DeceiverX.8361 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 Going to need to agree with flow, here. Fear is extremely hard to balance with Expertise/condi duration existing in the game, too. Traited with added duration a 2s base fear bumps to 6s which is completely nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > Going to need to agree with flow, here. Fear is extremely hard to balance with Expertise/condi duration existing in the game, too. > > Traited with added duration a 2s base fear bumps to 6s which is completely nuts. So the improved duration via traits does not share the same 100% cap as the improved duration via expertise and sigils? So we basically get a 200% cap? Dumb... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yiksing.9432 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 I fully support this, i have always regard fear being the special thing given to necro but it wasn't that great nowadays due to resistance and what not but i still build my scourge around fear usage. This would be a nice addition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShark.9548 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > No other profession has access to it other than a warriors "Fear me" shout and a ranger pet active. > > > > > > Oh I guess to missed the thief. > > > > Oh i did sure....... did i mean although its not a wide acess like its not something they can just do at any point and any time. That said The fact that they can have stronger base duration fears at melee ranger than necro still baffles me. 2 of them per steal when traited :) > > > > And the most impressive fact behind that is that they steal this from the necromancer! Where do we hide this? they cut off a part of the filthy thing that the necro itself has become and when shown to the necro even he himself will run in fear you guys are funny, look at warrior horn and then ask again for a horn buff > @"Lily.1935" said: > Make it so that it removes Stability and resistance when you use the skill and we have a deal. and this would be outright op, probably one of the most ridiculous things ive read so far in thid forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > No other profession has access to it other than a warriors "Fear me" shout and a ranger pet active. > > > > > > > > Oh I guess to missed the thief. > > > > > > Oh i did sure....... did i mean although its not a wide acess like its not something they can just do at any point and any time. That said The fact that they can have stronger base duration fears at melee ranger than necro still baffles me. 2 of them per steal when traited :) > > > > > > > And the most impressive fact behind that is that they steal this from the necromancer! Where do we hide this? > > they cut off a part of the filthy thing that the necro itself has become and when shown to the necro even he himself will run in fear > > you guys are funny, look at warrior horn and then ask again for a horn buff To be honest im not sure it would be a buff. Fear has way more counters than daze it might actually end up being a nerf to be honest. > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > Make it so that it removes Stability and resistance when you use the skill and we have a deal. > > and this would be outright op, probably one of the most ridiculous things ive read so far in thid forum Other skills on other professions do this already to ensure that their effects has a higher chance of working rather than being ignored. So its not as ridiculous as it sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > And the most impressive fact behind that is that they steal this from the necromancer! Where do we hide this? > > they cut off a part of the filthy thing that the necro itself has become and when shown to the necro even he himself will run in fear > > you guys are funny, look at warrior horn and then ask again for a horn buff > Personnally I'd be against such change, there is no point, WH is already quite good as is. > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > To be honest im not sure it would be a buff. Fear has way more counters than daze it might actually end up being a nerf to be honest. It would be a buff, just the sheer amount of different conditions potentially added by such change would make this a buff. Unless you believe that a skill that currently only daze would be weaker than a skill that would be able to deal damage with _terror_, and then apply torment, chill, bleed, vuln is weaker. What counter daze counter fear, resistance here don't change much thing since you'll still add the other conditions that can potentially last longer than the resistance. It's not something new from me but I think the sheer number of traits that pile up conditions on top of conditions on the necromancer is becoming quite a huge issue for PvP balance while it's still quite useless for PvE. I wouldn't mind anet lacking imagination and making traits for the necromancer that are more in line with what other professions have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > And the most impressive fact behind that is that they steal this from the necromancer! Where do we hide this? > > > > they cut off a part of the filthy thing that the necro itself has become and when shown to the necro even he himself will run in fear > > > > you guys are funny, look at warrior horn and then ask again for a horn buff > > > > Personnally I'd be against such change, there is no point, WH is already quite good as is. > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > To be honest im not sure it would be a buff. Fear has way more counters than daze it might actually end up being a nerf to be honest. > > It would be a buff, just the sheer amount of different conditions potentially added by such change would make this a buff. Unless you believe that a skill that currently only daze would be weaker than a skill that would be able to deal damage with _terror_, and then apply torment, chill, bleed, vuln is weaker. What counter daze counter fear, resistance here don't change much thing since you'll still add the other conditions that can potentially last longer than the resistance. Debatable on a situation by situation bases. In a lot of cases the fear would never apply or be insta cleared / broken while the condition stacking is kind of a thing its not that major. The torment you mention is 3 seconds at best, vuln is a given its one of the conditions necro specializes in but there are not enough unique traits that play around / off it. The bleed and chill is reaper only which makes it not so bad as its not a whole profession wide buff. If i wanted a buff for WH it would just be a longer base Daze duration. > > It's not something new from me but I think the sheer number of traits that pile up conditions on top of conditions on the necromancer is becoming quite a huge issue for PvP balance while it's still quite useless for PvE. I wouldn't mind anet lacking imagination and making traits for the necromancer that are more in line with what other professions have. I kind of agree to some extents but only if they made it worth. Right now that seems to be necro's thing. I would love more traits that play off the amount of vuln you or your foe has as necro is pro at applying it in massive amounts even on core. I think focusing on perhaps Torment, chill, vuln, & fear. Would be the best 4 to focus on. But then that leaves the question to ping about things like Dhuumfire etc. And the random things that do poison as well. Edit: Perhaps bleed should be limited on necro torment makes more sense with conditions like chill and fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShark.9548 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > No other profession has access to it other than a warriors "Fear me" shout and a ranger pet active. > > > > > > > > > > Oh I guess to missed the thief. > > > > > > > > Oh i did sure....... did i mean although its not a wide acess like its not something they can just do at any point and any time. That said The fact that they can have stronger base duration fears at melee ranger than necro still baffles me. 2 of them per steal when traited :) > > > > > > > > > > And the most impressive fact behind that is that they steal this from the necromancer! Where do we hide this? > > > > they cut off a part of the filthy thing that the necro itself has become and when shown to the necro even he himself will run in fear > > > > you guys are funny, look at warrior horn and then ask again for a horn buff > > To be honest im not sure it would be a buff. Fear has way more counters than daze it might actually end up being a nerf to be honest. > > > > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > Make it so that it removes Stability and resistance when you use the skill and we have a deal. > > > > and this would be outright op, probably one of the most ridiculous things ive read so far in thid forum > > Other skills on other professions do this already to ensure that their effects has a higher chance of working rather than being ignored. So its not as ridiculous as it sounds. > > controlling where a person is walking is a HUGE advantage, making them walk off points/caps, into dmg, off cliffs, away from you, so they have to close gap again (instead of just walking next to you while being dazed) ontop of traits that profit from fear there is no skill or trait that specifically removes all stab and resistance, sure there is boonrip and corrupt, but none that targets directly those 2, that would be INSANE, believe me, it would be WAY stronger than you might believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > No other profession has access to it other than a warriors "Fear me" shout and a ranger pet active. > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh I guess to missed the thief. > > > > > > > > > > Oh i did sure....... did i mean although its not a wide acess like its not something they can just do at any point and any time. That said The fact that they can have stronger base duration fears at melee ranger than necro still baffles me. 2 of them per steal when traited :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the most impressive fact behind that is that they steal this from the necromancer! Where do we hide this? > > > > > > they cut off a part of the filthy thing that the necro itself has become and when shown to the necro even he himself will run in fear > > > > > > you guys are funny, look at warrior horn and then ask again for a horn buff > > > > To be honest im not sure it would be a buff. Fear has way more counters than daze it might actually end up being a nerf to be honest. > > > > > > > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > > Make it so that it removes Stability and resistance when you use the skill and we have a deal. > > > > > > and this would be outright op, probably one of the most ridiculous things ive read so far in thid forum > > > > Other skills on other professions do this already to ensure that their effects has a higher chance of working rather than being ignored. So its not as ridiculous as it sounds. > > > > > > controlling where a person is walking is a HUGE advantage, making them walk off points/caps, into dmg, off cliffs, away from you, so they have to close gap again (instead of just walking next to you while being dazed) ontop of traits that profit from fear To match your statement there are over twice as many counters to fear and fear is extremely limited even on the necromancer as a profession so your huge difference is not so huge as you are trying to make it seem. ;) > > there is no skill or trait that specifically removes all stab and resistance, sure there is boonrip and corrupt, but none that targets directly those 2, that would be INSANE, believe me, it would be WAY stronger than you might believe Actually you would be partly incorrect But first let me start by saying this. There is nothing wrong something being strong you are implying it should be weak by saying that statement which is kind of fubar. YOU KNOW... *cough* anet could fix this problem by looking at prioritizing which boons get stripped and corrupted rather then always letting it fall based on which ones were last applied which in a lot of cases it becomes total RNG because of how much some professions can drown themselves in boons rapidly while attacking, your odds of hitting the key ones you really want to hit are slimmed by a good bit. People question why necros have so many corruptions. The answer is because they dont prioritize anything. So to help hit the key boons you want to strip or punish we are given a metric ton of them all over. We wouldn't need as many if some skills or just corrupts and strips in general prioritized certain boons before others across the line. Now you are thinking im bat crazy for saying that because it would be too op. [insert some line about scourge in the reply] because im sure its whats coming next although i never mentioned anything about scourge. Getting back on topic here is where you are partly incorrect Theif's **"Bountiful Theft"**. This trait was changed to actually partly do exactly what you claim does not exist in the game some time ago. Thief steal does this **(when traited)** by prioritizing to **ALWAYS** steal and remove Aegis & Stability first over any other boon. Meaning it can always rip those 2 if they are applied. And yes its strong but its still a thing to this day because they can rupt skills that a lot of professions cant under the same situations. Not to mention it can be done from 1200 range, with no cast time, while under a cc effect. So yes im sure giving 1 skill on necro the power to strip 2 specific boons would be the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily.1935 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > No other profession has access to it other than a warriors "Fear me" shout and a ranger pet active. > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh I guess to missed the thief. > > > > > > > > > > Oh i did sure....... did i mean although its not a wide acess like its not something they can just do at any point and any time. That said The fact that they can have stronger base duration fears at melee ranger than necro still baffles me. 2 of them per steal when traited :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the most impressive fact behind that is that they steal this from the necromancer! Where do we hide this? > > > > > > they cut off a part of the filthy thing that the necro itself has become and when shown to the necro even he himself will run in fear > > > > > > you guys are funny, look at warrior horn and then ask again for a horn buff > > > > To be honest im not sure it would be a buff. Fear has way more counters than daze it might actually end up being a nerf to be honest. > > > > > > > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > > Make it so that it removes Stability and resistance when you use the skill and we have a deal. > > > > > > and this would be outright op, probably one of the most ridiculous things ive read so far in thid forum > > > > Other skills on other professions do this already to ensure that their effects has a higher chance of working rather than being ignored. So its not as ridiculous as it sounds. > > > > > > controlling where a person is walking is a HUGE advantage, making them walk off points/caps, into dmg, off cliffs, away from you, so they have to close gap again (instead of just walking next to you while being dazed) ontop of traits that profit from fear > > there is no skill or trait that specifically removes all stab and resistance, sure there is boonrip and corrupt, but none that targets directly those 2, that would be INSANE, believe me, it would be WAY stronger than you might believe Considering how weak the warhorn is, and how poorly its skills synergize with each other and the warhorn's short distance cone, I don't think it would be as big a deal as you think. Its also a slow cast with a massive tell on it. Players could easily dodge it, and I've dodged it myself and have had others do the same. Its such a weak skill right now and this wouldn't push it over the top. it'll just make it good. Not even great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShark.9548 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > No other profession has access to it other than a warriors "Fear me" shout and a ranger pet active. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh I guess to missed the thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh i did sure....... did i mean although its not a wide acess like its not something they can just do at any point and any time. That said The fact that they can have stronger base duration fears at melee ranger than necro still baffles me. 2 of them per steal when traited :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the most impressive fact behind that is that they steal this from the necromancer! Where do we hide this? > > > > > > > > they cut off a part of the filthy thing that the necro itself has become and when shown to the necro even he himself will run in fear > > > > > > > > you guys are funny, look at warrior horn and then ask again for a horn buff > > > > > > To be honest im not sure it would be a buff. Fear has way more counters than daze it might actually end up being a nerf to be honest. > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > > > Make it so that it removes Stability and resistance when you use the skill and we have a deal. > > > > > > > > and this would be outright op, probably one of the most ridiculous things ive read so far in thid forum > > > > > > Other skills on other professions do this already to ensure that their effects has a higher chance of working rather than being ignored. So its not as ridiculous as it sounds. > > > > > > > > > > controlling where a person is walking is a HUGE advantage, making them walk off points/caps, into dmg, off cliffs, away from you, so they have to close gap again (instead of just walking next to you while being dazed) ontop of traits that profit from fear > > To match your statement there are over twice as many counters to fear and fear is extremely limited even on the necromancer as a profession so your huge difference is not so huge as you are trying to make it seem. ;) > > > > > there is no skill or trait that specifically removes all stab and resistance, sure there is boonrip and corrupt, but none that targets directly those 2, that would be INSANE, believe me, it would be WAY stronger than you might believe > Actually you would be partly incorrect > > But first let me start by saying this. > There is nothing wrong something being strong you are implying it should be weak by saying that statement which is kind of fubar. > > YOU KNOW... *cough* anet could fix this problem by looking at prioritizing which boons get stripped and corrupted rather then always letting it fall based on which ones were last applied which in a lot of cases it becomes total RNG because of how much some professions can drown themselves in boons rapidly while attacking, your odds of hitting the key ones you really want to hit are slimmed by a good bit. People question why necros have so many corruptions. The answer is because they dont prioritize anything. So to help hit the key boons you want to strip or punish we are given a metric ton of them all over. We wouldn't need as many if some skills or just corrupts and strips in general prioritized certain boons before others across the line. > > Now you are thinking im bat crazy for saying that because it would be too op. [insert some line about scourge in the reply] because im sure its whats coming next although i never mentioned anything about scourge. > > Getting back on topic here is where you are partly incorrect Theif's **"Bountiful Theft"**. This trait was changed to actually partly do exactly what you claim does not exist in the game some time ago. > Thief steal does this **(when traited)** by prioritizing to **ALWAYS** steal and remove Aegis & Stability first over any other boon. Meaning it can always rip those 2 if they are applied. And yes its strong but its still a thing to this day because they can rupt skills that a lot of professions cant under the same situations. Not to mention it can be done from 1200 range, with no cast time, while under a cc effect. > > So yes im sure giving 1 skill on necro the power to strip 2 specific boons would be the end of the world. > im pretty sure horn 4 is aoe and not single target, and that change could be devestating in wvw > @"Lily.1935" said: > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > No other profession has access to it other than a warriors "Fear me" shout and a ranger pet active. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh I guess to missed the thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh i did sure....... did i mean although its not a wide acess like its not something they can just do at any point and any time. That said The fact that they can have stronger base duration fears at melee ranger than necro still baffles me. 2 of them per steal when traited :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the most impressive fact behind that is that they steal this from the necromancer! Where do we hide this? > > > > > > > > they cut off a part of the filthy thing that the necro itself has become and when shown to the necro even he himself will run in fear > > > > > > > > you guys are funny, look at warrior horn and then ask again for a horn buff > > > > > > To be honest im not sure it would be a buff. Fear has way more counters than daze it might actually end up being a nerf to be honest. > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > > > Make it so that it removes Stability and resistance when you use the skill and we have a deal. > > > > > > > > and this would be outright op, probably one of the most ridiculous things ive read so far in thid forum > > > > > > Other skills on other professions do this already to ensure that their effects has a higher chance of working rather than being ignored. So its not as ridiculous as it sounds. > > > > > > > > > > controlling where a person is walking is a HUGE advantage, making them walk off points/caps, into dmg, off cliffs, away from you, so they have to close gap again (instead of just walking next to you while being dazed) ontop of traits that profit from fear > > > > there is no skill or trait that specifically removes all stab and resistance, sure there is boonrip and corrupt, but none that targets directly those 2, that would be INSANE, believe me, it would be WAY stronger than you might believe > > Considering how weak the warhorn is, and how poorly its skills synergize with each other and the warhorn's short distance cone, I don't think it would be as big a deal as you think. Its also a slow cast with a massive tell on it. Players could easily dodge it, and I've dodged it myself and have had others do the same. Its such a weak skill right now and this wouldn't push it over the top. it'll just make it good. Not even great. again, take a look at warrior warhorn and then tell me that necros is weak i guess you never played wvw, in a zerg directly stripping stab and resistance on an aoe attack would be horrible and further advertise pirateshipping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flow.6043 Posted June 14, 2018 Share Posted June 14, 2018 > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > Considering how weak the warhorn is, ... > again, take a look at warrior warhorn and then tell me that necros is weak There's no need to compare it with other classes, our warhorn is great as it is, and with Banshee's Wail it is by far the best off hand weapon we have. > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > Going to need to agree with flow, here. Fear is extremely hard to balance with Expertise/condi duration existing in the game, too. > > > > Traited with added duration a 2s base fear bumps to 6s which is completely nuts. > So the improved duration via traits does not share the same 100% cap as the improved duration via expertise and sigils? > > So we basically get a 200% cap? > > Dumb... No. Some traits extend durations, like Barbed Precision or Cold Shoulder, and some traits modify skills, like Lingering Curse or Banshee's Wail, which basically turns their related skills into new ones with different base durations which are then again subject to the 100% cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anchoku.8142 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 Fear of Death is a 50% base duration increase so a 2 second base Fear x FoD 1.5 x 2 from expertise = 6 seconds and that is way too much. I feel like 2 or 3 seconds should be maximum possible Fear duration. That is why I suggested the 2 sec stun be replaced with a 0.5 or 0.75 second Fear. __(Focus needs help way more, though.)__ The two traits, Fear of Death and Reaper's Protection (2 sec base Fear) also need review. With Fear being Necro's primary pseudo-control effect, its access outside of shroud is poor and, in RP's case, uncontrollable. Wider availability and shorter duration is where I would like to see the profession taken. Necromancer has no way to build for hard CC despite the potential because Fear has too much performance variability. In a 2012 sense, Fear reminds me of Epidemic because it can so easily be either worse than useless or rediculously over-powered. Personally, that is what I think the dev's struggle with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily.1935 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"Lily.1935" said: > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > No other profession has access to it other than a warriors "Fear me" shout and a ranger pet active. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh I guess to missed the thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh i did sure....... did i mean although its not a wide acess like its not something they can just do at any point and any time. That said The fact that they can have stronger base duration fears at melee ranger than necro still baffles me. 2 of them per steal when traited :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the most impressive fact behind that is that they steal this from the necromancer! Where do we hide this? > > > > > > > > they cut off a part of the filthy thing that the necro itself has become and when shown to the necro even he himself will run in fear > > > > > > > > you guys are funny, look at warrior horn and then ask again for a horn buff > > > > > > To be honest im not sure it would be a buff. Fear has way more counters than daze it might actually end up being a nerf to be honest. > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > > > Make it so that it removes Stability and resistance when you use the skill and we have a deal. > > > > > > > > and this would be outright op, probably one of the most ridiculous things ive read so far in thid forum > > > > > > Other skills on other professions do this already to ensure that their effects has a higher chance of working rather than being ignored. So its not as ridiculous as it sounds. > > > > > > > > > > controlling where a person is walking is a HUGE advantage, making them walk off points/caps, into dmg, off cliffs, away from you, so they have to close gap again (instead of just walking next to you while being dazed) ontop of traits that profit from fear > > > > there is no skill or trait that specifically removes all stab and resistance, sure there is boonrip and corrupt, but none that targets directly those 2, that would be INSANE, believe me, it would be WAY stronger than you might believe > > Considering how weak the warhorn is, and how poorly its skills synergize with each other and the warhorn's short distance cone, I don't think it would be as big a deal as you think. Its also a slow cast with a massive tell on it. Players could easily dodge it, and I've dodged it myself and have had others do the same. Its such a weak skill right now and this wouldn't push it over the top. it'll just make it good. Not even great. Why are you comparing it to warrior warhorn when the two weapons are completely different in terms of function? Warrior warhorn is a support weapon and Necromancer warhorn is a control weapon with a short range. Wouldn't a better comparison be Warrior offhand mace? Or Scourge torch? Or pistol on either Mesmer or Thief? all of those would be a better comparison then Warrior warhorn. And I do play WvW. You know what I don't use because it just isn't good enough? Necromancer Warhorn. Torch is just better. Sure I don't get the speed boost, but the crippling is covered thanks to the shades and the knock down on torch is ranged. It can be blocked, sure, but its got a much larger range. And considering how much condition to boon conversion is going around do you honestly think that the fear would last long? It would be converted back into stability in no time. Reason I say stability AND resistance is because of how easy it is to counter fear. Heck, I've predicted fear coming in on me and threw out transfers before they would land and transfer them as soon as I suffered from it. Their tells are so slow I could predict it in the heat of battle! Me! I'm terrible at that sort of thing and it was so easy to out play fears, its literally the least threatening CC in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anchoku.8142 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 ^ Good point, Lilly. Fear being a hybrid of condition and control effect makes it susceptible to clears of both so its counters can be equally powerful. Long proc's are seldom endured before a stun break or other clear is used. This nerfs full value for most end game while severely punishing trash mobs and those without stun breaks (who are like trash mobs.) Therefore, long Fears are unnecessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeceiverX.8361 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"flow.6043" said: > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > Considering how weak the warhorn is, ... > > again, take a look at warrior warhorn and then tell me that necros is weak > > There's no need to compare it with other classes, our warhorn is great as it is, and with Banshee's Wail it is by far the best off hand weapon we have. > > > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > Going to need to agree with flow, here. Fear is extremely hard to balance with Expertise/condi duration existing in the game, too. > > > > > > Traited with added duration a 2s base fear bumps to 6s which is completely nuts. > > So the improved duration via traits does not share the same 100% cap as the improved duration via expertise and sigils? > > > > So we basically get a 200% cap? > > > > Dumb... > > No. > Some traits extend durations, like Barbed Precision or Cold Shoulder, and some traits modify skills, like Lingering Curse or Banshee's Wail, which basically turns their related skills into new ones with different base durations which are then again subject to the 100% cap. Yup, and unless things have changed, FoD increases the base durations rather than being additive to what is increased by expertise. If it's since been changed, my bad, but I don't recall any patches which changed this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShark.9548 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"Lily.1935" said: > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > > No other profession has access to it other than a warriors "Fear me" shout and a ranger pet active. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh I guess to missed the thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh i did sure....... did i mean although its not a wide acess like its not something they can just do at any point and any time. That said The fact that they can have stronger base duration fears at melee ranger than necro still baffles me. 2 of them per steal when traited :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the most impressive fact behind that is that they steal this from the necromancer! Where do we hide this? > > > > > > > > > > they cut off a part of the filthy thing that the necro itself has become and when shown to the necro even he himself will run in fear > > > > > > > > > > you guys are funny, look at warrior horn and then ask again for a horn buff > > > > > > > > To be honest im not sure it would be a buff. Fear has way more counters than daze it might actually end up being a nerf to be honest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > > > > Make it so that it removes Stability and resistance when you use the skill and we have a deal. > > > > > > > > > > and this would be outright op, probably one of the most ridiculous things ive read so far in thid forum > > > > > > > > Other skills on other professions do this already to ensure that their effects has a higher chance of working rather than being ignored. So its not as ridiculous as it sounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > controlling where a person is walking is a HUGE advantage, making them walk off points/caps, into dmg, off cliffs, away from you, so they have to close gap again (instead of just walking next to you while being dazed) ontop of traits that profit from fear > > > > > > there is no skill or trait that specifically removes all stab and resistance, sure there is boonrip and corrupt, but none that targets directly those 2, that would be INSANE, believe me, it would be WAY stronger than you might believe > > > > Considering how weak the warhorn is, and how poorly its skills synergize with each other and the warhorn's short distance cone, I don't think it would be as big a deal as you think. Its also a slow cast with a massive tell on it. Players could easily dodge it, and I've dodged it myself and have had others do the same. Its such a weak skill right now and this wouldn't push it over the top. it'll just make it good. Not even great. > > Why are you comparing it to warrior warhorn when the two weapons are completely different in terms of function? Warrior warhorn is a support weapon and Necromancer warhorn is a control weapon with a short range. Wouldn't a better comparison be Warrior offhand mace? Or Scourge torch? Or pistol on either Mesmer or Thief? all of those would be a better comparison then Warrior warhorn. And I do play WvW. You know what I don't use because it just isn't good enough? Necromancer Warhorn. Torch is just better. Sure I don't get the speed boost, but the crippling is covered thanks to the shades and the knock down on torch is ranged. It can be blocked, sure, but its got a much larger range. > > And considering how much condition to boon conversion is going around do you honestly think that the fear would last long? It would be converted back into stability in no time. Reason I say stability AND resistance is because of how easy it is to counter fear. Heck, I've predicted fear coming in on me and threw out transfers before they would land and transfer them as soon as I suffered from it. Their tells are so slow I could predict it in the heat of battle! Me! I'm terrible at that sort of thing and it was so easy to out play fears, its literally the least threatening CC in the game. just because they serve different purposes doesnt mean they cant be compared, they are the same weapon and the fact that you basically want to overload your 2 skills you get from it makes me compare it to warrior horn, look how many effect warrior horn has and look how many effect your horn would have with those things you suggest haha you are funny, dodging reliably all things that are dangerous in a zerg is almost impossible and i dont think you have played enough wvw or atleast in a somewhat competetive surrounding where it means certain death to run into necs that can instarip your 2 most importent boons, getting stuck for just a second can often lead to death, and again, everything that further advertises pirateship and punishes going melee is rly unhealthy for the mode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > > No other profession has access to it other than a warriors "Fear me" shout and a ranger pet active. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh I guess to missed the thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh i did sure....... did i mean although its not a wide acess like its not something they can just do at any point and any time. That said The fact that they can have stronger base duration fears at melee ranger than necro still baffles me. 2 of them per steal when traited :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the most impressive fact behind that is that they steal this from the necromancer! Where do we hide this? > > > > > > > > > > they cut off a part of the filthy thing that the necro itself has become and when shown to the necro even he himself will run in fear > > > > > > > > > > you guys are funny, look at warrior horn and then ask again for a horn buff > > > > > > > > To be honest im not sure it would be a buff. Fear has way more counters than daze it might actually end up being a nerf to be honest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > > > > Make it so that it removes Stability and resistance when you use the skill and we have a deal. > > > > > > > > > > and this would be outright op, probably one of the most ridiculous things ive read so far in thid forum > > > > > > > > Other skills on other professions do this already to ensure that their effects has a higher chance of working rather than being ignored. So its not as ridiculous as it sounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > controlling where a person is walking is a HUGE advantage, making them walk off points/caps, into dmg, off cliffs, away from you, so they have to close gap again (instead of just walking next to you while being dazed) ontop of traits that profit from fear > > > > To match your statement there are over twice as many counters to fear and fear is extremely limited even on the necromancer as a profession so your huge difference is not so huge as you are trying to make it seem. ;) > > > > > > > > there is no skill or trait that specifically removes all stab and resistance, sure there is boonrip and corrupt, but none that targets directly those 2, that would be INSANE, believe me, it would be WAY stronger than you might believe > > Actually you would be partly incorrect > > > > But first let me start by saying this. > > There is nothing wrong something being strong you are implying it should be weak by saying that statement which is kind of fubar. > > > > YOU KNOW... *cough* anet could fix this problem by looking at prioritizing which boons get stripped and corrupted rather then always letting it fall based on which ones were last applied which in a lot of cases it becomes total RNG because of how much some professions can drown themselves in boons rapidly while attacking, your odds of hitting the key ones you really want to hit are slimmed by a good bit. People question why necros have so many corruptions. The answer is because they dont prioritize anything. So to help hit the key boons you want to strip or punish we are given a metric ton of them all over. We wouldn't need as many if some skills or just corrupts and strips in general prioritized certain boons before others across the line. > > > > Now you are thinking im bat crazy for saying that because it would be too op. [insert some line about scourge in the reply] because im sure its whats coming next although i never mentioned anything about scourge. > > > > Getting back on topic here is where you are partly incorrect Theif's **"Bountiful Theft"**. This trait was changed to actually partly do exactly what you claim does not exist in the game some time ago. > > Thief steal does this **(when traited)** by prioritizing to **ALWAYS** steal and remove Aegis & Stability first over any other boon. Meaning it can always rip those 2 if they are applied. And yes its strong but its still a thing to this day because they can rupt skills that a lot of professions cant under the same situations. Not to mention it can be done from 1200 range, with no cast time, while under a cc effect. > > > > So yes im sure giving 1 skill on necro the power to strip 2 specific boons would be the end of the world. > > > > im pretty sure horn 4 is aoe and not single target, and that change could be devestating in wvw > Yes call out the one game mode where necro is its strongest and most effective anyways as if it would matter. No one here asked for it specificly for wvw in fact im almost sure that if you let a necro get close enough to warhorn you in wvw you are probably dead anyways. > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > > No other profession has access to it other than a warriors "Fear me" shout and a ranger pet active. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh I guess to missed the thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh i did sure....... did i mean although its not a wide acess like its not something they can just do at any point and any time. That said The fact that they can have stronger base duration fears at melee ranger than necro still baffles me. 2 of them per steal when traited :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the most impressive fact behind that is that they steal this from the necromancer! Where do we hide this? > > > > > > > > > > they cut off a part of the filthy thing that the necro itself has become and when shown to the necro even he himself will run in fear > > > > > > > > > > you guys are funny, look at warrior horn and then ask again for a horn buff > > > > > > > > To be honest im not sure it would be a buff. Fear has way more counters than daze it might actually end up being a nerf to be honest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > > > > Make it so that it removes Stability and resistance when you use the skill and we have a deal. > > > > > > > > > > and this would be outright op, probably one of the most ridiculous things ive read so far in thid forum > > > > > > > > Other skills on other professions do this already to ensure that their effects has a higher chance of working rather than being ignored. So its not as ridiculous as it sounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > controlling where a person is walking is a HUGE advantage, making them walk off points/caps, into dmg, off cliffs, away from you, so they have to close gap again (instead of just walking next to you while being dazed) ontop of traits that profit from fear > > > > > > there is no skill or trait that specifically removes all stab and resistance, sure there is boonrip and corrupt, but none that targets directly those 2, that would be INSANE, believe me, it would be WAY stronger than you might believe > > > > Considering how weak the warhorn is, and how poorly its skills synergize with each other and the warhorn's short distance cone, I don't think it would be as big a deal as you think. Its also a slow cast with a massive tell on it. Players could easily dodge it, and I've dodged it myself and have had others do the same. Its such a weak skill right now and this wouldn't push it over the top. it'll just make it good. Not even great. > > again, take a look at warrior warhorn and then tell me that necros is weak > i guess you never played wvw, in a zerg directly stripping stab and resistance on an aoe attack would be horrible and further advertise pirateshipping honestly it sounds like you just had some bad wvw matchups and are trying to use that as a justification that something cant be proposed to be changed. Once more you now call out wvw where necro shines best at the moment There wont be any pirate shipping because the ships have been out of the docks for some months now. This change just makes warhorn a better core weapon, greatly improved weapon for reaper, and a compeitive choice between torch and itself for scourge. At this point you might just be ranting but its hard to tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShark.9548 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > > > No other profession has access to it other than a warriors "Fear me" shout and a ranger pet active. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh I guess to missed the thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh i did sure....... did i mean although its not a wide acess like its not something they can just do at any point and any time. That said The fact that they can have stronger base duration fears at melee ranger than necro still baffles me. 2 of them per steal when traited :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the most impressive fact behind that is that they steal this from the necromancer! Where do we hide this? > > > > > > > > > > > > they cut off a part of the filthy thing that the necro itself has become and when shown to the necro even he himself will run in fear > > > > > > > > > > > > you guys are funny, look at warrior horn and then ask again for a horn buff > > > > > > > > > > To be honest im not sure it would be a buff. Fear has way more counters than daze it might actually end up being a nerf to be honest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > > > > > Make it so that it removes Stability and resistance when you use the skill and we have a deal. > > > > > > > > > > > > and this would be outright op, probably one of the most ridiculous things ive read so far in thid forum > > > > > > > > > > Other skills on other professions do this already to ensure that their effects has a higher chance of working rather than being ignored. So its not as ridiculous as it sounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > controlling where a person is walking is a HUGE advantage, making them walk off points/caps, into dmg, off cliffs, away from you, so they have to close gap again (instead of just walking next to you while being dazed) ontop of traits that profit from fear > > > > > > To match your statement there are over twice as many counters to fear and fear is extremely limited even on the necromancer as a profession so your huge difference is not so huge as you are trying to make it seem. ;) > > > > > > > > > > > there is no skill or trait that specifically removes all stab and resistance, sure there is boonrip and corrupt, but none that targets directly those 2, that would be INSANE, believe me, it would be WAY stronger than you might believe > > > Actually you would be partly incorrect > > > > > > But first let me start by saying this. > > > There is nothing wrong something being strong you are implying it should be weak by saying that statement which is kind of fubar. > > > > > > YOU KNOW... *cough* anet could fix this problem by looking at prioritizing which boons get stripped and corrupted rather then always letting it fall based on which ones were last applied which in a lot of cases it becomes total RNG because of how much some professions can drown themselves in boons rapidly while attacking, your odds of hitting the key ones you really want to hit are slimmed by a good bit. People question why necros have so many corruptions. The answer is because they dont prioritize anything. So to help hit the key boons you want to strip or punish we are given a metric ton of them all over. We wouldn't need as many if some skills or just corrupts and strips in general prioritized certain boons before others across the line. > > > > > > Now you are thinking im bat crazy for saying that because it would be too op. [insert some line about scourge in the reply] because im sure its whats coming next although i never mentioned anything about scourge. > > > > > > Getting back on topic here is where you are partly incorrect Theif's **"Bountiful Theft"**. This trait was changed to actually partly do exactly what you claim does not exist in the game some time ago. > > > Thief steal does this **(when traited)** by prioritizing to **ALWAYS** steal and remove Aegis & Stability first over any other boon. Meaning it can always rip those 2 if they are applied. And yes its strong but its still a thing to this day because they can rupt skills that a lot of professions cant under the same situations. Not to mention it can be done from 1200 range, with no cast time, while under a cc effect. > > > > > > So yes im sure giving 1 skill on necro the power to strip 2 specific boons would be the end of the world. > > > > > > > im pretty sure horn 4 is aoe and not single target, and that change could be devestating in wvw > > > Yes call out the one game mode where necro is its strongest and most effective anyways as if it would matter. No one here asked for it specificly for wvw in fact im almost sure that if you let a necro get close enough to warhorn you in wvw you are probably dead anyways. > > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > > > No other profession has access to it other than a warriors "Fear me" shout and a ranger pet active. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh I guess to missed the thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh i did sure....... did i mean although its not a wide acess like its not something they can just do at any point and any time. That said The fact that they can have stronger base duration fears at melee ranger than necro still baffles me. 2 of them per steal when traited :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the most impressive fact behind that is that they steal this from the necromancer! Where do we hide this? > > > > > > > > > > > > they cut off a part of the filthy thing that the necro itself has become and when shown to the necro even he himself will run in fear > > > > > > > > > > > > you guys are funny, look at warrior horn and then ask again for a horn buff > > > > > > > > > > To be honest im not sure it would be a buff. Fear has way more counters than daze it might actually end up being a nerf to be honest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > > > > > Make it so that it removes Stability and resistance when you use the skill and we have a deal. > > > > > > > > > > > > and this would be outright op, probably one of the most ridiculous things ive read so far in thid forum > > > > > > > > > > Other skills on other professions do this already to ensure that their effects has a higher chance of working rather than being ignored. So its not as ridiculous as it sounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > controlling where a person is walking is a HUGE advantage, making them walk off points/caps, into dmg, off cliffs, away from you, so they have to close gap again (instead of just walking next to you while being dazed) ontop of traits that profit from fear > > > > > > > > there is no skill or trait that specifically removes all stab and resistance, sure there is boonrip and corrupt, but none that targets directly those 2, that would be INSANE, believe me, it would be WAY stronger than you might believe > > > > > > Considering how weak the warhorn is, and how poorly its skills synergize with each other and the warhorn's short distance cone, I don't think it would be as big a deal as you think. Its also a slow cast with a massive tell on it. Players could easily dodge it, and I've dodged it myself and have had others do the same. Its such a weak skill right now and this wouldn't push it over the top. it'll just make it good. Not even great. > > > > again, take a look at warrior warhorn and then tell me that necros is weak > > i guess you never played wvw, in a zerg directly stripping stab and resistance on an aoe attack would be horrible and further advertise pirateshipping > > honestly it sounds like you just had some bad wvw matchups and are trying to use that as a justification that something cant be proposed to be changed. Once more you now call out wvw where necro shines best at the moment There wont be any pirate shipping because the ships have been out of the docks for some months now. This change just makes warhorn a better core weapon, greatly improved weapon for reaper, and a compeitive choice between torch and itself for scourge. At this point you might just be ranting but its hard to tell. > > its not about letting the necro get to me, its about me pushing the necro, i play melee you know? something you probably never done, because you only assume that i let him get to me lol, i have to get close and personal to take him down and i cant stand just watching em ship away, and we sure still have pirateshipping, it aint gone m8 and its devastating to push into someone who can instantly rip all resi and stab in a cone in front of him, while paddling back to lay down more red circles of death, where you do not want to get stuck because someone ripped both boons that lets you keep walking and im pretty sure we aint talkin about pve, so yea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > > > > No other profession has access to it other than a warriors "Fear me" shout and a ranger pet active. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh I guess to missed the thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh i did sure....... did i mean although its not a wide acess like its not something they can just do at any point and any time. That said The fact that they can have stronger base duration fears at melee ranger than necro still baffles me. 2 of them per steal when traited :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the most impressive fact behind that is that they steal this from the necromancer! Where do we hide this? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > they cut off a part of the filthy thing that the necro itself has become and when shown to the necro even he himself will run in fear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you guys are funny, look at warrior horn and then ask again for a horn buff > > > > > > > > > > > > To be honest im not sure it would be a buff. Fear has way more counters than daze it might actually end up being a nerf to be honest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > > > > > > Make it so that it removes Stability and resistance when you use the skill and we have a deal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and this would be outright op, probably one of the most ridiculous things ive read so far in thid forum > > > > > > > > > > > > Other skills on other professions do this already to ensure that their effects has a higher chance of working rather than being ignored. So its not as ridiculous as it sounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > controlling where a person is walking is a HUGE advantage, making them walk off points/caps, into dmg, off cliffs, away from you, so they have to close gap again (instead of just walking next to you while being dazed) ontop of traits that profit from fear > > > > > > > > To match your statement there are over twice as many counters to fear and fear is extremely limited even on the necromancer as a profession so your huge difference is not so huge as you are trying to make it seem. ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no skill or trait that specifically removes all stab and resistance, sure there is boonrip and corrupt, but none that targets directly those 2, that would be INSANE, believe me, it would be WAY stronger than you might believe > > > > Actually you would be partly incorrect > > > > > > > > But first let me start by saying this. > > > > There is nothing wrong something being strong you are implying it should be weak by saying that statement which is kind of fubar. > > > > > > > > YOU KNOW... *cough* anet could fix this problem by looking at prioritizing which boons get stripped and corrupted rather then always letting it fall based on which ones were last applied which in a lot of cases it becomes total RNG because of how much some professions can drown themselves in boons rapidly while attacking, your odds of hitting the key ones you really want to hit are slimmed by a good bit. People question why necros have so many corruptions. The answer is because they dont prioritize anything. So to help hit the key boons you want to strip or punish we are given a metric ton of them all over. We wouldn't need as many if some skills or just corrupts and strips in general prioritized certain boons before others across the line. > > > > > > > > Now you are thinking im bat crazy for saying that because it would be too op. [insert some line about scourge in the reply] because im sure its whats coming next although i never mentioned anything about scourge. > > > > > > > > Getting back on topic here is where you are partly incorrect Theif's **"Bountiful Theft"**. This trait was changed to actually partly do exactly what you claim does not exist in the game some time ago. > > > > Thief steal does this **(when traited)** by prioritizing to **ALWAYS** steal and remove Aegis & Stability first over any other boon. Meaning it can always rip those 2 if they are applied. And yes its strong but its still a thing to this day because they can rupt skills that a lot of professions cant under the same situations. Not to mention it can be done from 1200 range, with no cast time, while under a cc effect. > > > > > > > > So yes im sure giving 1 skill on necro the power to strip 2 specific boons would be the end of the world. > > > > > > > > > > im pretty sure horn 4 is aoe and not single target, and that change could be devestating in wvw > > > > > Yes call out the one game mode where necro is its strongest and most effective anyways as if it would matter. No one here asked for it specificly for wvw in fact im almost sure that if you let a necro get close enough to warhorn you in wvw you are probably dead anyways. > > > > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > > > > No other profession has access to it other than a warriors "Fear me" shout and a ranger pet active. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh I guess to missed the thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh i did sure....... did i mean although its not a wide acess like its not something they can just do at any point and any time. That said The fact that they can have stronger base duration fears at melee ranger than necro still baffles me. 2 of them per steal when traited :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the most impressive fact behind that is that they steal this from the necromancer! Where do we hide this? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > they cut off a part of the filthy thing that the necro itself has become and when shown to the necro even he himself will run in fear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you guys are funny, look at warrior horn and then ask again for a horn buff > > > > > > > > > > > > To be honest im not sure it would be a buff. Fear has way more counters than daze it might actually end up being a nerf to be honest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > > > > > > Make it so that it removes Stability and resistance when you use the skill and we have a deal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and this would be outright op, probably one of the most ridiculous things ive read so far in thid forum > > > > > > > > > > > > Other skills on other professions do this already to ensure that their effects has a higher chance of working rather than being ignored. So its not as ridiculous as it sounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > controlling where a person is walking is a HUGE advantage, making them walk off points/caps, into dmg, off cliffs, away from you, so they have to close gap again (instead of just walking next to you while being dazed) ontop of traits that profit from fear > > > > > > > > > > there is no skill or trait that specifically removes all stab and resistance, sure there is boonrip and corrupt, but none that targets directly those 2, that would be INSANE, believe me, it would be WAY stronger than you might believe > > > > > > > > Considering how weak the warhorn is, and how poorly its skills synergize with each other and the warhorn's short distance cone, I don't think it would be as big a deal as you think. Its also a slow cast with a massive tell on it. Players could easily dodge it, and I've dodged it myself and have had others do the same. Its such a weak skill right now and this wouldn't push it over the top. it'll just make it good. Not even great. > > > > > > again, take a look at warrior warhorn and then tell me that necros is weak > > > i guess you never played wvw, in a zerg directly stripping stab and resistance on an aoe attack would be horrible and further advertise pirateshipping > > > > honestly it sounds like you just had some bad wvw matchups and are trying to use that as a justification that something cant be proposed to be changed. Once more you now call out wvw where necro shines best at the moment There wont be any pirate shipping because the ships have been out of the docks for some months now. This change just makes warhorn a better core weapon, greatly improved weapon for reaper, and a compeitive choice between torch and itself for scourge. At this point you might just be ranting but its hard to tell. > > > > > > its not about letting the necro get to me, its about me pushing the necro, i play melee you know? something you probably never done, because you only assume that i let him get to me lol, i have to get close and personal to take him down and i cant stand just watching em ship away, and we sure still have pirateshipping, it aint gone m8 > and its devastating to push into someone who can instantly rip all resi and stab in a cone in front of him, while paddling back to lay down more red circles of death, where you do not want to get stuck because someone ripped both boons that lets you keep walking > and im pretty sure we aint talkin about pve, so yea Considering I run reaper and despise scourge yes ive played melee more than you know. Considering necro has next to 0 blinks, or true escapes and its survival being dependent upon applying things like fear, chill, cripple, weakness to sustain itself I dont know why you are so upset about this. Clearly you have also never tried necro I advise you to go play it (not using scourge or even scourge if you want to) and see how easy it is for people to run right over you when you make a mistake. Becauese you play melee im gonna assume that means warrior, or some form of engi, possibly guardian. which all have plenty of safety tools that allow them to out right stop or ignore damage when a mistake is made. IF you are melee why are you trying to run up on a scourge when you know full well that punishing melee attackers is a speciality of theirs atm. - runs into circle cause i feel like i should be able to win cause melee - dies - necro op nothing i can do about it..... Have you tried using a ranged option or perhaps disengaging Have you considered melee fighting is not the best option in wvw in the current meta Have you considered that maybe its not your role to be trying to run over a necros face as a melee fighter in wvw In any case you have clearly had some issues dealing with necros and like so many other players its life a bad taste in your mouth to them in any shape or form. Im sorry but if you are crazy enough to run into those red circles (because i can boon spam myself) then die i dont know what else to tell you. You dont run into any red circle from a necro and expect not to be punished for doing so. Regardless if its Plaguelands, Any kind of Well skill, Staff Marks, Or the ugly Scourge shades and elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShark.9548 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > No other profession has access to it other than a warriors "Fear me" shout and a ranger pet active. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh I guess to missed the thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh i did sure....... did i mean although its not a wide acess like its not something they can just do at any point and any time. That said The fact that they can have stronger base duration fears at melee ranger than necro still baffles me. 2 of them per steal when traited :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the most impressive fact behind that is that they steal this from the necromancer! Where do we hide this? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > they cut off a part of the filthy thing that the necro itself has become and when shown to the necro even he himself will run in fear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you guys are funny, look at warrior horn and then ask again for a horn buff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To be honest im not sure it would be a buff. Fear has way more counters than daze it might actually end up being a nerf to be honest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > > > > > > > Make it so that it removes Stability and resistance when you use the skill and we have a deal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and this would be outright op, probably one of the most ridiculous things ive read so far in thid forum > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other skills on other professions do this already to ensure that their effects has a higher chance of working rather than being ignored. So its not as ridiculous as it sounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > controlling where a person is walking is a HUGE advantage, making them walk off points/caps, into dmg, off cliffs, away from you, so they have to close gap again (instead of just walking next to you while being dazed) ontop of traits that profit from fear > > > > > > > > > > To match your statement there are over twice as many counters to fear and fear is extremely limited even on the necromancer as a profession so your huge difference is not so huge as you are trying to make it seem. ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no skill or trait that specifically removes all stab and resistance, sure there is boonrip and corrupt, but none that targets directly those 2, that would be INSANE, believe me, it would be WAY stronger than you might believe > > > > > Actually you would be partly incorrect > > > > > > > > > > But first let me start by saying this. > > > > > There is nothing wrong something being strong you are implying it should be weak by saying that statement which is kind of fubar. > > > > > > > > > > YOU KNOW... *cough* anet could fix this problem by looking at prioritizing which boons get stripped and corrupted rather then always letting it fall based on which ones were last applied which in a lot of cases it becomes total RNG because of how much some professions can drown themselves in boons rapidly while attacking, your odds of hitting the key ones you really want to hit are slimmed by a good bit. People question why necros have so many corruptions. The answer is because they dont prioritize anything. So to help hit the key boons you want to strip or punish we are given a metric ton of them all over. We wouldn't need as many if some skills or just corrupts and strips in general prioritized certain boons before others across the line. > > > > > > > > > > Now you are thinking im bat crazy for saying that because it would be too op. [insert some line about scourge in the reply] because im sure its whats coming next although i never mentioned anything about scourge. > > > > > > > > > > Getting back on topic here is where you are partly incorrect Theif's **"Bountiful Theft"**. This trait was changed to actually partly do exactly what you claim does not exist in the game some time ago. > > > > > Thief steal does this **(when traited)** by prioritizing to **ALWAYS** steal and remove Aegis & Stability first over any other boon. Meaning it can always rip those 2 if they are applied. And yes its strong but its still a thing to this day because they can rupt skills that a lot of professions cant under the same situations. Not to mention it can be done from 1200 range, with no cast time, while under a cc effect. > > > > > > > > > > So yes im sure giving 1 skill on necro the power to strip 2 specific boons would be the end of the world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > im pretty sure horn 4 is aoe and not single target, and that change could be devestating in wvw > > > > > > > Yes call out the one game mode where necro is its strongest and most effective anyways as if it would matter. No one here asked for it specificly for wvw in fact im almost sure that if you let a necro get close enough to warhorn you in wvw you are probably dead anyways. > > > > > > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > No other profession has access to it other than a warriors "Fear me" shout and a ranger pet active. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh I guess to missed the thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh i did sure....... did i mean although its not a wide acess like its not something they can just do at any point and any time. That said The fact that they can have stronger base duration fears at melee ranger than necro still baffles me. 2 of them per steal when traited :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the most impressive fact behind that is that they steal this from the necromancer! Where do we hide this? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > they cut off a part of the filthy thing that the necro itself has become and when shown to the necro even he himself will run in fear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you guys are funny, look at warrior horn and then ask again for a horn buff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To be honest im not sure it would be a buff. Fear has way more counters than daze it might actually end up being a nerf to be honest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > > > > > > > Make it so that it removes Stability and resistance when you use the skill and we have a deal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and this would be outright op, probably one of the most ridiculous things ive read so far in thid forum > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other skills on other professions do this already to ensure that their effects has a higher chance of working rather than being ignored. So its not as ridiculous as it sounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > controlling where a person is walking is a HUGE advantage, making them walk off points/caps, into dmg, off cliffs, away from you, so they have to close gap again (instead of just walking next to you while being dazed) ontop of traits that profit from fear > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no skill or trait that specifically removes all stab and resistance, sure there is boonrip and corrupt, but none that targets directly those 2, that would be INSANE, believe me, it would be WAY stronger than you might believe > > > > > > > > > > Considering how weak the warhorn is, and how poorly its skills synergize with each other and the warhorn's short distance cone, I don't think it would be as big a deal as you think. Its also a slow cast with a massive tell on it. Players could easily dodge it, and I've dodged it myself and have had others do the same. Its such a weak skill right now and this wouldn't push it over the top. it'll just make it good. Not even great. > > > > > > > > again, take a look at warrior warhorn and then tell me that necros is weak > > > > i guess you never played wvw, in a zerg directly stripping stab and resistance on an aoe attack would be horrible and further advertise pirateshipping > > > > > > honestly it sounds like you just had some bad wvw matchups and are trying to use that as a justification that something cant be proposed to be changed. Once more you now call out wvw where necro shines best at the moment There wont be any pirate shipping because the ships have been out of the docks for some months now. This change just makes warhorn a better core weapon, greatly improved weapon for reaper, and a compeitive choice between torch and itself for scourge. At this point you might just be ranting but its hard to tell. > > > > > > > > > > its not about letting the necro get to me, its about me pushing the necro, i play melee you know? something you probably never done, because you only assume that i let him get to me lol, i have to get close and personal to take him down and i cant stand just watching em ship away, and we sure still have pirateshipping, it aint gone m8 > > and its devastating to push into someone who can instantly rip all resi and stab in a cone in front of him, while paddling back to lay down more red circles of death, where you do not want to get stuck because someone ripped both boons that lets you keep walking > > and im pretty sure we aint talkin about pve, so yea > > Considering I run reaper and despise scourge yes ive played melee more than you know. Considering necro has next to 0 blinks, or true escapes and its survival being dependent upon applying things like fear, chill, cripple, weakness to sustain itself I dont know why you are so upset about this. Clearly you have also never tried necro I advise you to go play it (not using scourge or even scourge if you want to) and see how easy it is for people to run right over you when you make a mistake. Becauese you play melee im gonna assume that means warrior, or some form of engi, possibly guardian. which all have plenty of safety tools that allow them to out right stop or ignore damage when a mistake is made. > > IF you are melee why are you trying to run up on a scourge when you know full well that punishing melee attackers is a speciality of theirs atm. > - runs into circle cause i feel like i should be able to win cause melee > - dies > - necro op nothing i can do about it..... > > Have you tried using a ranged option or perhaps disengaging > Have you considered melee fighting is not the best option in wvw in the current meta > Have you considered that maybe its not your role to be trying to run over a necros face as a melee fighter in wvw > > In any case you have clearly had some issues dealing with necros and like so many other players its life a bad taste in your mouth to them in any shape or form. Im sorry but if you are crazy enough to run into those red circles (because i can boon spam myself) then die i dont know what else to tell you. You dont run into any red circle from a necro and expect not to be punished for doing so. Regardless if its Plaguelands, Any kind of Well skill, Staff Marks, Or the ugly Scourge shades and elite. holy shit, im still talkig about zerging, the biggest kitten part in wvw ZERGING holy cow, you sure talk alot but you have no idea about wvw i get the feeling, you have to push and run into those pesky scourges to take an objective that is being defended, gett off your high horse, telling me to play some ranged classes wth dude you still need a frontline right now to make pushes, melees in a zerg are still meta, are you that ignorant? with changes like that you sure would get hella buffs and even more loot with your fun little condi spewing abominations, but ruin the fun of many otger ppl imagin running through a choke with around 50ppl (you maybe even have more ppl, thats why you dare to even dare to push a choke) on the other side and all of their necros just put dmg down and blow into their horn to instantly rip all stab and resistance, that would be a deadstop to anyone who tries to attack, nobody would ever push again, all just sitting in their keeps or ship away, boring gameplay and definately not healthy for that mode and your "have you tried that and that stuff" sounds so arrogant, its aggravating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > No other profession has access to it other than a warriors "Fear me" shout and a ranger pet active. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh I guess to missed the thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh i did sure....... did i mean although its not a wide acess like its not something they can just do at any point and any time. That said The fact that they can have stronger base duration fears at melee ranger than necro still baffles me. 2 of them per steal when traited :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the most impressive fact behind that is that they steal this from the necromancer! Where do we hide this? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > they cut off a part of the filthy thing that the necro itself has become and when shown to the necro even he himself will run in fear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you guys are funny, look at warrior horn and then ask again for a horn buff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To be honest im not sure it would be a buff. Fear has way more counters than daze it might actually end up being a nerf to be honest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > > > > > > > > Make it so that it removes Stability and resistance when you use the skill and we have a deal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and this would be outright op, probably one of the most ridiculous things ive read so far in thid forum > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other skills on other professions do this already to ensure that their effects has a higher chance of working rather than being ignored. So its not as ridiculous as it sounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > controlling where a person is walking is a HUGE advantage, making them walk off points/caps, into dmg, off cliffs, away from you, so they have to close gap again (instead of just walking next to you while being dazed) ontop of traits that profit from fear > > > > > > > > > > > > To match your statement there are over twice as many counters to fear and fear is extremely limited even on the necromancer as a profession so your huge difference is not so huge as you are trying to make it seem. ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no skill or trait that specifically removes all stab and resistance, sure there is boonrip and corrupt, but none that targets directly those 2, that would be INSANE, believe me, it would be WAY stronger than you might believe > > > > > > Actually you would be partly incorrect > > > > > > > > > > > > But first let me start by saying this. > > > > > > There is nothing wrong something being strong you are implying it should be weak by saying that statement which is kind of fubar. > > > > > > > > > > > > YOU KNOW... *cough* anet could fix this problem by looking at prioritizing which boons get stripped and corrupted rather then always letting it fall based on which ones were last applied which in a lot of cases it becomes total RNG because of how much some professions can drown themselves in boons rapidly while attacking, your odds of hitting the key ones you really want to hit are slimmed by a good bit. People question why necros have so many corruptions. The answer is because they dont prioritize anything. So to help hit the key boons you want to strip or punish we are given a metric ton of them all over. We wouldn't need as many if some skills or just corrupts and strips in general prioritized certain boons before others across the line. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now you are thinking im bat crazy for saying that because it would be too op. [insert some line about scourge in the reply] because im sure its whats coming next although i never mentioned anything about scourge. > > > > > > > > > > > > Getting back on topic here is where you are partly incorrect Theif's **"Bountiful Theft"**. This trait was changed to actually partly do exactly what you claim does not exist in the game some time ago. > > > > > > Thief steal does this **(when traited)** by prioritizing to **ALWAYS** steal and remove Aegis & Stability first over any other boon. Meaning it can always rip those 2 if they are applied. And yes its strong but its still a thing to this day because they can rupt skills that a lot of professions cant under the same situations. Not to mention it can be done from 1200 range, with no cast time, while under a cc effect. > > > > > > > > > > > > So yes im sure giving 1 skill on necro the power to strip 2 specific boons would be the end of the world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > im pretty sure horn 4 is aoe and not single target, and that change could be devestating in wvw > > > > > > > > > Yes call out the one game mode where necro is its strongest and most effective anyways as if it would matter. No one here asked for it specificly for wvw in fact im almost sure that if you let a necro get close enough to warhorn you in wvw you are probably dead anyways. > > > > > > > > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > No other profession has access to it other than a warriors "Fear me" shout and a ranger pet active. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh I guess to missed the thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh i did sure....... did i mean although its not a wide acess like its not something they can just do at any point and any time. That said The fact that they can have stronger base duration fears at melee ranger than necro still baffles me. 2 of them per steal when traited :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the most impressive fact behind that is that they steal this from the necromancer! Where do we hide this? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > they cut off a part of the filthy thing that the necro itself has become and when shown to the necro even he himself will run in fear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you guys are funny, look at warrior horn and then ask again for a horn buff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To be honest im not sure it would be a buff. Fear has way more counters than daze it might actually end up being a nerf to be honest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > > > > > > > > Make it so that it removes Stability and resistance when you use the skill and we have a deal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and this would be outright op, probably one of the most ridiculous things ive read so far in thid forum > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other skills on other professions do this already to ensure that their effects has a higher chance of working rather than being ignored. So its not as ridiculous as it sounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > controlling where a person is walking is a HUGE advantage, making them walk off points/caps, into dmg, off cliffs, away from you, so they have to close gap again (instead of just walking next to you while being dazed) ontop of traits that profit from fear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no skill or trait that specifically removes all stab and resistance, sure there is boonrip and corrupt, but none that targets directly those 2, that would be INSANE, believe me, it would be WAY stronger than you might believe > > > > > > > > > > > > Considering how weak the warhorn is, and how poorly its skills synergize with each other and the warhorn's short distance cone, I don't think it would be as big a deal as you think. Its also a slow cast with a massive tell on it. Players could easily dodge it, and I've dodged it myself and have had others do the same. Its such a weak skill right now and this wouldn't push it over the top. it'll just make it good. Not even great. > > > > > > > > > > again, take a look at warrior warhorn and then tell me that necros is weak > > > > > i guess you never played wvw, in a zerg directly stripping stab and resistance on an aoe attack would be horrible and further advertise pirateshipping > > > > > > > > honestly it sounds like you just had some bad wvw matchups and are trying to use that as a justification that something cant be proposed to be changed. Once more you now call out wvw where necro shines best at the moment There wont be any pirate shipping because the ships have been out of the docks for some months now. This change just makes warhorn a better core weapon, greatly improved weapon for reaper, and a compeitive choice between torch and itself for scourge. At this point you might just be ranting but its hard to tell. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its not about letting the necro get to me, its about me pushing the necro, i play melee you know? something you probably never done, because you only assume that i let him get to me lol, i have to get close and personal to take him down and i cant stand just watching em ship away, and we sure still have pirateshipping, it aint gone m8 > > > and its devastating to push into someone who can instantly rip all resi and stab in a cone in front of him, while paddling back to lay down more red circles of death, where you do not want to get stuck because someone ripped both boons that lets you keep walking > > > and im pretty sure we aint talkin about pve, so yea > > > > Considering I run reaper and despise scourge yes ive played melee more than you know. Considering necro has next to 0 blinks, or true escapes and its survival being dependent upon applying things like fear, chill, cripple, weakness to sustain itself I dont know why you are so upset about this. Clearly you have also never tried necro I advise you to go play it (not using scourge or even scourge if you want to) and see how easy it is for people to run right over you when you make a mistake. Becauese you play melee im gonna assume that means warrior, or some form of engi, possibly guardian. which all have plenty of safety tools that allow them to out right stop or ignore damage when a mistake is made. > > > > IF you are melee why are you trying to run up on a scourge when you know full well that punishing melee attackers is a speciality of theirs atm. > > - runs into circle cause i feel like i should be able to win cause melee > > - dies > > - necro op nothing i can do about it..... > > > > Have you tried using a ranged option or perhaps disengaging > > Have you considered melee fighting is not the best option in wvw in the current meta > > Have you considered that maybe its not your role to be trying to run over a necros face as a melee fighter in wvw > > > > In any case you have clearly had some issues dealing with necros and like so many other players its life a bad taste in your mouth to them in any shape or form. Im sorry but if you are crazy enough to run into those red circles (because i can boon spam myself) then die i dont know what else to tell you. You dont run into any red circle from a necro and expect not to be punished for doing so. Regardless if its Plaguelands, Any kind of Well skill, Staff Marks, Or the ugly Scourge shades and elite. > > holy kitten, im still talkig about zerging, the biggest kitten part in wvw ZERGING holy cow, you sure talk alot but you have no idea about wvw i get the feeling, you have to push and run into those pesky scourges to take an objective that is being defended, gett off your high horse, telling me to play some ranged classes wth dude > you still need a frontline right now to make pushes, melees in a zerg are still meta, are you that ignorant? with changes like that you sure would get hella buffs and even more loot with your fun little condi spewing abominations, but ruin the fun of many otger ppl Well in zergs i dont see the problem people die you will have necros on your side the foes will have necros on theirs if its so much of a problem wouldnt it be just as much of a bienfit >.> Whats the damage here? You are upset about playing front line and dieing on the front like from having area denial which is made to keep front line advancements pressured and limited. You shouldn't be rewarded for mindlessly bashing your face through those red circles you know. I bet you dont think about it but just as often as those red circles kill you they also save your life. I cant see your reason for complaining about the warhorn change suggestion though as you will have them on your side just as much as your foe which pretty much shuts down your argument and all of your complaints about how broken it would be. I get the feeling you are really tilted about how much you go down in WvW zergging as a frontline fighter. I didnt tell you to play a purely ranged class I said to try a ranged option. EVERY PROFESSION has a ranged option in one way or another. Just because you are front line does not mean you are going to be 100% melee. > > imagin running through a choke with around 50ppl (you maybe even have more ppl, thats why you dare to even dare to push a choke) on the other side and all of their necros just put dmg down and blow into their horn to instantly rip all stab and resistance, that would be a deadstop to anyone who tries to attack, nobody would ever push again, all just sitting in their keeps or ship away, boring gameplay and definately not healthy for that mode > > and your "have you tried that and that stuff" sounds so arrogant, its aggravating Well yeah its a tactical position. Thats why its called CHOKE POINT because it limits what people can do to push through it. Depending on how strong the enemy zergs defense is and how well they can manage their cooldowns then yes it can put a push to a dead stop. You should probably not try to force your way through and im sorry if it annoys you that you cant do much about it as a melee fighter. You sadly have to make a choice. You go through it and risk death or you try and wait it out or pull back and try again later. Ideally its on the commanders to make that call that will keep you in place to test the foes defenses, push through them, or end up getting your zerg wiped. As i said you are obviously hurt by the playstyle of the current meta and the role most necros take in wvw zergs but thats not a legit reason to hate on proposed changes that are invited to all other parts of the game. Necro is not as oppressive in other areas of the game and wvw is where it excels the most currently. I can assure you the poster of this change did not simply target wvw zergs in mind when they typed it up. But your hate for the idea seems to be targeted specifically from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily.1935 Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 > @"RedShark.9548" said: > just because they serve different purposes doesnt mean they cant be compared YES! Yes it does! They might be the same weapon type, but they are not at all similar. Next you're going to try and tell me we should balance Reaper's Greatsword based on how effective mesmer greatsword works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShark.9548 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No other profession has access to it other than a warriors "Fear me" shout and a ranger pet active. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh I guess to missed the thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh i did sure....... did i mean although its not a wide acess like its not something they can just do at any point and any time. That said The fact that they can have stronger base duration fears at melee ranger than necro still baffles me. 2 of them per steal when traited :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the most impressive fact behind that is that they steal this from the necromancer! Where do we hide this? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > they cut off a part of the filthy thing that the necro itself has become and when shown to the necro even he himself will run in fear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you guys are funny, look at warrior horn and then ask again for a horn buff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To be honest im not sure it would be a buff. Fear has way more counters than daze it might actually end up being a nerf to be honest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Make it so that it removes Stability and resistance when you use the skill and we have a deal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and this would be outright op, probably one of the most ridiculous things ive read so far in thid forum > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other skills on other professions do this already to ensure that their effects has a higher chance of working rather than being ignored. So its not as ridiculous as it sounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > controlling where a person is walking is a HUGE advantage, making them walk off points/caps, into dmg, off cliffs, away from you, so they have to close gap again (instead of just walking next to you while being dazed) ontop of traits that profit from fear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To match your statement there are over twice as many counters to fear and fear is extremely limited even on the necromancer as a profession so your huge difference is not so huge as you are trying to make it seem. ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no skill or trait that specifically removes all stab and resistance, sure there is boonrip and corrupt, but none that targets directly those 2, that would be INSANE, believe me, it would be WAY stronger than you might believe > > > > > > > Actually you would be partly incorrect > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But first let me start by saying this. > > > > > > > There is nothing wrong something being strong you are implying it should be weak by saying that statement which is kind of fubar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > YOU KNOW... *cough* anet could fix this problem by looking at prioritizing which boons get stripped and corrupted rather then always letting it fall based on which ones were last applied which in a lot of cases it becomes total RNG because of how much some professions can drown themselves in boons rapidly while attacking, your odds of hitting the key ones you really want to hit are slimmed by a good bit. People question why necros have so many corruptions. The answer is because they dont prioritize anything. So to help hit the key boons you want to strip or punish we are given a metric ton of them all over. We wouldn't need as many if some skills or just corrupts and strips in general prioritized certain boons before others across the line. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now you are thinking im bat crazy for saying that because it would be too op. [insert some line about scourge in the reply] because im sure its whats coming next although i never mentioned anything about scourge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Getting back on topic here is where you are partly incorrect Theif's **"Bountiful Theft"**. This trait was changed to actually partly do exactly what you claim does not exist in the game some time ago. > > > > > > > Thief steal does this **(when traited)** by prioritizing to **ALWAYS** steal and remove Aegis & Stability first over any other boon. Meaning it can always rip those 2 if they are applied. And yes its strong but its still a thing to this day because they can rupt skills that a lot of professions cant under the same situations. Not to mention it can be done from 1200 range, with no cast time, while under a cc effect. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So yes im sure giving 1 skill on necro the power to strip 2 specific boons would be the end of the world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > im pretty sure horn 4 is aoe and not single target, and that change could be devestating in wvw > > > > > > > > > > > Yes call out the one game mode where necro is its strongest and most effective anyways as if it would matter. No one here asked for it specificly for wvw in fact im almost sure that if you let a necro get close enough to warhorn you in wvw you are probably dead anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No other profession has access to it other than a warriors "Fear me" shout and a ranger pet active. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh I guess to missed the thief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh i did sure....... did i mean although its not a wide acess like its not something they can just do at any point and any time. That said The fact that they can have stronger base duration fears at melee ranger than necro still baffles me. 2 of them per steal when traited :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And the most impressive fact behind that is that they steal this from the necromancer! Where do we hide this? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > they cut off a part of the filthy thing that the necro itself has become and when shown to the necro even he himself will run in fear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you guys are funny, look at warrior horn and then ask again for a horn buff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To be honest im not sure it would be a buff. Fear has way more counters than daze it might actually end up being a nerf to be honest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lily.1935" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Make it so that it removes Stability and resistance when you use the skill and we have a deal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and this would be outright op, probably one of the most ridiculous things ive read so far in thid forum > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other skills on other professions do this already to ensure that their effects has a higher chance of working rather than being ignored. So its not as ridiculous as it sounds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > controlling where a person is walking is a HUGE advantage, making them walk off points/caps, into dmg, off cliffs, away from you, so they have to close gap again (instead of just walking next to you while being dazed) ontop of traits that profit from fear > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no skill or trait that specifically removes all stab and resistance, sure there is boonrip and corrupt, but none that targets directly those 2, that would be INSANE, believe me, it would be WAY stronger than you might believe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Considering how weak the warhorn is, and how poorly its skills synergize with each other and the warhorn's short distance cone, I don't think it would be as big a deal as you think. Its also a slow cast with a massive tell on it. Players could easily dodge it, and I've dodged it myself and have had others do the same. Its such a weak skill right now and this wouldn't push it over the top. it'll just make it good. Not even great. > > > > > > > > > > > > again, take a look at warrior warhorn and then tell me that necros is weak > > > > > > i guess you never played wvw, in a zerg directly stripping stab and resistance on an aoe attack would be horrible and further advertise pirateshipping > > > > > > > > > > honestly it sounds like you just had some bad wvw matchups and are trying to use that as a justification that something cant be proposed to be changed. Once more you now call out wvw where necro shines best at the moment There wont be any pirate shipping because the ships have been out of the docks for some months now. This change just makes warhorn a better core weapon, greatly improved weapon for reaper, and a compeitive choice between torch and itself for scourge. At this point you might just be ranting but its hard to tell. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its not about letting the necro get to me, its about me pushing the necro, i play melee you know? something you probably never done, because you only assume that i let him get to me lol, i have to get close and personal to take him down and i cant stand just watching em ship away, and we sure still have pirateshipping, it aint gone m8 > > > > and its devastating to push into someone who can instantly rip all resi and stab in a cone in front of him, while paddling back to lay down more red circles of death, where you do not want to get stuck because someone ripped both boons that lets you keep walking > > > > and im pretty sure we aint talkin about pve, so yea > > > > > > Considering I run reaper and despise scourge yes ive played melee more than you know. Considering necro has next to 0 blinks, or true escapes and its survival being dependent upon applying things like fear, chill, cripple, weakness to sustain itself I dont know why you are so upset about this. Clearly you have also never tried necro I advise you to go play it (not using scourge or even scourge if you want to) and see how easy it is for people to run right over you when you make a mistake. Becauese you play melee im gonna assume that means warrior, or some form of engi, possibly guardian. which all have plenty of safety tools that allow them to out right stop or ignore damage when a mistake is made. > > > > > > IF you are melee why are you trying to run up on a scourge when you know full well that punishing melee attackers is a speciality of theirs atm. > > > - runs into circle cause i feel like i should be able to win cause melee > > > - dies > > > - necro op nothing i can do about it..... > > > > > > Have you tried using a ranged option or perhaps disengaging > > > Have you considered melee fighting is not the best option in wvw in the current meta > > > Have you considered that maybe its not your role to be trying to run over a necros face as a melee fighter in wvw > > > > > > In any case you have clearly had some issues dealing with necros and like so many other players its life a bad taste in your mouth to them in any shape or form. Im sorry but if you are crazy enough to run into those red circles (because i can boon spam myself) then die i dont know what else to tell you. You dont run into any red circle from a necro and expect not to be punished for doing so. Regardless if its Plaguelands, Any kind of Well skill, Staff Marks, Or the ugly Scourge shades and elite. > > > > holy kitten, im still talkig about zerging, the biggest kitten part in wvw ZERGING holy cow, you sure talk alot but you have no idea about wvw i get the feeling, you have to push and run into those pesky scourges to take an objective that is being defended, gett off your high horse, telling me to play some ranged classes wth dude > > you still need a frontline right now to make pushes, melees in a zerg are still meta, are you that ignorant? with changes like that you sure would get hella buffs and even more loot with your fun little condi spewing abominations, but ruin the fun of many otger ppl > > Well in zergs i dont see the problem people die you will have necros on your side the foes will have necros on theirs if its so much of a problem wouldnt it be just as much of a bienfit >.> > Whats the damage here? > You are upset about playing front line and dieing on the front like from having area denial which is made to keep front line advancements pressured and limited. You shouldn't be rewarded for mindlessly bashing your face through those red circles you know. > > I bet you dont think about it but just as often as those red circles kill you they also save your life. > I cant see your reason for complaining about the warhorn change suggestion though as you will have them on your side just as much as your foe which pretty much shuts down your argument and all of your complaints about how broken it would be. > > I get the feeling you are really tilted about how much you go down in WvW zergging as a frontline fighter. I didnt tell you to play a purely ranged class I said to try a ranged option. EVERY PROFESSION has a ranged option in one way or another. Just because you are front line does not mean you are going to be 100% melee. > > > > > imagin running through a choke with around 50ppl (you maybe even have more ppl, thats why you dare to even dare to push a choke) on the other side and all of their necros just put dmg down and blow into their horn to instantly rip all stab and resistance, that would be a deadstop to anyone who tries to attack, nobody would ever push again, all just sitting in their keeps or ship away, boring gameplay and definately not healthy for that mode > > > > and your "have you tried that and that stuff" sounds so arrogant, its aggravating > > Well yeah its a tactical position. Thats why its called CHOKE POINT because it limits what people can do to push through it. Depending on how strong the enemy zergs defense is and how well they can manage their cooldowns then yes it can put a push to a dead stop. You should probably not try to force your way through and im sorry if it annoys you that you cant do much about it as a melee fighter. You sadly have to make a choice. > You go through it and risk death or you try and wait it out or pull back and try again later. Ideally its on the commanders to make that call that will keep you in place to test the foes defenses, push through them, or end up getting your zerg wiped. > > As i said you are obviously hurt by the playstyle of the current meta and the role most necros take in wvw zergs but thats not a legit reason to hate on proposed changes that are invited to all other parts of the game. Necro is not as oppressive in other areas of the game and wvw is where it excels the most currently. I can assure you the poster of this change did not simply target wvw zergs in mind when they typed it up. But your hate for the idea seems to be targeted specifically from that. > > lol yea keep assuming i go down alot, i dont, mind you i said IF this was a change that was to be implemented it would be bad, and it probably wont anyways because it would be kitten saying that we would have the same thing in our zerg would end up with no benefit for either side is just wrong, and shows that you did t understand anything from what i was trying to say this change would mostly be benefiting for the defending zerg that is getting pushed, because of the shorter range, when we push our necros couldnt hit it because they dont run at the front because of obvious reasons this would lead to nobody ever pushing again or only when in waaaay bigger numbers, which is BORING, not sure why you dont understand this, but just shipping away is the most boring thing ever, the only thing i could guess is that you are one of those types of players that always just sits in their objectives with lots of ac's and your zerg to defend stuff and never attack not to mention that shipping makes many classes useless which is not desireable aswell i never mentioned that id die alot or would run mindlessly into red circles, if i did that i wouldnt think alot about stuff like that, would i? if i just ran into you without thinking i wouldnt be writing wall after wall of text to say how bad this change would be fightig zergs with pushes is alot more demanding tactifs from the commander than just shipping from left to right, not getting surrounded or cut off etc needs alot more thinking, resulting in alot more fun for many ppl stop assuming all melees just want to bash their heads together, thanks, we arent that dumb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killfil.3472 Posted June 17, 2018 Author Share Posted June 17, 2018 So... to come back to main topic.... Should the daze be replaced by a fear..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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