Ayrilana.1396 Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 Are there any plans to resolve all of the loose ends and unresolved plots introduced since LS1? A few examples: * Who is E? * What was the purpose of the Krytan royal locket from LS2? * Malyck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maulclaw.4365 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 Nope. These threads won't ever see the light day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamias.7059 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 * Fate of Evennia * Balthazar and Menzies' Eternal Battle * E * Malyck * Dredge revolution * Flame Legion post the death of Gaheron Baelfire * Bahltek * Xun Rao (in fairness I don't think this one was forgotten/abandoned so much as intentionally left vague) * Nightmare Court and Mordremoth * Early hints that the Arcane Council were plotting to dominate Tyria * Mysterious abandoned civilisation in the Tarnished Coast * What happened to the Margonites after Mallyx the Unyielding was killed? * Centaur War * Tengu isolationism * How have the Sons of Svanir been affected by everything going on with Elder Dragons and the balance of magic? * Remember when "becoming the bear" was almost the defining feature of the norn? * Krait orb and Sayeh al' Rajihd (hopefully this one will be coming back eventually) * Magdaer * Mai Trin * The Consortium * Fate of the Pale Tree * Lord Odran/Mists portal in Drascir * Zojja Probably many more, too. The storytelling has been more focussed lately but I think ANet is still spinning too many plates (e.g. Olmakhan - they're cool and all but is now really time to expand the lore rather than deepen it?). There's a real habit of starting up a story, getting players intrigued, and then losing interest in telling that story and moving on. HoT is the perfect example of this. You have lots of sylvari storylines, like Malyck, Faolain and Caithe, the Nightmare Court, and so on for which HoT was the best and only opportunity to tie up. ANet had worked hard on these stories and invested in them narratively since release. But they all got sidelined or wrapped up hastily in favour of some totally new stuff about Glint's egg, Exalted, and a lost asuran city. Whether it was because of lack or focus or project mismanagement or whatever, I sincerely doubt we'll see a satisfying resolution to any of those stories now. It was a waste of all that previous effort and a bit of a tragedy. Another good example is Lazarus. That's a story that has tendrils all the way into Prophecies. It kicked off in Eye of the North after [fan outcry](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mursaat_Rally), we were assured by @"LinseyMurdock.4165" that there were some ["really cool plans"](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_talk:Linsey_Murdock/Lore1#Asura_and_Mursaat) that just...never materialised. In the end we got some confusing secret identity storyline where Lazarus was actually Balthazar and then Lazarus got hastily killed off in a LW episode that screamed "we've got the rest of the story mapped out and this was the only place we could squeeze this in". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reincarnatie.7254 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 > @"Tamias.7059" said: > * Fate of Evennia > * Balthazar and Menzies' Eternal Battle > * E > * Malyck > * Dredge revolution > * Flame Legion post the death of Gaheron Baelfire > * Bahltek > * Xun Rao (in fairness I don't think this one was forgotten/abandoned so much as intentionally left vague) > * Nightmare Court and Mordremoth > * Early hints that the Arcane Council were plotting to dominate Tyria > * Mysterious abandoned civilisation in the Tarnished Coast > * What happened to the Margonites after Mallyx the Unyielding was killed? > * Centaur War > * Tengu isolationism > * How have the Sons of Svanir been affected by everything going on with Elder Dragons and the balance of magic? > * Remember when "becoming the bear" was almost the defining feature of the norn? > * Krait orb and Sayeh al' Rajihd (hopefully this one will be coming back eventually) > * Magdaer > * Mai Trin > * The Consortium > * Fate of the Pale Tree > * Lord Odran/Mists portal in Drascir > * Zojja > > Probably many more, too. The storytelling has been more focussed lately but I think ANet is still spinning too many plates (e.g. Olmakhan - they're cool and all but is now really time to expand the lore rather than deepen it?). There's a real habit of starting up a story, getting players intrigued, and then losing interest in telling that story and moving on. > > HoT is the perfect example of this. You have lots of sylvari storylines, like Malyck, Faolain and Caithe, the Nightmare Court, and so on for which HoT was the best and only opportunity to tie up. ANet had worked hard on these stories and invested in them narratively since release. But they all got sidelined or wrapped up hastily in favour of some totally new stuff about Glint's egg, Exalted, and a lost asuran city. Whether it was because of lack or focus or project mismanagement or whatever, I sincerely doubt we'll see a satisfying resolution to any of those stories now. It was a waste of all that previous effort and a bit of a tragedy. > > Another good example is Lazarus. That's a story that has tendrils all the way into Prophecies. It kicked off in Eye of the North after [fan outcry](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mursaat_Rally), we were assured by @"LinseyMurdock.4165" that there were some ["really cool plans"](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_talk:Linsey_Murdock/Lore1#Asura_and_Mursaat) that just...never materialised. In the end we got some confusing secret identity storyline where Lazarus was actually Balthazar and then Lazarus got hastily killed off in a LW episode that screamed "we've got the rest of the story mapped out and this was the only place we could squeeze this in". I cry inside about all of these because some of these I wasn't even aware of (ex. Xun Rao, Balhtek, Lord Odran/Drascir, etc.). :scream: I cry especially about all the LWS1 stuff like Mai Trin and The Consortium, as well as HoT and vanilla GW2 stuff (Malyck, Pale Tree, Nghtmare Court, E, Dredge Revolution, Flame Legion/Gaheron, Arcane Council world domination/Inquest links, Alcazia Tangle, Tengu restoration/end of isolationism, shape-shifting norn, Toxic Allliance, etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArenaNet Staff Bobby Stein.3612 Posted April 27, 2018 ArenaNet Staff Share Posted April 27, 2018 This is a good question, and a rather complex topic. Let’s start off by acknowledging where we’re at. The Personal Story and Season 1 introduced a lot of characters, concepts, and story threads, some of which were never resolved. Much of that was due to scope, as the PS and LWS1 were, frankly, unfocused in spots. That led to some story debt. Because we’re not at liberty to discuss unreleased content, we can’t simply go through a list of bullets and write “yes/no/maybe” next to each item people would like answers on. But we can talk a bit about how we develop story to give you some insight into the process, and also acknowledge that, yes, we’re aware of what’s currently unresolved and, yes, we would like to resolve some of them. Here’s a simplified view of how we develop a season’s story. First, we take inventory on where we’re at: • Where are we in the overarching dragon story? • Where are the characters in their arcs? • What unresolved character journeys or plots exist, and how do they relate to the main story we’re telling? Every single time we discuss story for an expansion or Living World season, we talk about these loose ends. We weigh those potential stories along with the main dragon and character ones we’re committed to finishing. If we have the time and resources to work one or more of them into the season plan, we do so. If we can’t do them justice, we leave them be with the intention of re-evaluating the possibility later. Here’s why: We already know from our experience in developing the Personal Story and LWS1 that quantity doesn’t equal quality. We need to focus on our characters and commit to telling a satisfying story from start to finish rather than trying to tackle *everything* and doing a mediocre job of it. That means making the tough decision of *not* resolving some of these stories as quickly as folks would like. In some cases, we might not ever touch them again. But we’re acutely aware of the story debt we’ve created and we frequently discuss how best to tie things up. Personally, I would like to see us tie up some loose ends this season or in the future, as do many of us on the Narrative and Design teams. We just need to figure out the right way to do it, and then commit to doing it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldirtbeard.9834 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 > @"Bobby Stein.3612" said: > This is a good question, and a rather complex topic. Let’s start off by acknowledging where we’re at. The Personal Story and Season 1 introduced a lot of characters, concepts, and story threads, some of which were never resolved. Much of that was due to scope, as the PS and LWS1 were, frankly, unfocused in spots. That led to some story debt. Because we’re not at liberty to discuss unreleased content, we can’t simply go through a list of bullets and write “yes/no/maybe” next to each item people would like answers on. But we can talk a bit about how we develop story to give you some insight into the process, and also acknowledge that, yes, we’re aware of what’s currently unresolved and, yes, we would like to resolve some of them. > > Here’s a simplified view of how we develop a season’s story. First, we take inventory on where we’re at: > • Where are we in the overarching dragon story? > • Where are the characters in their arcs? > • What unresolved character journeys or plots exist, and how do they relate to the main story we’re telling? > > Every single time we discuss story for an expansion or Living World season, we talk about these loose ends. We weigh those potential stories along with the main dragon and character ones we’re committed to finishing. If we have the time and resources to work one or more of them into the season plan, we do so. If we can’t do them justice, we leave them be with the intention of re-evaluating the possibility later. Here’s why: > > We already know from our experience in developing the Personal Story and LWS1 that quantity doesn’t equal quality. We need to focus on our characters and commit to telling a satisfying story from start to finish rather than trying to tackle *everything* and doing a mediocre job of it. That means making the tough decision of *not* resolving some of these stories as quickly as folks would like. In some cases, we might not ever touch them again. But we’re acutely aware of the story debt we’ve created and we frequently discuss how best to tie things up. > > Personally, I would like to see us tie up some loose ends this season or in the future, as do many of us on the Narrative and Design teams. We just need to figure out the right way to do it, and then commit to doing it right. > Perhaps these can be addressed in Future end of season LW Episodes of GW3, like Livia and Lazarus? I'm just busting your chops in a friendly way, it's hard to make that come across in text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foozlesprite.8051 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 > @"Bobby Stein.3612" said: > Personally, I would like to see us tie up some loose ends this season or in the future, as do many of us on the Narrative and Design teams. We just need to figure out the right way to do it, and then commit to doing it right. Out of curiosity, do you typically take player interest into account - such as considering what plot threads to potentially wrap up by seeing what's requested most on this forum over the past two days? There are obviously other factors such as how much it's relevant to current/future plots or whether it can reasonably be added as a lore book somewhere in game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruadan.9301 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 > @"Bobby Stein.3612" said: > Personally, I would like to see us tie up some loose ends this season or in the future, as do many of us on the Narrative and Design teams. We just need to figure out the right way to do it, and then commit to doing it right. > Thank you for this response. It means a lot to those of us who care about the lore, to know that you guys have NOT forgotten about those unresolved things, and that it bothers you too. It's good to know we may still get answers to some of the more urgent questions, and that you simply don't want to let the writing suffer just to bring them to us. Really, this is one of the more important things to take away from this AFC. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 > @"Bobby Stein.3612" said: > This is a good question, and a rather complex topic. Let’s start off by acknowledging where we’re at. The Personal Story and Season 1 introduced a lot of characters, concepts, and story threads, some of which were never resolved. Much of that was due to scope, as the PS and LWS1 were, frankly, unfocused in spots. That led to some story debt. Because we’re not at liberty to discuss unreleased content, we can’t simply go through a list of bullets and write “yes/no/maybe” next to each item people would like answers on. But we can talk a bit about how we develop story to give you some insight into the process, and also acknowledge that, yes, we’re aware of what’s currently unresolved and, yes, we would like to resolve some of them. > > Here’s a simplified view of how we develop a season’s story. First, we take inventory on where we’re at: > • Where are we in the overarching dragon story? > • Where are the characters in their arcs? > • What unresolved character journeys or plots exist, and how do they relate to the main story we’re telling? > > Every single time we discuss story for an expansion or Living World season, we talk about these loose ends. We weigh those potential stories along with the main dragon and character ones we’re committed to finishing. If we have the time and resources to work one or more of them into the season plan, we do so. If we can’t do them justice, we leave them be with the intention of re-evaluating the possibility later. Here’s why: > > We already know from our experience in developing the Personal Story and LWS1 that quantity doesn’t equal quality. We need to focus on our characters and commit to telling a satisfying story from start to finish rather than trying to tackle *everything* and doing a mediocre job of it. That means making the tough decision of *not* resolving some of these stories as quickly as folks would like. In some cases, we might not ever touch them again. But we’re acutely aware of the story debt we’ve created and we frequently discuss how best to tie things up. > > Personally, I would like to see us tie up some loose ends this season or in the future, as do many of us on the Narrative and Design teams. We just need to figure out the right way to do it, and then commit to doing it right. > Completely agree and thanks for acknowledging this issue., although loose ends do still appear all too often even now. Hopefully the big jump in quality for LS4 shows that tighter narrative writing is in force for the main arc and everything is fully wrapped up within a season and expac, without spilling over. Perhaps it might be worth re-evaluating Current Events to cover some of the smaller things outside of the arc, where you can be less restricted. Currently they are used as filler for the current story, but in reality they age horribly and jar with the static maps. Perhaps the current events could be used to explore things like the Nightmare Court, The Consortium, Aetherblades as other things going on in the World. The Trahearne/Caladbolg quest remains one of your best CE's, partly because it was just a great piece of content, but also because it tied off a few small lore things whilst keeping to other goings on in the World. We have this big, wide "Living World", but we only ever examine a narrow, linear section of it. CE's seem the perfect way to expand on this, without dedicating the resources a full episode might need Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArenaNet Staff Bobby Stein.3612 Posted April 27, 2018 ArenaNet Staff Share Posted April 27, 2018 > @"foozlesprite.8051" said: > > @"Bobby Stein.3612" said: > > Personally, I would like to see us tie up some loose ends this season or in the future, as do many of us on the Narrative and Design teams. We just need to figure out the right way to do it, and then commit to doing it right. > > Out of curiosity, do you typically take player interest into account - such as considering what plot threads to potentially wrap up by seeing what's requested most on this forum over the past two days? There are obviously other factors such as how much it's relevant to current/future plots or whether it can reasonably be added as a lore book somewhere in game. We always take player feedback into account, so please continue to let us know how you feel about the game and the stories we're telling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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