Tyson.5160 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > Tex, if WvW is a dead mode, then Raids is sitting there with it. Please tell me, if Raids didn’t have Legendary Armor, you know rewards, would the same amount of people be playing it today? > > > > > > > > Yes every person that **plays** would still play Raids even without Legendary Armor. > > > Trust me, not everyone. Not even close. If you really think that way, then you probably simply have a vastly different type of ingame friends/acquaintances than i do. > > > > > > >Hall of Chains doesn't have Legendary Armor rewards but it is still being played. > > > It still has LI. And it _is_played much less than previous wings. I know a lot of regular and semi-regular raiders that skip it completely (or at least started skipping it after getting that one kill for each boss there, to unlock coalescence). > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I know regular and semi-regular raiders who *only* clear W5 recently. Anecdotal evidence either way. > > > > By the way, on the topic of dungeons... Dungeons didn't just die when they became non-profitable. They died when they became non-profitable *AND* when the game offered better instanced content. The extrapolation to raids dying if their loot suddenly became poor fails to account for that second reason. Raids are the best instanced content in the game. And they are not that profitable anyway. So that particular conclusion seems quite the stretch. > > According to GW2 Efficiency 30% of people have done Vale Guardian. 7% Have done Soulless Horror. And that’s just the kill, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > Tex, if WvW is a dead mode, then Raids is sitting there with it. Please tell me, if Raids didn’t have Legendary Armor, you know rewards, would the same amount of people be playing it today? > > > > > > > > > > Yes every person that **plays** would still play Raids even without Legendary Armor. > > > > Trust me, not everyone. Not even close. If you really think that way, then you probably simply have a vastly different type of ingame friends/acquaintances than i do. > > > > > > > > >Hall of Chains doesn't have Legendary Armor rewards but it is still being played. > > > > It still has LI. And it _is_played much less than previous wings. I know a lot of regular and semi-regular raiders that skip it completely (or at least started skipping it after getting that one kill for each boss there, to unlock coalescence). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I know regular and semi-regular raiders who *only* clear W5 recently. Anecdotal evidence either way. > > > > > > By the way, on the topic of dungeons... Dungeons didn't just die when they became non-profitable. They died when they became non-profitable *AND* when the game offered better instanced content. The extrapolation to raids dying if their loot suddenly became poor fails to account for that second reason. Raids are the best instanced content in the game. And they are not that profitable anyway. So that particular conclusion seems quite the stretch. > > > > According to GW2 Efficiency 30% of people have done Vale Guardian. 7% Have done Soulless Horror. > > And that’s just the kill, correct? Who has the achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > According to GW2 Efficiency 30% of people have done Vale Guardian. 7% Have done Soulless Horror. To be more specific: Vale Guardian: 30% or 52,277 players Slothasor: 17.5% or 30,619 players Escort: 29.6% or 47,095 players Cairn: 20.5% or 35,900 players Soulless Horror: 7.4% or 12,946 players Also, according to gw2efficiency there is 22% less players owning Path of Fire (71.7%) than Heart of Thorns (93.5%) The completion percentages are out of the 100% of gw2efficiency accounts, not only from eligible players. For some reason the percentages of those that have the achievements do not match the number of players that have each expansion (don't know how gw2eff works). Total number of players is 195262, but in the achievement page they compare with 174,935 I don't know they get that number. According to the total stat page, 182,599 have Heart of Thorns and 140,111 have Path of Fire, which makes the actual percentages (when adjusted for eligibility) as follows: Vale Guardian: 28.6% Slothasor: 16.7% Escort: 25.7% Cairn: 19.6% Soulless Horror: 9.2% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > According to GW2 Efficiency 30% of people have done Vale Guardian. 7% Have done Soulless Horror. > To be more specific: > Vale Guardian: 30% or 52,277 players > Slothasor: 17.5% or 30,619 players > Escort: 29.6% or 47,095 players > Cairn: 20.5% or 35,900 players > Soulless Horror: 7.4% or 12,946 players > > Also, according to gw2efficiency there is 22% less players owning Path of Fire (71.7%) than Heart of Thorns (93.5%) The completion percentages are out of the 100% of gw2efficiency accounts, not only from eligible players. For some reason the percentages of those that have the achievements do not match the number of players that have each expansion (don't know how gw2eff works). Total number of players is 195262, but in the achievement page they compare with 174,935 I don't know they get that number. > According to the total stat page, 182,599 have Heart of Thorns and 140,111 have Path of Fire, which makes the actual percentages (when adjusted for eligibility) as follows: > > Vale Guardian: 28.6% > Slothasor: 16.7% > Escort: 25.7% > Cairn: 19.6% > Soulless Horror: 9.2% Find that very interesting is it the difficulty of wing 5 or a matter of demographics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > According to GW2 Efficiency 30% of people have done Vale Guardian. 7% Have done Soulless Horror. > To be more specific: > Vale Guardian: 30% or 52,277 players > Slothasor: 17.5% or 30,619 players > Escort: 29.6% or 47,095 players > Cairn: 20.5% or 35,900 players > Soulless Horror: 7.4% or 12,946 players > > Also, according to gw2efficiency there is 22% less players owning Path of Fire (71.7%) than Heart of Thorns (93.5%) The completion percentages are out of the 100% of gw2efficiency accounts, not only from eligible players. For some reason the percentages of those that have the achievements do not match the number of players that have each expansion (don't know how gw2eff works). Total number of players is 195262, but in the achievement page they compare with 174,935 I don't know they get that number. > According to the total stat page, 182,599 have Heart of Thorns and 140,111 have Path of Fire, which makes the actual percentages (when adjusted for eligibility) as follows: > > Vale Guardian: 28.6% > Slothasor: 16.7% > Escort: 25.7% > Cairn: 19.6% > Soulless Horror: 9.2% Differences perhaps come from different APIs entered. I don't think I've updated mine in a while and I can see some things for my account, but not everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > Find that very interesting is it the difficulty of wing 5 or a matter of demographics? I think the difficulty is important, especially for the Soulless Horror which is a very weird designed boss that gets easier and easier the more you progress. At the end it's really stupidly easy compared to how it starts, which goes backwards to how Raid encounters should be. Maybe someone misunderstood the mechanics or something? But I doubt it was on purpose. Every other Raid boss gets progressively harder except for this one. Also, it hasn't been even 1 year since Hall of Chains was released. We don't (?) have similar data from 1 year after the release of Spirit Vale to see how it looked. Of course Spirit Vale being the very first Raid I wouldn't be surprised if the completion rates of it at first were very very low, since it was new. While Hall of Chains was probably run by more experienced Raiders. Note how according to gw2efficiency there is only a tiny 0.4% (or just 867 players) that got directly into Path of Fire, the rest of them also bought Heart of Thorns. > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > Differences perhaps come from different APIs entered. I don't think I've updated mine in a while and I can see some things for my account, but not everything. Yeah that's the most probable answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > Find that very interesting is it the difficulty of wing 5 or a matter of demographics? > > I think the difficulty is important, especially for the Soulless Horror which is a very weird designed boss that gets easier and easier the more you progress. At the end it's really stupidly easy compared to how it starts, which goes backwards to how Raid encounters should be. Maybe someone misunderstood the mechanics or something? But I doubt it was on purpose. Every other Raid boss gets progressively harder except for this one. > > Also, it hasn't been even 1 year since Hall of Chains was released. We don't (?) have similar data from 1 year after the release of Spirit Vale to see how it looked. Of course Spirit Vale being the very first Raid I wouldn't be surprised if the completion rates of it at first were very very low, since it was new. While Hall of Chains was probably run by more experienced Raiders. Note how according to gw2efficiency there is only a tiny 0.4% (or just 867 players) that got directly into Path of Fire, the rest of them also bought Heart of Thorns. > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > Differences perhaps come from different APIs entered. I don't think I've updated mine in a while and I can see some things for my account, but not everything. > > Yeah that's the most probable answer. Yeah, I’m not sure what the issue is with wing 5 is, are people just getting bored and disinterested? Guess we’ll see what the stats on wing 6 are like hopefully it’s not a downward trend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > Yeah, I’m not sure what the issue is with wing 5 is, are people just getting bored and disinterested? Guess we’ll see what the stats on wing 6 are like hopefully it’s not a downward trend. You can check if there is a downward using other data, you don't have to check Raids specifically. For example, Trade Contracts (the most common Path of Fire currency) is at 70% while Kralkatite Ore (Episode 1 currency) is at 45.5%. Which shows a downward trend for the game as a whole, it should affect Raids too. I can't seem to find Difluorite Crystals. It's similar with LS3 currencies, I have a comparison here between July 2017 and May 2018 (before Orrian Pearls were added): 60.5% / 63.5% 54.5% / 58% 52.5% / 57.5% 52% / 56.5% 51.5% / 55% 0% / 50.5% A downward trend in participation of Raids shouldn't be seen outside a downward trend for the game as a whole. Edit: important thing to note, Halls of Chains was released together with the Domain of Istan. Global game stats (trade contracts and kralkatite ore) went from 70% to 45.5%, a very high 24.5% reduction between the release of Path of Fire and the introduction of Episode 1. Meaning Hall of Chains had a much reduced playerbase to work with. A reduction that didn't have anything to do with Raids, but with the game as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > Yeah, I’m not sure what the issue is with wing 5 is, are people just getting bored and disinterested? Guess we’ll see what the stats on wing 6 are like hopefully it’s not a downward trend. > > You can check if there is a downward using other data, you don't have to check Raids specifically. > For example, Trade Contracts (the most common Path of Fire currency) is at 70% while Kralkatite Ore (Episode 1 currency) is at 45.5%. > Which shows a downward trend for the game as a whole, it should affect Raids too. I can't seem to find Difluorite Crystals. > > It's similar with LS3 currencies, I have a comparison here between July 2017 and May 2018 (before Orrian Pearls were added): > 60.5% / 63.5% > 54.5% / 58% > 52.5% / 57.5% > 52% / 56.5% > 51.5% / 55% > 0% / 50.5% > > A downward trend in participation of Raids shouldn't be seen outside a downward trend for the game as a whole. > > Edit: important thing to note, Halls of Chains was released together with the Domain of Istan. Global game stats (trade contracts and kralkatite ore) went from 70% to 45.5%, a very high 24.5% reduction between the release of Path of Fire and the introduction of Episode 1. Meaning Hall of Chains had a much reduced playerbase to work with. A reduction that didn't have anything to do with Raids, but with the game as a whole. Which is unfortunate because it’s not like the pool of people is huge for Raids to begin with. Hopefully the new people that have joined the game can start filling these gaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptAurellian.9537 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > Find that very interesting is it the difficulty of wing 5 or a matter of demographics? > > I think the difficulty is important, especially for the Soulless Horror which is a very weird designed boss that gets easier and easier the more you progress. At the end it's really stupidly easy compared to how it starts, which goes backwards to how Raid encounters should be. Maybe someone misunderstood the mechanics or something? But I doubt it was on purpose. Every other Raid boss gets progressively harder except for this one. While I agree that SH difficulty is probably a big factor in the drop between earlier raids and W5, I disagree with regard to SH's difficulty curve. There's not a lot of new stuff below 90%, but I never had the feeling that it becomes easier into the fight. It stays more or less the same and one mistake with the golem hurts you more when the platform is smaller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > Which is unfortunate because it’s not like the pool of people is huge for Raids to begin with. Hopefully the new people that have joined the game can start filling these gaps. The player pool for Raids is always relevant to the pool of total available players. As the grand total is decreasing, shown by the downward trend of currencies, so does the pool of Raids. I think many believe episode 3 to be a triple release and have a new map, new fractal and new raid, so bring more players back to the game. We'll see how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 > @"CptAurellian.9537" said: > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > Find that very interesting is it the difficulty of wing 5 or a matter of demographics? > > > > I think the difficulty is important, especially for the Soulless Horror which is a very weird designed boss that gets easier and easier the more you progress. At the end it's really stupidly easy compared to how it starts, which goes backwards to how Raid encounters should be. Maybe someone misunderstood the mechanics or something? But I doubt it was on purpose. Every other Raid boss gets progressively harder except for this one. > While I agree that SH difficulty is probably a big factor in the drop between earlier raids and W5, I disagree with regard to SH's difficulty curve. There's not a lot of new stuff below 90%, but I never had the feeling that it becomes easier into the fight. It stays more or less the same and one mistake with the golem hurts you more when the platform is smaller. > I meant mostly about the walls. As the platform you fight on decreases, the distance you have to cover to reach a wall gap decreases as well, because overall the entire wall is much smaller, but the gap size stays the same. This brings this weird dynamic to the fight that near the end you don't even have to move to avoid the wall, or move very little. I just find the wall much harder to deal with when the fight is fresh, and much easier when it's near the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutchRiders.2871 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 Weird I can join pugs just fine and clear raids with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > According to GW2 Efficiency 30% of people have done Vale Guardian. 7% Have done Soulless Horror. > > To be more specific: > > Vale Guardian: 30% or 52,277 players > > Slothasor: 17.5% or 30,619 players > > Escort: 29.6% or 47,095 players > > Cairn: 20.5% or 35,900 players > > Soulless Horror: 7.4% or 12,946 players > > > > Also, according to gw2efficiency there is 22% less players owning Path of Fire (71.7%) than Heart of Thorns (93.5%) The completion percentages are out of the 100% of gw2efficiency accounts, not only from eligible players. For some reason the percentages of those that have the achievements do not match the number of players that have each expansion (don't know how gw2eff works). Total number of players is 195262, but in the achievement page they compare with 174,935 I don't know they get that number. > > According to the total stat page, 182,599 have Heart of Thorns and 140,111 have Path of Fire, which makes the actual percentages (when adjusted for eligibility) as follows: > > > > Vale Guardian: 28.6% > > Slothasor: 16.7% > > Escort: 25.7% > > Cairn: 19.6% > > Soulless Horror: 9.2% > > Find that very interesting is it the difficulty of wing 5 or a matter of demographics? Difficulty is obviously a factor, but not the only one. VG has the highest percentage, but is by no means easier than Cairn or Escort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > According to GW2 Efficiency 30% of people have done Vale Guardian. 7% Have done Soulless Horror. > > > To be more specific: > > > Vale Guardian: 30% or 52,277 players > > > Slothasor: 17.5% or 30,619 players > > > Escort: 29.6% or 47,095 players > > > Cairn: 20.5% or 35,900 players > > > Soulless Horror: 7.4% or 12,946 players > > > > > > Also, according to gw2efficiency there is 22% less players owning Path of Fire (71.7%) than Heart of Thorns (93.5%) The completion percentages are out of the 100% of gw2efficiency accounts, not only from eligible players. For some reason the percentages of those that have the achievements do not match the number of players that have each expansion (don't know how gw2eff works). Total number of players is 195262, but in the achievement page they compare with 174,935 I don't know they get that number. > > > According to the total stat page, 182,599 have Heart of Thorns and 140,111 have Path of Fire, which makes the actual percentages (when adjusted for eligibility) as follows: > > > > > > Vale Guardian: 28.6% > > > Slothasor: 16.7% > > > Escort: 25.7% > > > Cairn: 19.6% > > > Soulless Horror: 9.2% > > > > Find that very interesting is it the difficulty of wing 5 or a matter of demographics? > > Difficulty is obviously a factor, but not the only one. VG has the highest percentage, but is by no means easier than Cairn or Escort. Cairn is very interesting because Bastion was released with Episode 1 of LW3, by the time that happened a lot of the players that initially went into Heart of Thorns stopped playing. That's easy to verify using map currencies and see for example that Bloodstone Rubies are at 60-63% based on the time period. This means that the pool of players left playing the game when Bastion became available was much smaller than the pool available for Vale Guardian, which was released a month after the expansion hit and had a much larger playerbase. So Cairn's percentages versus the remaining playerbase might even be higher than Vale Guardian although that's impossible to verify with the data we have. It's very similar with Hall of Chains, although it has only 7.4% (or 9.2% adjusted for Path of Fire owners), remember that only 45.5% of the players have the currency of LW4 Episode 1 (Kralkatite), meaning a LOT of Path of Fire players stopped playing before Episode 1 was released, this obviously includes many Raiders too. So even that -small- 7.4% number for Soulless Horror is in reality a much larger percentage over the actual **remaining** playerbase of the game. We don't have defluorite crystal data, I hope gw2eff does add those, and at the same time add the next currency we'll get in Episode 3, just to see how many people are -still- around when the next Raid comes, so "Omg only a tiny 5% is Raiding, Raids are dead content" comments can be easily avoided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > According to GW2 Efficiency 30% of people have done Vale Guardian. 7% Have done Soulless Horror. > > And that’s just the kill, correct? Indeed. Unfortunately efficiency doesn't track individual kills, so we can't differentiate between people that killed boss once, and then stopped, and those that keep killing it (same problem with dungeons, by the way - efficiency doesn't track runs, only full dungeon completion) I'd say that there's another, more telling statistics on gw2eff - magnetites and gaeting crystals. 45% of gw2eff accounts has at least 1 magnetite, but only 9% has at least one gaeting crystal. For a 100, it's 24% and 5% (comparing much higher values obviously has less sense, because first 4 wings have been out far more, and there's more of them). So, it seems that while for 4 first wings people just moved to easier bosses of the next wing even if they didn't have previous wing harder bosses done, they move to wing 5 generally only afther they have done the harder bosses of first 4 wings. Even if we're talking only the 2 middle events of wing 5. And obviously noone _starts_ raiding at wing 5 (while there _were_ were people starting not at VG, but at escort or Cairn). It would be interesting if wing 6 was one of the easier ones. We could then see if it's the difficulty, or other things that are the more important factors here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > It would be interesting if wing 6 was one of the easier ones. We could then see if it's the difficulty, or other things that are the more important factors here. Well difficulty is a very important factor and it's rather obvious if you check poor Slothasor, it has the second lowest rates, only behind Soulless Horror. I doubt they will release a Wing that is all too easy, even if Wing 4 has 3 easy bosses, but there is still Deimos. If we check the actual completion of the Raid wings: Vale Guardian: 30% / Sabetha: 18.7% 11.3% difference Slothasor: 17.5% / Matthias: 15% 2.5% difference Escort: 29.6% / Xera: 12.6% 17% difference Cairn: 20.5% / Deimos: 12.8% 7.7% difference Soulless Horror: 7.4% / Dhuum: 4.8% 2.6% difference Wing 2 and Wing 5 are the most consistent Wings, with Wing 3 (no surprise with Escort being there) having the highest difference. Escort is the second highest, while Xera is the second to last in completion. I expect Wing 6 to be more like Wing 1, having easier first boss and harder last boss but not such a huge difference, or like Wing 5 but with lower overall difficulty. Same consistency, but higher numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eramonster.2718 Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > Agreed, that was a bad design decision for GW2, given how very pug-oriented this game is. > > Well to be perfectly honest they even said that they didn't *expect* their players to beat Raids (at least the hardest encounters) in pugs. > Everything mentioned in the OP, Elitism, Training, and Save Points do not apply to static groups (if they do, please leave your static group immediately) > One way to help is by making the game pug-friendly. However, another approach is to first try to make finding said static groups easier. I can think of a few solutions towards that goal: > > A) An in-game guild browser: obviously not only something for Raids, but would help the entire game, but it would certainly help Raids too > B ) Guild rewards for running Raids as guilds. Not raiding guilds that gather players from all over, but the other "normal" guilds getting rewarded for running Raids together. Something like guild missions but in Raids. I know you can get trophies to make decorations but that's hardly enough (you get those if you run with pugs). > C) In game guild tools like Calendars and Event sign up forms, so guilds can organize themselves without using external programs. Like the browser, this would help every guild, but more so guilds that need to organize their in-game activities better, including running Raids as a guild. > D) A way to share your entire build with others. Build templates is great, sharing them is even better. That way you can tell what others are running and give advice on what they should change (talking about guilds here, the effect on pugs is irrelevant, it could be from within the guild panel so as not to affect pugs at all) > > Just 4 things that can improve guild activities and guild content, all of them can make Raids more accessible without adding a single new line of content. The calender is a good idea (since it's a method I'm familiar with and currently using). Problem is you can provide the tools but in the end, it depends on the user to utilize it. Take method (B), can easily be criticised as exclusive just like legendary armors instead of incentive. (D) is similar to what qt, metabattle, snowcrows etc are doing, sharing info or knowledge(even welcome and open for feedbacks since it's in the open) yet...you know the rest of the story. There is no perfect system or none that I known of, as it requires a perfect human to make and utilize one. Everyone raids for a reason, any incentive and additional rewards like legendary will be a motivation bonus thus welcomed. If one doesn't like raid feature, then the content just ain't them. (If you don't like the job, it's pointless to find excuses e.g. salary to force/try to convince yourself (not going to last even if you got the offer). One may like and plays football but dislike or clueless to 'ping pong' although both is sports; and yet they find it fine(?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > According to GW2 Efficiency 30% of people have done Vale Guardian. 7% Have done Soulless Horror. > > > To be more specific: > > > Vale Guardian: 30% or 52,277 players > > > Slothasor: 17.5% or 30,619 players > > > Escort: 29.6% or 47,095 players > > > Cairn: 20.5% or 35,900 players > > > Soulless Horror: 7.4% or 12,946 players > > > > > > Also, according to gw2efficiency there is 22% less players owning Path of Fire (71.7%) than Heart of Thorns (93.5%) The completion percentages are out of the 100% of gw2efficiency accounts, not only from eligible players. For some reason the percentages of those that have the achievements do not match the number of players that have each expansion (don't know how gw2eff works). Total number of players is 195262, but in the achievement page they compare with 174,935 I don't know they get that number. > > > According to the total stat page, 182,599 have Heart of Thorns and 140,111 have Path of Fire, which makes the actual percentages (when adjusted for eligibility) as follows: > > > > > > Vale Guardian: 28.6% > > > Slothasor: 16.7% > > > Escort: 25.7% > > > Cairn: 19.6% > > > Soulless Horror: 9.2% > > > > Find that very interesting is it the difficulty of wing 5 or a matter of demographics? > > Difficulty is obviously a factor, but not the only one. VG has the highest percentage, but is by no means easier than Cairn or Escort. Part of the problem is that while regular raiders are completely fine with the idea of "just do whichever raid bosses work for you," that's not how most casual players would look at the situation, and certainly not how the raids were *designed* to be played. I'm not saying "you're doing it wrong," if it works for you, it works for you, but if ANet had *intended* players to skip and choose raid bosses then you wouldn't need to unlock them each week, a new player could just pick "Sabetha" off a list and just jump right in. But no, they designed them in a specific order, with a storyline that carries through, and to a lot of players, particularly those that aren't serious raiders, they *want* to do them in the order presented, 1, 2, 3. So the reason that a lot more people do VG than others, is because they went from VG to Gorseval, failed too often, and quit completely, without even *considering* skipping to much later bosses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > According to GW2 Efficiency 30% of people have done Vale Guardian. 7% Have done Soulless Horror. > > > > To be more specific: > > > > Vale Guardian: 30% or 52,277 players > > > > Slothasor: 17.5% or 30,619 players > > > > Escort: 29.6% or 47,095 players > > > > Cairn: 20.5% or 35,900 players > > > > Soulless Horror: 7.4% or 12,946 players > > > > > > > > Also, according to gw2efficiency there is 22% less players owning Path of Fire (71.7%) than Heart of Thorns (93.5%) The completion percentages are out of the 100% of gw2efficiency accounts, not only from eligible players. For some reason the percentages of those that have the achievements do not match the number of players that have each expansion (don't know how gw2eff works). Total number of players is 195262, but in the achievement page they compare with 174,935 I don't know they get that number. > > > > According to the total stat page, 182,599 have Heart of Thorns and 140,111 have Path of Fire, which makes the actual percentages (when adjusted for eligibility) as follows: > > > > > > > > Vale Guardian: 28.6% > > > > Slothasor: 16.7% > > > > Escort: 25.7% > > > > Cairn: 19.6% > > > > Soulless Horror: 9.2% > > > > > > Find that very interesting is it the difficulty of wing 5 or a matter of demographics? > > > > Difficulty is obviously a factor, but not the only one. VG has the highest percentage, but is by no means easier than Cairn or Escort. > > Part of the problem is that while regular raiders are completely fine with the idea of "just do whichever raid bosses work for you," that's not how most casual players would look at the situation, and certainly not how the raids were *designed* to be played. I'm not saying "you're doing it wrong," if it works for you, it works for you, but if ANet had *intended* players to skip and choose raid bosses then you wouldn't need to unlock them each week, a new player could just pick "Sabetha" off a list and just jump right in. But no, they designed them in a specific order, with a storyline that carries through, and to a lot of players, particularly those that aren't serious raiders, they *want* to do them in the order presented, 1, 2, 3. So the reason that a lot more people do VG than others, is because they went from VG to Gorseval, failed too often, and quit completely, without even *considering* skipping to much later bosses. > > The intent was obviously to be played in order, by players who enjoy challenging content. The casual players were never much of a consideration, because they were never target audience for this content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > According to GW2 Efficiency 30% of people have done Vale Guardian. 7% Have done Soulless Horror. > > > > > To be more specific: > > > > > Vale Guardian: 30% or 52,277 players > > > > > Slothasor: 17.5% or 30,619 players > > > > > Escort: 29.6% or 47,095 players > > > > > Cairn: 20.5% or 35,900 players > > > > > Soulless Horror: 7.4% or 12,946 players > > > > > > > > > > Also, according to gw2efficiency there is 22% less players owning Path of Fire (71.7%) than Heart of Thorns (93.5%) The completion percentages are out of the 100% of gw2efficiency accounts, not only from eligible players. For some reason the percentages of those that have the achievements do not match the number of players that have each expansion (don't know how gw2eff works). Total number of players is 195262, but in the achievement page they compare with 174,935 I don't know they get that number. > > > > > According to the total stat page, 182,599 have Heart of Thorns and 140,111 have Path of Fire, which makes the actual percentages (when adjusted for eligibility) as follows: > > > > > > > > > > Vale Guardian: 28.6% > > > > > Slothasor: 16.7% > > > > > Escort: 25.7% > > > > > Cairn: 19.6% > > > > > Soulless Horror: 9.2% > > > > > > > > Find that very interesting is it the difficulty of wing 5 or a matter of demographics? > > > > > > Difficulty is obviously a factor, but not the only one. VG has the highest percentage, but is by no means easier than Cairn or Escort. > > > > Part of the problem is that while regular raiders are completely fine with the idea of "just do whichever raid bosses work for you," that's not how most casual players would look at the situation, and certainly not how the raids were *designed* to be played. I'm not saying "you're doing it wrong," if it works for you, it works for you, but if ANet had *intended* players to skip and choose raid bosses then you wouldn't need to unlock them each week, a new player could just pick "Sabetha" off a list and just jump right in. But no, they designed them in a specific order, with a storyline that carries through, and to a lot of players, particularly those that aren't serious raiders, they *want* to do them in the order presented, 1, 2, 3. So the reason that a lot more people do VG than others, is because they went from VG to Gorseval, failed too often, and quit completely, without even *considering* skipping to much later bosses. > > > > > > The intent was obviously to be played in order, by players who enjoy challenging content. The casual players were never much of a consideration, because they were never target audience for this content. You can't design an entire mode of the game to *not* be played by the overwhelming majority of players, particularly if there is story and rewards locked behind it (and *both* are true of GW2 raids). The ONLY way that the existing raids could **possibly** get away with being "challenging content for players who want challenging content," would be if A. there were some *other* way that every *other* player in the game could experience the story and work toward the rewards, some sort of "less challenging" variation on the content, or B. The existing raids had zero story content whatsoever (like Queen's Gauntlet encounters), and *zero* rewards that were exclusive to the mode. You can't eat your cake and have it too. If you want to have elements that would attract non-raiders to the mode, then you have to accept that non-raiders will want into the mode, and want to change it to their interests, and there are more of them than there are of you, so work out *how* you'd like to share, rather than pondering whether you *should.* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said: > > > > > > > According to GW2 Efficiency 30% of people have done Vale Guardian. 7% Have done Soulless Horror. > > > > > > To be more specific: > > > > > > Vale Guardian: 30% or 52,277 players > > > > > > Slothasor: 17.5% or 30,619 players > > > > > > Escort: 29.6% or 47,095 players > > > > > > Cairn: 20.5% or 35,900 players > > > > > > Soulless Horror: 7.4% or 12,946 players > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, according to gw2efficiency there is 22% less players owning Path of Fire (71.7%) than Heart of Thorns (93.5%) The completion percentages are out of the 100% of gw2efficiency accounts, not only from eligible players. For some reason the percentages of those that have the achievements do not match the number of players that have each expansion (don't know how gw2eff works). Total number of players is 195262, but in the achievement page they compare with 174,935 I don't know they get that number. > > > > > > According to the total stat page, 182,599 have Heart of Thorns and 140,111 have Path of Fire, which makes the actual percentages (when adjusted for eligibility) as follows: > > > > > > > > > > > > Vale Guardian: 28.6% > > > > > > Slothasor: 16.7% > > > > > > Escort: 25.7% > > > > > > Cairn: 19.6% > > > > > > Soulless Horror: 9.2% > > > > > > > > > > Find that very interesting is it the difficulty of wing 5 or a matter of demographics? > > > > > > > > Difficulty is obviously a factor, but not the only one. VG has the highest percentage, but is by no means easier than Cairn or Escort. > > > > > > Part of the problem is that while regular raiders are completely fine with the idea of "just do whichever raid bosses work for you," that's not how most casual players would look at the situation, and certainly not how the raids were *designed* to be played. I'm not saying "you're doing it wrong," if it works for you, it works for you, but if ANet had *intended* players to skip and choose raid bosses then you wouldn't need to unlock them each week, a new player could just pick "Sabetha" off a list and just jump right in. But no, they designed them in a specific order, with a storyline that carries through, and to a lot of players, particularly those that aren't serious raiders, they *want* to do them in the order presented, 1, 2, 3. So the reason that a lot more people do VG than others, is because they went from VG to Gorseval, failed too often, and quit completely, without even *considering* skipping to much later bosses. > > > > > > > > > > The intent was obviously to be played in order, by players who enjoy challenging content. The casual players were never much of a consideration, because they were never target audience for this content. > > You can't design an entire mode of the game to *not* be played by the overwhelming majority of players, particularly if there is story and rewards locked behind it (and *both* are true of GW2 raids). Of course you can. It's called "being diverse". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > You can't design an entire mode of the game to *not* be played by the overwhelming majority of players You can't, maybe. But tell this to literally any MMO or their dev teams and you'll be laughed right out of the discussion. To further prove this find me any MMO in the last 30 years that has players that play 100% of all content released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > Of course you can. It's called "being diverse". Diverse is *allowing* various people to play different modes, not designing the mode to be deliberately exclusive. > @"TexZero.7910" said: > To further prove this find me any MMO in the last 30 years that has players that play 100% of all content released. The question is not whether a given player *does* play *every* element of the game, the question is rather *can* they play *any* element of the game. Most players don't have time to do *everything* that's available, but the things that do catch their interest should be accessible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > Diverse is *allowing* various people to play different modes, not designing the mode to be deliberately exclusive. You got it wrong. Diverse is having content for lots of different kinds of players, not allowing various people to play different modes. Diverse is having content for... diverse types of players. It's in the meaning of the word: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/diverse > including many different types of people or things > varied or different But what does any of this have to do with the topic of the thread? You have another thread to talk about your ideal game, why come and derail this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now