More Condi in WvW

[Magnuzone.8395]

It sure isn't very fun in WvW anymore. I still try to log in from time to time, but not very often anymore.

[Blodeuyn.2751]

> @babazhook.6805 said:

> I find Conditions EASIER to handle in small scale and roaming. I play thief for the most part and really do not find many condition builds I can not handle WHEN I spec for condition cleanse. There is more then enough damage generated by my thief to take down enemies in DIRE without having to resort to using Fire and Air sigils which I encounter on virtually every power build I meet.

>

> I especially like to see a burn of 3k applied to me suddenly end up on my enemy because of the Generosity sigil and do not find it any more skillful to use p/p unload for power or a shadowhot off d/p for a 6k hit. I also fail to understand how anything a condition build does is defined as spam wherein power builds are "spamming" buttons and dodges and attacks just as frequently.

>

> I play 80 percent power builds but can not take many of these complaints about Conditions seriously when the people in making their points against them have one set of rules for Conditions and another for power.

>

> Both types of builds resort to spam. Both types of damage sources can be blocked or dodged or evaded. Both of them have AOE type attacks that can be dropped in an area to do damage without directly targeting an enemy.

>

> This remains a simple fact and I do not have to read a thread to prove it to myself. When I take a build into WvW specced for condition cleanses and anticipating condition builds it does orders of magnitude better then does one of my builds using the same profession that is not specced for more cleanses. When I decided to practice on one of my power thiefs that uses just Trickster to cleanse conditions along with tricks and sigils so as to learn better how to AVOID condition damage applications in the first place , I got better at avoiding the same across the board. This hardly means I win every fight and do not suffer my shar eof losses, nor does it mean I consider myself an elite player or better then everyone else. I am just saying I have demonstrated to myself that the individual player can do a lot more to mitigate condition damage than what is being implied in virtually every one of these threads.

>

> Once more there may be certain specs that are overtuned. Once more this does not mean a problem with "conditions" that is game wide.

>

>

 

If we all played thieves like you then maybe it wouldn't be as big an issue, but we don't. Just because you are successful at handling condi on a thief doesn't mean there is no larger condi issue. Please do read these posts, I think you're missing some good examples on how condi is broken. :)

 

That's not to say that there isn't room for individual improvement, but condi posts keep appearing because there is problem.

 

Edit: I use to think condi was a "me" problem, that I just wasn't good. I've made adjustments, practiced, and did the proverbial math. In the end it doesn't boil down to my skills or lack thereof. Certainly at one point I was new and learning wvw, but now I'm 5 years in and have seen way too much to ignore condi as a real problem.

 

Maybe a better way to put it is that balance is a real problem.

[DevilishLyx.2340]

8 out of 10 players who voted in the poll want the condi nerfed.

This thread already has 6 pages of posts.

Not a single red post!

[XenesisII.1540]

Conditions are fine, just learn to blast light fields.

[Shroud.2307]

> @"Sethanon Stormrage.6721" said:

> > @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

> > The amount of people that refuse to learn or improve in these constant threads since the release of this game is astounding. If people can't have their instant gratification, they band together and pretend to speak for everyone like they're the savior we've all been asking for.

> >

> > You can preach your complaints and write a bible about the purity of Power damage but the only person you're convincing is yourself and anyone else who's too narrow minded to read beyond their own short comings.

> >

>

> I've just taken down the inner wall of bay. I want to push in with my group but the choke is filled with aoe and boon strips. The enemy blob just standing there spamming the choke.

>

> Pre boon hate i could push that with cleanses. Now with boon hate. It's constant cc and Condi spam. Can't pop stab nor resistance.

>

> What would you do there? Go on.. educate me.

>

> Sure boon hate is as much to blame as Condi. But they can't turn around and nerf a new elite just in the game. So condis need to be the target.

>

> If it was power I can build to tank that and have the utilities to make the push. I can't keep up with the Condi spam no matter how many cleanses we build for.

>

 

Not pushing it would be a good start.

 

The boon hate just means people are going to have to get smarter. You can't deathball everything anymore which means you'll have to kite, bait and think.

 

I do agree that the amount of boonstrips that are currently floating around in zergs make conditions significantly more threatening but I don't think it's something that needs to be fixed.

 

I spent most of last night watching guilds pushing in to each other and dying because they weren't adjusting their strategies. They were practicing, but they weren't adapting.

 

I don't know what the answer is to this current situation but I can say for certain that brute force is no longer the solution. Breaking in to smaller groups of 5 - 15 during large scale fights may be what needs to be done, maybe not. The real problem is that people are lazy and would much rather megablob everything and mash all their skills while being practically invulnerable to damage 70% of the time.

 

I'm sorry but although I do see that the current state of boonstrips and conditions is chaotic, I don't think it's game breaking. It just means a new era of combat is on the rise and those who cling to the past will be the ones left behind. Everything can be conquered with perseverance and evolution.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

> @Aeolus.3615 said:

> > @GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

> > > @Inoki.6048 said:

> > > The amount of condi is ridiculous. Just terrible. Condi is supposed to weaken, not insta-kill like a D/P thief.

> >

> > Wut? No one likes to be insta-killed... ._.

>

> Actually ANet stated condis were seted to be equal (maybe better) to power, conditions being used for pressure and weaken is a thing from gw1, on gw2 u need to be carried or children cry if they need to make effort on offensive.

>

> If balance was the only problem..... ANet have made the game with so bright stuff and the spam make players need to play with sunglasses.... *lots of visual polution*

> Mostly WvW fights are a white light on the screen from minimal settings to max settings...

 

Yep. In Gw1 that was intentional so degen could be spread across targets. In Gw2, the pve targets get narrowed down to one big damage sponge, and furthermore they made condi have it's own stat. They probably should have just base-lined condi damage so they could fix the power...power creep that necessitates percent damage reduction over toughness. That then pushes people to use condi damage to by pass that damage reduction...fuqqing rabbit holes.

 

Effect LoD somewhat curbs the effect spam. The dark swirlies (wells) are the ones you want to dodge. The rest of the red circles you can eat...maybe. PoF added more stuff of course. Joy.

[TyPin.9860]

> @Swamurabi.7890 said:

> > @TyPin.9860 said:

> > > @Swamurabi.7890 said:

> > > > @Hana.8143 said:

> > > > >@Swamurabi.7890 said:

> > > > > Boons + Condis = LAG

> > > >

> > > > Me in 2015 : We need less conditions cause it's killing WvW.

> > > > Developer : Hold my beer, and also, NO.

> > > > Me in 2017 : We need less conditions cause WvW is dead.

> > >

> > > I wonder when the first group comp calls for cleanse 1, cleanse 2 and cleanse 3

> >

> > What would be wrong with that?

>

> When each 5 player squad is made up of 3 of the same class, that's a problem

 

That wouldn't be necessary only to have multiple AoE condi cleanses. On the top of my head are Mesmers, Guardians, Warriors and even Reapers with trooper rune to have AoE condie cleanses ...

[TyPin.9860]

> @"Sethanon Stormrage.6721" said:

> I understand all you people saying you dont struggle with condi on x spec when roaming and that's great but id like to point out that as is often stated... WvWvW is not balanced around solo or small scale combat.. it's supposed to be balanced around large scale. That's why the main point of this thread is focused on how op condis are in large scale fights. And why ideas to solve the issue for large scale combat is required.

 

I hear this claim a lot. Can you point to a statement of Anet, where they actually state that WvW is supposed to be balanced like that? I don't mean that in a condescending way, I really do not know of such a statement.

 

For me WvW was always an unbalanced Server vs Server kind of deal. I do not often roll with a zerg, but when I do, I do it on Reaper (did not really try out the scourge as of yet) and I don't feel that conditions are actually that much of an issue there. I can cleanse, my allies can cleanse and dealing with conditions isn't any harder than to deal with getting smacked in the face by a power melee train, when I am not really paying attention.

[babazhook.6805]

While it understood many do not want to CHAT with a player then encounter in WvW due to all the QQ that goes on there, I have engaged in such chats when I encountered builds that easily dealt with my own condition build on other classes (Yes I play Condition builds too. I do not pretend I am better because "I only play SKILLED power builds")> @Blodeuyn.2751 said:

> > @babazhook.6805 said:

> > I find Conditions EASIER to handle in small scale and roaming. I play thief for the most part and really do not find many condition builds I can not handle WHEN I spec for condition cleanse. There is more then enough damage generated by my thief to take down enemies in DIRE without having to resort to using Fire and Air sigils which I encounter on virtually every power build I meet.

> >

> > I especially like to see a burn of 3k applied to me suddenly end up on my enemy because of the Generosity sigil and do not find it any more skillful to use p/p unload for power or a shadowhot off d/p for a 6k hit. I also fail to understand how anything a condition build does is defined as spam wherein power builds are "spamming" buttons and dodges and attacks just as frequently.

> >

> > I play 80 percent power builds but can not take many of these complaints about Conditions seriously when the people in making their points against them have one set of rules for Conditions and another for power.

> >

> > Both types of builds resort to spam. Both types of damage sources can be blocked or dodged or evaded. Both of them have AOE type attacks that can be dropped in an area to do damage without directly targeting an enemy.

> >

> > This remains a simple fact and I do not have to read a thread to prove it to myself. When I take a build into WvW specced for condition cleanses and anticipating condition builds it does orders of magnitude better then does one of my builds using the same profession that is not specced for more cleanses. When I decided to practice on one of my power thiefs that uses just Trickster to cleanse conditions along with tricks and sigils so as to learn better how to AVOID condition damage applications in the first place , I got better at avoiding the same across the board. This hardly means I win every fight and do not suffer my shar eof losses, nor does it mean I consider myself an elite player or better then everyone else. I am just saying I have demonstrated to myself that the individual player can do a lot more to mitigate condition damage than what is being implied in virtually every one of these threads.

> >

> > Once more there may be certain specs that are overtuned. Once more this does not mean a problem with "conditions" that is game wide.

> >

> >

>

> If we all played thieves like you then maybe it wouldn't be as big an issue, but we don't. Just because you are successful at handling condi on a thief doesn't mean there is no larger condi issue. Please do read these posts, I think you're missing some good examples on how condi is broken. :)

>

> That's not to say that there isn't room for individual improvement, but condi posts keep appearing because there is problem.

>

> Edit: I use to think condi was a "me" problem, that I just wasn't good. I've made adjustments, practiced, and did the proverbial math. In the end it doesn't boil down to my skills or lack thereof. Certainly at one point I was new and learning wvw, but now I'm 5 years in and have seen way too much to ignore condi as a real problem.

>

> Maybe a better way to put it is that balance is a real problem.

 

This would hold true if I were not playing other builds as well or if I did not face builds of other professions on an ongoing basis and seeing how those persons deal with conditions.

 

Unlike some few , I have no problems playing Condition builds. I much prefer power or even hybrid but will switch to condition builds as well. In so doing I also tend to roam or fight small scale more often than not and encounter a wide variety of builds. Where I LEARN the most is not when I take my condition build in and wreck an opponent. It when I meet an opponent who easily deals with the conditions I deal out and wrecks me. Very often IF they are willing I will try and engage them in Chat to see what it is in their builds that allows them to do so well.

 

It is not just Thieves able to do this. Elementalists, mesmers, Necroes, Guardians and Druids all have builds I have encountered that are difficult to break down with conditions. If they do not engage in chat I will go through My logs and go to the build editor and try and figure out how they are doing it.

 

Sometimes all that is needed to prevail against them is a change in tactics. Other times I recognize that due to the nature of the build and how they use their cleanses it going to be a long hard fight. Sometimes I can win. Sometimes I lose. The point is this. If Conditions were universally overpowered as is being claimed, I would NOT see this variance.

 

To the point made on the number of condition posts made when it comes to Conditions and whether they are overpowered. I would NOT have so much a problem with this were the people making these posts not resorting to hyberbole or referring to said builds as "cancers" or "braindead". For every well reasoned post as to why there a problem with conditions (and yes I agree there are overtuned skills and I have made suggestions as to how to address these) there are 10 and more chiming in that have a bias againt condition builds in general and seem to just want to be heard because they consider themselves as "skilled players" having to deal with "braindead builds".

 

When this happens it hard to sort out the wheat from the chaff and it difficult that the sheer number of such posts as being relevant.

 

A few nights back I was marked by a power thief while on one of mine. I did what I thought was enough to get out of the area as I could not locate the source of the same and was looking at the map when I was taken down by a single shot from Deaths Judgement. No Condition build I have encountered in the past few weeks has ever taken me down as quickly but it hardly follows that if 20 and more people start a thread on "being one shot killed" that there suddenly an issue with "power builds". The new reality is that there a whole lot of damage out there be it power or condition and there going to be another learning process trying to see how it is that I can best deal with them.

 

If no matter what I do and no matter how I design or build my given character makes no difference , then I will entertain the possibility there a "gamewide" problem with Condtions OR Power. I am not there yet.

[Lionwait.4815]

I voted not to nerf. I believe we just need balance on necro's

[Blodeuyn.2751]

> @babazhook.6805 said:

> While it understood many do not want to CHAT with a player then encounter in WvW due to all the QQ that goes on there, I have engaged in such chats when I encountered builds that easily dealt with my own condition build on other classes (Yes I play Condition builds too. I do not pretend I am better because "I only play SKILLED power builds")> @Blodeuyn.2751 said:

> > > @babazhook.6805 said:

> > > I find Conditions EASIER to handle in small scale and roaming. I play thief for the most part and really do not find many condition builds I can not handle WHEN I spec for condition cleanse. There is more then enough damage generated by my thief to take down enemies in DIRE without having to resort to using Fire and Air sigils which I encounter on virtually every power build I meet.

> > >

> > > I especially like to see a burn of 3k applied to me suddenly end up on my enemy because of the Generosity sigil and do not find it any more skillful to use p/p unload for power or a shadowhot off d/p for a 6k hit. I also fail to understand how anything a condition build does is defined as spam wherein power builds are "spamming" buttons and dodges and attacks just as frequently.

> > >

> > > I play 80 percent power builds but can not take many of these complaints about Conditions seriously when the people in making their points against them have one set of rules for Conditions and another for power.

> > >

> > > Both types of builds resort to spam. Both types of damage sources can be blocked or dodged or evaded. Both of them have AOE type attacks that can be dropped in an area to do damage without directly targeting an enemy.

> > >

> > > This remains a simple fact and I do not have to read a thread to prove it to myself. When I take a build into WvW specced for condition cleanses and anticipating condition builds it does orders of magnitude better then does one of my builds using the same profession that is not specced for more cleanses. When I decided to practice on one of my power thiefs that uses just Trickster to cleanse conditions along with tricks and sigils so as to learn better how to AVOID condition damage applications in the first place , I got better at avoiding the same across the board. This hardly means I win every fight and do not suffer my shar eof losses, nor does it mean I consider myself an elite player or better then everyone else. I am just saying I have demonstrated to myself that the individual player can do a lot more to mitigate condition damage than what is being implied in virtually every one of these threads.

> > >

> > > Once more there may be certain specs that are overtuned. Once more this does not mean a problem with "conditions" that is game wide.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > If we all played thieves like you then maybe it wouldn't be as big an issue, but we don't. Just because you are successful at handling condi on a thief doesn't mean there is no larger condi issue. Please do read these posts, I think you're missing some good examples on how condi is broken. :)

> >

> > That's not to say that there isn't room for individual improvement, but condi posts keep appearing because there is problem.

> >

> > Edit: I use to think condi was a "me" problem, that I just wasn't good. I've made adjustments, practiced, and did the proverbial math. In the end it doesn't boil down to my skills or lack thereof. Certainly at one point I was new and learning wvw, but now I'm 5 years in and have seen way too much to ignore condi as a real problem.

> >

> > Maybe a better way to put it is that balance is a real problem.

>

> This would hold true if I were not playing other builds as well or if I did not face builds of other professions on an ongoing basis and seeing how those persons deal with conditions.

>

> Unlike some few , I have no problems playing Condition builds. I much prefer power or even hybrid but will switch to condition builds as well. In so doing I also tend to roam or fight small scale more often than not and encounter a wide variety of builds. Where I LEARN the most is not when I take my condition build in and wreck an opponent. It when I meet an opponent who easily deals with the conditions I deal out and wrecks me. Very often IF they are willing I will try and engage them in Chat to see what it is in their builds that allows them to do so well.

>

> It is not just Thieves able to do this. Elementalists, mesmers, Necroes, Guardians and Druids all have builds I have encountered that are difficult to break down with conditions. If they do not engage in chat I will go through My logs and go to the build editor and try and figure out how they are doing it.

>

> Sometimes all that is needed to prevail against them is a change in tactics. Other times I recognize that due to the nature of the build and how they use their cleanses it going to be a long hard fight. Sometimes I can win. Sometimes I lose. The point is this. If Conditions were universally overpowered as is being claimed, I would NOT see this variance.

>

> To the point made on the number of condition posts made when it comes to Conditions and whether they are overpowered. I would NOT have so much a problem with this were the people making these posts not resorting to hyberbole or referring to said builds as "cancers" or "braindead". For every well reasoned post as to why there a problem with conditions (and yes I agree there are overtuned skills and I have made suggestions as to how to address these) there are 10 and more chiming in that have a bias againt condition builds in general and seem to just want to be heard because they consider themselves as "skilled players" having to deal with "braindead builds".

>

> When this happens it hard to sort out the wheat from the chaff and it difficult that the sheer number of such posts as being relevant.

>

> A few nights back I was marked by a power thief while on one of mine. I did what I thought was enough to get out of the area as I could not locate the source of the same and was looking at the map when I was taken down by a single shot from Deaths Judgement. No Condition build I have encountered in the past few weeks has ever taken me down as quickly but it hardly follows that if 20 and more people start a thread on "being one shot killed" that there suddenly an issue with "power builds". The new reality is that there a whole lot of damage out there be it power or condition and there going to be another learning process trying to see how it is that I can best deal with them.

>

> If no matter what I do and no matter how I design or build my given character makes no difference , then I will entertain the possibility there a "gamewide" problem with Condtions OR Power. I am not there yet.

 

Not sure what to say, I'm there already.

[Shroud.2307]

> @Phantom.5389 said:

> -snip-

 

WvW is _full_ of terrible players. Most of which come here to make their complaints without any real understanding of mechanics or balance and refuse to learn when they're given legitimate answers.

 

I could make a video of me using my full glass Soulbeast killing people in _half_ the time it takes you in that video. Not because I'm good. But because most people are awful and are too slow to react to attacks that can literally cut their health clean in half.

 

Have you heard of "Reckless Dodge" by the way? It's a minor trait in the Strength tree for Warrior. It can crit upwards of 8k with enough stacks of Might. That means you could be holding Fireworks and 3 - 4 shotting people by dodging near them. Guess Berserker gear needs to be removed and Power damage needs to be nerfed across all professions, right?

[Scorci.3250]

the biggest problem with conditions is the lack of active mitigation of condition damage vs. power damage and the methods of doing so. with conditions it's either straight condition removal or resistance uptime. condi removal has an element of RNG with what exactly is being removed along with the rate of reapplication of harmful condis compared to condi removal cooldowns, and resistance's ability to be corrupted/removed.

 

power damage on the other hand is mitigated actively in more ways by the different classes, whether it be blocks (aegis, ability based blocks), total immunity that is not able to be corrupted (this applies to some classes and condition damage, but at the same time most of these immunities lock down skill usage allowing less counter play until the invuln is gone) and evades like blur.

 

in an optimal power vs. power fight damage avoidance is going to go through a very basic series somewhat like this:

player 1 does damage> player 2 is at a disadvantage and uses a cooldown > player 2 counters and forces player 1 to either keep up the pressure through more damage/cc or to use a cooldown themselves. there are various counterplays to each power reduction cooldown such as unblockable attacks, but in the case of invulns the basic premise is to wait out the timer with no way to actually remove the immunity or damage through it.

 

now take an optimal power vs. condi fight at its basics:

player 1 does damage > player 2 is at a disadvantage and uses a cooldown > player 2 counters with their condition burst and forces player 1 to either reduce damage through condi removal or resistance.

 

at this point is where the problem with the lack of active mitigation lies with condition damage. starting with resistance, it's complete condition invulnerability, **but at the same time does not remove current conditions on you or make you immune to more incoming conditions being applied to you**. compared to complete power damage immunity where the timer has to be waited out, resistance has the combo of condis being applied even in the case of complete damage immunity and being vulnerable to boon removal. once condis are on you and resistance immunity is exhausted, your only choice of counterplay becomes removal. there is no evading/blocking existing conditions as a counterplay.

[babazhook.6805]

> @Scorci.3250 said:

> the biggest problem with conditions is the lack of active mitigation of condition damage vs. power damage and the methods of doing so. with conditions it's either straight condition removal or resistance uptime. condi removal has an element of RNG with what exactly is being removed along with the rate of reapplication of harmful condis compared to condi removal cooldowns, and resistance's ability to be corrupted/removed.

>

> power damage on the other hand is mitigated actively in more ways by the different classes, whether it be blocks (aegis, ability based blocks), total immunity that is not able to be corrupted (this applies to some classes and condition damage, but at the same time most of these immunities lock down skill usage allowing less counter play until the invuln is gone) and evades like blur.

>

> in an optimal power vs. power fight damage avoidance is going to go through a very basic series somewhat like this:

> player 1 does damage> player 2 is at a disadvantage and uses a cooldown > player 2 counters and forces player 1 to either keep up the pressure through more damage/cc or to use a cooldown themselves. there are various counterplays to each power reduction cooldown such as unblockable attacks, but in the case of invulns the basic premise is to wait out the timer with no way to actually remove the immunity or damage through it.

>

> now take an optimal power vs. condi fight at its basics:

> player 1 does damage > player 2 is at a disadvantage and uses a cooldown > player 2 counters with their condition burst and forces player 1 to either reduce damage through condi removal or resistance.

>

> at this point is where the problem with the lack of active mitigation lies with condition damage. starting with resistance, it's complete condition invulnerability, **but at the same time does not remove current conditions on you or make you immune to more incoming conditions being applied to you**. compared to complete power damage immunity where the timer has to be waited out, resistance has the combo of condis being applied even in the case of complete damage immunity and being vulnerable to boon removal. once condis are on you and resistance immunity is exhausted, your only choice of counterplay becomes removal. there is no evading/blocking existing conditions as a counterplay.

 

Again you can block and evade Conditions ACTIVELY. Resistnce is not blocking conditions.

 

Deathblossom as example is an active application of 3 bleeds. You can BLOCK or dodge dethblossom. If you wait for it to be applied then you have the 3 bleeds on you. This is no different then allowing heeartseeker to get through. Once it on you it is on you . Power is over and done. Conditions you have a second chance to mitigate.

 

[reikken.4961]

Wait, where's the poll option for more condi?

[Jana.6831]

> @babazhook.6805 said:

> Again you can block and evade Conditions ACTIVELY. Resistnce is not blocking conditions.

>

> Deathblossom as example is an active application of 3 bleeds. You can BLOCK or dodge dethblossom. If you wait for it to be applied then you have the 3 bleeds on you. This is no different then allowing heeartseeker to get through. Once it on you it is on you . Power is over and done. Conditions you have a second chance to mitigate.

 

How about this? Just an example where your 'just evade' doesn't fit.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_Perplexity

and this:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_Tormenting

 

And I guess if I look up every condi rune it will also be a passively applied condition.

 

 

[Jana.6831]

> @reikken.4961 said:

> Wait, where's the poll option for more condi?

 

Just make a poll: "I want to log in, get all rewards I would get for ~3 hours game play and log off"

[babazhook.6805]

> @Jana.6831 said:

> > @babazhook.6805 said:

> > Again you can block and evade Conditions ACTIVELY. Resistnce is not blocking conditions.

> >

> > Deathblossom as example is an active application of 3 bleeds. You can BLOCK or dodge dethblossom. If you wait for it to be applied then you have the 3 bleeds on you. This is no different then allowing heeartseeker to get through. Once it on you it is on you . Power is over and done. Conditions you have a second chance to mitigate.

>

> How about this? Just an example where your 'just evade' doesn't fit.

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_Perplexity

> and this:

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_Tormenting

>

> And I guess if I look up every condi rune it will also be a passively applied condition.

>

>

 

There are > @Jana.6831 said:

> > @babazhook.6805 said:

> > Again you can block and evade Conditions ACTIVELY. Resistnce is not blocking conditions.

> >

> > Deathblossom as example is an active application of 3 bleeds. You can BLOCK or dodge dethblossom. If you wait for it to be applied then you have the 3 bleeds on you. This is no different then allowing heeartseeker to get through. Once it on you it is on you . Power is over and done. Conditions you have a second chance to mitigate.

>

> How about this? Just an example where your 'just evade' doesn't fit.

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_Perplexity

> and this:

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_Tormenting

>

> And I guess if I look up every condi rune it will also be a passively applied condition.

>

>

 

You do not have to nor should you expect to evde every attack. It not like everyone uses rune of perplexity. 3 stacks of confusion every 25 seconds based on a RNG is not going to kill anyone, anymore then Retaliation should (which can not be evaded either and is not coming froma rune).

 

There runes that do things like Summon bombs as well or get you a parrot or rock dog or increase your physical damage by percentages, These passive apps are not all condition only.

[Scorci.3250]

> @babazhook.6805 said:

> Again you can block and evade Conditions ACTIVELY. Resistnce is not blocking conditions.

>

> Deathblossom as example is an active application of 3 bleeds. You can BLOCK or dodge dethblossom. If you wait for it to be applied then you have the 3 bleeds on you. This is no different then allowing heeartseeker to get through. Once it on you it is on you . Power is over and done. Conditions you have a second chance to mitigate.

>

 

of course you can block and evade condition application but no class minus a daredevil is going to have near 100% avoidance of what is thrown your way, power or condition. the issue is active damage mitigation once you have any sort of conditions on you.

 

resistance isn't blocking conditions, it's mitigating the damage in the same way an endure pain or elixir s is to power in a much inferior way. when you power damage invuln, you are completely safe for a certain amount of time from any sort of power burst being a factor meanwhile resistance allows a condition player to keep applying pressure through more condi stacks.

 

with your example of heartseeker being immediate, after that heartseeker i have a chance to mitigate the next round of damage through blocks, invulns, etc. after a condition application, i have to avoid more incoming stacks through blocks, evades and removals while at the same time mitigating damage through removals and resistance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rynehawk.3405]

My two cents:

 

1. Just because someone can mitigate condi with a certain spec(s) doesn't mean there isn't a problem with wvw condi.

2. Just because people complain about condi doesn't mean it needs nerfed into the ground.

3. Not everyone has the same play style or skill level, but we shouldn't be pigeonholed into having to play only a handful of specs to deal with condi. Why bother having build diversity available at all then?

4. Not everyone will be experiencing wvw the same way. People have different goals and definitions about what is fun and what isn't. All opinions should be heard.

5. I know I can't dodge as often as condi is being applied. Power damage too sometimes for that matter.

6. I think people post about condi as being "cancer" and such because it can be hard to articulate your feelings when you're frustrated. It takes time to write a thoughtful post and I suppose some just don't want to make the effort. That doesn't mean they are wrong about condi, though it would be more helpful if they would expand on their frustrations to provide insightful feedback.

7. Part of the wvw condi issues may stem from Anet having made condi builds easy mode, which can be very appealing for new players or those just new to wvw. We've had an influx of new people due to pips, which might be skewing the issue currently.

8. There can be a happy balance for wvw. Key word: balance.

 

I like trying new things, so we will see how wvw shakes out. So far I think condi needs adjusted. This isn't just a PoF issue, HoT really messed up wvw balance overall in my opinion.

[Jana.6831]

> @babazhook.6805 said:

> You do not have to nor should you expect to evde every attack.

That's exactly the point of this thread and of people who want conditions to be toned down in general.

 

>3 stacks of confusion every 25 seconds based on a RNG is not going to kill anyone, anymore then Retaliation should (which can not be evaded either and is not coming froma rune).

You answered that yourself:

> You do not have to nor should you expect to evde every attack

 

I have no idea about all power builds but from the power runes I know they enhance my possible attack - you can still evade that attack but it's an attack and not something that's applied onto my opponent without me doing anything.

 

Edit:

>It not like everyone uses rune of perplexity.

Like I said it was just an example and I guess most if not all condi runes apply conditions passively. There's conditions that are easier applied, harder removed and also more damaging - and that, again, is the point of this thread/people who ask condi damage to be toned down.

Power builds can be OP as well but it's easier to avoid power attacks than condi attacks. That is something anet should look into as well. But right now it seems as if large scale is impossible and that mainly because of conditions and, again, as far as I've understood it that's the very point of this thread. So anet can tone down spellbreaker, they can tone down necros, without even touching conditions in general - but they should.

 

[babazhook.6805]

> @Scorci.3250 said:

> > @babazhook.6805 said:

> > Again you can block and evade Conditions ACTIVELY. Resistnce is not blocking conditions.

> >

> > Deathblossom as example is an active application of 3 bleeds. You can BLOCK or dodge dethblossom. If you wait for it to be applied then you have the 3 bleeds on you. This is no different then allowing heeartseeker to get through. Once it on you it is on you . Power is over and done. Conditions you have a second chance to mitigate.

> >

>

> of course you can block and evade condition application but no class minus a daredevil is going to have near 100% avoidance of what is thrown your way, power or condition. the issue is active damage mitigation once you have any sort of conditions on you.

>

> resistance isn't blocking conditions, it's mitigating the damage in the same way an endure pain or elixir s is to power in a much inferior way. when you power damage invuln, you are completely safe for a certain amount of time from any sort of power burst being a factor meanwhile resistance allows a condition player to keep applying pressure through more condi stacks.

>

> with your example of heartseeker being immediate, after that heartseeker i have a chance to mitigate the next round of damage through blocks, invulns, etc. after a condition application, i have to avoid more incoming stacks through blocks, evades and removals while at the same time mitigating damage through removals and resistance.

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

You can STILL resist the next attack after a Condition application.

 

Heartseeker not blocked or evaded you take X k damage.

 

Deathblossom not blocked or evaded you take 3 stakcs of bleed. in orde rto have that do X K damage it has to run on you for its duration. You now have a second chance to prevent via cleanse or resistance. The heartseeker has already done its damage. The NEXT heartseeker can be blocked or evaded. The NEXT deathblossom can be blocked or evaded.

 

What do YOU think will do more damage overall. A heartseeker you failed to block, or three stacks of bleeds you can now cleanse?

 

HS is 3 ini. DB is 4 ini.

 

You do not need a second chance to "clear that last heartseeker" because it alresady DID its damage. You do not need 10 seconds for that fulld amage to be applied and once applied the power build does not have to worry it will be cleansed in that 10 seconds.

[Scorci.3250]

> @babazhook.6805 said:

> You can STILL resist the next attack after a Condition application.

>

> Heartseeker not blocked or evaded you take X k damage.

>

> Deathblossom not blocked or evaded you take 3 stakcs of bleed. in orde rto have that do X K damage it has to run on you for its duration. You now have a second chance to prevent via cleanse or resistance. The heartseeker has already done its damage. The NEXT heartseeker can be blocked or evaded. The NEXT deathblossom can be blocked or evaded.

>

> What do YOU think will do more damage overall. A heartseeker you failed to block, or three stacks of bleeds you can now cleanse?

>

> HS is 3 ini. DB is 4 ini.

>

> You do not need a second chance to "clear that last heartseeker" because it alresady DID its damage. You do not need 10 seconds for that fulld amage to be applied and once applied the power build does not have to worry it will be cleansed in that 10 seconds.

 

and yet i had to mitigate the damage and avoid the next application with 2 separate tools in my kit, leaving me at a disadvantage come the next application

 

and DB vs heartseeker is cherry picking at its worst lmao. that's like saying guardian blink/zealot's flame vs. dagger throw

[Korgov.7645]

> @Scorci.3250 said:

> > @babazhook.6805 said:

> > Again you can block and evade Conditions ACTIVELY. Resistnce is not blocking conditions.

> >

> > Deathblossom as example is an active application of 3 bleeds. You can BLOCK or dodge dethblossom. If you wait for it to be applied then you have the 3 bleeds on you. This is no different then allowing heeartseeker to get through. Once it on you it is on you . Power is over and done. Conditions you have a second chance to mitigate.

> >

>

> of course you can block and evade condition application but no class minus a daredevil is going to have near 100% avoidance of what is thrown your way, power or condition. the issue is active damage mitigation once you have any sort of conditions on you.

 

If you choose to eat 20k power damage you are downed immediately. If you choose to pick up 20k worth of conditions you still have option to mitigate the damage during the next few seconds. What is the issue with that?

 

[Scorci.3250]

> @Korgov.7645 said:

>

> If you choose to eat 20k power damage you are downed immediately. If you choose to pick up 20k worth of conditions you still have option to mitigate the damage during the next few seconds. What is the issue with that?

>

 

cleanse is RNG and that kind of damage would be through 3 or 4 different types of condition? not every class has 100% condi clear buttons