Unable to finish pug raids anymore!!!

[Deaths.9165]

its just seems like u dont pug much. So i will make here some guidince about pugging raids in gw2.

 

Their are key positions in raids u have to man with expirienced ppl. For example VG overheal. U need a solid chrono Tank. U need at least one solid dudu harrier healer. Everything else is mandatory.

 

If the tank gets always teleported the entire run is ruined. If the healer doesnt watch green circles and time his healing good the run is ruined.

 

For the rest part it is just dps. u dont need descent dps. To finish off VG. U can finish VG with just 6 ppl. So u have room for 4 noobs u can carry.

 

It is easy to nummber outthe bad players when u see them getting teleported always. As long as the chrono tank and the healer doing their job good their is no need to be perfect like in WOW.

 

My entire problem is that u dont need ascended gear to be chrono tank and u dont need ascended gear to be dudu healer. And u are always welcome as chrono tank and dudu in raid teams. Now u fake ur li and the entire run gets ruined.

 

The other problem is that ppl really have their 250+ Li and just testing out their new chrono tank toon on a pug team and ruin the entire run. And when they get kicked they get outragouse. PLZ try ur new toons on ur raid guilds!

 

The raids in gw2 are one of the easiest raids in the MMO world. We dont need all that stuff thats decribed long and long. Thats what u are right in.

 

BUT pug raiding meens u dont have any responsibility against the team u join randoms u leave randoms. Theirfore if the run fails one or 2 times u dont get the chance to kick the chrono tank. The entire team disbands. Theirfore it was good to check at least the li and kp. Now u cant even do that. If i am going to check li over api . That wont be a pug team anymore. i could open a friendlist over discord where all the li is alrdy checked. That wouldnt be pugging as well. Pugging means fast teaming up with randoms with lowest time loose and effort. Everything else isnt pug anymore.

[Deaths.9165]

And Raiding is nothing new to Anet. PPl compare it always with wow. we had in GW1 elite mission which were way harder the the raids of gw2. We had the PvP and GvG of Gw1. So everything is not new to Anet. And yeah all the solutions didnt solve the problems but they helped to find a proper team and ease the pain at least. ANets solution was to decrease the difficilty of raids so everyone could have access. But if their is no effort easy raids wont bring it as well.

[Draco.9480]

pugging raids is impossible to me in general regardless li or not

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Deaths.9165" said:

> The other problem is that ppl really have their 250+ Li and just testing out their new chrono tank toon on a pug team and ruin the entire run. And when they get kicked they get outragouse. PLZ try ur new toons on ur raid guilds!

You won't find a solution for that one. If someone genuinely did a ton of raids, got all the kp/li/achieves, but did it always on a dps that took no special roles, and now is trying to play a new class/a role unknown to them... well, you can only find that out by observing their play.

 

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

> @"Deaths.9165" said:

> its just seems like u dont pug much. So i will make here some guidince about pugging raids in gw2.

 

No, I just think your position on how to identify the experienced people you say are required is poorly thought out, and that your own statements about getting "bad" players with high LI counts proves that; as well, experience in other games with vastly more detailed inspection of characters suggests that this, also, will not be any better at sorting out good from bad.

 

TL;DR: I think your idea that LI / gear checks sort good from bad are wrong, but I'm happy to help you identify ways to do them better if you want.

 

> Theirfore it was good to check at least the li and kp. Now u cant even do that.

 

You mentioned two specific problems, the ability to fake LI and gear via chat link generation, and the throttling that prevents players "spamming" those.

 

In the first case, I suggested...

 

> If i am going to check li over api . That wont be a pug team anymore.

 

... the API approach, because it is the only existing mechanism to verify LI (and gear) that cannot be faked by the person trying to join your group. If that means you consider it impossible to run a pug, and not being able to trust the LI stacks in chat, then, yeah, I guess you are stuck. Neither of the two possible options for checking LI suit you, so ... *shrug* what else you gonna do?

 

The second case, throttling is per person, so linking LI and gear shouldn't end up with throttling unless you are asking for them to link them multiple times, or for more than six total stacks as proof.

 

> Pugging means fast teaming up with randoms with lowest time loose and effort. Everything else isnt pug anymore.

 

Only, that isn't what it means to you: you **also** expect it to have experienced and/or competent players, otherwise you wouldn't be concerned about LI, just about how fast the group forms, yeah?

 

Anyway, point is: regardless of what I think about your choice to check LI, you have two choices:

 

* You can use the easy to fake in-game chat, and people can fake their stacks.

* You can use an out-of-game API based check, and people can't fake their stacks.

 

Pick one.

[Malediktus.9250]

https://killproof.me/

 

maybe use this

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

> Let me tell you a secret: There is no reliable skill-indicator, especially since you can buy LI/KPs/titles. There are people with 50 LI or less that can perfectly pull their weight. There are people with legendary armor which can be a real catastrophe.

>

> Using the LFG is always a lottery. Either you're lucky or you're not. It's just that simple. I also command raids and from time to time, yes, it's really annoying. But that's how it is. Either you cultivate a more laid-back mindset and just get done with stuff or... well... not.

 

It's not just luck. Sure, there's always that, but since I recently resumed pugging, my experiences have been way too consistent to be just luck. It is rare to find a group that's so bad it can't finish the wing.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

Easy solution. Don't ask for kill proof T_T.

 

If you don't want to deal with failure, get a static.

 

If you're that damn deadset on requiring some kill proof beyond the achievement that says "yes I killed the boss at least once", then just tell them to install sharex, snapshot the LI and link the picture with their character in it. A better solution than complaining about it on the forums.

 

But there's really no point in requiring it to begin with.

 

Honestly. This is the first time I've heard anyone blame a raid commander.

[SlippyCheeze.5483]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> https://killproof.me/

 

Wonderful! Someone has already built it. That is very nice. Thank you for linking it.

[Magnus Godrik.5841]

KP, LI pinging this or that doesnt mean anything. Commanders who want smooth runs should simply know how to weed out the bad. In a game where you can buy raids and has been out for so long that even the worse of the worse can have legendary armor. Simple things like getting ported, not throwing bombs right, not knowing how to do this or that should be obvious tells that this is going to be bad. Commanders can be the just as bad if not worse as well, so you should take it upon yourself to leave. I have no static and pugged raids from the start and I still manage to finish them in a timely manner.

[Zunki.3916]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> https://killproof.me/

>

> maybe use this

 

Can we make it show the actual killproofs of bosses (through achievments) and even the number of the boss specific guild unlock thingies (inventory)?

Or is this built in and I can't see it?

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

What a PUGmander _needs_ is some way of determining which party members can pull their own weight. There is nothing in the game that can prove that. The amount of LI collected used to be a "not bad" proxy because not that many people could build up that much LI. However, these days, it's not that hard to have found ways to be carried often enough to have KP (where, for this discussion, 'carried' is simply the other side of the coin of 'pull their own weight').

 

People have been using KP since the first pick up game in history (I believe it was skins versus shirts in Troy a few 1000 years ago). It's never "proved" anything about ability, only about who has learned how to provide KP.

 

If PUGmanders still want to use LI, despite evidence that it's ineffective, there are Discord bots that can figure it out from the GW2 API. PUGmanders can simply ignore those who don't wish to authenticate a key as insufficiently motivated, which is the point of using LI anyhow.

 

But far better is to actually check for competence in some more meaningful way. Such as asking a question about what they've done in previous encounters. It takes a tad longer for the commander and for the recruit, but given that the goal is to avoid wipes and speed up the run, that seems like a worthwhile investment.

[Malediktus.9250]

> @"Zunki.3916" said:

> > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > https://killproof.me/

> >

> > maybe use this

>

> Can we make it show the actual killproofs of bosses (through achievments) and even the number of the boss specific guild unlock thingies (inventory)?

> Or is this built in and I can't see it?

 

Does not seem to be supported. But you could ask the dev to implement it

[LordMorgul.9845]

from the other side people can never finish or do a training becouse of the lack of them or like it appened to me, some elite join in squad and tell comm to give him a liut, after he kicked people just before the last boss becouse they tell are repassing the mech to be sure for wat need to do (he joined for the last boss only and we are in 9/10 squad waiting and chatting), so this is why people post fake li, they want to raid or introduced to it but there is not way to do becouse of elite like this one so they obliuvsly need to find a way to do... also i know there is not a real training way, just pp that mentor or explain to others, but if we get inside this called training is not far to get kikked for repassing mechs, so this why we need some tier or learing course in the game, so no fake li animore for elite and enjoinable content for peasants; i don't tink anet what that actual way in the game, i buy the game for all content and to not get pissed of becouse of by this people becouse me and other like me not are still good enought or getted pissed off in gw2 dark souls, but to play nice and fun with people, those that is appening in game right now is not nice and is not fun, also another tink anet u have minded that pp get "meta" or u minded pp can play all content in the way they want togheter? becouse i don't think we are in this road anymore, there is some sort of racism for some classes becouse they are not so "meta" and this in raid like in other part of the game like www or pvp (www is all scourge now -.- worst www ever), i remember fractal got the same problem afte the begins so this is why we got tiers, hope we soon see similar for raid.

[maxwelgm.4315]

This thread has come a long way for something with such simple solutions. You can demand that people perform or you start kicking them (completely OK if you let this clear from the start and politely send them a "sorry it's not working with us" when dismissing them), and identifying this can be as simple as kicking people as soon as they fail mechanics more than twice or any other criteria you want to establish personally.

 

Another option is to yes, stop pugging if it's making you angry! If you're decent enough to command surely you have a static you can clear encounters with? If you can't stand failure, pugging is not for you. Pug groups might not agree on strategy or not want to clear bosses the same way even if they are all capable of doing things if the rest of the team thought exactly like them. It is people you don't know and don't know their playstyle and you have to keep that in mind. I'd even go as far as saying that it is less detrimental to the pug community that angry rearblasted commanders like you leave rather than give pugs the bad rep of being toxicity homeland. You were likely already elitist when you started (I did not ever look up a guide to complete Fractal CMs with no wipes, why would I do so for raids, which by they way I haven't in order to complete what I have so far? You surely have an answer for this and if your topic is any indication it will be along the lines of "I made the effort and now everyone should if they want in my club") , just be honest about it and don't help people. I'm not even being harsh here, it would just solve your problem of being sad/angry about it and solve people's problem of being called out by you.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @"Deaths.9165" said:

> Hey all i am one of the pug commanders for raids on Europe. The last patch brought the limitation for li spam and armor spam. Their was alrdy a program with wich u could spam Li even when u didnt own it. Nowadays everyone spams 100+ Li and nearly all pug raids i join or lead are fails.

> I know me included alot of pug commanders who carryed 1 or 2 noobs. But now this is impossible cause everyone is a noob even when he can spam 50+ Li.

>

> Now a question to all the players who were against elitism. Is it this what u wanted. I refuse to lead pug Raids now. ANd i know alot of Pug commanders who refuse to lead pugs. Cause it is impossible anymore to finish a raid. I refuse to do training runs anymore. I refuse to carry noobs anymore. And alot of Pug commanders are like minded.

>

> Cause if the run fails it is the fault of the commander and not of the pug group. And ppl call the commander noob.

>

> When i started with raids i had alot of help when i was honest to me myself and my li. Gw2 raid community was always nice if u were honest. Cause u could implement a non liar to ur squad and carry him. ANd now i see 250 Li ppl who cant even dodge teleport of VG. Sry this is not going to work.

>

> GL

 

I've been saying it for a long time -> LI is not an accurate gauge of player experience/skill/aptitude and it never will be.

 

The only accurate gauge is to actually play with other players, and take notes on them, or to receive recommendations for PUGs from other trusted players.