Deadeye Rework: Feedback [Merged]

[saerni.2584]

Using torment runes and the now 4 stacks of torment on Shadow Strike the ability does up to 6.2k moving damage in sPvP.

 

WvW stats are still variable but it should be possible to hit upwards of 10k per strike. Moving towards a torment based setup may be the best choice on P/D now with some extra crit rate.

[Cougre.6543]

Depending on how long you wouldn't be revealed upon stealthing, as per your suggestion, this might cause problems with stealth attacks that do not reveal you. Make it too short and you will still be revealed by attacks that hit shortly after stealthing.

[ProfessorMaximustheGrapist]

So is P/P now worse than Rifle in PvE? Anyone have a build yet?

I would try things myself but I wouldn't know where to start, or which two Specializations to go with DE.

[Belishine.7493]

The idea of the changes sounded sooo good on paper but when implamented it turned out clunky so i gess we back at stage one agen i think anet just hates thief in general.

[Belishine.7493]

for me dd de is way wors then the old de build so agen im in a state of thief is no fun for me

[CreedOfGod.9764]

Request:

Mostly from WvW perspective, having that 1 second stun really helped when dueling people or chasing down targets, especially with their mobility compared to deadeye. Payback is a good trait for PvE, but isn't insanely good for small skirmishes unless people are dropping like flies (big fights). Players are not always easy to kill, so this trait has no purpose in a fight, please return the functionality of the 1 second stun (first hit on a marked target) to add some in-fight relevance.

 

Reasoning:

I play d/p + shortbow deadeye. The new malicious backstab changes are awesome! The downside to the new traits is out of the middle row, I have either Silent scope (i dont use rifle), payback (good in outnumbered/big fights, IF you can get kills, no in-fight relevance) and Premeditation ( concentration+ damage per boon). Premeditation is pretty much the go to, but you miss out on a lot of it's power unless you take Maleficent Seven for boons at max malice. I normally take Be Quick or Be Killed for the quickness, and i find 7 malice takes too many resources to build up on a melee deadeye(WvW). Please add the 1 second stun to payback to give it use in a fight :)

[Zephyr.5382]


 

Personally, I'm back to my P/P build and trying my best to salvage the wreckage that was the 5/8 patch.

[Hoodie.1045]

> @"Zephyr.5382" said:

> Personally, I'm back to my P/P build and trying my best to salvage the wreckage that was the 5/8 patch.

 

Or you could grow a pair and start playing s/d or d/p like a man instead of being a coward who uses p/p.

[Zephyr.5382]

> @"ProfessorMaximustheGrapist.9087" said:

> So is P/P now worse than Rifle in PvE? Anyone have a build yet?

> I would try things myself but I wouldn't know where to start, or which two Specializations to go with DE.

 

I switched back to P/P but haven't changed a thing from my rifle build (DA, CS, DE), other than DE traits that were reworked/moved. We got a front-loaded damage boost (+10% from Iron Sight, +1% per unique boon from Premeditation), but our overall DPS is down across the board, according to multiple benchmarks I've seen.

[babazhook.6805]

> @"ProfessorMaximustheGrapist.9087" said:

> So is P/P now worse than Rifle in PvE? Anyone have a build yet?

> I would try things myself but I wouldn't know where to start, or which two Specializations to go with DE.

 

P/P saw a slight dip In SINGULAR attacks only if you traited MALI 7 prior to changes. If you were in BqobK there no real damage loss. When I refer to singular attacks in Mali 7 it about the invidual damage of each shot from the unload. With the new specs you will get more unloads and in particular when you maximize rotation for the same. In tests I have found that in a 20 second period in PVE you can generate ~20 plus extra initiative in a 20 second period when you mix in stealth attacks with regular attacks. This gives far more unloads and akin to doubling up INI regen.

 

This INI regain will be higher in PvE as you can more reliably hit a target. You will run full might stacks full time and can stay in battle against mobs much longer then before where you would have to pull back when ini depleted. Getting to MALI 7 in PVE is done in about 3 unloads at 3 INI each this instantly getting you back 7 INI with boons. You stealth here via Smeld to unload malice and reset the malice 7 counter for another 7 ini after 3 unloads plus boons.

 

IF you are running other sources of Boon duration in the build you can in fact get an overlap occuring on those boons gained.

 

 

[babazhook.6805]

> @"saerni.2584" said:

> Using torment runes and the now 4 stacks of torment on Shadow Strike the ability does up to 6.2k moving damage in sPvP.

>

> WvW stats are still variable but it should be possible to hit upwards of 10k per strike. Moving towards a torment based setup may be the best choice on P/D now with some extra crit rate.

 

Fire for effect is now more important to a Condition build with that added fury. The way I see it you need to get around 30 percent Crit rate in order to get the Mali build to a reasonable level. What can happen a lot is that your target is dropped or lost before you get there. Another change in gameplay needed in that prior to changes one could pop in and out of stealth at well so as to get that sneak attack off. Without a reasonable crit rate you will find yourself dumping potential Torment stacks if you do that too often so you have to be a little more deliberate abouth when you use sneak attack. In theory if you do NOT want malice dumped you can switch off targets from the mark.

 

Malicious intent is much more important to a Condi build than to a power build. If you are going to switch to a Torment focus you would likely drop spider venom in favor of Skale and take Improv over the Potent Poison.

[Morfeus.5248]

Thank you, you've devastated the Deadeye. In PvP is useless now, the 4 absolutely senseless in PvP, the new system of stealth on the Dodge is absolutely unfunctional. By removing the 4 you have reduced the damage too. Already before they took you you were doomed now it is utterly unplayable. If you want PvP to play the usual three or four classes then be at least sincere in saying so you uninstall the game and you do something else. Thanks again

[Zephyr.5382]

> @"Zalavaaris.5329" said:

>

> I'm pretty sure them mentioning dps means they weren't talking about pvp. But that's just my assumption .

 

Thank you. We need more distinction between PvE and PvP/WvW ramifications.

[Morfeus.5248]

In PvP also when you go in stealth sometimes you stay reported on the mini-map making invisibility useless. I am very disappointed by this disproportionate nerf compared to other classes that have remained unbalanced for a long time. See Mesmer Warrior and Necro.

[TwiceDead.1963]

Bit of a blanket statement that... It's not really true either.

For example, D/D and P/P is in a better place than it was pre-patch, and we're talking PvE here yeah? So no, Deadeye as an elite traitline, is not objectively worse overall than it was before, it improved other weaponsets in some areas. Condi-Deadeye also got some improvements, albeit it also received some nerfs to my personal build (rip Periphal Vision condi-nukes).

 

If you're talking about Rifle, then that's another matter.

[Stinja.9612]

I absolutely hate the new version of dead-eye in all capacities its flow of play feels awful, it made rifle a weapon that was fun to use straight trash, and it does feel like it was poorly tested/thought out. Though keep in mind folks, "Thanks for the detailed feedback. We'll keep this in mind for future adjustments." that's just how Robert talks, it is not said in some dismissive manner, he actually means it, he does care. Sure it sucks but there's always other games or classes to play i guess while we wait.

[Morfeus.5248]

You always don't end up like the respondent, the problem from my point of view is that it allowed a different way of playing the PvP making it a bit more varied, so it's staggering compared to the other classes. I tried to pass from the Berserker to Marauder but the damage suffers too much. Practically it is almost impossible to use the 5. Then I state that I used it in Permastealth thing that having 11k of life allowed me to survive. Anyway so it was a lot of fun to play even though it was hard to make it progress beyond the gold division. Also because many classes have a chance to defend themselves from remote attacks. War Shield, Mesmer invulnerability and evade several more ghost clones, Guardian Mantra utility and the 3rd of the second book...

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

solution to the projectiles hitting revealing you as you cast DJ...

 

make the new Kneel cover skill 4 a F3 skill that costs initative and put DJ back where the hell it was and bring back cursed bullet.

[Armaelus.6120]

I d rather like make the new kneel cover skill 4 being on passive trait : when kneeling (kneel skill 5 ), it make instantly the screen smoke in front of the player !

[Tamurello Mistmind.5912]

> @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

 

> Thanks for the detailed feedback. We'll keep this in mind for future adjustments.<

 

You patched but didn't realise what you were doing didn't work????

Well done, this clearly shows you didn't even consider rifle DE when you came up with this crap.

 

 

 

[saerni.2584]

> @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > @"saerni.2584" said:

> > Using torment runes and the now 4 stacks of torment on Shadow Strike the ability does up to 6.2k moving damage in sPvP.

> >

> > WvW stats are still variable but it should be possible to hit upwards of 10k per strike. Moving towards a torment based setup may be the best choice on P/D now with some extra crit rate.

>

> Fire for effect is now more important to a Condition build with that added fury. The way I see it you need to get around 30 percent Crit rate in order to get the Mali build to a reasonable level. What can happen a lot is that your target is dropped or lost before you get there. Another change in gameplay needed in that prior to changes one could pop in and out of stealth at well so as to get that sneak attack off. Without a reasonable crit rate you will find yourself dumping potential Torment stacks if you do that too often so you have to be a little more deliberate abouth when you use sneak attack. In theory if you do NOT want malice dumped you can switch off targets from the mark.

>

> Malicious intent is much more important to a Condi build than to a power build. If you are going to switch to a Torment focus you would likely drop spider venom in favor of Skale and take Improv over the Potent Poison.

 

I’m leaning away from MI because OitC adds more stolen skill flexibility in concert with FfE. Altogether I’m aiming for a hybrid of poison and torment rather than completely dropping poison out of the build. This makes retaining Potent Poison well worth it to achieve parity on the duration bonus. (But I might drop this if the damage loss is made up for through additional might application).

 

Mark, Binding Shadow and Body Shot (to a limited extent) provide poison pressure. But the unsplit Shadow Strike and newish Dancing Dagger are reason to favor extra torment duration. Potent Poison and a Venom Sigil + Expertise make the poison duration sufficient enough in my opinion justify using Torment Runes for 45%+ boosts to P/D’s Shadow Strike and Dancing Dagger.

 

The torment runes effect on Malicious Sneak Attack is what I’m interested in. Assuming the 1 second duration per malice goes to the baseline then there is a good chance for a solid advantage. On the other hand, if it is a flat bonus applied after the duration bonuses then torment duration doesn’t really help the attack very much at all.

[Delweyn.1309]

> @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

> > @"TheMaskedGamer.5708" said:

> > I have found and issue while attempting to do a combo with the new Deadeye. I really enjoy the new Silent Scope trait that allows you to go to stealth after a dodge roll. Makes a great opportunity to dish out your stealth attacks immediately after. However, I've found an issue when attempting to do that with the rifle.

> >

> > The issue comes with the nature of projectiles taking their time to hit the target. In the combo, I of course would Mark the target, use Iniciative skills to charge Malice, go to stealth specifically the Slient Scope dodge roll to stealth, then attempt to use the new Stealth Attack, Death's Judgement. However, if doing this at maximum range(kneeling or otherwise), the autoattacks takes about a second to hit the enemy target. Within that second I roll in order to stealth and use the stealth skill, but by the time I go to stealth, the autoattack projectile finally hits the target. The issue is that once that projectile hits, it reveals me before I could use the Stealth Skill. It cancels out my stealth.

> >

> > Now I've heard that persisting attacks (as an example on Longbow Ranger, use the AoE skill 5, and then try to use Skill 3 to stealth, but gets revealed immediately since targets are getting hit.) or attacks that take its time to reach the enemy cause this problem. There should be a fix to eliminate this issue. Like any attack or skill persistent or not that comes out before stealth should not reveal you.

> >

> > Hope this feedback helps.

>

> Thanks for the detailed feedback. We'll keep this in mind for future adjustments.

 

Come on ... you know the "problem" since day one of the game...

 

But in this specific case, as the stealth comes with a dodge, you could maybe introduce an new stealth mecanic. As you are invincible during dodge anyway, make the stealth "unstealthable" for 1.5 sec or something like this.

[Delweyn.1309]

I think there are 3 main problems :

 

1- The malice fonction is not a working well mecanic

so, Instead spending malice with the stealth attacks only, it could increase or give new effects to some skills.

so, instead forcing players to go invisible to use malice, malice could be used to give stealth for x sec depending of the malice stack or increase power of existing skills.

 

---> so keep the new malice gain system but with the old ambush and malice use system.

Like this, you will still reduce the spe capacity to do big damages + stealth in opening.

 

2- The defensive trait on dodge

as the stealth goes with a dodge, you could create a specific mecanic for this trait only, that give stealth unbreakable for 1 or 1.5 sec., even if one of our bullet hit a player.

Blizzard had the same problem in wow and it was solved with this solution.

 

3 - Now there is absolutly nothing against reflects and barriers.

You removed the stealth cursed bullet. Even with it, deadeyes had very limited possibilities against a guard or engi bunker.

[Sharps.4195]

I am talking about rifle, PvE. IMO, the saving grace of kneel was the ability to roll out of danger and keep DPSing. With the new system, we have to use utility CD's, un-kneel, or just sit there and take the damage waiting for our malice count to be just right so we can roll. In addition to the flying projectiles revealing us mid-roll about half of the time, which makes the annoyance have zero payoff. All of this adds up to a more complex system, with less burst, and less dps.

[TwiceDead.1963]

@"Sharps.4195"

 

Yeah, they kinda shafted PvE Rifle with this change. This is a problem with their policy of being unwilling to split between PvP and PvE modes aside from minor stat differences in order to make the two versions "Feel" similar, when the problem is that they don't play similarly at all. A human opponent is a way different beast than some raid boss going through the motions. Their intentions are good there, but they are underestimating their players ability to adapt between gamemodes.