Nerfed.

[Rubedo.8769]

SoE now only recharges 50% instead of 100% in pvp/wvw.

 

Of course.

[Xca.9721]

Well deserved. Way more nerfs to come. Just wait for the next balance patch.

[Despond.2174]

Of course this was going to get nerfed. No sane person could think getting out 16 phants in stealth every 90secs to disintegrate the world was anything other than a circus show. Even outside of that ultra combo the synergy with ether for small combos was beyond insane. I am surprised only this happened. I'd call this more of a "bug" fix than a nerf it was that broken.

 

But hey I won't lie and say it wasn't fun but I always knew it was going to be addressed.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

It was ALWAYS going to be nerfed. It was broken as hell. Cheap. Skilless and very, very broken. Was ALWAYS going to happen, it could have been much worse of a nerf. They could have gone for an X second reduction (5-10seconds) but this isnt too bad for what they could have done. Though, i expect more nerfs to come.

[TheArtOfMouts.7468]

Ok Now. When about Scourge and Firebrand nerf ?

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"TheArtOfMouts.7468" said:

> Ok Now. When about Scourge and Firebrand nerf ?

 

Scourge is nowhere near the threat it once was when it comes to 1 Vs 1. Firebrand could do with more tweaking in my opinion. Too much defense, healing and burst for my liking. Scourge however, isnt as strong now in 1 Vs 1 i cant remember the last time i died to one.

[TheArtOfMouts.7468]

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > @"TheArtOfMouts.7468" said:

> > Ok Now. When about Scourge and Firebrand nerf ?

>

> Scourge is nowhere near the threat it once was when it comes to 1 Vs 1. Firebrand could do with more tweaking in my opinion. Too much defense, healing and burst for my liking. Scourge however, isnt as strong now in 1 Vs 1 i cant remember the last time i died to one.

 

For Scourge, there is 1 ting that bug me a lot, is when you have downed and 1 enemy scourge around, he only need to throw whatever to cleave and hit hard everyone with less effort. And wtf the thing about fighting 2 scourge keeping 50% barriers for loooooong time, this is like fighting perma aegis Scourge !

Firebrand is now better than Druid :( Too much defense and healing.

[Vague Memory.2817]

That's pretty harsh nerf that effects a lot of builds in PvP. But Holosmith 600 (360 degree) range CC and OP damage is fine. Okay. Actually power mes was on finally on damage par with other classes, now it sucks again. Back to long unending fights with ele on cap.

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Vague Memory.2817" said:

> That's pretty harsh nerf that effects a lot of builds in PvP. But Holosmith 600 (360 degree) range CC and OP damage is fine. Okay. Actually power mes was on finally on damage par with other classes, now it sucks again. Back to long unending fights with ele on cap.

 

LOL thats hardly harsh consider it a part make up for lack of balance that should have been happening to the profession the last several balance patches that it some how out right ignored not to mention it got a whole rework which no other profession has gotten. People will still play the build because it still does alot of damage has a lot of cc and a lot of sustain.

 

Considering this is not the only thing thats going to be shaved I would consider looking at new ways of playing than spas summoning phants.

[Vague Memory.2817]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"Vague Memory.2817" said:

> > That's pretty harsh nerf that effects a lot of builds in PvP. But Holosmith 600 (360 degree) range CC and OP damage is fine. Okay. Actually power mes was on finally on damage par with other classes, now it sucks again. Back to long unending fights with ele on cap.

>

> LOL thats hardly harsh consider it a part make up for lack of balance that should have been happening to the profession the last several balance patches that it some how out right ignored not to mention it got a whole rework which no other profession has gotten. People will still play the build because it still does alot of damage has a lot of cc and a lot of sustain.

>

> Considering this is not the only thing thats going to be shaved I would consider looking at new ways of playing than spas summoning phants.

 

Well the big changes to power builds was needed because damage was relatively weak, that is why they did that, and spamming phants as you say was always there. The signet could always refresh phants, that wasn't a recent change. They are trying to compensate in a crude way to lower damage but instead have nerfed builds that don't even use utility phants. The biggest issue were mirages using the changes too, and they have a much lower risk of play than power shatterers.

 

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Vague Memory.2817" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"Vague Memory.2817" said:

> > > That's pretty harsh nerf that effects a lot of builds in PvP. But Holosmith 600 (360 degree) range CC and OP damage is fine. Okay. Actually power mes was on finally on damage par with other classes, now it sucks again. Back to long unending fights with ele on cap.

> >

> > LOL thats hardly harsh consider it a part make up for lack of balance that should have been happening to the profession the last several balance patches that it some how out right ignored not to mention it got a whole rework which no other profession has gotten. People will still play the build because it still does alot of damage has a lot of cc and a lot of sustain.

> >

> > Considering this is not the only thing thats going to be shaved I would consider looking at new ways of playing than spas summoning phants.

>

> Well the big changes to power builds was needed because damage was relatively weak, that is why they did that, and spamming phants as you say was always there. The signet could always refresh phants, that wasn't a recent change. They are trying to compensate in a crude way to lower damage but instead have nerfed builds that don't even use utility phants. The biggest issue were mirages using the changes too, and they have a much lower risk of play than power shatterers.

>

 

Mesmer is not the only profession that suffers from this problem and those professions didn't get that rework nor have the devs released any hints of reworks for other professions. To say "mesmer got it because damage is weak" but not acknowledge other professions who need it just as much if not more does not make up for the fact that what mesmer got was far over tuned and in need of shaving.

 

Utility phants are optional and most chrono builds did use them because of how strong they currently are. The issue is just not utility phants but the sheer amount of phants in general. SoE contributed to that and so it was shaved in pvp only which is not so bad. You get to keep your damage in the place where people complained about it most which was pve. This will likely help some for now until they can shave more on the next balance release. For the sheer number of tools mesmers have they should not have any were near the damage they have in pvp specifically.

 

I'll agree they could use more damage than what they had before the rework but not as much as they currently have now.

 

Im sorry but its out right true that more needs to be shaved in pvp and wvw no one cares too much if you keep your damage in pve which it seems like anet is going to allow. Any one who says mesmer is Gutted is over stating the situation by a long shot (Mesmer will very likely still be stronger than before the rework) thus meaning it is not gutted.

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"Vague Memory.2817" said:

> That's pretty harsh nerf that effects a lot of builds in PvP. But Holosmith 600 (360 degree) range CC and OP damage is fine. Okay. Actually power mes was on finally on damage par with other classes, now it sucks again. Back to long unending fights with ele on cap.

 

Play holosmith and tell me it's as powerful as you suggest. It's not bad or anything, but it's not in a great position either. It's pretty "meh" all-around right now (almost universally forced into the same traits and skills), which is sad because the rest of the engineer profession has no place in either WvW or PvP. Core and scrapper are still both laughably bad, and run any off-meta engineer build, and you will get slammed for it.

 

Chronomancer was (and still is) overperforming on nearly everything prior to this nerf. The PvP tank build could handle 1v2s no problem, and win handily. Now it's still significantly better than average, just not *quite* as powerful.

[Rubedo.8769]

I’m just waiting to see how things go from here on. Let’s face it Mesmer isn’t a class that will ever see perfect balance so long as we’re so reliant on AI. That being said while I felt a nerf of some form was warranted I’m curious to see how this works out. I just hope that things don’t go back to how they used to be where mesmers were subpar all the way around.

 

I do not want to see the days return where no one really wanted mesmers in PvP simply because there was no need for them. Outside of portal there wasn’t anything a Mesmer could do that another class couldn’t do better.

[Daishi.6027]

They killed a build, but I'm more or less fine with this.

I'd argue that it shouldn't have existed in a competitive environment even if it does have one or two counters.

 

Mirage is fine and this leaves it untouched, and still leaves chrono phantasma's strength.

[OriOri.8724]

As an emergency fix, I'm ok with this. But I really hope that this skill is simply redesigned when the actual balance patch lands. I still think 50% cooldown reduction is absurd when you can pair it with CP and IA

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Daishi.6027" said:

> They killed a build, but I'm more or less fine with this.

> I'd argue that it shouldn't have existed in a competitive environment even if it does have one or two counters.

>

> Mirage is fine and this leaves it untouched, and still leaves chrono phantasma's strength.

 

I don't think Bunker Chrono is going anywhere.

[Refia Montes.3205]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > They killed a build, but I'm more or less fine with this.

> > I'd argue that it shouldn't have existed in a competitive environment even if it does have one or two counters.

> >

> > Mirage is fine and this leaves it untouched, and still leaves chrono phantasma's strength.

>

> I don't think Bunker Chrono is going anywhere.

 

I agree, previous versions of it used Well of Eternity. An outright nerfing of the Chaos traitline is the way to make this build in line with other specs. 25% damage reduction for free and tons of boons from Shattering is way too much. Inspiration is fine as is, but I don't mind a CD increase for Mental Defender.

[Dawdler.8521]

Well this is practicly never used in WvW due to being a pisspoor heal under pressure and outmanned (ie 90% of the time) so this nerf isnt noticable at all.

[Imperadordf.2687]

Finally they are on the right way.

[BMW.2951]

I am glad they nerfed chrono a bit during the season. It was literally super OP and everyone knew it. Hoping ANET looks at Mesmer and Necro more for next balance patch. I think my SB is in a good place now :)

[OriOri.8724]

> @"BMW.2951" said:

> I am glad they nerfed chrono a bit during the season. It was literally super OP and everyone knew it. Hoping ANET looks at Mesmer and Necro more for next balance patch. I think my SB is in a good place now :)

 

Ok......? Glad to know here in the mesmer forums that you think your main is in a good spot, but that's not relevant to this forum.

[BMW.2951]

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > @"BMW.2951" said:

> > I am glad they nerfed chrono a bit during the season. It was literally super OP and everyone knew it. Hoping ANET looks at Mesmer and Necro more for next balance patch. I think my SB is in a good place now :)

>

> Ok......? Glad to know here in the mesmer forums that you think your main is in a good spot, but that's not relevant to this forum.

 

Thank you for your reply. Actually I did post about the Chrono Mesmer if you read my above post.

 

Have a nice day buddy.

[Vague Memory.2817]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"Vague Memory.2817" said:

> > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > @"Vague Memory.2817" said:

> > > > That's pretty harsh nerf that effects a lot of builds in PvP. But Holosmith 600 (360 degree) range CC and OP damage is fine. Okay. Actually power mes was on finally on damage par with other classes, now it sucks again. Back to long unending fights with ele on cap.

> > >

> > > LOL thats hardly harsh consider it a part make up for lack of balance that should have been happening to the profession the last several balance patches that it some how out right ignored not to mention it got a whole rework which no other profession has gotten. People will still play the build because it still does alot of damage has a lot of cc and a lot of sustain.

> > >

> > > Considering this is not the only thing thats going to be shaved I would consider looking at new ways of playing than spas summoning phants.

> >

> > Well the big changes to power builds was needed because damage was relatively weak, that is why they did that, and spamming phants as you say was always there. The signet could always refresh phants, that wasn't a recent change. They are trying to compensate in a crude way to lower damage but instead have nerfed builds that don't even use utility phants. The biggest issue were mirages using the changes too, and they have a much lower risk of play than power shatterers.

> >

>

> Mesmer is not the only profession that suffers from this problem and those professions didn't get that rework nor have the devs released any hints of reworks for other professions. To say "mesmer got it because damage is weak" but not acknowledge other professions who need it just as much if not more does not make up for the fact that what mesmer got was far over tuned and in need of shaving.

>

> Utility phants are optional and most chrono builds did use them because of how strong they currently are. The issue is just not utility phants but the sheer amount of phants in general. SoE contributed to that and so it was shaved in pvp only which is not so bad. You get to keep your damage in the place where people complained about it most which was pve. This will likely help some for now until they can shave more on the next balance release. For the sheer number of tools mesmers have they should not have any were near the damage they have in pvp specifically.

>

> I'll agree they could use more damage than what they had before the rework but not as much as they currently have now.

>

> Im sorry but its out right true that more needs to be shaved in pvp and wvw no one cares too much if you keep your damage in pve which it seems like anet is going to allow. Any one who says mesmer is Gutted is over stating the situation by a long shot (Mesmer will very likely still be stronger than before the rework) thus meaning it is not gutted.

 

You don't really seem to know what you re talking about when it comes to Mes. You keep talking about Chrono, but in PvP matches 8/10 Mes are playing Mirage, because it is much more forgiving given the number of extra evades and mobilty they have been given.

 

You say stuff like even without utility Phants there are too many Phants. What? Each weapon set has only 1 phant most on fairly long timers. Two weapon sets means two phants. Chronos before the last big patch already had quite a few skills nerfed (Chronophantasma, alacrity, tides of time, Illusionary Reversion, Lost Time, and F5-timepslitter). Even though Chronophantasma refreshed a Phant once on shatter, they have a 1.5 sec daze before attacking again (nerf). In PvP I rarely saw them refresh due to the daze and all the AoE in PvP. They just died too fast.

 

What the Patch allowed was to allow one build to become potentially heavy dps in the right hands, because you could technically put out 2 phants from weapon sets + 2 from uitilities (which were actually made useful), then use signet of Ether (100% recharge rate) to refresh your Phants and pretty much do it again. That isn't even including using Time splitter. However because of the massive power creep in other classes Necro (Scourge), Engi (Holosmith), Warr (Spellbreaker) etc. I found it brought power mes back into competiveness. Nerfing SoE is such a lazy descision, as it punishes every build and not just the one that ANET created, which was apparently a problem. On top of that people forget that by using SoE to refresh Phants you are taking a risk, because it is also you heal skill (long timer). So blow it for extra burst, but you just lost your heal too (proabably when you were still or near full health). This has always bee the trade off when activating SoE since GW2 came out.

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Vague Memory.2817" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"Vague Memory.2817" said:

> > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > > @"Vague Memory.2817" said:

> > > > > That's pretty harsh nerf that effects a lot of builds in PvP. But Holosmith 600 (360 degree) range CC and OP damage is fine. Okay. Actually power mes was on finally on damage par with other classes, now it sucks again. Back to long unending fights with ele on cap.

> > > >

> > > > LOL thats hardly harsh consider it a part make up for lack of balance that should have been happening to the profession the last several balance patches that it some how out right ignored not to mention it got a whole rework which no other profession has gotten. People will still play the build because it still does alot of damage has a lot of cc and a lot of sustain.

> > > >

> > > > Considering this is not the only thing thats going to be shaved I would consider looking at new ways of playing than spas summoning phants.

> > >

> > > Well the big changes to power builds was needed because damage was relatively weak, that is why they did that, and spamming phants as you say was always there. The signet could always refresh phants, that wasn't a recent change. They are trying to compensate in a crude way to lower damage but instead have nerfed builds that don't even use utility phants. The biggest issue were mirages using the changes too, and they have a much lower risk of play than power shatterers.

> > >

> >

> > Mesmer is not the only profession that suffers from this problem and those professions didn't get that rework nor have the devs released any hints of reworks for other professions. To say "mesmer got it because damage is weak" but not acknowledge other professions who need it just as much if not more does not make up for the fact that what mesmer got was far over tuned and in need of shaving.

> >

> > Utility phants are optional and most chrono builds did use them because of how strong they currently are. The issue is just not utility phants but the sheer amount of phants in general. SoE contributed to that and so it was shaved in pvp only which is not so bad. You get to keep your damage in the place where people complained about it most which was pve. This will likely help some for now until they can shave more on the next balance release. For the sheer number of tools mesmers have they should not have any were near the damage they have in pvp specifically.

> >

> > I'll agree they could use more damage than what they had before the rework but not as much as they currently have now.

> >

> > Im sorry but its out right true that more needs to be shaved in pvp and wvw no one cares too much if you keep your damage in pve which it seems like anet is going to allow. Any one who says mesmer is Gutted is over stating the situation by a long shot (Mesmer will very likely still be stronger than before the rework) thus meaning it is not gutted.

>

> You don't really seem to know what you re talking about when it comes to Mes. You keep talking about Chrono, but in PvP matches 8/10 Mes are playing Mirage, because it is much more forgiving given the number of extra evades and mobilty they have been given.

 

Stop dodging the subject you ran into a whole different e spec now just to try and throw things off. Chrono is without a doubt a problem and what you encounter in your matches does not account for everyone else so to say 8/10 as a fact is simply delusional. Ideally what you are suggesting is that mirage also needs to be shaved. The fact that there is a post on this site that has thousands upon thousands of people mesmers including saying that its problem proves that its for sure a problem.

>

> You say stuff like even without utility Phants there are too many Phants. What? Each weapon set has only 1 phant most on fairly long timers. Two weapon sets means two phants. Chronos before the last big patch already had quite a few skills nerfed (Chronophantasma, alacrity, tides of time, Illusionary Reversion, Lost Time, and F5-timepslitter). Even though Chronophantasma refreshed a Phant once on shatter, they have a 1.5 sec daze before attacking again (nerf). In PvP I rarely saw them refresh due to the daze and all the AoE in PvP. They just died too fast.

 

Stop... -_- The fact of the matter is that many of them spawn 2 which really becomes 4 with CP and can be refreshed via C-split and then again with SoE before the change stop acting like people only cast one skill then stand there and do nothing you pretend that people play it like they wont make the most out of every advantage they can get from it. Which when combined makes a 1 mesmer with tons of active attacks stacking on top of each other while allowing them to retreat or chase during all the chaos. There will always be chaos with mesmer but the current version chorno mesmer is simply too much and its a fact. Regardless if a target dies fast or slow the sheer amount of clutter and over tuned phants is abysmal right now. Im sure you have time to monitor each phantasm on if it lives or dies while fighting other players at the same time (unlikely)

 

>

> What the Patch allowed was to allow one build to become potentially heavy dps in the right hands, because you could technically put out 2 phants from weapon sets + 2 from uitilities (which were actually made useful), then use signet of Ether (100% recharge rate) to refresh your Phants and pretty much do it again. That isn't even including using Time splitter. However because of the massive power creep in other classes Necro (Scourge), Engi (Holosmith), Warr (Spellbreaker) etc. I found it brought power mes back into competiveness. Nerfing SoE is such a lazy descision, as it punishes every build and not just the one that ANET created, which was apparently a problem. On top of that people forget that by using SoE to refresh Phants you are taking a risk, because it is also you heal skill (long timer). So blow it for extra burst, but you just lost your heal too (proabably when you were still or near full health). This has always bee the trade off when activating SoE since GW2 came out.

 

Nerfing SoE was a quick fix to a problem that shouldn't be left to last for the next few months. Even if they left it as is you would only be more upset when everything gets nerfed some weeks from now as you would have had more time to bond with how over tuned it is.

You say it nerfs every build but fail to mention that every build also got a power boost from the single profession major rework to hit the game thus far I think its plenty fair that some get shaved off the top if things turn out to be working slightly stronger than they should be.

 

Your risk of popping SoE early is minimized by alacrity along with the use of using every other mesmer skill with chrono equipped. Thats not very much of a risk in todays times. Not to mention your other damage avoidance tools its hardly a risk at all. In most cases you can afford to pop it early.

 

Risk is doing something that causes self harm and can cause a massive sway when used. There is no sway on the mesmers part when SoE is used outside of my heal is down. That can be said for every other profession that uses a heal. Necros and Revs are the only real risk users you will see in this game. Having skills that pull conditions or cause conditions to themselves, using an elite which drains your energy locking you out of all your skills etc. These are examples of risk. Popping SoE no more risk than any other profession using a heal but the reward was 100% recharge on several skills on weapons and utility bars. No other profession gets rewarded like this for simply popping a heal or any utility skill for that matter. Ideally the current version of mesmer should not exists in a competitive game mode it literally is built on tools and mechanics that break the the balance of the game and are not easily balanced as players find ways to make the most of the tools.

 

As i said regardless of what they do all specs of mesmer will end up stronger than what they were before its **"Personal rework"** and thats nothing to sneeze at. Enjoy the fact that your profession of choice got a personal retouch that was as anet put it **"The closest thing we have done outside creating a new elite spec"** and that it actually improved it on all fronts.

 

Its incredible to see people sit here and act like its not enough still even after all that.

[Dawdler.8521]

I was running in WvW and actually met a mirage with signet of ether for a change (I was also running mirage, though I use oasis). A little duel outside a tower, we engaged... and he downed in 15 seconds while doing little to no damage to me (he did more condi damage when downed). Looking back at the clip he popped the signet right after engagement (ie during torch stealth when he was rushing me). I remembered this topic again and thought "wait what's the signet even supposed to do", haha?

 

Sometimes I think I have to go into PvP just to check things out lol. Kind of miss some aspects of skill use I guess :/