Change the function of Embrace the Darkness

[Huskyboy.1053]

**This is a sPvP-only thread, please refrain from commenting about WvW or PvE.**

 

---

 

#Why It's Currently Bad

Mallyx rev is not a melee spec, it's a melee/midrange spec. Reasons why [ETD](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Embrace_the_Darkness "ETD") does not work:

* Rev lacks stance-like abilities to mitigate different types of damage. [PA](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pain_Absorption "PA") is close to Berserker Stance but the resistance is shorter, and PA has a casting time.

* Rev has less health than warrior.

* It does not have a mobile block, which allows safe kiting when under pressure.

* It does not have a healing signet or Adrenal Health to passively pulse significant healing. Warrior can have both of those active at the same.

* My melee enemies (ex. Demolisher Spellbreaker) can apply damage much quicker than the elite can.

* Since Rev doesn't have superspeed or swiftness in Mallyx, frankly it's difficult to stay in melee even if you're chasing someone. [unyielding Anguish](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unyielding_Anguish "Unyielding Anguish") would help but the aftercast ruins it.

* I have to stay in melee range for at least 5 seconds to do significant damage, all the while having my energy drained (leaving it unlikely that I can use PA if I get CCed or condibombed)

 

ETD just does not fit the condi Mallyx playstyle, which requires moving in and out of melee range. Using ETD screams "I have no energy or common sense, focus me!" whereas my melee opponents should be thinking "Hey, let's wait this out."

 

#How you can fix it

1. Make it instacast. This also allows us to use it when CCed.

2. Cause it to strip a boon every second from affected enemies, and replace the boon with a 2s single stack of burn. If no boon is stripped then no burn should be applied, players should use this _purposefully_ not just as a damage source. No more torment plz, condi rev already does 90% of its damage from high torment stacks. Literally a 1-condition clear and my "burst" is gone. It takes far too long to build significant stacks.

3. Radius should stay 240, don't want this to be oversized like Sand Savant shades.

4. Should not be unblockable, if someone wants to wait out this skill while my energy drains then that should be a choice they can make.

5. Remove stat boost, it's only useful if you camp ETD and that shouldn't be the idea.

6. Pulse superspeed (only to user not to allies).

7. Increase degen to -8. -9 or -10 will yet again result in this skill not being used, that much degen prohibits even cheap weapon skill use.

8. Give it a 10 second cooldown. That will force us to actually think hard about when to use it.

 

Gaining a high-risk high-payout boonstrip is exactly what condi Mallyx needs. The Banish Enchantment buff is nice but the 2s confusion stacks are easily waited out.

 

Either that or make it a goddamn transformation skill already à la [Mehrunes Dagon in Oblivion](

"Mehrunes Dagon in Oblivion").

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

Condi Rev's biggest issues in spvp are less its elite skill and more its lack of sustain, its legend synergy, and to some extent its damage. The abyssal chill nerf really hurt it recently and ofc all of the old retribution/shiro sustain changes. Glint is pretty much the most solid option at this point for any condi rev as well as the Herald line, since you get the F2 and free boons. I think it's unfortunately the mandatory legend and trait choice at this point just because there is NO other solid option for sustaining or buffing which is desperately needed for condi rev to be a viable option with other legends/lines. Add that to these facts that Anet REALLY wants shortbow/renegade to be the answer for condi rev's problems despite neither shortbow/kalla/or the traits having any answer to its major issues (sustain/legend synergy). Condi Rev can't really be run glass cannon; it needs defensive traits and good sustain from its legends/weapon skills to function well in pvp. Renegade is pretty much completely damage focused with no adequate personal defenses or answers to incoming enemy pressure. Shiro/Mallyx Viper worked in the past because of all the sustain Shiro + the stability from Retribution + plus an extra gap closer/good map mobility. Glint/Mallyx works okay because of the sustain from Glint, but lacks the gap closing/mobility power of old shiro/mallyx. Mallyx/Kalla/Shortbow/Renegade will never work in its current form in pvp because it can't hit its hard damage/doesn't do enough damage to make up for the massive lack of sustain compared to the above two, even after all the damage buffs.

 

As for embrace the darkness I think it can be useful, but I think it really depends on what legend and offhand weapon set you pair it with. Sword + Unrelenting Assault is the obvious best combat use for it, but it can also be used and then turned off to proc Diabolic Inferno when in range. Additionally it does help provide extra pressure against players attempting to rez. The main problem as mentioned above, though, is just the lack of meaningful options for Condi Rev as a whole now and less Embrace the Darkness. I would rather them find a way to give Mallyx/Corruption or maybe even Shiro (though that could have OP implications for power rev potentially) additional sustain options than redo Embrace the Darkness.

 

I also think the unblockable portion is okay and that it shouldn't have a cooldown, given that a 10second cooldown would limit synergy with Diabolic Inferno, which has an 8s ICD. Also a major functionality change like this would likely be changed across the board which means the skills functionality would also be changed in pve. I know you wanted to talk about pvp only, but I think since it would likely change for pve as well it's important to talk about it briefly. This would be a pretty big hit to Condi Rev's pve damage since it's part of the current rotation and the 10% stat boost + torment stacks + Diabolic Inferno does a fair amount of damage. There would definitely need to be compensation elsewhere for a functionality change like this, even if it were to perform better in pvp. I like the idea a lot in theory, but it won't fix the main issues with condi rev so I don't think it would help it that much in pvp, honestly, and it would just negatively effect it in pve :(

[Huskyboy.1053]

> @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:

> Condi Rev's biggest issues in spvp are less its elite skill and more its lack of sustain, its legend synergy, and to some extent its damage. The abyssal chill nerf really hurt it recently and ofc all of the old retribution/shiro sustain changes. Glint is pretty much the most solid option at this point for any condi rev as well as the Herald line, since you get the F2 and free boons. I think it's unfortunately the mandatory legend and trait choice at this point just because there is NO other solid option for sustaining or buffing which is desperately needed for condi rev to be a viable option with other legends/lines. Add that to these facts that Anet REALLY wants shortbow/renegade to be the answer for condi rev's problems despite neither shortbow/kalla/or the traits having any answer to its major issues (sustain/legend synergy). Condi Rev can't really be run glass cannon; it needs defensive traits and good sustain from its legends/weapon skills to function well in pvp. Renegade is pretty much completely damage focused with no adequate personal defenses or answers to incoming enemy pressure. Shiro/Mallyx Viper worked in the past because of all the sustain Shiro + the stability from Retribution + plus an extra gap closer/good map mobility. Glint/Mallyx works okay because of the sustain from Glint, but lacks the gap closing/mobility power of old shiro/mallyx. Mallyx/Kalla/Shortbow/Renegade will never work in its current form in pvp because it can't hit its hard damage/doesn't do enough damage to make up for the massive lack of sustain compared to the above two, even after all the damage buffs.

>

> As for embrace the darkness I think it can be useful, but I think it really depends on what legend and offhand weapon set you pair it with. Sword + Unrelenting Assault is the obvious best combat use for it, but it can also be used and then turned off to proc Diabolic Inferno when in range. Additionally it does help provide extra pressure against players attempting to rez. The main problem as mentioned above, though, is just the lack of meaningful options for Condi Rev as a whole now and less Embrace the Darkness. I would rather them find a way to give Mallyx/Corruption or maybe even Shiro (though that could have OP implications for power rev potentially) additional sustain options than redo Embrace the Darkness.

>

> I also think the unblockable portion is okay and that it shouldn't have a cooldown, given that a 10second cooldown would limit synergy with Diabolic Inferno, which has an 8s ICD. Also a major functionality change like this would likely be changed across the board which means the skills functionality would also be changed in pve. I know you wanted to talk about pvp only, but I think since it would likely change for pve as well it's important to talk about it briefly. This would be a pretty big hit to Condi Rev's pve damage since it's part of the current rotation and the 10% stat boost + torment stacks + Diabolic Inferno does a fair amount of damage. There would definitely need to be compensation elsewhere for a functionality change like this, even if it were to perform better in pvp. I like the idea a lot in theory, but it won't fix the main issues with condi rev so I don't think it would help it that much in pvp, honestly, and it would just negatively effect it in pve :(

 

Solid thought, I appreciate the insight. I wouldn't worry so much about it affecting PvE though, many skill splits are permanent (such as [Adrenal Health](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Adrenal_Health "Adrenal Health") and [Healing Signet](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Signet "Healing Signet")).

[Za Shaloc.3908]

I think you have some interesting ideas. The boon-corrupt, although sorta similar to Banish Enchantment, would be something that the kit currently does not have, and the superspeed is something I had never thought of before, although it may be a bit weird to have both Shiro's and Mallyx's upkeep skills giving superspeed. I do definitely think Embrace the Darkness needs something, though. I find it quite boring and uninspired. I have been thinking that using EtD as a transformation that enhances the other Mallyx skills would be cool and beneficial. This is my rough idea. Keep in mind that when I play Mallyx, I usually use it as a boon-ripper or resistance-spammer in WvW, so my experience with a legit dps condi Mallyx is not very good. My idea would first require a change to Unyielding Anguish. It would be split into two skills.>1. Unyielding Anguish: "Create a demonic field at the targeted area that torments and chills foes." This no longer causes you to leap to the affected area. Reduced energy to 20. Cast time has been reduced to 0.5 seconds. Power damage scaling has been increased.>2. Demonic Manifestation: "Consume yourself into the darkness, shadowstepping to your currently active "Unyielding Anguish"." Energy cost: 10. Cast time 0.25 seconds.This would give Mallyx Revs more zone control without forcing them to be in the fray. Having the leap become a shadowstep would help with vertical mobility, which non-Shiro Revs struggle with quite a bit. Transferring some of the energy cost to the shadowstep would also make it more energy-efficient if you choose to only use the first skill.Embrace the Darkness would then completely change functionality:

EMBRACE THE DARKNESS5 Energy, 2 Upkeep; Cast Time: 3/4 secSummon the power of the legendary demon to transform into a powerful avatar, chilling all foes around you. While transformed, your other Legendary Demon Stance skills are enhanced. Heal yourself for every condition you apply.Initial Hit: AoE Chill [3s] (240 Radius, 5 Targets)Heal: ~50 per condition (Ballpark estimate. Per condition meaning 4x of torment = 200 health gained)Enhanced Skills:>* Empowering Misery: Gain might [3x] per condition currently active on you upon healing.>* Pain Absorption: Also applies protection [3s]>* Banish Enchantment: When reaching the target, this skill explodes, removing boons from foes in the surrounding area. (Radius 240. Targets: 5)>* Unyielding Anguish: Increase range by 300. Increase radius by 60.>* Demonic Manifestation: Increase range by 300. Applies burn [4s] and slow [2s] to foes in your field.Something like that. Again, I don't really play dps Mallyx Rev, so my idea could be totally broken. Just wanted to put my idea out there.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

Why not revert it back to the pre-release state? Wasn't it at one point meant to apply Torment and COPY conditions you have on yourself to enemies? Something like that could be great. Remove the 10% stat boast and increase the energy upkeep to -10 to make it something that cant be spammed as often.

[Carighan.6758]

As always I can only really add that I don't feel any Revenant issue can be fixed on a per-skill or even per-legend level.

 

That is to say, the issues are more systemic. Partially even dependent upon the resolution of deeper game-wide issues such as spamminess of combat which in turn results from individual weak skill effects which in turn causes overloaded skill effect sets (especially once traits and sigils are included).

 

But even just with the class, the legend idea switches play context. Ventari is for healing. Jalis is quite obviously meant to be "tanky". Mallyx spreads conditions. And so on. Yet the underlying game-/character-design of GW2 does not support such a context-switch. Hence to make it work and even provide a foundation upon which to balance each legend (and in turn their elite skills), I would first modify the legends themselves to provide the switching-aspect even in the absence of support from the rest of the game.

 

Would it be balanced against other classes? Most certainly not during a fight, overall it could be because while we could swap role in combat, they have >30 skills to pick from out of combat. But it'd still be better than the design mess we are in now :disappointed:

 

[draxynnic.3719]

> @"Huskyboy.1053" said:

> > @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:

> > Condi Rev's biggest issues in spvp are less its elite skill and more its lack of sustain, its legend synergy, and to some extent its damage. The abyssal chill nerf really hurt it recently and ofc all of the old retribution/shiro sustain changes. Glint is pretty much the most solid option at this point for any condi rev as well as the Herald line, since you get the F2 and free boons. I think it's unfortunately the mandatory legend and trait choice at this point just because there is NO other solid option for sustaining or buffing which is desperately needed for condi rev to be a viable option with other legends/lines. Add that to these facts that Anet REALLY wants shortbow/renegade to be the answer for condi rev's problems despite neither shortbow/kalla/or the traits having any answer to its major issues (sustain/legend synergy). Condi Rev can't really be run glass cannon; it needs defensive traits and good sustain from its legends/weapon skills to function well in pvp. Renegade is pretty much completely damage focused with no adequate personal defenses or answers to incoming enemy pressure. Shiro/Mallyx Viper worked in the past because of all the sustain Shiro + the stability from Retribution + plus an extra gap closer/good map mobility. Glint/Mallyx works okay because of the sustain from Glint, but lacks the gap closing/mobility power of old shiro/mallyx. Mallyx/Kalla/Shortbow/Renegade will never work in its current form in pvp because it can't hit its hard damage/doesn't do enough damage to make up for the massive lack of sustain compared to the above two, even after all the damage buffs.

> >

> > As for embrace the darkness I think it can be useful, but I think it really depends on what legend and offhand weapon set you pair it with. Sword + Unrelenting Assault is the obvious best combat use for it, but it can also be used and then turned off to proc Diabolic Inferno when in range. Additionally it does help provide extra pressure against players attempting to rez. The main problem as mentioned above, though, is just the lack of meaningful options for Condi Rev as a whole now and less Embrace the Darkness. I would rather them find a way to give Mallyx/Corruption or maybe even Shiro (though that could have OP implications for power rev potentially) additional sustain options than redo Embrace the Darkness.

> >

> > I also think the unblockable portion is okay and that it shouldn't have a cooldown, given that a 10second cooldown would limit synergy with Diabolic Inferno, which has an 8s ICD. Also a major functionality change like this would likely be changed across the board which means the skills functionality would also be changed in pve. I know you wanted to talk about pvp only, but I think since it would likely change for pve as well it's important to talk about it briefly. This would be a pretty big hit to Condi Rev's pve damage since it's part of the current rotation and the 10% stat boost + torment stacks + Diabolic Inferno does a fair amount of damage. There would definitely need to be compensation elsewhere for a functionality change like this, even if it were to perform better in pvp. I like the idea a lot in theory, but it won't fix the main issues with condi rev so I don't think it would help it that much in pvp, honestly, and it would just negatively effect it in pve :(

>

> Solid thought, I appreciate the insight. I wouldn't worry so much about it affecting PvE though, many skill splits are permanent (such as [Adrenal Health](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Adrenal_Health "Adrenal Health") and [Healing Signet](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Signet "Healing Signet")).

 

The problem is that ArenaNet only splits skills so far. They'll split the numbers - damage, healing, duration and number of boons and conditions, recharges, and so on - but the basic functionality doesn't change. You can see this in the skill and trait you've referenced - the PvP versions heal for less, but otherwise they're still doing the same thing, just that one version is a little more efficient than the other. This is a deliberate decision on ArenaNet's part: they don't want players getting confused when a skill that does one thing in one mode ends up doing something entirely different in another mode.

 

As a result, any rework of Embrace the Darkness - or any other skill or trait - for PvP still has to have a functionality that makes sense in other game modes. You might be able to tweak how those functionalities are balanced: for instance, if EtD was reworked to apply conditions and strip boons, it can be balanced on the assumption that applying conditions was its main function in PvE while stripping boons was its main function in PvP, but you can't make it so that in PvP it's only useful for stripping boons, while in PvE it has some other purpose which isn't present in PvP.

 

That said, though, I've felt since the reworks of EtD and Unyielding Anguish that having two skills that fundamentally serve to convert energy into Torment stacks was redundant.

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Huskyboy.1053" said:

> **This is a sPvP-only thread, please refrain from commenting about WvW or PvE.**

>

> ---

>

> #Why It's Currently Bad

> Mallyx rev is not a melee spec, it's a melee/midrange spec. Reasons why [ETD](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Embrace_the_Darkness "ETD") does not work:

> * Rev lacks stance-like abilities to mitigate different types of damage. [PA](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pain_Absorption "PA") is close to Berserker Stance but the resistance is shorter, and PA has a casting time.

 

This move is questionable here removing the cast time means its it needs to have one of the following tacked onto it. A cooldown, A higher energy cost, shaved resistance application.

 

> * Rev has less health than warrior.

> * It does not have a mobile block, which allows safe kiting when under pressure.

#staff3

> * It does not have a healing signet or Adrenal Health to passively pulse significant healing. Warrior can have both of those active at the same.

 

I wont say much on your comparisons here because you only named things that rev does not have that warrior does but not the things that rev has that warriors do not

Just to point out a few things

2 healing skills, Generally lower cds although with energy cost, Considerably more evades depending on your weapon and legend, Better and faster gap closers

 

> * My melee enemies (ex. Demolisher Spellbreaker) can apply damage much quicker than the elite can.

> * Since Rev doesn't have superspeed or swiftness in Mallyx, frankly it's difficult to stay in melee even if you're chasing someone. [unyielding Anguish](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unyielding_Anguish "Unyielding Anguish") would help but the aftercast ruins it.

> * I have to stay in melee range for at least 5 seconds to do significant damage, all the while having my energy drained (leaving it unlikely that I can use PA if I get CCed or condibombed)

>

> ETD just does not fit the condi Mallyx playstyle, which requires moving in and out of melee range. Using ETD screams "I have no energy or common sense, focus me!" whereas my melee opponents should be thinking "Hey, let's wait this out."

 

Actually it use to fit Mallyx perfectly making you at your strongest when you had tons of conditions on your self but it was nerfed into being too weak due to players complaining about allies clearing condi's from them while trying to use it to pulse conditions back onto foes. (At the time the condition meta was high so it was very strong against alot of builds. But at the same time this means alot of players were running condition clear.

 

Anets solution was to simply remove the condition copy mechanic and put it on legend swap instead

The result was ETD lost alot of power and impact without gaining any new mechanic to replace what it had lost.

 

>

> #How you can fix it

> 1. Make it instacast. This also allows us to use it when CCed.

> 2. Cause it to strip a boon every second from affected enemies, and replace the boon with a 2s single stack of burn. If no boon is stripped then no burn should be applied, players should use this _purposefully_ not just as a damage source. No more torment plz, condi rev already does 90% of its damage from high torment stacks. Literally a 1-condition clear and my "burst" is gone. It takes far too long to build significant stacks.

This might be a bit strong and i dont know about burning. Burning seems a bit off maybe poison or something. Other than DI in the grandmaster no other part of mallyx has burning.

> 3. Radius should stay 240, don't want this to be oversized like Sand Savant shades.

> 4. Should not be unblockable, if someone wants to wait out this skill while my energy drains then that should be a choice they can make.

> 5. Remove stat boost, it's only useful if you camp ETD and that shouldn't be the idea.

 

You can leave this fuction as is if you take my considerations below into mind.

 

Every thing above sounds nice

 

> 6. Pulse superspeed (only to user not to allies).

Absolutely not that should not be a thing on ETD shiro has it for a reason thematically at best perhaps ETD can pulse chill in addition to the other ideas you listed.

 

> 7. Increase degen to -8. -9 or -10 will yet again result in this skill not being used, that much degen prohibits even cheap weapon skill use.

> 8. Give it a 10 second cooldown. That will force us to actually think hard about when to use it.

 

IF you are going to do this just make it a pulse that last for 5-6 seconds with a upfront high 40 energy cost or something and nothing more. This will encourage smart usage of ETD without over barring the user with energy drain as oppose to an up front cost.

It also prevents camping the skill for a long period of time.

 

 

 

[InsaneQR.7412]

Make it tocorrupt boons per pulse and add 1 stack of all currently applied conditions per pulse would be cool to see on this elite.

You could still stack torment with it but also burn (with trait in mind) or others like poison or bleed etc.

Stat increase is not needed thats true and insta cast would be neat.

 

[otto.5684]

The boon corruption per pulse is way over powered, even by scourge standards. Though, I think the problem with ETD is far more complex than just attaching stuff to it. You mostly need to reserve your energy of BE and UA. Even a beefer version of ETD will not work. And you have to keep PvE in mind.

 

I think if they reduce the cost to 6 from 7 and reduce cast time from 0.25 from 0.75 that could give it some useability. Absent removing resistance all together, so you are not bound to spend energy to sustain resistance, it will not be a useable skill.

[Milan.9035]

forget that elite, give me evade on malix leap

[Artorias.8271]

> @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:

> Condi Rev's biggest issues in spvp are less its elite skill and more its lack of sustain, its legend synergy, and to some extent its damage. The abyssal chill nerf really hurt it recently and ofc all of the old retribution/shiro sustain changes. Glint is pretty much the most solid option at this point for any condi rev as well as the Herald line, since you get the F2 and free boons. I think it's unfortunately the mandatory legend and trait choice at this point just because there is NO other solid option for sustaining or buffing which is desperately needed for condi rev to be a viable option with other legends/lines. Add that to these facts that Anet REALLY wants shortbow/renegade to be the answer for condi rev's problems despite neither shortbow/kalla/or the traits having any answer to its major issues (sustain/legend synergy). Condi Rev can't really be run glass cannon; it needs defensive traits and good sustain from its legends/weapon skills to function well in pvp. Renegade is pretty much completely damage focused with no adequate personal defenses or answers to incoming enemy pressure. Shiro/Mallyx Viper worked in the past because of all the sustain Shiro + the stability from Retribution + plus an extra gap closer/good map mobility. Glint/Mallyx works okay because of the sustain from Glint, but lacks the gap closing/mobility power of old shiro/mallyx. Mallyx/Kalla/Shortbow/Renegade will never work in its current form in pvp because it can't hit its hard damage/doesn't do enough damage to make up for the massive lack of sustain compared to the above two, even after all the damage buffs.

>

> As for embrace the darkness I think it can be useful, but I think it really depends on what legend and offhand weapon set you pair it with. Sword + Unrelenting Assault is the obvious best combat use for it, but it can also be used and then turned off to proc Diabolic Inferno when in range. Additionally it does help provide extra pressure against players attempting to rez. The main problem as mentioned above, though, is just the lack of meaningful options for Condi Rev as a whole now and less Embrace the Darkness. I would rather them find a way to give Mallyx/Corruption or maybe even Shiro (though that could have OP implications for power rev potentially) additional sustain options than redo Embrace the Darkness.

>

> I also think the unblockable portion is okay and that it shouldn't have a cooldown, given that a 10second cooldown would limit synergy with Diabolic Inferno, which has an 8s ICD. Also a major functionality change like this would likely be changed across the board which means the skills functionality would also be changed in pve. I know you wanted to talk about pvp only, but I think since it would likely change for pve as well it's important to talk about it briefly. This would be a pretty big hit to Condi Rev's pve damage since it's part of the current rotation and the 10% stat boost + torment stacks + Diabolic Inferno does a fair amount of damage. There would definitely need to be compensation elsewhere for a functionality change like this, even if it were to perform better in pvp. I like the idea a lot in theory, but it won't fix the main issues with condi rev so I don't think it would help it that much in pvp, honestly, and it would just negatively effect it in pve :(

 

I totally agree. Condi rev to be viable at least in pvp needs desperatly some sort of sustain. I aim to mallyx abbilities, UA is the only decent one there.

[Huskyboy.1053]

Man I don't know why all of you think condi rev needs more sustain. I have no problem 1v2ing if I kite properly. I won't win the 1v2 but I can sustain for a long time, long enough to be useful to my team. But that's with my build, maybe you all are playing glassier builds.

[ProtoMarcus.7649]

* Make it insta-cast

* Normalize the 15% attribute bonus across all game modes

* Add a minor direct damage component per pulse **and/or** add pulsing **vulnerability**

* Maybe some **movement speed** bonus or some **attack speed** bonus?

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

I would happily take: Pulsing effect, applies Torment to enemy and transfers 1 condition, 5 man target. 1second ICD. Remove the 15% stats. Its pointless

 

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> I would happily take: Pulsing effect, applies Torment to enemy and transfers 1 condition, 5 man target. 1second ICD. Remove the 15% stats. Its pointless

>

 

The 15% stats isn't pointless; in pve it does add a bit of a damage and helps give 100% condi duration. As mentioned in my above post, it's important to remember that any major functionality change will also impact the WvW and PvE versions of the skill, not just the PvP version.

[Ephemiel.5694]

_"Mallyx rev is not a melee spec, it's a melee/midrange spec"_

 

......i don't get it.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:

> The 15% stats isn't pointless; in pve it does add a bit of a damage and helps give 100% condi duration. As mentioned in my above post, it's important to remember that any major functionality change will also impact the WvW and PvE versions of the skill, not just the PvP version.

 

Isnt that a sign of a bad skill? Its NOT used for the actual condition but a pointless (for the most part) stat increase. They could have done it in a better way, like a stacking effect the more times you proc the effect on someone (with say a 1second ICD to prevent strong use against groups) that you get a stacking buff, just something to make it a little more interesting that a boring stat increase, torment is pretty much ignored because its just not a strong effect either :/

 

 

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"Ephemiel.5694" said:

> _"Mallyx rev is not a melee spec, it's a melee/midrange spec"_

>

> ......i don't get it.

 

It technically is, its just not designed very well to be melee, mid range or Melee/Mid range.

Pain Absorption STILL sucks if you are solo :/

Banish Enchantment Solid, ubnblockable, removes 3 boons (would prefer corrupt) and applies Confusion

Unyelding Anguish Rubbish! I would prefer something like Soul Spiral kinda movement, the cast time on UA destroys it as a movement skill, makes it easy to avoid because its so slow

Embrace The Darkness - Full melee, rubbish buff, crappy effect. Boring and bland.

 

 

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:

> > The 15% stats isn't pointless; in pve it does add a bit of a damage and helps give 100% condi duration. As mentioned in my above post, it's important to remember that any major functionality change will also impact the WvW and PvE versions of the skill, not just the PvP version.

>

> Isnt that a sign of a bad skill? Its NOT used for the actual condition but a pointless (for the most part) stat increase. They could have done it in a better way, like a stacking effect the more times you proc the effect on someone (with say a 1second ICD to prevent strong use against groups) that you get a stacking buff, just something to make it a little more interesting that a boring stat increase, torment is pretty much ignored because its just not a strong effect either :/

>

>

 

I wouldn't say Embrace the Darkness is a bad skill; just not ideal for pvp/wvw. To say that "it's not used for the actual condition but for the stat increase" is really to misunderstand its role in any Condition Revenant build.

 

Let's take the Invocation Renegade DPS build for example:

When swapping to Mallyx you immediately activate the skill, proccing Diabolic Inferno once. You then proceed to leave it active for 9 seconds before swapping out of Mallyx. With this in mind this means that:

 

-You have the 10% stat bonus (to condi damage/duration/power/precision/ferocity) active for nearly 50% of your entire rotation

-You pulse 9 Torment stacks every time you're in Mallyx just with this skill alone

-It's used to proc Diabolic Inferno twice, adding another 4 burn stacks to the rotation

 

Additionally:

-You get 7% extra damage from Forceful Persistence while using this upkeep

-It allows for easy use of Charged Mists, giving you another 25 energy for Kalla.

 

So no, it's not a bad skill. It's actually quite a good skill. As mentioned above it's just not amazing for pvp/wvw. HOWEVER, it isn't AWFUL for those situations either, just not ideal. Could it use a buff for those game modes? Yes. Does it need a functionality change to make it better for those game modes? Maybe, BUT if that functionality change is ONLY ideal for pvp/wvw then ALL Condition Revenant builds will take a big hit to their DPS and that certainly isn't fair to PvE or multi-game mode revenants. Any functionality change for Embrace the Darkness needs to account for its massive role in cRev rotations and DPS.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:

> I wouldn't say Embrace the Darkness is a bad skill; just not ideal for pvp/wvw. To say that "it's not used for the actual condition but for the stat increase" is really to misunderstand its role in any Condition Revenant build.

>

> Let's take the Invocation Renegade DPS build for example:

> When swapping to Mallyx you immediately activate the skill, proccing Diabolic Inferno once. You then proceed to leave it active for 9 seconds before swapping out of Mallyx. With this in mind this means that:

>

> -You have the 10% stat bonus (to condi damage/duration/power/precision/ferocity) active for nearly 50% of your entire rotation

> -You pulse 9 Torment stacks every time you're in Mallyx just with this skill alone

> -It's used to proc Diabolic Inferno twice, adding another 4 burn stacks to the rotation

>

> Additionally:

> -You get 7% extra damage from Forceful Persistence while using this upkeep

> -It allows for easy use of Charged Mists, giving you another 25 energy for Kalla.

>

> So no, it's not a bad skill. It's actually quite a good skill. As mentioned above it's just not amazing for pvp/wvw. HOWEVER, it isn't AWFUL for those situations either, just not ideal. Could it use a buff for those game modes? Yes. Does it need a functionality change to make it better for those game modes? Maybe, BUT if that functionality change is ONLY ideal for pvp/wvw then ALL Condition Revenant builds will take a big hit to their DPS and that certainly isn't fair to PvE or multi-game mode revenants. Any functionality change for Embrace the Darkness needs to account for its massive role in cRev rotations and DPS.

 

We are talking about the skill. The skill alone. You shouldn't need traits in order to make a ELITE that you CANT change into being good. The skill itself, no traits IS bad. The torment it grants is near pointless, the stat buff is pretty much the only reason its "good" and its very BORING way to have an Elite.

 

[Jarettellis.7813]

I wouldn't mind a change to ETD. Or heck, even a revert to how ETD used to be.

Celestial mallyx had insane sustain back in the day. It turned our biggest counter: conditions, into a double edged sword for us. Forcing us to get hit by conditions intentionally, with self inflicted conditions from ETD. Between the trait for heal on condi, our mallyx heal, and the DMG boost per condi on us was just insane. (Didn't mean to get derailed, was just an explanation for what's next)

 

They never really reworked mallyx (and corruption) after they changed ETD from HoT release to what it is now. A kit ( and traits) that was meant to utilize our subpar condition cleanses (and slight reprieve of PA's resistance to alleviate condition damage). But after the ETD change, they didn't review how new ETD: no condi copy, no self inflicted condis (which did heal us each pulse). Would turn a kit meant to utilize our biggest counter, which would become just a liability in spvp for the user.

 

If they did revert it, I could see celestial mallyx (or even marshal mallyx) becoming a hard counter to scourge spam. Turn the scourge's biggest strength into a huge liability. Like, do I drop all my shades and condi bombs on this mallyx Rev to turn him into an unstoppable condition monster? Or do I not face roll my keyboard and actually play strategically to counter him/her like when you stop attacking a Rev that has used Glints heal.

 

(Pardon long post. Mained Rev since HoT release and fell in love with it.)

 

[Milan.9035]

> @"Huskyboy.1053" said:

> Man I don't know why all of you think condi rev needs more sustain. I have no problem 1v2ing if I kite properly. I won't win the 1v2 but I can sustain for a long time, long enough to be useful to my team. But that's with my build, maybe you all are playing glassier builds.

 

Lol. How about you share with us your great build. Anyone can claim anything, but we need some evidence.

[narcx.3570]

Condi Rev (and Embrace) was honestly pretty decent in pre-PoF sPvP because it was all about immobile, non-bursty, condi AoE's, which was fine for point control back then... Yes people could avoid your damage, but they had to concede the point to you. It was a situation that was actually pretty close to being balanced.

 

But yeah, Scourge way outclasses it, Firebrand can negate 100% of it's damage output, and Spellbreaker can shrug off the damage while bursting you down... I would say this isn't a problem with Mallyx being bad though, but rather with the power creep being too much. The answer isn't to buff Mallyx to be able to compete with those specs, but rather to bring them back in line. Because *if* anet were to crazy buff Mallyx and made it so it could hang with Scourges and do damage through the strength of FB support, it would probably be way too strong in a lot of other areas, and then those people would complain, and then they'd get new crazy buffs, and the cycle would go on and on.

 

Revenant/Herald (not renegade) should be a baseline for balancing other specs, IMO... It's by far the most "fair" class; it does some things extremely well, it has some glaring weaknesses, and it promotes counter-play in both directions. But yeah, that makes it seem weak af when you have the aforementioned op classes--not to mention Mirages, who can literally STILL only be countered by a better Mirage outplaying them.

[Artorias.8271]

Embrace the Darkness - conditions applied to you are converted to torment, pulse torment to nearby foes every second.

 

My idea how to rework this skill. With one condition currently on you, it is possible to combo it with other traits, not only Diabolic Inferno. Combined with Pulsating Pestilence, Cleansing Channel (only one condition on swap) etc. Solves problem with high condi pressure from classes like Scourge. And it even fits to these huge spikes rising from your back, very torment like ^^