Deadeye Rework: Feedback [Merged]

[Avador.8934]

I love these changes. Been having a blast with rifle in PvP since the patch.

[Sojourner.4621]

> @"LadyKitty.6120" said:

> Kitty's now done some testing. She found traditional CnD+Backstab off-stealth-CD (in other words, after every 2 auto-chains) as the most effective rotation, with heartseeker-spam to load malice for powered-up Backstabs during last 25%. She pulled 28255 like that, which is about 800 more than before revamp. Sword is still an auto-attack weapon regardless of off-hand, 24426. Rifle seems to work best by spamming rifle 3 a lot 'til M7 -> rifle 3 -> evade+DJ -> rifle 3 spam 'til M3 procs again. With that, Kitty got 25168 on her cleanest pull (though she prolly could've pulled 1k more if she were more clinical, but she isn't). She'll test rest of power DE builds tomorrow.

>

> Considering the nerfs to passive auras (Spotter, EA), D/D DE is a bit closer to acceptance.

 

That's pretty consistent with what I was finding as well, that D/D is pulled up a bit by it in the below 25% range where using full malice backstabs is actually practical. I am not able to hit anywhere near the 31k I was hitting on rifle with the old brain-dead rotation, the dodge to stealth trait ofc has a 10s cooldown unless you re-kneel and even with that I found that it... doesn't always actually work. The old build ofc relied on hitting a DJ every 6 seconds.

[Almondjoy.8964]

> @"Sojourner.4621" said:

>

> That's pretty consistent with what I was finding as well, that D/D is pulled up a bit by it in the below 25% range where using full malice backstabs is actually practical. I am not able to hit anywhere near the 31k I was hitting on rifle with the old brain-dead rotation, the dodge to stealth trait ofc has a 10s cooldown unless you re-kneel and even with that I found that it... doesn't always actually work. The old build ofc relied on hitting a DJ every 6 seconds.

 

I had the same problem too during my testing its a weird cancel thing. So when you're spamming 3 you have to wait for the whole cast time to finish not just the animation. If you dodge during triple shot, one of the shots will sorta count as your attack revealing you and taking away your chance to DJ.

 

Also if you dodge while kneeling and don't cancel the kneel during the dodge, silent scope won't trigger a CD. Essential just stay in kneel during dodge and it should work just fine.

[Sojourner.4621]

> @"Almondjoy.8964" said:

> > @"Sojourner.4621" said:

> >

> > That's pretty consistent with what I was finding as well, that D/D is pulled up a bit by it in the below 25% range where using full malice backstabs is actually practical. I am not able to hit anywhere near the 31k I was hitting on rifle with the old brain-dead rotation, the dodge to stealth trait ofc has a 10s cooldown unless you re-kneel and even with that I found that it... doesn't always actually work. The old build ofc relied on hitting a DJ every 6 seconds.

>

> I had the same problem too during my testing its a weird cancel thing. So when you're spamming 3 you have to wait for the whole cast time to finish not just the animation. If you dodge during triple shot, one of the shots will sorta count as your attack revealing you and taking away your chance to DJ.

>

> Also if you dodge while kneeling and don't cancel the kneel during the dodge, silent scope won't trigger a CD. Essential just stay in kneel during dodge and it should work just fine.

 

Even auto-attacks were causing me to reveal, and I think this is because the stealth happens at the start of the dodge roll rather than the end, which means ANY projectile of any kind on its way to the target when you start to dodge will immediately reveal you.

[Almondjoy.8964]

> @"Sojourner.4621" said:

> > @"Almondjoy.8964" said:

> > > @"Sojourner.4621" said:

> > >

> > > That's pretty consistent with what I was finding as well, that D/D is pulled up a bit by it in the below 25% range where using full malice backstabs is actually practical. I am not able to hit anywhere near the 31k I was hitting on rifle with the old brain-dead rotation, the dodge to stealth trait ofc has a 10s cooldown unless you re-kneel and even with that I found that it... doesn't always actually work. The old build ofc relied on hitting a DJ every 6 seconds.

> >

> > I had the same problem too during my testing its a weird cancel thing. So when you're spamming 3 you have to wait for the whole cast time to finish not just the animation. If you dodge during triple shot, one of the shots will sorta count as your attack revealing you and taking away your chance to DJ.

> >

> > Also if you dodge while kneeling and don't cancel the kneel during the dodge, silent scope won't trigger a CD. Essential just stay in kneel during dodge and it should work just fine.

>

> Even auto-attacks were causing me to reveal, and I think this is because the stealth happens at the start of the dodge roll rather than the end, which means ANY projectile of any kind on its way to the target when you start to dodge will immediately reveal you.

 

Yeah, you're exactly right. I had auto attacks enabled and I even had to disable them as well for it to work fully. Maybe from an ease of use standpoint Id like to see the stealth at the end but, I can also get used to this way I just gotta be aware not to botch that and ill be fine.

[Sojourner.4621]

> @"Almondjoy.8964" said:

> > @"Sojourner.4621" said:

> > > @"Almondjoy.8964" said:

> > > > @"Sojourner.4621" said:

> > > >

> > > > That's pretty consistent with what I was finding as well, that D/D is pulled up a bit by it in the below 25% range where using full malice backstabs is actually practical. I am not able to hit anywhere near the 31k I was hitting on rifle with the old brain-dead rotation, the dodge to stealth trait ofc has a 10s cooldown unless you re-kneel and even with that I found that it... doesn't always actually work. The old build ofc relied on hitting a DJ every 6 seconds.

> > >

> > > I had the same problem too during my testing its a weird cancel thing. So when you're spamming 3 you have to wait for the whole cast time to finish not just the animation. If you dodge during triple shot, one of the shots will sorta count as your attack revealing you and taking away your chance to DJ.

> > >

> > > Also if you dodge while kneeling and don't cancel the kneel during the dodge, silent scope won't trigger a CD. Essential just stay in kneel during dodge and it should work just fine.

> >

> > Even auto-attacks were causing me to reveal, and I think this is because the stealth happens at the start of the dodge roll rather than the end, which means ANY projectile of any kind on its way to the target when you start to dodge will immediately reveal you.

>

> Yeah, you're exactly right. I had auto attacks enabled and I even had to disable them as well for it to work fully. Maybe from an ease of use standpoint Id like to see the stealth at the end but, I can also get used to this way I just gotta be aware not to botch that and ill be fine.

 

Well, by its very nature it's kinda poor design when compared to stealth on kneel. You're burning two of a thief's active defenses at the same time (dodge/stealth) for something half as effective. It's clear they did it in order to get rid of the ammo counter on kneel but, it doesn't really work out the way it should. It's almost too much risk to stealth this way and so I find myself relying on other methods instead.

[Zalavaaris.5329]

> @"Sojourner.4621" said:

> > @"Almondjoy.8964" said:

> > > @"Sojourner.4621" said:

> > > > @"Almondjoy.8964" said:

> > > > > @"Sojourner.4621" said:

> > > > >

> > > > > That's pretty consistent with what I was finding as well, that D/D is pulled up a bit by it in the below 25% range where using full malice backstabs is actually practical. I am not able to hit anywhere near the 31k I was hitting on rifle with the old brain-dead rotation, the dodge to stealth trait ofc has a 10s cooldown unless you re-kneel and even with that I found that it... doesn't always actually work. The old build ofc relied on hitting a DJ every 6 seconds.

> > > >

> > > > I had the same problem too during my testing its a weird cancel thing. So when you're spamming 3 you have to wait for the whole cast time to finish not just the animation. If you dodge during triple shot, one of the shots will sorta count as your attack revealing you and taking away your chance to DJ.

> > > >

> > > > Also if you dodge while kneeling and don't cancel the kneel during the dodge, silent scope won't trigger a CD. Essential just stay in kneel during dodge and it should work just fine.

> > >

> > > Even auto-attacks were causing me to reveal, and I think this is because the stealth happens at the start of the dodge roll rather than the end, which means ANY projectile of any kind on its way to the target when you start to dodge will immediately reveal you.

> >

> > Yeah, you're exactly right. I had auto attacks enabled and I even had to disable them as well for it to work fully. Maybe from an ease of use standpoint Id like to see the stealth at the end but, I can also get used to this way I just gotta be aware not to botch that and ill be fine.

>

> Well, by its very nature it's kinda poor design when compared to stealth on kneel. You're burning two of a thief's active defenses at the same time (dodge/stealth) for something half as effective. It's clear they did it in order to get rid of the ammo counter on kneel but, it doesn't really work out the way it should. It's almost too much risk to stealth this way and so I find myself relying on other methods instead.

 

That's a huge problem. Right now all of your dps depends on your other class resources. You build malice super fast and lose it all with 1 ability. So your elite skill needs to give stealth, your heal skill needs to give stealth (and needs to be used as a damage cooldown), your dodges need to be used as a damage resource, and any utility skill that gives stealth basically. They just tied everything around stealth and took away our ability to choose how we build a deadeye because our main class mechanic for damage is now tied to stealth.

[Kallist.5917]

The changes are poorly thought out. Period.

They have destroyed the way the elite spec's parts all played off of each other. The class made sense before these changes, everything came down to Marking, it was all interlinking. No matter what kind of build you played, you were employing parts of the web that made up the Deadeye spec to make your build work.


Marking gave you Malice gain, which gave you access to Bonus damage, Bonus Utility effects, Bonus Rifle damage, and Boons. The Marks stolen skill gave Condi users a way to apply conditions to larger groups, giving us our first non-bow AOE alternative to applying Venoms, with traits, we gained more stolen skills and applied more conditions, and more boons. We were also able to hand out Might like it was Candy on a Halloween night. It all played off of the same thing though, Mark. It all came together in one cohesive web of interlinking systems that allowed us to take whatever we wanted for our second and third trait-lines to compliment the setup.


 

Now we have 3 individual parts that dont work off of each other at all beyond gaining a stealth attack with a few boons for yourself. Mark to gain malice as you spend Init, to get a amped up stealth attack. Utilities. Rifle.

These changes are taken every big of the complexity of the elite spec away and replaced it with mediocre gameplay.

Anet, Please consider revising these changes, Im not saying go back, but you have taken every bit of the complexity of the traitline away and given us access to blind, the lamest of the conditions. Has anyone here ever said "Ah damn! I'm Blind!" like you would with Bleeding, Burning, Confusion, Poison, Torment, Chilled, Crippled, Feared, Immobilized, Slowed, Taunted, weakness, of Vulnerability? Immobilize would have been great.

[Zarfall.6521]

Then: 

 

 

Now: 

 

[Almondjoy.8964]

> @"Zalavaaris.5329" said:

> > @"Sojourner.4621" said:

> > > @"Almondjoy.8964" said:

> > > > @"Sojourner.4621" said:

> > > > > @"Almondjoy.8964" said:

> > > > > > @"Sojourner.4621" said:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That's pretty consistent with what I was finding as well, that D/D is pulled up a bit by it in the below 25% range where using full malice backstabs is actually practical. I am not able to hit anywhere near the 31k I was hitting on rifle with the old brain-dead rotation, the dodge to stealth trait ofc has a 10s cooldown unless you re-kneel and even with that I found that it... doesn't always actually work. The old build ofc relied on hitting a DJ every 6 seconds.

> > > > >

> > > > > I had the same problem too during my testing its a weird cancel thing. So when you're spamming 3 you have to wait for the whole cast time to finish not just the animation. If you dodge during triple shot, one of the shots will sorta count as your attack revealing you and taking away your chance to DJ.

> > > > >

> > > > > Also if you dodge while kneeling and don't cancel the kneel during the dodge, silent scope won't trigger a CD. Essential just stay in kneel during dodge and it should work just fine.

> > > >

> > > > Even auto-attacks were causing me to reveal, and I think this is because the stealth happens at the start of the dodge roll rather than the end, which means ANY projectile of any kind on its way to the target when you start to dodge will immediately reveal you.

> > >

> > > Yeah, you're exactly right. I had auto attacks enabled and I even had to disable them as well for it to work fully. Maybe from an ease of use standpoint Id like to see the stealth at the end but, I can also get used to this way I just gotta be aware not to botch that and ill be fine.

> >

> > Well, by its very nature it's kinda poor design when compared to stealth on kneel. You're burning two of a thief's active defenses at the same time (dodge/stealth) for something half as effective. It's clear they did it in order to get rid of the ammo counter on kneel but, it doesn't really work out the way it should. It's almost too much risk to stealth this way and so I find myself relying on other methods instead.

>

> That's a huge problem. Right now all of your dps depends on your other class resources. You build malice super fast and lose it all with 1 ability. So your elite skill needs to give stealth, your heal skill needs to give stealth (and needs to be used as a damage cooldown), your dodges need to be used as a damage resource, and any utility skill that gives stealth basically. They just tied everything around stealth and took away our ability to choose how we build a deadeye because our main class mechanic for damage is now tied to stealth.

 

Thats not fair to the devs, if were looking at the way dodge/stealth thing works I don't think it was meant to be something as our only means of escape. If were trying to mitigate damage dogding is just fine the stealth is only a bonus that we can now turn into offense. We don't need to stack stealth utility because of it. On top of that Meld still has 2 counts and the heal stealth which most of the time I find myself using those defensively in PvP and PvE.

 

Because M7 which grants Vigor which meand we will always have that dodge roll availble to us for defense and offense when we need it. I really don't feel like im burning resources doing it to attack or dodge.

 

Also if we don't want to use stealth and save our dodges we have kneel 4 which is very good and under utilized right now. So in some situations just try kneel 4, it last quite awhile. If need be you can DR in it for more stealth and its a defensive option that doesnt use endurance.

 

We have options and various ways were just used to the old way we gotta adapt

[Zalavaaris.5329]

> @"Almondjoy.8964" said:

> > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said:

> > > @"Sojourner.4621" said:

> > > > @"Almondjoy.8964" said:

> > > > > @"Sojourner.4621" said:

> > > > > > @"Almondjoy.8964" said:

> > > > > > > @"Sojourner.4621" said:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > That's pretty consistent with what I was finding as well, that D/D is pulled up a bit by it in the below 25% range where using full malice backstabs is actually practical. I am not able to hit anywhere near the 31k I was hitting on rifle with the old brain-dead rotation, the dodge to stealth trait ofc has a 10s cooldown unless you re-kneel and even with that I found that it... doesn't always actually work. The old build ofc relied on hitting a DJ every 6 seconds.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I had the same problem too during my testing its a weird cancel thing. So when you're spamming 3 you have to wait for the whole cast time to finish not just the animation. If you dodge during triple shot, one of the shots will sorta count as your attack revealing you and taking away your chance to DJ.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Also if you dodge while kneeling and don't cancel the kneel during the dodge, silent scope won't trigger a CD. Essential just stay in kneel during dodge and it should work just fine.

> > > > >

> > > > > Even auto-attacks were causing me to reveal, and I think this is because the stealth happens at the start of the dodge roll rather than the end, which means ANY projectile of any kind on its way to the target when you start to dodge will immediately reveal you.

> > > >

> > > > Yeah, you're exactly right. I had auto attacks enabled and I even had to disable them as well for it to work fully. Maybe from an ease of use standpoint Id like to see the stealth at the end but, I can also get used to this way I just gotta be aware not to botch that and ill be fine.

> > >

> > > Well, by its very nature it's kinda poor design when compared to stealth on kneel. You're burning two of a thief's active defenses at the same time (dodge/stealth) for something half as effective. It's clear they did it in order to get rid of the ammo counter on kneel but, it doesn't really work out the way it should. It's almost too much risk to stealth this way and so I find myself relying on other methods instead.

> >

> > That's a huge problem. Right now all of your dps depends on your other class resources. You build malice super fast and lose it all with 1 ability. So your elite skill needs to give stealth, your heal skill needs to give stealth (and needs to be used as a damage cooldown), your dodges need to be used as a damage resource, and any utility skill that gives stealth basically. They just tied everything around stealth and took away our ability to choose how we build a deadeye because our main class mechanic for damage is now tied to stealth.

>

> Thats not fair to the devs, if were looking at the way dodge/stealth thing works I don't think it was meant to be something as our only means of escape. If were trying to mitigate damage dogding is just fine the stealth is only a bonus that we can now turn into offense. We don't need to stack stealth utility because of it. On top of that Meld still has 2 counts and the heal stealth which most of the time I find myself using those defensively in PvP and PvE.

>

> Because M7 which grants Vigor which meand we will always have that dodge roll availble to us for defense and offense when we need it. I really don't feel like im burning resources doing it to attack or dodge.

>

> Also if we don't want to use stealth and save our dodges we have kneel 4 which is very good and under utilized right now. So in some situations just try kneel 4, it last quite awhile. If need be you can DR in it for more stealth and its a defensive option that doesnt use endurance.

>

> We have options and various ways were just used to the old way we gotta adapt

 

So you dont use stealth in your rotation to do max damage? Because I have to!

 

I get max malice way faster than I can use it due to the amount of stealth I have access to.

[Sojourner.4621]

> @"Almondjoy.8964" said:

> > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said:

> > > @"Sojourner.4621" said:

> > > > @"Almondjoy.8964" said:

> > > > > @"Sojourner.4621" said:

> > > > > > @"Almondjoy.8964" said:

> > > > > > > @"Sojourner.4621" said:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > That's pretty consistent with what I was finding as well, that D/D is pulled up a bit by it in the below 25% range where using full malice backstabs is actually practical. I am not able to hit anywhere near the 31k I was hitting on rifle with the old brain-dead rotation, the dodge to stealth trait ofc has a 10s cooldown unless you re-kneel and even with that I found that it... doesn't always actually work. The old build ofc relied on hitting a DJ every 6 seconds.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I had the same problem too during my testing its a weird cancel thing. So when you're spamming 3 you have to wait for the whole cast time to finish not just the animation. If you dodge during triple shot, one of the shots will sorta count as your attack revealing you and taking away your chance to DJ.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Also if you dodge while kneeling and don't cancel the kneel during the dodge, silent scope won't trigger a CD. Essential just stay in kneel during dodge and it should work just fine.

> > > > >

> > > > > Even auto-attacks were causing me to reveal, and I think this is because the stealth happens at the start of the dodge roll rather than the end, which means ANY projectile of any kind on its way to the target when you start to dodge will immediately reveal you.

> > > >

> > > > Yeah, you're exactly right. I had auto attacks enabled and I even had to disable them as well for it to work fully. Maybe from an ease of use standpoint Id like to see the stealth at the end but, I can also get used to this way I just gotta be aware not to botch that and ill be fine.

> > >

> > > Well, by its very nature it's kinda poor design when compared to stealth on kneel. You're burning two of a thief's active defenses at the same time (dodge/stealth) for something half as effective. It's clear they did it in order to get rid of the ammo counter on kneel but, it doesn't really work out the way it should. It's almost too much risk to stealth this way and so I find myself relying on other methods instead.

> >

> > That's a huge problem. Right now all of your dps depends on your other class resources. You build malice super fast and lose it all with 1 ability. So your elite skill needs to give stealth, your heal skill needs to give stealth (and needs to be used as a damage cooldown), your dodges need to be used as a damage resource, and any utility skill that gives stealth basically. They just tied everything around stealth and took away our ability to choose how we build a deadeye because our main class mechanic for damage is now tied to stealth.

>

> Thats not fair to the devs, if were looking at the way dodge/stealth thing works I don't think it was meant to be something as our only means of escape. If were trying to mitigate damage dogding is just fine the stealth is only a bonus that we can now turn into offense. We don't need to stack stealth utility because of it. On top of that Meld still has 2 counts and the heal stealth which most of the time I find myself using those defensively in PvP and PvE.

>

> Because M7 which grants Vigor which meand we will always have that dodge roll availble to us for defense and offense when we need it. I really don't feel like im burning resources doing it to attack or dodge.

>

> Also if we don't want to use stealth and save our dodges we have kneel 4 which is very good and under utilized right now. So in some situations just try kneel 4, it last quite awhile. If need be you can DR in it for more stealth and its a defensive option that doesnt use endurance.

>

> We have options and various ways were just used to the old way we gotta adapt

 

It's more complicated than that. It's not JUST that it makes us choose between losing a dodge to get an offensive damage boost or losing a stealth in order to dodge... it's that even the offensive boost is questionable because the stealth activates at the beginning of the dodge. What that means is that if you were auto-attacking with rifle, and you dodge to stealth so that you can DJ (losing the defensive utility of a dodge in the process), then the projectile from your auto finishes traveling to the target and immediately reveals you. Now you've used a dodge, and a stealth opportunity, and also gained no offensive boost from it at all, wasting three opportunities all at once. I am fine with something being risk reward, but right now the "reward" is too buggy to be worth the opportunity cost of using it in the first place.

[Turk.5460]

I like the new silent scope far better than the old one since I like being mobile with rifle and generally don't kneel. However, I wish it would give stealth at the *end* of the dodge instead of the beginning. As it stands, if you have Be Quick or Be Killed, your auto attack will reveal you immediately upon gaining stealth from the dodge - before you can even use DJ.

[Sojourner.4621]

> @"Elxdark.9702" said:

> **Warning** this thread isn't about how op or how trash the changes are, it's only to show personal opinions and feedback for future changes (PvP).

> I know, it has been only one day but I can already tell what's good, what's wrong and what's terrible.

>

> **Malice:**

> Good idea, bad implementation(again) yes it's faster and what? the fact that you made it relying in ONE TRAIT is dumb.

> At the moment you can get full malice in 2 attacks + mark if you take Malicious Intent so that's like 3-4 seconds, but it isn't rewarding anymore IF you don't use a certain trait.

> Maleficent Seven, the fact that you removed Perfecionist and added into this trait makes it almost a must at least in pvp. Why would I take Be Quick or Be Killed? if I can get malice so fast that it doesn't make any sense to not take MS.

> So if you don't take MS all you do is get full malice proc the stealth attack and you don't have initiative to repeat the same process.

> If you take MS you do the same while gettings boons AND you will be able to do the same combo again because you will have enough initiative.

 

I disagree, running the Crit Strikes/Trickery/Deadeye build, you can gain 5 malice stacks in less than one second with Be Quick or Be Killed, just using the standard D/P Black Powder/Heartseeker combo. That means you immediately have 9% damage from initiative expense, 50% damage boost to Malicious Backstab, at least 5% damage boost from Premeditation (Fury, Might, Swiftness, Vigor from Trickery traitline, and Quickness from Be Quick, more if you steal boons cause trickery) and 10% from the mark itself for a total of a 74% damage boosted quickened backstab in 1.5 seconds from mark to backstab hit. In most cases this will be MUCH better than having M7 trait equipped because it takes more than twice as long to get just two extra stacks of malice, as well as more initiative spent.

 

> **Traits:**

> good = Malicious Intent - Premeditation - Maleficent Seven

> ok = Iron Sight - Be Quick or Be Killed

> bad = the rest

>

> **Silent scope**, no no no no no and no revert this right now or give it a new functionality and let us stealth with kneel without traits.

> It feels weird, clunky and wrong to use this trait in any situation. We lost our opener and position which are the most important things Deadeye had, it was the opener and position because otherwise it's food to anyone with a brain.

> Please this is the trait that is giving me depression because it's so bad, I simply don't understand why you changed it, it was perfect it didn't need anything.

> Please revert it, we lost the opener and position before fight and that's a huge impact in pvp as a Deadeye unless you want us to take any stealth utility which is still not enough.

> The only time this works is when you're in the middle of the fight and you get pressured, for everything else it's terrible.

 

This could mostly be fixed by making it stealth at the end of the dodge instead of the beginning. Quickened auto-attacks almost gaurantee that your projectile will unstealth you the moment you stealth as it currently stands. I do prefer the stealth being on kneel, however, and they could balance it by giving it a 6s cooldown or bringing back the ammo and reverting entirely.

 

>

> **Rifle:**

> You give us DJ intead of CB and I liked it, I mean I can actually use DJ now in pvp.

> The fact we have to rely in stealth attack makes this change weird, because yeah you made it unblockable but at the same time it's so obvious and easy to dodge that most of the time you will miss it unless you're fighting bots.

> Sniper's cover, its only good use is for stealth combo nothing else.

 

Sniper's Cover is situational for sure. I can see it being helpful vs the much longer range longbow rangers Deadeye rifle was having trouble with before in wvw but not much else.

[Zephyr.5382]

Couldn't agree more!

[Elxdark.9702]

> @"Sojourner.4621" said:

> > @"Elxdark.9702" said:

> > **Warning** this thread isn't about how op or how trash the changes are, it's only to show personal opinions and feedback for future changes (PvP).

> > I know, it has been only one day but I can already tell what's good, what's wrong and what's terrible.

> >

> > **Malice:**

> > Good idea, bad implementation(again) yes it's faster and what? the fact that you made it relying in ONE TRAIT is dumb.

> > At the moment you can get full malice in 2 attacks + mark if you take Malicious Intent so that's like 3-4 seconds, but it isn't rewarding anymore IF you don't use a certain trait.

> > Maleficent Seven, the fact that you removed Perfecionist and added into this trait makes it almost a must at least in pvp. Why would I take Be Quick or Be Killed? if I can get malice so fast that it doesn't make any sense to not take MS.

> > So if you don't take MS all you do is get full malice proc the stealth attack and you don't have initiative to repeat the same process.

> > If you take MS you do the same while gettings boons AND you will be able to do the same combo again because you will have enough initiative.

>

> I disagree, running the Crit Strikes/Trickery/Deadeye build, you can gain 5 malice stacks in less than one second with Be Quick or Be Killed, just using the standard D/P Black Powder/Heartseeker combo. That means you immediately have 9% damage from initiative expense, 50% damage boost to Malicious Backstab, at least 5% damage boost from Premeditation (Fury, Might, Swiftness, Vigor from Trickery traitline, and Quickness from Be Quick, more if you steal boons cause trickery) and 10% from the mark itself for a total of a 74% damage boosted quickened backstab in 1.5 seconds from mark to backstab hit. In most cases this will be MUCH better than having M7 trait equipped because it takes more than twice as long to get just two extra stacks of malice, as well as more initiative spent.

>

> > **Traits:**

> > good = Malicious Intent - Premeditation - Maleficent Seven

> > ok = Iron Sight - Be Quick or Be Killed

> > bad = the rest

> >

> > **Silent scope**, no no no no no and no revert this right now or give it a new functionality and let us stealth with kneel without traits.

> > It feels weird, clunky and wrong to use this trait in any situation. We lost our opener and position which are the most important things Deadeye had, it was the opener and position because otherwise it's food to anyone with a brain.

> > Please this is the trait that is giving me depression because it's so bad, I simply don't understand why you changed it, it was perfect it didn't need anything.

> > Please revert it, we lost the opener and position before fight and that's a huge impact in pvp as a Deadeye unless you want us to take any stealth utility which is still not enough.

> > The only time this works is when you're in the middle of the fight and you get pressured, for everything else it's terrible.

>

> This could mostly be fixed by making it stealth at the end of the dodge instead of the beginning. Quickened auto-attacks almost gaurantee that your projectile will unstealth you the moment you stealth as it currently stands. I do prefer the stealth being on kneel, however, and they could balance it by giving it a 6s cooldown or bringing back the ammo and reverting entirely.

>

> >

> > **Rifle:**

> > You give us DJ intead of CB and I liked it, I mean I can actually use DJ now in pvp.

> > The fact we have to rely in stealth attack makes this change weird, because yeah you made it unblockable but at the same time it's so obvious and easy to dodge that most of the time you will miss it unless you're fighting bots.

> > Sniper's cover, its only good use is for stealth combo nothing else.

>

> Sniper's Cover is situational for sure. I can see it being helpful vs the much longer range longbow rangers Deadeye rifle was having trouble with before in wvw but not much else.

 

The backstab situation you described is in the most favorable scenario, and if you don't kill your enemy what you gonna do? if you fail your backstab (which is highly possible) you don't have anymore pressure besides spamming 3 because AA is a joke.

I'm not saying that it doesn't work.. but most of the time people have dodges/blocks/invul etc etc which is why I don't like d/p with this new malice system because I feel it is the most obvious weapon set to dodge and predict since it relies heavily in backstabs and AA while sword can spam 3 and get malice faster since it's safer.

[Sojourner.4621]

> @"Elxdark.9702" said:

> > @"Sojourner.4621" said:

> > > @"Elxdark.9702" said:

> > > **Warning** this thread isn't about how op or how trash the changes are, it's only to show personal opinions and feedback for future changes (PvP).

> > > I know, it has been only one day but I can already tell what's good, what's wrong and what's terrible.

> > >

> > > **Malice:**

> > > Good idea, bad implementation(again) yes it's faster and what? the fact that you made it relying in ONE TRAIT is dumb.

> > > At the moment you can get full malice in 2 attacks + mark if you take Malicious Intent so that's like 3-4 seconds, but it isn't rewarding anymore IF you don't use a certain trait.

> > > Maleficent Seven, the fact that you removed Perfecionist and added into this trait makes it almost a must at least in pvp. Why would I take Be Quick or Be Killed? if I can get malice so fast that it doesn't make any sense to not take MS.

> > > So if you don't take MS all you do is get full malice proc the stealth attack and you don't have initiative to repeat the same process.

> > > If you take MS you do the same while gettings boons AND you will be able to do the same combo again because you will have enough initiative.

> >

> > I disagree, running the Crit Strikes/Trickery/Deadeye build, you can gain 5 malice stacks in less than one second with Be Quick or Be Killed, just using the standard D/P Black Powder/Heartseeker combo. That means you immediately have 9% damage from initiative expense, 50% damage boost to Malicious Backstab, at least 5% damage boost from Premeditation (Fury, Might, Swiftness, Vigor from Trickery traitline, and Quickness from Be Quick, more if you steal boons cause trickery) and 10% from the mark itself for a total of a 74% damage boosted quickened backstab in 1.5 seconds from mark to backstab hit. In most cases this will be MUCH better than having M7 trait equipped because it takes more than twice as long to get just two extra stacks of malice, as well as more initiative spent.

> >

> > > **Traits:**

> > > good = Malicious Intent - Premeditation - Maleficent Seven

> > > ok = Iron Sight - Be Quick or Be Killed

> > > bad = the rest

> > >

> > > **Silent scope**, no no no no no and no revert this right now or give it a new functionality and let us stealth with kneel without traits.

> > > It feels weird, clunky and wrong to use this trait in any situation. We lost our opener and position which are the most important things Deadeye had, it was the opener and position because otherwise it's food to anyone with a brain.

> > > Please this is the trait that is giving me depression because it's so bad, I simply don't understand why you changed it, it was perfect it didn't need anything.

> > > Please revert it, we lost the opener and position before fight and that's a huge impact in pvp as a Deadeye unless you want us to take any stealth utility which is still not enough.

> > > The only time this works is when you're in the middle of the fight and you get pressured, for everything else it's terrible.

> >

> > This could mostly be fixed by making it stealth at the end of the dodge instead of the beginning. Quickened auto-attacks almost gaurantee that your projectile will unstealth you the moment you stealth as it currently stands. I do prefer the stealth being on kneel, however, and they could balance it by giving it a 6s cooldown or bringing back the ammo and reverting entirely.

> >

> > >

> > > **Rifle:**

> > > You give us DJ intead of CB and I liked it, I mean I can actually use DJ now in pvp.

> > > The fact we have to rely in stealth attack makes this change weird, because yeah you made it unblockable but at the same time it's so obvious and easy to dodge that most of the time you will miss it unless you're fighting bots.

> > > Sniper's cover, its only good use is for stealth combo nothing else.

> >

> > Sniper's Cover is situational for sure. I can see it being helpful vs the much longer range longbow rangers Deadeye rifle was having trouble with before in wvw but not much else.

>

> The backstab situation you described is in the most favorable setting, and if you don't kill your enemy what you gonna do? if you fail your backstab (which is highly possible) you don't have anymore pressure besides spamming 3 because AA is a joke.

> I'm not saying that it doesn't work.. but most of the time people have dodges/blocks/invul etc etc which is why I don't like d/p with this new malice system because I feel it is the most obvious weapon set to dodge and predict since it relies heavily in backstabs and AA while sword can spam 3 and get malice faster since it's safer.

 

You do of course lose the teleport from steal to help land your backstab, but D/P should be using things like Shadow Shot hit-cancelling or SS/Backstab enabling, baiting blocks and full counters, etc. anyway. I do ofc like the Sword/Dagger setup, especially these days being so Chrono/Scourge/Firebrand heavy but if I see a thief on the other team I will almost always swap to D/P which hard counters the Sw/D setup every time. Used to be I was doing that on DD, now I might actually start doing that on DE instead. M7 is prolly better for Sw/D now, I can see where that would be the case, but I'll still probably use BQoBK for D/P cases.

[Bezerker.2379]

My issue is that I did NOT play a stealth rifle build. I played an unforgiving rifle stun build. My gameplay changed drastically.

 

The only issue I have with this patch is sword's stealth attack from DE is terrible. The only time I would want to use it is when I want toregen endurance so i can swap back to rifle and dodge stealth for DJ, but using it will eat all my malice anyway. *tableflip*

[Urejt.5648]

My extra feedback:

* Why did u buff all stolen skills from Mark, exept thief's stolen skill? Old one gave fury and blindness. Patch buffed only duaration of fury, but no duration of blind. i owuld love to see **one second longer blind**.

* All first choosable trait for deadeye are very weak, like no value in pvp.

[LadyKitty.6120]

Kitty now tested rest of pure DPS deadeye builds and she got this kind of results (don't mind the %s, Kitty's using 34k as fixed point to compare her results to):

Power Deadeye 28255 (Dagger+Dagger)83%

Power Deadeye 26941 (Dagger+Dagger Auto-attack+HS+SF+Mark)79%

Power Thief 25611 (Dagger+Dagger)75%

Power Deadeye 25168 (Rifle)74%

Power Deadeye 24426 (Sword/X Auto-Attack+SF+Mark)72%

Power Deadeye 23555 (Sword/Dagger Rotation)69%

Power Deadeye 21541 (Pistol/Pistol)63%

Power Thief 21468 (Pistol/Pistol)63%

Power Deadeye 20843 (Sword/Pistol Pistol Whips)61%

Power Thief 19942 (Sword/X Auto-Attack)59%

Power Deadeye 17611 (Pistol/Dagger)51%

 

So, one could say that sword does need a boost, especially to Pistol Whip and stealth attack as they're currently pure DPS nerfs for little utility (well, they have CC and Pistol Whip has that rooting evade, but even then auto-attacking shouldn't be the best choice, right?). Rifle DE really needs to have that stealth fixed as it's currently very difficult to pull a pure rotation on it due to either rifle 3's last hit or auto-attack throwing out of stealth before dodge roll even finishes. Well, Kitty was able to pull it off during testing, but there's not a slightest chance she's perform even 2/3 as well in real gameplay situation.

[Funky.4861]

I thought it worked like this:

 

1. Mark your target

2. Use initiative-skills to generate malice (you can do this whilst kneeling, or kneel whenever you want)

3. Dodge-roll whilst kneeling to gain 3sec of stealth with the silent scope trait (or just enter stealth, you don't need silent scope)

4. Once stealthed, your autoattack flips to the stealth attack and you can use Death's Judgement, preferably on your marked target. Note that you do not automatically use Death's Judgement, you have to press '1' (or whatever keybind/mouse button you use for that skill).

5. When it hits, all of your stored malice is used up and you are revealed.

 

So you basically have 3secs to hit your target once you have dodged into stealth when using the silent scope trait.

 

The thing is that Death's Judgement is not a kneel skill anymore, it's just the stealth attack of the rifle; the only condition to access the skill is that you are stealthed. However, I don't know what happens to the projectile if you are revealed before it hits its target...

 

[Sarge shot Grif.6450]

I had to turn off my auto attack, someone else mentioned fixing this issue by having the stealth occur at the end of the dodge.

[MakubeC.3026]

I think it is a little early for me to give feedback. I'll reserve this spot for later this weekend.

But I can instantly agree on Burst of Shadow. They should make it so that it triggers at 50% with a good cooldown per target.

Also, Payback is too conservative right now. Good idea, just needs a hefty increase.

 

[Zephyr.5382]

> @"LadyKitty.6120" said:

> Kitty now tested rest of pure DPS deadeye builds and she got this kind of results (don't mind the %s, Kitty's using 34k as fixed point to compare her results to):

 

Thanks for testing this!

[Phosphorite.6192]

> @"LadyKitty.6120" said:

> Kitty now tested rest of pure DPS deadeye builds and she got this kind of results (don't mind the %s, Kitty's using 34k as fixed point to compare her results to):

 

Thanks for the testing. Would you be able to do the same for Condi builds?