more clear. Out of curiosity, should not there be a major balance patch on May 8? Not saying by any means that this change is bad, just the timing only 2 weeks before a major balance patch seems off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperadordf.2687 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 > @"otto.5684" said: > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > We're splitting [signet of the Ether](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_the_Ether "Signet of the Ether") in the next release. (Scheduled for tomorrow, unless things go awry.) In PvP and WvW, Phantasm skills are recharged by 50% rather than 100%. 50% of the base recharge subtracted from the current recharge. If you have a 40 second phantasm that is on a 35 second recharge, it will change to a 15 second recharge. > > > > We know it won't get us all the way there on Mesmer balance, but more will come with the full balance release. > > > > Edit: Made explanation more clear. > > Out of curiosity, should not there be a major balance patch on May 8? Not saying by any means that this change is bad, just the timing only 2 weeks before a major balance patch seems off. It was a hotfix to Chrono because it was incredibly powerful. P.S. It still is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragontree.8092 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 This small nerf may help a little but as a mesmer main, signet of the ether is not the problem. I stopped using it when it got nerfed last year (or was it the previous year?) and my mes is still overpowered. Anet really needs to listen to those who main the class and tell us the proposed changes ahead of time allowing us to provide feedback and taking that into consideration before going ahead with nerfs. In otherwords, read the mesmer forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 > @"dragontree.8092" said: > This small nerf may help a little but as a mesmer main, signet of the ether is not the problem. I stopped using it when it got nerfed last year (or was it the previous year?) and my mes is still overpowered. Anet really needs to listen to those who main the class and tell us the proposed changes ahead of time allowing us to provide feedback and taking that into consideration before going ahead with nerfs. In otherwords, read the mesmer forums. Signet of the Ether, Chronophantasma and Disenchanter+Defender being overtuned is like 90% of the problem. The only build that used Signet of the Ether in Spvp was the Chrono Bunker built around abusing phantasms as much as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 > @"RabbitUp.8294" said: > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > > > We're splitting [signet of the Ether](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_the_Ether "Signet of the Ether") in the next release. (Scheduled for tomorrow, unless things go awry.) In PvP and WvW, Phantasm skills are recharged by 50% rather than 100%. 50% of the base recharge subtracted from the current recharge. If you have a 40 second phantasm that is on a 35 second recharge, it will change to a 15 second recharge. > > > > > > > > > > We know it won't get us all the way there on Mesmer balance, but more will come with the full balance release. > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Made explanation more clear. > > > > > > > > First, I really hope that isn't the biggest nerf you guys have in store. > > > > > > > > Second. Please for the love of joko look through the mesmer forums for suggestions on what to nerf. The last several balance patches you guys have completely ignored us when we told you what was overpowered and needed to be nerfed, and look where we are at now with mesmer. > > > > > > > > Third, please strongly consider putting up a list of the proposed mesmer nerfs at least one month in advance so you can get feedback on it, and then actually have time to act on that feedback, and get a second round of feedback, and act on that round too, before the changes are finalized. > > > > > > Objective and unbiased feedback?....that's a big promise, too big for a single individual to make > > > > Never used the words objective and unbiased, but thanks for putting words in my mouth. > > > > Besides, it was mesmer mains who were telling ANet that kitten would be broken beyond belief before it was even introduced, back to before PoF launched. If they had listened to us, mesmer wouldn't be nearly as strong as it is right now. With everyone else crying about phantasm caps, it was mesmer mains who were pointing out that SotE and CP were the reason so many phantasms could be summoned in the first place. It was mesmer mains who were giving ideas as to how to address these issues, not you guys. > > It was mesmer mains that were saying mirage is a failed spec and would suck at everything and it was mesmer mains that were lamenting the phantasm rework, saying that it would nerf and destroy the class. > > Don't act like there's a single shared opinion among mesmer mains. Actually I was one of the only people in the mesmer forum saying mirage was really strong for power specs as elusive mind with jaunt meant you didn’t need any condition cleanses which was huge for power builds. This meant you could go all damage, put everything else into dodge regen and completely abuse mirage thrust for mobility. Mind you I honestly thought they would remove stunbreak on dodge after the beta but jokes on me I guess, such an obviously overpowered thing clearly flew under the radar at ANet and judging by almost no one highlighting it after PoF launch most people were too caught up hating on scourges. Guess what? I was laughed at by most. I might have a dig around the archive as it won’t be hard to find. Edit: here we go https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/What-Mirrage-is There was also a rather nice one from Frostball saying mirage isn’t as weak as people think, while he was right he was right for the wrong reasons as mirage would burst conditions on people and they would just melt to confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"RabbitUp.8294" said: > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > > > > We're splitting [signet of the Ether](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_the_Ether "Signet of the Ether") in the next release. (Scheduled for tomorrow, unless things go awry.) In PvP and WvW, Phantasm skills are recharged by 50% rather than 100%. 50% of the base recharge subtracted from the current recharge. If you have a 40 second phantasm that is on a 35 second recharge, it will change to a 15 second recharge. > > > > > > > > > > > > We know it won't get us all the way there on Mesmer balance, but more will come with the full balance release. > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Made explanation more clear. > > > > > > > > > > First, I really hope that isn't the biggest nerf you guys have in store. > > > > > > > > > > Second. Please for the love of joko look through the mesmer forums for suggestions on what to nerf. The last several balance patches you guys have completely ignored us when we told you what was overpowered and needed to be nerfed, and look where we are at now with mesmer. > > > > > > > > > > Third, please strongly consider putting up a list of the proposed mesmer nerfs at least one month in advance so you can get feedback on it, and then actually have time to act on that feedback, and get a second round of feedback, and act on that round too, before the changes are finalized. > > > > > > > > Objective and unbiased feedback?....that's a big promise, too big for a single individual to make > > > > > > Never used the words objective and unbiased, but thanks for putting words in my mouth. > > > > > > Besides, it was mesmer mains who were telling ANet that kitten would be broken beyond belief before it was even introduced, back to before PoF launched. If they had listened to us, mesmer wouldn't be nearly as strong as it is right now. With everyone else crying about phantasm caps, it was mesmer mains who were pointing out that SotE and CP were the reason so many phantasms could be summoned in the first place. It was mesmer mains who were giving ideas as to how to address these issues, not you guys. > > > > It was mesmer mains that were saying mirage is a failed spec and would suck at everything and it was mesmer mains that were lamenting the phantasm rework, saying that it would nerf and destroy the class. > > > > Don't act like there's a single shared opinion among mesmer mains. > > Actually I was one of the only people in the mesmer forum saying mirage was really strong for power specs as elusive mind with jaunt meant you didn’t need any condition cleanses which was huge for power builds. This meant you could go all damage, put everything else into dodge regen and completely abuse mirage thrust for mobility. Mind you I honestly thought they would remove stunbreak on dodge after the beta but jokes on me I guess, such an obviously overpowered thing clearly flew under the radar at ANet and judging by almost no one highlighting it after PoF launch most people were too caught up hating on scourges. > > Guess what? I was laughed at by most. I might have a dig around the archive as it won’t be hard to find. Mirage was absolutely undertuned during the demo weekend. Yeah it had potential, and Elusive mind was clearly insanity. But aside from Sword's leap all of the ambush skills were terrible, Axe was terrible and most of the traits were not very good except Elusive Mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > @"RabbitUp.8294" said: > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > > > > > We're splitting [signet of the Ether](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_the_Ether "Signet of the Ether") in the next release. (Scheduled for tomorrow, unless things go awry.) In PvP and WvW, Phantasm skills are recharged by 50% rather than 100%. 50% of the base recharge subtracted from the current recharge. If you have a 40 second phantasm that is on a 35 second recharge, it will change to a 15 second recharge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We know it won't get us all the way there on Mesmer balance, but more will come with the full balance release. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Made explanation more clear. > > > > > > > > > > > > First, I really hope that isn't the biggest nerf you guys have in store. > > > > > > > > > > > > Second. Please for the love of joko look through the mesmer forums for suggestions on what to nerf. The last several balance patches you guys have completely ignored us when we told you what was overpowered and needed to be nerfed, and look where we are at now with mesmer. > > > > > > > > > > > > Third, please strongly consider putting up a list of the proposed mesmer nerfs at least one month in advance so you can get feedback on it, and then actually have time to act on that feedback, and get a second round of feedback, and act on that round too, before the changes are finalized. > > > > > > > > > > Objective and unbiased feedback?....that's a big promise, too big for a single individual to make > > > > > > > > Never used the words objective and unbiased, but thanks for putting words in my mouth. > > > > > > > > Besides, it was mesmer mains who were telling ANet that kitten would be broken beyond belief before it was even introduced, back to before PoF launched. If they had listened to us, mesmer wouldn't be nearly as strong as it is right now. With everyone else crying about phantasm caps, it was mesmer mains who were pointing out that SotE and CP were the reason so many phantasms could be summoned in the first place. It was mesmer mains who were giving ideas as to how to address these issues, not you guys. > > > > > > It was mesmer mains that were saying mirage is a failed spec and would suck at everything and it was mesmer mains that were lamenting the phantasm rework, saying that it would nerf and destroy the class. > > > > > > Don't act like there's a single shared opinion among mesmer mains. > > > > Actually I was one of the only people in the mesmer forum saying mirage was really strong for power specs as elusive mind with jaunt meant you didn’t need any condition cleanses which was huge for power builds. This meant you could go all damage, put everything else into dodge regen and completely abuse mirage thrust for mobility. Mind you I honestly thought they would remove stunbreak on dodge after the beta but jokes on me I guess, such an obviously overpowered thing clearly flew under the radar at ANet and judging by almost no one highlighting it after PoF launch most people were too caught up hating on scourges. > > > > Guess what? I was laughed at by most. I might have a dig around the archive as it won’t be hard to find. > > Mirage was absolutely undertuned during the demo weekend. Yeah it had potential, and Elusive mind was clearly insanity. But aside from Sword's leap all of the ambush skills were terrible, Axe was terrible and most of the traits were not very good except Elusive Mind. Everything that is broken on mirage now was in the demo weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > @"RabbitUp.8294" said: > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said: > > > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > > > > > > We're splitting [signet of the Ether](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_the_Ether "Signet of the Ether") in the next release. (Scheduled for tomorrow, unless things go awry.) In PvP and WvW, Phantasm skills are recharged by 50% rather than 100%. 50% of the base recharge subtracted from the current recharge. If you have a 40 second phantasm that is on a 35 second recharge, it will change to a 15 second recharge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We know it won't get us all the way there on Mesmer balance, but more will come with the full balance release. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Made explanation more clear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, I really hope that isn't the biggest nerf you guys have in store. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Second. Please for the love of joko look through the mesmer forums for suggestions on what to nerf. The last several balance patches you guys have completely ignored us when we told you what was overpowered and needed to be nerfed, and look where we are at now with mesmer. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Third, please strongly consider putting up a list of the proposed mesmer nerfs at least one month in advance so you can get feedback on it, and then actually have time to act on that feedback, and get a second round of feedback, and act on that round too, before the changes are finalized. > > > > > > > > > > > > Objective and unbiased feedback?....that's a big promise, too big for a single individual to make > > > > > > > > > > Never used the words objective and unbiased, but thanks for putting words in my mouth. > > > > > > > > > > Besides, it was mesmer mains who were telling ANet that kitten would be broken beyond belief before it was even introduced, back to before PoF launched. If they had listened to us, mesmer wouldn't be nearly as strong as it is right now. With everyone else crying about phantasm caps, it was mesmer mains who were pointing out that SotE and CP were the reason so many phantasms could be summoned in the first place. It was mesmer mains who were giving ideas as to how to address these issues, not you guys. > > > > > > > > It was mesmer mains that were saying mirage is a failed spec and would suck at everything and it was mesmer mains that were lamenting the phantasm rework, saying that it would nerf and destroy the class. > > > > > > > > Don't act like there's a single shared opinion among mesmer mains. > > > > > > Actually I was one of the only people in the mesmer forum saying mirage was really strong for power specs as elusive mind with jaunt meant you didn’t need any condition cleanses which was huge for power builds. This meant you could go all damage, put everything else into dodge regen and completely abuse mirage thrust for mobility. Mind you I honestly thought they would remove stunbreak on dodge after the beta but jokes on me I guess, such an obviously overpowered thing clearly flew under the radar at ANet and judging by almost no one highlighting it after PoF launch most people were too caught up hating on scourges. > > > > > > Guess what? I was laughed at by most. I might have a dig around the archive as it won’t be hard to find. > > > > Mirage was absolutely undertuned during the demo weekend. Yeah it had potential, and Elusive mind was clearly insanity. But aside from Sword's leap all of the ambush skills were terrible, Axe was terrible and most of the traits were not very good except Elusive Mind. > > Everything that is broken on mirage now was in the demo weekend. Literally everything got buffed except Elusive Mind. Immensely. From Self Deception to Riddle of Sand to Desert Distortion to the trait that gives vigor, Miragr Cloak itself and most importantly Ineptitude was justadded to the game on the demo weekend and no one realized how stupid good it was. Even the torch trait in Illusions got buffed. Elusive Mind was godly, Jaunt and Sword Leap were underestimated, but the foundation of the elite spec was terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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