Consolidated Suggestions for DE Changes

[MegiddoZO.3409]

> @"Miatela.5047" said:

>

> As nice as that sounds, it seems like it will be clunky and possibly a further DPS loss. That could be offset by damage buffs, which is needed anyway for PvE.

>

 

While its hard to say without having a way to try it out, I'd say it would be less clunky then having to dodge for it. For me, it already felt a bit clunky needing to dodges defensively on some raid bosses like Samarog; if you happened to do them in the wrong direction, you'd have to go through the awkward motions of having to Standup, walk to your preferred spot, and Kneel down again. This feeling would only increase if you'd add in offensive dodges as well.

 

And yeah, given that spamming Death's Judgement pre-patch only just barely kept up with the other DPS options and now it being limited to the stealth attack I would also hope they'd compensate in PvE by giving it a bit more oomph.

 

> Heartseeker being buffed in PvE could also be a solution but then dagger/dagger would need to be a very high DPS single target option due to the loss of cleave. Auto-attack granting Malice could work, but does leave us with an insipid and boring rotation.

>

>

 

That's a good point, that could also work. I'm just trying to spitball ideas here in the spirit of the rework, and the auto-attack one just seemed logical to me.

 

[Swiftwynd.1685]

> @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

> Heya, thanks for the thoughtful and well-formatted feedback. I wasn't sure if I should post again after my last "thanks for the feedback" post was misinterpreted. But I wanted to give it one more shot since I thought some of these ideas were pretty cool.

>

> So first things first...

> We are planning to move the stealth application on the Silent Scope trait from the start of the dodge roll to the end. There are pros and cons to each version so I want to explain the reasoning. We originally put the stealth at the beginning of the dodge to make it more responsive and to give it a sneaky feel by hiding the direction of your roll. However given problems some players are having with being revealed by bullets in flight, we've decided to move it to the end. This should make the moment-to-moment gameplay with rifle feel smoother and more intuitive. We are also removing the in-combat restriction from this trait.

>

> Moving forward from here…

> You'll see this change in an update coming in a few weeks. (I think we'd all like that to happen sooner but our team doesn't control the update cycle and we need to wait for other changes in the update be implemented, tested, etc.) While this doesn't address all of the feedback we've seen so far it was the one we were able to ship in the shortest amount of time. We will continue to follow up as necessary so please continue to leave your feedback on the forums.

 

Thank you so much for the communication , it really means a lot to know this is getting resolved! :)

 

I would like to add on to what everyone else has said about the viability of Deadeye in the raiding and fractal environment as well, and hopefully something can be adjusted between now and that patch as well:

 

The current changes have reduced the rifle's damage viability by around 20% in a raiding environment, and it also feels extremely clunky for the "best use" of the rifle to be in point-blank range, and for the current best damage build to be a dagger/dagger build that ignores rifle and Malice entirely.

 

One concept I've seen that would be really unique for the Deadeye specialization is the concept of adding a ***"Remote Presence"*** minor trait that would allow the Deadeye to gain additional damage based on their distance from the foe and also receive ***any beneficial effects used near their Marked target.*** I would suggest making ***Renewing Gaze*** a baseline part of the Mark effect in Deadeye's Gaze trait to make room for this new trait.

 

---

 

***Remote Presence***

"Deal bonus damage based on your distance to your Marked foe. Receive any beneficial effects used at your marked target position."

600-1,200 distance - 13% damage boost

Beyond 1200 distance - 20% damage boost

 

---

 

Basically, it would be as if any passive effects, boons, or healing applied in the radius of your marked target, prioritizing based on your subgroup, would transfer to the Deadeye as if they were presently standing at that position.

 

This would allow a Deadeye to stand away from "the stack" while still receiving all the benefits of being a member of their subsquad. This could allow them to actually perform unique raid roles, such as being the Shard Kiter on Cairn, set up in interesting locations during Escort / Bandit Trio, and be able to still maintain good damage on fights that require you to spread out regularly (such as Matthias), providing the rifle some really interesting gameplay options even if its damage is "less" than other alternatives and not ideal in every scenario.

 

The rifle's base damage in PVP can be adjusted slightly to account for the new Remote Prescence, making the counter play for Deadeye involving always closing the distance, while the Deadeye player will be rewarded for kiting well or picking people off points quickly when they +1 someone.

 

 

Raid encounters this would be extremely useful on:

 

Vale Guardian - Green Circles while doing competent dps would be highly desirable.

Gorseval - Clearing orbs super fast, able to stay "far out" past the black tantrum circles if doing slow break to remain stationary more frequently.

Sabetha - as the Flack Kiter this would drastically improve their ability to provide damage while kiting the flack.

 

Bandit Trio - would allow them to guard the cage a bit better, pick off the other snipers, and throw oil kegs while sniping the third boss.

Matthias - great for the whole fight, might be decent enough to compete with Mirage for viability on consistently doing damage.

 

Escort - Moderately useful

Keep Construct - Less useful, but would assist with picking off the phantasms from range to kill them faster once they are in range.

Xera - Would be quite nice on the "button" phases with the shards, and also on clearing the shards really quickly while moving Xera around on the platform.

 

Cairn - Could become extremely viable for the "shard kiter" role.

Deimos - Ranged strategy it would work extremely well.

 

Soulless Horror - would be fantastic on this fight, able to stay further back and avoid flame walls with standing rifle 4 if well timed, and avoid a lot of her cleave and continue to do damage while she's moving, and less likely to cleave down the Tormented Dead as other power builds. Deadeye is just screaming to be viable on this fight, but it needs those remote boons/banners/passives.

 

Statues - Already does great on Ice King and decent on other statues.

 

Dhuum - A lot of applicability here as the kiter if running Invigorating Precision and could assist with boss dps while performing this role.

[saerni.2584]

@"MUDse.7623"

 

Yes, the version I listed would keep the “gain malice on using an initiative skill that does strike damage” aspect. The difference is that the initiative cost of those skills would have an impact on malice gain so there is no advantage to spamming the most efficient skill.

 

Thank you to the the devs for the kind responses. ( @"Robert Gee.9246" and @"Gaile Gray.6029" ) I’ll update the OP to reflect the dodge roll change in progress. I’ll also comb through this thread and update the OP within the guidelines I initially stated. The goal isn’t to summarize *all* feedback but rather the feedback that conforms to the explicit and implicit purpose behind the DE rework.

 

I’ll respond briefly to the stealth access issue for P/P compared to other sets. As mainhand Pistol has always been a hybrid weapon (Sneak Attack) the offhand has always determined the “flavor” of the set. P/P with Unload behaves more like a power focused hybrid and P/D is a condi focused hybrid (much more condi than power). I don’t consider the power/condi balance on Sneak Attack a DE issue (and one that I prefer to keep separate from a thread about DE).

 

That said, the Deadeye specific issue for P/P is that Malicious Sneak Attack is required to clear malice to use M7 in light of how easy it is to push max malice using Unload. This feels less like a reward and more like a chore. The solution might be to add some power-typed bonus in addition to torment. However, this may require taking some of the bonuses out of Unload to not make the set too strong.

 

Ultimately, I feel this makes the, very real, P/P issue unsuitable for a Deadeye focused rework consolidation thread and more a general thread on how to reduce how overloaded Unload is for power P/P.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"saerni.2584" said:

> @"MUDse.7623"

>

> Yes, the version I listed would keep the “gain malice on using an initiative skill that does strike damage” aspect. The difference is that the initiative cost of those skills would have an impact on malice gain so there is no advantage to spamming the most efficient skill.

 

ok how does it work with unload then? do you count it as a 5 ini skill or 3 ini or depending on how much you gained back?

 

[Armaelus.6120]

I hate stealth on dodging... give me back the stealth like it was with kneel !

[saerni.2584]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"saerni.2584" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623"

> >

> > Yes, the version I listed would keep the “gain malice on using an initiative skill that does strike damage” aspect. The difference is that the initiative cost of those skills would have an impact on malice gain so there is no advantage to spamming the most efficient skill.

>

> ok how does it work with unload then? do you count it as a 5 ini skill or 3 ini or depending on how much you gained back?

>

 

I’d count it as a 5 initiative skill. The refund depends on landing all bullets so it seems unfair to assume all bullets will land for the purposes of malice generation.

 

Personally, given the massive synergy between M7 and Unload’s refund mechanic, I’d hope that Unload gets a balance pass that reduces the initiative refund and increases the initiative cost. That’s outside the scope of this thread though. DE makes a spammy weapon skill (Unload) even more spammy.

 

You might think “this boosts P/P too much” but the malice change actually won’t really effect P/P because it already (1) gains malice very quickly and (2) is malice gated around gaining stealth to reset the malice (or using Mercy to reset).

[Relwin.7569]

Been playing as deadeye and main issue won't be rather solved by silent scope's changes. All stealth mechanics will be wonky always and ever and reason why kneeling stealth worked well was because u sacreficed a little bit time to kneel and u have 100% safe stealth without surprise of reveal.

So I'd rather recommend to implement changes that bothers ranged combat for thief. Since rifle is now ranged weapon that requires stealth mechanics to be effective and competetive, i recommend one of ways below:

A) Make stealth immune to reveal for 1 sec due to still flying bullets to target.

B ) Change stealth mechanic so it will only count from skills used since when stealth started. No surprise afterwards. (I think it'd take more work cause it'd be total stealth revamp)

C) Give silent scope also 3 sec window to use single stealth attack which will work whether stealth was broken or not. Also slap this window to all other stealths if this trait was chosen. - This would help ranged combat a lot. You could be revealed anyway cause how stealth works, but u can still execute stealth attack which would fix all the issues.

D) If stealth attacks won't work still, maybe make deadeye to not go stealth but to rather gain MALICIOUS ATTACK WINDOW in place of stealth which would give reveal bonus along with malicious only attacks to be activated. This would make deadeye stealthless but damn effective at dealing combo.

 

Personally i hope for option B to work, it's best. Alternatively option C feels good in my opinion. For those who will cry that it's too broken - being punished for how buggy stealth is, is way more unfair than anything else. Imagine mesmers having all combo skills suddenly go on cooldown - that's what is happening to thief right now. Basically latest patch ruined my fun as deadeye. I could be countered, but nothing feels worse than being unable to execute killshot cause reveal without chance to even counter react for it. And playing d/pis fun but it's not my thing. I wanted to play sniper.

 

Waiting weeks for fix patch to solve class breaking issue. I guess i shelf guild wars 2 till then. I'll track forums.

[kash.9213]

> @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > I just noted something very odd as I started more play on rifle.

> >

> > If you use skill 4 for SNIPERS Cover and immediately follow up the laying down of the field with TWO deaths retreats in a row even if the second no longer in range of the field, you will stack stealth twice. This happens ONLY in WvW (I have not tested PvP) If you do the same thing in PVE you get one stealth trigger. Whether intended or not I do not know but I sort of like it in WvW.

>

> that was actually the first thing i tried, multiple stacking but I couldn't get it to work the way i wanted. Are you laying them in the same area right on top of each other or at a slight distance between? when the changes first dropped that was the first thing i wanted to see if stealthed could be stacked due to how little initiative the fields were but I dunno, I will keep trying.

>

> Ok, I reread your post, i see what you are doing now, i will test.

>

> Ok test done, you were right I think they do double stack.

 

Probably being held down for not released all the way before the second one to chain it, double DR happens if I get a quick lag spike it a lot.

[Will.9785]

My thread was merged/closed, which means now no one will see it and comment, so I'm mentioning this again here.

 

I would like to see them address the issue of requiring stealth to make use of malice.

 

I would like you to seriously consider adding an F3 where we can consume malice stacks for an attack boost (either for the next weapon skill or some period of time - though I feel the former is closer to the current design implementation).

 

F3 - Consume Malice - An instant-cast ability that boosts the next weapon skill's power and condition damage by 7% per stack (10% if the attack is done while stealthed)

 

Why this change? Several weapon sets do not have easy access to stealth and/or the new malicious skills are underwhelming (sword) or clash altogether (e.g. pistol/pistol malicious attack is condi-based).

 

With this change the malicious skills would not be needed, as players would be able to control when the malice is used and on which skills. It would also mean that malice has some use on non-stealth builds (just like it did before the rework) while providing a little added benefit while stealthed.

[Specialka.7290]

> @"Will.9785" said:

> My thread was merged/closed, which means now no one will see it and comment, so I'm mentioning this again here.

>

> I would like to see them address the issue of requiring stealth to make use of malice.

>

> I would like you to seriously consider adding an F3 where we can consume malice stacks for an attack boost (either for the next weapon skill or some period of time - though I feel the former is closer to the current design implementation).

>

> F3 - Consume Malice - An instant-cast ability that boosts the next weapon skill's power and condition damage by 7% per stack (10% if the attack is done while stealthed)

>

> Why this change? Several weapon sets do not have easy access to stealth and/or the new malicious skills are underwhelming (sword) or clash altogether (e.g. pistol/pistol malicious attack is condi-based).

>

> With this change the malicious skills would not be needed, as players would be able to control when the malice is used and on which skills. It would also mean that malice has some use on non-stealth builds (just like it did before the rework) while providing a little added benefit while stealthed.

 

If anything, p/p DE should be nerf in Pvp at least. And I am not a fan of a ranged specs used for melee, goes against its design.

[stone cold.8609]

Could you find a way to let us use Malice stacks that are not tied to stealth?

 

I actually like the concept of the Malice changes and find that it makes my current build a bit stronger and much more interesting to play; however, I play a D/D + P/P or SB condi build that doesn't use stealth in PvE. I can generate Malice extremely quickly, but have no good options to use it with the current DE. This aspect of the spec feels incomplete and a bit unsatisfying.

 

As Will.9785 suggested, how about giving DE an F3 button with the option to use something similar to the Warrior burst?

 

> @"Will.9785" said:

> My thread was merged/closed, which means now no one will see it and comment, so I'm mentioning this again here.

>

> I would like to see them address the issue of requiring stealth to make use of malice.

>

> I would like you to seriously consider adding an F3 where we can consume malice stacks for an attack boost (either for the next weapon skill or some period of time - though I feel the former is closer to the current design implementation).

>

> F3 - Consume Malice - An instant-cast ability that boosts the next weapon skill's power and condition damage by 7% per stack (10% if the attack is done while stealthed)

>

> Why this change? Several weapon sets do not have easy access to stealth and/or the new malicious skills are underwhelming (sword) or clash altogether (e.g. pistol/pistol malicious attack is condi-based).

>

> With this change the malicious skills would not be needed, as players would be able to control when the malice is used and on which skills. It would also mean that malice has some use on non-stealth builds (just like it did before the rework) while providing a little added benefit while stealthed.

 

 

[Gaile Gray.6029]

> @"ulgnaw.8376" said:

> @"Gaile Gray.6029" @"Robert Gee.9246" Since this thread is getting attention, I'd like to point out there was a lot of feedback in the original thread where the DE changes were announced. I suggest reading through them. I'd also like to echo that there is still a group of DE players that would just rather have the entire change reverted, with the chief reasoning being that the new deadeye playstyle is not sniper-like.

>

> It would be nice to get a response on whether or not a sniper-like playstyle will ever be supported again. Because as it is, the new deadeye playstyle is less unique. For example, if I'm phasing in and out of stealth for deception to set up a shot, I'd rather just play Mesmer/Mirage which has its own deception mechanic and is much more potent in traditional combat.

>

> The reason there's a deadeye "community" so to speak is because it afforded a unique playstyle that can no longer be found. It would be nice to hear this addressed or at explicitly noted that it will no longer be supported going forward.

>

Thanks, and you're right. Robert is aware of the original thread and the feedback it contained. Players who posted there shared a lot of good idea, and they won't go unseen. They can, if they wish, repost them here, or they can count on Robert and the team to know there are two active and valid threads that they'd want to review.

 

[babazhook.6805]

Assuming we want to keep the trait in some form.

 

Burst of Shadows. Th issue with this skill is it does nothing in a 1v1 and when in group play the odds of a downed target being rezzed by friends that are around the target go way up. In other words it will rarely trigger.

 

Solution. When the mark is DOWNED , the skill is triggered after a 1 second delay. Nearby enemies are knocked back.

 

This means it will still be of some use in a 1v1 and will be more likely to tag people in group play even as the knockback provides added utility.

[DemonSeed.3528]

After more playing around with the current de changes, I haven't found a way to play it like in its previous version. The kneel is just too disjointed ruining the smoothness in transition for it's in & out method of playstyle - maybe some other people don't have problems with it, but for now it'll require much more time for me to even enjoy or get mechanically used to it. On the other hand, I've ended up with a "rambo machine gunner quickness evade" build instead. It's funny but it's no sniper build. I couldn't find a way to use the dodge stealth/kneel reset mechanic to work smoothly, and due to this I had to opt for non stealth quickness/evasion build to spam rifle 3 using haste (rambo mode). Also because of this, kneeling rifle 4 cannot really be used where you are in range or you will get bombed with aoe. Positioning yourself on a ledge somewhere would be fine had the dodge stealth/reset stealth not been quirky. I have tried to use dj but I end up just 333333333333. It works, it's so so with the fun factor but it's not as fun as sniper deadeye. Whilst I could possibly see some use of kneeling rifle 4 in pve, in wvw/pvp the usage is only for very rare situations at least in my case. Stealthing with kneel rifle4 and death's retreat is better done when way out of range of enemies because of the kneel/getting up unreliability factor. I have no issues with rifle 2/3. Pulling a DJ I feel is just really weird now, because previously you could just 2,3 out of stealth and then do your DJ. Now you can't do that because you have to 2,3 dodge stealth, dj, reset stealth kneel, dodge, etc, a bit too predictable unless you just go straight to stealth and dj when you have full stacks of malice (also very predictable).

Are you people using dj less now since the changes? Aside from the lower dmg side of things, it's just turned me into a rifle 3 spammer. rifle 1/4/5 both standing/kneel need to be looked at further. Any changes applied must also consider the mechanical smoothness and tactic of gameplay. If the dodge stealth mechanic is going to be kept, there needs to be a better method of resetting, this is where the big disconnect is. In comparison with before, going into a kneel and dodging or getting up from your position felt much more natural than doing a dodge, then a kneel, then getting up [because you would waste a potential dodge stealth if you just dodged straight away]. This new way of stealthing is more of a mechanical impediment that is also tied to endurance and extra button presses. Setting up for a dj burst was also much more natural, but now your first shot from stealth (can't use others or you have to restealth to use dj so no real surprise attacks or you have to stealth twice) can only be the dj for the malice burst instead of skirmisher/spotter+DT/TRB (followed by kneeling dj). Past DJ only required kneeling stance that you could use with/without stealthing. My dj's are also not worth pulling off due to the clunky nature of it, they just don't feel on the same level.

[Vulcaruss.9567]

> @"stone cold.8609" said:

> Could you find a way to let us use Malice stacks that are not tied to stealth?

>

> I actually like the concept of the Malice changes and find that it makes my current build a bit stronger and much more interesting to play; however, I play a D/D + P/P or SB condi build that doesn't use stealth in PvE. I can generate Malice extremely quickly, but have no good options to use it with the current DE. This aspect of the spec feels incomplete and a bit unsatisfying.

>

> As Will.9785 suggested, how about giving DE an F3 button with the option to use something similar to the Warrior burst?

>

> > @"Will.9785" said:

> > My thread was merged/closed, which means now no one will see it and comment, so I'm mentioning this again here.

> >

> > I would like to see them address the issue of requiring stealth to make use of malice.

> >

> > I would like you to seriously consider adding an F3 where we can consume malice stacks for an attack boost (either for the next weapon skill or some period of time - though I feel the former is closer to the current design implementation).

> >

> > F3 - Consume Malice - An instant-cast ability that boosts the next weapon skill's power and condition damage by 7% per stack (10% if the attack is done while stealthed)

> >

> > Why this change? Several weapon sets do not have easy access to stealth and/or the new malicious skills are underwhelming (sword) or clash altogether (e.g. pistol/pistol malicious attack is condi-based).

> >

> > With this change the malicious skills would not be needed, as players would be able to control when the malice is used and on which skills. It would also mean that malice has some use on non-stealth builds (just like it did before the rework) while providing a little added benefit while stealthed.

>

>

 

I suggested the idea of an F3 skill as well on the first page, it's a little more complex than yours and, but I think my version allows for more build diversity, and not limiting the Deadeye to be forced to only take Stealth required builds.

[DemonSeed.3528]

Why not keep the old way and the new way (on the rifle) but as a stance that can be toggled only out of combat? That would allow for flexible/dynamic rifle play.

[Vulcaruss.9567]

> @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> Why not keep the old way and the new way (on the rifle) but as a stance that can be toggled only out of combat? That would allow for flexible/dynamic rifle play.

 

You're going to need to elaborate on that a bit more DemonSeed, Detail is everything here.

[DemonSeed.3528]

> @"Vulcaruss.9567" said:

> > @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > Why not keep the old way and the new way (on the rifle) but as a stance that can be toggled only out of combat? That would allow for flexible/dynamic rifle play.

>

> You're going to need to elaborate on that a bit more DemonSeed, Detail is everything here.

 

A stance to toggle between the old rifle and the new changes. how the old dj worked etc. not much to say really it's straightforward. for some they will prefer the way the old dj worked with the kneel, others might prefer the newer way with the dodge stealth mechanic. Have a toggle for the old rifle/new rifle mechanics as a stance.

[Vulcaruss.9567]

> @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > @"Vulcaruss.9567" said:

> > > @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > > Why not keep the old way and the new way (on the rifle) but as a stance that can be toggled only out of combat? That would allow for flexible/dynamic rifle play.

> >

> > You're going to need to elaborate on that a bit more DemonSeed, Detail is everything here.

>

> A stance to toggle between the old rifle and the new changes. how the old dj worked etc. not much to say really it's straightforward. for some they will prefer the way the old dj worked with the kneel, others might prefer the newer way with the dodge stealth mechanic. Have a toggle for the old rifle/new rifle mechanics as a stance.

 

Hmm interesting Idea but i can see something like that more along the lines of a Grand Master Trait thing kinda like how Daredevil can choose between dodge types, make the 3 GM traits give different purposes to Malice utilization.

 

[DemonSeed.3528]

> @"Vulcaruss.9567" said:

> > @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > > @"Vulcaruss.9567" said:

> > > > @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > > > Why not keep the old way and the new way (on the rifle) but as a stance that can be toggled only out of combat? That would allow for flexible/dynamic rifle play.

> > >

> > > You're going to need to elaborate on that a bit more DemonSeed, Detail is everything here.

> >

> > A stance to toggle between the old rifle and the new changes. how the old dj worked etc. not much to say really it's straightforward. for some they will prefer the way the old dj worked with the kneel, others might prefer the newer way with the dodge stealth mechanic. Have a toggle for the old rifle/new rifle mechanics as a stance.

>

> Hmm interesting Idea but i can see something like that more along the lines of a Grand Master Trait thing kinda like how Daredevil can choose between dodge types, make the 3 GM traits give different purposes to Malice utilization.

>

 

That is another interesting way it could be done.

[eldrjth.7384]

I compiled a list of changes I want to make to make my earlier suggestion more simple to understand. In summary, Malice is an initiative generation mechanic by default. Malicious strikes can be performed without needing stealth, at max malice when dodge rolling. Ive put all the boonshare abilities back because you either have them or you dont, going half way reduces the value of taking the others. _Edit: Silent scope is now baseline to rifles._

 

**Malice mechanic:**

 

- Gain malice when striking a marked target. Malice is no longer lost after killing an enemy. Gain 5 initiative when max malice is reached.

- Gain access to a malicious strike when stealthed or performing a dodge roll at max malice. Performing a malicious strike spends all malice.

 

New minor trait (Remote Presence as suggested earlier I prefer to call itL unseen unheard)

Gain boons from allies around your marked target. Boons you apply affect both allies around yourself and around your marked target. (range eg. 240) _I had the same thought as the poster above for a little while when rifle mobility was truly awful._

 

Adept

-Malicious intent. Automatically gain 1 malice when malice resets.

-Payback

-One in the chamber.

 

Master

-expert marksman. Gain fury (4s) after performing malicious strike gain ferocity while under the effects of fury.

-peripheral vision

-Premeditation.

 

Grandmaster

-M7 Max malice is increased to 7. Gain 15% bonus damage to malicious attacks per stack of malice. Instead gain 7 initiative and boons at max malice stacks.

-Bqobk Gain quickness (3s) after delivering a malicious strike or marking a target. Gain power/precision while under this effect.

-Fire for Effect

 

Another change I want is to make is actions after you cast mark are buffed and dont cancel the casting of mark. (unless that action is a dodge roll).

[stone cold.8609]

> @"Vulcaruss.9567" said:

>

> I suggested the idea of an F3 skill as well on the first page, it's a little more complex than yours and, but I think my version allows for more build diversity, and not limiting the Deadeye to be forced to only take Stealth required builds.

 

I like it! Giving players who don't use stealth an opportunity to use Malice stacks would greatly enhance the elite specialization.

 

 

[saerni.2584]

@"AikijinX.6258" Appended your suggestions re: kneel and sniper’s cover to the OP.

[Gray.9041]

While it's not as specific as might be helpful, I'd like to leave my thoughts here as well:

 

I think there are a few issues with deadeye, but looking specifically at the lastest changes, there's one area I'd like to focus on: PvE.

 

It feels like a lot of the recent changes were done with PvP or WvW in mind, and those seem to be the placed where these changes have shown some improvements. However, Deadeye has been quite weak in PvE since Path of Fire launched, and the latest changes haven't helped in that regard.

 

Firstly, most of the benefits Deadeye gets are less pronounced in most non-trivial content. DE sacrifices Mobility, AoE damage (especially when you compare rifle to staff) and traditional steal skills in order to gain access to... range? the damage on deadeye has rarely matched and never exceeded that of Daredevil, which is hardly an overtuned spec. DE utility isn't massively impressive either, and the boon-sharing aspect of the spec pales in comparison to other classes (being unable to provide any boons with certainty to a group outside of might and fury, the two most common boons.)

 

The main benefit (assuming that the rifle is used) is ranged damage. However, given the stacking meta, and the prevalence of AoEs on end-game content, this is hardly a gain. even in open world, unless partied with someone to take the aggro, the range quickly disappears as enemies close on you. Even bounties, the content seemingly most fitting for deadeye, often have instabilities which reduce how far one can effectively fight them from.

 

Another issue is stealth. Deadeye has always been more stealth-based than Daredevil, but the recent changed have made this much more concrete. And, unfortnately, stealth has no place in end-game PvE content. Most bosses will attack with AoEs, directional attack, or specific auras. Very few require the player to be specifically targetted, and most sneaky players will quickly discover that stealth provides little to no benefit in endgame PvE content. Previously this wasn't so much an issue, as it was possible to run a stealthless deadeye - one focused entirely on damage. However, as stealth becomes a requirement for damage, we now have to swap out damage traits/skills for those which provide stealth, thus lowering our damage in an attempt to maintain our damage.

 

Mobility is also a big issue. Most Raids and Fractals will require some movement - even the DPS golem bosses require the player to avoid certain hazards if they wish to survive. Previously, this was a massive hurdle for the deadeye - the mid strategy on Deimos was the only place DE was generally accepted, and even then, somewhat begrudgingly. With the requirement for stealth pushing deadeye towards silent scope, their only remaining mobility (dodge rolls) are suddenly wrapped up in their damage, meaning that a deadeye can provide their full (but still sub-optimal) damage, or stand a chance at survival, but not both.

 

I'm curious as to what the developers think of deadeye in (end-game) PvE. what they think it should provide, how they feel it's doing, and whether they're happy with it's current state.

[Almondjoy.8964]

> @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> Thanks, and you're right. Robert is aware of the original thread and the feedback it contained. Players who posted there shared a lot of good idea, and they won't go unseen. They can, if they wish, repost them here, or they can count on Robert and the team to know there are two active and valid threads that they'd want to review.

>

 

I made suggested a change to "Malicious Intent" and since its okay i'll repost my thoughts here

 

To address the PvE DPS drop I mentioned having the trait give a unique buff at max Malice that gives a 2% dmg buff per malice that last for 3secs. 1% buff in PvP and WvW

 

Because it adds up with Iron sight it would make a 20%-24% depending on having M7 or not. The previous passive dmg buff was at 15%-21% but persisted but since the new version would be transient I think the slight damage percent increase is warranted. This would also return DJ to its previous DPS numbers while also reinforcing the Dev's philosophy on making malice interactive by encouraging you to use it rather keep it as a passive. Not only does it make malice even more interactive but it also reinforces a design principle that is apart of the class which appears to be space and time to set up and pick your spots.

 

I will say that because it would be hard to predict the outcome of opening up the trait to other weapons sets as the scope of this post is primarily focused on rifles but it could be stretched out to other weapons sets potentially. My biggest concern is just D/D with this. This could also be implemented on top of "Silent scope" so that there is no overlap of insane dmg with bottom trait on the same track.

 

I do like the OP's suggestion on the trait as well as both would most likely improve DPS which is my concern atm.