Abakk.9176 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 I've mentioned this before in other threads. Mount attack skill usage in low level maps is so out of whack that even ranged attacks come in too late when trying to get a shot in before an entire group is wiped by a storm of mounts dropping in. Result is that when im doing the event daily i don't even call it anymore. It's the best way to ensure a few kills before the entire pack drops in. It's a shame really. The only time i think it is appropriate is during the Awakened attacks. Those mobs seems to scale perfectly and seem to be able to take the mount damage a lot better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > I’m curious though as to why someone would object to a nerf to the dismount in low level zones. Do the objectors play in those zones so very often that it’s important to them or do they have trouble killing things and need the dismount skill? If they don’t play in those low maps frequently or don’t need the skill to kill then I’m not sure how it affects them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already explained in my first post why I want this to stay as it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > Perhaps it’s veterans who are speaking out because new players don’t realize that there is a forum (and f2p can’t post on the forums at all). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think anyone here has been voted as an ambasador for new players. Speak for yourself please. Veterans shouldn't use "new player" card as they are not new players anymore. New players who paid for the game can come here and complain if they really feel like it. As for F2P players... you know... I don't care. They play for free and for me they have no right to affect the game for those who paid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The issue that's presented here is not really an issue. Things like this happened before mounts as 80s are already strong enough to 1 shot low lvl mobs. Core Tyria is mostly empty outside of daily map event day. It's just one map, for one day. I think everyone can survive it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't remove a feature from players who like it. If you don't like it, don't use it. > > > > > > > > > > > > It appears you have forgotten that a core principle of this game is the downscaling of players to match the map level. > > > > > > > > > > It appears you are jumping to conclusions too quickly. I adressed downscaling and game itself proves to you that it's intended for max level, fully equipped characters to be significantly stronger than low-lvl/new characters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That has nothing to do with the argument that the dismount in low level maps is not scaling properly. > > > > > > > > > > How do you know this? Maybe it's intended. > > > > And maybe it’s not.... > > > > And that’s why we’re discussing it. Veterans are seeing a concern where low level players without mounts are having their fun affected in the only maps that they can play in and we are bringing it to ANet’s attention so they can look at it and adjust if necessary. If it turns out we are wrong then there will be no nerf and objectors can dismount in noob maps and kill mobs to their heart’s content. > > > > I’m not sure why someone would object, unless they play extensively in these zones and it would impact their playstyle. If they don’t play in the noob zones they’ll never encounter a dismount nerf and it won’t affect them. > > > > >Until I see a statement from devs declaring something a bug, I consider everything that is in game as intended mechanic, tested and released by devs consciously. > > > > Because bugs, etc have never been fixed/modified months later? > > Until it's declared as bug or fixed, there is no justification for you to say it's bugged or unintended. You are only a player. No we can’t say that it is, but we can bring up the possibility, say why we think it is and suggest a solution. That is, after all, the reason why ANet put the official forums in place and why they read the threads. They want to know our concerns and about any problems we feel is in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > I’m curious though as to why someone would object to a nerf to the dismount in low level zones. Do the objectors play in those zones so very often that it’s important to them or do they have trouble killing things and need the dismount skill? If they don’t play in those low maps frequently or don’t need the skill to kill then I’m not sure how it affects them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already explained in my first post why I want this to stay as it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > Perhaps it’s veterans who are speaking out because new players don’t realize that there is a forum (and f2p can’t post on the forums at all). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think anyone here has been voted as an ambasador for new players. Speak for yourself please. Veterans shouldn't use "new player" card as they are not new players anymore. New players who paid for the game can come here and complain if they really feel like it. As for F2P players... you know... I don't care. They play for free and for me they have no right to affect the game for those who paid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The issue that's presented here is not really an issue. Things like this happened before mounts as 80s are already strong enough to 1 shot low lvl mobs. Core Tyria is mostly empty outside of daily map event day. It's just one map, for one day. I think everyone can survive it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't remove a feature from players who like it. If you don't like it, don't use it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It appears you have forgotten that a core principle of this game is the downscaling of players to match the map level. > > > > > > > > > > > > It appears you are jumping to conclusions too quickly. I adressed downscaling and game itself proves to you that it's intended for max level, fully equipped characters to be significantly stronger than low-lvl/new characters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That has nothing to do with the argument that the dismount in low level maps is not scaling properly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you know this? Maybe it's intended. > > > > > > And maybe it’s not.... > > > > > > And that’s why we’re discussing it. Veterans are seeing a concern where low level players without mounts are having their fun affected in the only maps that they can play in and we are bringing it to ANet’s attention so they can look at it and adjust if necessary. If it turns out we are wrong then there will be no nerf and objectors can dismount in noob maps and kill mobs to their heart’s content. > > > > > > I’m not sure why someone would object, unless they play extensively in these zones and it would impact their playstyle. If they don’t play in the noob zones they’ll never encounter a dismount nerf and it won’t affect them. > > > > > > >Until I see a statement from devs declaring something a bug, I consider everything that is in game as intended mechanic, tested and released by devs consciously. > > > > > > Because bugs, etc have never been fixed/modified months later? > > > > Until it's declared as bug or fixed, there is no justification for you to say it's bugged or unintended. You are only a player. > > No we can’t say that it is, but we can bring up the possibility, say why we think it is and suggest a solution. That is, after all, the reason why ANet put the official forums in place and why they read the threads. They want to know our concerns and about any problems we feel is in the game. > > > > That's the level of assumption I'm not going into. Let's stay on the level of facts, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > I’m curious though as to why someone would object to a nerf to the dismount in low level zones. Do the objectors play in those zones so very often that it’s important to them or do they have trouble killing things and need the dismount skill? If they don’t play in those low maps frequently or don’t need the skill to kill then I’m not sure how it affects them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already explained in my first post why I want this to stay as it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps it’s veterans who are speaking out because new players don’t realize that there is a forum (and f2p can’t post on the forums at all). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think anyone here has been voted as an ambasador for new players. Speak for yourself please. Veterans shouldn't use "new player" card as they are not new players anymore. New players who paid for the game can come here and complain if they really feel like it. As for F2P players... you know... I don't care. They play for free and for me they have no right to affect the game for those who paid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The issue that's presented here is not really an issue. Things like this happened before mounts as 80s are already strong enough to 1 shot low lvl mobs. Core Tyria is mostly empty outside of daily map event day. It's just one map, for one day. I think everyone can survive it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't remove a feature from players who like it. If you don't like it, don't use it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It appears you have forgotten that a core principle of this game is the downscaling of players to match the map level. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It appears you are jumping to conclusions too quickly. I adressed downscaling and game itself proves to you that it's intended for max level, fully equipped characters to be significantly stronger than low-lvl/new characters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That has nothing to do with the argument that the dismount in low level maps is not scaling properly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you know this? Maybe it's intended. > > > > > > > > And maybe it’s not.... > > > > > > > > And that’s why we’re discussing it. Veterans are seeing a concern where low level players without mounts are having their fun affected in the only maps that they can play in and we are bringing it to ANet’s attention so they can look at it and adjust if necessary. If it turns out we are wrong then there will be no nerf and objectors can dismount in noob maps and kill mobs to their heart’s content. > > > > > > > > I’m not sure why someone would object, unless they play extensively in these zones and it would impact their playstyle. If they don’t play in the noob zones they’ll never encounter a dismount nerf and it won’t affect them. > > > > > > > > >Until I see a statement from devs declaring something a bug, I consider everything that is in game as intended mechanic, tested and released by devs consciously. > > > > > > > > Because bugs, etc have never been fixed/modified months later? > > > > > > Until it's declared as bug or fixed, there is no justification for you to say it's bugged or unintended. You are only a player. > > > > No we can’t say that it is, but we can bring up the possibility, say why we think it is and suggest a solution. That is, after all, the reason why ANet put the official forums in place and why they read the threads. They want to know our concerns and about any problems we feel is in the game. > > > > > > > > > > That's the level of assumption I'm not going into. Let's stay on the level of facts, thank you. Here’s some facts. ANet, which is a business, is paying Moderators salaries, Gaile’s wages, forum support personal, the upkeep on the forum as well as the paying for use of the Vanilla forum setup. I do believe we can say that they aren’t spending this money for grins and giggles but for business reasons, which is input from their customers about their product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas.4861 Posted May 14, 2018 Author Share Posted May 14, 2018 Its not a scale problem, it is a problem. The mounts allow players to quickly get to the mob and just blast them out. It was in Queensdale at the Bandits attacking the ranch event when this problem really came to light for me. Three raptors were killing all the mobs of Bandits as they spawned and no one could get a shot in before they were all dead. I was leveling up a new character and helping our newest Guildy learn the game. He was quite surprised at how the mount were being used. Yes, I am a Veteran player from GW1 to GW2 Beta, have all the mounts (except Griffin).. but find their offensive skills totally unnecessary in areas below 80. Running through a map to do completion is ok (to me). That is the only thing they should be used for in lower levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goettel.4389 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 Couldn't agree more, there's always some who don't care others can't tag or who are so self-absorbed it doesn't even occur to them not to use the mount. At the very least it needs to be scaled to level, but I wouldn't mind disabling mount skills in all content below level 80. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashantara.8731 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 > @"Texas.4861" said: > While working on a new character in Queensdale and helping a new player , we were trying to do as many events as possible, I was dismayed and annoyed that the other lower ranked players and myself were overwhelmed in events by players using the mounts offensive skills to wipe out entire mobs. And here is what I have been suggesting since the release of PoF, but apparently no one cared to respond to my idea: **Remove the PoF mounts from Central Tyrian maps** (including cities) **and introduce a HORSE as a Central Tyrian mastery track** (Central Tyria --> Pact Commander --> Track 6: Advanced Traveler, 12-15 Mastery Points). **This mount doesn't have any special attack skills, it's only ability is an increased movement speed.** Problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > I’m curious though as to why someone would object to a nerf to the dismount in low level zones. Do the objectors play in those zones so very often that it’s important to them or do they have trouble killing things and need the dismount skill? If they don’t play in those low maps frequently or don’t need the skill to kill then I’m not sure how it affects them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already explained in my first post why I want this to stay as it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps it’s veterans who are speaking out because new players don’t realize that there is a forum (and f2p can’t post on the forums at all). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think anyone here has been voted as an ambasador for new players. Speak for yourself please. Veterans shouldn't use "new player" card as they are not new players anymore. New players who paid for the game can come here and complain if they really feel like it. As for F2P players... you know... I don't care. They play for free and for me they have no right to affect the game for those who paid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The issue that's presented here is not really an issue. Things like this happened before mounts as 80s are already strong enough to 1 shot low lvl mobs. Core Tyria is mostly empty outside of daily map event day. It's just one map, for one day. I think everyone can survive it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't remove a feature from players who like it. If you don't like it, don't use it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It appears you have forgotten that a core principle of this game is the downscaling of players to match the map level. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It appears you are jumping to conclusions too quickly. I adressed downscaling and game itself proves to you that it's intended for max level, fully equipped characters to be significantly stronger than low-lvl/new characters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That has nothing to do with the argument that the dismount in low level maps is not scaling properly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you know this? Maybe it's intended. > > > > > > > > > > And maybe it’s not.... > > > > > > > > > > And that’s why we’re discussing it. Veterans are seeing a concern where low level players without mounts are having their fun affected in the only maps that they can play in and we are bringing it to ANet’s attention so they can look at it and adjust if necessary. If it turns out we are wrong then there will be no nerf and objectors can dismount in noob maps and kill mobs to their heart’s content. > > > > > > > > > > I’m not sure why someone would object, unless they play extensively in these zones and it would impact their playstyle. If they don’t play in the noob zones they’ll never encounter a dismount nerf and it won’t affect them. > > > > > > > > > > >Until I see a statement from devs declaring something a bug, I consider everything that is in game as intended mechanic, tested and released by devs consciously. > > > > > > > > > > Because bugs, etc have never been fixed/modified months later? > > > > > > > > Until it's declared as bug or fixed, there is no justification for you to say it's bugged or unintended. You are only a player. > > > > > > No we can’t say that it is, but we can bring up the possibility, say why we think it is and suggest a solution. That is, after all, the reason why ANet put the official forums in place and why they read the threads. They want to know our concerns and about any problems we feel is in the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's the level of assumption I'm not going into. Let's stay on the level of facts, thank you. > > Here’s some facts. ANet, which is a business, is paying Moderators salaries, Gaile’s wages, forum support personal, the upkeep on the forum as well as the paying for use of the Vanilla forum setup. I do believe we can say that they aren’t spending this money for grins and giggles but for business reasons, which is input from their customers about their product. You are allowed to say you don't like mounts skill current power, but you, as a player, have no authority to declare it a bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Koopa.2354 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 Again the horse suggestion? Didn't we discuss it to death already and ate its meat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael.8562 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 > @"Danikat.8537" said: > It's an issue for me. > > Yes I'm a "veteran" player - I have 5 level 80 characters. But I also spend a lot of my time playing on low level characters in the starter maps and crazy as it might sound to some people I enjoy actually playing them not simply levelling up as "efficiently" as possible. Which means I want to be able to complete events as and when I come across them with the skills and weapons I've unlocked so far. > > It's extremely annoying when I'm trying to do an event which involves tagging mobs and every time one spawns a high level character on a raptor rushes in, pulls them all in and kills them in a single hit. The first part on it's own wouldn't be too much of a problem - if they were simply pulling the mobs and damaging them it would be ok. The problem is that on low level maps even the weaker mount attacks like the griffons swoop can kill enemies in one hit, the raptor can easily wipe out entire groups instantly. > > I find it very hard to believe that scaling the damage those skills do to be in line with weapon and utility skills would have a negative impact on anyone. If you're unable to kill enemies on a low level map without a seriously over-powered attack then I can understand why you'd want to hang around starter areas farming the easiest events in the game, but encouraging that sort of game play is not going to help anyone, including the people doing it. Realistically though I think it would have almost no impact on the people doing this if they had to follow up that initial hit with a few of their own skills - or let the other players around them finish off the mobs if it's really too much trouble. And it would enable everyone else to participate in the event as well. ^ This! Very well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarshallLaw.9260 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 > @"Ashantara.8731" said: > > @"Texas.4861" said: > > While working on a new character in Queensdale and helping a new player , we were trying to do as many events as possible, I was dismayed and annoyed that the other lower ranked players and myself were overwhelmed in events by players using the mounts offensive skills to wipe out entire mobs. > > And here is what I have been suggesting since the release of PoF, but apparently no one cared to respond to my idea: > > **Remove the PoF mounts from Central Tyrian maps** (including cities) **and introduce a HORSE as a Central Tyrian mastery track** (Central Tyria --> Pact Commander --> Track 6: Advanced Traveler, 12-15 Mastery Points). **This mount doesn't have any special attack skills, it's only ability is an increased movement speed.** > > Problem solved. Gliding, which came from HoT has remained available throughout all of Tyria and has not been a problem., even though it's an advantage. Yes, I agree mounts have the potential to have more impact due to the dismount skills dealing damage but the extent to which it really effects other players has been blown _way_ out of proportion. > @"Texas.4861" > I was **dismayed** and **annoyed** that the other lower ranked players and myself were **overwhelmed** in events by players... Just sounds so dramatic, so mortifying; "The Nightmare of Queensdale" - other players on MOUNTS *insert dramatic music*. Let's get real, scaling isn't 100% effective. A level80 player, with top tier gear, will never be scaled down to deal the same damage as a low level player with average gear. Mounts are loosely in the same category. (personally) I wouldn't care or probably even notice if they halved the engage damage on lvl10-40 maps, but I just believe that there is so little need to do this, there are so few people affected by it, that it's not worth implementing. On the other hand, why shouldn't higher level players use what they have _earned_ to their advantage? I think if devs reduce the damage too much, there will be a backlash from the community. If they removed mounts from Core and replaced them with the above suggested donkey/horse/etc there would definitely be a decent amount of negative feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerioth.7062 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 Whether it is a bug or not, it should be scaled down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo Chocolate.5870 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > I’m curious though as to why someone would object to a nerf to the dismount in low level zones. Do the objectors play in those zones so very often that it’s important to them or do they have trouble killing things and need the dismount skill? If they don’t play in those low maps frequently or don’t need the skill to kill then I’m not sure how it affects them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already explained in my first post why I want this to stay as it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps it’s veterans who are speaking out because new players don’t realize that there is a forum (and f2p can’t post on the forums at all). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think anyone here has been voted as an ambasador for new players. Speak for yourself please. Veterans shouldn't use "new player" card as they are not new players anymore. New players who paid for the game can come here and complain if they really feel like it. As for F2P players... you know... I don't care. They play for free and for me they have no right to affect the game for those who paid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The issue that's presented here is not really an issue. Things like this happened before mounts as 80s are already strong enough to 1 shot low lvl mobs. Core Tyria is mostly empty outside of daily map event day. It's just one map, for one day. I think everyone can survive it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't remove a feature from players who like it. If you don't like it, don't use it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It appears you have forgotten that a core principle of this game is the downscaling of players to match the map level. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It appears you are jumping to conclusions too quickly. I adressed downscaling and game itself proves to you that it's intended for max level, fully equipped characters to be significantly stronger than low-lvl/new characters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That has nothing to do with the argument that the dismount in low level maps is not scaling properly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you know this? Maybe it's intended. > > > > > > > > > > > > And maybe it’s not.... > > > > > > > > > > > > And that’s why we’re discussing it. Veterans are seeing a concern where low level players without mounts are having their fun affected in the only maps that they can play in and we are bringing it to ANet’s attention so they can look at it and adjust if necessary. If it turns out we are wrong then there will be no nerf and objectors can dismount in noob maps and kill mobs to their heart’s content. > > > > > > > > > > > > I’m not sure why someone would object, unless they play extensively in these zones and it would impact their playstyle. If they don’t play in the noob zones they’ll never encounter a dismount nerf and it won’t affect them. > > > > > > > > > > > > >Until I see a statement from devs declaring something a bug, I consider everything that is in game as intended mechanic, tested and released by devs consciously. > > > > > > > > > > > > Because bugs, etc have never been fixed/modified months later? > > > > > > > > > > Until it's declared as bug or fixed, there is no justification for you to say it's bugged or unintended. You are only a player. > > > > > > > > No we can’t say that it is, but we can bring up the possibility, say why we think it is and suggest a solution. That is, after all, the reason why ANet put the official forums in place and why they read the threads. They want to know our concerns and about any problems we feel is in the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's the level of assumption I'm not going into. Let's stay on the level of facts, thank you. > > > > Here’s some facts. ANet, which is a business, is paying Moderators salaries, Gaile’s wages, forum support personal, the upkeep on the forum as well as the paying for use of the Vanilla forum setup. I do believe we can say that they aren’t spending this money for grins and giggles but for business reasons, which is input from their customers about their product. > > You are allowed to say you don't like mounts skill current power, but you, as a player, have no authority to declare it a bug. Sometimes when I mount up, my mount doesn't appear on screen and my character looks like they're stuck in the ground for a couple of seconds. I've never seen an official acknowledgement that that's a bug (admittedly I've never looked for one). Should I assume it's intended functionality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenom.9457 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 They seem to not scale as much as player skills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 > @"Tommo Chocolate.5870" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I’m curious though as to why someone would object to a nerf to the dismount in low level zones. Do the objectors play in those zones so very often that it’s important to them or do they have trouble killing things and need the dismount skill? If they don’t play in those low maps frequently or don’t need the skill to kill then I’m not sure how it affects them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already explained in my first post why I want this to stay as it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps it’s veterans who are speaking out because new players don’t realize that there is a forum (and f2p can’t post on the forums at all). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think anyone here has been voted as an ambasador for new players. Speak for yourself please. Veterans shouldn't use "new player" card as they are not new players anymore. New players who paid for the game can come here and complain if they really feel like it. As for F2P players... you know... I don't care. They play for free and for me they have no right to affect the game for those who paid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The issue that's presented here is not really an issue. Things like this happened before mounts as 80s are already strong enough to 1 shot low lvl mobs. Core Tyria is mostly empty outside of daily map event day. It's just one map, for one day. I think everyone can survive it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't remove a feature from players who like it. If you don't like it, don't use it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It appears you have forgotten that a core principle of this game is the downscaling of players to match the map level. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It appears you are jumping to conclusions too quickly. I adressed downscaling and game itself proves to you that it's intended for max level, fully equipped characters to be significantly stronger than low-lvl/new characters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That has nothing to do with the argument that the dismount in low level maps is not scaling properly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you know this? Maybe it's intended. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And maybe it’s not.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that’s why we’re discussing it. Veterans are seeing a concern where low level players without mounts are having their fun affected in the only maps that they can play in and we are bringing it to ANet’s attention so they can look at it and adjust if necessary. If it turns out we are wrong then there will be no nerf and objectors can dismount in noob maps and kill mobs to their heart’s content. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I’m not sure why someone would object, unless they play extensively in these zones and it would impact their playstyle. If they don’t play in the noob zones they’ll never encounter a dismount nerf and it won’t affect them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Until I see a statement from devs declaring something a bug, I consider everything that is in game as intended mechanic, tested and released by devs consciously. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because bugs, etc have never been fixed/modified months later? > > > > > > > > > > > > Until it's declared as bug or fixed, there is no justification for you to say it's bugged or unintended. You are only a player. > > > > > > > > > > No we can’t say that it is, but we can bring up the possibility, say why we think it is and suggest a solution. That is, after all, the reason why ANet put the official forums in place and why they read the threads. They want to know our concerns and about any problems we feel is in the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's the level of assumption I'm not going into. Let's stay on the level of facts, thank you. > > > > > > Here’s some facts. ANet, which is a business, is paying Moderators salaries, Gaile’s wages, forum support personal, the upkeep on the forum as well as the paying for use of the Vanilla forum setup. I do believe we can say that they aren’t spending this money for grins and giggles but for business reasons, which is input from their customers about their product. > > > > You are allowed to say you don't like mounts skill current power, but you, as a player, have no authority to declare it a bug. > > Sometimes when I mount up, my mount doesn't appear on screen and my character looks like they're stuck in the ground for a couple of seconds. I've never seen an official acknowledgement that that's a bug (admittedly I've never looked for one). Should I assume it's intended functionality? It's not a bug. It's the same as players loading as grey placeholders only to change later into fully skinned fashion monstrosities. Game uses basic model placeholders so you can load into map faster while textures are being replaced later in the process. As long as something is in game, doesn't contradict with in-game description and isn't stated by devs to be a bug, assume it's intended. People assumed tarir multiloot not being an exploit for 2 years based on this :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > I’m curious though as to why someone would object to a nerf to the dismount in low level zones. Do the objectors play in those zones so very often that it’s important to them or do they have trouble killing things and need the dismount skill? If they don’t play in those low maps frequently or don’t need the skill to kill then I’m not sure how it affects them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already explained in my first post why I want this to stay as it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps it’s veterans who are speaking out because new players don’t realize that there is a forum (and f2p can’t post on the forums at all). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think anyone here has been voted as an ambasador for new players. Speak for yourself please. Veterans shouldn't use "new player" card as they are not new players anymore. New players who paid for the game can come here and complain if they really feel like it. As for F2P players... you know... I don't care. They play for free and for me they have no right to affect the game for those who paid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The issue that's presented here is not really an issue. Things like this happened before mounts as 80s are already strong enough to 1 shot low lvl mobs. Core Tyria is mostly empty outside of daily map event day. It's just one map, for one day. I think everyone can survive it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't remove a feature from players who like it. If you don't like it, don't use it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It appears you have forgotten that a core principle of this game is the downscaling of players to match the map level. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It appears you are jumping to conclusions too quickly. I adressed downscaling and game itself proves to you that it's intended for max level, fully equipped characters to be significantly stronger than low-lvl/new characters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That has nothing to do with the argument that the dismount in low level maps is not scaling properly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you know this? Maybe it's intended. > > > > > > > > > > > > And maybe it’s not.... > > > > > > > > > > > > And that’s why we’re discussing it. Veterans are seeing a concern where low level players without mounts are having their fun affected in the only maps that they can play in and we are bringing it to ANet’s attention so they can look at it and adjust if necessary. If it turns out we are wrong then there will be no nerf and objectors can dismount in noob maps and kill mobs to their heart’s content. > > > > > > > > > > > > I’m not sure why someone would object, unless they play extensively in these zones and it would impact their playstyle. If they don’t play in the noob zones they’ll never encounter a dismount nerf and it won’t affect them. > > > > > > > > > > > > >Until I see a statement from devs declaring something a bug, I consider everything that is in game as intended mechanic, tested and released by devs consciously. > > > > > > > > > > > > Because bugs, etc have never been fixed/modified months later? > > > > > > > > > > Until it's declared as bug or fixed, there is no justification for you to say it's bugged or unintended. You are only a player. > > > > > > > > No we can’t say that it is, but we can bring up the possibility, say why we think it is and suggest a solution. That is, after all, the reason why ANet put the official forums in place and why they read the threads. They want to know our concerns and about any problems we feel is in the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's the level of assumption I'm not going into. Let's stay on the level of facts, thank you. > > > > Here’s some facts. ANet, which is a business, is paying Moderators salaries, Gaile’s wages, forum support personal, the upkeep on the forum as well as the paying for use of the Vanilla forum setup. I do believe we can say that they aren’t spending this money for grins and giggles but for business reasons, which is input from their customers about their product. > > You are allowed to say you don't like mounts skill current power, but you, as a player, have no authority to declare it a bug. We can report possible bugs and we can report things which may not be bugs but which we see are causing problems. Which is what this thread is about. >As long as something is in game, doesn't contradict with in-game description and isn't stated by devs to be a bug, assume it's intended. People assumed tarir multiloot not being an exploit for 2 years based on this :) So when ANet fixed it that means they agreeed it was a problem &/or exploit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eme.2018 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 > @"Imperadordf.2687" said: > The problem is it harms the low-level players and new players. The scaling needs to be adjusted. I have mounts but I just don't use their skills while doing events. It sucks the fun out of the game for new players really. It doesn't harm anyone; high level players can "wipe out entire mobs" with or without mounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > We can report possible bugs and we can report things which may not be bugs but which we see are causing problems. Which is what this thread is about. Yes you can, but it's not for you to declare if it's actually a bug or not. This thread is suggesting to nerf mount skills power. > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > So when ANet fixed it that means they agreeed it was a problem &/or exploit. Yes, they said it was exploit and fixed it. But before they did it, players were farming it for 2 years with justified assumption it's intended mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specialka.7290 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 > @"Eme.2018" said: > > @"Imperadordf.2687" said: > > The problem is it harms the low-level players and new players. The scaling needs to be adjusted. I have mounts but I just don't use their skills while doing events. It sucks the fun out of the game for new players really. > > It doesn't harm anyone; high level players can "wipe out entire mobs" with or without mounts. > > In that case, low lvl players can't tag mobs fast enough before mounted players kill them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > We can report possible bugs and we can report things which may not be bugs but which we see are causing problems. Which is what this thread is about. > > Yes you can, but it's not for you to declare if it's actually a bug or not. This thread is suggesting to nerf mount skills power. > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > So when ANet fixed it that means they agreeed it was a problem &/or exploit. > > Yes, they said it was exploit and fixed it. But before they did it, players were farming it for 2 years with justified assumption it's intended mechanic. It’s irrelevant if some players thought it was intended and wasn’t. It wasn’t intended, was reported by players as a bug or exploit and eventually was fixed. The fact that players were reporting it as a bug and it was eventually fixed shows that players do have authority to report something as a bug and that things can go on for some time and not be intended by the Devs. This example doesn’t help your case as it has parallels to this thread, where a feature is being reported as a bug, is running without comment from ANet and that some players think is intentional. Edit: I want to thank you for bringing this example to the thread. It’s not every day we see someone bring up an in game example that destroys their own argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodle Ant.1605 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 Currently, I don’t think it’s actually a bug. The engage skills do 3.4k tootltip dmg (with engage dmg mastery) at lvl 80, which most regular weapon skills fail to achieve. In low level areas, the higher dmg weapon skills on certain classes (1.5-2k at lvl 80) can already one shot or severely damage mobs meaning that the engage skill is bound to do even more dmg. Whether this is an exploit or not, practically speaking, at lvl 80, the engage accounts for way less than 50% dmg against a trash mob; the engage is mostly used for the cc. The question now is whether we want to keep this consistent across all levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo Chocolate.5870 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Tommo Chocolate.5870" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I’m curious though as to why someone would object to a nerf to the dismount in low level zones. Do the objectors play in those zones so very often that it’s important to them or do they have trouble killing things and need the dismount skill? If they don’t play in those low maps frequently or don’t need the skill to kill then I’m not sure how it affects them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I already explained in my first post why I want this to stay as it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps it’s veterans who are speaking out because new players don’t realize that there is a forum (and f2p can’t post on the forums at all). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think anyone here has been voted as an ambasador for new players. Speak for yourself please. Veterans shouldn't use "new player" card as they are not new players anymore. New players who paid for the game can come here and complain if they really feel like it. As for F2P players... you know... I don't care. They play for free and for me they have no right to affect the game for those who paid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The issue that's presented here is not really an issue. Things like this happened before mounts as 80s are already strong enough to 1 shot low lvl mobs. Core Tyria is mostly empty outside of daily map event day. It's just one map, for one day. I think everyone can survive it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't remove a feature from players who like it. If you don't like it, don't use it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It appears you have forgotten that a core principle of this game is the downscaling of players to match the map level. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It appears you are jumping to conclusions too quickly. I adressed downscaling and game itself proves to you that it's intended for max level, fully equipped characters to be significantly stronger than low-lvl/new characters. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That has nothing to do with the argument that the dismount in low level maps is not scaling properly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you know this? Maybe it's intended. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And maybe it’s not.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that’s why we’re discussing it. Veterans are seeing a concern where low level players without mounts are having their fun affected in the only maps that they can play in and we are bringing it to ANet’s attention so they can look at it and adjust if necessary. If it turns out we are wrong then there will be no nerf and objectors can dismount in noob maps and kill mobs to their heart’s content. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I’m not sure why someone would object, unless they play extensively in these zones and it would impact their playstyle. If they don’t play in the noob zones they’ll never encounter a dismount nerf and it won’t affect them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Until I see a statement from devs declaring something a bug, I consider everything that is in game as intended mechanic, tested and released by devs consciously. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because bugs, etc have never been fixed/modified months later? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Until it's declared as bug or fixed, there is no justification for you to say it's bugged or unintended. You are only a player. > > > > > > > > > > > > No we can’t say that it is, but we can bring up the possibility, say why we think it is and suggest a solution. That is, after all, the reason why ANet put the official forums in place and why they read the threads. They want to know our concerns and about any problems we feel is in the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's the level of assumption I'm not going into. Let's stay on the level of facts, thank you. > > > > > > > > Here’s some facts. ANet, which is a business, is paying Moderators salaries, Gaile’s wages, forum support personal, the upkeep on the forum as well as the paying for use of the Vanilla forum setup. I do believe we can say that they aren’t spending this money for grins and giggles but for business reasons, which is input from their customers about their product. > > > > > > You are allowed to say you don't like mounts skill current power, but you, as a player, have no authority to declare it a bug. > > > > Sometimes when I mount up, my mount doesn't appear on screen and my character looks like they're stuck in the ground for a couple of seconds. I've never seen an official acknowledgement that that's a bug (admittedly I've never looked for one). Should I assume it's intended functionality? > > It's not a bug. It's the same as players loading as grey placeholders only to change later into fully skinned fashion monstrosities. Game uses basic model placeholders so you can load into map faster while textures are being replaced later in the process. You missed my point - having dev confirmation isn't the only valid reason to think something is a bug. In fact, the whole bug report feature depends on players identifying things that are likely to be bugs. You were claiming that players should consider everything to be intended functionality until given an official statement saying otherwise, which would suggest that they should only ever report bugs that the devs already know about and have commented on. By the way, I'm pretty sure the mount display thing is a bug. It's not just not loading the mount, or loading a placeholder model - it's loading the correct mounted player character model (at the wrong height) and causing the camera to freeze for a couple of seconds. But even if it isn't a bug, that's irrelevant - the point is that it would be reasonable for me to think it is a bug, even though I don't have an official statement saying so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 I'd like to see Dismount skills scaled down more, both in power and in abilities. Currently, if I time it just so in L1-15 areas, I can (a) kill any clump of mobs in a single dismount, (b) remount nearly instantly (since I never get put into direct combat), and therefore © rinse repeat. No other player has any opportunity to participate. As long as one person chooses to use this level of AoE damage, no one else can share in the cooperative aspects of the game. That's especially bad for the L1-15 zones, for new players, for veterans leveling new toons, for returning players, and many others. It's only good for the first 1-2 players who dismount. My personal preference is cap the abilities & damage depending on area, something like... * For mid-tier areas, add a damage cap (scaled to local veteran mob health). * For lesser areas, convert the knockdown aoe to single target and/or to a stun, and then remove it altogether for starter zones. * For starter zones, change the AoE to single target damage. (Dismounting would remain powerful while allowing others to join in the fun.) tl;dr I don't care if this is a bug or not, it makes the game less fun for too large a fraction of players by removing opportunities for cooperative gameplay. (I prefer scaling down of both damage & abilities, but I'm okay with nearly easily-achieved proposal to even things up.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorudo.9054 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 > @"Eme.2018" said: > > @"Imperadordf.2687" said: > > The problem is it harms the low-level players and new players. The scaling needs to be adjusted. I have mounts but I just don't use their skills while doing events. It sucks the fun out of the game for new players really. > > It doesn't harm anyone; high level players can "wipe out entire mobs" with or without mounts. > > and low levels can do the same with just a mount, not just high levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eme.2018 Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 @"Specialka.7290" said: > In that case, low lvl players can't tag mobs fast enough before mounted players kill them. The source of the problem itself (if we assume that such problem exists) are not the mounts though. > @"sorudo.9054" said: > and low levels can do the same with just a mount, not just high levels. But this is not supposed to be a problem of low levels, it is supposed to be a problem of the newer players. I mentioned high level players not high level characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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