DREAD.... What is this garb?

[Obtena.7952]

Seems to me like the trait is there for people that know their burst capability and how to use it. If that's not a power PVP thing, I don't know what is. That seems the most appropriate in the Spite line to me. Considering that every build has access to fear while the other two traits are situational, I would say it's rather well suited where it is. How the OP figures it's for condi necros, I'm not sure.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Seems to me like the trait is there for people that know their burst capability and how to use it. If that's not a power PVP thing, I don't know what is. That seems the most appropriate in the Spite line to me. Considering that every build has access to fear while the other two traits are situational, I would say it's rather well suited where it is. How the OP figures it's for condi necros, I'm not sure.

 

 

As mentioned above. Necro has only very poor access to fear.

It's like 4 skills. Or you take the trait which will be 5 then but you will be loosing too much survivability or dmg.

 

And even if some people think, that 4 possibilities to apply fear is good, you only have

 

ONE scenario, where you can put up decent pressure from this:

Go reaper shroud use 3+4.

 

What also can work but is very though to pull off sometimes is: fear, weapon swap, axe 2.

 

 

On scourge this trait is completely useless. Fearing people out of your dmging aes seems pretty stupid.

 

 

Sure getting those 10 vulnerability is nice. But the trait overall could be so much better.

Compared to the other two traits here it's pretty much useless.

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > Seems to me like the trait is there for people that know their burst capability and how to use it. If that's not a power PVP thing, I don't know what is. That seems the most appropriate in the Spite line to me. Considering that every build has access to fear while the other two traits are situational, I would say it's rather well suited where it is. How the OP figures it's for condi necros, I'm not sure.

>

>

> As mentioned above. Necro has only very poor access to fear.

 

Its still exactly as Obtena says its for people who know how to maximize their burst especially on hybrid builds.

 

> It's like 4 skills. Or you take the trait which will be 5 then but you will be loosing too much survivability or dmg.

>

Its better with core. Reaper is too poor at life force generation vs management

 

> And even if some people think, that 4 possibilities to apply fear is good, you only have

 

Doom and staff 5 will always be your best go to bets. In a pinch against high evade professions like thief and rev spectral wall can actually be really really good too.

 

>

> ONE scenario, where you can put up decent pressure from this:

> Go reaper shroud use 3+4.

 

Its better with core to be down right honest with you

If you are going to use this for reaper using it for the vuln application not the bonus fear damage. You would actually come out better popping your shroud then and then just auto attacking your target if you want to make the most of it with reapers (assuming you are in range.)

 

>

> What also can work but is very though to pull off sometimes is: fear, weapon swap, axe 2.

 

This can very easily be done with core grieving or vipers stats as your target will be under a much longer fear and doom has a longer fear duration than reaper shroud 3.

 

>

>

> On scourge this trait is completely useless. Fearing people out of your dmging aes seems pretty stupid.

>

 

On hybrid scourge this trait is actually good but with scourge being more difficult to play (if you actually want to make the most out of this trait) pulling off fear into anything without what seems like mindless spamming is all but impossible

As noted you are likely better off using this for the vuln application. its instant 10 stacks which is no joke. The only other skills that do this that come to mind off the top of my head is the warrior shout "on my mark"

 

>

> Sure getting those 10 vulnerability is nice. But the trait overall could be so much better.

> Compared to the other two traits here it's pretty much useless.

 

The best anet could ever do is make it function similar to peek performance granting you a damage bonus effect for a few seconds after you actually use a fear skill.

 

 

[Brujeria.7536]

The trait is outright bad and a waste of space. Fear, as a condition/CC has much more counters then any other condition or CC in the entire game, yet necromancers have SO LITTLE reliable access to it. On top of that we have more traits centered around fear than we have ways to cause fear. So the real problem sits much deeper here.

 

What they need to do is: Define fear as a condition OR a CC. Not both. Add at least 3 more sources of reliable fear across weapon and core utility skills.

[Dragoth.7153]

It would be nice to have fear with possible upkeep via rotation equal to, for example, time spellbreaker can stay immortal, thief invisible, time a mesmer have his clones alive or ranger's immobilisation spam.

[TheDevice.2751]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Seems to me like the trait is there for people that know their burst capability and how to use it. If that's not a power PVP thing, I don't know what is. That seems the most appropriate in the Spite line to me. Considering that every build has access to fear while the other two traits are situational, I would say it's rather well suited where it is. How the OP figures it's for condi necros, I'm not sure.

 

I already explained. Fear duration / condition duration is most compatible on condition builds. What power amulet has expertise? What power rune set offers +20% fear duration.

 

But tell me: how, as a power necro, are you going to deal your big damaging skills? Other than Shroud 3 into 4? Because from what I'm seeing, you have 1 second (1.75s max) to make use of that 20% bonus. None of your power weapons besides flipping on axe 3 are providing any fear. How often do you think you'll be getting a legit fear off?

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"TheDevice.2751" said:

> But tell me: how, as a power necro, are you going to deal your big damaging skills? Other than Shroud 3 into 4? Because from what I'm seeing, you have 1 second (1.75s max) to make use of that 20% bonus. None of your power weapons besides flipping on axe 3 are providing any fear. How often do you think you'll be getting a legit fear off?

 

Lay marks with your staff and fear players into those marks. (staff isn't specifically what I'd call a condition weapon)

Lay wells and fear players into your wells.

 

It's not that hard to find quite a few way to exploit this particular aspect of the trait with "power" and only power in mind.

It hurt me to my core to even suggest it but you can even take advantage of the _lich form_ base 2 seconds of fear. After all, lich is a power skillset like reaper shroud appear to be. Utilities can also be changed to fit any gameplay you want, for example you can use spectral wall and it only take 1 out of your 3 utility skill spot.

 

If you want to use it, you just need to adapt your gameplay to the trait and exploit it to the best of your ability. Just like some player smartly position themself in WvW and bump/fear/launch their foes from cliffs. Just set traps and fear in the traps or set area of doom and enjoy some burst as you control your foe in it. It doesn't feel that you especially need expertise to achieve some result.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"TheDevice.2751" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > Seems to me like the trait is there for people that know their burst capability and how to use it. If that's not a power PVP thing, I don't know what is. That seems the most appropriate in the Spite line to me. Considering that every build has access to fear while the other two traits are situational, I would say it's rather well suited where it is. How the OP figures it's for condi necros, I'm not sure.

>

> I already explained. Fear duration / condition duration is most compatible on condition builds. What power amulet has expertise? What power rune set offers +20% fear duration.

>

> But tell me: how, as a power necro, are you going to deal your big damaging skills? Other than Shroud 3 into 4? Because from what I'm seeing, you have 1 second (1.75s max) to make use of that 20% bonus. None of your power weapons besides flipping on axe 3 are providing any fear. How often do you think you'll be getting a legit fear off?

 

That doesn't change what I said. It's there for people that know their burst capability and how to use it. That's a power build PVP thing, unless you got some clever burst capability with condi I'm not aware of.

 

I can see why you have come to the conclusion it's trash if how you describe the game conditions is accurate to how you play. Not all traits are not designed for whatever situation you want to use them for; some need to be used thoughtfully. It's not a trash trait just because you can't apply it to your situation. Maybe it's not good for PVP in the first place so trying to make it work in PVP is difficult.

 

And how to apply big damage skills as a power necro? Dadnir above explained it better than I would have.

[Rym.1469]

It's not a bad trait. Stacks quite a bit of vulnerability on demand and has added conditional, yet significant damage modifier.

 

The only major problem I see with it right now is that it has trouble competing against CotD proc as a burst trait.

 

 

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"TheDevice.2751" said:

> Man. If there's ever been a showcase for how Anet devs do NOT PLAY NECROMANCERS.

>

> This trait is only for conditionmancers. Has no place in a power line... but there it is. Right smack dab in there just to say kitten YOU to power necros.

> 1. As a power necro you'll only ever have MAX 1.75 seconds (you wont be taking any expertise ammy's) to hit somebody with fear. Most of necro's attacks are slow.

> 2. As a power necro you'll have like zero access to fears aside from boon flips and RS3. Staff doesn't help.

> 3. A feared enemy is literally moving away from you, diminishing your chances of getting clean hits. This plus we have very little mobility.

>

> You just have to play necromancer to take one look at this skill and thing.... W T F is this?

> What fantasy world is a power necro really going to ever be able to make this trait significant in their build?

>

> Its funny because they had people code this crap into the game. $$$ spent for NOTHING. NADA. WASTE.

>

> Let me state its purpose: PVE. Thats it. I honestly wonder why they just don't have COMPLETELY Separate tree's. Like This whole tree is PVP only while this other tree is for PVE only. They make these tree lines as if they are choices or something. They're not. They're clearly made for certain modes/playstyles. Or just break the top tree line into the PVP tree line while the bottom is for PVE. Dont even bother showing the traits meant for PVE while you're editing in pvp.

>

> Some people will say "no. I like the illusion of choice". And to that I say this: whatever.

 

It's not a great trait for the all in maximize power damage kind of builds. But that doesn't mean it doesn't have a place in the game, and unlike your claims, the ideal place for this kind of cc-heavy builds is exactly PvP.

 

A Reaper with Rune of the sunless, can proc the fear effects and keep the target still so you can take full advantage of the 20%.

Same thing with Reaper Shroud pop that fear when the target is chilled from # 5, and just wail at him (them).

 

Is it probably the worse choice in those 3? Yes. Is it useless? Not really. Also no one said that trait is meant for power Necromancers. There's a reason why they made traits not bound to stats. Scourge has more fear application, and might be able to use this trait, or a future Elite...

 

Just because it doesn't apply to you at this moment doesn't make it useless.

[TheDevice.2751]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"TheDevice.2751" said:

> > But tell me: how, as a power necro, are you going to deal your big damaging skills? Other than Shroud 3 into 4? Because from what I'm seeing, you have 1 second (1.75s max) to make use of that 20% bonus. None of your power weapons besides flipping on axe 3 are providing any fear. How often do you think you'll be getting a legit fear off?

>

> Lay marks with your staff and fear players into those marks. (staff isn't specifically what I'd call a condition weapon)

> Lay wells and fear players into your wells.

>

> It's not that hard to find quite a few way to exploit this particular aspect of the trait with "power" and only power in mind.

> It hurt me to my core to even suggest it but you can even take advantage of the _lich form_ base 2 seconds of fear. After all, lich is a power skillset like reaper shroud appear to be. Utilities can also be changed to fit any gameplay you want, for example you can use spectral wall and it only take 1 out of your 3 utility skill spot.

>

> If you want to use it, you just need to adapt your gameplay to the trait and exploit it to the best of your ability. Just like some player smartly position themself in WvW and bump/fear/launch their foes from cliffs. Just set traps and fear in the traps or set area of doom and enjoy some burst as you control your foe in it. It doesn't feel that you especially need expertise to achieve some result.

 

Yet nobody does it. Who uses it? Nobody, because its not worth the trouble and it's not going to go the way you think it will 80% of the time.

The best it will get is shroud 3 into 4. I don't really see this being a thing ever.

 

But I really dont care. You're not going to use it. I'm not going to use it.

 

You have 1 second to make use of that damage. 1 second. I'm not even surprised people are defending this trait. People who are defending it don't even use it. I find it funny at this point.

 

Go use it. You got this bro.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"TheDevice.2751" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > @"TheDevice.2751" said:

> > > But tell me: how, as a power necro, are you going to deal your big damaging skills? Other than Shroud 3 into 4? Because from what I'm seeing, you have 1 second (1.75s max) to make use of that 20% bonus. None of your power weapons besides flipping on axe 3 are providing any fear. How often do you think you'll be getting a legit fear off?

> >

> > Lay marks with your staff and fear players into those marks. (staff isn't specifically what I'd call a condition weapon)

> > Lay wells and fear players into your wells.

> >

> > It's not that hard to find quite a few way to exploit this particular aspect of the trait with "power" and only power in mind.

> > It hurt me to my core to even suggest it but you can even take advantage of the _lich form_ base 2 seconds of fear. After all, lich is a power skillset like reaper shroud appear to be. Utilities can also be changed to fit any gameplay you want, for example you can use spectral wall and it only take 1 out of your 3 utility skill spot.

> >

> > If you want to use it, you just need to adapt your gameplay to the trait and exploit it to the best of your ability. Just like some player smartly position themself in WvW and bump/fear/launch their foes from cliffs. Just set traps and fear in the traps or set area of doom and enjoy some burst as you control your foe in it. It doesn't feel that you especially need expertise to achieve some result.

>

> Yet nobody does it. Who does it? Nobody, because its not worth the trouble and it's not going to go the way you think it will 80% of the time.

> The best it will get is shroud 3 into 4. I don't really see this being a thing ever.

>

> But I really dont care. You're not going to use it. I'm not going to use it.

>

> You have 1 second to make use of that damage. 1 second. I'm not even surprised people are defending this trait. People who are defending it don't even use it. I find it funny at this point.

>

> Go use it. You got this bro.

 

If the trait isn't good for PVP, don't use it. I mean, the whole line of thinking here is strange. That's why we have choice. We aren't force into traits that don't work well for certain game modes.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"TheDevice.2751" said:

>

> Yet nobody does it. Who does it? Nobody, because its not worth the trouble and it's not going to go the way you think it will 80% of the time.

> The best it will get is shroud 3 into 4. I don't really see this being a thing ever.

>

> But I really dont care. You're not going to use it. I'm not going to use it.

>

> You have 1 second to make use of that damage. 1 second. I'm not even surprised people are defending this trait. People who are defending it don't even use it. I find it funny at this point.

>

> Go use it. You got this bro.

 

You look at this trait the wrong way and this is what lead you to such extrem way of thinking. Your very mistake on this trait is that you focus your mind on those 20% extra power damage on feared foes while you should focus on the vulnerabilities which is an aspect which is part of the spite traitline since launch.

 

This trait have plenty of different use and objectively broaden the build diversity of the spite traitline. This trait can be exploit for both condi bombing and power burst. And while traits that focus on condi bombing is not something that I particularly support on the necromancer, nobody can deny that it's especially effective in PvP and WvW. Scourge, for example, excel at condi bombing and that's the main reason he hurt so much other players.

 

And before you protest about spite not being a condi traitline, remember that all soft conditions help as much power builds as they help condi builds. Even in curse, one of the minor traits grant you critical chance based on how many conditions are on your foes. And while critical chance marginally help condi build, it's something highly thought out by power builds.

 

You need to broaden your point of view. In PvP, players have "low" HP and fight can be pretty quick. In a lot of fights, you neither have the time to build might as a necromancer nor do you have the possibility to strike your target while it's health linger below 50% health point. This trait is here to give you an another option that can benefit you in these kind of situations. And want it or not, it benefit both power builds option and condi builds options. Even if you feel taht the 20% damage increase window is frustratingly low, never ever forget that you still put 8 vuln on your foe at the same time which is 8% damage increase that last a lot more than your fear. You may not benefit from the fear dps increase due to unforseen event but at the very least you will benefit from those vuln stack on your foe.

[Brujeria.7536]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"TheDevice.2751" said:

> >

> > Yet nobody does it. Who does it? Nobody, because its not worth the trouble and it's not going to go the way you think it will 80% of the time.

> > The best it will get is shroud 3 into 4. I don't really see this being a thing ever.

> >

> > But I really dont care. You're not going to use it. I'm not going to use it.

> >

> > You have 1 second to make use of that damage. 1 second. I'm not even surprised people are defending this trait. People who are defending it don't even use it. I find it funny at this point.

> >

> > Go use it. You got this bro.

>

> You look at this trait the wrong way and this is what lead you to such extrem way of thinking. Your very mistake on this trait is that you focus your mind on those 20% extra power damage on feared foes while you should focus on the vulnerabilities which is an aspect which is part of the spite traitline since launch.

>

> This trait have plenty of different use and objectively broaden the build diversity of the spite traitline. This trait can be exploit for both condi bombing and power burst. And while traits that focus on condi bombing is not something that I particularly support on the necromancer, nobody can deny that it's especially effective in PvP and WvW. Scourge, for example, excel at condi bombing and that's the main reason he hurt so much other players.

>

> And before you protest about spite not being a condi traitline, remember that all soft conditions help as much power builds as they help condi builds. Even in curse, one of the minor traits grant you critical chance based on how many conditions are on your foes. And while critical chance marginally help condi build, it's something highly thought out by power builds.

>

> You need to broaden your point of view. In PvP, players have "low" HP and fight can be pretty quick. In a lot of fights, you neither have the time to build might as a necromancer nor do you have the possibility to strike your target while it's health linger below 50% health point. This trait is here to give you an another option that can benefit you in these kind of situations. And want it or not, it benefit both power builds option and condi builds options. Even if you feel taht the 20% damage increase window is frustratingly low, never ever forget that you still put 8 vuln on your foe at the same time which is 8% damage increase that last a lot more than your fear. You may not benefit from the fear dps increase due to unforseen event but at the very least you will benefit from those vuln stack on your foe.

 

You honestly defend a trait because of that measely vuln application? Necromancer has a total of 3 "reliable" fear applications, one is bound to shroud, one is bound to a single weapon skill, one is bound to a niche utility skill. The fear window is too low for PvP to land any reliable big hits. The vuln.. well its a MASTER TIER TRAIT IN THE POWER DAMAGE LINE. Nobody cares about 10 vuln for 5 seconds. Just look at what similar classes get at this tier. Unrestricted buffs and damage increases, traits that synergize with the class as a whole. Fear at this point isnt any defining trait a necromancer has, hell even the thief fear on steal has a bigger impact. The trait is useless as its a waste of a slot, fear is way too weak to justify its existence. If it would be ANY CC from ANY source, this would be far more interesting.

[VixusIrine.9013]

I can kinda see what they're going for but it only leaves you a very small window to get the extra damage off and that's if the enemy doesn't just stun break as soon as they get feared. In terms of choice, Chill of death is a lot more useful and way more nastier than dread and hell awaken the pain is a pretty good option too if you're going power scourge. Dread would only work out in PvE where you can have multiple necromancers stack fear on a boss to get an acceptable damage boost out of it. PvP and WvWvW is just out of the question considering how much condi cleanse and stunbreaks people run, it's far to unreliable. Unless you're going core fear necro then it isn't worth it.

[DeceiverX.8361]

It's a sweet skill for the PvP formats via corrupts and use with hybrid reaper.

 

The last time I played, I made a griever's/viper's dhuumfire reaper with Onslaught and it was a damned good trait because it's 30% more combo damage on the power side of things, 10% more damage on condi ticks, and an immediate 20% extra crit chance with Decimate Defenses.

 

Useless in PvE maybe but it's a sweet burst trait when utilized, which is what Spite is meant to offer.

 

[Sarrs.4831]

Seems like it's there for Scourge. You lay up conditions, you hit Garish Pillar, they get tons of Vuln to boost your condition damage. You can sneak in a Scepter 3 with +20% damage.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Brujeria.7536" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > @"TheDevice.2751" said:

> > >

> > > Yet nobody does it. Who does it? Nobody, because its not worth the trouble and it's not going to go the way you think it will 80% of the time.

> > > The best it will get is shroud 3 into 4. I don't really see this being a thing ever.

> > >

> > > But I really dont care. You're not going to use it. I'm not going to use it.

> > >

> > > You have 1 second to make use of that damage. 1 second. I'm not even surprised people are defending this trait. People who are defending it don't even use it. I find it funny at this point.

> > >

> > > Go use it. You got this bro.

> >

> > You look at this trait the wrong way and this is what lead you to such extrem way of thinking. Your very mistake on this trait is that you focus your mind on those 20% extra power damage on feared foes while you should focus on the vulnerabilities which is an aspect which is part of the spite traitline since launch.

> >

> > This trait have plenty of different use and objectively broaden the build diversity of the spite traitline. This trait can be exploit for both condi bombing and power burst. And while traits that focus on condi bombing is not something that I particularly support on the necromancer, nobody can deny that it's especially effective in PvP and WvW. Scourge, for example, excel at condi bombing and that's the main reason he hurt so much other players.

> >

> > And before you protest about spite not being a condi traitline, remember that all soft conditions help as much power builds as they help condi builds. Even in curse, one of the minor traits grant you critical chance based on how many conditions are on your foes. And while critical chance marginally help condi build, it's something highly thought out by power builds.

> >

> > You need to broaden your point of view. In PvP, players have "low" HP and fight can be pretty quick. In a lot of fights, you neither have the time to build might as a necromancer nor do you have the possibility to strike your target while it's health linger below 50% health point. This trait is here to give you an another option that can benefit you in these kind of situations. And want it or not, it benefit both power builds option and condi builds options. Even if you feel taht the 20% damage increase window is frustratingly low, never ever forget that you still put 8 vuln on your foe at the same time which is 8% damage increase that last a lot more than your fear. You may not benefit from the fear dps increase due to unforseen event but at the very least you will benefit from those vuln stack on your foe.

>

> You honestly defend a trait because of that measely vuln application? Necromancer has a total of 3 "reliable" fear applications, one is bound to shroud, one is bound to a single weapon skill, one is bound to a niche utility skill. The fear window is too low for PvP to land any reliable big hits. The vuln.. well its a MASTER TIER TRAIT IN THE POWER DAMAGE LINE. Nobody cares about 10 vuln for 5 seconds. Just look at what similar classes get at this tier. Unrestricted buffs and damage increases, traits that synergize with the class as a whole. Fear at this point isnt any defining trait a necromancer has, hell even the thief fear on steal has a bigger impact. The trait is useless as its a waste of a slot, fear is way too weak to justify its existence. If it would be ANY CC from ANY source, this would be far more interesting.

 

I think that is an honest defense, because his description is exactly what the trait does and what I'm convinced it was meant to do; give **good** players a high burst capability in a short duration of time.

 

If the trait is useless, then don't use it for the game mode it's useless in. I'm continually shocked to see the mentality from players that EVERY trait needs to have use for every game mode they want to use it for. That's NOT why we are given choice.

 

> @"Sarrs.4831" said:

> Seems like it's there for Scourge. You lay up conditions, you hit Garish Pillar, they get tons of Vuln to boost your condition damage. You can sneak in a Scepter 3 with +20% damage.

 

That's how a good player thinks "What is the **best** way to use this trait?" ... "Is that good value for my build?" We need to see more of **that** kind of thinking.

[Brujeria.7536]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Brujeria.7536" said:

> > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > > @"TheDevice.2751" said:

> > > >

> > > > Yet nobody does it. Who does it? Nobody, because its not worth the trouble and it's not going to go the way you think it will 80% of the time.

> > > > The best it will get is shroud 3 into 4. I don't really see this being a thing ever.

> > > >

> > > > But I really dont care. You're not going to use it. I'm not going to use it.

> > > >

> > > > You have 1 second to make use of that damage. 1 second. I'm not even surprised people are defending this trait. People who are defending it don't even use it. I find it funny at this point.

> > > >

> > > > Go use it. You got this bro.

> > >

> > > You look at this trait the wrong way and this is what lead you to such extrem way of thinking. Your very mistake on this trait is that you focus your mind on those 20% extra power damage on feared foes while you should focus on the vulnerabilities which is an aspect which is part of the spite traitline since launch.

> > >

> > > This trait have plenty of different use and objectively broaden the build diversity of the spite traitline. This trait can be exploit for both condi bombing and power burst. And while traits that focus on condi bombing is not something that I particularly support on the necromancer, nobody can deny that it's especially effective in PvP and WvW. Scourge, for example, excel at condi bombing and that's the main reason he hurt so much other players.

> > >

> > > And before you protest about spite not being a condi traitline, remember that all soft conditions help as much power builds as they help condi builds. Even in curse, one of the minor traits grant you critical chance based on how many conditions are on your foes. And while critical chance marginally help condi build, it's something highly thought out by power builds.

> > >

> > > You need to broaden your point of view. In PvP, players have "low" HP and fight can be pretty quick. In a lot of fights, you neither have the time to build might as a necromancer nor do you have the possibility to strike your target while it's health linger below 50% health point. This trait is here to give you an another option that can benefit you in these kind of situations. And want it or not, it benefit both power builds option and condi builds options. Even if you feel taht the 20% damage increase window is frustratingly low, never ever forget that you still put 8 vuln on your foe at the same time which is 8% damage increase that last a lot more than your fear. You may not benefit from the fear dps increase due to unforseen event but at the very least you will benefit from those vuln stack on your foe.

> >

> > You honestly defend a trait because of that measely vuln application? Necromancer has a total of 3 "reliable" fear applications, one is bound to shroud, one is bound to a single weapon skill, one is bound to a niche utility skill. The fear window is too low for PvP to land any reliable big hits. The vuln.. well its a MASTER TIER TRAIT IN THE POWER DAMAGE LINE. Nobody cares about 10 vuln for 5 seconds. Just look at what similar classes get at this tier. Unrestricted buffs and damage increases, traits that synergize with the class as a whole. Fear at this point isnt any defining trait a necromancer has, hell even the thief fear on steal has a bigger impact. The trait is useless as its a waste of a slot, fear is way too weak to justify its existence. If it would be ANY CC from ANY source, this would be far more interesting.

>

> I think that is an honest defense, because his description is exactly what the trait does and what I'm convinced it was meant to do; give **good** players a high burst capability in a short duration of time.

>

Except that it doenst work. I see your point but there are several flaws here:

 

1. Fear has a very low duration. You cant cause fear with staff 5 and switch to axe to cast axe 2, you only will get a few hits as the time for weapon swapping, starting the skill and executing it will end the fear before you can deal any reasonable amount of damage to make it worth a slot. This gets worse with greatsword skills as these are - on paper - the best contenders.

2. Fear has all of the counters of a condition AND a stun. Chances are that even if you can land a good fear, it will get cleansed or stun broken.

3. Fear application - in the case of corrupts is RANDOM. It can work out, but this is attached to quite a lot of IFS and randomness - which has nothing to do with being a **good** player.

 

On the bottomline - the trait could be good - but fear, its implementation into the necromancer class and as a game mechanic in general robbs the purpose here.

 

> If the trait is useless, then don't use it for the game mode it's useless in. I'm continually shocked to see the mentality from players that EVERY trait needs to have use for every game mode they want to use it for. That's NOT why we are given choice.

 

Which are all game modes? Really, in PVE it has no use - in PvP it has no use as of the fear problem i mentioned above - in WvW it COULD be of use, but in such cases where you CANT reliable affect it. If youre using gravedigger in a zerg and a fear mark lands on your targets or a boon randomly gets corrupted to fear - you COULD score a big hit, but you cant really controll it.

 

Dont get me wrong here - if they fix fear as in:

- Properly integrate it into the necromancers kit (duration and ways of reliable/skill based application)

and

- Properly treating fear as a condition OR a stun to reduce the amount of counters

 

The trait could be good and a real strong choice in both WvW, PvP and maybe in some extends even in PvE. But as it stands currently its a waste of a trait choice. And chances are higher that they rework the trait than fear.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Brujeria.7536" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Brujeria.7536" said:

> > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > > > @"TheDevice.2751" said:

> > > > >

> > > > > Yet nobody does it. Who does it? Nobody, because its not worth the trouble and it's not going to go the way you think it will 80% of the time.

> > > > > The best it will get is shroud 3 into 4. I don't really see this being a thing ever.

> > > > >

> > > > > But I really dont care. You're not going to use it. I'm not going to use it.

> > > > >

> > > > > You have 1 second to make use of that damage. 1 second. I'm not even surprised people are defending this trait. People who are defending it don't even use it. I find it funny at this point.

> > > > >

> > > > > Go use it. You got this bro.

> > > >

> > > > You look at this trait the wrong way and this is what lead you to such extrem way of thinking. Your very mistake on this trait is that you focus your mind on those 20% extra power damage on feared foes while you should focus on the vulnerabilities which is an aspect which is part of the spite traitline since launch.

> > > >

> > > > This trait have plenty of different use and objectively broaden the build diversity of the spite traitline. This trait can be exploit for both condi bombing and power burst. And while traits that focus on condi bombing is not something that I particularly support on the necromancer, nobody can deny that it's especially effective in PvP and WvW. Scourge, for example, excel at condi bombing and that's the main reason he hurt so much other players.

> > > >

> > > > And before you protest about spite not being a condi traitline, remember that all soft conditions help as much power builds as they help condi builds. Even in curse, one of the minor traits grant you critical chance based on how many conditions are on your foes. And while critical chance marginally help condi build, it's something highly thought out by power builds.

> > > >

> > > > You need to broaden your point of view. In PvP, players have "low" HP and fight can be pretty quick. In a lot of fights, you neither have the time to build might as a necromancer nor do you have the possibility to strike your target while it's health linger below 50% health point. This trait is here to give you an another option that can benefit you in these kind of situations. And want it or not, it benefit both power builds option and condi builds options. Even if you feel taht the 20% damage increase window is frustratingly low, never ever forget that you still put 8 vuln on your foe at the same time which is 8% damage increase that last a lot more than your fear. You may not benefit from the fear dps increase due to unforseen event but at the very least you will benefit from those vuln stack on your foe.

> > >

> > > You honestly defend a trait because of that measely vuln application? Necromancer has a total of 3 "reliable" fear applications, one is bound to shroud, one is bound to a single weapon skill, one is bound to a niche utility skill. The fear window is too low for PvP to land any reliable big hits. The vuln.. well its a MASTER TIER TRAIT IN THE POWER DAMAGE LINE. Nobody cares about 10 vuln for 5 seconds. Just look at what similar classes get at this tier. Unrestricted buffs and damage increases, traits that synergize with the class as a whole. Fear at this point isnt any defining trait a necromancer has, hell even the thief fear on steal has a bigger impact. The trait is useless as its a waste of a slot, fear is way too weak to justify its existence. If it would be ANY CC from ANY source, this would be far more interesting.

> >

> > I think that is an honest defense, because his description is exactly what the trait does and what I'm convinced it was meant to do; give **good** players a high burst capability in a short duration of time.

> >

> Except that it doenst work. I see your point but there are several flaws here:

>

> 1. Fear has a very low duration. You cant cause fear with staff 5 and switch to axe to cast axe 2, you only will get a few hits as the time for weapon swapping, starting the skill and executing it will end the fear before you can deal any reasonable amount of damage to make it worth a slot. This gets worse with greatsword skills as these are - on paper - the best contenders.

> 2. Fear has all of the counters of a condition AND a stun. Chances are that even if you can land a good fear, it will get cleansed or stun broken.

> 3. Fear application - in the case of corrupts is RANDOM. It can work out, but this is attached to quite a lot of IFS and randomness - which has nothing to do with being a **good** player.

>

> On the bottomline - the trait could be good - but fear, its implementation into the necromancer class and as a game mechanic in general robbs the purpose here.

>

> > If the trait is useless, then don't use it for the game mode it's useless in. I'm continually shocked to see the mentality from players that EVERY trait needs to have use for every game mode they want to use it for. That's NOT why we are given choice.

>

> Which are all game modes?

 

I guess that's a matter of opinion then. Until there is a 'not useless' meter for traits that has zero player bias, arguments based on statements like that don't hold much water. The only real measure of the value of a trait is to see how it works and what situations it can be used in. That's a pretty simple thing to do here. It's based on fear and it's clear what it does for you. If those those things don't work for you, then it has no value in builds FOR YOU. I'm not saying it's the best trait as is, but sensational statements like "Not good anywhere" or "bad in all game modes" ... that's just purposefully turning off discussion to avoid having one. That's pretty ironic considering the most meaningful conversation you will have to have about this trait is with the people that have the power to change it. If you can't have that honest conversation with regular joe, you can forget about having with Anet.

 

The fact is that if you know how to use it, you can get value from the trait. I can't tell you how much, though I know it's not nothing. That DOES have SOMETHING to do with being a good player. I can immediately tell you that there is a big difference between a how a good player gets value from this trait and a bad one wasting it.

 

 

[Brujeria.7536]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Brujeria.7536" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"Brujeria.7536" said:

> > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > > > > @"TheDevice.2751" said:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yet nobody does it. Who does it? Nobody, because its not worth the trouble and it's not going to go the way you think it will 80% of the time.

> > > > > > The best it will get is shroud 3 into 4. I don't really see this being a thing ever.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But I really dont care. You're not going to use it. I'm not going to use it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You have 1 second to make use of that damage. 1 second. I'm not even surprised people are defending this trait. People who are defending it don't even use it. I find it funny at this point.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Go use it. You got this bro.

> > > > >

> > > > > You look at this trait the wrong way and this is what lead you to such extrem way of thinking. Your very mistake on this trait is that you focus your mind on those 20% extra power damage on feared foes while you should focus on the vulnerabilities which is an aspect which is part of the spite traitline since launch.

> > > > >

> > > > > This trait have plenty of different use and objectively broaden the build diversity of the spite traitline. This trait can be exploit for both condi bombing and power burst. And while traits that focus on condi bombing is not something that I particularly support on the necromancer, nobody can deny that it's especially effective in PvP and WvW. Scourge, for example, excel at condi bombing and that's the main reason he hurt so much other players.

> > > > >

> > > > > And before you protest about spite not being a condi traitline, remember that all soft conditions help as much power builds as they help condi builds. Even in curse, one of the minor traits grant you critical chance based on how many conditions are on your foes. And while critical chance marginally help condi build, it's something highly thought out by power builds.

> > > > >

> > > > > You need to broaden your point of view. In PvP, players have "low" HP and fight can be pretty quick. In a lot of fights, you neither have the time to build might as a necromancer nor do you have the possibility to strike your target while it's health linger below 50% health point. This trait is here to give you an another option that can benefit you in these kind of situations. And want it or not, it benefit both power builds option and condi builds options. Even if you feel taht the 20% damage increase window is frustratingly low, never ever forget that you still put 8 vuln on your foe at the same time which is 8% damage increase that last a lot more than your fear. You may not benefit from the fear dps increase due to unforseen event but at the very least you will benefit from those vuln stack on your foe.

> > > >

> > > > You honestly defend a trait because of that measely vuln application? Necromancer has a total of 3 "reliable" fear applications, one is bound to shroud, one is bound to a single weapon skill, one is bound to a niche utility skill. The fear window is too low for PvP to land any reliable big hits. The vuln.. well its a MASTER TIER TRAIT IN THE POWER DAMAGE LINE. Nobody cares about 10 vuln for 5 seconds. Just look at what similar classes get at this tier. Unrestricted buffs and damage increases, traits that synergize with the class as a whole. Fear at this point isnt any defining trait a necromancer has, hell even the thief fear on steal has a bigger impact. The trait is useless as its a waste of a slot, fear is way too weak to justify its existence. If it would be ANY CC from ANY source, this would be far more interesting.

> > >

> > > I think that is an honest defense, because his description is exactly what the trait does and what I'm convinced it was meant to do; give **good** players a high burst capability in a short duration of time.

> > >

> > Except that it doenst work. I see your point but there are several flaws here:

> >

> > 1. Fear has a very low duration. You cant cause fear with staff 5 and switch to axe to cast axe 2, you only will get a few hits as the time for weapon swapping, starting the skill and executing it will end the fear before you can deal any reasonable amount of damage to make it worth a slot. This gets worse with greatsword skills as these are - on paper - the best contenders.

> > 2. Fear has all of the counters of a condition AND a stun. Chances are that even if you can land a good fear, it will get cleansed or stun broken.

> > 3. Fear application - in the case of corrupts is RANDOM. It can work out, but this is attached to quite a lot of IFS and randomness - which has nothing to do with being a **good** player.

> >

> > On the bottomline - the trait could be good - but fear, its implementation into the necromancer class and as a game mechanic in general robbs the purpose here.

> >

> > > If the trait is useless, then don't use it for the game mode it's useless in. I'm continually shocked to see the mentality from players that EVERY trait needs to have use for every game mode they want to use it for. That's NOT why we are given choice.

> >

> > Which are all game modes?

>

> I guess that's a matter of opinion then. Until there is a 'not useless' meter for traits that has zero player bias, arguments based on statements like that don't hold much water. The only real measure of the value of a trait is to see how it works and what situations it can be used in. That's a pretty simple thing to do here. It's based on fear and it's clear what it does for you. If those those things don't work for you, then it has no value in builds FOR YOU. I'm not saying it's the best trait as is, but sensational statements like "Not good anywhere" or "bad in all game modes" ... that's just purposefully turning off discussion to avoid having one. That's pretty ironic considering the most meaningful conversation you will have to have about this trait is with the people that have the power to change it. If you can't have that honest conversation with regular joe, you can forget about having with Anet.

>

 

Wait what? I have given you hard facts for all of these arguments? You can easily check the sources of fear a necromancer has, as well as the duration of these sources in the wiki - there are just very few with a low duration, low in terms of "how much time does a necromancer have with its skills to deal potential damage in that time frame." I dont say you cant cause these situations per se, just that the overall kit doenst works out to make use of these situations. And thats also a fact, necromancers do have very little tools to cause instant power based burst damage - most are channels or have long casttimes, no frontloaded instant damage. Again we are talking about power damage here. If that trait did affect condi damage - you could set up condi bombs and finish them off with a fear (possibly traited with terror)

 

I have also given you reasons on why it doenst work in each of these game modes, based on the hard facts of gameplay and class design - its not that i make assumptions without prove, without arguments or without a groundwork of explanation.

 

> The fact is that if you know how to use it, you can get value from the trait. I can't tell you how much, though I know it's not nothing. That DOES have SOMETHING to do with being a good player. I can immediately tell you that there is a big difference between a how a good player gets value from this trait and a bad one wasting it.

>

 

Yes if you know how to use it - i do know how to use it, yet the windows of opportunity with a target affected by fear even if things go the right way - is far too niche to justify a master trait slot. Master traits should have an average impact on how you play the game / spec the class. This is clearly not the case here as because of the points i have mentioned. Even a GOOD player cant change the game mechanics. Fears still have all of its counters and its low duration, necromancer skills are rather clumsy for such a short time window - that stays true for a good and a bad player.

[Obtena.7952]

I don't know what to tell you. I see lots of absolute statements about how it's not good for anything. I know that's not true. Again, I'm not here to suggest how much value the trait has, but only to suggest that the value a player gets out of the trait is significantly affected by how the players uses fear in conjunction to their damage abilities. I'm just not going to sit back while someone argues there isn't any value there to make it seem like it's a foregone conclusion that Anet must act to address it. Even if it's as bad as you say, then surely the other two traits you can choose are more suited for the scenarios; in otherwords, it's not a big deal Dread is a bad trait.

 

A little off the topic here but ... in any game where I see the devs give player choices for things ... it's inevitable that one of those is 'bad'. Now, I can't claim if the bad choice is simply the law of averages kicking in ... or if there is some intentional approach to it but I do know one thing. Anytime I see choice, I know that's the devs way of telling me how they are taking a quantity approach to balance, not a quality one. Not to say choices aren't thought through but more likely, if players have choice, it's INTENDED they will take the best ones that affect the way they want to play. This isn't any different.

 

Where is that going? In quantity-based balance, there is a really hard sell to target specific choices to improve because of 'balancing' reasons.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Brujeria.7536" said:

> > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > > @"TheDevice.2751" said:

> > > >

> > > > Yet nobody does it. Who does it? Nobody, because its not worth the trouble and it's not going to go the way you think it will 80% of the time.

> > > > The best it will get is shroud 3 into 4. I don't really see this being a thing ever.

> > > >

> > > > But I really dont care. You're not going to use it. I'm not going to use it.

> > > >

> > > > You have 1 second to make use of that damage. 1 second. I'm not even surprised people are defending this trait. People who are defending it don't even use it. I find it funny at this point.

> > > >

> > > > Go use it. You got this bro.

> > >

> > > You look at this trait the wrong way and this is what lead you to such extrem way of thinking. Your very mistake on this trait is that you focus your mind on those 20% extra power damage on feared foes while you should focus on the vulnerabilities which is an aspect which is part of the spite traitline since launch.

> > >

> > > This trait have plenty of different use and objectively broaden the build diversity of the spite traitline. This trait can be exploit for both condi bombing and power burst. And while traits that focus on condi bombing is not something that I particularly support on the necromancer, nobody can deny that it's especially effective in PvP and WvW. Scourge, for example, excel at condi bombing and that's the main reason he hurt so much other players.

> > >

> > > And before you protest about spite not being a condi traitline, remember that all soft conditions help as much power builds as they help condi builds. Even in curse, one of the minor traits grant you critical chance based on how many conditions are on your foes. And while critical chance marginally help condi build, it's something highly thought out by power builds.

> > >

> > > You need to broaden your point of view. In PvP, players have "low" HP and fight can be pretty quick. In a lot of fights, you neither have the time to build might as a necromancer nor do you have the possibility to strike your target while it's health linger below 50% health point. This trait is here to give you an another option that can benefit you in these kind of situations. And want it or not, it benefit both power builds option and condi builds options. Even if you feel taht the 20% damage increase window is frustratingly low, never ever forget that you still put 8 vuln on your foe at the same time which is 8% damage increase that last a lot more than your fear. You may not benefit from the fear dps increase due to unforseen event but at the very least you will benefit from those vuln stack on your foe.

> >

> > You honestly defend a trait because of that measely vuln application? Necromancer has a total of 3 "reliable" fear applications, one is bound to shroud, one is bound to a single weapon skill, one is bound to a niche utility skill. The fear window is too low for PvP to land any reliable big hits. The vuln.. well its a MASTER TIER TRAIT IN THE POWER DAMAGE LINE. Nobody cares about 10 vuln for 5 seconds. Just look at what similar classes get at this tier. Unrestricted buffs and damage increases, traits that synergize with the class as a whole. Fear at this point isnt any defining trait a necromancer has, hell even the thief fear on steal has a bigger impact. The trait is useless as its a waste of a slot, fear is way too weak to justify its existence. If it would be ANY CC from ANY source, this would be far more interesting.

>

> I think that is an honest defense, because his description is exactly what the trait does and what I'm convinced it was meant to do; give **good** players a high burst capability in a short duration of time.

>

> If the trait is useless, then don't use it for the game mode it's useless in. I'm continually shocked to see the mentality from players that EVERY trait needs to have use for every game mode they want to use it for. That's NOT why we are given choice.

>

> > @"Sarrs.4831" said:

> > Seems like it's there for Scourge. You lay up conditions, you hit Garish Pillar, they get tons of Vuln to boost your condition damage. You can sneak in a Scepter 3 with +20% damage.

>

> That's how a good player thinks "What is the **best** way to use this trait?" ... "Is that good value for my build?" We need to see more of **that** kind of thinking.

 

Gosh. Are you really that blind? This trait is useless for all gamemode except for some special builds in special situations. It's a niche trait for niche situation. Double niche: pretty useless.

 

The fear uptime you can get is way too low to make use of this trait. It's uptime is only good for condi players, where it's not taken for the extra dmg rather than the vulnerability.

 

Here I used it on my core condi necro:

 

 

Traits:

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQB4oWoovxdctxwOD6XYXHANAA-w

 

Because core doesn't have enough dmg to kill anyone fast enough and it doesn't do proper vulnerability.

 

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Brujeria.7536" said:

> You honestly defend a trait because of that measely vuln application? Necromancer has a total of 3 "reliable" fear applications, one is bound to shroud, one is bound to a single weapon skill, one is bound to a niche utility skill. The fear window is too low for PvP to land any reliable big hits. The vuln.. well its a MASTER TIER TRAIT IN THE POWER DAMAGE LINE. Nobody cares about 10 vuln for 5 seconds. Just look at what similar classes get at this tier. Unrestricted buffs and damage increases, traits that synergize with the class as a whole. Fear at this point isnt any defining trait a necromancer has, hell even the thief fear on steal has a bigger impact. The trait is useless as its a waste of a slot, fear is way too weak to justify its existence. If it would be ANY CC from ANY source, this would be far more interesting.

 

Vuln on master trait:

- Warrior: _sundering burst_ (vuln on burst skill use, a bit stronger than _dread_)

- Guardian: _binding jeopardy_ (vuln when you bind or immobilize as a guardian. Yeah super niche and the trait is definitely weaker in all aspect vs _dread_.)

- Thief: _Deadly trapper_ (trap apply vuln, clearly not stronger than _dread_), _sundering shade_ (stealth attack apply vuln)

- Engineer: _lock on_ (very niche trait), _expert extermination_ (vuln on hard CC, can be seen as slightly stronger than _dread_)

 

This should be enough to prove that in this trait tier, such traits exist for a lot of professions and they are not excessively "better" than _dread_. Should all those professions riot because they own such trait? No.

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

 

> Here I used it on my core condi necro:

>

>

>

> Traits:

>

> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQB4oWoovxdctxwOD6XYXHANAA-w

>

> Because core doesn't have enough dmg to kill anyone fast enough and it doesn't do proper vulnerability.

>

 

So many people cry when this is exactly how it suppose to be used.

 

The trait gave us 10% damage fore free across all axe skills and put some has some use to hybrid condi builds (best results with core) a long forgotten thing that no one ever tries to make work anymore because its all about scourge scourge scourge right now.

 

In some rare instances you can make use of the bonus damage but still not something you take it and look 100% forward too.