Tyson.5160 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"MashMash.1645" said: > Raids are a curious thing in GW2. They are a tacit admission that the game as originally envisioned was a failure. > > This game was never going to have raids, and be 'like other MMO's' . Not another wow clone. We all recall the manifesto, and colin , etc, etc. This game was going to be about events and dynamic events and dungeons and story, and you could play any class you like and all would be even - flat progression - and we could all be happy clappy. (lets just ignore elite spec power creep shall we?) > > But that was a failure. > > Anet needed to make money, and make a profit. > > So now we have the current gemstore and raids. > > Familiar, reliable, known. A method that works (as much as we all might roll our eyes). They tried and failed. And that's OK - because that's how you learn I suppose. > > (Disclaimer: I raid so have no real issue with it, but sympathize. The same issues are ones I've seen a hundred times before. Even before raids started I knew they would come and here we are. *shrug*) I think Anet makes money off of mount skins, not sure how they make money on raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeknar.6184 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"nia.4725" said: > > @"Jeknar.6184" said: > > > @"nia.4725" said: > > > > @"Jeknar.6184" said: > > > > 1 - Just fake your LI/KP with the [Chat Code Generator](http://gw2tool.net/en/tools/chatcode/ "Chat Code Generator"). That's what I do most of the time as I always deposit my decorations on the guild bank. But at least have a proper understanding of the fights you are about to do. > > > > > > > > 2 - I'm pretty sure the training runs are there for people that want to do that: _Training_... I'm by no means joining a W5 FC that require EXP/LI/KP when I have absolutely not experienced anything other than wiping horribly on Soulless Horror. > > > > > > > > 3 - Ah, so you would prefer that if you only missed the last boss on your wing for that day, you would have to re-do the whole wing to try it again without receiving rewards from the first bosses since they are only weekly? Many other MMO's that have raid content do this. I'm not sure why you are bothered with it tho. > > > > > > Here you have an example of why experienced raiders end up asking for a lot of KP and LIs: fakers. > > > > And how does that help them? Unless they ask to show a mini (That people may not have dropped nor want to buy) or a title (that not every encounter have) there is no reliable KP to be shown that cannot be faked. All they are doing is making it harder for genuine people with low LI to get in raid groups. > > > > I have done all fights except for W5 (which I don't care about nor I ever try to pug), but I'm forced to fake LI/KP's to get in the groups because most of the time people are asking 150-200 LI to do even simple fights like Vale Guardian (:omegalul:). But I can carry my own weight once I'm there, so it's a Win/Win situation for both parts. If I were to show legit LI's or KP's, I would not get a group and that group would still be sitting on LFG waiting a 10th player that can show their "rerquirements". > > Yeah, omegalul all you want but even those squads get players who can't do things and mess up constantly. > > Ofc everything can be faked but you can get caught. Honestly I don't care if you can pull your own weight. You could be the leader of Snowcrows, idc, if you fake things you're out of the squad. An experienced raider who places a high LI lfg wants high LI players, period. If you don't have the requirements you should not join. Have some honesty and fair play. > > There are a lot of people who think like this. I have accepted a 40li chrono in a 250li lfg, because he was honest and polite. But I will never accept a faker. Well, you first line just strenghten my point: Why set the bar so high, if people will just still screw it up anyway? Like I said, it only exclude what can be a competent player that wasn't given a chance due having low ammounts of LI. Now, you say a lot of people would problably accept someone under the requirement just for them being honest, but my experiences were so much different that I had resort to faking because of that... Most raids would just be like "no ty" or simply kick the moment I said I don't keep my KP's clogging my inventory. But yeah, there was this one time a guy accepted me on W3, but said "Ok, we'll do Escort with you but not KC and further" and I got kicked before KC without even being given a chance to go further. Good stuff right there... Honestity will only take one so far I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuddy.6247 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 I don't consider raids to be badly designed. I've only finished the first two and was carried through BotP (Saul's my spirit animal, I made my friend carry me and I got Saul's staff as a drop on the first run - it was meant to be), but I'd say if you find problems with raids - the issue is likely you have different priorities. There's no shame in that - establishing priorities is an important part of finding satisfaction in your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeknar.6184 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"Jojo.6140" said: > > @"Jeknar.6184" said: > > I have done all fights except for W5 (which I don't care about nor I ever try to pug), but I'm forced to fake LI/KP's to get in the groups because most of the time people are asking 150-200 LI to do even simple fights like Vale Guardian (:omegalul:). But I can carry my own weight once I'm there, so it's a Win/Win situation for both parts. If I were to show legit LI's or KP's, I would not get a group and that group would still be sitting on LFG waiting a 10th player that can show their "rerquirements". > > I dont understand why you would consider 150-200 LI a high amount? The max LI you can have is well over 1.4k already afaik, and you can get much more LI per week now that we already have 5 wings. A 150 LI requirement just shows that you are already doing raids for a few months. Maybe 150 isn't high for people who been raiding since HoT, but what about people who decided to try them later on? I currently have only 43LI but I'm pretty sure I can handle my own in anywhere between W1-4 (Except maybe for Xera which I only did twice) and I can even play multiple professions. Also, there are 17 encounters currently, which mean that it would take at least 9 weeks of full runs for a new raider to reach 150LI. That if he can get into a raid in the first place because, you know, "requirements"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Turin.6921" said: > > You do not have a mirror in your house do you? > > Ya you know.. because every week a new topic pops up about how us Open World players are such a Toxic community. > > Yup.. we must be the toxic ones. Well I can recall the meta toxicity that people place banners or merchants ontop of every chest in existance. How about the ones that guild spawn teq 30 mins before its supposed to spawn so it wont spawn on time in that map making the whole event a possible failiure due to map not having enough people or to unorganized? Heard about a new one pretty recently placing down 20 cheap magic find food trays at tripple wurn so commanders couldent place down their own. So yea open world players got just as many toxic apples just that they arent given the tools to show themselfs and are probabely more spread out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"Linken.6345" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Turin.6921" said: > > > You do not have a mirror in your house do you? > > > > Ya you know.. because every week a new topic pops up about how us Open World players are such a Toxic community. > > > > Yup.. we must be the toxic ones. > > Well I can recall the meta toxicity that people place banners or merchants ontop of every chest in existance. > How about the ones that guild spawn teq 30 mins before its supposed to spawn so it wont spawn on time in that map making the whole event a possible failiure due to map not having enough people or to unorganized? > Heard about a new one pretty recently placing down 20 cheap magic find food trays at tripple wurn so commanders couldent place down their own. > So yea open world players got just as many toxic apples just that they arent given the tools to show themselfs and are probabely more spread out. The banner joke went out years ago with autoloot mastery and that was a joke., not to be confused with antics of Toxic Elitist, as there is no joke in how harshly they belittle people. As for the other stuff, I have Never even heard of most of this.. much less seen any of it... maybe you deal with it, because you are in a raid guild and it's what your like minded comrades act like at open world events? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Now that I think about it, I'd believe that Raiders would pull that kind of stuff at World Boss events, given how much contempt they express for said events and the people that often enjoy them, so, I'd totally believe it's just their toxic nature over flowing into other parts of the game, or anywhere they go in general in GW2 for that matter. I mean lets be real, people don't suddenly stop being Toxic or Elitist because they entered a new zone, it's a character trait, it does not change by the events they do. Funny how that works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miellyn.6847 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > Have you considered that maybe raids just aren't for you? > > > > > > > > Have you considered that Raids just don't belong in a game like GW2 ? > > > > > > If dungeons hadn't failed at what they were supposed to be, the penultimate challenge for pve, then I'd be inclined to ageee with you. > > > > They were the penultimate challenge for PvE, and succeeded at that, it's just that *some* players wanted even *more* challenge. That doesn't mean that they were right. > > This.. Explorer Dungeons were a grand challenge when I started playing, and so much so.. outside static groups, no one wanted to do Araha, so they really did succeed at their goal with that. > > Fractals were a failure that needed to be revised and toned down a huge amount, and then toned up and then toned down.. and.. yah.. still kinda messed up to be honest. > > Why they went and put in 10 person raids, when Dungeons were still doing pretty good and Fractals were always in need of fine tuning.. is beyond me. > > It has and will continue to hurt them tho, and to the new people here from Bless.. good luck with the raids. Are we playing the same game? Dungeons were still doing good? They ware abaddoned 2 years before raids were added. The only reason they were semi-alive were their liquid rewards. They died within days after the 'nerf'. Dungeons were a challenge because people were unfamiliar with the game systems. The challenge didn't last long. People get better at games you know? Fractals got revisited to turn them into more casual friendly, smaller sized bites. It didn't hurt them. Most players just don't care about them. Just like they don't care about fractals and didn't care about dungeons. > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"MashMash.1645" said: > > Raids are a curious thing in GW2. They are a tacit admission that the game as originally envisioned was a failure. > > > > This game was never going to have raids, and be 'like other MMO's' . Not another wow clone. We all recall the manifesto, and colin , etc, etc. This game was going to be about events and dynamic events and dungeons and story, and you could play any class you like and all would be even - flat progression - and we could all be happy clappy. (lets just ignore elite spec power creep shall we?) > > > > But that was a failure. > > > > Anet needed to make money, and make a profit. > > > > So now we have the current gemstore and raids. > > > > Familiar, reliable, known. A method that works (as much as we all might roll our eyes). They tried and failed. And that's OK - because that's how you learn I suppose. > > > > (Disclaimer: I raid so have no real issue with it, but sympathize. The same issues are ones I've seen a hundred times before. Even before raids started I knew they would come and here we are. *shrug*) > > I think Anet makes money off of mount skins, not sure how they make money on raids. People play the game, stay longer because of raids and buy things from the game store. Really easy stuff. But long term goals are out in the current gaming generation. Instant gratification is important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > Now that I think about it, I'd believe that Raiders would pull that kind of stuff at World Boss events, given how much contempt they express for said events and the people that often enjoy them, so, I'd totally believe it's just their toxic nature over flowing into other parts of the game, or anywhere they go in general in GW2 for that matter. I mean lets be real, people don't suddenly stop being Toxic or Elitist because they entered a new zone, it's a character trait, it does not change by the events they do. > > Funny how that works. When have raiders expressed contempt for world bosses or any other content? They just dont want their content to be as easy to complete sure but is that contempt? ( and hey it was advertised as the ultimate pve challenge after all not just show up wack a mole the boss and earn loot. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > Have you considered that maybe raids just aren't for you? > > > > > > > > > > Have you considered that Raids just don't belong in a game like GW2 ? > > > > > > > > If dungeons hadn't failed at what they were supposed to be, the penultimate challenge for pve, then I'd be inclined to ageee with you. > > > > > > They were the penultimate challenge for PvE, and succeeded at that, it's just that *some* players wanted even *more* challenge. That doesn't mean that they were right. > > > > This.. Explorer Dungeons were a grand challenge when I started playing, and so much so.. outside static groups, no one wanted to do Araha, so they really did succeed at their goal with that. > > > > Fractals were a failure that needed to be revised and toned down a huge amount, and then toned up and then toned down.. and.. yah.. still kinda messed up to be honest. > > > > Why they went and put in 10 person raids, when Dungeons were still doing pretty good and Fractals were always in need of fine tuning.. is beyond me. > > > > It has and will continue to hurt them tho, and to the new people here from Bless.. good luck with the raids. > > Are we playing the same game? Dungeons were still doing good? They ware abaddoned 2 years before raids were added. The only reason they were semi-alive were their liquid rewards. They died within days after the 'nerf'. > > Dungeons were a challenge because people were unfamiliar with the game systems. The challenge didn't last long. People get better at games you know? > Fractals got revisited to turn them into more casual friendly, smaller sized bites. > > It didn't hurt them. Most players just don't care about them. Just like they don't care about fractals and didn't care about dungeons. > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"MashMash.1645" said: > > > Raids are a curious thing in GW2. They are a tacit admission that the game as originally envisioned was a failure. > > > > > > This game was never going to have raids, and be 'like other MMO's' . Not another wow clone. We all recall the manifesto, and colin , etc, etc. This game was going to be about events and dynamic events and dungeons and story, and you could play any class you like and all would be even - flat progression - and we could all be happy clappy. (lets just ignore elite spec power creep shall we?) > > > > > > But that was a failure. > > > > > > Anet needed to make money, and make a profit. > > > > > > So now we have the current gemstore and raids. > > > > > > Familiar, reliable, known. A method that works (as much as we all might roll our eyes). They tried and failed. And that's OK - because that's how you learn I suppose. > > > > > > (Disclaimer: I raid so have no real issue with it, but sympathize. The same issues are ones I've seen a hundred times before. Even before raids started I knew they would come and here we are. *shrug*) > > > > I think Anet makes money off of mount skins, not sure how they make money on raids. > > People play the game, stay longer because of raids and buy things from the game store. Really easy stuff. > But long term goals are out in the current gaming generation. Instant gratification is important. If this were true Miellyn, then Anet would push Raids harder because it made them money and not have it reserved for a minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > Are we playing the same game? Dungeons were still doing good? They ware abaddoned 2 years before raids were added. The only reason they were semi-alive were their liquid rewards. They died within days after the 'nerf'. No content lasts forever. People get bored of doing the same old thing over and over, no matter how well designed it may be. Dungeons died when ANet stopped changing them, but the *concept* of them was always fine. Of course people always preferred open world to instanced content, and while more people raid than play dungeons *today,* **far** fewer people raid *today* than used to dungeon when dungeons were in their prime. By that measure, dungeons were far more successful content than raids are. >People play the game, stay longer because of raids and buy things from the game store. Really easy stuff. >But long term goals are out in the current gaming generation. Instant gratification is important. Nobody has a problem with long term goals, least of all myself. The important factor, however, is that the path to those goals be a reasonable one, that each *step* of the path is within reason. You give me a 1000ft high staircase to climb, I'll do it. You give me a 100ft staircase to climb where each step is 4ft tall, I probably won't bother. The problem with raids *is not and has never been* that it's not "instant gratification" enough, it's that the type of content it represents is not the content that a lot of players want to engage in. Also, it's worth noting that several raiders in these threads have reported that they don't even *have* many of the mounts and do not care about the ones they have enough to buy skins for them, so if mount skins *are* ANet's new cashflow method, then raiders likely aren't participating heavily in it. They would be *less* valuable customers. > @"Linken.6345" said: >When have raiders expressed contempt for world bosses or any other content? *Constantly.* The prevailing view among raiders around here is that all content outside raids is "trash for babies," and even participating in such content for *years* could *never* add up to the worth of completing a single raid encounter. That may be a *slight* exaggeration, but not *remotely* as far off as it should be. >They just dont want their content to be as easy to complete sure but is that contempt? Nobody is pressing hard for raids to be nerfed in any way. The proposals on the table are for an *alternative* option to be provided for those that *want* to play an easier version. Raiders would not be impacted by this in the slightest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailios.7518 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > Are we playing the same game? Dungeons were still doing good? They ware abaddoned 2 years before raids were added. The only reason they were semi-alive were their liquid rewards. They died within days after the 'nerf'. > > Of course people always preferred open world to instanced content, and while more people raid than play dungeons *today,* **far** fewer people raid *today* than used to dungeon when dungeons were in their prime. By that measure, dungeons were far more successful content than raids are. Bad example. You can't compare the number of people playing dungeons in the early days of gw2 to the number of people playing raids today. GW2 had much more people playing the game in 2012/2013, because that's when it launched. Meaning not only were dungeons in its prime like you say, but the game in general was in its prime. The games overall population had dropped by then (to a steady number). Not to mention that the population we have now is split between more content to choose from and that dungeons are 5 man and raids are 10 man. > > Nobody is pressing hard for raids to be nerfed in any way. The proposals on the table are for an *alternative* option to be provided for those that *want* to play an easier version. Raiders would not be impacted by this in the slightest. Fractals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"Matiole.6857" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > Are we playing the same game? Dungeons were still doing good? They ware abaddoned 2 years before raids were added. The only reason they were semi-alive were their liquid rewards. They died within days after the 'nerf'. > > > > Of course people always preferred open world to instanced content, and while more people raid than play dungeons *today,* **far** fewer people raid *today* than used to dungeon when dungeons were in their prime. By that measure, dungeons were far more successful content than raids are. > > Bad example. You can't compare the number of people playing dungeons in the early days of gw2 to the number of people playing raids today. GW2 had much more people playing the game in 2012/2013, because that's when it launched. The games overall population had dropped by then (to a steady number). Not to mention that the population we have now is split between more content to choose from and that dungeons are 5 man and raids are 10 man. > > > > > Nobody is pressing hard for raids to be nerfed in any way. The proposals on the table are for an *alternative* option to be provided for those that *want* to play an easier version. Raiders would not be impacted by this in the slightest. > > Fractals. > I mean if you want them to put the raid wings into fractals, I guess that would work, make it 5 man etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"Linken.6345" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > Now that I think about it, I'd believe that Raiders would pull that kind of stuff at World Boss events, given how much contempt they express for said events and the people that often enjoy them, so, I'd totally believe it's just their toxic nature over flowing into other parts of the game, or anywhere they go in general in GW2 for that matter. I mean lets be real, people don't suddenly stop being Toxic or Elitist because they entered a new zone, it's a character trait, it does not change by the events they do. > > > > Funny how that works. > > When have raiders expressed contempt for world bosses or any other content? I can link you a 70+ page topic that is riddled with it.. > They just dont want their content to be as easy to complete sure but is that contempt? ( and hey it was advertised as the ultimate pve challenge after all not just show up wack a mole the boss and earn loot. ) And this is nothing but contempt.. Hum.. so.. I guess.. right here right now.. with this post.. and many before it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailios.7518 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"Matiole.6857" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > > Are we playing the same game? Dungeons were still doing good? They ware abaddoned 2 years before raids were added. The only reason they were semi-alive were their liquid rewards. They died within days after the 'nerf'. > > > > > > Of course people always preferred open world to instanced content, and while more people raid than play dungeons *today,* **far** fewer people raid *today* than used to dungeon when dungeons were in their prime. By that measure, dungeons were far more successful content than raids are. > > > > Bad example. You can't compare the number of people playing dungeons in the early days of gw2 to the number of people playing raids today. GW2 had much more people playing the game in 2012/2013, because that's when it launched. The games overall population had dropped by then (to a steady number). Not to mention that the population we have now is split between more content to choose from and that dungeons are 5 man and raids are 10 man. > > > > > > > > Nobody is pressing hard for raids to be nerfed in any way. The proposals on the table are for an *alternative* option to be provided for those that *want* to play an easier version. Raiders would not be impacted by this in the slightest. > > > > Fractals. > > > > I mean if you want them to put the raid wings into fractals, I guess that would work, make it 5 man etc. pfft why not, now we're thinking outside the box! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"Matiole.6857" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"Matiole.6857" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > > > Are we playing the same game? Dungeons were still doing good? They ware abaddoned 2 years before raids were added. The only reason they were semi-alive were their liquid rewards. They died within days after the 'nerf'. > > > > > > > > Of course people always preferred open world to instanced content, and while more people raid than play dungeons *today,* **far** fewer people raid *today* than used to dungeon when dungeons were in their prime. By that measure, dungeons were far more successful content than raids are. > > > > > > Bad example. You can't compare the number of people playing dungeons in the early days of gw2 to the number of people playing raids today. GW2 had much more people playing the game in 2012/2013, because that's when it launched. The games overall population had dropped by then (to a steady number). Not to mention that the population we have now is split between more content to choose from and that dungeons are 5 man and raids are 10 man. > > > > > > > > > > > Nobody is pressing hard for raids to be nerfed in any way. The proposals on the table are for an *alternative* option to be provided for those that *want* to play an easier version. Raiders would not be impacted by this in the slightest. > > > > > > Fractals. > > > > > > > I mean if you want them to put the raid wings into fractals, I guess that would work, make it 5 man etc. > > pfft why not, now we're thinking outside the box! That’s where I live friend, nothing can contain me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"Matiole.6857" said: >Bad example. You can't compare the number of people playing dungeons in the early days of gw2 to the number of people playing raids today. GW2 had much more people playing the game in 2012/2013, because that's when it launched. I think even adjusted for total player populations, more people were playing dungeons in their prime than raid today. While some of those players might not have been satisfied with the difficulty, there were also plenty who thought the difficulty was just fine, and have since not been doing any raiding at all *because* it's harder. >Fractals. There is not currently a Spirit Vale Fractal, and creating one would be far more work than any easy mode raid proposal. Fractals are not a meaningful suggestion in this context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > Have you considered that maybe raids just aren't for you? > > > > > > > > > > Have you considered that Raids just don't belong in a game like GW2 ? > > > > > > > > If dungeons hadn't failed at what they were supposed to be, the penultimate challenge for pve, then I'd be inclined to ageee with you. > > > > > > They were the penultimate challenge for PvE, and succeeded at that, it's just that *some* players wanted even *more* challenge. That doesn't mean that they were right. > > > > This.. Explorer Dungeons were a grand challenge when I started playing, and so much so.. outside static groups, no one wanted to do Araha, so they really did succeed at their goal with that. > > > > Fractals were a failure that needed to be revised and toned down a huge amount, and then toned up and then toned down.. and.. yah.. still kinda messed up to be honest. > > > > Why they went and put in 10 person raids, when Dungeons were still doing pretty good and Fractals were always in need of fine tuning.. is beyond me. > > > > It has and will continue to hurt them tho, and to the new people here from Bless.. good luck with the raids. > > Are we playing the same game? Dungeons were still doing good? They ware abaddoned 2 years before raids were added. The only reason they were semi-alive were their liquid rewards. They died within days after the 'nerf'. > > Dungeons were a challenge because people were unfamiliar with the game systems. The challenge didn't last long. People get better at games you know? And that is why Raids will fail just as swiftly, content is only a challenge till the trick to beating it is worked out, then it becomes an easy repeatable grind, making Raids today no Harder then Dungeons were at the start. Raids are only a challenge to people that don't know the mechanics, just like Dungeons. And Raids would die just as swiftly if their rewards got nerfed, So spare me the tripe. The only real difference is that Raids seems they have more toxic elitism attached to them.. because.. they are raids. It was a mistake to put them in, it was a mistake to try and revise the classes through elite spec to make a 'trinity' like game play.. all in all Raids are oa huge catastrophic failure of an addition to this game. The only good new is Bless had a really bad launch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miellyn.6847 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > > Have you considered that maybe raids just aren't for you? > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you considered that Raids just don't belong in a game like GW2 ? > > > > > > > > > > If dungeons hadn't failed at what they were supposed to be, the penultimate challenge for pve, then I'd be inclined to ageee with you. > > > > > > > > They were the penultimate challenge for PvE, and succeeded at that, it's just that *some* players wanted even *more* challenge. That doesn't mean that they were right. > > > > > > This.. Explorer Dungeons were a grand challenge when I started playing, and so much so.. outside static groups, no one wanted to do Araha, so they really did succeed at their goal with that. > > > > > > Fractals were a failure that needed to be revised and toned down a huge amount, and then toned up and then toned down.. and.. yah.. still kinda messed up to be honest. > > > > > > Why they went and put in 10 person raids, when Dungeons were still doing pretty good and Fractals were always in need of fine tuning.. is beyond me. > > > > > > It has and will continue to hurt them tho, and to the new people here from Bless.. good luck with the raids. > > > > Are we playing the same game? Dungeons were still doing good? They ware abaddoned 2 years before raids were added. The only reason they were semi-alive were their liquid rewards. They died within days after the 'nerf'. > > > > Dungeons were a challenge because people were unfamiliar with the game systems. The challenge didn't last long. People get better at games you know? > > And that is why Raids will fail just as swiftly, content is only a challenge till the trick to beating it is worked out, then it becomes an easy repeatable grind, making Raids today no Harder then Dungeons were at the start. Raids are only a challenge to people that don't know the mechanics, just like Dungeons. > > And Raids would die just as swiftly if their rewards got nerfed, So spare me the tripe. > > The only real difference is that Raids seems they have more toxic elitism attached to them.. because.. they are raids. > > It was a mistake to put them in, it was a mistake to try and revise the classes through elite spec to make a 'trinity' like game play.. all in all Raids are oa huge catastrophic failure of an addition to this game. > > The only good new is Bless had a really bad launch. There is a really important difference between raids and dungeons. In dungeons bosses died before they could use even a single skill (Lupi is an exception). In raids you still have to pay attention or you can wipe. They will never be as easy as dungeons were and they are a lot harder when you play them for the first time. Raids are already alive for longer than dungeons were. So much for dieing as swiftly as dungeons. Can you put off your rose-colored glasses? During the dungeon days elitism was way worse than it was ever in raids. Nothing changed. Supporter were already present before HoT (Mesmer says hi). You could also build dedicated healers (base elementalist was pretty good at it with blasts and waterfields). The only thing that got added was a dedicated aggro mechanic. Everything else was already present just not used as much as it is now. Bless launched as it was to be expected if you had followed it beforehand. Typical asian cash grab. > @"Tyson.5160" said: > If this were true Miellyn, then Anet would push Raids harder because it made them money and not have it reserved for a minority. No. This game doesn't revolve around instanced content. Why should they push something hard most people are not interested in anyway? Dungeons, fractals, raids. All niche content and was never for the majority in GW2. But you asked how raids earn money and this is the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"Miellyn.6847" said: >There is a really important difference between raids and dungeons. In dungeons bosses died before they could use even a single skill (Lupi is an exception). Really? I never did one of those. In my experience bosses would take at least a minute or two to die. Now, most of their skills were weak enough that they wouldn't likely *kill* you, but they would at least get them off. >Raids are already alive for longer than dungeons were. So much for dieing as swiftly as dungeons. Raids take longer to acquire the target rewards, and also they keep adding new ones over time, so there's always relatively new content to chase. All but one of the dungeon wings were around since launch. >Can you put off your rose-colored glasses? During the dungeon days elitism was way worse than it was ever in raids. Lol, no. You would get some elitist *groups,* sure, but they were the exception, not the norm, and you could always find a non-elitist group *and* succeed in the content with that group. In raids the two concepts are mutually exclusive. >No. This game doesn't revolve around instanced content. Why should they push something hard most people are not interested in anyway? Dungeons, fractals, raids. All niche content and was never for the majority in GW2. But you asked how raids earn money and this is the answer. If that's true, then why lock the most advanced armor in the game behind such a mode? Shouldn't it be someplace that most players would enjoy and are meant to explore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yann.1946 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Can we please stop with the ridiculous insults getting thrown around. People are not divided in raiders and non raiders. playing raids doesn't make you toxic and playing Open world player doesn't automatically make you a saint. there's a continuum on personalities in between and you can be both and neither. playing open world doesn't make someone suddenly bad at the game and playing raids doesn't make you good per se. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"yann.1946" said: >Can we please stop with the ridiculous insults getting thrown around. People are not divided in raiders and non raiders. It's shorthand. It's easier than saying "people who raid regularly" and "people who do not raid." Yes, there are some gray areas, and beliefs differ within those groups, but there are some relatively broad consensus within those bodies. >playing raids doesn't make you toxic and playing Open world player doesn't automatically make you a saint. True, but the point many of us were noting is that, for whatever reason, the people that tend to raid and self-identify as raiders *also* seems to correlate with toxic, "git gud" mentalities. It's like PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > > True, but the point many of us were noting is that, for whatever reason, the people that tend to raid and self-identify as raiders *also* seems to correlate with toxic, "git gud" mentalities. It's like PvP. > > I got PTSD from pvp after grinding out the pvp Legendary Armor. Here’s to better mental health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miellyn.6847 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Miellyn.6847" said: > >There is a really important difference between raids and dungeons. In dungeons bosses died before they could use even a single skill (Lupi is an exception). > > Really? I never did one of those. In my experience bosses would take at least a minute or two to die. Now, most of their skills were weak enough that they wouldn't likely *kill* you, but they would at least get them off. > > Your experience is not the same as for people raids are aimed for. And they killed everything in seconds without them responding. You are not the target audience for content you need to pay attention, we already had that. > >Raids are already alive for longer than dungeons were. So much for dieing as swiftly as dungeons. > > Raids take longer to acquire the target rewards, and also they keep adding new ones over time, so there's always relatively new content to chase. All but one of the dungeon wings were around since launch. > They are already longer alive than dungeons ever were with less content dungeons had to release. That tells you something about replayability of difficulty content. Many people play them since release and have all rewards. > >Can you put off your rose-colored glasses? During the dungeon days elitism was way worse than it was ever in raids. > > Lol, no. You would get some elitist *groups,* sure, but they were the exception, not the norm, and you could always find a non-elitist group *and* succeed in the content with that group. In raids the two concepts are mutually exclusive. > No they are not. Your average non-experienced group never completed Arah in the first time they tried it. People are not elitists because they don't want to play with you. > >No. This game doesn't revolve around instanced content. Why should they push something hard most people are not interested in anyway? Dungeons, fractals, raids. All niche content and was never for the majority in GW2. But you asked how raids earn money and this is the answer. > > If that's true, then why lock the most advanced armor in the game behind such a mode? Shouldn't it be someplace that most players would enjoy and are meant to explore? Legendary items are still niche (and also available in WvW and sPvP). We had this like 100 times already. Most people wouldn't aquire the skins even if they were in open world. You are not most players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotOverlyCheesy.9427 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Those raiders sure are toxic and elitist for providing their time to newcomers via training runs so everyone could be able to experience the content. /endsarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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