Consolidated Suggestions for DE Changes

[Lucinellia.9247]

It hasn't really been mentioned in this thread so I think it is worthwhile bringing up again as you do a rework of the Deadeye rework but currently, in raids and fractals, every other profession in the game has a viable support build (even Scrapper is worthwhile as a healer in raids now) but Thief doesn't. We have a strange situation where Deadeye would appear to be the support option due to Fire for Effect but the ability of Deadeye to adequately share Might and Fury is really poor. This leads to Daredevil being brought as an incredibly rare and niche support choice on the few raid encounters that grant Explode Plasma.

 

The reason that Deadeye is not taken in a support slot is because the opportunity cost to bring Might and Fury is _far too high_ for a class that will be a DPS support rather than a healing support. As things stand, Druid sacrifices a bit of healing through one talent in order to be able to bring Might - this Might is easily upkept through a standard rotation and the lost healing output is easily covered by the secondary healer which can now be another Druid, Tempest, Scourge, Scrapper, Renegade or Firebrand.

 

Comparatively, a Deadeye needs to take One in the Chamber, Perfectionist and Fire for Effect _in addition to dropping Critical Strikes for Trickery and switching Executioner to Improvisation_. This is a massive opportunity cost - the cantrips need to be used rotationally so the CC effects of Binding Shadow and Shadow Gust will not always be applicable and a Deadeye drops about 12k DPS to be able to do this. Unlike the lost healing of a Grace of the Land Druid, this DPS isn't going to be magically brought by another member of the raid squad.

 

Deadeye should be a worthwhile option for Might and Fury share because, unlike every other profession in the game, Thief cannot bring sufficient support to all raid and fractal encounters. For Deadeye to achieve this, the opportunity cost of Might share should not be so great. While I'd much prefer that Thief need only change one trait to proficiently Might share, this would nullify other traits.

 

To this end, I strongly feel that Deadeye should be able to put out 25 Might and Fury on 10 people by _only_ taking One in the Chamber, Perfectionist and Fire for Effect. Deadeye should _not_ need to drop Critical Strikes or Executioner and full Might and Fury should be achievable with only at most two cantrips to allow for some amount of flexibility.

 

**I strongly urge you to consider making Fire for Effect grant 10 Might for 20 seconds instead of 8 Might for 12 seconds.**

 

This could be split to PvE only if required. This way, a Deadeye could maintain full Might on a raid by refreshing Deadeye's Mark and correctly staggering the use of cantrips such as Shadow Flare and Binding Shadow. With this change the opportunity cost of Might share Deadeye would be lowered yet would still not be a "meta" pick since Druids bring spirits _and_ might. Sadly though, I feel we're passed the point of trying to make Thief "meta" for DPS, never mind support, so at the bare minimum Might share Deadeye should be a valid off-meta choice for groups that are willing to run two non-Druid healers and a slightly lower DPS Deadeye. This would also further help group diversity, if only on paper, something that Guild Wars 2 is really lacking in PvE.

 

 

[Astyrah.4015]

i know there's little to no chance they'll roll back deadeye as before so i have only a few requests for fixes (these are very basic fixes and i know some/all of these points are very similar to what others have already said):

 

**1.** another way to regain the lost 11% damage from the old M7 DE because premeditation fights with silent scope trait for a slot in rifle builds in PvE.

 

**2.** a more easily accessible stealth for PvE rifle DE. maybe make kneeling rifle4 a stealth bullet (like ranger longbow3)? **or** change rifle4 sniper's cover into a stealth defensive INI skill? that way we can drop silent scope and take pre-medidation instead to address my first point (**1.**) and it'll make a good alternative to reworking the clunky stealth part of silent scope **also** this fix will allow people who prefer the more active and moving stealth dodges as a way to DJ to take silent scope and the people who prefer a more stationary play-style make do with rifle4 stealthing and take pre-medi instead that way we can please both playstyles

 

**3.** im okay with keeping the reworked malice system but please allow a maximum of 1 malice gain if you use an INI skill on a target other than your marked target (that way body blocking adds in PvE won't prevent you from building malice on your main target)

 

***edit***

oh and i know it may be unlikely but a DPS increase across the board for PvE would be lovely but yeah atleast allow us PvE DE's to match the old DE dps benchmark pre-rework

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Astyrah.4015" said:

> i know there's little to no chance they'll roll back deadeye as before so i have only a few requests for fixes (these are very basic fixes and i know some/all of these points are very similar to what others have already said):

>

> **1.** another way to regain the lost 11% damage from the old M7 DE because premeditation fights with silent scope trait for a slot in rifle builds in PvE.

>

> **2.** a more easily accessible stealth for PvE rifle DE. maybe make kneeling rifle4 a stealth bullet (like ranger longbow3)? **or** change rifle4 sniper's cover into a stealth defensive INI skill? that way we can drop silent scope and take pre-medidation instead to address my first point (**1.**) and it'll make a good alternative to reworking the clunky stealth part of silent scope **also** this fix will allow people who prefer the more active and moving stealth dodges as a way to DJ to take silent scope and the people who prefer a more stationary play-style make do with rifle4 stealthing and take pre-medi instead that way we can please both playstyles

 

would it work for you to swap one in the chamber with premeditation ? i think that is a more likely change as it doesnt require new skills/traits.

i dont think we will gain 2 ways to enter stealth for rifle exclusive and i would like to keep the on dodge stealth as i personally think it gives me the option to play a lot more agressive in pvp fights to then go rather safe into stealth for repositioning when counter pressured. i know your post is mostly about pve but a change of the stealth to rifle kneel 4 is something that wont just happen for 1 mode, so you got to consider all modes for this.

[Astyrah.4015]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> would it work for you to swap one in the chamber with premeditation ? i think that is a more likely change as it doesnt require new skills/traits.

 

i don't mind however they do it as long as we got back (and maybe, hopefully exceed the pre-rework) what we lost for PvE DPS-wise.

 

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> i dont think we will gain 2 ways to enter stealth for rifle exclusive and i would like to keep the on dodge stealth as i personally think it gives me the option to play a lot more agressive in pvp fights to then go rather safe into stealth for repositioning when counter pressured. i know your post is mostly about pve but a change of the stealth to rifle kneel 4 is something that wont just happen for 1 mode, so you got to consider all modes for this.

 

the technology to have seperate skill effects and trait effects for PvE and PvP is already there, they can just make "sniper's cover" behave differently so PvP people, if they're happy as it is now, will stay happy - and PvE people can have more options my comment regarding my point 2. was to allow both playstyles of the old and reworked DE to co-exist to *try* to please everyone

 

 

[dragonkain.3984]

> @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

> Heya, thanks for the thoughtful and well-formatted feedback. I wasn't sure if I should post again after my last "thanks for the feedback" post was misinterpreted. But I wanted to give it one more shot since I thought some of these ideas were pretty cool.

>

> So first things first...

> We are planning to move the stealth application on the Silent Scope trait from the start of the dodge roll to the end. There are pros and cons to each version so I want to explain the reasoning. We originally put the stealth at the beginning of the dodge to make it more responsive and to give it a sneaky feel by hiding the direction of your roll. However given problems some players are having with being revealed by bullets in flight, we've decided to move it to the end. This should make the moment-to-moment gameplay with rifle feel smoother and more intuitive. We are also removing the in-combat restriction from this trait.

>

> Moving forward from here…

> You'll see this change in an update coming in a few weeks. (I think we'd all like that to happen sooner but our team doesn't control the update cycle and we need to wait for other changes in the update be implemented, tested, etc.) While this doesn't address all of the feedback we've seen so far it was the one we were able to ship in the shortest amount of time. We will continue to follow up as necessary so please continue to leave your feedback on the forums.

 

**Or you can finally add a long overdue "unrevealable stealth" for 0.5 sec when you get first application of ANY stealth to fix such problem for literally all classes. Stealth blast finishers dont work for the same reason u know, so I don't think they deserve to be forgotten in their bugged, non-working state forever..**

[Tinnel.4369]

> @"dragonkain.3984" said:

> > @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

> > Heya, thanks for the thoughtful and well-formatted feedback. I wasn't sure if I should post again after my last "thanks for the feedback" post was misinterpreted. But I wanted to give it one more shot since I thought some of these ideas were pretty cool.

> >

> > So first things first...

> > We are planning to move the stealth application on the Silent Scope trait from the start of the dodge roll to the end. There are pros and cons to each version so I want to explain the reasoning. We originally put the stealth at the beginning of the dodge to make it more responsive and to give it a sneaky feel by hiding the direction of your roll. However given problems some players are having with being revealed by bullets in flight, we've decided to move it to the end. This should make the moment-to-moment gameplay with rifle feel smoother and more intuitive. We are also removing the in-combat restriction from this trait.

> >

> > Moving forward from here…

> > You'll see this change in an update coming in a few weeks. (I think we'd all like that to happen sooner but our team doesn't control the update cycle and we need to wait for other changes in the update be implemented, tested, etc.) While this doesn't address all of the feedback we've seen so far it was the one we were able to ship in the shortest amount of time. We will continue to follow up as necessary so please continue to leave your feedback on the forums.

>

> **Or you can finally add a long overdue "unrevealable stealth" for 0.5 sec when you get first application of ANY stealth to fix such problem for literally all classes. Stealth blast finishers dont work for the same reason u know, so I don't think they deserve to be forgotten in their bugged, non-working state forever..**

>

> **Also, why stealth on kneel is combat only now? Before it was out of combat too.**

 

Stealth on dodge? He says in the very post you quote that'll be removed.

[Armaelus.6120]

I like the sniper as he was before changes. Make every changes you want, but give me back the stealth on kneel (let make stealth on dodge on a passive trait for other weapon if you want), and find a way to make me recorvered the 5-11% extra damage on weapon's abilities with the malice, like it was before changes too !

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Armaelus.6120" said:

> I like the sniper as he was before changes. Make every changes you want, but give me back the stealth on kneel (**let make stealth on dodge on a passive trait for other weapon if you want**), and find a way to make me recorvered the 5-11% extra damage on weapon's abilities with the malice, like it was before changes too !

 

no dont take away my stealth on rifle dodge!

 

[Maugetarr.6823]

> @"Will.9785" said:

> My thread was merged/closed, which means now no one will see it and comment, so I'm mentioning this again here.

>

> I would like to see them address the issue of requiring stealth to make use of malice.

>

> I would like you to seriously consider adding an F3 where we can consume malice stacks for an attack boost (either for the next weapon skill or some period of time - though I feel the former is closer to the current design implementation).

>

> F3 - Consume Malice - An instant-cast ability that boosts the next weapon skill's power and condition damage by 7% per stack (10% if the attack is done while stealthed)

>

> Why this change? Several weapon sets do not have easy access to stealth and/or the new malicious skills are underwhelming (sword) or clash altogether (e.g. pistol/pistol malicious attack is condi-based).

>

> With this change the malicious skills would not be needed, as players would be able to control when the malice is used and on which skills. It would also mean that malice has some use on non-stealth builds (just like it did before the rework) while providing a little added benefit while stealthed.

 

An F3 attack would actually be an awesome idea. Maybe something like F3 stealths you for 3 seconds and a 10 second CD, and rolls over to the malicious version of the stealth attack they just added for 3 seconds (having the rollover stay up whether you're in stealth or not). Activating the malicious version would consume the malice (whether it hits successfully or not) and a successful hit could reduce the recharge of F3 to 8 seconds. That way they could gate the hard hitting skills like malicious Backstab and Death's Judgement behind it and offer better access to stealth for the weapon sets that don't have great access to it. It would also balance out the F2 skills which seem generally weaker. Maybe they could remove the damage portion of the F2 skills and make them pure utility which buffs yourself or debuffs the marked target to help you land or buff the F3 attack.

[Almondjoy.8964]

> @"Will.9785" said:

> My thread was merged/closed, which means now no one will see it and comment, so I'm mentioning this again here.

>

> I would like to see them address the issue of requiring stealth to make use of malice.

>

> I would like you to seriously consider adding an F3 where we can consume malice stacks for an attack boost (either for the next weapon skill or some period of time - though I feel the former is closer to the current design implementation).

>

> F3 - Consume Malice - An instant-cast ability that boosts the next weapon skill's power and condition damage by 7% per stack (10% if the attack is done while stealthed)

>

> Why this change? Several weapon sets do not have easy access to stealth and/or the new malicious skills are underwhelming (sword) or clash altogether (e.g. pistol/pistol malicious attack is condi-based).

>

> With this change the malicious skills would not be needed, as players would be able to control when the malice is used and on which skills. It would also mean that malice has some use on non-stealth builds (just like it did before the rework) while providing a little added benefit while stealthed.

 

Unfortunately im with the Devs on this one to use stealth attacks. I like your idea but it is firmly against the design philosophy to make DE a stealth based spec.

 

Stealth attacks, as they the devs stated, are intuitive to the whole profession itself which is why Theifs have the most access to it via traits and utility skills.

 

Adding an f3 to a class that previously had none breaks the rules of the game the profession skills are built off. Each class has the same amount of profession skills available, even Holosmith although the new skills replace the weapon bar. Its the same rule applied to steal in general which is why DE's have stolen skills at all. Its to keep consistency with the whole profession and rules of the game.

 

In a perfect world every spec could hit 30k Dps with every weapon set running various traits but with the limit of choices to 3 trait lines and 3 trait selections per trait line, which is another design rule, for balance sake is probably for the best. So when they design these specs for us they focus on certain aspects of the class and the class weapon; and sometimes the other weapons get put out to pasture for strength or considered niche for that spec. This occurrence is not the devs fault as the task of making very specific designs (I.E sniper=Deadeye) of classes is impossible whilst making everything "viable" on it.

 

Now if this was a "Gunslinger" class and our weapon was pistols and had us use stealth without reliable access it would be a different argument entirely.

 

There is merit in suggesting in adding a stealth skill to all the weapon sets on the thief profession. If you ask me, I find Pistol main hand 2 underwelming. Perhaps starting there would be a good idea, although that should be in a different thread as this is a DE specific thread.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Almondjoy.8964" said:

> Adding an f3 to a class that previously had none breaks the rules of the game the profession skills are built off. Each class has the same amount of profession skills available, even Holosmith although the new skills replace the weapon bar. Its the same rule applied to steal in general which is why DE's have stolen skills at all. Its to keep consistency with the whole profession and rules of the game.

 

mesmer gains an additional profession skill only while using chronomancer, so its not a rule without exceptions.

 

> @"saerni.2584" said:

> ***Bugs***

 

can you add here silent scope 20% crit chance increase doesnt work on standing DJ ? tooltip clearly says 'kneeling rifle skills and death's judgment gain an increased critical hit chance'

i run around with over 60% crit chance and should with fury hit 100% crit DJ but have several times observed noncrits, in one of the threads after rework probably one of the merged someone else did confirm this, maybe need a little more confirmation.

 

edit :

i did run a little test till i got bored and felt sorry the the poor choya was able to record 4 non crits that should have been crits, hope that is enough confirmation. enjoy hunting choya episode 1 :

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qastFODeXJ4

[Almondjoy.8964]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Almondjoy.8964" said:

> > Adding an f3 to a class that previously had none breaks the rules of the game the profession skills are built off. Each class has the same amount of profession skills available, even Holosmith although the new skills replace the weapon bar. Its the same rule applied to steal in general which is why DE's have stolen skills at all. Its to keep consistency with the whole profession and rules of the game.

>

> mesmer gains an additional profession skill only while using chronomancer, so its not a rule without exceptions.

 

Making exceptions to rules is how a game begins to feel unfair or broken. On top of that devs added a huge CD to it. I don't think adding another exception is good overall because it sets a bad precedent.

[Maugetarr.6823]

 

> Adding an f3 to a class that previously had none breaks the rules of the game the profession skills are built off. Each class has the same amount of profession skills available, even Holosmith although the new skills replace the weapon bar. Its the same rule applied to steal in general which is why DE's have stolen skills at all. Its to keep consistency with the whole profession and rules of the game.

 

Berserker, spell breaker, and chonomancer all got additional F-skills over their core class.

 

 

 

[Will.9785]

> @"Almondjoy.8964" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"Almondjoy.8964" said:

> > > Adding an f3 to a class that previously had none breaks the rules of the game the profession skills are built off. Each class has the same amount of profession skills available, even Holosmith although the new skills replace the weapon bar. Its the same rule applied to steal in general which is why DE's have stolen skills at all. Its to keep consistency with the whole profession and rules of the game.

> >

> > mesmer gains an additional profession skill only while using chronomancer, so its not a rule without exceptions.

>

> Making exceptions to rules is how a game begins to feel unfair or broken. On top of that devs added a huge CD to it. I don't think adding another exception is good overall because it sets a bad precedent.

 

Chrono has F5, Berserker has F2, Renegade has F3 and F4, Soul Beast has F5, Scourge gets F2-F5. There has never been a rule like what you suggested. Elite specs get new F-abilities quite often.

[Almondjoy.8964]

> @"Will.9785" said:

> > @"Almondjoy.8964" said:

> > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > @"Almondjoy.8964" said:

> > > > Adding an f3 to a class that previously had none breaks the rules of the game the profession skills are built off. Each class has the same amount of profession skills available, even Holosmith although the new skills replace the weapon bar. Its the same rule applied to steal in general which is why DE's have stolen skills at all. Its to keep consistency with the whole profession and rules of the game.

> > >

> > > mesmer gains an additional profession skill only while using chronomancer, so its not a rule without exceptions.

> >

> > Making exceptions to rules is how a game begins to feel unfair or broken. On top of that devs added a huge CD to it. I don't think adding another exception is good overall because it sets a bad precedent.

>

> Chrono has F5, Berserker has F2, Renegade has F3 and F4, Soul Beast has F5, Scourge gets F2-F5. There has never been a rule like what you suggested. Elite specs get new F-abilities quite often.

 

Okay I miss spoke and ill eat crow for it. It does not change the idea of going back on emphasizing stealth by giving an option to circumvent using stealth even there is a bonus for it. It should be a "stealth focused" spec or not. We shouldn't have it both ways

[Vulcaruss.9567]

> @"Almondjoy.8964" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"Almondjoy.8964" said:

> > > Adding an f3 to a class that previously had none breaks the rules of the game the profession skills are built off. Each class has the same amount of profession skills available, even Holosmith although the new skills replace the weapon bar. Its the same rule applied to steal in general which is why DE's have stolen skills at all. Its to keep consistency with the whole profession and rules of the game.

> >

> > mesmer gains an additional profession skill only while using chronomancer, so its not a rule without exceptions.

>

> Making exceptions to rules is how a game begins to feel unfair or broken. On top of that devs added a huge CD to it. I don't think adding another exception is good overall because it sets a bad precedent.

 

Where have you been, under a rock? There are a ton of Elite Specs that get new F skills Berserker and Spellbreaker both get F2 up from regular warrior, Chronomacer gave mesmer a F5, Scourge gave Necro an F2 F3 and F4. And fun fact back in the old days before Heart of Thorns was ever a thing, Engineer, CORE Engineer only had F1 F2 F3 and F4 tool belt utility slots it didnt have an F5 Elite toolbelt skill, it was added later they reworked it when Scrapper was becoming a thing and it had an F5 skill too.

 

So don't you EVER say its against the rules of the game, or breaks the norm.

[Vulcaruss.9567]

> @"Almondjoy.8964" said:

> > @"Will.9785" said:

> > > @"Almondjoy.8964" said:

> > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > @"Almondjoy.8964" said:

> > > > > Adding an f3 to a class that previously had none breaks the rules of the game the profession skills are built off. Each class has the same amount of profession skills available, even Holosmith although the new skills replace the weapon bar. Its the same rule applied to steal in general which is why DE's have stolen skills at all. Its to keep consistency with the whole profession and rules of the game.

> > > >

> > > > mesmer gains an additional profession skill only while using chronomancer, so its not a rule without exceptions.

> > >

> > > Making exceptions to rules is how a game begins to feel unfair or broken. On top of that devs added a huge CD to it. I don't think adding another exception is good overall because it sets a bad precedent.

> >

> > Chrono has F5, Berserker has F2, Renegade has F3 and F4, Soul Beast has F5, Scourge gets F2-F5. There has never been a rule like what you suggested. Elite specs get new F-abilities quite often.

>

> Okay I miss spoke and ill eat crow for it. It does not change the idea of going back on emphasizing stealth by giving an option to circumvent using stealth even there is a bonus for it. It should be a "stealth focused" spec or not. We shouldn't have it both ways

 

Stealth is the main mechanic of Core Thief, imo Deadeye needs its own unique mechanic besides stealth to compliment malice, the stealth only setup limits the possibilities and capabilities of the Deadeye in general. It makes the Deadeye a chore to play in PvE and its not fun in the slightest.

[Vulcaruss.9567]

Alright so I have a hypothetical scenario for you people who continue to say this whole Stealth focused Deadeye is the best thing since sliced bread. Since you all think it's great lets apply the old saying "Whats good for the Goose is good for the Gander" and apply the same changes to Daredevil eh?

 

(Hypothetical Example Changes)

So, lets take Staff on Daredevil, Rip #5 Vault off of the staff replace it with a silly staff spin move that reflects projectiles, give Daredevil a new Energy source called "Acrobatic Momentum" Where you gain energy for it from using Acrobatic themed attacks that use Initiative, and also stacks when you preform a Dodge. Replace one of the Grand Master Trait so where you Acrobatically leap into Stealth, name it "Leap into the Shadows". The higher the Acrobatic Momentum energy you have the stronger your Stealth skills are, every skill on every weapon's Stealth skill is replaced with an Acrobatic themed skill based on the weapon. And Vault is now the Auto Attack Stealth Skill.

 

Now tell me how would you feel about that? Daredevil already jumps through hoops to deal damage, why not make it jump through even more to do efficient damage? Doesn't that seem fun? Interesting? Intuitive? Unique? Or does it make the class seem over complicated, boring, a chore to play, not fun in general? I'll let the people decide...

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Vulcaruss.9567" said:

> Alright so I have a hypothetical scenario for you people who continue to say this whole Stealth focused Deadeye is the best thing since sliced bread. Since you all think it's great lets apply the old saying "Whats good for the Goose is good for the Gander" and apply the same changes to Daredevil eh?

>

> (Hypothetical Example Changes)

> So, lets take Staff on Daredevil, Rip #5 Vault off of the staff replace it with a silly staff spin move that reflects projectiles, give Daredevil a new Energy source called "Acrobatic Momentum" Where you gain energy for it from using Acrobatic themed attacks that use Initiative, and also stacks when you preform a Dodge. Replace one of the Grand Master Trait so where you Acrobatically leap into Stealth, name it "Leap into the Shadows". The higher the Acrobatic Momentum energy you have the stronger your Stealth skills are, every skill on every weapon's Stealth skill is replaced with an Acrobatic themed skill based on the weapon. And Vault is now the Auto Attack Stealth Skill.

>

> Now tell me how would you feel about that? Daredevil already jumps through hoops to deal damage, why not make it jump through even more to do efficient damage? Doesn't that seem fun? Interesting? Intuitive? Unique? Or does it make the class seem over complicated, boring, a chore to play, not fun in general? I'll let the people decide...

 

daredevil improves thief's acrobatic potential, while DE the stealth potential.

the diffference is daredevil IMO is a rather defensive/utility traitline in granting an aditional evade at the beginning of the fight, endurance on steal , heal on evade. etc. therefor people often option for either acrobatics or daredevil, rarely for both. ontop acrobatics had to be nerfed alot. improving on the acrobatics part, daredevil should have gotten a little bit more like mirage now, attacking during evades . that would have gone alot better with acrobatics.

deadeye on the other hand is a mostly offensive traitline so it makes sense to run it with SA, unless ofc you are in PvE where you do not need any defense.

daredevil was poorly designed for an elite spec, deadeye is alot better in that aspect IMO.

[Cameryn.5310]

> @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> Thanks, and you're right. Robert is aware of the original thread and the feedback it contained. Players who posted there shared a lot of good idea, and they won't go unseen. They can, if they wish, repost them here, or they can count on Robert and the team to know there are two active and valid threads that they'd want to review.

 

Robert told me, in a reply right after his initial Deadeye changes post, that P/P deadeyes would be "better".

 

That is not true, Gaile. P/P deadeye has absolutely no use whatsoever for Malice anymore. The only way we can use Malice is by taking one or both cantrips that provide stealth, and in doing so it's for a torment debuff that is almost completely useless to a power build... not to mention, far less damage than just Unloading again. So Malice, the primary resource of a deadeye build that provided a ranged steal and boon production, is something to now being ignored.

 

How is that possibly fun?

 

You've gone and taken an elite spec that actually had terrific synchronicity with a variety of weapons, and removed that synchronicity with at least one weapon combo. You could have added pistols to the same talent that allows rifles to stealth when rolling, but you didn't.

 

What am I missing here? I have a sneaking suspicion I'm not missing anything.

[Vulcaruss.9567]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Vulcaruss.9567" said:

> > Alright so I have a hypothetical scenario for you people who continue to say this whole Stealth focused Deadeye is the best thing since sliced bread. Since you all think it's great lets apply the old saying "Whats good for the Goose is good for the Gander" and apply the same changes to Daredevil eh?

> >

> > (Hypothetical Example Changes)

> > So, lets take Staff on Daredevil, Rip #5 Vault off of the staff replace it with a silly staff spin move that reflects projectiles, give Daredevil a new Energy source called "Acrobatic Momentum" Where you gain energy for it from using Acrobatic themed attacks that use Initiative, and also stacks when you preform a Dodge. Replace one of the Grand Master Trait so where you Acrobatically leap into Stealth, name it "Leap into the Shadows". The higher the Acrobatic Momentum energy you have the stronger your Stealth skills are, every skill on every weapon's Stealth skill is replaced with an Acrobatic themed skill based on the weapon. And Vault is now the Auto Attack Stealth Skill.

> >

> > Now tell me how would you feel about that? Daredevil already jumps through hoops to deal damage, why not make it jump through even more to do efficient damage? Doesn't that seem fun? Interesting? Intuitive? Unique? Or does it make the class seem over complicated, boring, a chore to play, not fun in general? I'll let the people decide...

>

> daredevil improves thief's acrobatic potential, while DE the stealth potential.

> the diffference is daredevil IMO is a rather defensive/utility traitline in granting an aditional evade at the beginning of the fight, endurance on steal , heal on evade. etc. therefor people often option for either acrobatics or daredevil, rarely for both. ontop acrobatics had to be nerfed alot. improving on the acrobatics part, daredevil should have gotten a little bit more like mirage now, attacking during evades . that would have gone alot better with acrobatics.

> deadeye on the other hand is a mostly offensive traitline so it makes sense to run it with SA, unless ofc you are in PvE where you do not need any defense.

> daredevil was poorly designed for an elite spec, deadeye is alot better in that aspect IMO.

 

I was trying to make a point here MUDse, While I agree DE has more Stealth potential that doesn't mean it needs to be Stealth Focused. Stealth needs to be optional, player preferance. Not everyone loves Stealth. Outside of PvE, sure one can argue Stealth is crucial to the survival in a PvP/WvW environment, but there comes a problem when trying to force stealth focused and near forced play when trying to play in a PvE setting. I've done several dungeons now using my Deadeye and it's an absolute irritation trying to get into Stealth while in combat to use DJ. As already stated the Silent Scope dodge is damn near useless if you're already auto attacking, which will force you to pop a secondary stealth from your utility just to dump your Malice cause the first stealth failed. Not to mention the off change of the second stealth failing due to user input issues.

 

I'm just trying to get the Daredevil users to see how utterly redundant it is to take a class that doesn't always need stealth, then suddenly push it to require stealth all of the time if it wishes to deal an efficient amount of damage regardless of build and play style.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Vulcaruss.9567" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"Vulcaruss.9567" said:

> > > Alright so I have a hypothetical scenario for you people who continue to say this whole Stealth focused Deadeye is the best thing since sliced bread. Since you all think it's great lets apply the old saying "Whats good for the Goose is good for the Gander" and apply the same changes to Daredevil eh?

> > >

> > > (Hypothetical Example Changes)

> > > So, lets take Staff on Daredevil, Rip #5 Vault off of the staff replace it with a silly staff spin move that reflects projectiles, give Daredevil a new Energy source called "Acrobatic Momentum" Where you gain energy for it from using Acrobatic themed attacks that use Initiative, and also stacks when you preform a Dodge. Replace one of the Grand Master Trait so where you Acrobatically leap into Stealth, name it "Leap into the Shadows". The higher the Acrobatic Momentum energy you have the stronger your Stealth skills are, every skill on every weapon's Stealth skill is replaced with an Acrobatic themed skill based on the weapon. And Vault is now the Auto Attack Stealth Skill.

> > >

> > > Now tell me how would you feel about that? Daredevil already jumps through hoops to deal damage, why not make it jump through even more to do efficient damage? Doesn't that seem fun? Interesting? Intuitive? Unique? Or does it make the class seem over complicated, boring, a chore to play, not fun in general? I'll let the people decide...

> >

> > daredevil improves thief's acrobatic potential, while DE the stealth potential.

> > the diffference is daredevil IMO is a rather defensive/utility traitline in granting an aditional evade at the beginning of the fight, endurance on steal , heal on evade. etc. therefor people often option for either acrobatics or daredevil, rarely for both. ontop acrobatics had to be nerfed alot. improving on the acrobatics part, daredevil should have gotten a little bit more like mirage now, attacking during evades . that would have gone alot better with acrobatics.

> > deadeye on the other hand is a mostly offensive traitline so it makes sense to run it with SA, unless ofc you are in PvE where you do not need any defense.

> > daredevil was poorly designed for an elite spec, deadeye is alot better in that aspect IMO.

>

> I was trying to make a point here MUDse, While I agree DE has more Stealth potential that doesn't mean it needs to be Stealth Focused. Stealth needs to be optional, player preferance. Not everyone loves Stealth. Outside of PvE, sure one can argue Stealth is crucial to the survival in a PvP/WvW environment, but there comes a problem when trying to force stealth focused and near forced play when trying to play in a PvE setting. I've done several dungeons now using my Deadeye and it's an absolute irritation trying to get into Stealth while in combat to use DJ. As already stated the Snipers Cover dodge is kitten near useless if you're already auto attacking, which will force you to pop a secondary stealth from your utility just to dump your Malice cause the first stealth failed. Not to mention the off change of the second stealth failing due to user input issues.

>

> I'm just trying to get the Daredevil users to see how utterly redundant it is to take a class that doesn't always need stealth, then suddenly push it to require stealth all of the time if it wishes to deal an efficient amount of damage regardless of build and play style.

 

but on daredevil people didnt complain about dodges in their rotation, what makes it so different while playing deadeye?

[Vulcaruss.9567]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Vulcaruss.9567" said:

> > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > @"Vulcaruss.9567" said:

> > > > Alright so I have a hypothetical scenario for you people who continue to say this whole Stealth focused Deadeye is the best thing since sliced bread. Since you all think it's great lets apply the old saying "Whats good for the Goose is good for the Gander" and apply the same changes to Daredevil eh?

> > > >

> > > > (Hypothetical Example Changes)

> > > > So, lets take Staff on Daredevil, Rip #5 Vault off of the staff replace it with a silly staff spin move that reflects projectiles, give Daredevil a new Energy source called "Acrobatic Momentum" Where you gain energy for it from using Acrobatic themed attacks that use Initiative, and also stacks when you preform a Dodge. Replace one of the Grand Master Trait so where you Acrobatically leap into Stealth, name it "Leap into the Shadows". The higher the Acrobatic Momentum energy you have the stronger your Stealth skills are, every skill on every weapon's Stealth skill is replaced with an Acrobatic themed skill based on the weapon. And Vault is now the Auto Attack Stealth Skill.

> > > >

> > > > Now tell me how would you feel about that? Daredevil already jumps through hoops to deal damage, why not make it jump through even more to do efficient damage? Doesn't that seem fun? Interesting? Intuitive? Unique? Or does it make the class seem over complicated, boring, a chore to play, not fun in general? I'll let the people decide...

> > >

> > > daredevil improves thief's acrobatic potential, while DE the stealth potential.

> > > the diffference is daredevil IMO is a rather defensive/utility traitline in granting an aditional evade at the beginning of the fight, endurance on steal , heal on evade. etc. therefor people often option for either acrobatics or daredevil, rarely for both. ontop acrobatics had to be nerfed alot. improving on the acrobatics part, daredevil should have gotten a little bit more like mirage now, attacking during evades . that would have gone alot better with acrobatics.

> > > deadeye on the other hand is a mostly offensive traitline so it makes sense to run it with SA, unless ofc you are in PvE where you do not need any defense.

> > > daredevil was poorly designed for an elite spec, deadeye is alot better in that aspect IMO.

> >

> > I was trying to make a point here MUDse, While I agree DE has more Stealth potential that doesn't mean it needs to be Stealth Focused. Stealth needs to be optional, player preferance. Not everyone loves Stealth. Outside of PvE, sure one can argue Stealth is crucial to the survival in a PvP/WvW environment, but there comes a problem when trying to force stealth focused and near forced play when trying to play in a PvE setting. I've done several dungeons now using my Deadeye and it's an absolute irritation trying to get into Stealth while in combat to use DJ. As already stated the Snipers Cover dodge is kitten near useless if you're already auto attacking, which will force you to pop a secondary stealth from your utility just to dump your Malice cause the first stealth failed. Not to mention the off change of the second stealth failing due to user input issues.

> >

> > I'm just trying to get the Daredevil users to see how utterly redundant it is to take a class that doesn't always need stealth, then suddenly push it to require stealth all of the time if it wishes to deal an efficient amount of damage regardless of build and play style.

>

> but on daredevil people didnt complain about dodges in their rotation, what makes it so different while playing deadeye?

 

Mainly cause a lot of the Daredevil's Dodge's do damage on their own, the one I personally use, I forget it's name at the moment but it's like a Dodge like version of Death Blossom that deals Damage and Conditions on targets you Dodge over.

 

The problem with the Dodge-Stealth focused Deadeye is the problem of revealing yourself too soon, by accident or cause a bullet is in mid-air and hits the moment you dodge, causing you to have to scramble to force another stealth, just so you can use your Stealth Forced Attack Deaths Judgement now to dump your malice to keep restacking Malice.

 

On Daredevil, Stealth is Optional, on Core Thief stealth is also Optional. On Deadeye though Stealth is mandatory to do max damage, whether you like it or not due to Stealth Attack skills consuming Malice now.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Vulcaruss.9567" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"Vulcaruss.9567" said:

> > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > @"Vulcaruss.9567" said:

> > > > > Alright so I have a hypothetical scenario for you people who continue to say this whole Stealth focused Deadeye is the best thing since sliced bread. Since you all think it's great lets apply the old saying "Whats good for the Goose is good for the Gander" and apply the same changes to Daredevil eh?

> > > > >

> > > > > (Hypothetical Example Changes)

> > > > > So, lets take Staff on Daredevil, Rip #5 Vault off of the staff replace it with a silly staff spin move that reflects projectiles, give Daredevil a new Energy source called "Acrobatic Momentum" Where you gain energy for it from using Acrobatic themed attacks that use Initiative, and also stacks when you preform a Dodge. Replace one of the Grand Master Trait so where you Acrobatically leap into Stealth, name it "Leap into the Shadows". The higher the Acrobatic Momentum energy you have the stronger your Stealth skills are, every skill on every weapon's Stealth skill is replaced with an Acrobatic themed skill based on the weapon. And Vault is now the Auto Attack Stealth Skill.

> > > > >

> > > > > Now tell me how would you feel about that? Daredevil already jumps through hoops to deal damage, why not make it jump through even more to do efficient damage? Doesn't that seem fun? Interesting? Intuitive? Unique? Or does it make the class seem over complicated, boring, a chore to play, not fun in general? I'll let the people decide...

> > > >

> > > > daredevil improves thief's acrobatic potential, while DE the stealth potential.

> > > > the diffference is daredevil IMO is a rather defensive/utility traitline in granting an aditional evade at the beginning of the fight, endurance on steal , heal on evade. etc. therefor people often option for either acrobatics or daredevil, rarely for both. ontop acrobatics had to be nerfed alot. improving on the acrobatics part, daredevil should have gotten a little bit more like mirage now, attacking during evades . that would have gone alot better with acrobatics.

> > > > deadeye on the other hand is a mostly offensive traitline so it makes sense to run it with SA, unless ofc you are in PvE where you do not need any defense.

> > > > daredevil was poorly designed for an elite spec, deadeye is alot better in that aspect IMO.

> > >

> > > I was trying to make a point here MUDse, While I agree DE has more Stealth potential that doesn't mean it needs to be Stealth Focused. Stealth needs to be optional, player preferance. Not everyone loves Stealth. Outside of PvE, sure one can argue Stealth is crucial to the survival in a PvP/WvW environment, but there comes a problem when trying to force stealth focused and near forced play when trying to play in a PvE setting. I've done several dungeons now using my Deadeye and it's an absolute irritation trying to get into Stealth while in combat to use DJ. As already stated the Snipers Cover dodge is kitten near useless if you're already auto attacking, which will force you to pop a secondary stealth from your utility just to dump your Malice cause the first stealth failed. Not to mention the off change of the second stealth failing due to user input issues.

> > >

> > > I'm just trying to get the Daredevil users to see how utterly redundant it is to take a class that doesn't always need stealth, then suddenly push it to require stealth all of the time if it wishes to deal an efficient amount of damage regardless of build and play style.

> >

> > but on daredevil people didnt complain about dodges in their rotation, what makes it so different while playing deadeye?

>

> Mainly cause a lot of the Daredevil's Dodge's do damage on their own, the one I personally use, I forget it's name at the moment but it's like a Dodge like version of Death Blossom that deals Damage and Conditions on targets you Dodge over.

>

so the problem with it is that it is only a setup and not actually dealing damage itself...but if it is efficient for DPS who cares ?

> The problem with the Dodge-Stealth focused Deadeye is the problem of revealing yourself too soon, by accident or cause a bullet is in mid-air and hits the moment you dodge, causing you to have to scramble to force another stealth, just so you can use your Stealth Forced Attack Deaths Judgement now to dump your malice to keep restacking Malice.

>

well they already annaounced to put the stealth towards the end of the dodge so you will be able to dodge as soon as the bullets leave your rifle and shouldnt be revealed, maybe it will feel better then. i know currently i do have to watch the bullets myself. killed myself with such a reveal 2-3 times in WvW.

> On Daredevil, Stealth is Optional, on Core Thief stealth is also Optional. On Deadeye though Stealth is mandatory to do max damage, whether you like it or not due to Stealth Attack skills consuming Malice now.

but why would you choose a non stealthy deadeye? if you can play like that on core or daredevil i mean thats what the elite specs do? take one aspect of a class and improve on it. if you do not want to play with stealth, why would you run deadeye over daredevil?

[Vulcaruss.9567]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Vulcaruss.9567" said:

> > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > @"Vulcaruss.9567" said:

> > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > @"Vulcaruss.9567" said:

> > > > > > Alright so I have a hypothetical scenario for you people who continue to say this whole Stealth focused Deadeye is the best thing since sliced bread. Since you all think it's great lets apply the old saying "Whats good for the Goose is good for the Gander" and apply the same changes to Daredevil eh?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > (Hypothetical Example Changes)

> > > > > > So, lets take Staff on Daredevil, Rip #5 Vault off of the staff replace it with a silly staff spin move that reflects projectiles, give Daredevil a new Energy source called "Acrobatic Momentum" Where you gain energy for it from using Acrobatic themed attacks that use Initiative, and also stacks when you preform a Dodge. Replace one of the Grand Master Trait so where you Acrobatically leap into Stealth, name it "Leap into the Shadows". The higher the Acrobatic Momentum energy you have the stronger your Stealth skills are, every skill on every weapon's Stealth skill is replaced with an Acrobatic themed skill based on the weapon. And Vault is now the Auto Attack Stealth Skill.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Now tell me how would you feel about that? Daredevil already jumps through hoops to deal damage, why not make it jump through even more to do efficient damage? Doesn't that seem fun? Interesting? Intuitive? Unique? Or does it make the class seem over complicated, boring, a chore to play, not fun in general? I'll let the people decide...

> > > > >

> > > > > daredevil improves thief's acrobatic potential, while DE the stealth potential.

> > > > > the diffference is daredevil IMO is a rather defensive/utility traitline in granting an aditional evade at the beginning of the fight, endurance on steal , heal on evade. etc. therefor people often option for either acrobatics or daredevil, rarely for both. ontop acrobatics had to be nerfed alot. improving on the acrobatics part, daredevil should have gotten a little bit more like mirage now, attacking during evades . that would have gone alot better with acrobatics.

> > > > > deadeye on the other hand is a mostly offensive traitline so it makes sense to run it with SA, unless ofc you are in PvE where you do not need any defense.

> > > > > daredevil was poorly designed for an elite spec, deadeye is alot better in that aspect IMO.

> > > >

> > > > I was trying to make a point here MUDse, While I agree DE has more Stealth potential that doesn't mean it needs to be Stealth Focused. Stealth needs to be optional, player preferance. Not everyone loves Stealth. Outside of PvE, sure one can argue Stealth is crucial to the survival in a PvP/WvW environment, but there comes a problem when trying to force stealth focused and near forced play when trying to play in a PvE setting. I've done several dungeons now using my Deadeye and it's an absolute irritation trying to get into Stealth while in combat to use DJ. As already stated the Snipers Cover dodge is kitten near useless if you're already auto attacking, which will force you to pop a secondary stealth from your utility just to dump your Malice cause the first stealth failed. Not to mention the off change of the second stealth failing due to user input issues.

> > > >

> > > > I'm just trying to get the Daredevil users to see how utterly redundant it is to take a class that doesn't always need stealth, then suddenly push it to require stealth all of the time if it wishes to deal an efficient amount of damage regardless of build and play style.

> > >

> > > but on daredevil people didnt complain about dodges in their rotation, what makes it so different while playing deadeye?

> >

> > Mainly cause a lot of the Daredevil's Dodge's do damage on their own, the one I personally use, I forget it's name at the moment but it's like a Dodge like version of Death Blossom that deals Damage and Conditions on targets you Dodge over.

> >

> so the problem with it is that it is only a setup and not actually dealing damage itself...but if it is efficient for DPS who cares ?

> > The problem with the Dodge-Stealth focused Deadeye is the problem of revealing yourself too soon, by accident or cause a bullet is in mid-air and hits the moment you dodge, causing you to have to scramble to force another stealth, just so you can use your Stealth Forced Attack Deaths Judgement now to dump your malice to keep restacking Malice.

> >

> well they already annaounced to put the stealth towards the end of the dodge so you will be able to dodge as soon as the bullets leave your rifle and shouldnt be revealed, maybe it will feel better then. i know currently i do have to watch the bullets myself. killed myself with such a reveal 2-3 times in WvW.

> > On Daredevil, Stealth is Optional, on Core Thief stealth is also Optional. On Deadeye though Stealth is mandatory to do max damage, whether you like it or not due to Stealth Attack skills consuming Malice now.

> but why would you choose a non stealthy deadeye? if you can play like that on core or daredevil i mean thats what the elite specs do? take one aspect of a class and improve on it. if you do not want to play with stealth, why would you run deadeye over daredevil?

 

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Vulcaruss.9567" said:

> > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > @"Vulcaruss.9567" said:

> > > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > > @"Vulcaruss.9567" said:

> > > > > > Alright so I have a hypothetical scenario for you people who continue to say this whole Stealth focused Deadeye is the best thing since sliced bread. Since you all think it's great lets apply the old saying "Whats good for the Goose is good for the Gander" and apply the same changes to Daredevil eh?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > (Hypothetical Example Changes)

> > > > > > So, lets take Staff on Daredevil, Rip #5 Vault off of the staff replace it with a silly staff spin move that reflects projectiles, give Daredevil a new Energy source called "Acrobatic Momentum" Where you gain energy for it from using Acrobatic themed attacks that use Initiative, and also stacks when you preform a Dodge. Replace one of the Grand Master Trait so where you Acrobatically leap into Stealth, name it "Leap into the Shadows". The higher the Acrobatic Momentum energy you have the stronger your Stealth skills are, every skill on every weapon's Stealth skill is replaced with an Acrobatic themed skill based on the weapon. And Vault is now the Auto Attack Stealth Skill.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Now tell me how would you feel about that? Daredevil already jumps through hoops to deal damage, why not make it jump through even more to do efficient damage? Doesn't that seem fun? Interesting? Intuitive? Unique? Or does it make the class seem over complicated, boring, a chore to play, not fun in general? I'll let the people decide...

> > > > >

> > > > > daredevil improves thief's acrobatic potential, while DE the stealth potential.

> > > > > the diffference is daredevil IMO is a rather defensive/utility traitline in granting an aditional evade at the beginning of the fight, endurance on steal , heal on evade. etc. therefor people often option for either acrobatics or daredevil, rarely for both. ontop acrobatics had to be nerfed alot. improving on the acrobatics part, daredevil should have gotten a little bit more like mirage now, attacking during evades . that would have gone alot better with acrobatics.

> > > > > deadeye on the other hand is a mostly offensive traitline so it makes sense to run it with SA, unless ofc you are in PvE where you do not need any defense.

> > > > > daredevil was poorly designed for an elite spec, deadeye is alot better in that aspect IMO.

> > > >

> > > > I was trying to make a point here MUDse, While I agree DE has more Stealth potential that doesn't mean it needs to be Stealth Focused. Stealth needs to be optional, player preferance. Not everyone loves Stealth. Outside of PvE, sure one can argue Stealth is crucial to the survival in a PvP/WvW environment, but there comes a problem when trying to force stealth focused and near forced play when trying to play in a PvE setting. I've done several dungeons now using my Deadeye and it's an absolute irritation trying to get into Stealth while in combat to use DJ. As already stated the Snipers Cover dodge is kitten near useless if you're already auto attacking, which will force you to pop a secondary stealth from your utility just to dump your Malice cause the first stealth failed. Not to mention the off change of the second stealth failing due to user input issues.

> > > >

> > > > I'm just trying to get the Daredevil users to see how utterly redundant it is to take a class that doesn't always need stealth, then suddenly push it to require stealth all of the time if it wishes to deal an efficient amount of damage regardless of build and play style.

> > >

> > > but on daredevil people didnt complain about dodges in their rotation, what makes it so different while playing deadeye?

> >

> > Mainly cause a lot of the Daredevil's Dodge's do damage on their own, the one I personally use, I forget it's name at the moment but it's like a Dodge like version of Death Blossom that deals Damage and Conditions on targets you Dodge over.

> >

> so the problem with it is that it is only a setup and not actually dealing damage itself...but if it is efficient for DPS who cares ?

> > The problem with the Dodge-Stealth focused Deadeye is the problem of revealing yourself too soon, by accident or cause a bullet is in mid-air and hits the moment you dodge, causing you to have to scramble to force another stealth, just so you can use your Stealth Forced Attack Deaths Judgement now to dump your malice to keep restacking Malice.

> >

> well they already annaounced to put the stealth towards the end of the dodge so you will be able to dodge as soon as the bullets leave your rifle and shouldnt be revealed, maybe it will feel better then. i know currently i do have to watch the bullets myself. killed myself with such a reveal 2-3 times in WvW.

> > On Daredevil, Stealth is Optional, on Core Thief stealth is also Optional. On Deadeye though Stealth is mandatory to do max damage, whether you like it or not due to Stealth Attack skills consuming Malice now.

> but why would you choose a non stealthy deadeye? if you can play like that on core or daredevil i mean thats what the elite specs do? take one aspect of a class and improve on it. if you do not want to play with stealth, why would you run deadeye over daredevil?

 

The problem is it's not efficient for DPS in the first place, it actually does less damage than the old setup use to do when using a Rifle. What's more it makes the Deadeye's Rifle way too clunky for usage in PvE, even with moving the Stealth to the end of the Dodge, it still doesn't make this any more efficient for PvE usage.

 

As for the matter of Stealth, it shouldn't be a forced mechanic to take in the first place. As to why take Daredevil over Deadeye? Cause of the Sniper like play style the Deadeye gives... Or use to Give in this place. If I want to be an Evasive Melee user I'll just play my Mirage, it's much more satisfying. But if I want to be a long range DPS that crits 10-20-30 or even 40k on rare occasions? I chose Deadeye. Now the Dev's are trying to force this awkward in and out of stealth all the time focused play style that gets just plain boring and irritating to play after a while. It's not as Satisfying as the old Deadeye was.

 

The old Deadeye could be a Stealth Master, or a Non-Stealthy Sniper-Assassin that could perch on Cliff sides, Pillars, Rooftops. and pick enemy's off from afar with out having to get involved up close. Now the Deadeye isn't a Deadeye. It's more of a Gunslinger who's up close, down into the fray, leaping in and out of Stealth, always moving. Also I'd like to mention Pistols are more efficient than Rifle now thanks to the changes. So Gunslinger is an apt description at this point