Balance the scourge now, not when next expansion comes

[SweetPotato.7456]

If you want to neft scourge, you have to understand why people are "not happy" with the current state of Scourge. You are not unhappy with scourge, You are unhappy because players are zerging.

 

If Scourge is neft, the scourge single roamers will be rendered unplayable.

[narcx.3570]

> @"Rezzet.3614" said:

> the problem is in groups scourge trains are unstoppable they counter everything and have no counterplay its gotten to such levels i have seen 6 whole guilds running scourge only blobs with a handful firebrands

 

I think Barrier desperately needs some sort of counter play beyond, "Uhhh, just do more damage or run away until it wears off," because in its current state, barrier is the strongest defensive ability in the game for extended fights and there's literally nothing you can do against it, I mean not really... It's much stronger than healing because it's not affected by Poison and there's no "overhealing" factor at risk with it--you can give somebody 10k worth of barrier and none of it will be wasted, so you don't even have to pay attention to what's going on or use your skills wisely, not like how a Druid can waste his ca3 and 4 healing somebody who was only down 2k health if he's terrible enough.

 

There's no reason (other than maybe it'd be difficult for them to program) that something like an Unblockable attack shouldn't also pierce through barrier... Or even if like a boon removal skill could chip off a % of it. Something though... Just something to make you feel like you can actively counter it.

 

> @"SweetPotato.7456" said:

> If you want to neft scourge, you have to understand why people are "not happy" with the current state of Scourge. You are not unhappy with scourge, You are unhappy because players are zerging.

>

> If Scourge is neft, the scourge single roamers will be rendered unplayable.

 

They could make it so shade skills from different scourges can't hit the same target with the same effect at the same time (be it a corrupt on an enemy or a barrier on an ally)... Sort of like when they fixed it so you couldn't stack 3 shades on a target to quadruple hit with your f5.

 

While I do think something like this would be pretty extreme, and a terrible decision since it would require a lot of coordination and limit the number of scourges you could bring before they'd just be straight up wasting casts, it IS an example of how they could nerf scourges without hurting the roaming ones...

 

Once again this is just an example, I don't think they should actually do this... People shouldn't be punished that hard for stacking classes--but, then again, stacked classes shouldn't be as strong as a horde of Scourges is.

[X T D.6458]

Barrier counters itself lol, it degens after a short delay and can be removed through damage. What more do you need?

[SloRules.3560]

Wtf are you people even talking about? Trailblazer scourge hasn't been used in months, by any semi serious guild, it's all celestial or even some grieving in there. On celestial scourge does about 40% condi dmg and 60% power dmg on average(while running dhuumfire).

 

Problem with scourge is not the condies, because they aren't the things that kill you, it's the corrupts. You have range corrupts and a huge amount when in melee range, while doing damage at the same time. If you stack 10 scourges, that is going to be 10 boons per person in specific area corrupted AT RANGE, than a mesmer or 2 can just pull everyone together AT RANGE again. That's the thing that elementalist or revenant cant achive, that battlefield control. I'm playing mesmer and there was a huge difference between 4 necros (league rules) or 8 (optimal comp), every single CC i do hits and that 1s stun or even gwell is going to kill the people.

 

If you do full combo, with stealth, bubble, gwell, shades, chain bubble, gwell, wells, you are going to onepush a whole guild or if its pugs, kill 3x the numbers you have.

 

Scourge has to sacrifice something, corrupts or damage, currently those 2 things are way to effective together. If you want high boonrip you should sacrifice damage for it.

 

EDIT: NO, ranger doesn't counter scourge in any real way in group wvw.

[Catchyfx.5768]

What I would like to see is better scaling of barriers - I mean if you go full zerker or viper you get **much less** barier from F5 and F3 and Utility skillz(not healing one...) but if you go full healstats you will apply little bit more then now.

 

Corrupting of condis is OK for me...boonvagoon needs counter

and right now only F5 does some real dmg.

 

 

[Jski.6180]

> @"Dralor.3701" said:

> > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > @"DeadlySynz.3471" said:

> > > > @"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

> > > > why do scourges, who benefit from trailblazer, have insanely high base hp, also get tons of barrier?

> > > >

> > > > If a class should not benefit from barriers at all, it would be scourges.

> > > >

> > > > Take away barrier and/or lower their hp - and the scourge problem would evaporate overnight.

> > > >

> > > > It is kind of ridiculous that a well placed power bomb takes out scores of revs and make firebrands go in panic heal mode while scourges don't even notice that something is going on.

> > >

> > > Probably because they have no mobility. The one skill people try to claim is mobility (sand swell), actually only gains about 200-300 units when used. If used side by side with someone running, due to cast time and how it lands; it's basically like a short teleport

> > >

> > > The scourge's main problem is their mobility, they are complete sitting ducks to ranged classes. It's the biggest mismatch in the game. A ranger can kill a scourge in less than 7 seconds even despite all the barrier and healing throw at it.

> > >

> > > That "well placed power bomb" can easily be eradicated with literally 1 ranger in the group. So the problem isn't the scourge itself, it's the players unwillingness to play classes to counter them that's the crux of the issue. So when you mention "scourges don't even notice something that's going on" tells me that the groups of you've been in either have little to no ranged classes or your squad leaders/commanders refuse to have players run them. Again, that is a player problem, not a scourge problem.

> >

> > They have mobility and there skills are ranged as well as melee so in a way there attks are very mobile as well.

> >

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Swell 900 and it can be reused as well as core necro Spectral Walk IS a form of mobility.

>

> Yeah, they can run two swiftness utilities, swell and three wells all at once. 6 utilities OP.

>

> This is what is so frustrating, we can’t have real conversations on the forums because some people are always going to make up the most ridiculous arguments. Please decide which aspects of the class you want to discuss and let’s talk.

>

> Ranged power classes have no issue dealing with the scourge, obviously it is hard for melee in the big fights but it is a joke fighting one 1v1 as a sb.

 

Swiftness? No about being able to port back from your starting point or the start of your port skill that IS mobility it may not be the mobility you want but its how necro moves in a battle field. Scourge has good mobility if it builds for it. Truth be told mobility in gw2 is more of a L2P effect then any type of dmg effect / support effect hehe.

 

A real conversation is to not wave things away as a L2P thing its the worst way to talk about things and gets ppl no where.

 

Scourge has to many spam ability that hit 10 targets even with a .5 sec delay its impossible to deal with all of the F2-F5 skills and at the same time its too much support for the scourge it self and the players on the scourge side.

 

Its even worst when you have a group of more then one scourges you can no longer pin snip them you can no longer try to even land big bombs on them stunning spam dose not work vs them as they can use there f2-f5 when stunned there realy is no counter to them other then simply having more scourges.

 

Most wvw groups are nothing but scourges and the class is super boring to play its an op class and most ppl know it even the ppl who are playing the scorges know it but are unwilling to give up there new safely blanket being in the group of scorges or playing as a scorges. This would not be a problem in wvw if not every one was doing this but every one IS doing this and its making wvw into a blob mess and destroying any type of real fun in wvw setting (o look we bomb with our shades and they bomb with theirs good talk lets do it agent in 5 mins). No changes from fight to fight no real ganking even the old boon meta was not this boring with no one willing to push in even pirate ship meta was more fun then this no push scourge meta or bunker scourge meta.

 

Its comes down to this one ideal if you play scorges in a group you are promoting blob meta in wvw and the death to all other meatas. Its not important what you want or think but what your doing as a player is saying more to the game makers and other players what you want in a game. Scourge = blobs in wvw and will keep blobs in wvw a thing the only thing till the class is comply nerf for its aoe sizes and targets. If you do not play blobs in wvw but playing a scourge you are self defeating your own views by your action making you a hypocrite to others.

[Dralor.3701]

Necro has the worst mobility in the gw2 what game are you even playing?

 

Yes, scourge is a spammy garbage spec but again please be real. You keep repeating the same stuff and yes we can all agree the current WvW meta is not healthy.

 

Again not sure what sever you are playing on but we push through other blobs all day, clouding works.

 

 

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

> @"DeadlySynz.3471" said:

> > @"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

> > why do scourges, who benefit from trailblazer, have insanely high base hp, also get tons of barrier?

> >

> > If a class should not benefit from barriers at all, it would be scourges.

> >

> > Take away barrier and/or lower their hp - and the scourge problem would evaporate overnight.

> >

> > It is kind of ridiculous that a well placed power bomb takes out scores of revs and make firebrands go in panic heal mode while scourges don't even notice that something is going on.

>

> Probably because they have no mobility. The one skill people try to claim is mobility (sand swell), actually only gains about 200-300 units when used. If used side by side with someone running, due to cast time and how it lands; it's basically like a short teleport

>

> The scourge's main problem is their mobility, they are complete sitting ducks to ranged classes. It's the biggest mismatch in the game. A ranger can kill a scourge in less than 7 seconds even despite all the barrier and healing throw at it.

>

> That "well placed power bomb" can easily be eradicated with literally 1 ranger in the group. So the problem isn't the scourge itself, it's the players unwillingness to play classes to counter them that's the crux of the issue. So when you mention "scourges don't even notice something that's going on" tells me that the groups of you've been in either have little to no ranged classes or your squad leaders/commanders refuse to have players run them. Again, that is a player problem, not a scourge problem.

 

so that is why scourges run away from me all the time, despite swiftness, 2s of superspeed and lightning flash. Must be their low mobility.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

> @"X T D.6458" said:

> Barrier counters itself lol, it degens after a short delay and can be removed through damage. What more do you need?

 

if barrier a) negates crits and b) eats away 6000 dmg. It is broken.

 

Scourges are pretty much walking, invulnerable corrupt aoes. They are broken in every regard. You might down a scourge on occasion - among 40 scourges in the enemy blob there is always one or two who are new, dumb, have a moment or just a lag spike. But the rest?

 

Face it, scourge is broken. And every day anet does not fix it, is a horrible day for everybody else.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"SweetPotato.7456" said:

> If you want to neft scourge, you have to understand why people are "not happy" with the current state of Scourge. You are not unhappy with scourge, You are unhappy because players are zerging.

>

> If Scourge is neft, the scourge single roamers will be rendered unplayable.

 

I disagree 100%. I started playing WvW a few month back, mainly on my Ranger, and because I was unfamiliar with the gamemode, I just latched onto a zerg and follow them around, pew pew'ing where I could. I had a lot of fun and got to enjoy the WvW mode, and then something just shifted. All of a sudden, every enemy zerg was coming at us with scourge spam. I didn't know enough about GW2 at the time to understand what was going on, but after reading the forums a bit, etc, I began to understand.

 

My point is, I was having a blast running around with a zerg, and fighting against enemy zergs - the fun only stopped once the blobs came out.

[Dralor.3701]

> @"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

> > @"X T D.6458" said:

> > Barrier counters itself lol, it degens after a short delay and can be removed through damage. What more do you need?

>

> if barrier a) negates crits and b) eats away 6000 dmg. It is broken.

>

> Scourges are pretty much walking, invulnerable corrupt aoes. They are broken in every regard. You might down a scourge on occasion - among 40 scourges in the enemy blob there is always one or two who are new, dumb, have a moment or just a lag spike. But the rest?

>

> Face it, scourge is broken. And every day anet does not fix it, is a horrible day for everybody else.

 

Barrier doesn’t negate crits, the devs have posted on this subject and included screenshots of the logs.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

they negate crits because your nice bomb just got soaked up by the barrier. A barrier that is so high, that there is still some left over afterwards.

[Zero.3871]

> @"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

> they negate crits because your nice bomb just got soaked up by the barrier. A barrier that is so high, that there is still some left over afterwards.

 

what is with endure pain? signet of Stone? Obsidian flesh or mist form? elixir s? renewal Focus? or tonnes of dodges or blocks or Stealth no necro has Access to those stuff. every other class has. you are compleining About the only real defense scourges have while this defense is way less worth than every other defense in the game.

 

and if your "bomb" get negated by barrier, your Server should rework their Pub builds. just with my rev a i can easily spike with hammer 2,3 and 5 more than 20k dmg on 5 persons. no barrier is that high that can safe the enemies without getting dmg on real lifepoints...and rev hammer 2,3 have 4 and 8 sec cooldown while scourger barrier have 25 sec cd on heal and 30 sec on f5 and still 10 sec on f3. the Limit for barrier is half the lifepoints a character has. so mostly barrier max is between 8k -12k and you Need to use all barrier skills (f3,f5 and healskill) on scourge to get that 12k barrier.

[googel.3278]

gotta love these nerf necro topics, its like as if these fools want easy wins. complain more pls you wet noodle nubs.

[Jski.6180]

> @"Dralor.3701" said:

> Necro has the worst mobility in the gw2 what game are you even playing?

>

> Yes, scourge is a spammy garbage spec but again please be real. You keep repeating the same stuff and yes we can all agree the current WvW meta is not healthy.

>

> Again not sure what sever you are playing on but we push through other blobs all day, clouding works.

>

>

 

Because of scorge stacking that the very point i am trying to make scorge is both the problem and the fix in the current "unhealthy" meta. You play scorge to deal with scorge but then there more scorge causing more problems.

[LetoII.3782]

> @"Zero.3871" said:

 

> what is with endure pain? signet of Stone? Obsidian flesh or mist form? elixir s? renewal Focus? or tonnes of dodges or blocks or Stealth no necro has Access to those stuff. every other class has. you are compleining About the only real defense scourges have while this defense is way less worth than every other defense in the game.

None of the other class skills you mentioned are paired with a lake of instant doom to stand in.

Which is a pretty nifty defense all by itself

[Dralor.3701]

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> > @"Dralor.3701" said:

> > Necro has the worst mobility in the gw2 what game are you even playing?

> >

> > Yes, scourge is a spammy garbage spec but again please be real. You keep repeating the same stuff and yes we can all agree the current WvW meta is not healthy.

> >

> > Again not sure what sever you are playing on but we push through other blobs all day, clouding works.

> >

> >

>

> Because of scorge stacking that the very point i am trying to make scorge is both the problem and the fix in the current "unhealthy" meta. You play scorge to deal with scorge but then there more scorge causing more problems.

 

I mean.. I just play zerker soulbeast and kill them in one rapid fire if I feel frustrated with scourge. As I keep repeating obviously it is too good but there are still ways to adapt.

 

Complaining and not trying to adapt is not constructive and your own fault.

 

Making ridiculous claims about the class, also not constructive.

[Jski.6180]

> @"Dralor.3701" said:

> > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > @"Dralor.3701" said:

> > > Necro has the worst mobility in the gw2 what game are you even playing?

> > >

> > > Yes, scourge is a spammy garbage spec but again please be real. You keep repeating the same stuff and yes we can all agree the current WvW meta is not healthy.

> > >

> > > Again not sure what sever you are playing on but we push through other blobs all day, clouding works.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Because of scorge stacking that the very point i am trying to make scorge is both the problem and the fix in the current "unhealthy" meta. You play scorge to deal with scorge but then there more scorge causing more problems.

>

> I mean.. I just play zerker soulbeast and kill them in one rapid fire if I feel frustrated with scourge. As I keep repeating obviously it is too good but there are still ways to adapt.

>

> Complaining and not trying to adapt is not constructive and your own fault.

>

> Making ridiculous claims about the class, also not constructive.

 

One zerker soulbeast dose not kill a zerg of scourge. Your mixing up 1v1 counters something that this game is NOT balanced for vs blob metas where this game is a lot more balanced for.

 

Adapt is changing a class build and gear not changing classes all together. Even swaping to a new wepon set is adapting but simply changing class is NOT adapting that called giving up.

 

The fact that you think changing class is adapting as means of dealing with scorge show there something wrong with the scorge class as all classes should be able to counter all other classes its on an issues of builds and strategy.

[aceofbass.2163]

> @"Threather.9354" said:

> Condi scourge is fine because other classes are completely fine against it.

> - Chrono counters is with CC (focus pulled before fight? Rip 2 scourges and scourge stacking strats)

> - Firebrand counters it with resi fields/cleanse. Not a single good firebrand that will die in first 20 seconds, neither should their party members

> - Ele and rev counter it with range + dwarf elite.

these classes are always in a zerg fight for a reason.

> - Staff thief counters it with whatever staff 5 spam strats are going around

> - Holosmith counters it with AoE cleanse and CC

But these? these classes are the most countered by scourge that's why you will never see them in group fights.

 

[DeadlySynz.3471]

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> > @"Dralor.3701" said:

> > > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > > @"Dralor.3701" said:

> > > > Necro has the worst mobility in the gw2 what game are you even playing?

> > > >

> > > > Yes, scourge is a spammy garbage spec but again please be real. You keep repeating the same stuff and yes we can all agree the current WvW meta is not healthy.

> > > >

> > > > Again not sure what sever you are playing on but we push through other blobs all day, clouding works.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Because of scorge stacking that the very point i am trying to make scorge is both the problem and the fix in the current "unhealthy" meta. You play scorge to deal with scorge but then there more scorge causing more problems.

> >

> > I mean.. I just play zerker soulbeast and kill them in one rapid fire if I feel frustrated with scourge. As I keep repeating obviously it is too good but there are still ways to adapt.

> >

> > Complaining and not trying to adapt is not constructive and your own fault.

> >

> > Making ridiculous claims about the class, also not constructive.

>

> One zerker soulbeast dose not kill a zerg of scourge. Your mixing up 1v1 counters something that this game is NOT balanced for vs blob metas where this game is a lot more balanced for.

>

> Adapt is changing a class build and gear not changing classes all together. Even swaping to a new wepon set is adapting but simply changing class is NOT adapting that called giving up.

>

> The fact that you think changing class is adapting as means of dealing with scorge show there something wrong with the scorge class as all classes should be able to counter all other classes its on an issues of builds and strategy.

 

On the contrary, several times I've killed multiple scourge in the enemy zerg (which outnumbered us 2 to 1) resulting in the zerg turning tail and running. It's actually not that hard to do, but because many people just can't be bothered to jump on a ranger have no clue just how overpowered they are against Scourge. I imagine any other class that decides to play range and focus Scourge will come to the same conclusion; it's so mismatched you practically feel sorry for them killing them.

 

You know, I jumped on my warrior the other day, zerg clashing away, I run in dump my bubble, and of course I get blown up with conditions. Surprise Surprise, because there were no ranged around to take out the Scourge. I keep telling people, this and I'll keep telling them the more people complain about Scourge:

 

Get off your melee class and get on ranged. It doesn't matter whether or not you don't want to play range, do it anyway and stop complaining.

[Jski.6180]

> @"DeadlySynz.3471" said:

> > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > @"Dralor.3701" said:

> > > > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > > > @"Dralor.3701" said:

> > > > > Necro has the worst mobility in the gw2 what game are you even playing?

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes, scourge is a spammy garbage spec but again please be real. You keep repeating the same stuff and yes we can all agree the current WvW meta is not healthy.

> > > > >

> > > > > Again not sure what sever you are playing on but we push through other blobs all day, clouding works.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Because of scorge stacking that the very point i am trying to make scorge is both the problem and the fix in the current "unhealthy" meta. You play scorge to deal with scorge but then there more scorge causing more problems.

> > >

> > > I mean.. I just play zerker soulbeast and kill them in one rapid fire if I feel frustrated with scourge. As I keep repeating obviously it is too good but there are still ways to adapt.

> > >

> > > Complaining and not trying to adapt is not constructive and your own fault.

> > >

> > > Making ridiculous claims about the class, also not constructive.

> >

> > One zerker soulbeast dose not kill a zerg of scourge. Your mixing up 1v1 counters something that this game is NOT balanced for vs blob metas where this game is a lot more balanced for.

> >

> > Adapt is changing a class build and gear not changing classes all together. Even swaping to a new wepon set is adapting but simply changing class is NOT adapting that called giving up.

> >

> > The fact that you think changing class is adapting as means of dealing with scorge show there something wrong with the scorge class as all classes should be able to counter all other classes its on an issues of builds and strategy.

>

> On the contrary, several times I've killed multiple scourge in the enemy zerg (which outnumbered us 2 to 1) resulting in the zerg turning tail and running. It's actually not that hard to do, but because many people just can't be bothered to jump on a ranger have no clue just how overpowered they are against Scourge. I imagine any other class that decides to play range and focus Scourge will come to the same conclusion; it's so mismatched you practically feel sorry for them killing them.

>

> You know, I jumped on my warrior the other day, zerg clashing away, I run in dump my bubble, and of course I get blown up with conditions. Surprise Surprise, because there were no ranged around to take out the Scourge. I keep telling people, this and I'll keep telling them the more people complain about Scourge:

>

> Get off your melee class and get on ranged. It doesn't matter whether or not you don't want to play range, do it anyway and stop complaining.

 

Even if you feel that your contringing the scorges dose not mean you are with the class you maybe throwing them off grad in the moment but vs a real group they are going to have so much counter ranged that you will have no hope to land any real dmg. At the same time you MUST go to ranger to deal with a class and that should not be the way this game work or has been sold to work. Every class has a ranged wepon skill and they should be just as viable as other ranged classes to dealing with classes who are week to ranged. Classes should all have a chose to counter every other class and its only scorg where this IS falling apart.

 

There is something wrong with the scorge class and ppl know it who play it and ppl who play vs it. Every one in GW2 knows the truth but are unwilling to deal with it. Stop defning something that is bluntly wrong.

[Zero.3871]

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> **Classes should all have a chose to counter every other class and its only scorg where this IS falling apart.**

> There is something wrong with the scorge class and ppl know it who play it and ppl who play vs it. Every one in GW2 knows the truth but are unwilling to deal with it. Stop defning something that is bluntly wrong.

 

i dont know why you are so salty, but scourge is by far not the greatest Problem of pof. xD i absolutely agree scourge Need nerfs because its **snowball effect**, that is the true Problem with scourge, that it get stronger with greater number , is problematic. ez solution for example would be to reduce target number shades have to 3.

 

on the other Hand scourge is still a **necromancer**, so it **lacks **massively Sustain (this class has no blocks, invuls or invis), boons (expecially stability), mobility.

that are the weakpoints you can use to counter scourge. and EVERY class is faster than scourge, have more blocks, invuls etc. it is not only range that counter low mobility of scourge….

 

if you are not able to use that weak Points you should **adjust your build**, cause every class even melee classes can counter scourge. its ez to push a scourge even with a warrior and use Shield block when scourge is starting to bomb you. the bomb has a big WARNING before it Comes. so also the "instant" cast problematic People were complaining in the past isnt a Thing anymore.

 

so your Argument scourge hasnt enough counters is simply wrong, cause **you can stun, outrun, outrange them or simply block/dodge/be invul against all their shades**…

 

finally there are **many broken classes** in the game:

 

- **Mirage**: Condi burst, invis/invul uptime while 6 illusions/clones up, Unlimited mobility, unstunnable

- **Spellbreaker**: Full Counter + overall uptime for blocks/invuls/resistance too high, WoD simply is killing zergs and deciding more zergfights than any scourge.

- **Core Warri**: dmg Output (especially the boost from Peak Performance)

- **Druid**: Heal when playing for example full apothecary stats (simply unkillable in 1v1), i really see alot of them :#

- **Soulbeast**: dmg Output (6k dmg AA on 1800 Range longbow while unblockable when patswap is broken), and that 1800 range on LB bug (in General on ranger)

- **thief**: invis uptime, there is no counter against all that invis spam in this game and that annoying staff perma dodge build

- ...

 

and that are just my top picks. other People will absolutely have further builds they could list...

[Jski.6180]

> @"Zero.3871" said:

> > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > **Classes should all have a chose to counter every other class and its only scorg where this IS falling apart.**

> > There is something wrong with the scorge class and ppl know it who play it and ppl who play vs it. Every one in GW2 knows the truth but are unwilling to deal with it. Stop defning something that is bluntly wrong.

>

> i dont know why you are so salty, but scourge is by far not the greatest Problem of pof. xD i absolutely agree scourge Need nerfs because its **snowball effect**, that is the true Problem with scourge, that it get stronger with greater number , is problematic. ez solution for example would be to reduce target number shades have to 3.

>

> on the other Hand scourge is still a **necromancer**, so it **lacks **massively Sustain (this class has no blocks, invuls or invis), boons (expecially stability), mobility.

> that are the weakpoints you can use to counter scourge. and EVERY class is faster than scourge, have more blocks, invuls etc. it is not only range that counter low mobility of scourge….

>

> if you are not able to use that weak Points you should **adjust your build**, cause every class even melee classes can counter scourge. its ez to push a scourge even with a warrior and use Shield block when scourge is starting to bomb you. the bomb has a big WARNING before it Comes. so also the "instant" cast problematic People were complaining in the past isnt a Thing anymore.

>

> so your Argument scourge hasnt enough counters is simply wrong, cause **you can stun, outrun, outrange them or simply block/dodge/be invul against all their shades**…

>

> finally there are **many broken classes** in the game:

>

> - **Mirage**: Condi burst, invis/invul uptime while 6 illusions/clones up, Unlimited mobility, unstunnable

> - **Spellbreaker**: Full Counter + overall uptime for blocks/invuls/resistance too high, WoD simply is killing zergs and deciding more zergfights than any scourge.

> - **Core Warri**: dmg Output (especially the boost from Peak Performance)

> - **Druid**: Heal when playing for example full apothecary stats (simply unkillable in 1v1), i really see alot of them :#

> - **Soulbeast**: dmg Output (6k dmg AA on 1800 Range longbow while unblockable when patswap is broken), and that 1800 range on LB bug (in General on ranger)

> - **thief**: invis uptime, there is no counter against all that invis spam in this game and that annoying staff perma dodge build

> - ...

>

> and that are just my top picks. other People will absolutely have further builds they could list...

 

Speed is only as much as what you get from your group dont talk about scorge as solo because that not how wvw works nor is how gw2 is balanced. Necro is out side of scorge is lacking for sure but scorge should not be the only viable verson of necro. For what ever reason Anet made scorge the best boon strip cc support aoe dmg class in the game as well as being very tankly to boot. Reaper has the best power dmg but it must be in DS to use its best skills core necro the same way but for some reason scorge can use all of its effects all the time AND is still heal-able by the necro skills at all times and by other players. That is a big deal that scorge dose not have to deal with the same netives of DS like the other version of necro.

 

You talk as if scorge is not a problem but how often do you see ppl run reaper or core necro in wvw who also have pof in a group with support players?

 

There is something wrong with the scorge class on many levels so much so that its changed the very meta it IS the only meta in wvw.

 

Your fooling your self if you think a few leaps and a few blocks relay make up for what scorge can do as a class and that your comply forgetting the other necro classes in this game who must deal with the same lack ofs but also the lack of having to use DS.

 

This is not just a question of one class vs another this is a question of with in the same class. Anet should be ASHAMED of this and all necro players should be raging out of there minds over this.

[morrolan.9608]

> @"SweetPotato.7456" said:

> If you want to neft scourge, you have to understand why people are "not happy" with the current state of Scourge. You are not unhappy with scourge, You are unhappy because players are zerging.

>

> If Scourge is neft, the scourge single roamers will be rendered unplayable.

 

If that is the only option then let them be nerfed, other specs aren't great 1v1 why should scourge be different? Let necros run reaper if they want to roam.

[Zero.3871]

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> > @"Zero.3871" said:

> > > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > **Classes should all have a chose to counter every other class and its only scorg where this IS falling apart.**

> > > There is something wrong with the scorge class and ppl know it who play it and ppl who play vs it. Every one in GW2 knows the truth but are unwilling to deal with it. Stop defning something that is bluntly wrong.

> >

> > i dont know why you are so salty, but scourge is by far not the greatest Problem of pof. xD i absolutely agree scourge Need nerfs because its **snowball effect**, that is the true Problem with scourge, that it get stronger with greater number , is problematic. ez solution for example would be to reduce target number shades have to 3.

> >

> > on the other Hand scourge is still a **necromancer**, so it **lacks **massively Sustain (this class has no blocks, invuls or invis), boons (expecially stability), mobility.

> > that are the weakpoints you can use to counter scourge. and EVERY class is faster than scourge, have more blocks, invuls etc. it is not only range that counter low mobility of scourge….

> >

> > if you are not able to use that weak Points you should **adjust your build**, cause every class even melee classes can counter scourge. its ez to push a scourge even with a warrior and use Shield block when scourge is starting to bomb you. the bomb has a big WARNING before it Comes. so also the "instant" cast problematic People were complaining in the past isnt a Thing anymore.

> >

> > so your Argument scourge hasnt enough counters is simply wrong, cause **you can stun, outrun, outrange them or simply block/dodge/be invul against all their shades**…

> >

> > finally there are **many broken classes** in the game:

> >

> > - **Mirage**: Condi burst, invis/invul uptime while 6 illusions/clones up, Unlimited mobility, unstunnable

> > - **Spellbreaker**: Full Counter + overall uptime for blocks/invuls/resistance too high, WoD simply is killing zergs and deciding more zergfights than any scourge.

> > - **Core Warri**: dmg Output (especially the boost from Peak Performance)

> > - **Druid**: Heal when playing for example full apothecary stats (simply unkillable in 1v1), i really see alot of them :#

> > - **Soulbeast**: dmg Output (6k dmg AA on 1800 Range longbow while unblockable when patswap is broken), and that 1800 range on LB bug (in General on ranger)

> > - **thief**: invis uptime, there is no counter against all that invis spam in this game and that annoying staff perma dodge build

> > - ...

> >

> > and that are just my top picks. other People will absolutely have further builds they could list...

>

> Speed is only as much as what you get from your group dont talk about scorge as solo because that not how wvw works nor is how gw2 is balanced. Necro is out side of scorge is lacking for sure but scorge should not be the only viable verson of necro. For what ever reason Anet made scorge the best boon strip cc support aoe dmg class in the game as well as being very tankly to boot. Reaper has the best power dmg but it must be in DS to use its best skills core necro the same way but for some reason scorge can use all of its effects all the time AND is still heal-able by the necro skills at all times and by other players. That is a big deal that scorge dose not have to deal with the same netives of DS like the other version of necro.

>

> **You talk as if scorge is not a problem but how often do you see ppl run reaper or core necro in wvw who also have pof in a group with support players?**

>

> There is something wrong with the scorge class on many levels so much so that its changed the very meta it IS the only meta in wvw.

>

> Your fooling your self if you think a few leaps and a few blocks relay make up for what scorge can do as a class and that your comply forgetting the other necro classes in this game who must deal with the same lack ofs but also the lack of having to use DS.

>

> This is not just a question of one class vs another this is a question of with in the same class. Anet should be ASHAMED of this and all necro players should be raging out of there minds over this.

 

plz read my comment, i didnt say scourge isnt a Problem. but i said scourge Problem is not missing counter mechanics, because there are a lot of them. the real Problem is that scourges snowballs. all the effects that are stacking can hit up to 10 People. so even if 1 scourge is weak, 20 scourges are very strong because effects of scourges are stacking more and more. the Question is how to balance that, i also gave an example for that.

finally, scourge will ever be meta in zergfights due to the fact that scourge (and Spellbreaker) are boonsharemeta-counter. and that is intended. caus classes like firebrands and chronos, also revs, can apply an absurd number of boons to their Groups.