Consolidated Suggestions for DE Changes

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Specialka.7290" said:

> That way we can keep the stealth on roll (and not at the end of the roll to band aid the issue with DJ) which help in Pvp.

 

 

stealth at the beginning and end have different pros and cons and i dont think stealth at the end is worse for pvp.

**stealth at the beginning** ;

_pro_

* hides roll direction

 

_con_

 

* possible selfreveal forces you to wait till all bullets reach their target

* because the roll direction is not visible you have no controll over where your opponents think you are moving

 

**stealth at the end** ;

_pro_

* you can already evade before reveal runs out into stealth. => evade after ~2,25s reveal is a much smaller vulnerable window.

* as your opponent knows wich direction you roll, you have controll over wich direction the opponent will pay most attention to.

* no selfreveal unless you got a pulsing AoE ( i think shadow flare is the only one you need to be careful with) so you can dodge allways on incoming attacks without revealing yourself

 

_con_

 

* you opponent knows your initial stealth position and if they have the option to instantly spike AoE there it might hurt badly, but if you leave the area quickly the time they have to exploit this is really short and they have to get in range to that position first.

 

i personally think it is overall a buff for pvp if the stealth is at the end of the roll.

[Jack Redline.5379]

I have been checking lately builds and homebrews of ppl trying to find some good way to play DE. Unfortunately after the last update majory of them declared that DE is no longer playable in most game mods such as PVP or WVW and i agree. DE has low dps (now even lower than before update) and it is hard to play it. Therefore i have done my research, and after i was done with my research i have made up a rework for DE pls post ideas and oppinions under. Since Deadeye is a sniper elite for a THIEF which can be wieved as a devious and stealthy creature I will explain each part of this remake pls let me know how you like it. enjoy.

 

Weapon : Rifle : Change of attacks

 

Autoatack : Three phases not just one: 1st strike - Eagle eye: Range 1400, cost 0 ini, cast time 1/2 sec, dmg 300, applies 2 stacks of vulnerability and weakness each lasting 1,5 sec, no finisher

(your opening strike as a sniper must leave your opponent surprised and weakened)

2nd strike - Pinch: Range 1400, cost 0 ini, cast time 1/2 sec, dmg 300, applies 1 stacks of bleeding lasting 5 sec dealing dmg 285, no finisher

(this is sort of a small attack for condi builds also as a sniper you would like your foe to be bleeding if he would try to chase you)

3rd strike - Hole maker: Range 1400, cost 0 ini, cast time 1/2 sec, dmg 450, gain vigor for 1 sec and swiftness for 2 sec, no finisher

(this is the support attack for power builds also if you haven't killed your enemy with two shots the third one is there just to do a lot of dmg)

 

Kneel Autoattack: One strike - Brutal shot: Range 1580, cost 0 ini, cast time 3/4 sec, split dmg - Within 900+ dmg 500, 1200+ dmg 485, 1380+ dmg 450,

gain fury for 8 sec, after fury finshes its applicament steal 2 boons, combo finisher physical projectile

(since you are kneeling your accuracy and range must be increased, but your time to aim must be longer the fury would be caused by the fact you had to kneel to be finally able to hit the target right :) )

 

Kneel Stealth Attack the only one for rifle: Skull splitter - Range 1700, cost 2 ini, cast time 1,2 sec, split dmg - From back 945 from side or front 825, cause reveal for 5 sec, consumes all Malice, if target dies gain swiftenss and quickness for 8 sec, combo finisher physical projectile

(obviously the stealth attack must be the most powerful because you have plenty of time to aim and to fire since it is the only stealth attack for Rifle it should do a lot of dmg and also we should be rewarded if we strike down someone)

 

Second attack : Ankle breaker - Range 1400, cost 3 ini, cast time 1/2 sec, dmg 385, applies cripple for 5 sec, pierces, if the piercing bullet hits more targets gain ini for each hit target, no finisher

(as the name indicates it is attack meant to cripple your foe so he can't follow you around, the pierce ini thing is meant to help thieves fight zergs in WvW because it can happen the bullet would pierce through multiple targets so if you manage to do this you deserve something back for your skill)

 

Kneel Second attack : Hold up! - Range 1580, cost 3 ini, cast time 3/4 sec, dmg 420, applies imobile for 3 sec, gain quickness for 3 sec and vigor for 5 sec, combo finisher physical projectile

(this attack is meant for condi builds because it could be combinated with already known trait Panic Strike)

 

Third attack: Full magazine - Range 1400, cost 4 ini, cast time 3/4 sec, number of projectiles 6, dmg 235 per projectile, if all projectiles hit your target gain 6 stacks of might and swiftness for 4 seconds

(again attack supporting power builds, also helpful in situations when you need to get out quickly lets say beacause of a harrati stampeede :) )

 

Kneel third attack: KA-BAM - Range 1580, cost 4 ini, cast time 1 sec, this attack is considered as a trick, you fire an explosive bullet which after hiting target explodes, radius 300, dmg 485, knockdown all targets in radius 1 sec, combo finisher blast at the location of explosion,

(a trick shot in case you would like to say F*** you to your foe and anyone whom it might concern)

 

Fourth attack : Poisonous dart - Range 1400, cost 3 ini, cast time 3/4 sec, applies 2 stacks of poison with dmg 250 and durration 4 sec, imobilize for 1 sec

(this attack is meant as a support for condi builds since rifle could be played nicely also with condi traits)

 

Kneel fourth attack : Predator's bite - Range 1580, cost 4 ini, cast time 1sec, applies 3 stacks of poison with dmg 250 and duration 4 sec, after hitting traget the bullet explodes and fires at nearby three targets dealing the same condi to them, loose 1 stack of might each cast of this attack.

(a powerful condi attack for a price of your own might)

 

Fifth attack : K.O. - Range 900, cost 5 ini, cast time 1/2 sec, break stun you leap to your foe and strike him with your rifle over the head stunning them for 2 sec and after stun finishes they remain dazed for 2 sec, gain quickness, fury and swiftness for 5 sec, unblockable

(deadeye had no cc in previous builds and so i made up one for him, it is supposed to be strong yet costy and unblockable because we all know that we get stunned without possibility to block everywhere we go especially in WvW)

 

Fifth atack has no kneeling variat.

 

Utilities: Mercy and Healing skill were in my oppinion fine so i would keep them as they were on the other hand i would like to replace the remaining utilities.

 

Shadow flare replaced by new: Like a Shadow - Throw a smoke bomb at the place where you are and dodge to a side chosen by your movement keys. Distance traveled 400, evade 3/4 sec, blind foes at the spot where you dodged from, stealth yourself for 4 sec, after landing kneel automatically. This is an ammo skill which has 3 casts each with recharge time 3 sec. The kneel can be canceled by movement forward (only forward ''W'' )

(This utility could finally solve the huge problem we as DE had since we were too imobile and yet we will have to kneel and we will be able to use kneel attacks as was meant by devs)

 

Shadow gust replaced by: Ghost in a dark - This trait would be applicable only if you are in stealth. It would be attack common to wariors whirlwind sword, you would move accross the line towards the direction you would aim at. Range 1200, leaving AoE frost fields behind, you radius of a field 80 targets standing in a field get chilled or 5 sec and 3 stacks of torment with dmg 284 if standing and 340 if moving each for 5 seconds.

 

I liked the Binding Shadow utility very much. But it was easily evadable or blockable and palyers knew when it was cast so i would change it to unblockable and shorten the cast time to 1/2 sec.

 

Traits : I wil keep the names only change effects of some of them.

Deadeye's gaze: Increase the amount of malice to 7 from the very start gain 2 ini upon marking target.

Malicious Intent - Gain 1 Malice upon gaining a boon and marking a target

Collateral Damage - Skills which hit more that just one target cause blind for 5 seconds

One in the chamber - When you cast a cantrip gain random boon for 5 seconds.

Renewing gaze was okay i have nothing to change there.

Silent scope changed to Quick fingers - Ranged attacks have increased Critical chance by 10%, after your initiative is empty stealth yourself for 5 seconds

Payback - Break stun and strike enemy with your weapon causing them to get stunned for 1 sec, considered a trick, refresh time 30 sec

Premeditation is okay but i would change it's name to Ripped from buffs (just like the name :) )

Iron sight and Perfectionist were also okay.

Magnificent Seven - After gaining full malice share all the boons from you to nearby allies number of targets 10 (this is mainly for raids because nobody ever wants to see a DE in raid cuz we are selfish and dont do enough dps as word says)

Be quick or be dead - Gain 10 power for each stack of might, gain 100 precision each time you have quickness, gain fury each time you have swiftness

Fire for Effect - Your Skull splitter becomes unblockable if you hit your marked target you copy all their boons and corrupt the boons on them to contradicting conditions.

 

This is what i would have changed on Deadeye i know it is a lot to read but if you managed and got all the way down here to comments please leave one and let me know what you think about this. We are the players we need to be active and help our devs make game better do have suggestions and pls if you find this one good leave like so devs notice that ppl really call for change. Thank you for your time bb o/ :)

 

[DemonSeed.3528]

The new change(s):

Silent Scope: This trait now works outside of combat. Stealth is applied at the end of a dodge roll instead of at the beginning. Added additional effects particles to show when stealth is applied

Not much but hopefully more coming soon.

[Armaelus.6120]

There is a complement which isn't notified here. We can make a dodge with the stealth at the end of the roll AND if we use "Kneeling" immediatly, the CD is reset. So we can make a second dodge and have stealth again ! This is better than it was announced !

[Lucinellia.9247]

> @"saerni.2584" said:

> It’s been noted in a few places that DE really has issues with large HP targets being difficult to get the benefit of certain traits (Payback for example).

>

> One option is increased effect in PvE but that just makes DE even stronger in some situations.

>

> I would suggest an alternative. Make FfE have a cooldown and apply might in an area around the target and DE when the DE strikes their marked target. You could also tie it to maxing out Malice like M7.

>

> Basically FfE would be the boonshare Deadeye focusing on sharing might and fury but giving up the extra malice, initiative regen and personal variety of boons. But the gameplay would be easier to reconcile with PvE targets with a lot of HP where stolen skills don’t reset as much as other game modes (this also could make boonsharing DE more PvP viable as well.

 

Yip, that sort of change would also work for me. Handled correctly it could definitely help Thief out further if the boons were more frequent and not tied to taking cantrips and their cast times. Good idea!

 

Could you please add this suggestion to your original post under Fire for Effect, specifically for PvE? At this stage, we really need a support option for Thief in PvE. Thank you! <3

[DemonSeed.3528]

> @"Armaelus.6120" said:

> There is a complement which isn't notified here. We can make a dodge with the stealth at the end of the roll AND if we use "Kneeling" immediatly, the CD is reset. So we can make a second dodge and have stealth again ! This is better than it was announced !

 

With the above it is a little more smoother if you time your kneel right near the end of the dodge where your feet are about to land (at least with my latency that is where it is at).

[kash.9213]

> @"Armaelus.6120" said:

> There is a complement which isn't notified here. We can make a dodge with the stealth at the end of the roll AND if we use "Kneeling" immediatly, the CD is reset. So we can make a second dodge and have stealth again ! This is better than it was announced !

 

But we still have to dodge for stealth, with a two handed rifle, on a "sniper" class.

[Rengaru.4730]

Still getting revealed without Deaths Judgement firing off, but I now know it's due to a directional key being pressed (e.g. from dodging sideways to gain stealth)

Here is a 100% way to reproduce this bug:

 

1. Kneel

2. Gain Stealth

3. Press and hold any direction

4. Press Deaths Judgement

 

At least it's possible to play around this, but it's still extremely annoying.

[sreel.1857]

ANet I am really sorry but what was your intention with this bugfix you brought us today? I never write anything in the forum, even with the last Deadeye update I read and hoped you guys will fix it adequately. But now I have to make my point clear. I really try to not rage or insult but look things realistically.

 

If your intention with this glorious bugfix was to put a plaster on the problems of the Deadeye-Remake then congratiulations, you nailed it. But if you tried to solve the problem many of the people here were reporting about (the revealing of the autoattack after using stealth) then what are you even telling us with this fix?

Yes it is one step in the right direction. It solves the problem with silent scope, that reveals you after you got stealth from your dodge roll. But does it solve the problem that with any of my stealth utility or elite skills I get instant revealed from the autoattack of my rifle? -nope. I just tried it out and keep getting revealed. What a time to be alive.

 

Lets summarize what the fix brought us:

- we can now at least use death judgement after we get stealth from a dodge roll like it should be from the begin *yay*

- we still can throw away all our stealth utility and elite skills since we get revealed from autoattacks anyway which means huge dps loss + useless skills

- rifle still does no dmg in pve thanks to the rework

- correct me if I'm wrong (I might have overlooked something), but in pvp/wvw my enemies now can see the direction I dodge.

 

--> a small part got fixed, the rest is still like it was before. Would you at least please be kind enough to tell us whether you consider the problems of the deadeye as over and done or if you still think about tackle the still existing bugs that give a huge disadvantage to this class.

 

greets...

[Karnn.4569]

Desc says 4 sec so i'll test more

[Armaelus.6120]

Since the rework, I confirmed a huge decrease of our dps with the rifle in particular DJ which is doing less damage from it was before...! Smoke field should be an instant cast instead of targeting an area... This abilitie, when kneeling, is no longer usable in fight.

[Jack Redline.5379]

I have an idea

lets create a discusion where will be only one thing : Check the thief discusions. And everyone will report it for i dunno nudity or waht. It will be so many reports that someone in anet will have to notice. And they will check it and we will get answers

[Akeno.4962]

> @"saerni.2584" said:

> > @"Miatela.5047" said:

> > > @"saerni.2584" said:

> > > As to FfE there is some misinformation in the last few posts. It is 8 stacks of might per stolen skill and the builds that use it often have multiple stolen skills that can be used. Zergs can often get perma 25 might and now fury using it in quick succession. The fury aspect is especially important for a solo Deadeye because it helps with malice generation and can be maintained through FfE more consistently than with other sources.

> >

> > Which doesn't help in PvE where Thief remains the only profession which cannot support without massive opportunity costs. So perhaps a split between PvP/WvW/PvE is needed? Since those Improvisation / Trickery cantrip heavy builds aren't going to work in PvE without wrecking already low DPS.

> >

> > This is why Fire for Effect needs to grant more Might (ideally 10) with a longer duration (ideally 18 seconds) to see any use in PvE.

>

> It’s been noted in a few places that DE really has issues with large HP targets being difficult to get the benefit of certain traits (Payback for example).

>

> One option is increased effect in PvE but that just makes DE even stronger in some situations.

>

> I would suggest an alternative. Make FfE have a cooldown and apply might in an area around the target and DE when the DE strikes their marked target. You could also tie it to maxing out Malice like M7.

>

> Basically FfE would be the boonshare Deadeye focusing on sharing might and fury but giving up the extra malice, initiative regen and personal variety of boons. But the gameplay would be easier to reconcile with PvE targets with a lot of HP where stolen skills don’t reset as much as other game modes (this also could make boonsharing DE more PvP viable as well.

 

I feel FfE is meant to be taken with one in a chamber. The benefits from taking cantrips right now for a boonshare build are:

-Thiefs don't have any meaningful support options for utilities, apart from raw cc. OiaC + FfE turn generally offensive skills into support skills, without loosing their identity.

-With shadow flare and shadow gust, you have a nice dps increase and some cc that proc one in a chamber.

-Boonshare is "regulated" by both mark cd and cantrips cd. IF they were to make boonshare as strong as a chrono, it wouldn't be a cheesy skill spam like with thief dps rotations.

 

The problem, imo, is not that hitting a marked target with a stolen skill is hard. With improvisation you can use one two times and (this one i'm not so sure about it) all your cantrips will recharge every time you steal as long you don't have any other utility on cooldown (this can be more difficult, because even as a support you want that sweet basilisk venom). The other trait line is up to you, trickery to have a smaller cd on your mark and to share some more boons, acrobatics while using a sword to insta-recharge steal when you evade succesfully (on a 20 cd).

 

 

These are the problems I find:

-Boons are pretty generic and stolen skills are awfully lame. Now, if only deadeye's stolen skills applied unique debuffs that meant a dps increase similar to frost spirit that allies not affected by Frost spirit could take advantage...

 

-You deal way less dps than a bannerslave used to when sharing might without unique boons.

-Without peripheral vision, there's no way to share anything more valuable than might, so premeditation doesn't make much sense as a boonshare trait. The concentration it provides isn't enough to need some more from equipment or runes to try to keep 25 might up. The damage modifier sorta makes up for the lost dps but isn't enough for support builds. However, pure dps d/d build uses it because there's nothing better in the more offensive trait lines.

-Mercy should recharge your mark without deleting the current one. It should also grant a stolen skill like any other cantrip. That way, one mercy equals three stolen skills (with improvisation).

[Kallist.5917]

I've a suggestion that may add a bit of complexity back in to the class, came to me the other morning while I was getting ready for work. Similar to the stealth attacks, make the Cantrips have a second form based on the player being in Stealth. You want the class to be more stealth based, so give them something other than the poor bonuses for stealth attacks. Oh and while your at it, if you could make those worth using again, I would appreciate it. Their pretty crap right now, and the time your spending getting in to stealth kills the dps.

[Armaelus.6120]

Today, after playing a few hours, I noticed that I had even no more the utility of the marking/malice. In fact, marked a target is became useless according to me, because it bring only a buff to DJ, abilitie which is only usable under stealth. Yet, I feel that "sniper" have a "F1" totally broken...!

 

Now, a sniper must have stealth in his build in order to use DJ :

- By using a passive trait as "Silent Scope"

- By using utility skills and/or elite skill

 

If a sniper don t want to use "silent scope", he have no choice but to choose utility skills and/or elite skill that give stealth. Moreover, the sniper who choose only 1 ou 2 skills with stealth, it give him a poor opportunity to use DJ. Is it really that Dev want ?

 

 

[Karnn.4569]

Ok so resetting the cd of dodge stealth with kneel is waay more clunky. In a pinch sure u can get stealth on dodge issue is when you kneel to reset cd in combat and your now unstealthed. What I used to do was kneel dodge if needed unkneel this way when I was rooted at least I wasn't pants down in the open. So before you would kneel, get stealth, dodge if needed thus getting stealth and saving endurance. Now its dodge get stealth get 10 sec CD kneel to cancel cd before leaving stealth so you can do it again if need be using up endurance along the way. This doesn't work on sniper perches at all either because rolling off tall crap is not recommended.

 

So we went from hold 5 for stealth, dodge if needed. To dodge first hold 5 to reset, burn the endurance bar to stealth hope u dont mess up and get that kneel in else you dont clear the 10 sec cd and die next time you try to dodge stealth in the next 8 sec.

This has become more clunky with more micromanagement not less. The endurance thing isn't bad we have ways to get it back.

 

I feel the problem now is the root to reset CD also if you dodge stealth and accidentally reveal yourself due to a really long shot now because of the kneel rotation your rooted pants on head again. At this point I'd just drop the CD before changes after changes we had perma stealth builds having to use a skill and one that roots mid stealth rotation only has purpose to throw a wrench in an otherwise smooth rotation. I feel removing the CD and allowing smoother longer stealth isn't bad now because we have to attack to build malice. Unlike before making perma stealth harder because mark was timed made sense now we have to reveal ourselves to build it up its more like whackamole.

 

You dont have the issue you had with perma stealth trappers because of the new malice system, and perma stealth requires dropping DPS to take the shadow arts traits. PVE its not really useful or good because DPS rules and its only really finds itself roaming in wvw and scouting. At this point its the first time I've felt a Perma stealth thief isn't an issue, its fun and to engage it requires you show your face making it more a means of evasion and mobility. I think that about covers it for me so far. Try testing it without the CD internally. before you could follow the target and only appear to one shot them now you can follow em but not build malice until you leave stealth.

[Tashigi.3159]

Just revert the whole thing to how it was before and call it a day. I don't remember anyone complaining about the old mechanics; everything worked just fine. Certainly, a few things needed toning up and down, but this much change has created a lot more problems in the PVE side of things than anything, specially in the end game side of things.

[Arlowslol.1974]

> @"Karnn.4569" said:

> Ok so resetting the cd of dodge stealth with kneel is waay more clunky. In a pinch sure u can get stealth on dodge issue is when you kneel to reset cd in combat and your now unstealthed. What I used to do was kneel dodge if needed unkneel this way when I was rooted at least I wasn't pants down in the open. So before you would kneel, get stealth, dodge if needed thus getting stealth and saving endurance. Now its dodge get stealth get 10 sec CD kneel to cancel cd before leaving stealth so you can do it again if need be using up endurance along the way. This doesn't work on sniper perches at all either because rolling off tall crap is not recommended.

>

> So we went from hold 5 for stealth, dodge if needed. To dodge first hold 5 to reset, burn the endurance bar to stealth hope u dont mess up and get that kneel in else you dont clear the 10 sec cd and die next time you try to dodge stealth in the next 8 sec.

> This has become more clunky with more micromanagement not less. The endurance thing isn't bad we have ways to get it back.

>

> I feel the problem now is the root to reset CD also if you dodge stealth and accidentally reveal yourself due to a really long shot now because of the kneel rotation your rooted pants on head again. At this point I'd just drop the CD before changes after changes we had perma stealth builds having to use a skill and one that roots mid stealth rotation only has purpose to throw a wrench in an otherwise smooth rotation. I feel removing the CD and allowing smoother longer stealth isn't bad now because we have to attack to build malice. Unlike before making perma stealth harder because mark was timed made sense now we have to reveal ourselves to build it up its more like whackamole.

>

> You dont have the issue you had with perma stealth trappers because of the new malice system, and perma stealth requires dropping DPS to take the shadow arts traits. PVE its not really useful or good because DPS rules and its only really finds itself roaming in wvw and scouting. At this point its the first time I've felt a Perma stealth thief isn't an issue, its fun and to engage it requires you show your face making it more a means of evasion and mobility. I think that about covers it for me so far. Try testing it without the CD internally. before you could follow the target and only appear to one shot them now you can follow em but not build malice until you leave stealth.

 

CD is fine , and no more perma stealth, learn to play the game and not troll at all.

[Arlowslol.1974]

> @"Tashigi.3159" said:

> Just revert the whole thing to how it was before and call it a day. I don't remember anyone complaining about the old mechanics; everything worked just fine. Certainly, a few things needed toning up and down, but this much change has created a lot more problems in the PVE side of things than anything, specially in the end game side of things.

 

Old mechanics is not an healthy mechanics . And DONT CALL THAT PVE PROBLEMS, it is number's problems .

[Tashigi.3159]

> @"Arlowslol.1974" said:

> Old mechanics is not an healthy mechanics . And DONT CALL THAT PVE PROBLEMS, it is number's problems .

Numbers problems is a PVE problem.

 

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Rengaru.4730" said:

> Still getting revealed without Deaths Judgement firing off, but I now know it's due to a directional key being pressed (e.g. from dodging sideways to gain stealth)

> Here is a 100% way to reproduce this bug:

>

> 1. Kneel

> 2. Gain Stealth

> 3. Press and hold any direction

> 4. Press Deaths Judgement

>

> At least it's possible to play around this, but it's still extremely annoying.

 

i could reproduce it, but if you start holding your key for DJ during the roll, you wont have the issue.

 

> @"Arlowslol.1974" said:

> > @"Karnn.4569" said:

> > Ok so resetting the cd of dodge stealth with kneel is waay more clunky. In a pinch sure u can get stealth on dodge issue is when you kneel to reset cd in combat and your now unstealthed. What I used to do was kneel dodge if needed unkneel this way when I was rooted at least I wasn't pants down in the open. So before you would kneel, get stealth, dodge if needed thus getting stealth and saving endurance. Now its dodge get stealth get 10 sec CD kneel to cancel cd before leaving stealth so you can do it again if need be using up endurance along the way. This doesn't work on sniper perches at all either because rolling off tall crap is not recommended.

> >

> > So we went from hold 5 for stealth, dodge if needed. To dodge first hold 5 to reset, burn the endurance bar to stealth hope u dont mess up and get that kneel in else you dont clear the 10 sec cd and die next time you try to dodge stealth in the next 8 sec.

> > This has become more clunky with more micromanagement not less. The endurance thing isn't bad we have ways to get it back.

> >

> > I feel the problem now is the root to reset CD also if you dodge stealth and accidentally reveal yourself due to a really long shot now because of the kneel rotation your rooted pants on head again. At this point I'd just drop the CD before changes after changes we had perma stealth builds having to use a skill and one that roots mid stealth rotation only has purpose to throw a wrench in an otherwise smooth rotation. I feel removing the CD and allowing smoother longer stealth isn't bad now because we have to attack to build malice. Unlike before making perma stealth harder because mark was timed made sense now we have to reveal ourselves to build it up its more like whackamole.

> >

> > You dont have the issue you had with perma stealth trappers because of the new malice system, and perma stealth requires dropping DPS to take the shadow arts traits. PVE its not really useful or good because DPS rules and its only really finds itself roaming in wvw and scouting. At this point its the first time I've felt a Perma stealth thief isn't an issue, its fun and to engage it requires you show your face making it more a means of evasion and mobility. I think that about covers it for me so far. Try testing it without the CD internally. before you could follow the target and only appear to one shot them now you can follow em but not build malice until you leave stealth.

>

> CD is fine , and no more perma stealth, learn to play the game and not troll at all.

 

we still have permastealth in several different ways.

before the silent scope update i played a build that could in therory permastealth but i didnt permastealth against reasonable numbers. i popped in and out of stealth, to do that frequently i had alot of endurance gain, enough to permastealth if i wanted. but people complained about it even more then permastealth + oneshot build..so now i play oneshot again as it has a higher chance to actually stomp one not just down in a highly outnumbered fight and people complain less. also with the other build as it was mainly dealing damage with rifle i had issues with power mirages running evasive mirror, but with my dagger back in hand they are among the easiest to kill. in WvW solo roaming it is simply stronger to play stealth heavy thief builds and best for this is now deadeye, its not trolling if you play it its just the most efficient way, will take a couple more years i guess till people understand it learning to play the game includes chosing the optimal build for the task ahead.

 

the CD is not really existent as you can reset it easily. the resetting while it isnt putting you in a bad spot it still feels clunky and it would feel alot more fluid without, for fighting in standing version. we also already have a cooldown in form of endurance gains, wich is base 10s same as silent scope.

[Karnn.4569]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Rengaru.4730" said:

> > Still getting revealed without Deaths Judgement firing off, but I now know it's due to a directional key being pressed (e.g. from dodging sideways to gain stealth)

> > Here is a 100% way to reproduce this bug:

> >

> > 1. Kneel

> > 2. Gain Stealth

> > 3. Press and hold any direction

> > 4. Press Deaths Judgement

> >

> > At least it's possible to play around this, but it's still extremely annoying.

>

> i could reproduce it, but if you start holding your key for DJ during the roll, you wont have the issue.

>

> > @"Arlowslol.1974" said:

> > > @"Karnn.4569" said:

> > > Ok so resetting the cd of dodge stealth with kneel is waay more clunky. In a pinch sure u can get stealth on dodge issue is when you kneel to reset cd in combat and your now unstealthed. What I used to do was kneel dodge if needed unkneel this way when I was rooted at least I wasn't pants down in the open. So before you would kneel, get stealth, dodge if needed thus getting stealth and saving endurance. Now its dodge get stealth get 10 sec CD kneel to cancel cd before leaving stealth so you can do it again if need be using up endurance along the way. This doesn't work on sniper perches at all either because rolling off tall crap is not recommended.

> > >

> > > So we went from hold 5 for stealth, dodge if needed. To dodge first hold 5 to reset, burn the endurance bar to stealth hope u dont mess up and get that kneel in else you dont clear the 10 sec cd and die next time you try to dodge stealth in the next 8 sec.

> > > This has become more clunky with more micromanagement not less. The endurance thing isn't bad we have ways to get it back.

> > >

> > > I feel the problem now is the root to reset CD also if you dodge stealth and accidentally reveal yourself due to a really long shot now because of the kneel rotation your rooted pants on head again. At this point I'd just drop the CD before changes after changes we had perma stealth builds having to use a skill and one that roots mid stealth rotation only has purpose to throw a wrench in an otherwise smooth rotation. I feel removing the CD and allowing smoother longer stealth isn't bad now because we have to attack to build malice. Unlike before making perma stealth harder because mark was timed made sense now we have to reveal ourselves to build it up its more like whackamole.

> > >

> > > You dont have the issue you had with perma stealth trappers because of the new malice system, and perma stealth requires dropping DPS to take the shadow arts traits. PVE its not really useful or good because DPS rules and its only really finds itself roaming in wvw and scouting. At this point its the first time I've felt a Perma stealth thief isn't an issue, its fun and to engage it requires you show your face making it more a means of evasion and mobility. I think that about covers it for me so far. Try testing it without the CD internally. before you could follow the target and only appear to one shot them now you can follow em but not build malice until you leave stealth.

> >

> > CD is fine , and no more perma stealth, learn to play the game and not troll at all.

>

> we still have permastealth in several different ways.

> before the silent scope update i played a build that could in therory permastealth but i didnt permastealth against reasonable numbers. i popped in and out of stealth, to do that frequently i had alot of endurance gain, enough to permastealth if i wanted. but people complained about it even more then permastealth + oneshot build..so now i play oneshot again as it has a higher chance to actually stomp one not just down in a highly outnumbered fight and people complain less. also with the other build as it was mainly dealing damage with rifle i had issues with power mirages running evasive mirror, but with my dagger back in hand they are among the easiest to kill. in WvW solo roaming it is simply stronger to play stealth heavy thief builds and best for this is now deadeye, its not trolling if you play it its just the most efficient way, will take a couple more years i guess till people understand it learning to play the game includes chosing the optimal build for the task ahead.

>

> the CD is not really existent as you can reset it easily. the resetting while it isnt putting you in a bad spot it still feels clunky and it would feel alot more fluid without, for fighting in standing version. we also already have a cooldown in form of endurance gains, wich is base 10s same as silent scope.

 

Thank you MUDse bout sums it up.

[Yureii.4236]

I would like Malice stacking on auto attacks and silent scope to be applied on pistol builds. Those are some major QoL changes that I believe would be the most beneficial to DE in terms of dps. Also if malice gave the 3% damage per stack again it would add more of a choice to the DE: use the malice for an empowered stealth attack or maintain the malice stacks for out of stealth dps.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

> @"Yureii.4236" said:

> I would like Malice stacking on auto attacks and silent scope to be applied on pistol builds. Those are some major QoL changes that I believe would be the most beneficial to DE in terms of dps. Also if malice gave the 3% damage per stack again it would add more of a choice to the DE: use the malice for an empowered stealth attack or maintain the malice stacks for out of stealth dps.

 

yup :3

[Gray.9041]

> @"Arlowslol.1974" said:

> Old mechanics is not an healthy mechanics . And DONT CALL THAT PVE PROBLEMS, it is number's problems .

 

The problem isn't just the numbers. The issue is forcing Deadeye into stealth and malice changes without adequate consideration on the class. As well as destroying already low dps, rifle thief now feels awful to play (since stealth noticeably changed playstyle) and the cantrips, which where underwhelming anyway, are even less useful.

 

The problems for PvE Deadeye before were low dps, no incentive to use skills other than auto and DJ, and a lack of meaningful support.

 

The only one of those they "fixed" was the 111114 rotation, but considering the issues they've added, it hardly seems worth it.