Can eles get some buffs in pvp?

[LazySummer.2568]

That is not Shatterstone or increasing random water/dagger skills damage by 50~66%? (making it look like a huge buff on the surface when it's nothing in reality because these skills do wet-noodle level damage to begin with)

 

I personally think the Riptide heal nerf should be reverted or better barriers if ele's supposed to take on the side-node duelist role because it really makes no sense how a pure bunker build only has similiar amounts of sustain as other specs such as spellbreakers & holos that are built for damage. Making it so not every single sword skills are pure melee, high cast time skills can also work.

 

If ele's supposed to be a support, tempest need better self sustain because it can't support anything when it can't even stand on node without getting obliterated by scourges or ccs.

 

If ele's supposed to be the stupid +1 role such as FA or staff, either it should get better access to escape like thieves & mesmer or its slow/channeled attacks should do big impact when they do land. For example, Dragon's Tooth and Pile Driver doing only similar amount of damage as a fast skill such as Plasma Beam is not ok. Also, Shatterstone is such a meme that even after the buff and having Piercing Shards traited, I just see enemies walk all over them like they don't exist in team fights while losing to some scepter mesmer who face-tanked it 3 times in a 1v1.

[Hoodie.1045]

> @"LazySummer.2568" said:

> If ele's supposed to be the stupid +1 role such as FA or staff, either it should get better access to escape like thieves & mesmer or its slow/channeled attacks should do big impact when they do land. For example, Dragon's Tooth and Pile Driver doing only similar amount of damage as a fast skill such as Plasma Beam is not ok. Also, Shatterstone is such a meme that even after the buff and having Piercing Shards traited, I just see enemies walk all over them like they don't exist in team fights while losing to some scepter mesmer who face-tanked it 3 times in a 1v1.

 

The only thing that I would love to see changed about core elementalist is for the scepter auto attacks to be reworked as well as the focus fire skills. Every scepter auto attack except the air one is awful and the fire focus skills serve no purpose other than might stacking.

[Durzlla.6295]

It feels like the main problem with ele is in PvP it either has to take very specific traits and utilities so it has actual survivability, or it just implodes upon showing up to a fight. Feels like they could really just bake some of the trait defenses into ele baseline without really making it OP in any gamemode.

[Ryan.9387]

If shatterstone isn't buffed by 7% you know it's a bad balance patch.

[Poelala.2830]

> @"Hoodie.1045" said:

> > @"LazySummer.2568" said:

> > If ele's supposed to be the stupid +1 role such as FA or staff, either it should get better access to escape like thieves & mesmer or its slow/channeled attacks should do big impact when they do land. For example, Dragon's Tooth and Pile Driver doing only similar amount of damage as a fast skill such as Plasma Beam is not ok. Also, Shatterstone is such a meme that even after the buff and having Piercing Shards traited, I just see enemies walk all over them like they don't exist in team fights while losing to some scepter mesmer who face-tanked it 3 times in a 1v1.

>

> The only thing that I would love to see changed about core elementalist is for the scepter auto attacks to be reworked as well as the focus fire skills. Every scepter auto attack except the air one is awful and the fire focus skills serve no purpose other than might stacking.

 

False. The water auto is amazing when using SoR to spam self heals.

[Hoodie.1045]

> @"Poelala.2830" said:

> > @"Hoodie.1045" said:

> > > @"LazySummer.2568" said:

> > > If ele's supposed to be the stupid +1 role such as FA or staff, either it should get better access to escape like thieves & mesmer or its slow/channeled attacks should do big impact when they do land. For example, Dragon's Tooth and Pile Driver doing only similar amount of damage as a fast skill such as Plasma Beam is not ok. Also, Shatterstone is such a meme that even after the buff and having Piercing Shards traited, I just see enemies walk all over them like they don't exist in team fights while losing to some scepter mesmer who face-tanked it 3 times in a 1v1.

> >

> > The only thing that I would love to see changed about core elementalist is for the scepter auto attacks to be reworked as well as the focus fire skills. Every scepter auto attack except the air one is awful and the fire focus skills serve no purpose other than might stacking.

>

> False. The water auto is amazing when using SoR to spam self heals.

 

The water auto isn't bad, but it isn't good either. It is only useful to heal yourself when using Signet of Restoration and that's about it. It scales better with power damage compared to the fire and earth auto attacks and it has the shortest cast time.

[Poelala.2830]

> @"Hoodie.1045" said:

> > @"Poelala.2830" said:

> > > @"Hoodie.1045" said:

> > > > @"LazySummer.2568" said:

> > > > If ele's supposed to be the stupid +1 role such as FA or staff, either it should get better access to escape like thieves & mesmer or its slow/channeled attacks should do big impact when they do land. For example, Dragon's Tooth and Pile Driver doing only similar amount of damage as a fast skill such as Plasma Beam is not ok. Also, Shatterstone is such a meme that even after the buff and having Piercing Shards traited, I just see enemies walk all over them like they don't exist in team fights while losing to some scepter mesmer who face-tanked it 3 times in a 1v1.

> > >

> > > The only thing that I would love to see changed about core elementalist is for the scepter auto attacks to be reworked as well as the focus fire skills. Every scepter auto attack except the air one is awful and the fire focus skills serve no purpose other than might stacking.

> >

> > False. The water auto is amazing when using SoR to spam self heals.

>

> The water auto isn't bad, but it isn't good either. It is only useful to heal yourself when using Signet of Restoration and that's about it. It scales better with power damage compared to the fire and earth auto attacks and it has the shortest cast time.

 

I don’t know specifically what type of changes you want to the autos, but all are great with, maybe exception to, fire.

[Rufo.3716]

Learn to play piano and you'll be just fine. I've seen plenty of eles do good in PvP, it's just a very hard class to play to it's full potential.

[Hoodie.1045]

> @"Poelala.2830" said:

> > @"Hoodie.1045" said:

> > > @"Poelala.2830" said:

> > > > @"Hoodie.1045" said:

> > > > > @"LazySummer.2568" said:

> > > > > If ele's supposed to be the stupid +1 role such as FA or staff, either it should get better access to escape like thieves & mesmer or its slow/channeled attacks should do big impact when they do land. For example, Dragon's Tooth and Pile Driver doing only similar amount of damage as a fast skill such as Plasma Beam is not ok. Also, Shatterstone is such a meme that even after the buff and having Piercing Shards traited, I just see enemies walk all over them like they don't exist in team fights while losing to some scepter mesmer who face-tanked it 3 times in a 1v1.

> > > >

> > > > The only thing that I would love to see changed about core elementalist is for the scepter auto attacks to be reworked as well as the focus fire skills. Every scepter auto attack except the air one is awful and the fire focus skills serve no purpose other than might stacking.

> > >

> > > False. The water auto is amazing when using SoR to spam self heals.

> >

> > The water auto isn't bad, but it isn't good either. It is only useful to heal yourself when using Signet of Restoration and that's about it. It scales better with power damage compared to the fire and earth auto attacks and it has the shortest cast time.

>

> I don’t know specifically what type of changes you want to the autos, but all are great with, maybe exception to, fire.

 

Arc Lightning and Ice Shards are fine as they are.

 

The only changes I would like to see for Flamestrike and Stone Shards is for them to scale better with power damage than Ice Shards. Flamestrike the second highest damage, Stone Shards the third highest damage.

 

Stone Shards should have its' cast time reduced from 1.5 seconds to 0.75 seconds and maybe have it apply weakness.

 

Flamestrike should have its' cast time reduced from 1 second to 0.5 seconds and it allows you to attack foes from behind you. This would be a great auto attack to kite enemies with.

[Crab Fear.1624]

Maybe ele is hard to play, but the ones I have seen in games and on video montages don't seem to suffer. Please no buffs

[Stand The Wall.6987]

buff staff tho

[LazySummer.2568]

> @"Rufo.3716" said:

> Learn to play piano and you'll be just fine. I've seen plenty of eles do good in PvP, it's just a very hard class to play to it's full potential.

 

if you think ele in pvp is hard because it has "too many buttons" you don't know how ele's work. It's not hard because it has 4 attunements and supposedly bunch of skills that you have to keep swapping to, it's hard because it's suboptimal in both tankiness and dps compared to other classes. It's a lot more about not making any mistakes such as swapping to the right attunement and using the right skills (and your dodges) at the right time while also keeping track of your cds. The 4s cd on weaver attunement swap or default 10s prevents a lot of these "piano mechanics" that if you just randomly swap in and out you'll lock yourself out of key skills that you need to either put pressure on opponent or keep yourself alive.

[LazySummer.2568]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> Maybe ele is hard to play, but the ones I have seen in games and on video montages don't seem to suffer. Please no buffs

 

Montages are cherry picks that don't provide any useful insights while eles in actual games are more or less getting carried by their teams. Eg. waste time on 1v1ing forever on far node hoping your teammates will win the rest of the map (I mean I've seen so many footages in montages where it's even a case where the ele is just wasting time, cant get enemy off node to cap for shit, until someone else +1 the ele) or hope your necros draw all the attention away from you so you can maybe burst someone down from ~80%hp, not even 100%, as FA ele

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Before the ele nerf back in feburary, i felt ele was in a decent spot. I only play maurder sc/f fa weaver so it did lack in aoe damage but made up for it with some decent single target dps able to burst down most classes if they weren't ready for it. Now with the nerf to electric discharge and plasma beam that came with the feburary nerfs it has only bruiser damage potential. Thats fine and all only if you play it smart and burst with your team. However this game lacks almost any way to be coordinated with ur team mates precisely enough to make this less then bruiser class viable in a game where aoe rules all.

 

And because of the February nerfs i havnt played ele in ranked pvp seriously at all since then. I actually record n post most of my games. All of season 11 was with warrior. Season 1-10 was ele like 95%. Season 11 95% war juat because how un viable ele dps is now.

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"LazySummer.2568" said:

> > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > Maybe ele is hard to play, but the ones I have seen in games and on video montages don't seem to suffer. Please no buffs

>

> Montages are cherry picks that don't provide any useful insights while eles in actual games are more or less getting carried by their teams. Eg. waste time on 1v1ing forever on far node hoping your teammates will win the rest of the map (I mean I've seen so many footages in montages where it's even a case where the ele is just wasting time, cant get enemy off node to cap for kitten, until someone else +1 the ele) or hope your necros draw all the attention away from you so you can maybe burst someone down from ~80%hp, not even 100% as FA ele

 

A buff to damage should have an equal balance in a nerf to sustain. I was in a match just where an ele was 3 v1. He kept the node.

 

Buffs to ele will make them the same kind of monster that rev will become will they nerf mesmers and necros again in the next patch.

 

Don't think we haven't noticed the rev rising.

 

But, maybe a rev and ele meta is due. lol

[ArthurDent.9538]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > @"LazySummer.2568" said:

> > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > Maybe ele is hard to play, but the ones I have seen in games and on video montages don't seem to suffer. Please no buffs

> >

> > Montages are cherry picks that don't provide any useful insights while eles in actual games are more or less getting carried by their teams. Eg. waste time on 1v1ing forever on far node hoping your teammates will win the rest of the map (I mean I've seen so many footages in montages where it's even a case where the ele is just wasting time, cant get enemy off node to cap for kitten, until someone else +1 the ele) or hope your necros draw all the attention away from you so you can maybe burst someone down from ~80%hp, not even 100% as FA ele

>

> A buff to damage should have an equal balance in a nerf to sustain. I was in a match just where an ele was 3 v1. He kept the node.

>

> Buffs to ele will make them the same kind of monster that rev will become will they nerf mesmers and necros again in the next patch.

>

> Don't think we haven't noticed the rev rising.

>

> But, maybe a rev and ele meta is due. lol

 

Considering they are the only two classes that still haven't even made it to the finals of any major tournaments since pof (monthly at, Ugo, that woodenpotatoes tourney) it would be nice for them to be top dogs for a bit.

[LazySummer.2568]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > @"LazySummer.2568" said:

> > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > Maybe ele is hard to play, but the ones I have seen in games and on video montages don't seem to suffer. Please no buffs

> >

> > Montages are cherry picks that don't provide any useful insights while eles in actual games are more or less getting carried by their teams. Eg. waste time on 1v1ing forever on far node hoping your teammates will win the rest of the map (I mean I've seen so many footages in montages where it's even a case where the ele is just wasting time, cant get enemy off node to cap for kitten, until someone else +1 the ele) or hope your necros draw all the attention away from you so you can maybe burst someone down from ~80%hp, not even 100% as FA ele

>

> A buff to damage should have an equal balance in a nerf to sustain. I was in a match just where an ele was 3 v1. He kept the node.

>

> Buffs to ele will make them the same kind of monster that rev will become will they nerf mesmers and necros again in the next patch.

>

> Don't think we haven't noticed the rev rising.

>

> But, maybe a rev and ele meta is due. lol

 

Bunker eles only win 3v1s when the 3's are stupid and dont realize they already won the game when they kick the ele off node long enough for the decap because there's no real way that ele is going to get the full cap back 1v1ing against any other proper 1v1 classes. Whereas 3v1 against, say spellbreakers, holos, mirages, you can't really be sure until they are dead or leave completely because they actually have a chance to do enough damage in 1v1 to win back the node. All bunker ele's is good for is baiting high value team fight classes such as brainless scourges into 1v1/ 2v1ing* them forever. *Note that it's still plently possible to debunk an ele really quickly as a scourge 2v1ing sometimes a kill, when they dare to make even 1 mistake.

[Abelisk.4527]

Sword weaver needs damage buffs that don't rely on CC.

[bravan.3876]

They should nerf all dmg from all these bunker and bruiser builds not buff any of these. Even ele has still too much dmg compared to the brainless sustain it has. Just because other builds have even more dmg don't make it a good reason to buff. Also the sustain of these builds should get nerfed in a way, that it dies way faster when played bad. The only support/bunker/bruiser build is more or less balanced in the sustain-dmg relation is support fb.

[Theros.1390]

An also, considering that sword weaver is a short range fighter, in a melee I feel like I'm SO reliant on Protection. So much.

 

it's tuff when there is a scourge near :)

 

> @"bravan.3876" said:

> Even ele has still too much dmg compared to the brainless sustain it has.

 

Totally agree. The healing potential is huge, but at least it also depens on the explosions you have to made in riptide water field. Weaver is almost balanced (not compare to others class, I mean itself). It just needs a little nerf on his healing, and a little more damages on his sword.

 

 

> @"Abelisk.4527" said:

> Sword weaver needs damage buffs that don't rely on CC.

 

Also true. Sword dont allow to burst. It relies on the counterpressure made by conditions, inflicted by primordial stance, Pyro vortex, and Lava skin.

 

But still, today in a general context, Sword weaver is not bad at all, and S/F Fresh air can be a dangerous foe if well played.

[LazySummer.2568]

> @"bravan.3876" said:

> They should nerf all dmg from all these bunker and bruiser builds not buff any of these. Even ele has still too much dmg compared to the brainless sustain it has. Just because other builds have even more dmg don't make it a good reason to buff. Also the sustain of these builds should get nerfed in a way, that it dies way faster when played bad. The only support/bunker/bruiser build is more or less balanced in the sustain-dmg relation is support fb.

 

you sound like someone that doesnt know how to fight against bunker weavers. Literally just kite around when you see primordial stance pulsing and there goes most of its damage. Also, Brusier =/= bunker. Support bunker fb dont do damage but they have a lot higher survival / node holding potential than weavers. The most bunkery weaver build basically does as much dmg as a support fb when they pull out their F1 tomes. Ones with Sages amulet for example has nowhere near the sustain as a support fb

[bravan.3876]

> @"LazySummer.2568" said:

> > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > They should nerf all dmg from all these bunker and bruiser builds not buff any of these. Even ele has still too much dmg compared to the brainless sustain it has. Just because other builds have even more dmg don't make it a good reason to buff. Also the sustain of these builds should get nerfed in a way, that it dies way faster when played bad. The only support/bunker/bruiser build is more or less balanced in the sustain-dmg relation is support fb.

>

> you sound like someone that doesnt know how to fight against bunker weavers. Literally just kite around when you see primordial stance pulsing and there goes most of its damage. Also, Brusier =/= bunker. Support bunker fb dont do damage but they have a lot higher survival / node holding potential than weavers. The most bunkery weaver build basically does as much dmg as a support fb when they pull out their F1 tomes. Ones with Sages amulet for example has nowhere near the sustain as a support fb

 

Wrong. And i know how to fight an ele: You don't fight an ele 1v1 ever, at least not on his node.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > @"LazySummer.2568" said:

> > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > Maybe ele is hard to play, but the ones I have seen in games and on video montages don't seem to suffer. Please no buffs

> >

> > Montages are cherry picks that don't provide any useful insights while eles in actual games are more or less getting carried by their teams. Eg. waste time on 1v1ing forever on far node hoping your teammates will win the rest of the map (I mean I've seen so many footages in montages where it's even a case where the ele is just wasting time, cant get enemy off node to cap for kitten, until someone else +1 the ele) or hope your necros draw all the attention away from you so you can maybe burst someone down from ~80%hp, not even 100% as FA ele

>

> A buff to damage should have an equal balance in a nerf to sustain. I was in a match just where an ele was 3 v1. He kept the node.

>

> Buffs to ele will make them the same kind of monster that rev will become will they nerf mesmers and necros again in the next patch.

>

> Don't think we haven't noticed the rev rising.

>

> But, maybe a rev and ele meta is due. lol

 

Ele has no mechanical sustain, the first things an ele player ask himself : "have I got enough healing power and vitality?" - before even checking his traits and skills, the class has been bound to healing power amulets since 2012 : valkyrie then celestial then mender and this was the to go mode for 90% of ele players, remaining 10% was tryhard zerker burst using a suboptimal build just for the wow factor and the element of surprise...still it was very easy to neutralise, after all zerk ele has never been meta in pvp if not for a short chaotic period in 2014 and even then the build was "meta" because ele had nothing else..still the build was mainly useless, so much that the devs were forced to reinvert the nerfs on SoR , cantrips and Cleansing water GM **did you all forget about that?**

 

Like the valkyrie meta brought some devastating nerfs to ele, @Sharp nerfed SoR, cantrips and added 2s ICD to cleansing water and the whole profession became instantly unplayable ( way more than now when it's already the worst class)....**out of desperation the devs reverted the nerfs on ele....nowhere else they ever did that** - look how terrible the whole design is..without his gimmicks, the class is less than nothing and need to be re-done...nah easier to reinstate the gimmicks am I right?!

 

You are not wrong in saying that buffs in dmg should come with nerfs in sustain but ...that will only leave ele at square 1 because the class is not allowed to have a healthy balance between dmg and sustain, it's either sustain and wet noodle dmg or dmg and instadeath . Fundamentally speaking the whole class is a train wreck , it has no base sustain mechanic and everything is about using waterline and stacking as much healing power as possible.

 

Any PvP meta for ele has always been healbot galore but now other professions can easily outsustain even the most sturdy healbot ele, reason why the class is not meta...it's a trash design not worth investing time in it like rev without herald line, gimmick classes with no identity, the work of an interim fresh from college

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"LazySummer.2568" said:

> That is not Shatterstone or increasing random water/dagger skills damage by 50~66%? (making it look like a huge buff on the surface when it's nothing in reality because these skills do wet-noodle level damage to begin with)

>

> I personally think the Riptide heal nerf should be reverted or better barriers if ele's supposed to take on the side-node duelist role because it really makes no sense how a pure bunker build only has similiar amounts of sustain as other specs such as spellbreakers & holos that are built for damage. Making it so not every single sword skills are pure melee, high cast time skills can also work.

>

> If ele's supposed to be a support, tempest need better self sustain because it can't support anything when it can't even stand on node without getting obliterated by scourges or ccs.

>

> If ele's supposed to be the stupid +1 role such as FA or staff, either it should get better access to escape like thieves & mesmer or its slow/channeled attacks should do big impact when they do land. For example, Dragon's Tooth and Pile Driver doing only similar amount of damage as a fast skill such as Plasma Beam is not ok. Also, Shatterstone is such a meme that even after the buff and having Piercing Shards traited, I just see enemies walk all over them like they don't exist in team fights while losing to some scepter mesmer who face-tanked it 3 times in a 1v1.

 

Ele players still asking for buffs...by now you should have realised that the class is useless outside the healbot gimmick with all defensive traits, the whole design lacks direction and it's still based on 2012 design philosophy

[mortrialus.3062]

Bring back fresh air weaver as viable spikey off node damage.